Which Linden: Created page with '* [11:00] ATechwolf Foxclaw: Hi which * [11:00] Which Linden: hey there! * [11:00] ATechwolf Foxclaw...'

2009-08-06T19:01:15Z

Created page with '* [11:00] ATechwolf Foxclaw: Hi which * [11:00] Which Linden: hey there! * [11:00] ATechwolf Foxclaw...'

New page

* [11:00] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: Hi which
* [11:00] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: hey there!
* [11:00] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: Hmm...not many here today
* [11:00] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: the loading screen image should totally become the Snowglobe app icon
* [11:01] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: lol
* [11:01] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: it is like way cool
* [11:02] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: They need to come up wiht a few new login screens. The ones they got are poor and low rez.
* [11:03] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: for snowglobe, or in general?
* [11:03] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: cause, I was recently observing how the loading screens are pretty damn decent for the mainline viewers
* [11:04] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: I'm glad someone's paying attention to that aspect of the user experience
* [11:04] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: The login screen is just the client loading up a web page. Its just snowglobe I think points in a different web page.
* [11:04] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: yeah
* [11:04] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: [http://secondlife.com/app/login/] is the "normal" one
* [11:04] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: better created ones are needed.
* [11:04] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: Perhaps a few around Zindra? lol
* [11:05] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: with little censor bars all over everything :-)
* [11:05] [[User:Shockwave Plasma|Shockwave Plasma]]: and a note that says Here be Dragons
* [11:05] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: lol
* [11:05] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: Some Linden needs to sneak that one in
* [11:06] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: Heck, if manament wants to make a few dollors, allow creative ads there. It would be better. ;-)
* [11:07] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Alopha :-)
* [11:07] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: And Aloha too :-)
* [11:07] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: hi there morgaine, missed you last week
* [11:07] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: nice hat
* [11:07] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Slept through last week, hehe. And nearly missed it again :-(
* [11:08] [[User:Shockwave Plasma|Shockwave Plasma]]: I thinght it was an alternative to Asprin
* [11:08] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: lol
* [11:08] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Keeps the rain off
* [11:08] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: anyone been following the discussions on eventletdev?
* [11:09] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: been pretty active lately
* [11:09] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: Can't see the hat. Text only here.
* [11:09] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: ATech's sitting on the tiny seat, how uncivilized :-(
* [11:10] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Woot!
* [11:10] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: text only SL client?
* [11:10] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: yes. Radegast.
* [11:10] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Thanks ATech :-))
* [11:10] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: I think "HD - Classic Balck Leather Couth" was the largert one?
* [11:11] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: hah, so you have to specify where to sit based on names?
* [11:11] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: Wich, very handy when you dn't want to waste bandwith with textures.
* [11:11] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: yeah, I imagine, my laptop's getting pretty hot right now
* [11:12] [[User:Shockwave Plasma|Shockwave Plasma]]: I was using sleek for a while, until it made my inventory read only Grrrr
* [11:12] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Most people put their coffee mug on the table :P
* [11:13] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Hi Dahlia :-)
* [11:13] [[User:Dahlia Trimble|Dahlia Trimble]]: hi :)
* [11:14] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: good day!
* [11:14] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: do we want to talk about eventlet today, or perhaps some other topic??
* [11:14] [[User:Dahlia Trimble|Dahlia Trimble]]: is eventlet underclued
* [11:15] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Are there any timings available for eventlet?
* [11:15] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: What or who is eventlet?
* [11:15] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: [http://eventlet.net]
* [11:16] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: timings? what do you mean?
* [11:16] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Speed and overhead benchmarks / tests / measurements
* [11:17] [[User:Hermit Barber|Hermit Barber]]: Hi Dahlia.
* [11:17] [[User:Dahlia Trimble|Dahlia Trimble]]: so now that I've trained myself to think event-driven, I dont have to?
* [11:17] [[User:Dahlia Trimble|Dahlia Trimble]]: Hi Hermit :)
* [11:17] [[User:Mealea Ying|Mealea Ying]]: it says here its quick.... and BlooKitty, you are short so dont worry about overhead
* [11:17] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: lol
* [11:17] [[User:Dahlia Trimble|Dahlia Trimble]]: lol
* [11:18] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Hiya Hermie :-)
* [11:18] [[User:Mealea Ying|Mealea Ying]]: Hya Hermit!
* [11:18] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: Morgaine: I welcome your input about how to develop such benchmarks, and what to compare them to -- I'd be interested in setting up continuous builds that ran them every time there was a change and bitched about regressions
* [11:18] [[User:Hermit Barber|Hermit Barber]]: Hi everyone else rezzing slowly and not showing on the snowglobe minimap until rezzed.
* [11:18] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Which: oh, that's a good idea.
* [11:19] [[User:Mealea Ying|Mealea Ying]]: BlooKitty, remember the FPS problem we had here? you should try it with shadows on
* [11:19] [[User:Dahlia Trimble|Dahlia Trimble]]: I think the minimap gets it's avatar info from a different message than normal avies
* [11:19] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Uh oh, bad?
* [11:19] [[User:Mealea Ying|Mealea Ying]]: yah I can make a pot of coffee between frames
* [11:20] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: do shadows work on the mac yet?
* [11:20] [[User:Mealea Ying|Mealea Ying]]: rollerskating is out of the question
* [11:21] [[User:Mealea Ying|Mealea Ying]]: uhoh
* [11:21] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Which: well Enus is setting up all manner of tests using PyOGP, and is very interested in regression testing. Perhaps once there's a framework into which we can slot tests, we could add some for eventlet.
* [11:22] [[User:Dahlia Trimble|Dahlia Trimble]]: what is LL using eventlet for?
* [11:22] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: I think the standard in the python world for continuous builds is buildbot
* [11:22] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: We use it for a bunch of things; server code, misc scripts, PyOGP uses it
* [11:23] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: "networky things" encapsulates it best
* [11:24] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Not in the sim though, since that's C++. What kind of networky areas?
* [11:24] [[User:Dahlia Trimble|Dahlia Trimble]]: so eventlet rather than twisted?
* [11:24] [[User:Dahlia Trimble|Dahlia Trimble]]: or with it?
* [11:24] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: no twisted, we have some folks here who have used twisted in the past, but they're pretty happy with not having to use it again
* [11:24] [[User:Dahlia Trimble|Dahlia Trimble]]: lol
* [11:24] [[User:Elric Ember|Elric Ember]]: This may be of interest: [http://redsolo.blogspot.com/2007/11/hudson-embraces-python.html]
* [11:25] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: networky stuff like ; proxying requests to the proper inventory host
* [11:25] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: god shouting to the entire grid
* [11:25] [[User:Elric Ember|Elric Ember]]: One CI server to rule them all
* [11:25] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Hehe
* [11:25] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: It's official then. God uses eventlet.
* [11:25] [[User:Elric Ember|Elric Ember]]: Can simplify maintenance aspects
* [11:25] [[User:Dahlia Trimble|Dahlia Trimble]]: so a coroutine is like a thread?
* [11:26] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: yes, another term for coroutines is "green threads"
* [11:26] [[User:Dahlia Trimble|Dahlia Trimble]]: oh ok
* [11:26] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: it is like a thread but it doesn't involve any preemption, so you don't have to mess around with locks and all the other things that make threads horrible
* [11:26] [[User:Mealea Ying|Mealea Ying]]: awwww BlooooKitty
* [11:27] [[User:Elric Ember|Elric Ember]]: Does python implement coroutines as threads or within them?
* [11:27] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Mealea: that would be me ;-)
* [11:27] [[User:Mealea Ying|Mealea Ying]]: yep!
* [11:28] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: Python itself has no coroutine implementation; eventlet uses the greenlet library, or, runs on stackless
* [11:28] [[User:Elric Ember|Elric Ember]]: ah ok
* [11:28] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: greenlets are pretty orthogonal to threads
* [11:28] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: it is not advisable to mess around with threads and coroutines together too much because of risk of head asplode :-)
* [11:29] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: python threads suck anyway
* [11:29] [[User:Elric Ember|Elric Ember]]: : D I bet
* [11:30] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: do any of you have any "networky" applications?
* [11:30] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: networky?
* [11:30] [[User:Dahlia Trimble|Dahlia Trimble]]: a few, but I'm no expert
* [11:30] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Heh, all languages suck in that area, and are desperately trying to catch up with Erlang. And failing miserably at it. :P
* [11:30] [[User:Dahlia Trimble|Dahlia Trimble]]: well maybe not "Networky", but networky
* [11:31] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: my english parser is not up to task today lol
* [11:31] [[User:Shockwave Plasma|Shockwave Plasma]]: couldn't progarm her way out of a paper bag, even with a handful of Contructers
* [11:32] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: what does it mean? "networky app"
* [11:32] [[User:Dahlia Trimble's|Dahlia Trimble's]]: "select()" manual page has tattered corners
* [11:32] [[User:Elric Ember|Elric Ember]]: Latif: chatty or talks alot
* [11:33] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: i think libomv counts then lol
* [11:33] [[User:Dahlia Trimble|Dahlia Trimble]]: libomv would probably qualify lol
* [11:33] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: hahaha
* [11:33] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: on Python threads: [http://www.dabeaz.com/python/GIL.pdf]
* [11:33] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: definitely
* [11:33] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: yeah, we're pretty talky alright :P
* [11:33] [[User:Dahlia Trimble|Dahlia Trimble]]: or try opensim ;)
* [11:33] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: uhm, that too
* [11:33] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: so pyogp is kind of the python equivalent of libomv; and it uses eventlet
* [11:34] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: it'd be lovely if we could get coroutine-based networking into the C++ code; I think there were some aborted attempts a few years ago
* [11:35] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: dahlia, btw. i rewrote the baker, have a look when you get time... i kept it managed image, didn't go system.drawing route as you suggested
* [11:35] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: Which, c# event handling is perfect for those sorts of things, have you every played with mono?
* [11:35] [[User:Dahlia Trimble|Dahlia Trimble]]: kk
* [11:36] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: I've not used C# at all, Latif
* [11:36] [[User:Elric Ember|Elric Ember]]: Someone might've written a C++ implementation as part of their thesis. The IEEE archives might have something
* [11:36] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: what's so cool about the event handling?
* [11:37] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: Elric: there's definitely C++ coroutine libraries out there
* [11:37] [[User:Dahlia Trimble|Dahlia Trimble]]: inline delegates
* [11:37] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: enus was able to connect 300 bots to the grid using libomv from a single laptop
* [11:37] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: it performs well
* [11:37] [[User:Dahlia Trimble|Dahlia Trimble]]: inline delegates are pretty simple to work with
* [11:38] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: hah, as Morgaine would say, where are the benchmarks??? :-P
* [11:38] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: which, is simply beutiful :)
* [11:38] [[User:Dahlia Trimble|Dahlia Trimble]]: libomv uses them a lot
* [11:38] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: hm, the thing about evnetlet is you don't need delegates at all; you just write code as if it were blocking
* [11:38] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: If Radegast get multi-account support, I may use that to see how many alts I can log in at once. hehe
* [11:38] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: Which, I would not want that
* [11:38] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: inline delegates are certainly better, but it's still "callback hell"
* [11:38] [[User:Dahlia Trimble|Dahlia Trimble]]: Opensim uses packet pools and threadpools, kinda painful but seems to handle a lot of traffic
* [11:39] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: why callback hell?
* [11:39] [[User:Dahlia Trimble|Dahlia Trimble]]: its an inline callback, kind of acts as a blocking request
* [11:40] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: maybe I'm not understanding inline dllegates
* [11:40] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: in c# I could in any class/control, whereever put GridClient.OnNetworkConnect += MyFunc; then myFunc(blah blah) { Log("I am now connected") }
* [11:40] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: so myfunc is an inline delegate?
* [11:40] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: no its not in this case
* [11:40] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: oh, so how would that be written with inline d;legates?
* [11:40] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: but... i can have 20 functions subscribe to this event
* [11:41] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: man I cannot seem to spell that word delegates
* [11:41] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: GridClient.OnNetworkConnect = delegate() { Log("I am connected"); }
* [11:41] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: +=
* [11:41] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: ha, right, ok, so it's an anonymous function basically, right?
* [11:41] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: so you can add as many delegates as you want
* [11:42] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: for an event
* [11:42] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: yes, but it handles adding many of them automagically
* [11:42] [[User:Dahlia Trimble|Dahlia Trimble]]: theres another form which waits on an inline event
* [11:42] [[User:Elric Ember|Elric Ember]]: Which: That link is a great read. Thank you
* [11:42] [[User:Dahlia Trimble|Dahlia Trimble]]: cant remember the syntax offhand
* [11:43] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: so the way you'd write this using coroutine based networking is GridClient.connect(); Log("I am connected");
* [11:43] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: if you want a bunch of callbacks (which is, btw, a very uncommon use case in my experience), just do a for loop
* [11:43] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: for callback in callbacks { callback() }
* [11:44] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: the common use case is way shorter, and the multi-callback use case is clearer, too
* [11:44] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: if you are making a gui app., its quite common to have many many delegates invoked per single event
* [11:44] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: yeah, GUI programming is pretty different than network programming
* [11:44] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: i want to disable buttons, change caption text, close logs, etc etc when i get disconnected from the grid for istance
* [11:45] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: GUI programming makes more sense when written event-driven
* [11:45] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: but networking is not thus
* [11:45] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: network does too, especially for SL protocol
* [11:45] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: a common use case is "make one http request, then, based on the results, make one or two more"
* [11:46] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: GridClient.Self.OnImReceived += do stuff
* [11:46] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: i think we're approaching this from different sides
* [11:46] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: definitely the GUI code that responds to events should be callback-based where appropriate
* [11:46] [[User:Dahlia Trimble|Dahlia Trimble]]: RequestLogout(); if (!logoutEvent.WaitOne(Client.Settings.LOGOUT_TIMEOUT, false)) Shutdown(DisconnectType.NetworkTimeout);
* [11:47] [[User:Dahlia Trimble|Dahlia Trimble]]: theres an example
* [11:47] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: All a bit pathetic compared to Erlang processes, where you can happily run millions in parallel if you have the memory. That's one area in which all other languages are wannabes.
* [11:47] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: erlang is written in erlang then i suppose, not is some other pathet wannabe language as C?
* [11:47] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: but it's much easier to write stuff as "result1 = httprequest(url); if result1.foo: httprequest(url2) else: httprequest(url3); httprequest(url4)
* [11:48] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: with callbacks the above snippet would be...ugh, more than I want to type
* [11:48] [[User:Dahlia Trimble|Dahlia Trimble]]: lol
* [11:48] [[User:Dahlia Trimble|Dahlia Trimble]]: it all pays the rent I guess ;)
* [11:48] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: heh :-)
* [11:49] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: inline delegates are better, though, for sure, because they're at least closures
* [11:49] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: in C++ you have to pack all your state up into a struct and stick it in the callback object
* [11:49] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: well writting event driven code seems strange at first but i think its perfect for implementing protocols like SL protocol
* [11:50] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: there are hundreds of different things that can happen
* [11:50] [[User:Dahlia Trimble|Dahlia Trimble]]: SL™ protocol is all event driven anyway
* [11:50] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: yes
* [11:50] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: I think the SL protocol was originally developed under the constraints of C++, now that we're moving to capabilities it will start looking less and less event-driven
* [11:51] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: event queue is also perfect for implemeting it firing off events
* [11:51] [[User:Dahlia Trimble|Dahlia Trimble]]: gotta run... tc all :)
* [11:51] [[User:Elric Ember|Elric Ember]]: tc
* [11:52] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Which: did your message queueing evaluation go beyond that document you showed us? Any final conclusions?
* [11:52] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: libomv is basically a network layer that gets and decodes udp and caps messages, and fires off events that your app them might want to decide to handle
* [11:52] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Cyu Dahlia
* [11:52] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: such us OnInstantMessageReceived or on OnLoggedIn
* [11:52] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: Morgaine: well we've ben trying to come up with architectures that get around the limitations of the various packages, but in general, no, no progress
* [11:52] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: nods
* [11:53] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: Latif: yeah, certainly client libs that use liomv should be event-driven, but libomv itself might be cleaner and easier to maintain if it were written using coroutine-based networking
* [11:54] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: it could... we implement it using c# ThreadPools for packet capturing, decoding, which is more in line how you would implement it in c/c++
* [11:55] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: oh yeah, I bet C# threads are decent for that sort of thing
* [11:56] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: yes, and they are easy to program compared to say pthreads... the runtime takes care of assiging them to different processors, etc, which is also configurable
* [11:57] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: yeah, the only advantage coroutines have over well-implemented language threads is that they are somewhat faster
* [11:57] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: (if well-implemented themselves)
* [11:58] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: yes, thread startup/teardown does have significat cost
* [11:59] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: I guess we agree! :-)
* [11:59] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: Time for me to head for lunch.
* [11:59] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: Thanks for your time and thoughts
* [11:59] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: hehe, take care Which
* [11:59] [[User:Elric Ember|Elric Ember]]: For performance, logging when context switches or GIL contentions occur could help
* [11:59] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Cya Which
* [11:59] [[User:Elric Ember|Elric Ember]]: tc
* [11:59] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: Have a wonderful day!

User:Which Linden/Office Hours/2009 Aug 6 - Revision history

Which Linden: Created page with '* [11:00] ATechwolf Foxclaw: Hi which * [11:00] Which Linden: hey there! * [11:00] ATechwolf Foxclaw...'