Mesh/Archive/2011-06-20

Agenda

1. It's been stated before that bone length recognition isn't likely to be in the initial main grid deploy. Why is this, when the lengths look right in the preview window? What has to be done in order for this to appear in-world? (Tiberious)
2. Any news on CTS-590, adding the override to allow "partial" joint-arrays in collada files ? It seems that several exporters 'optimize`collada files by skipping/excluding joints that are not in use (e.g., in 3dsMax I create boots -> the exporter writes only a partial joint array, ignoring torso/arms/... -> as result these weighted meshed can't be uploaded, 'Upload'-button greys out.) (Marielle Caerndow)
3. Update on prim cost. We now see streaming cost is prim cost. How will making the object scripted/physical affect the overall cost? Min stand alone prim cost? Any rough formulas would be helpful. (Gearsawe)
4. ...and, Why is the edit floater final cost 2.5 (and str. cst. 1.5) for meshes with Show Render Info str. cst. < 1, and will it stay that way? [Drongle]
5. Using a texture with any transparent area on it makes the whole object partially seethrough. Also, it won't react to changing shiny. Is this expected behavior? [Ashasekayi Ra]
6. Can you please give us an update on recent progress? [Vivienne Daguerre]
7. Is there anything in particular you need us to test or focus on? [Vivienne Daguerre]
8. Any progress on the crash when trying to upload mesh in Linux (CTS-627)? Are there any flavors of Linux on which mesh uploads are known to work? [Warin Cascabel]
9. Can mesh be temp-rez, and if so, how are they costed? [Drongle]
10. does "working on it" mean, we have a chance to see this in release 1: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/CTS-634 (mesh description file)
11. do we have a documentation area in layman's terms yet? [Eleanora Newell]
12. Has something changed with the avatar .xml file export recently? ive been trying to import an xml. of my avi into maya but can only use the default mesh obj and unlinked skeleton. From menu: develop > avatar > character tests > appearance to xml [Graf Maxwell]

Meeting Notes

Attendees List

• Aimee Arcana (aimee.arcana)
• Angel (angel.alphaville)
• arton Rotaru (arton.rotaru)
• Asha (ashasekayi.ra)
• Charlar Linden (charlar.linden)
• Chodai Yoshikawa (chodai.yoshikawa)
• Dahlia Trimble (dahlia.trimble)
• Dain Shan (dain.shan)
• Don't Release (donot.release)
• Drongle McMahon (drongle.mcmahon)
• Eleanora Newell (eleanora.newell)
• Falcon Linden (falcon.linden)
• Gaia Clary (gaia.clary)
• Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)
• Lazy (lazy.spectre)
• Liisa Runo (liisa.runo)
• Maxwell Graf (maxwell.graf)
• Mikki Miles (mikki.miles)
• Nal (nalates.urriah)
• Nyx Linden (nyx.linden) (User's Wiki Page)
• Prep Linden (prep.linden)
• Python Morales (python.morales) (User's Wiki Page)
• Ranya Palmer (ranya.palmer)
• davep (runitai.linden)
• Rusalka Writer (rusalka.writer)
• Tapple Gao (tapple.gao) (User's Wiki Page)
• Techwolf Lupindo (techwolf.lupindo)
• TheBlack Box (theblack.box) (User's Wiki Page)
• Vir Linden (vir.linden)
• Vivienne Daguerre (vivienne.daguerre)
• Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell)

Transcript for Monday June 20, 2011

[12:02]	Dain Shan	Linden invasion ^^
[12:03]	Nyx Linden	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Content_Creation/Mesh_Import_User_Group
[12:04]	Charlar Linden	sorry, tech issue, brb
[12:04]	Nyx Linden	first topic: It's been stated before that bone length recognition isn't likely to be in the initial main grid deploy. Why is this, when the lengths look right in the preview window? What has to be done in order for this to appear in-world? (Tiberious)
[12:05]	Prep Linden	Yup, unfortunately bone rotations and scale won't be in for release 1. As for why it appears to work in the preview window for you, I can't say either way without
[12:05]	Prep Linden	The good news is that I still have the import bone scale/rotations on my radar for a post 1 release.
[12:06]	Charlar Linden	ok, next?
[12:06]	Charlar Linden	#2 Any news on CTS-590, adding the override to allow "partial" joint-arrays in collada files ? It seems that several exporters 'optimize`collada files by skipping/excluding joints that are not in use (e.g., in 3dsMax I create boots -> the exporter writes only a partial joint array, ignoring torso/arms/... -> as result these weighted meshed can't be uploaded, 'Upload'-button greys out.) (Marielle Caerndow)
[12:06]	Prep Linden	This "partial" flag may longer be needed (positive fallout from another fix :-) ) - so Marielle open up a jira and I'll take a look at it next sprint, or possibly sooner.
[12:07]	Prep Linden	Label the defect something like "Importing a .dae w/ partial joint arrays should work," and attach an asset or reference a jira that contains an asset for me to work with.
[12:08]	Maxwell Graf	hey dahlia.
[12:08]	Dahlia Trimble	hi :)
[12:08]	Nyx Linden	you guys are quiet today :)
[12:08]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	lol
[12:08]	Charlar Linden	the next two we'll talk about together:
[12:08]	Charlar Linden	#3 Update on prim cost. We now see streaming cost is prim cost. How will making the object scripted/physical affect the overall cost? Min stand alone prim cost? Any rough formulas would be helpful. (Gearsawe)
[12:08]	Nyx Linden	http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Mesh/Calculating-quot-Prim-Equivalency-quot/td-p/937343
[12:08]	Drongle McMahon	We are too shocked by the "server weight" calculation.
[12:09]	Dain Shan	Totally
[12:09]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	lol
[12:09]	Nyx Linden	conveniently I added some information to the forums today (see link above)
[12:09]	arton Rotaru	should we still go with streaming cost, or is the server updated now?
[12:09]	Nyx Linden	basically "prim equivalence" is the highest for download, server, and streaming costs. Whichever factor is highest for your linkset, that's what we charge
[12:09]	Drongle McMahon	But Nyx. That bears no relationship to server burden.
[12:10]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	It says the URL doesn't work.
[12:10]	Nyx Linden	which part of it? each measure correlates to some area that our systems get loaded
[12:10]	Drongle McMahon	It's the same panalty for 100 complex scripts as for one simple one.
[12:10]	Nyx Linden	yep, we're not measuring script time/memory usage with it
[12:10]	Charlar Linden	Can everyone other than Asha get to the forum link?
[12:11]	Dain Shan	I can
[12:11]	Chodai Yoshikawa	yes
[12:11]	Aimee Arcana	Yup.
[12:11]	Maxwell Graf	yus
[12:11]	Nyx Linden	its looking only at a very (very) rough measure of how often messages will get sent out to update clients
[12:11]	Gaia Clary	i can
[12:11]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	What the deuce
[12:11]	Drongle McMahon	?Too rough.
[12:11]	Nal (nalates.urriah)	yes
[12:11]	Ranya Palmer	i just got there
[12:11]	Nal (nalates.urriah)	I made it to the page
[12:11]	Charlar Linden	asha, can you just try going to the forum - it'll be near the top
[12:11]	Nyx Linden	we reserve the right to improve our measures in the future :)
[12:11]	Mikki Miles	works for me
[12:11]	Dain Shan	Certainly it gives sometimes some weired end results
[12:12]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	Sure, I can try
[12:12]	Maxwell Graf	< Plurked
[12:12]	arton Rotaru	changing prim counts after main grid release can be probleematic
[12:12]	Vivienne Daguerre	I really don't think that scripts should add to the prim cost. If you are wanting to put some control on script numbers and memory use, you should find another way to do that. Scripts should not affect prim equivalency.
[12:12]	Vivienne Daguerre	People will object to this.
[12:12]	Chodai Yoshikawa	Side note on that Nyx, Do the current numbers inthe EDIT panel represent cost now or is it still streamin cost display?
[12:13]	arton Rotaru	+1 chodai
[12:13]	Nyx Linden	scripted and physical objects send out more messages, so they cost more for Server cost. If your object has a higher streaming cost, it won't have an effect
[12:13]	Nyx Linden	the streaming cost displays should be reaching parity soonish
[12:13]	Drongle McMahon	I am adamantly opposed. It is not proportionate and you should be using script limnits anyway. Why penalise meshes discriminatey yet again?
[12:13]	Ranya Palmer	so whats the limit on a physical mesh cost?
[12:13]	Vivienne Daguerre	will the scripts affect objects made of sculpties and ordinary prims? Will this break existing content?
[12:14]	Vivienne Daguerre	Or increase the prim count?
[12:14]	Gaia Clary	can you explain how you will convince people to use mesh objects when you let them pay pay pay... and keep the costst for regular prims/sculpties down at the same time ?
[12:14]	Nyx Linden	please note the detailed documentation here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mesh/Costs_and_fees
[12:14]	Drongle McMahon	Vivienne. In some caes it can double prim coint.
[12:14]	Maxwell Graf	but its NEW!
[12:14]	Nyx Linden	I'm pretty clear in which cases the new calculations will be used in the forum post :)
[12:14]	Maxwell Graf	:D
[12:15]	Rusalka Writer	You're gonna need a lot more ponies.
[12:15]	Nyx Linden	more ponies are always needed :)
[12:15]	Rusalka Writer	One for everyone on SL now.
[12:15]	Chodai Yoshikawa	Nyx::: Does that mean the EDIT window is the one to look at now over the streaming stats?
[12:16]	Drongle McMahon	But not a scripted mesh pony....you can't afford it.
[12:16]	Rusalka Writer	I don't have enough land for an SL pony.
[12:16]	Nyx Linden	Chodai we should be getting the cost in edit tools to agree with the viewer tools soon
[12:16]	Gaia Clary	i just think about the difference... i understand what you describe in your forum post.... but wouldnt this lead people to try even harder to get away with sculpties instead of moving to mesh ?
[12:16]	Dain Shan	You realise that, with this, you put Meshes into a niche?
[12:17]	Rusalka Writer	A pricey niche.
[12:17]	Nyx Linden	we're working to set the cost of mesh to be a resonable limit based on where the content is loading our systems (and your systems)
[12:17]	Maxwell Graf	I am currently a sculpty whore. I would like also to be a mesh whore. Why u no make less cost! D:
[12:17]	Drongle McMahon	Already in a niche. It just got narrower.
[12:17]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	/me chuckles at Max
[12:17]	Rusalka Writer	Think I'll be focusing on avatars...
[12:17]	TheBlack Box	maybe it is not such a bad idea to have mesh in a niche while there is still a lot of dev going on ... i recommend patience
[12:17]	Gaia Clary	but io do not understand how you can say that....
[12:18]	Gaia Clary	making mesh more expensive and less resource intensive...
[12:18]	Vivienne Daguerre	would you prefer me to be a mesh whore or a sculptie whore? I can see that I am going to be using sculpties as much as I can the way things are going, over mesh.
[12:18]	Gaia Clary	that does not get into my head.
[12:18]	Drongle McMahon	I made a sculpty building component that was 20 x as may triangles as the mesh equivalent but half the prim cost.
[12:18]	Dain Shan	Agree with Clary here
[12:18]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	Not sure what patience has to do with that issue.
[12:18]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	I use whatever is best suited for the task at hand
[12:19]	TheBlack Box	Ashasekayi: patience because it will be easier to lower prim-costs for mesh when they are technically more mature ...
[12:20]	Drongle McMahon	Who, TheBlack?
[12:20]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	There is no guarentee the numbers will be changed after it goes live.
[12:20]	Nyx Linden	in the interest of keeping things moving along, can we move this conversation to the forum thread for everyone to participate?
[12:20]	Dahlia Trimble	lower? lol
[12:20]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	I worry that if people can upload really really high res meshes what it will do whenthey wear them all on the avatar in crowded situations. So I am cautiously optimistic
[12:20]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	I haven't seen a Linden state that will even occur.
[12:20]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	if it is too cheap it is sure that will happen
[12:20]	Drongle McMahon	Who will make the first meshbot?
[12:21]	Charlar Linden	OK, moving to the next item...
[12:21]	Dain Shan	Hypatia .. they already can do that. You can make attachments that are Super heavy .. with no downside.
[12:21]	Charlar Linden	Using a texture with any transparent area on it makes the whole object partially seethrough. Also, it won't react to changing shiny. Is this expected behavior? [Ashasekayi Ra]
[12:21]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	The numbers penalize non-attached mesh more anyway.
[12:21]	davep (runitai.linden)	Yes, using a transparent texture will make the entire face transparent unless it's an alpha mask (pixels are all transparent or all opaque) and "automatic alpha masks" is enabled.
[12:22]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	Hmm... ok. And, this will not change correct?
[12:22]	Ranya Palmer	is automatic alpha mask a viewer feature?
[12:22]	arton Rotaru	add more materials Asha
[12:22]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	yes Ranya
[12:23]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	Yea, I guess I'll have to do that.
[12:23]	Drongle McMahon	It needs to be a face feature.
[12:23]	davep (runitai.linden)	Asha: yes, it's under develop->rendering
[12:24]	davep (runitai.linden)	it does need to be a face feature, probably will be in "the future"
[12:24]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	Alrighty thanks
[12:24]	Charlar Linden	ok, next item:
[12:24]	Charlar Linden	Can you please give us an update on recent progress? [Vivienne Daguerre]
[12:24]	Nyx Linden	been working on making sure the framework for prim equivalency is working. Next up is tweaking the algorithms to make sure they fit our budgets
[12:24]	Dahlia Trimble	speaking of alpha masking... are all the shaders in the mesh viewer finalized and considered ready for release?
[12:24]	davep (runitai.linden)	Streaming cost got tuned a bit and tested -- there are still some cases where items can go over budget, but for those most part the costs seem to be trending the right way. The sim should agree with the viewer on the next sim deploy.
[12:26]	davep (runitai.linden)	Dahlia: yes
[12:26]	Tapple Gao	hi elanora. can you hear?
[12:26]	Dahlia Trimble	ty
[12:26]	arton Rotaru	what about a physics cost shown in the uploader?
[12:26]	davep (runitai.linden)	(although a huge osx bug just got found and fixed this morning
[12:27]	Rusalka Writer	Thank you.
[12:27]	Nyx Linden	we're working on a new layout for build tools to show you physics cost better, we're investigating what to show in the uploader.
[12:27]	Chodai Yoshikawa	/me ears prick up on the OSX bug being found and wonders what it was
[12:27]	arton Rotaru	kmthx
[12:27]	Tapple Gao	osx bug? elenora was unable to login on mac
[12:27]	Rusalka Writer	I've been crashing as much as I can.
[12:28]	Ranya Palmer	has the nvidia bug been fixed yet?
[12:28]	arton Rotaru	crash bug in latest windows build too
[12:28]	davep (runitai.linden)	keep crashing!
[12:28]	davep (runitai.linden)	turn on debug gl to crash more!
[12:28]	Rusalka Writer	Tally ho!
[12:28]	davep (runitai.linden)	develop->rendering->debug gl
[12:28]	Rusalka Writer	Writing it down...
[12:28]	arton Rotaru	all meshes needs UVs now
[12:28]	Nyx Linden	oh also working on the linux crash, but that's its own topic :)
[12:28]	arton Rotaru	or viewer crashes
[12:28]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell)	when I check shadow, I can't see upload dialog.
[12:28]	davep (runitai.linden)	arton: e-mail me a .dae that has no UVs and I'll make it work
[12:28]	Rusalka Writer	As soon as I get out of this conference, I'll get back to crashing.
[12:28]	arton Rotaru	I jira it already
[12:29]	davep (runitai.linden)	link?
[12:29]	arton Rotaru	second
[12:29]	Gaia Clary	donotrelease : i have sent a jira for this...
[12:29]	davep (runitai.linden)	DoNot Release: that bug is assigned to me, should get to it this week
[12:29]	Ranya Palmer	i saw that earlier then i crashed
[12:29]	Vivienne Daguerre	as have I
[12:29]	arton Rotaru	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/CTS-648
[12:29]	Gaia Clary	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/CTS-636
[12:29]	Drongle McMahon	Davep, can I email you one with no UV or normals? It used to upload OK.
[12:29]	Nyx Linden	we <3 example assets that are causing problems :)
[12:30]	Rusalka Writer	I crash on texture upload sometimes. I'll sort that out.
[12:30]	Maxwell Graf	Ill send you a .rar. of them, then. lol
[12:30]	Chodai Yoshikawa	when I check shadows the Mac crashes :(((((
[12:30]	arton Rotaru	I attached example dae's
[12:30]	Drongle McMahon	Looked funny though.
[12:30]	Angel (angel.alphaville)	I also uploaded files with 8 materials exported from Maya
[12:30]	Rusalka Writer	I have shadows on the main grid on the new Search viewer now. That's a pleasant surprise on a Mac.
[12:31]	Charlar Linden	continuing on...
[12:31]	Charlar Linden	Is there anything in particular you need us to test or focus on? [Vivienne Daguerre]
[12:31]	davep (runitai.linden)	upload upload upload
[12:31]	davep (runitai.linden)	also, please build at or near ground level
[12:31]	davep (runitai.linden)	and leave your stuff rezzed
[12:31]	davep (runitai.linden)	so we can find it
[12:31]	Python Morales	davep, to test physics with terrain?
[12:31]	Nyx Linden	populate a bunch of content on the regions, the more the better
[12:31]	Python Morales	ah ust to find
[12:31]	Gaia Clary	please fix the physics display ;_)
[12:31]	davep (runitai.linden)	should be fixed :-(
[12:31]	Chodai Yoshikawa	+1 Gaia
[12:32]	arton Rotaru	fix the physics engine aswell
[12:32]	Drongle McMahon	I'm going to fill a region with sculpty pipes.
[12:32]	Chodai Yoshikawa	but you need shadows to use it...broken on macs in mesh builds
[12:32]	arton Rotaru	can't drive on mesh/prim roads
[12:32]	Nyx Linden	Gaia - probably later this week
[12:32]	davep (runitai.linden)	shouldn't need shadows any more
[12:32]	Chodai Yoshikawa	ahhh good :)
[12:32]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	shadows are broken for me too
[12:32]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	and I'm not on mac
[12:32]	davep (runitai.linden)	but could be busted with other mac shader issues
[12:32]	Angel (angel.alphaville)	please also give them meshes with jumbled materials, I posted a link to one at CTS-603
[12:32]	Ranya Palmer	shadows made me crash :(
[12:33]	Dain Shan	Allright
[12:33]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	just ATI, win 7 here
[12:33]	Rusalka Writer	Shadows sure are purty on main grid.
[12:33]	Dain Shan	My old 9800GT seems to like the shadows ... So far no crash
[12:33]	davep (runitai.linden)	yup, working on jumbled materials this week
[12:33]	Ranya Palmer	Win 7 Nvidia GTX here
[12:34]	Charlar Linden	next item...
[12:34]	Charlar Linden	#8 Any progress on the crash when trying to upload mesh in Linux (CTS-627)? Are there any flavors of Linux on which mesh uploads are known to work? [Warin Cascabel]
[12:34]	davep (runitai.linden)	if you get black screen or crash, try disabling anti-aliasing
[12:34]	Nyx Linden	just posted an update on the linux crasher recently. Its a versioning issue on libxml2
[12:34]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	okay
[12:34]	Nyx Linden	if you update libxml2 on your machine to 2.7.2 its reported to be fixed
[12:34]	Nyx Linden	if we can confirm this, we'll try to bundle a staticly linked version so you don't have to change your system config
[12:35]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	oh now it works
[12:35]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	goes to remove my question then
[12:35]	Tapple Gao	upload works for me on ubuntu. I can post my config to the jira
[12:35]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	hrm, no
[12:35]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	still no shadows
[12:36]	Charlar Linden	next item...
[12:36]	Nyx Linden	Tapple - could you post that it works for you and what version of libxml2 you have on your system please
[12:36]	TheBlack Box	on ubuntu libxml2 version currently shows up at 2.7.6
[12:36]	Tapple Gao	how do I test the version of libxml2? the version apt lists?
[12:36]	Nyx Linden	TheBlackBox - can you upload without crashing?
[12:36]	TheBlack Box	havent tsted in a while ...
[12:36]	Charlar Linden	#9 Can mesh be temp-rez, and if so, how are they costed? [Drongle]
[12:37]	arton Rotaru	good question
[12:37]	arton Rotaru	temp rezzers will be hip when mesh is live
[12:37]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	okay fixed :)
[12:37]	davep (runitai.linden)	yes, and they're costed the same as regular mesh
[12:37]	davep (runitai.linden)	specifically to protect against auto-rezzers
[12:38]	arton Rotaru	:p
[12:38]	Drongle McMahon	Against the parcel count, or like other temp-rez prims?
[12:38]	davep (runitai.linden)	I believe it's against the parcel count
[12:38]	arton Rotaru	hmhmhmhm
[12:38]	Drongle McMahon	ha. More anti-mesh discrimination :-(
[12:38]	arton Rotaru	one more negative for mesh
[12:38]	arton Rotaru	yeah
[12:39]	arton Rotaru	to much
[12:39]	TheBlack Box	just crashed when "Cancel" on mesh-upload .... dont have mesh-assetts to test on the machine atm
[12:39]	Dain Shan	Thats .... discouraging somehow
[12:39]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	Good grief
[12:39]	arton Rotaru	it#s way to complicated for an user created world
[12:39]	Liisa Runo	we often set vehicles temp after sitting, so we can travel trough full parcels. This will be a problem with mesh vehicles
[12:40]	Drongle McMahon	hey, why not cost mesh attachments against parcel count.? That will kill it off completely.
[12:40]	Rusalka Writer	Lol.
[12:40]	arton Rotaru	heh
[12:40]	Lazy (lazy.spectre)	everything except wearing a mesh seems to be a problem:(
[12:40]	Maxwell Graf	lolz
[12:40]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	/me snirts
[12:40]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	*snorts too
[12:40]	Techwolf Lupindo	I can see marketplace ads now, "All prims, no mesh!!"
[12:40]	Charlar Linden	i like snirt
[12:40]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	the wearing a mesh is what concerns me the most, too lol
[12:40]	arton Rotaru	lol
[12:40]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	lol
[12:40]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	the primcount on a parcel controls land use pretty well
[12:40]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	but nothing liket hat exists for avatars
[12:41]	Rusalka Writer	Is this where I ask about ARC?
[12:41]	Chodai Yoshikawa	hmm yes what is the ARC cost for mesh goping to be?
[12:41]	Chodai Yoshikawa	snap :)
[12:41]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	grin
[12:41]	Nyx Linden	Going to be updating the ARC algorithm after the first release :)
[12:41]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	but arc is just a number people ignore :P
[12:41]	Rusalka Writer	The ARC is a number nobody knows exists.
[12:41]	arton Rotaru	true
[12:42]	Dahlia Trimble	ARC is a number people use to harass others
[12:42]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	sometimes, yeah... but mostly its just ignored
[12:42]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	A number that many people don't know how to read properly.
[12:42]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	and arc isnt everything, scripts are just as much an issue
[12:42]	arton Rotaru	can we have ARC for static mesh instead of prim count :p
[12:42]	Tapple Gao	will avatars be able to use as much mesh as possible?
[12:42]	Rusalka Writer	Most don't even have its menu displayed.
[12:43]	Rusalka Writer	Meshzilla!
[12:43]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	most people dont know, dont care about arc
[12:43]	Maxwell Graf	im cruuushing yor sim! *pinches fingers together*
[12:43]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	:D
[12:43]	Charlar Linden	Ok, next...
[12:43]	Charlar Linden	#10 Deferred rendering: not working on ATI in latest builds. Any ETA on a fix? Is there a Jira page for it, I cannot find it. [Hypatia Callisto]
[12:44]	davep (runitai.linden)	what operating system?
[12:44]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	I removed it
[12:44]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	I realised the problem now
[12:44]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	its win7
[12:44]	davep (runitai.linden)	ok, nm
[12:44]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	it was the antialiasing being on by default
[12:44]	davep (runitai.linden)	yeah, I should have it behaving better sometime soon
[12:45]	Charlar Linden	ok then
[12:45]	Charlar Linden	Next:
[12:45]	davep (runitai.linden)	handling GL_OUT_OF_MEMORY is.... tricky
[12:45]	Charlar Linden	#11 does "working on it" mean, we have a chance to see this in release 1: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/CTS-634 (mesh description file)
[12:45]	Nyx Linden	we save out the upload parameters to a "slm" file which should be 90% of what you're asking for :)
[12:45]	davep (runitai.linden)	in general, yes
[12:45]	Gaia Clary	no
[12:45]	Gaia Clary	lol
[12:45]	Nyx Linden	yes we know its not human-readable :P
[12:45]	Gaia Clary	nyx, i am asking for a third party integration ....
[12:45]	arton Rotaru	decomposed physics meshes won't load by .slm
[12:46]	Angel (angel.alphaville)	by the way, how can we use these parameters to upload another mesh ?
[12:46]	davep (runitai.linden)	arton: that's a bug, slm should be working adequately by first release
[12:46]	Gaia Clary	the and slm reacts quite interesting when some of the input files change...
[12:46]	davep (runitai.linden)	we really need to document the .slm format
[12:46]	arton Rotaru	ok cool
[12:46]	Nyx Linden	the slm should load the input parameters by default on loading the same dae file. We're still working on testing it
[12:46]	Angel (angel.alphaville)	ok we'll wait :B
[12:47]	arton Rotaru	it must be enabbled in Debug settings, to use slm
[12:47]	Nyx Linden	as far as documenting the format and allowing third party tools to generate it, that won't be for release 1.
[12:47]	arton Rotaru	it's set to False by defaukt
[12:47]	arton Rotaru	-k, +l
[12:47]	Gaia Clary	it would realy help to get an XML format for integration purpoases...
[12:47]	Gaia Clary	well...
[12:48]	Nyx Linden	noted, but not a priority. we won't block the release to change the slm format to xml :/
[12:48]	Gaia Clary	sure
[12:48]	Gaia Clary	no complains if it will come one day ;-) this year
[12:48]	Charlar Linden	super - ready to move on?
[12:48]	Charlar Linden	#11 do we have a documentation area in layman's terms yet? [Eleanora Newell]
[12:50]	Nyx Linden	Jeremy is working on documentation - we have a forum thread for documentation requests :)
[12:51]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell)	Please give us the url about it.
[12:51]	Nyx Linden	searching....just a sec
[12:51]	Falcon Linden	I was thinking about writing a description of the physics mesh cost algorithm using LaTeX to make the hypercomplex logarithms and exponents look prettier. Does that count? :P
[12:51]	Tapple Gao	I have documentation for rigging in blender I intend to put on the wiki. maybe will sooner rather than later
[12:52]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	No Falcon :p
[12:52]	Falcon Linden	oh.
[12:52]	Falcon Linden	:P
[12:52]	Ranya Palmer	hehehe
[12:52]	Charlar Linden	next (and final) item:
[12:52]	Nyx Linden	http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Mesh/Mesh-Documentation-Requests/
[12:52]	Drongle McMahon	Falcon, you shouldn'u use 2 differen "H" so it's easier to write/read,
[12:52]	Charlar Linden	#12 Has something changed with the avatar .xml file export recently? ive been trying to import an xml. of my avi into maya but can only use the default mesh obj and unlinked skeleton. From menu: develop > avatar > character tests > appearance to xml [Graf Maxwell]
[12:52]	Nyx Linden	not that I'm aware of....
[12:52]	Nyx Linden	probably nothing recent
[12:53]	Maxwell Graf	the wiz daxter plugin will no longer function, for me and several others ive spoken to.
[12:53]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	Are you using Daxter's tool Max?
[12:53]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	nvm :D
[12:53]	Chodai Yoshikawa	Nyx :: Page not found on that link
[12:53]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell)	Thank you Nyx. But it shows "Page Not Found."
[12:53]	Dain Shan	+1 on that
[12:53]	Drongle McMahon	No....sorry, that's two differen "V"s.
[12:53]	Maxwell Graf	he even worked with me to get it working, and it wouldnt.
[12:54]	Nyx Linden	sec
[12:54]	Nyx Linden	http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Mesh/Mesh-Documentation-Requests/m-p/914193/highlight/true#M1403
[12:54]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	Are you exporting the XML from the official V2 viewer?
[12:54]	Maxwell Graf	on that note, if anyone here could help me with SL avi/maya rigging, I would pay well. Xeniversity is full up till about next year. lol
[12:55]	Maxwell Graf	yes, from v2.
[12:55]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	I haven't had an issue with the ones exported from Phoenix.
[12:55]	Maxwell Graf	the files from: develop > avatar > character tests > appearance to xml no longer seem to work.
[12:56]	Nyx Linden	could you get us two versions of the same avatar, one which "works" and one that "doesn't" ?
[12:56]	Gaia Clary	Maxwell, as Ashe says... phoenix allows to download the avatar as.obj ...
[12:56]	Dain Shan	Agree i tried that export too and it definately dosent work
[12:56]	Maxwell Graf	yes, but the obj is not rigged.
[12:56]	Maxwell Graf	thats my issue.
[12:56]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	No Gaia.. I mean the actual xml file.
[12:56]	Gaia Clary	oh... ok
[12:57]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	I did it last week without issue. I'll have to do it again later to see if something changed.
[12:57]	Nyx Linden	could you guys get me some more detail on how its broken?
[12:57]	Maxwell Graf	using the xml will allow for exporting multiple shapes and gender, not just default female.
[12:57]	Nyx Linden	(create a jira or forum thread please)
[12:57]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	I can send you a working one Nyx if you like.
[12:57]	Dain Shan	Well it used to be that way
[12:58]	Maxwell Graf	thank you asha
[12:58]	Nyx Linden	Asha - if you could send me two - one working one non, of the same avatar that would be helpful
[12:58]	arton Rotaru	quick question
[12:58]	arton Rotaru	Falcon: What's wrong with the physics engine. Prim mesh/prim roads are very bumpy on the latest servers
[12:58]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	Hmm... I don't have a non-workng one though. Perhaps, Max could send that?
[12:59]	Chodai Yoshikawa	surely your Landy can cope with a few bumps Arton? :P
[12:59]	Nyx Linden	the latest mesh client creates a working xml file for you Asha?
[12:59]	arton Rotaru	yeah, lol
[12:59]	Gaia Clary	i wonder... is there a way to import that xml file to blender ?
[12:59]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	I haven't tried that viewer. I'll give it a go later then make a thread with the results
[12:59]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	Yes Gaia.
[12:59]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	That how I make my clothes.
[12:59]	Chodai Yoshikawa	yes Gaia...write some Pyhton :)
[13:00]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	*That's
[13:00]	Gaia Clary	Asha, what tool do you use ?
[13:00]	Maxwell Graf	should work the same, though ive had some others tell me they had the same problem this week with the xml to blender.
[13:00]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	Wiz Daxter's addon Gaia
[13:00]	Gaia Clary	ah, ok.
[13:00]	Eleanora Newell	for those of us who can't script, is there anything already available for what gaia asks?
[13:00]	Charlar Linden	ok, I think we're wrapped for the week.
[13:01]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	Yep... it is on the marketplace
[13:01]	Eleanora Newell	thanks, ash
[13:01]	Maxwell Graf	jass 2.7 ships with a file called avatar.blend thats rigged, also.
[13:01]	Python Morales	maxwell, so which xml is this actually?
[13:01]	Falcon Linden	Ciao, folks
[13:01]	davep (runitai.linden)	thanks guys, keep building cool shit
[13:01]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	Adios Lindens
[13:01]	Vir Linden	bye all
[13:01]	Nyx Linden	gotta run, thanks for coming everyone :)
[13:01]	Charlar Linden	thanks everyoone, please visit and comment on the forums on these topics.
[13:01]	Nyx Linden	upload moar meshes!
[13:01]	Charlar Linden	Cheers
[13:01]	Eleanora Newell	thanks, everyone
[13:01]	arton Rotaru	bye
[13:01]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell)	see you next week!
[13:01]	Dain Shan	Byeee
[13:01]	Ranya Palmer	bye guys
[13:01]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	The plus is that you don't have to download the obj files one by one.
[13:01]	TheBlack Box	tc all .. thanks for the OH
[13:02]	Maxwell Graf	if you enable develop menu, its develop > avatar > character tests > appearance to xml.
[13:02]	Maxwell Graf	its saves a file to your SL viewer > character folder
[13:02]	Maxwell Graf	the name of the file will be " avatar_name.xml
[13:02]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	So, it brings in your custom shape along with the skeleton in one shot.
[13:02]	Maxwell Graf	myes
[13:02]	Maxwell Graf	or should.
[13:02]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell)	What is the copyright of except default avatar?
[13:03]	Maxwell Graf	i imagine you have to have a shape you have made, or one with full perms.
[13:03]	Maxwell Graf	using the xml is the tricky part, and where im having issues.
[13:03]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	so it works with the old viewer right, learn something new
[13:03]	Maxwell Graf	you have to have a plugin or script which lets you import the xml.

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