Tree Kyomoon: New page: * [8:35] JC Hill: ah bettie bettie thats all folks * [8:35] VoidTraveler Seetan: hello * [8:36] [[User:VoidTraveler Seetan|VoidTraveler Seet...

2008-10-02T16:48:27Z

New page: * [8:35] JC Hill: ah bettie bettie thats all folks * [8:35] VoidTraveler Seetan: hello * [8:36] [[User:VoidTraveler Seetan|VoidTraveler Seet...

New page

* [8:35] [[User:JC Hill|JC Hill]]: ah bettie bettie thats all folks
* [8:35] [[User:VoidTraveler Seetan|VoidTraveler Seetan]]: hello
* [8:36] [[User:VoidTraveler Seetan|VoidTraveler Seetan]]: ty
* [8:37] [[User:Kevin Paisley|Kevin Paisley]]: *meow*
* [8:38] [[User:VoidTraveler Seetan|VoidTraveler Seetan]]: so whats the meeting about sorry didnt catch it right
* [8:38] [[User:Turbo Racecourse|Turbo Racecourse]]: hi!
* [8:38] [[User:Tiglo McMillan|Tiglo McMillan]]: hello :)
* [8:38] [[User:VoidTraveler Seetan|VoidTraveler Seetan]]: hi
* [8:39] [[User:Kevin Paisley|Kevin Paisley]]: someone eating ribs on voice chat? i hear a mic open
* [8:39] [[User:camerone Vestel|camerone Vestel]]: hello
* [8:39] [[User:VoidTraveler Seetan|VoidTraveler Seetan]]: yeah me too i hear that
* [8:39] [[User:Zha Ewry|Zha Ewry]]: We seem tobe zeroless
* [8:39] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]: mmm ribs
* [8:39] [[User:VoidTraveler Seetan|VoidTraveler Seetan]]: id love ribs right now
* [8:39] [[User:INDICATOR: OFF|INDICATOR: OFF]]:
* [8:39] [[User:Kevin Paisley|Kevin Paisley]]: Yeah I know
* [8:39] [[User:VoidTraveler Seetan|VoidTraveler Seetan]]: pulls one of tree
* [8:40] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]: eeep
* [8:40] [[User:VoidTraveler Seetan|VoidTraveler Seetan]]: 8)
* [8:40] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]: soylent green!
* [8:40] [[User:Kevin Paisley|Kevin Paisley]]: hehe
* [8:40] [[User:VoidTraveler Seetan|VoidTraveler Seetan]]: sit on my lap lyndell
* [8:40] [[User:Tiglo McMillan|Tiglo McMillan]]: o/
* [8:40] [[User:Rex Cronon|Rex Cronon]]: greetings
* [8:40] [[User:Tiglo McMillan|Tiglo McMillan]]: o/
* [8:40] [[User:Tiglo McMillan|Tiglo McMillan]]: eijaoiojeaiojea
* [8:40] [[User:Tiglo McMillan|Tiglo McMillan]]: huhsHAUHsuhAUSHuahushUSHUAHSuhAUShuAHSUHASuhaushAHU!!
* [8:40] [[User:Widget Whiteberry|Widget Whiteberry]]: what's our agenda?
* [8:41] [[User:Kevin Paisley|Kevin Paisley]]: *mew* Heya Rex!
* [8:41] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: There,you see? Crash more than 2-3 timesin a row, and someone takes your seat
* [8:41] [[User:Zha Ewry|Zha Ewry]]: Ooh. Signs of Zero
* [8:41] [[User:Rex Cronon|Rex Cronon]]: hi
* [8:41] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: Good Morning Teacherzzzzzzzzz
* [8:41] [[User:yen Dagger|yen Dagger]]: hello =)
* [8:41] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]: zeero is neero?
* [8:41] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: nil est!
* [8:41] [[User:Rex Cronon|Rex Cronon]]: does anybody know why a new viewer is suddenly required?
* [8:41] [[User:Zha Ewry|Zha Ewry]]: I hope not nero. That would imply fiddling while the grid burns
* [8:42] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: Welll, I got on with the old one, but the newer RC crashed on me three timesin 5 minutes just now
* [8:42] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]: monsieur smarty pants
* [8:42] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: hello hello
* [8:42] [[User:Rex Cronon|Rex Cronon]]: hello zero
* [8:42] [[User:VoidTraveler Seetan|VoidTraveler Seetan]]: hi
* [8:42] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: well then - welcome to the Burning LIfe edition of my office hours!
* [8:43] [[User:Kerry Giha|Kerry Giha]]: Hello Zero
* [8:43] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: what's up, burners?
* [8:43] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]: stick it to the man!
* [8:43] [[User:Rex Cronon|Rex Cronon]]: we get to burn your office:)
* [8:43] [[User:Kevin Paisley|Kevin Paisley]]: Yayyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
* [8:44] [[User:VoidTraveler Seetan|VoidTraveler Seetan]]: ?
* [8:44] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]: wonders if the bailout will reach any of the SL banks
* [8:45] [[User:Kevin Paisley|Kevin Paisley]]: spent so long getting voice to work under linux and now i just hear someone eating ribs and saying "test" over and over :(
* [8:45] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: Interesting. I wasn't required to download the latest RC when I logged in
* [8:45] [[User:VoidTraveler Seetan|VoidTraveler Seetan]]: ha ha kevin
* [8:45] [[User:Rex Cronon|Rex Cronon]]: i guess everybody is contemplaiting their monitors
* [8:45] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: can't hear anyone
* [8:45] [[User:VoidTraveler Seetan|VoidTraveler Seetan]]: no one is talking thats why
* [8:45] [[User:Zha Ewry|Zha Ewry]]: Siaj, diid you have a leftover from last session?
* [8:45] [[User:VoidTraveler Seetan|VoidTraveler Seetan]]: aww
* [8:45] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: voice suddenly not working...
* [8:45] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]: they call 'em fingers but Ive never seen 'em fing.
* [8:46] [[User:Kerry Giha|Kerry Giha]]: It seems to be working fine, just no-one is talking.
* [8:46] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: ...leftover.... ribs....? what is this, a picnic? Interoperability ain't no picnic! (and you can quote me on that!)
* [8:46] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: Just wanted to promote implementing current IM in the OGP (for now). WHump suggeseted I make a jira to that effect
* [8:46] [[User:Kevin Paisley|Kevin Paisley]]: hehe
* [8:46] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: Okay - Agenda items
* [8:47] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: Moin
* [8:47] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: Moin^2?
* [8:48] [[User:Turbo Racecourse|Turbo Racecourse]]: ... this is a crash test, please don't sit in the middle of the road when the truck approaching! ...... this is a crash test, p
* [8:48] [[User:Turbo Racecourse|Turbo Racecourse]]: ... this is a crash test, please don't sit in the middle of the road when the truck approaching! ...
* [8:48] [[User:Turbo Racecourse|Turbo Racecourse]]: ... this is a crash test, please don't sit in the middle of the road when the truck approaching! ...
* [8:48] [[User:Turbo Racecourse|Turbo Racecourse]]: ... this is a crash test, please don't sit in the middle of the road when the truck approaching! ...
* [8:48] [[User:Turbo Racecourse|Turbo Racecourse]]: about the sound....it happens sometime....i hear a little scratch and sl log me off.....receiving the crash advice...then i got a msg about
* (error with sl voice)
* [8:48] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: northern german greeting
* [8:48] [[User:Turbo Racecourse|Turbo Racecourse]]: sorry for this stupid text....a gesture i have to rid
* [8:49] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: In fact, I'm having trouble with voice also.
* [8:49] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]: voice doesnt work for me ... am I missing all the cool conversations?
* [8:50] [[User:Kerry Giha|Kerry Giha]]: I just don't think anyone is talking.
* [8:50] [[User:Larissa Vacano|Larissa Vacano]]: hello ;-)
* [8:50] [[User:Zha Ewry|Zha Ewry]]: This is a text meeting
* [8:50] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: chilly meeting then :)
* [8:50] [[User:Turbo Racecourse|Turbo Racecourse]]: btw...is about 2 days now that i dont encounter this matter, but if i will go in a specific sim it happens and happens again....when i will be
* back it will be ok then
* [8:50] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: Okay --- well, only Item I hear is IM
* [8:50] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: SO
* [8:50] [[User:Rex Cronon|Rex Cronon]]: everybody is asking: How does tree get his bones so shiny:)
* [8:50] [[User:Widget Whiteberry|Widget Whiteberry]]: offers Zero aspirin and coffee
* [8:50] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: Let's open that can of worms and see where it gets us!
* [8:50] [[User:Rex Cronon|Rex Cronon]]: hi
* [8:51] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]: crelm bone polish
* [8:51] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: will think further about this topic at tomorrow's holiday :)
* [8:51] [[User:Zha Ewry|Zha Ewry]]: gets out her worm repllent
* [8:51] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: Is it Nationial Text Msg day in Germany?
* [8:51] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: It's reunion day
* [8:51] [[User:Larissa Vacano|Larissa Vacano]]: tomorrow its reunion day
* [8:52] [[User:Zha Ewry|Zha Ewry]]: Last time we talked about this, there was some arguing that you just needed a plug point to put in random messaging systems, and that OGP needn't
* touch it at all
* [8:52] [[User:VoidTraveler Seetan|VoidTraveler Seetan]]: ok where is this meeting going has it even started?
* [8:52] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]: oh I did have an item...is forced object load ordering a reasonable topic?
* [8:52] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: maybe we need a national text messaging day in SL :)
* [8:52] [[User:Zha Ewry|Zha Ewry]]: forced, in what sense?
* [8:53] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: uhm, sure, Tree -- added as #2
* [8:53] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]: like an island owner can determine certain objects to be always loaded before any others
* [8:53] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: So - there are three kinds of IM in SL (!)
* [8:53] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: person to person IM
* [8:53] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: group IM
* [8:53] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: and ad-hoc group IM
* [8:53] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: I'm OK with that. ALl I'm arguing for right now is to implement the current system as a temporary solution to give us a working group IM for:
* community amongst the gridnauts and to see what happens when you send real info downthe AD Event QUeue
* [8:53] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: they all (sigh) work differently
* [8:54] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: and they are mixed with object transfer and stuff like this, right?
* [8:54] [[User:Zha Ewry|Zha Ewry]]: That's impressively annoying
* [8:54] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: Ah - well, Saijanai - not really possible --- at present, the IM is handled by the region
* [8:54] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: [http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/ImprovedInstantMessage]
* [8:55] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: Iguess that's sorta my point
* [8:55] [[User:VoidTraveler Seetan|VoidTraveler Seetan]]: ok go on zero
* [8:56] [[User:Zha Ewry|Zha Ewry]]: And certanly, the region could care less
* [8:56] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: Well - yes and no, Zha
* [8:56] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: it seems to me, that if the AD is going to act as some kind ofproxy for group IM, that we will have to solve this issue at some point
* [8:56] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: Here's the use case that has come up internally
* [8:56] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: say Amy and Bob work for the same company
* [8:57] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: and need to establish secure communications with each other..
* [8:57] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]: misses Amy and Bob
* [8:58] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: If they are on random regions out in the virtual-world
* [8:58] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: then we would expect that any IM traffice would go: Amy <--> A's AD <--> B's AD <--> Bob
* [8:58] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: BUT
* [8:58] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: if both are on a region
* [8:59] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: inside their company
* [8:59] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: then
* [8:59] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: I would think it goes Any <--> IM Service <--> Bob
* [8:59] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: it might be the case that they WANT their IM to go: Amy <--> Region <--> Bob
* [8:59] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: so that it stays within the corporate firewall
* [8:59] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: IM service could be provided by their company and highly secure
* [8:59] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: (or rather, the company may want that)
* [8:59] [[User:Zha Ewry|Zha Ewry]]: well, through the regoin, or pointed to by the region?
* [8:59] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: Tao -
* [8:59] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: they might also want to use group IM while not being logged in to a region
* [9:00] [[User:Zha Ewry|Zha Ewry]]: The regoin, isn't in any sense, about IM management
* [9:00] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: I think that *if* we simply put in a vector to the users's preferred IM system, then
* [9:00] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: we will achieve a disconnected world
* [9:00] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: what happens if I want to IM you, but you are not on the IM system I am?
* [9:00] [[User:Zha Ewry|Zha Ewry]]: Which feels very wrong, since you end up without any ties to the rest of the system
* [9:00] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: we could specify a prferred system in the spec but keep the protocol open to add new ones (or additional ones)
* [9:00] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: And, if we just vector out to other systems, then we also lose all the integration with them
* [9:01] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: like group chat and ad-hoc chat
* [9:01] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: but when doing it all outselves we are reinventing things and then we are disconnected from the rest of the internet
* [9:01] [[User:Zha Ewry|Zha Ewry]]: right. Its not any good, if by allowing Amy and Bob to talk securely, nobdy else can talk to them
* [9:01] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: all of this seems to be a rason to implement the current system so we have a working situation to play around with...
* [9:02] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: Or - we could spec the IM protocol from the viewer to either AD or RD --- but nothing stops those (especially the AD) from peering with other IM
* systems
* [9:02] [[User:Rex Cronon|Rex Cronon]]: once u allow outside message u no longer have security
* [9:02] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: there just doesn't seem to be any benefit to the user to support multiple protocols in the client ---- it is access to multiple IM systems that is
* of value
* [9:02] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: Zero: That's my point. We can still provide a hook in the protocol to let clients connect to other IM systemns but specify one as the OGP one
* [9:02] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: so why not simplify the client, one IM protocol (after all, they aren't rocket science), and then
* [9:03] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: allow the AD to offer your account services like peering or account aggregation with other IM systems (like what meebo does)
* [9:03] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: this hook might even be a general one which does not only is useful for IM
* [9:03] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: But Tao, that would be client side, not domain side, yes?
* [9:03] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: basically it would be getting information about the user I guess
* [9:04] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: well, the service the client connects to might want some information about the agent and might get it from the AD
* [9:04] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: so the AD might have some information webservice which can be called by e.g. some OAuth protected URL
* [9:04] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: So, let's look at a very specific case
* [9:05] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: Amy is on region Alpha - her AD is AvatarsRUs (ARU)
* [9:05] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: the IM service could then show this agent as a verified agent if this web service could have been called
* [9:05] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: Bob is on region Beta - his AD is BetterAgentsHere (BAH)
* [9:05] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: Amy@ARU
* [9:05] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: Now, Amy wants to IM Bob
* [9:06] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: Presumably, first, Amy's viewer asks ARU for her friends list, and their presence
* [9:06] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: Amy can do a service discovery for Bob and gets the preferred IM service of Bob
* [9:06] [[User:Ratcloner101 Burner|Ratcloner101 Burner]]: bqd LoL
* [9:06] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: presumably, ARU has subscribed to BAH for Bob's presence and has that he is on line
* [9:07] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: Hm, that means we need to have lots of subscriptions between ADs for presence information?
* [9:07] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: So - let's look at that -- Amy fetches some service discovery URL for Bob (supplied by ARU in the firends list) and gets what? URLs for AIM and
* Jabber?
* [9:07] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: wonders if there are URL schemes for AIM or Jabber .... thinks no.....
* [9:08] [[User:Zha Ewry|Zha Ewry]]: cringes as she thinks about how hard most of this would be to hide from users
* [9:08] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: But okay, so Amy gets aim:BroCool1982 and jabber:BobSmith@jabber.org
* [9:08] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: these can be created. But it might be some service which might mark itself additionally as AD aware (so we know it's some service which can ask an
* AD about detail information or not)
* [9:09] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: I don't know about the Jabber protocol but for IRC she could then login to that IRC server and eventually allow this server to retrieve her agent
* information from her AD
* [9:09] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: at this point - *IF* Amy has an IM account on one of those systems, AND her viewer has the appropriate protocol support --- then she can IM Bob
* [9:09] [[User:Zha Ewry|Zha Ewry]]: (And if all the names map and permissions map, and friends are regiistered correctly)
* [9:09] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: as said, we might define one protocol as the standard one
* [9:09] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: but it seems like at best, this is just client-side protocol integration --- like mutli-protocol systems
* [9:10] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: still you might want to have the ability for some service to verify an agent
* [9:10] [[User:Zha Ewry|Zha Ewry]]: has friends who may well be on systems but have not gotten around to authing all my various names to them
* [9:10] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: and we've lost any possible integration: How do you give inventory over this channel?
* [9:10] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: via some webservice of the AD?
* [9:10] [[User:Rex Cronon|Rex Cronon]]: insiside the IM:)
* [9:11] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: So - all of this additional protocol - the back mapping of identifiers, webservices to the AD, service discovery is to what end?
* [9:11] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: I am not sure I would put inventory stuff into an IM protocol
* [9:11] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: she contacted Bob already so she has Bob's AD URL
* [9:11] [[User:Rex Cronon|Rex Cronon]]: is just text tao
* [9:11] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: I posit that none of the existing IM systems have any protocol magic (they are literally about 7 message types)
* [9:12] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: [http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/ImprovedInstantMessage] for reference to what existing IM does
* [9:12] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: The only value is integration with friends on other networks? And if so, why not leave that all out of the spec and do it in the agent domain?
* [9:12] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: so she can call PUT [http://BAH.com/bob/inventory/inbox]
* [9:12] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: Sai - yes - that SL needs so many types is an example of the integration that will be lost using, say AIM
* [9:12] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: only value of what?
* [9:13] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: What is the value for Amy and Bob to negotiate which IM protocol they use?
* [9:13] [[User:INDICATOR: OFF|INDICATOR: OFF]]:
* [9:13] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: That gets back to my point, I think. Gt the conection point working for the current setup via the AD EQG CAP and see how we can change the
* protocol coming into the AD without affecting the client's interface
* [9:13] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: the ability to hook up new protocols easier.. but I am really simply just talking about a way for external service to verify an agent
* [9:14] [[User:Zha Ewry|Zha Ewry]]: You *may* get some real value, if it integrates into the company IM system, but.. that's more a gateway story, I think
* [9:14] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: so there is also the possibility then to extend the functionality easily.. people who want to experiement with whatever protocol could then do so
* easily
* [9:15] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: I think the loss of garunteed interoperability is a problem ---
* [9:16] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: --- and really, there isn't anything stopping anyone from doing service discovery on Bob (if we provide the end point) --- and vectoring to ALL
* SORTS of services
* [9:16] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: as said, we can define one protocol as the standard one which has to be implemented
* [9:16] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: that's my point
* [9:16] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: I just think IM is one of those integral aspects of a virtual world -- and it has to just work
* [9:16] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: If so - then there is no reason to do service discovery for the integrated IM -
* [9:16] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: but do we really want to put all those things in the IIM list into one protocol? This looks to more more like separate web services
* [9:17] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: it should be a protocol suite you get from the Agent Domain --- and possibly the REgion Domain
* [9:17] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: ok, if we have a default, then there isn't a need but it might be a COULD
* [9:17] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: (for constrained to region chats)
* [9:17] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: and there ya go
* [9:17] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: Again, this goes back to my suggestion: get SOMETHING working, see how it can be played with in a "real" situation, and go from there
* [9:18] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: also gives us the current inventory transfer system "for free" so we can start experimenting with security/trust issues in a workng setup
* [9:18] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: but implementing the improved IM seems to be quite some work ;-)
* [9:18] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: and seems to touch many systems
* [9:18] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: well, if the packet remains thesame as it comes into the client, then its all AD-side work
* [9:19] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: and if we decide to make it several different types of packets, no reason why that can't be done also
* [9:20] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: well- I think the 1-on-1 IM system is pretty simple
* [9:20] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: my other point is though that defining our own IM system makes implementing an AD more difficult
* [9:20] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: using existing systems and maybe adding something might be easier
* [9:20] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: Tao, why?
* [9:20] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: because it's a lot of work to implement it from scratch
* [9:20] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: the less I have to implement the better
* [9:21] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: is not from scratch. Existing client uses existing protocol. Existing IM server could treat AD as a never changing Sim
* [9:21] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: I don't know, Tao -- using an existing one means figurring out how to mirror state from the agent domain in the IM system
* [9:21] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: and mapping identifiers
* [9:21] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: seems easier than implementing a system from just a protocol specification
* [9:21] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: so - I don't think picking Jabber, say is going to save you any implementation time
* [9:22] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: at least I'd know that basic IM is already working
* [9:22] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: Zero is there something wrong with my understanding of how the current system works? The group IM sends data to the sim, which forwards it to the
* client via UDP, right?
* [9:22] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: after all- that and IRC are the only two available building blocks (AIM being propritary as is MSN and Yahoo) -
* [9:22] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: but I don't think those servers are especially integratable
* [9:22] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: Sai - yes
* [9:23] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]: I wonder how gaim / pidgeon does it
* [9:23] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: Tree - those are clients, not server side
* [9:23] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]: right sorry
* [9:23] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: so... tell the group IM server that the AD is a sim, and let the AD reroute stuff to the client
* [9:23] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: gaim / pidgeon, and others have reversed engineered the AIM and other propriatery protocols
* [9:23] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: seems reasonably trivial, at least when I sayit
* [9:23] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: there are legendary internet stories of AIM changing the protocol and all the open clients scrambling
* [9:24] [[User:Zha Ewry|Zha Ewry]]: Unless you do a lot of work, you end up with a very imersion breaking solution, I fear
* [9:24] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: feel free to code it for pyogp, I'd say it's not rtrivial ;-)
* [9:24] [[User:Tree Kyomoon|Tree Kyomoon]]: well I guess my load order agenda item wont have time :(
* [9:24] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: Sorry - tree - let's take it next time
* [9:25] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: its the AD part that needs to change substantially, over time, but as a first pass, just estabish the current im srver <=> sim connection between
* the IM server and the AD
* [9:25] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: but in general my main issue is that we should allow for people to add additional protocols if they want to
* [9:25] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: so there is room for experimentation
* [9:25] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: exchange these 2 lines ;-)
* [9:25] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: the general main issue is that we need to have SOMETHING working through the AD, and see where it takes us
* [9:26] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: as a second pass, get the AD talking to multiple IM servrs
* [9:26] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: how is it handled if some agent at AD 1 talks to somebody at AD 2? I guess there needs some inter-AD protocol then for IM
* [9:26] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: Then have them come in via different kind of connections to simulate different protocols
* [9:26] [[User:Goldie Katsu|Goldie Katsu]]: ponders SIP
* [9:27] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: or different AD's talking to different ADs
* [9:27] [[User:Zha Ewry|Zha Ewry]]: SIP merely helps you find each other, in this context
* [9:27] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: and how are groups named?
* [9:27] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: are servers part of hte AD, or merely conected THROUGH the ad... or is that an implementation detail?
* [9:27] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: Gridnauts@secondclife.com ?
* [9:27] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: all of which is addressed while getting the current protocol set up to work with the AD
* [9:27] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: Sai - that would be hard - the viewer desn't have a UDP relationship with the AD
* [9:28] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: we need some lightweight viewer to experiment with
* [9:28] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: that's the only chnge... convert the IIM to the XML-LLSD
* [9:29] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: You've got the client setup to handle all other UDP packets that way, so why not IIM?
* [9:29] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: okay - so imagine that we had provisional_im/improved_instant_message as a resource in both the viewer (accessed via the event queue) and in the
* agent domain (accessed via cap)
* [9:29] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: or is IIM an exc3eption?
* [9:29] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: then, yes, we could build a viewer that did the IM via the agent domain without much work..... methinks
* [9:30] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: "much work" to get all the current functionality (in theory) working, so we can test different designs, trust models for inventory, etc.
* [9:30] [[User:Zero Linden|Zero Linden]]: the format of POSTs to that resource class would mirror the LLSD representation of the current UDP message
* [9:31] [[User:Mug of|Mug of]]: Coffee : Hot strong coffee!!
* [9:31] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: right, not sure if there is an isue with the binary bucket part, but that seems relatively easy to handle, compared to all this "which protocol"
* stuff we have ben arguing
* [9:31] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: I have to get back to work but thanks for the good discussion :)
* [9:31] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: see you at tomorrow's pyogp meeting
* [9:31] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: KK
* [9:32] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn|Saijanai Kuhn]]: hopes to have a closer to working GUI by then
* [9:32] [[User:Tao Takashi|Tao Takashi]]: and I hope to have had time to look at recent changes and the legacy login

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:29, 7 October 2008
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	* [9:32] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn\|Saijanai Kuhn]]: hopes to have a closer to working GUI by then		* [9:32] [[User:Saijanai Kuhn\|Saijanai Kuhn]]: hopes to have a closer to working GUI by then
	* [9:32] [[User:Tao Takashi\|Tao Takashi]]: and I hope to have had time to look at recent changes and the legacy login		* [9:32] [[User:Tao Takashi\|Tao Takashi]]: and I hope to have had time to look at recent changes and the legacy login

			[[Category: Grid Interoperability Chat Logs]]

User:Zero Linden/Office Hours/2008 October 02 - Revision history

Saijanai Kuhn at 21:29, 7 October 2008

Tree Kyomoon: New page: * [8:35] JC Hill: ah bettie bettie thats all folks * [8:35] VoidTraveler Seetan: hello * [8:36] [[User:VoidTraveler Seetan|VoidTraveler Seet...