Which Linden: Created page with '* [11:07] Sebastean Steamweaver: And he appears! * [11:07] Morgaine Dinova: Hiya Which :-) * [11:07] [[User:Sebastean St...'

2010-02-11T20:06:46Z

Created page with '* [11:07] Sebastean Steamweaver: And he appears! * [11:07] Morgaine Dinova: Hiya Which :-) * [11:07] [[User:Sebastean St...'

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* [11:07] [[User:Sebastean Steamweaver|Sebastean Steamweaver]]: And he appears!
* [11:07] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Hiya Which :-)
* [11:07] [[User:Sebastean Steamweaver|Sebastean Steamweaver]]: wonders if Which detected the plant fertlizer.
* [11:07] [[User:Sahkolihaa Contepomi|Sahkolihaa Contepomi]]: o_o
* [11:08] [[User:Sebastean Steamweaver|Sebastean Steamweaver]]: Which will be so happy when we get avatar transparency.
* [11:08] [[User:Questar Utu|Questar Utu]]: Wouldn't plant fetilizer be sort of like cat nip is to cats?
* [11:08] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: hiya
* [11:08] [[User:Sebastean Steamweaver|Sebastean Steamweaver]]: I would guess so, yes.
* [11:08] [[User:JB Hancroft|JB Hancroft]]: hi
* [11:08] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: yeah I will Sebastean!
* [11:10] [[User:JB Hancroft|JB Hancroft]]: Which, you're looking very "green"
* [11:10] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: that's right, let it not be said that this isn't a green-friendly company
* [11:10] [[User:Sebastean Steamweaver|Sebastean Steamweaver]]: chuckles.
* [11:11] [[User:JB Hancroft|JB Hancroft]]: nor... that content matters ;)
* [11:11] [[User:JB Hancroft|JB Hancroft]]: *context* :)
* [11:12] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: ah...sorry, I'm a bit distracted today
* [11:12] [[User:Sebastean Steamweaver|Sebastean Steamweaver]]: No worries Which.
* [11:12] [[User:JB Hancroft|JB Hancroft]]: What's the distraction?
* [11:13] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: we're moving our development stations to a different colo, so I'm scrambling to get to a good new host and copy all my files over
* [11:13] [[User:Sebastean Steamweaver|Sebastean Steamweaver]]: Well, thanks for showing up today all the same :) We appreciate the time.
* [11:14] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: faster development!
* [11:14] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: man, I love moore's law
* [11:14] [[User:Sebastean Steamweaver|Sebastean Steamweaver]]: Hehe
* [11:14] [[User:JB Hancroft|JB Hancroft]]: Are you physically moving people, also?
* [11:14] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: no
* [11:14] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: well, maybe, depends on how much you're offering me to.... :-P
* [11:15] [[User:JB Hancroft|JB Hancroft]]: Moore's law is great, if you are buying machines, in the future. It bites you when you buy one, though...
* [11:15] [[User:Sebastean Steamweaver|Sebastean Steamweaver]]: Hehe
* [11:15] [[User:Sahkolihaa Contepomi|Sahkolihaa Contepomi]]: I...don't recall seeing this OH before: [11:15
* [11:15] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: yeah moore's law is like deflation
* [11:15] [[User:Sahkolihaa Contepomi|Sahkolihaa Contepomi]]: Yoz Linden?
* [11:15] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: oh that's cool; yoz is awesome
* [11:15] [[User:JB Hancroft|JB Hancroft]]: What's a Yoz?
* [11:16] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: yoz is unique
* [11:16] [[User:Melchizedek Blauvelt|Melchizedek Blauvelt]]: Started last week Sah, it'sabout AU etc
* [11:16] [[User:JB Hancroft|JB Hancroft]]: That would be Unique Linden
* [11:16] [[User:Sahkolihaa Contepomi|Sahkolihaa Contepomi]]: Ah. I skipped most of last weeks OHs due to college work.
* [11:16] [[User:Sebastean Steamweaver|Sebastean Steamweaver]]: Which, are you familiar at all with dealing with in-world assets?
* [11:17] [[User:JB Hancroft|JB Hancroft]]: Which - I'm curious about what LL is doing about virtualization... for sims?
* [11:17] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: JB: well, it's a complex project
* [11:17] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: I feel that if we were to do that it might just be easier to virtualize the entire OS
* [11:18] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: Sebastean: not sure what you mean by "dealing with"
* [11:18] [[User:Sebastean Steamweaver|Sebastean Steamweaver]]: IT's more in line with Andrew's hours, I'll admit, but I just had a quick question about raycasting. If that's outside your line of work, that's fine.
* [11:19] [[User:Sebastean Steamweaver|Sebastean Steamweaver]]: i.e. having a script define a raycast offset, and finding the key of the first object that intersects with it, if any.
* [11:19] [[User:JB Hancroft|JB Hancroft]]: Sebastean - would you use a phantom temp object and check collisions?
* [11:19] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: Ah! Definitely not my speed, I'm afraid
* [11:20] [[User:Sebastean Steamweaver|Sebastean Steamweaver]]: No problem Which :)
* [11:20] [[User:Sebastean Steamweaver|Sebastean Steamweaver]]: JB - I'd like to avoid using a temp object if at all possible.
* [11:20] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: I'm more of a web services/UI guy
* [11:20] [[User:JB Hancroft|JB Hancroft]]: Which... http-in fall into your area?
* [11:21] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: JB: that's a bit closer, I know some people
* [11:21] [[User:JB Hancroft|JB Hancroft]]: How has the deployment of http-in affected the traffic in/out of SL, with the Web? Is it as you'd expected?
* [11:22] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: "There's this guy I met in prison, he knows a lot of people who do http-in jobs."
* [11:22] [[User:JB Hancroft|JB Hancroft]]: eek!
* [11:22] [[User:Melchizedek Blauvelt|Melchizedek Blauvelt]]: lol
* [11:22] [[User:Sebastean Steamweaver|Sebastean Steamweaver]]: lol
* [11:22] [[User:JB Hancroft|JB Hancroft]]: I look terrible in stripes... :(
* [11:22] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: That's a great question, and I don't know the answer to it. I believe that http-in hasn't changed our traffic dramatically.
* [11:23] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: uptake has been slow
* [11:23] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: Which was expected
* [11:23] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: At previous office hours, people have complained about how the interface is inconvenient enough that they
* [11:23] [[User:JB Hancroft|JB Hancroft]]: we're using http-in for Relay For Life this year
* [11:23] [[User:Sebastean Steamweaver|Sebastean Steamweaver]]: There are a lot of systems I intend to implement HTTP-IN on, but sometimes it's a matter of time to switch it over from the old email systems.
* [11:23] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: would prefer to use the old email or xml-rpc, even though those are busted in various ways
* [11:24] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: Yeah, it's totally a matter of the devil you know
* [11:24] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: Also, it's difficult to update scripts
* [11:24] [[User:JB Hancroft|JB Hancroft]]: we did a scaleability test... rezzed 1800 kiosks in a sim, and they all were able to handle traffic very quickly... nice
* [11:25] [[User:Sebastean Steamweaver|Sebastean Steamweaver]]: I think http_in is the best thing since sliced bread. But sometimes if you don't have something completely ready, you're more inclined to use a working existing system.
* [11:25] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: Nice
* [11:25] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: JB: that's actually awesome, you should, like, give seminars on that
* [11:25] [[User:Sebastean Steamweaver|Sebastean Steamweaver]]: I will admit that I'd like the limits for http_in to be more like llEmail as far as character counts.
* [11:27] [[User:JB Hancroft|JB Hancroft]]: ZenMondo Wormser did the baseline coding of http-in ... did a nice job.
* [11:28] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: size of bodies limited to 2k bytes....that is pretty small
* [11:28] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: that's like a packet!
* [11:29] [[User:JB Hancroft|JB Hancroft]]: being able to say what offset you wanted to retrieve, or a "get more/next" callback would be nice...
* [11:30] [[User:Sebastean Steamweaver|Sebastean Steamweaver]]: I was hoping at some point they might consider expanding that a bit. It can be a bit of a hassle to separate data over to messages, instead of sending things "all at once." There are a few cases I've encountered where I've had to do that.
* [11:31] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: yeah; it seems like a good design practice to start off with low limits to avoid crushing everything, but to slowly raise the limits as usage dictates
* [11:31] [[User:JB Hancroft|JB Hancroft]]: I've had to rely on some off-world parsing, to pull out the pieces/parts I want in-world
* [11:34] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: to some degree, that's desired; I believe part of the point was the recognition that inworld scripts are never going to be as powerful as externally-hosted scripts
* [11:34] [[User:Sebastean Steamweaver|Sebastean Steamweaver]]: That may change with Babbage's "Big Scripts" project.
* [11:35] [[User:JB Hancroft|JB Hancroft]]: so much for my plans to sell Apache WebServer prims :(
* [11:35] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: yeah, maybe; in which case maybe the limit would be raised for big scripts
* [11:36] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: how would you feel about trading off the 64 queued requests for larger body sizes? I.e. 4k body sizes but only 32 of them queued at a time?
* [11:36] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: (just hypotehtically)
* [11:36] [[User:Sebastean Steamweaver|Sebastean Steamweaver]]: Well personally, I don't use nearly 32 as it is.
* [11:36] [[User:Sebastean Steamweaver|Sebastean Steamweaver]]: I guess it depends on the traffic one uses.
* [11:36] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: I guess it would be hard to tell how much of that you use
* [11:36] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: Or is there a way to directly inspect the number of queued requests?
* [11:36] [[User:JB Hancroft|JB Hancroft]]: is there a way to know?
* [11:37] [[User:Sebastean Steamweaver|Sebastean Steamweaver]]: Hmm
* [11:37] [[User:Sebastean Steamweaver|Sebastean Steamweaver]]: Good point, Iwas just going by requests recieved in X period of time.
* [11:37] [[User:JB Hancroft|JB Hancroft]]: And that gives an average, not peak values.
* [11:37] [[User:Jonathan Yap|Jonathan Yap]]: Maybe it could be user-settable; I had a need for more queued requests for a project but all very small packet-wise
* [11:38] [[User:JB Hancroft|JB Hancroft]]: "I've never dropped a packet.... that I know of" - UDP
* [11:39] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: You could time your request handler to see how long it takes to process one request, then use that to determine an rps rate for handling, and if you see yourself at that rate for N requests, you can make some assumptions about how many of those N requests were buffered
* [11:40] [[User:JB Hancroft|JB Hancroft]]: that's a good idea... I like it :)
* [11:40] [[User:Sebastean Steamweaver|Sebastean Steamweaver]]: Doesn't llEmail have a wya to get queued emails? Haven't looked at email functions in a while.
* [11:40] [[User:JB Hancroft|JB Hancroft]]: I think you just get an indicator if there is "more"
* [11:41] [[User:Sebastean Steamweaver|Sebastean Steamweaver]]: email(string time, string address, string subj, string message, integer num_left)
* [11:41] [[User:Sebastean Steamweaver|Sebastean Steamweaver]]: The last one gives the number of emails left.
* [11:41] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: hm that's nice
* [11:41] [[User:JB Hancroft|JB Hancroft]]: cool...
* [11:41] [[User:Jonathan Yap|Jonathan Yap]]: You use llGetNextEmail on a timer event to pick up messages
* [11:42] [[User:Sebastean Steamweaver|Sebastean Steamweaver]]: Maybe since versioning is coming out, a similar parameter could be added to http_in
* [11:44] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: Maybe!
* [11:44] [[User:Sebastean Steamweaver|Sebastean Steamweaver]]: releases a cricket in Which's pot.
* [11:45] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: I just put that bug in the ear of some developers
* [11:45] [[User:Sebastean Steamweaver|Sebastean Steamweaver]]: Hehe, awesome :)
* [11:45] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: g'day all
* [11:45] [[User:Sebastean Steamweaver|Sebastean Steamweaver]]: Hey there Saij
* [11:46] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: Hi Sai!
* [11:46] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: long time no see
* [11:46] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: been a strange past few months
* [11:46] [[User:JB Hancroft|JB Hancroft]]: Hi Sai :)
* [11:46] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: BUT, one happy thing: just got my squeak to squeak shared memory IPC working with OpenGL
* [11:46] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: waves at Sai
* [11:47] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Cool Sai!
* [11:47] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: your squake?
* [11:47] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: What was the solution?
* [11:47] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: squeak
* [11:47] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: so I can draw using OpenGL, copy to a shared memory buffer, and read it in the next instance
* [11:47] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: solution was me using wrong variables in opengl call, as expected
* [11:48] [[User:Sebastean Steamweaver|Sebastean Steamweaver]]: The solution was using wrong variables, or was that the problem?
* [11:48] [[User:JB Hancroft|JB Hancroft]]: picky, picky ;)
* [11:48] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: I WAS using the wrong parameters
* [11:48] [[User:Sebastean Steamweaver|Sebastean Steamweaver]]: Ahh
* [11:48] [[User:Sebastean Steamweaver|Sebastean Steamweaver]]: Well you never know JB, sometimes you can get things to work using "wrong" things ;)
* [11:48] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: next milestone: share buffer with SL plugin and draw from squeak to SL plugin texture
* [11:49] [[User:Sebastean Steamweaver|Sebastean Steamweaver]]: *cough*PosJump*cough*
* [11:49] [[User:JB Hancroft|JB Hancroft]]: nods... I found a bug the other day... the code "appeared" to be working, and it was too bugs interacting, to cause "correctness" :(
* [11:49] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: SysV shared memory?
* [11:50] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: more or less. FreeBSD shared memory
* [11:50] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: whichis what the plugin uses for Mac OS X IIRC
* [11:50] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: shmget shmat etc
* [11:51] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: What's the end goal, Sai? squeak runtime for writing sl viewer plugins?
* [11:51] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: yeah, basically. The ultimate version would be croquet on a prim
* [11:52] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: so could have telepresence between cobalt and SL
* [11:53] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: That's hella ambitous, man
* [11:53] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: this also solves an issue they've had with cobalt where they couldn't easily use VNC with cobalt because it was drawing opengl to the screen, which VNC normally won't pick up
* [11:54] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: but I THINK its possible to tell VNC to use a buffer instead
* [11:54] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: hey guys;unrelated; if someone makes a JIRA for inspecting the amount of pending http-in requests, I'll link it to https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-3077
* [11:54] [[User:JIRA-helper: [#MISC-3077|JIRA-helper: [#MISC-3077]]:
* [11:54] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: so I sorta solved a Cobalt project problem at the same time
* [11:54] [[User:Sebastean Steamweaver|Sebastean Steamweaver]]: I'll do that now Which :)
* [11:54] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: double brownie points
* [11:54] [[User:Sebastean Steamweaver|Sebastean Steamweaver]]: opens a JIRA pag.
* [11:55] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: thanks Sebastean
* [11:56] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: Sai: this cobalt? [http://www.duke.edu/~julian/Cobalt/Home.html]
* [11:57] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: correct. Croquet Hax and Tapple Gao in Groupies are part of that project
* [11:58] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: so hopefully Julian will stop being quite so condenscending when I'm in the team meetings on skype :-)
* [11:59] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: but I'm happy. Been hitting my head against this wall for a very long time
* [11:59] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: feels so goooood
* [11:59] [[User:JB Hancroft|JB Hancroft]]: I'm glad you got it figured out, Sai.
* [11:59] [[User:JB Hancroft|JB Hancroft]]: What did you do to discover the problem?
* [12:00] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: asked in the squeak-dev mailing list
* [12:00] [[User:JB Hancroft|JB Hancroft]]: nice
* [12:00] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: I had parameter issues is all (which is what I expected)
* [12:00] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: OpenGL newb
* [12:01] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: Everyone's an OpenGL newb at heart
* [12:01] [[User:JB Hancroft|JB Hancroft]]: I was at a conference not long ago where they had "Human Search Engine" sessions. You would stand up to the microphone, ask your question, and those who knew how to contribute to the answer would meet you aside.
* [12:01] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: well, once I understand the squeak FFI a little better
* [12:01] [[User:Sebastean Steamweaver|Sebastean Steamweaver]]: [http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5372]
* [12:01] [[User:JIRA-helper: [#SVC-5372|JIRA-helper: [#SVC-5372]]:
* [12:02] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: I won't be so newb. You can use most opengl calls in squeak the same way you can any other smalltalk. So I can play with opengl interactively, mod something and do it again
* [12:02] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: that's a main reason for writing the SL plugin tester in squeak.
* [12:03] [[User:Sebastean Steamweaver|Sebastean Steamweaver]]: (Does that seem like an accurate description of t he proposal?)
* [12:03] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: Linking, Sebastean
* [12:04] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: OK I should run! Thanks all for a great discussion
* [12:05] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: I may not be here next week due to Pycon
* [12:05] [[User:JB Hancroft|JB Hancroft]]: thanks, Which
* [12:05] [[User:Sebastean Steamweaver|Sebastean Steamweaver]]: Thanks for the office hours which :)
* [12:05] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: Haven't checked the schedule yet
* [12:05] [[User:JB Hancroft|JB Hancroft]]: Good luck with all the "moving"
* [12:05] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: Heh thanks! I'm firing up my rsync now
* [12:05] [[User:Sahkolihaa Contepomi|Sahkolihaa Contepomi]]: See you Which.
* [12:05] [[User:Which Linden|Which Linden]]: Take care
* [12:05] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: take care which

User:Which Linden/Office Hours/2010 Feb 11 - Revision history

Which Linden: Created page with '* [11:07] Sebastean Steamweaver: And he appears! * [11:07] Morgaine Dinova: Hiya Which :-) * [11:07] [[User:Sebastean St...'