Which Linden: Created page with '* [11:00] Morgaine Dinova: Hi peeps * [11:00] Which Linden: what is up my rabbits * [11:00] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinov...'

2009-10-01T19:15:32Z

Created page with '* [11:00] Morgaine Dinova: Hi peeps * [11:00] Which Linden: what is up my rabbits * [11:00] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinov...'

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* [11:00] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Hi peeps
* [11:00] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: what is up my rabbits
* [11:00] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Hiya Which!
* [11:00] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: hello
* [11:00] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: ok that was a pretty lame pun off of "peeps" there
* [11:00] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: let's pretend that didn't happen
* [11:00] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: hehe
* [11:01] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: LOL, so bad I still haven't figured it out :P
* [11:01] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: ha ha, how are y'all?
* [11:01] [[User:Enkidu Linden|Enkidu Linden]]: hi guys
* [11:01] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Fine tnx, you?
* [11:01] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: hey Enkidu
* [11:01] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Hi Enkidu! New Linden?
* [11:01] [[User:Enkidu Linden|Enkidu Linden]]: newish!
* [11:02] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: heh I think he's almost a year old!
* [11:02] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Oh, nearly a year old, hehe. Well nice to see you in Which's OH :-)
* [11:02] [[User:Enkidu Linden|Enkidu Linden]]: 11 months on saturday
* [11:02] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: what do you at the lab enkidu?
* [11:02] [[User:Enkidu Linden|Enkidu Linden]]: thanks! i'll be judging for style
* [11:03] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: what on earth is up with your av? Do I need some sculptie textures downloaded?
* [11:03] [[User:Twisted Laws|Twisted Laws]]: ^^ i have no style :p
* [11:03] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: I don't do "form", just "function" :-)
* [11:03] [[User:Enkidu Linden|Enkidu Linden]]: i do lots of webby stuff
* [11:03] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: ah i see
* [11:03] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Ew
* [11:03] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Commiserations ^_^
* [11:04] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: spent 10 years doing webby stuff lol
* [11:04] [[User:Phantom Ninetails|Phantom Ninetails]]: Thought those sculpts would never load
* [11:05] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: heh there we go
* [11:05] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: so...yeah, did you all want to talk webby stuff?
* [11:05] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: you may recall that last week we talked about the transactions history page
* [11:05] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: So annoying having to fetch this grass every week. We're here regularly, clearly the 1GB cache is inadequate or non-functional.
* [11:06] [[User:Elbereth Witte|Elbereth Witte]]: or he updaqtes the grass texture every week to psych you out :-)
* [11:06] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: I change one pixel each time :-)
* [11:06] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: haha
* [11:06] [[User:Phantom Ninetails|Phantom Ninetails]]: lol
* [11:07] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: randomizes the UUIDs from a pool of identifical textures
* [11:07] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: I sometimes wonder if the cache never gets any love because Lindens have high-bandwidth access to the grid, so they don't see the non-working cache as a problem.
* [11:07] [[User:Elbereth Witte|Elbereth Witte]]: bandwidth does have value, wether they say so or not, and they mostly likely know that
* [11:07] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: technically the QA team does stuff through DSL
* [11:08] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: and also don't forget we have offices all over the world
* [11:08] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: I would dedicate a 1TB drive to the cache .... if it let me.
* [11:08] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: yeah and M's been in Amsterdam on "business" ;)
* [11:09] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: heh heh
* [11:09] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: haha
* [11:09] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: ain't no business like show business!
* [11:09] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: especially in amsterdam ;)
* [11:09] [[User:Phantom Ninetails|Phantom Ninetails]]: [http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLSquid_Proxy]
* [11:09] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Anyway, transactions ...
* [11:09] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: yeah, so, some conversation continues on WEB-1321
* [11:09] [[User:JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-1321|JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-1321]]:
* [#WEB-1321] [[User:Transaction History,|Transaction History,]]: the transaction number should remain a sequential number, not a UID
* [11:10] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: loves that jirahelper
* [11:10] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: yeah, and sql sequences ;)
* [11:10] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: I'm still assuming that the major problem with uuids is that they are too long
* [11:10] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: and that simply chopping off the trunk will suffice to improve the situation
* [11:11] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: resedents often need to compare transaction ids
* [11:11] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: there will be a slight chance of collision with just a prefix, but it's really low
* [11:11] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: using uuid for this purpose is suboptimal
* [11:12] [[User:Enkidu Linden|Enkidu Linden]]: why is that, latif?
* [11:12] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: I think the Jira opener merely wants UUIDs hidden. Technically, you can't replace UUIDs with an incrementing count without adding a Single Point of Failure and a barrier to scalability.
* [11:12] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: what happens if you run a UUID through MD5?
* [11:12] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: transaction IDs are not something hidden, something residents don't see
* [11:12] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: they are used in everyday workflow
* [11:12] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: using uuids is not very user friendly
* [11:13] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: was thinking more in terms of compression possibilities, though MD5 probably wouldn't compress
* [11:13] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: i understand the technical difficultyy you might have getting numerical IDs
* [11:13] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: saijanai: this is the md5 of a uuid: "30dde8348ce93f890ea863847920eee0"
* [11:13] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: but the problem has been solved gazillion times in applications that use user exposed transaction ids
* [11:13] [[User:Elbereth Witte|Elbereth Witte]]: a cryptographic hash that compresses well is a failed hash IMO
* [11:14] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: SQL construsct of sequence has been invented for this purpose specificially
* [11:14] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: It doesn't matter to code whether a transaction identifier is user-friendly or not. User-friendliness should never compromise functionality. If UUIDs are not user-friendly, just hide them behind a local view or something.
* [11:14] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Elbereth++
* [11:14] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: using hashes is also not good
* [11:15] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: so just as a point of reference, here is a paypal transaction id: 7KY79262PN385345U
* [11:15] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: i need to be able to go to which and complain about system stealing 150k from my accouint and give him transaction number
* [11:15] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: it looks like paypal is using base 36
* [11:15] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: This is a case of what's good for the function being bad for manual use and visbility. So keep them separate.
* [11:15] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: if i was hashed he would not be able to know which uuid was it
* [11:16] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: i deal daily with customers sending me transaction details
* [11:17] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: i know how an ordinary resident reacts when he sees that now its an uuid
* [11:17] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: the reaction is WTF ;)
* [11:17] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: ok but any change will elicit that reaction
* [11:17] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: oh well ;)
* [11:17] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: we need concrete reasons beyond "change is bad"
* [11:17] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: :-)
* [11:18] [[User:Elbereth Witte|Elbereth Witte]]: good chang isn't all that bad
* [11:18] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: i said using uuids was suboptimal, not a deal breaker
* [11:19] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: so yeah it looks like paypal is using 88-bit transaction ids, that's a little shorter than 128 bits, and the base-36 compresses its length
* [11:19] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: maybe we should consider base-36 for our ids
* [11:19] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: would make it annoying internally though
* [11:19] [[User:Enkidu Linden|Enkidu Linden]]: i'm curious, what is it about a numeric id that is intrinsically better than something in hex?
* [11:19] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: part of the other win of converting to uuids is that those are what we use internally too
* [11:20] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: Enkidu, nothing for me, but i am a software engineeer
* [11:20] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: ;)
* [11:21] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: ha ha ha, this seems like a case of the customer not knowing what they want
* [11:21] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: so just as an example I converted a uuid to base36
* [11:21] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: uuid: 22d4dcdbaebb47fab925a871cc75ee48 base36: 228hqxz4jcask4cck0o8ggw0k
* [11:21] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: Which, if you went with i system that does not use sequences, bite the bullet and stick with UUIDs, it would just make it event workse trying to "fix" it with base36, hashes or whatever
* [11:22] [[User:Twisted Laws|Twisted Laws]]: i think some people think uuid's are weak because they hear all the time that theres no reason to hide uuid's of avatars, etc... this would make them think transactions may also be more open then they'd like (only in their minds, obviously)
* [11:22] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: I think I agree, Latif
* [11:22] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: so... the other smart thing that Paypal does, is they deemphasize the transaction id
* [11:22] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: it's in small text and you have to know what you're looking for to find it
* [11:22] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: the emphasized data is: date/time, other party, amount, type
* [11:23] [[User:Ardy Lay|Ardy Lay]]: Some people see hexadecimal and think they have found the key to the city.
* [11:23] [[User:Enkidu Linden|Enkidu Linden]]: that's a very interesting observation, twisted
* [11:23] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: so the clear intent is that the transaction id is only used if these other fields are not adequate
* [11:24] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: yeah I agree -- that is interesting
* [11:24] [[User:Enkidu Linden|Enkidu Linden]]: especially considering sequential integers are actually predictable
* [11:24] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: uh.....I guess if we had an API that allowed you to get any person's transaction by id, we'd have an issue (but we don't)
* [11:25] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: heh also good point enkidu
* [11:26] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: of course the real solution would be to make transactions more reliable so i and my customers don't need to compare transaction IDs daily ;)
* [11:26] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: lol
* [11:26] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: true dat
* [11:28] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: yeah...but that's a big problem that may require a refactoring to solve
* [11:28] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: we gotta save the central database first :-)
* [11:28] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: two main problems with in-world commerce related to transactions
* [11:29] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: Right click -> pay object is no guaratnee that object's money() event will fire
* [11:29] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: and secodn, there is no way to tell if inventory offer was successful or not
* [11:30] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: object -> agent inventory offer that is
* [11:30] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: yes, definitely agreed that that situation is complete crap
* [11:31] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: though the money() event one is somewhat more challenging to solve
* [11:31] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: so daily i have "i haved payed your vendor but did not receive the produce" kind of situation
* [11:31] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: product*
* [11:31] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: if your product is produce.... :-)
* [11:31] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: hehe
* [11:31] [[User:Elbereth Witte|Elbereth Witte]]: I'm surprised to hear money() is harder than an inventroy give feedback thingy
* [11:32] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: griefers sure liek this place lol
* [11:32] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: oh hey poppy, didn't see ya till now
* [11:32] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: poppy probably brought the greifers with him
* [11:33] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: hehe
* [11:33] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Hiya Poppy :-)
* [11:33] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: he's away
* [11:33] [[User:Twisted Laws|Twisted Laws]]: i like the base 36 encoding of the uuid, myself
* [11:34] [[User:Phantom Ninetails|Phantom Ninetails]]: They look pretty similar
* [11:34] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: Enkidu: actually you're right to be skeptical, I don't really know what goes into either and am just guessing
* [11:35] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: Yeah, I think the base36 is slightly better, but not enough better that it's worth the delta between what we use internally
* [11:35] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: actually internally for support purposes we don't use transactions ids at all
* [11:35] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: the UI doesn't even show 'em
* [11:35] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: heh
* [11:36] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: how do you deal with a situation that happen to be that transaction took 150k out of an account just because it felt like it? ;)
* [11:36] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: we use date/time and amount
* [11:37] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: but amount can be fsced up as you know
* [11:37] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: it is rare that there are multiple transactions in a second
* [11:37] [[User:Enkidu Linden|Enkidu Linden]]: heh, i forget what i was skeptical about
* [11:37] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Just give peeps a front end to transaction Ids based on time, disambiguating identical times with a suffix, plus a link to the actual UUID, and job done. They'll be happy.
* [11:37] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: Latif: well actually the amount is always correct; it is the end balances that are sent to the viewer which is sometimes incorrect
* [11:38] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: and in the transaction history
* [11:38] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: Morgaine: I like that idea
* [11:38] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: Latif: yeah, and in the history; but end balance only
* [11:38] [[User:Enkidu Linden|Enkidu Linden]]: i've been thinking about transaction web search too
* [11:38] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: It avoids the non-scalable trap of monotonic counters.
* [11:38] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: yup, and then there's no big scary id unless you go looking for it
* [11:39] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: eh
* [11:39] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: that would be worst of all solutions, to me
* [11:40] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: orly? why's that?
* [11:41] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: i need to know some unique transaction id, date time is not good enough
* [11:41] [[User:Enkidu Linden|Enkidu Linden]]: what if you could search on any of the transaction details?
* [11:42] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: we have cases where customer pays once, and system charges them twice, i need to see those two transactions that occur within few ms of one another
* [11:42] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: I agree we should not nuke the id altogether, but making it subsidiary to the other details seems reasonable to me
* [11:42] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: eh
* [11:42] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Latif: you would still get the UUID by dereferencing the nice friendly identifier
* [11:42] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: so i.e. they'd have the same time but they'd have two different suffixes
* [11:42] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Yep
* [11:43] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: you know that you can have two identitac transactiosn at almost the sime time, second one being a system error, right?
* [11:43] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: yup
* [11:43] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: so, time + unique
* [11:43] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: unique disambiguates if time is the same
* [11:43] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: i tell you from my personal experience, and i deal with this daily
* [11:43] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: sounds like a really bad idea to me
* [11:43] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: 20091001.<time-order>.<disambiguating-suffix>
* [11:44] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: yeah why make it simple when you can obfuscate it to hell
* [11:44] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Latif: if you think it's bad, then say why. :-)
* [11:44] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: We can only deal with technical objections, not with "I don't like it" :-)
* [11:44] [[User:Elbereth Witte|Elbereth Witte]]: the date thing sounds fluffy, I prefer raw debugability, but from the LL supprot millions perspective, sounds okay
* [11:45] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: oh well you guys who never deal with custoemrs seem to have it all under control ;)
* [11:45] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: dang it, we're trying to listen to you, don't get all emo on us!
* [11:45] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Latif: that's still not a technical objection
* [11:45] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: :-)
* [11:46] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: ok maybe a better way to phrase it would be: other than sequence numbers, what would be the ideal way for transactions to be formatted?
* [11:47] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: to handle this customer use case?
* [11:47] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Personally I'm fine with UUIDs, but if people want something friendlier, then this is a way of achieving it, without adding a non-scalable monotonic counter.
* [11:47] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: how would you construst this disambiguation methot? do you really want to make it any slower than it already is.
* [11:47] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: I think the disambiguation method would just be (some subset of) the uuid
* [11:47] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: basically it would be a UI thing more than a technical thing
* [11:48] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: does the system guaranty that the same transaction has the exect same timestamp on both ends?
* [11:49] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Nah, its very simple. When the code retrieves a transaction set, the transactions are sorted into time order, and all those with identical timestamps are given separate suffixes in arbitrary order. Extremely simple, and can't break.
* [11:49] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: currently, yes -- but that is actually a great point, that it may not hold true forever
* [11:49] [[User:Elbereth Witte|Elbereth Witte]]: even when something is going wrong? :-
* [11:49] [[User:Elbereth Witte|Elbereth Witte]]: )
* [11:49] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: It doesn't even break when you have a UUID clash, haha
* [11:49] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: you are adding a level of complexit in ensuring that obfuscated id is same for both me and my customer
* [11:50] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: Morgaine: agh actually new identifiers, while simple algoorithmically, are not ideal for database-y reasons
* [11:50] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Which: they're not in the database. Only UUIDs in the database.
* [11:50] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: It's just a customer view
* [11:50] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: I'm also not a fan of showing something to Residents that requires an inverse transform to get back to what's in the database though
* [11:51] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Fine, live with the problem then. One can only take a horse to water .... :P
* [11:51] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: Heh :-) It's a complicated problem
* [11:51] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: heh
* [11:52] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: I think I am coming around to the notion that timestamps can't really save us
* [11:52] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Nah, of all the problems before us, that qualifies as the easiest :P
* [11:52] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: It's a problem that involves subjective opinion, therefore it's really complicated for engineers :-)
* [11:53] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Yeah well, that's nothing new, that the customer doesn't know what he wants :P
* [11:54] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: So as another example from the rest of the world, ING uses short integers for transaction ids that appear to be sequence numbers associated with the account
* [11:54] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: as i said, the problem has been dealt with gazillion of times, tradiotionally using database construct called sequences. if you have decided to abondon this traditional model and go with uuids, stick with it, and display them as transaction ids
* [11:54] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: So your first transaction on ING is transaction 1; so there's no way to correlate transactions between accounts
* [11:55] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: Would you be so kind as to point me at another company/site that does transactions and gives out identifiers that are intended for two customers to compare with each other?
* [11:55] [[User:Ardy Lay|Ardy Lay]]: I still hear people whining about having to dial 10 digit telephone numbers instead of 7. My response is that when I was a kid I only had to dial 5, so deal with it. I do and I have dyslexia.
* [11:55] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: Paypal was one that I could think of, but I couldn't think of another
* [11:55] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: Ardy: only 5??? crazy
* [11:55] [[User:Poppy Linden|Poppy Linden]]: Sounds like you're saying account_id.seuence_id is unique
* [11:56] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Well we're trying to take a global view because of the massive scalability needed up ahead, so making UUIDs makes sense. The rest is just a matter of presentation. The tail shouldn't wag the dog.
* [11:56] [[User:Ardy Lay|Ardy Lay]]: Which, yes. It was a mechanical telephone switch and we had rotary dials.
* [11:56] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: using* UUIDs
* [11:56] [[User:Phantom Ninetails|Phantom Ninetails]]: Which: Eventually you'll be hearing "only 10??? crazy"
* [11:56] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: heh!
* [11:56] [[User:Phantom Ninetails|Phantom Ninetails]]: :P
* [11:57] [[User:Enkidu Linden|Enkidu Linden]]: i'm hearing: "let's change phone numbers to uuids!"
* [11:57] [[User:Elbereth Witte|Elbereth Witte]]: I hate having to use the Mars prefix!
* [11:57] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: hopefully by that point people will be saying "you had to remember a number?? crazy"
* [11:57] [[User:Phantom Ninetails|Phantom Ninetails]]: lol
* [11:57] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: Which, i already say that lol
* [11:57] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: hasn't dialed actal number in ages
* [11:57] [[User:Phantom Ninetails|Phantom Ninetails]]: Maybe in the future we'll be memorizing IPv6 addresses.
* [11:58] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Funny how the Git community is full of people asking that the tail should wag the dog too. They don't get "decentralized".
* [11:58] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: i still remember some dns ip's in case i need to look up
* [11:58] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: like 4.2.2.4 if you ever need one in a hurry ;)
* [11:58] [[User:Phantom Ninetails|Phantom Ninetails]]: lol
* [11:58] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: yeah it always makes you look more competent to type that in there in an emergecny
* [11:59] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: that's a good one, I will remember that
* [11:59] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: really useful to debug dns issues
* [11:59] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: yeah
* [12:00] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: actually all from 4.2.2.2 - 4.2.2.6 are valid name servers that let anybody use them
* [12:00] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: tries not to DOS them
* [12:00] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: ok well, it's getting around time to wrap this up, I think we had some interesting ideas here
* [12:00] [[User:Phantom Ninetails|Phantom Ninetails]]: There's also 4.0.0.1 and 4.0.0.2
* [12:00] [[User:Enkidu Linden|Enkidu Linden]]: me too
* [12:00] [[User:Enkidu Linden|Enkidu Linden]]: this was neat
* [12:01] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: dig -x 4.2.2.4 | grep PTR.
* 4.2.2.4.in-addr.arpa. 86400 IN PTR vnsc-pri-dsl.genuity.net.
* [12:01] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: Hopefully one of the UI specialists will get some time to wokr on the page pretty soon and then --- radness will ensue :-)
* [12:01] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Those are handy, cheers
* [12:01] [[User:Twisted Laws|Twisted Laws]]: :)
* [12:02] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: hehe :)
* [12:02] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: awesome folks
* [12:02] [[User:Enkidu Linden|Enkidu Linden]]: i'm heading out. thanks you guys!
* [12:02] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: thanks again for coming by and being awesome
* [12:02] [[User:Phantom Ninetails|Phantom Ninetails]]: Fare well everyone
* [12:02] [[User:Latif Khalifa|Latif Khalifa]]: thanks for hosting ;)
* [12:02] [[User:Twisted Laws|Twisted Laws]]: have a good day
* [12:02] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: will see you next week

User:Which Linden/Office Hours/2009 Oct 1 - Revision history

Which Linden: Created page with '* [11:00] Morgaine Dinova: Hi peeps * [11:00] Which Linden: what is up my rabbits * [11:00] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinov...'