User:Enkidu Linden/Office Hours/2010-06-10

List of Attendees

• ATechwolf Foxclaw
• Attica Bekkers
• Enkidu Linden
• Ghengis Linden
• hong Yeu
• lonetorus Habilis
• Morgaine Dinova
• Qiyuan Anton
• Robin Cornelius
• tsurunari Toki

Transcript

[10:55]	Morgaine Dinova:	Wooohooo!!!!
[10:55]	Enkidu Linden:	hey there
[10:55]	Morgaine Dinova:	Hiya Enki --- glad you're still with us :P
[10:55]	Enkidu Linden:	thanks!
[10:56]	Enkidu Linden:	i am also glad!
[10:56]	Enkidu Linden:	well, maybe not glad
[10:56]	Enkidu Linden:	half-relieved?
[10:56]	Enkidu Linden:	anyway.. i see i left my shared media attempt sitting here
[10:57]	Enkidu Linden:	how are you all?
[10:57]	Morgaine Dinova:	Well, dunno what to think. But as long as there are tech Lindens still doing OHs, then at least there's a focus for AW Groupies :-)
[10:58]	Morgaine Dinova:	Awww Enki, and I was so enjoying the plywood ...
[10:58]	Morgaine Dinova:	Hi lone :-)
[10:58]	Enkidu Linden:	hey there's more where that came from
[10:58]	lonetorus Habilis:	heyhey
[10:58]	Morgaine Dinova:	Haha
[10:59]	lonetorus Habilis:	so sl is to become the new farmville? XD
[10:59]	Enkidu Linden:	i hope not!
[11:00]	lonetorus Habilis:	well, thats the public fear currently
[11:00]	lonetorus Habilis:	we are in a information vacuum
[11:00]	Morgaine Dinova:	Do you know anything about WebGL, Enki? Seeing as browser-based UI was part of the announcement
[11:00]	Enkidu Linden:	i know a guy at zynga and i'm pretty sure i'd not like linden lab becoming zynga
[11:00]	Attica Bekkers:	it better not i do fville with my 14 yo untilhe grows out of it
[11:01]	Enkidu Linden:	i know a little bit about webgl but i'm not a gl dev so.....
[11:01]	lonetorus Habilis:	so sl on a web page will be an additional way to access sl, hopefully
[11:01]	Enkidu Linden:	i've always thought that would be a good thing
[11:02]	lonetorus Habilis:	most likely with the sl in a browser thing IBM made?
[11:02]	Attica Bekkers:	willit be like an interface to chat from work with folks inworld
[11:02]	Morgaine Dinova:	I think the opposite. All the hassle and flakiness and restrictions and bloat of web browsers, with none of the benefits of dedicated apps.
[11:03]	Enkidu Linden:	i have no idea what it will look like, support, do, require, etc
[11:03]	lonetorus Habilis:	well, running a dumbed down v2 inside a browser window should not be so bad
[11:03]	lonetorus Habilis:	for the facebook crwd that is
[11:04]	lonetorus Habilis:	enkidu, of course not, but we can speculate
[11:04]	lonetorus Habilis:	:)
[11:04]	Enkidu Linden:	then let's speculate!
[11:05]	Enkidu Linden:	as long as you know i'm only speculating as well, it's party time
[11:05]	Attica Bekkers:	parenting has made me shameless about things like fb:P Only problem is none of my friends will join
[11:05]	Morgaine Dinova:	lone: agreed, but that's the only place for a browser-based interface I think. It would have to be so dumbed down that you couldn't do much beyond look and chat and listen to music.
[11:05]	lonetorus Habilis:	morg, and buy stuff for your av ;)
[11:05]	lonetorus Habilis:	seems fine enough for the facebook crowd
[11:05]	Morgaine Dinova:	True
[11:06]	lonetorus Habilis:	some of them will want to do more of course
[11:06]	lonetorus Habilis:	and they could then switch to stand alone client
[11:06]	Enkidu Linden:	i'm reminded of google docs
[11:06]	Enkidu Linden:	vs ms office
[11:06]	Morgaine Dinova:	Well that's a possibility. But it's not a future that's easy to square with mass firing of techs.
[11:06]	Robin CorneliusRobin	Cornelius curses the NDA
[11:07]	Attica Bekkers:	thefb crowd is very intolerant of some things, games lose masses of people if they put a step wrong, watch mafia wars die
[11:07]	lonetorus Habilis:	morg, well, they have also hired many new ppl
[11:07]	Morgaine Dinova:	It will take massive development effort to get something like that written. M's not gonna program it himself in Excel.
[11:07]	lonetorus Habilis:	well, use the ibm code?
[11:07]	lonetorus Habilis:	or the 3Di cleient
[11:08]	lonetorus Habilis:	client
[11:08]	lonetorus Habilis:	http://3di-rei.org/
[11:09]	lonetorus Habilis:	but if the goal is to remove the "install some browser plugin" then there will be a need for massive rewrite of a client
[11:09]	lonetorus Habilis:	something i belive will fail badly
[11:09]	Morgaine Dinova:	Wanting an FB-like future squarely well with LL abandoning interop, sadly.
[11:09]	Morgaine Dinova:	squares*
[11:09]	lonetorus Habilis:	if they want to get anywhere near the functionality of current client
[11:10]	lonetorus Habilis:	yeah, but the altrustic large vw interop goals have been exchanged for short term money grabs
[11:11]	Morgaine Dinova:	There's no free lunch in the browser. If they rewrite the client in WebGL, there will STILL be a massive download of client code (Javascript), and it will happen on every single login.
[11:11]	lonetorus Habilis:	morg, indeed, also means massive amounts of new code i would think
[11:11]	Enkidu Linden:	i think it would be more interesting if we didn't design a web client, but designed everything such a client might need to operte
[11:12]	Enkidu Linden:	and i wonder how far away from that we are today
[11:12]	Robin Cornelius:	not that far at all
[11:12]	Morgaine Dinova:	If you mean an interop protocol ... about a million miles away, Enki
[11:12]	Attica Bekkers:	but sl could get zynga like addiction and following really easy
[11:12]	Attica Bekkers:	byintroducing medals
[11:13]	Robin Cornelius:	reward points for bug fixing ;-p
[11:13]	Enkidu Linden:	hey dragon!
[11:13]	Robin Cornelius:	your next medal is for resolving 250 jira reports
[11:13]	Attica Bekkers:	ts your 500th teleport hers the medal of x and graphic goes on up your avatars medal site whichis optionally able to be made public
[11:13]	Attica Bekkers:	the old approval system without the chance for a negative review..
[11:14]	Attica Bekkers:	it doesnt need muchtech to get fb-ey
[11:14]	lonetorus Habilis:	lol
[11:14]	Enkidu Linden:	would implementing such a rewards system require linden help?
[11:14]	Attica Bekkers:	robinyes
[11:14]	Attica Bekkers:	thered defntielyhave tobe ajira ward
[11:14]	Attica Bekkers:	one for for your first jira
[11:14]	Attica Bekkers:	one for your fiftieth
[11:14]	lonetorus Habilis:	dont forget medals per X amount of lindens spent
[11:14]	lonetorus Habilis:	XD
[11:15]	Attica Bekkers:	somepoor linden would have to ok those, to save it from spam
[11:15]	Attica Bekkers:	ohyes
[11:15]	Attica Bekkers:	those ar ein every fb game
[11:15]	Attica Bekkers:	plus experience points
[11:15]	Attica Bekkers:	make your own clothes.. 200 xp
[11:15]	Morgaine Dinova:	Robin, what did you mean by "not that far at all" ?
[11:16]	Attica Bekkers:	so long as itwas opt in and hideable people do love brownie points
[11:16]	Robin Cornelius:	i was not refering to interop, but rather the peices coming together to make a web type client
[11:16]	Attica Bekkers:	i want an ward for 6000th texture upload
[11:16]	Enkidu Linden:	what sort of pieces?
[11:16]	Robin Cornelius:	i could spell it out but i would be sued
[11:16]	lonetorus Habilis:	or medals for number of sims visited
[11:17]	Morgaine Dinova:	Robin: yeah, but how are they coming together? There is no Javascript/WebGL client in the works AFAWK, and turning the current renderer into a plugin is apparently off the cards because they publicly said "no download".
[11:18]	Robin Cornelius:	yep thats correct
[11:18]	Robin Cornelius:	i have to be as vague as a linden about this, sorry
[11:19]	Morgaine Dinova:	Well your choice to take NDA. But it sucks, and you know it.
[11:19]	Enkidu Linden:	aw
[11:19]	lonetorus Habilis:	well, "no download" could have a different meaning to m than it has to you morg
[11:19]	Morgaine Dinova:	lone: you mean server-side rendering?
[11:19]	Robin Cornelius:	Morgain, sorry i've got bills to pay ;-(
[11:20]	lonetorus Habilis:	perhaps a browser like plugin download does not count as "a real download" :)
[11:20]	lonetorus Habilis:	enkidu, wanna move this oh over to blues chair, yoz has a oh starting in a few min
[11:21]	Morgaine Dinova:	lone: installing a Firefox extension is certainly a download. In SL's case, it would be a huge one.
[11:21]	Attica Bekkers:	no download like runescape? which does dload (but runs at slow modem speed)
[11:21]	Enkidu Linden:	i love yoz
[11:22]	Morgaine Dinova:	I don't know Yoz. Does he do tech stuff?
[11:22]	Enkidu Linden:	yoz also works in my group
[11:22]	lonetorus Habilis:	morg, yes, but its less technical to complete than a seperate dl and installation, a browser plugin is mostly a "click next" experience
[11:22]	lonetorus Habilis:	"Yoz Linden: Web engineering: social apps, wiki, JIRA, identity, new tech"
[11:23]	Morgaine Dinova:	Aha
[11:23]	tsurunari Toki:	ahaha
[11:23]	Enkidu Linden:	yoz does a lot of third party integration
[11:24]	lonetorus Habilis:	third party?
[11:24]	lonetorus Habilis:	can you give examples?
[11:24]	Enkidu Linden:	i mean third party applications, like the wiki
[11:25]	lonetorus Habilis:	ahh
[11:25]	lonetorus Habilis:	or the blog
[11:25]	Enkidu Linden:	yeah
[11:26]	Enkidu Linden:	so, i think i'll stay here and continue, but feel free to join yoz's OH if you like. give him any inappropriate gesture for me!
[11:27]	lonetorus Habilis:	im going to station a alt over at his oh ;)
[11:27]	lonetorus Habilis:	perhaps a lsl based chat relay? ;)
[11:27]	Enkidu Linden:	by the way, sorry about last week. i couldn't seem to log in until about 11:25am and no one was around
[11:27]	Enkidu Linden:	haha
[11:28]	Enkidu Linden:	i had a chance to mess with babbage's oauth lsl last week
[11:28]	Enkidu Linden:	it was pretty neat posting to twitter in world
[11:28]	Qiyuan Anton:	/kiss
[11:29]	Robin Cornelius:	its times like these you need an orbiter
[11:29]	hong Yeu:	Get lost!
[11:29]	tsurunari Toki:	hola
[11:30]	Qiyuan Anton:	/
[11:30]	tsurunari Toki:	JeBonjour
[11:31]	Attica Bekkers:	hola tsurunari would you like to sit down
[11:31]	lonetorus Habilis:	enkidu, i actually made a in world thing for this
[11:31]	lonetorus Habilis:	just rez it on the ground here
[11:31]	tsurunari Toki:	Sure
[11:31]	Enkidu Linden:	no kidding?
[11:32]	Enkidu Linden:	mind if i look under the hood?
[11:32]	Attica Bekkers:	just click on the empty couch and sit here
[11:32]	Qiyuan Anton:	c ya guys gtg
[11:33]	Attica Bekkers:	be well Quiyuan
[11:33]	Enkidu Linden:	does it also receive status updates, lone?
[11:33]	Enkidu Linden:	hey ghengis
[11:33]	Morgaine Dinova:	Hiya Ghengis :-)
[11:33]	Ghengis Linden:	Hi Morgaine
[11:34]	Morgaine DinovaMorgaine	Dinova imagines an influx of Facebook-type newbies griefing every tech OH
[11:34]	Enkidu Linden:	that was exciting
[11:35]	Attica Bekkers:	dont give awards for social tech? only have special awards granted from above?
[11:36]	Enkidu Linden:	oh man! i forgot
[11:36]	Enkidu Linden:	apparently jack's been talking about search in his OH
[11:36]	Enkidu Linden:	which are, sadly, at the same time as mine
[11:37]	Enkidu Linden:	i'm not sure where, though
[11:37]	Attica Bekkers:	but you are a cephalapod
[11:38]	ATechwolf Foxclaw:	Hi all . Finally got my alt going.
[11:39]	Enkidu Linden:	Linden Estate Services (213,107,49)
[11:39]	Enkidu Linden:	jack's OH
[11:39]	Enkidu Linden:	not that i think anyone should go there instead of here!
[11:40]	ATechwolf Foxclaw:	Jack getting fried there.
[11:40]	Enkidu Linden:	poor guy
[11:41]	Enkidu Linden:	nobody likes fried jellyfish, so i'm safe
[11:41]	Attica Bekkers:	I was thinking that
[11:42]	Enkidu Linden:	so, robin, as someone familiar with snowglobe, do you think a web client could be written in webgl by someone other than linden lab/?
[11:43]	Enkidu Linden:	i'm still curious about the difference between you and morgaine's assessments
[11:44]	Robin Cornelius:	i was not thinking a webgl solution
[11:44]	Morgaine Dinova:	Enki: the only way the two PoVs can be reconciled is by the huge amount of work it takes having been started long ago.
[11:45]	Robin Cornelius:	or you relax the assumptions about the implementation
[11:46]	Enkidu Linden:	seems reasonable since we're still just speculating
[11:46]	Morgaine Dinova:	Robin is under NDA, so let's not go there. But if it's not WebGL then it's a browser plugin/extension, so you don't avoid the huge download like the press release said.
[11:47]	Robin Cornelius:	can i quickly ask an unrelated question, Enkidu, you don't know anything about the mime type handing in the viewer do you?
[11:48]	Enkidu Linden:	i don't but i can ask around for you. what do you want to know?
[11:48]	Robin Cornelius:	i'm trying to serve a file with a custom mime type, its on my apache, curl says its good, the viewer says mime_type=
[11:48]	Robin Cornelius:	i want to use it to trigger a custom plugin
[11:49]	Robin Cornelius:	i once saw the correct type, but never again
[11:49]	Enkidu Linden:	how are you issuing the request? llhttprequest?
[11:50]	Robin Cornelius:	no i'm putting it on prim media
[11:50]	Robin Cornelius:	ty Attica
[11:50]	Enkidu Linden:	ok, i know who to ask then!
[11:51]	Morgaine Dinova:	Haha, Attica, tnx :-)
[11:52]	Attica Bekkers:	ghengis went to sleep
[11:53]	Attica Bekkers:	hope twasnt him you had to ask
[11:53]	Enkidu Linden:	robin, is there a wiki on setting up customer plugins?
[11:53]	Enkidu Linden:	er, custom
[11:54]	Ghengis Linden:	haha sorry, catching up on some reading
[11:54]	Enkidu Linden:	(my grammar is slowly becoming predictive text)
[11:54]	Attica Bekkers:	wb
[11:54]	Ghengis Linden:	thx
[11:55]	Robin Cornelius:	there is info on the protocol, which i've hacked around with loads of times, but something is amiss here for some reason
[11:55]	Enkidu Linden:	what's the url?
[11:56]	Attica Bekkers:	lsls is very good thing for people who dont program
[11:56]	Enkidu Linden:	i've piqued some curiosity
[11:56]	Robin Cornelius:	the url is http://127.0.0.1/test.rfb, apache is set to serve that with a custom mime type of remove/rfb (which it does)
[11:57]	Robin Cornelius:	er remote/rfb
[11:57]	Robin Cornelius:	then i have that mime type in mime_types.xml which lists my plugin as the library to handle that
[11:58]	Enkidu Linden:	callum is wondering what curl -i shows you
[11:59]	Enkidu Linden:	and i'm wondering what on earth you're up to
[12:00]	Enkidu Linden:	but we're out of time and i have a meeting starting
[12:00]	Robin Cornelius:	it gives me the http headers including "Content-Type: remote/rfb "
[12:00]	Robin Cornelius:	and then my content
[12:00]	Robin Cornelius:	i just want to trigger a custom plugin
[12:02]	Enkidu Linden:	he's not sure but he'd like to think about it more. i think you just handed him a rubik's cube
[12:02]	Enkidu Linden:	and i've got to run. thank you all for coming!
[12:03]	Attica Bekkers:	grins thanks
[12:03]	Ghengis Linden:	by all
[12:03]	Attica Bekkers:	bye
[12:03]	Ghengis Linden:	thanks attica for the snapshot, it's not my new profile pic!
[12:03]	Enkidu Linden:	it's not?
[12:03]	Attica Bekkers:	tell them the fb gamer stickines is awards/medals if it come sup
[12:04]	Attica Bekkers:	not tech
[12:04]	Enkidu Linden:	nothing says 'i love you' like 'i don't love you', ghengis
[12:04]	Attica Bekkers:	Iwant an ward for spending 5000000 lindens lol
[12:04]	Enkidu Linden:	thanks again, all. see you next week

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