Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2010-06-03

This meeting was held on June 06th, 2010

Agenda

• Discuss resolution of previous open items.
• Updates
  • Oskar is on a plane to Singapore.
    • Milo and Monty are in charge. Be nice to them.
• Releases
• Any other business
  • SVC-5880
  • what you want to talk about goes here.

Transcript

Transcript of Oskar Linden's Beta Server Office Hour for June 06th, 2010:

• [15:02] Linden: hey: everyone
• [15:02] Nakamichi: Hi: Milo, Monty, Maestro
• [15:02] Merlin: Yes,: I have Snark over here
• [15:02] Carter: heya:
• [15:02] Linden: hi: guys
• [15:03] Khalifa: heya:
• [15:03] Mayo: Hi,: too!
• [15:03] Nakamichi: I: think I found a bug with the current production server
• [15:03] Linden: hello,: peoples
• [15:03] Nakamichi: regarding: autoreturn
• [15:03] Nakamichi: If: you create a role and switch on the 'return non-group objects' ability (only that one)
• [15:03] Obscure: hello: everybody !
• [15:03] Khalifa: did: GetTextur cap got disabled on purpose, problems with it?
• [15:03] Merlin: Hi: Lindens - three at once, just like buses
• [15:03] Obscure: simon: linden is coming as well
• [15:03] Linden: https//wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Beta_Server_Office_Hours:
• [15:03] Nakamichi: then: people with only that role can change the autoreturn time on group-owned land
• [15:04] Nakamichi: which: they shouldnt be able to do
• [15:04] Lupindo: This: is a good example of prim litter. :-)
• [15:04] Nakamichi: only: happens on group-owned parcels
• [15:04] Nakamichi: but: it's out there
• [15:04] Nakamichi: on: main
• [15:04] Nakamichi: right: now
• [15:05] Linden: yes: latif gettexture is currently disabled whilst the viewer people work on stability fixes for it
• [15:05] Merlin: I: can asyly to setup a test here - snark is group owned.
• [15:05] Linden: Latif: we disabled GetTexture because the current release viewer (2.0.1) doesn't play well with it. I figure we'll enable it.. what milo said =P
• [15:05] Merlin: Hi: Simon
• [15:05] Linden: Hello:
• [15:05] Nakamichi: cool: - let's test it Psi
• [15:05] Nakamichi: I: tested on main
• [15:05] Nakamichi: Hi: Simon
• [15:06] Linden: Yuu,: have you jira'd that?
• [15:06] Flora: Hello: all
• [15:06] Nakamichi: not: yet Monty
• [15:06] Nakamichi: I: want to confirm again
• [15:06] Linden: Latif: what milo said.
• [15:06] Nakamichi: I: think I've seen it on 1..38.2
• [15:06] Nakamichi: but: it seemed to go away with 1.38.4
• [15:06] Nakamichi: and: back with 1.38.6
• [15:06] Flora: Anyone: seen the rotation bug sith Vehicles - they move with nose in the air?
• [15:07] Linden: We: do have a fix in for SVC-5880
• [15:07] [[User:Helper: [#SVC-5880|Helper: [#SVC-5880]]:
• http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/svc-5880
• [15:07] Dwi: \o/:
• [15:07] Carter: yay: =)
• [15:07] Linden: yeah,: agreed, nasty
• [15:08] Flora: It: appears to be fixed in some region and not in other. On save Server version
• [15:08] Flora: same: server version
• [15:08] Linden: And: those *ancient* problems having to do with seams are
• [15:08] Linden: going: to get looked at.
• [15:08] Linden: But: the vehicle physics could probably use some aggressive pushing.
• [15:08] Nakamichi: sorry: Psi, can you try again?
• [15:08] Linden: Break: it!
• [15:08] Flora: 5880: is present in Jaxx Island - very nasty. But its not in one of the Oatmeal sims
• [15:09] Nakamichi: I: had to leave a couple of groups first
• [15:09] Dwi: are: those fixes live now?
• [15:09] Mayo: ONly: in vehicle system objects?
• [15:09] Linden: They: should have been pushed to *most* of aditi though I haven't checked how
• [15:09] Linden: cleanly: we've pushed.
• [15:10] Khalifa: Maestro,: http textures are disabled in viewer 2.0.1 by default so tht should't be a big issue :)
• [15:10] Flora: Monty,: has the fix that Falcon was working on been pushed to all regions?
• [15:10] Linden: not: yet i dont think
• [15:10] Linden: if: not will get a reroll later today.tomorrow am
• [15:11] Linden: Latif: yeah, that's true...
• [15:11] Dwi: ack: holy guesture flood
• [15:11] Mayo: is: that prim edge fix going to apply to ALL physical objects, or just ones using the vehicle system?
• [15:11] Carter: whats: up with SVC-5411? is that going to be fixed in any server version soonish?
• [15:11] Khalifa: plus: you get many more people to work on fixes (i know snowglobe peeps are working on it)
• [15:11] [[User:Helper: [#SVC-5411|Helper: [#SVC-5411]]:
• http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/svc-5411?
• [15:11] Flora: According: to Andrew, Falcon may havea fix for the 5880/fins/ bouncing bug. But we cannot tell if its a fix until we know if its been deployed
• [15:12] Linden: some: oatmeal's are old
• [15:12] Linden: oatmeals: 6, 7, 10 and 11 should be the same as jaxx island
• [15:12] Flora: We: need input from Falcon
• [15:13] Linden: 13: 14 9 are 1.38
• [15:13] Flora: Jaxx: is at 1.40, and so was the Oatmeal I tested. Both same 1.40 version. But they behave differently
• [15:14] Linden: Moundsa,: I think vehicles only from the diff I saw. Simon may know better.
• [15:14] Khalifa: i: the plan to test roll on agni next week?
• [15:14] Khalifa: is*:
• [15:14] Mayo: Thx,: Monty
• [15:14] Linden: (Warning,: storm here in Boston, I may get disconnected....)
• [15:14] Flora: Anyone: testing pure Dynamics 'vehicles' ?
• [15:14] Linden: Lares: I haven't seen any movement to fix SVC-54111 yet, but we do have a good test case to verify a future fix, at least.
• [15:14] Helper: Issue: does not exist... try again, Maestro Linden
• [15:14] Mayo: Well,: rolling balls do that hip-hop!
• [15:15] Linden: er: SVC-5411
• [15:15] [[User:Helper: [#SVC-5411|Helper: [#SVC-5411]]:
• http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/svc-5411
• [15:16] Carter: is: it complex to fix? is there some linden i could IM to get him to fix it? i know this is a big annoyance for a lot of SL users i have talked to.
• [15:16] Flora: rolling: balls are simple physics. The fin bug, when it was observed in H4 had nothing to do with what propelled the moving object
• [15:17] Linden: I'm: not sure how difficult it is to fix
• [15:17] Mayo: So: 5880 applies to simple physics objects, too.
• [15:17] Linden: yeah,: I know Andrew worked on a similar problem with Havok 4 ... it has to do with the collision normal calculations near the object edge
• [15:17] Flora: You: have the balls, Mayo. What do you see?
• [15:17] Linden: which: is the fin bug, btw?
• [15:18] Linden: I: would _guess_ it would apply to regular objects as well as vehicles
• [15:18] Flora: fin: bug is presently called 5880
• [15:18] Linden: If: you go along a road, for example, there are odd jumps at the junction between the objects
• [15:18] Linden: Ah,: didn't know it got the 'fin' name.
• [15:19] Mayo: troughs: not linked
• [15:19] Linden: We: end up getting collisions with object faces that we shouldn't
• [15:19] Linden: thought: it was much, much older
• [15:19] Mayo: 2006,: for instance
• [15:19] Flora: 'fin': is the thing which the 'collision normal calculations near the object edge' simulates. It makes 90-degree angled objects appear to have fins on the edges (from collision pov)
• [15:19] Hello, Avatar!:
• [15:20] Flora: Montty: - the fin problem is old., It showed up in H4, was never fixed and brok a lot of content
• [15:20] Flora: H7: appears to have it worse.
• [15:21] Hello, Avatar!:
• [15:21] Mayo: 1213,: 2006, 5880, all would seem related
• [15:23] Linden: from: what i can see the fix for 5880 was in the vehicle code, not sure it will affect other objects
• [15:23] Linden: nice: bug reporting on 2006
• [15:23] Linden: going: to have that fix deployed soon after this meeting
• [15:23] Linden: I: chatted with falcon about 1213 and he thought it separate from 5880
• [15:23] Linden: there's: a lot of that in the code, however...
• [15:24] Flora: Then...: we await the sim code update :)
• [15:24] Linden: I: wish we had the blasted fixes up on aditi, I really thought they were here
• [15:24] Linden: I: want to know how they physics is behaving now relative to 1.38
• [15:25] Linden: And: I *think* we have all the new crashers fixed.
• [15:25] Linden: But: not deployed yet.
• [15:25] Flora: 1.40.0.205454: otherwise is working ok, except for SVC-5889
• [15:26] [[User:Helper: [#SVC-5889|Helper: [#SVC-5889]]:
• http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/svc-5889
• [15:26] Flora: Clicks: seem to be fixed (touch transmission daughter/root)
• [15:27] Linden: Okay,: informal poll:
• [15:27] Linden: Does: it feel better, worse, same from 1.38?
• [15:27] Linden: physics: + crashers
• [15:27] Linden: (no: lag comments)
• [15:27] Linden: go!:
• [15:27] Constantine: Same:
• [15:28] Flora: same:
• [15:28] Mayo: Better,: since the interpenetration defect has apparently been repaired.
• [15:28] Dwi: same:
• [15:28] Mayo: Otherwise: cannot detect any differnce
• [15:29] Lupindo: What: little time I played on 1.40, same except for http texture tranfer that got shut off.
• [15:30] Linden: Okay,: that's our baseline level, I guess. Thanks.
• [15:30] Constantine: Wait: HTTP textures were turned off too?
• [15:30] Linden: Yeah,: viewer isn't ready.
• [15:30] Linden: What: we'll do is get a full set of monitoring going on before and after
• [15:30] Khalifa: please: turn them back on, it's just a dev setting
• [15:31] Lupindo: Viewer: defaults to http off, why kill it on server side?
• [15:31] Linden: and: really understand how things progress as we enable it.
• [15:32] Linden: But: http textures will get there.
• [15:32] Linden: Just: not 1.40
• [15:32] Constantine: Obvious: question: When?
• [15:32] Lupindo: How: can the open source group fix the bugs in the client if the http texttuew transfer is killed?
• [15:33] Khalifa: that's: what they told us about uploadbakedtexure and webfetchinventorydescendants two years ago :P
• [15:33] Khalifa: once: a cap gets disabled, it rarely comes back ;)
• [15:33] Linden: hehehe:
• [15:33] Linden: I: know.... *sigh*
• [15:34] Linden: However,: Oz Linden sits right next to me and he's serious about representing the opensource-dev people.
• [15:34] Constantine: So: the big 2 lag reducers of 1.40 (region crossing and http textures) are gone?
• [15:34] Constantine: So: when will we get those
• [15:34] Linden: The: fix for uploadbakedtextures is in the works, fwiw. Hopefully 1.42
• [15:34] Linden: region: crossing was never a lag reducer.
• [15:34] Linden: It: moved bits of processing around.
• [15:35] Khalifa: Monty,: region crossings (and teleports in) is the major cause of lag
• [15:35] Khalifa: avatar: rezzing in sim can freeze it tottally for up to a minute
• [15:35] Linden: oh,: I know that.
• [15:36] Flora: Latif: does the lag depend on the script load carried by the Avatar?
• [15:36] Linden: But: that's a bigger problem than what was originally going into 1.40
• [15:36] Khalifa: i: was just commentng on crossings not being cause of lag ;)
• [15:36] Linden: np:
• [15:37] Linden: they: are, *no one* here would argue they aren't
• [15:37] Linden: they: stink
• [15:37] Linden: (Really,: why can't you all just stay in one place? It would be so much easier!)
• [15:37] Linden: ):
• [15:38] UgglaGooden Uggla: *blink blink*
• [15:38] Khalifa: it's: a difficult problem to solve, i understand, but at least not everyone in the target sim shouldn't be affected by someone coming in
• [15:38] Flora: Someone: should study how region crossings were done in 2005, and go back to that method.
• [15:38] Linden: Anyway,: Oz really is starting to look after the open source guys.
• [15:38] Dwi: somehow: I imagine simulator code has changed a bit from 2005 :P
• [15:38] Khalifa: in: 2005 people didn't go around with 5000 attached prims and 400 scripts
• [15:39] Uggla: latif: they have the sim freeze isolated to the mono distro they use
• [15:39] Linden: Another: important one going into the future:
• [15:39] Uggla: next: distro supposedly fixes it
• [15:39] Khalifa: not: only mono, also object rezzing (deserialization)
• [15:39] Linden: Falcon: has been doing a great job.
• [15:39] Flora: in: 2005 I could run seam trains across borders, it was that fast. Then LL 'improved' it - and its been worse ever since.
• [15:39] Linden: If: you've had or have physics problems,
• [15:39] Uggla: yes,: but the mono is the lion's share of that
• [15:39] Linden: and: just given up on pjira for reporting them,
• [15:39] Linden: Mono: scripts aren't the only source of lag, there are a lot of factors
• [15:39] Linden: push: it again.
• [15:40] Mayo: OK,: yer ON!
• [15:40] Linden: You'll: still get lag using lsl
• [15:40] Linden: There: really is someone on this side looking at these...
• [15:40] Linden: Excellent.:
• [15:41] Mayo: How: do we revive long-standing issues?
• [15:41] Uggla: i: think we're all willing to live with texture lag IF mono gets fixed...
• [15:41] Linden: Not: certain, Milo, Maestro?
• [15:41] Linden: best: way to kick them up?
• [15:41] Khalifa: i: don't buy "we can only use distro mono package" ;) debian will include 2.6 in about year 2015
• [15:41] Linden: new: jira?
• [15:42] Mayo: Intentional: duplicate? Lose all the old votes ...
• [15:42] Linden: true:
• [15:42] Linden: yea: new jira or reopened, adding newer notes etc
• [15:42] Mayo: So: pile on with the comments ...
• [15:42] Linden: In: the case of something like 1213, it needs a reopen.
• [15:42] Linden: Believe: it's currently marked closed or resolved.
• [15:43] Khalifa: change: of affected version helps too
• [15:43] Linden: also: make sure the component is set correctly ie physics
• [15:43] Mayo: Nope: - just looked - OPEN
• [15:43] Linden: Speaking: for myself, you can always bug me.
• [15:43] Linden: I'm: happy turning things into internal noise.
• [15:43] Mayo: It: is Physics
• [15:43] Mayo: Havok: 4 Beta
• [15:44] KhalifaLatif Khalifa: bugs monty "enable various caps" :P
• [15:44] Mayo: Created: 19/Jan/08 08:17 AM Updated: 03/Apr/08 07:07 AM
• [15:44] Linden: and: edit the affects version to the latest release
• [15:44] Mayo: Hey,: thanks for taking all these bullets for Oskar! B^D
• [15:44] Khalifa: hsha:
• [15:44] Khalifa: haha:
• [15:45] Khalifa: is: he on vacation?
• [15:45] Linden: I'm: putting an email alias in sending all my stuff to him
• [15:45] Linden: he: shouldn't have got on an airplane
• [15:45] Flora: 1213: - 2006 - 5880 - all the same thing - its inside HAVOK. Whats amazing is that it appeard in H4, and here we are with H7, and its not only still there, its worse?
• [15:45] Linden: touring: our empire
• [15:46] Linden: Kitto: it's that extra big of magic we bring to the table :-)
• [15:46] Uggla: drew: the short straw to singapore?
• [15:47] UgglaGooden Uggla: starts up the betting pool for "what will Oskar get caned for?"
• [15:47] Mayo: No: Workflow Option to change Affects Version/s, only Resolve Issue or Resolve (Fix Pending)
• [15:47] Flora: Monty: - are you saying that 5880 etc, is caused by something that Linden Labs has added to HAVOK?
• [15:48] Linden: No,: I'm joking.
• [15:48] Flora: OK:  :)
• [15:48] Linden: But: having now read through the physics code, I have an appreciation for the complexity.
• [15:48] Mayo: B^):
• [15:48] Flora: Join: the club :)
• [15:49] Linden: That's: why I'm always encouraging more physics testing.
• [15:49] Linden: When: 1213/2006 are dealt with, I'll bet it's unrelated to the 5880 fix.
• [15:49] Linden: But: that's a story for another day.
• [15:50] Mayo: I'll: be adding a physics issue soon - when a physical object is at rest on another physical object, the bottom one visually rotates slowly until touched,. while the top one remains at rest.
• [15:51] Uggla: added: havoc 7 beta to svc-1213
• [15:51] [[User:Helper: [#SVC-1213|Helper: [#SVC-1213]]:
• http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/svc-1213
• [15:51] Linden: there: has been some changes in the way motion is damped/stopped
• [15:51] Linden: If: you have a good reproducer of the bug, that would be excellent.
• [15:52] Mayo: Ahh,: Gooden - Edit issue . Duhhhh ...
• [15:52] UgglaGooden Uggla: *smiles*
• [15:52] Mayo: I: have a great reproducer.
• [15:52] Flora: ...: end ejected too?
• [15:52] Mayo: Several,: in fact.
• [15:52] Mayo: They: go back to H4, too.
• [15:53] Lupindo: One: thing i've noticed about physicck, why does stacking two blocks have a HUGE gap in them?
• [15:53] Linden: copy: select ?
• [15:53] Linden: It's: the collision tolerance for the Havok engine
• [15:53] Life: Your: region will restart in 5 minutes and 0 seconds for maintenance.
• [15:53] Linden: looks: like the code push is coming
• [15:53] Lupindo: Ok.: Who hit the reset button?
• [15:53] Flora: Yay,: such timing :)
• [15:53] Linden: That's: a great way to ensure office hours ends on time :)
• [15:53] Mayo: Techwolf,: is it more than 0.100m?
• [15:53] Lowenhar: or: early
• [15:53] Khalifa: that's: one way of saying "you can all go away now" :P
• [15:54] Beck: I: guess that's one way to end OH :)
• [15:54] Mayo: OH,: tricky way to dodge incoming B^)
• [15:54] Hello, Avatar!:
• [15:54] Uggla: which: regions have already been reset?
• [15:54] LindenMaestro Linden: prefers to end OH with a live crasher demo
• [15:54] Beck: lol:
• [15:54] Linden: So,: svc-5880 fix should be in this push or I'm going to scream.
• [15:54] [[User:Helper: [#SVC-5880|Helper: [#SVC-5880]]:
• http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/svc-5880
• [15:54] Khalifa: lol:
• [15:55] Flora: Morris:  : 1.40.0.205454
• [15:55] Linden: that: would be dramatic
• [15:55] Linden: next: version should be 1.40.0.205577 if not later
• [15:55] Life: Your: region will restart in 3 minutes and 0 seconds for maintenance.
• [15:55] Flora: Monty: Got voice?
• [15:55] Linden: go: for it maestro
• [15:55] Mayo: need: llAgentSurviveRegionRestart()
• [15:55] KhalifaLatif Khalifa: walks over to ahern
• [15:55] Linden: oh,: I don't have one for this version. 1.40 is just too rock solid ;)
• [15:55] Dwi: wow:
• [15:55] LupindoTechwolf Lupindo: reads Maestro comment....
• [15:55] Dwi: that: notice is really easy to miss
• [15:55] Dwi: in: 2.0.2
• [15:56] Mayo: Yup,: Drew - MANY of them are!
• [15:56] Dwi: that: one should be yellow/glaring/stick around
• [15:56] Mayo: With: flashing and beeping and bells