Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2011-06-16

This meeting was held on June 16th, 2011

Agenda

Updates

• Second Life Server (main channel)
  • This channel did not get an update this week.

• BlueSteel RC Channel
  • These are the simulator side fixes for group chat.
  • Enable addressing chat message to more than one agent in a region
    • A protocol was implemented on the sim and in the multiagent chat backbone service to enable addressing of a chat message to multiple agents. When more than one recipient agent is present in the same region a single request is made to the sim addressed to all recipients. Previously a request was made for each agent needlessly duplicating requests.
  • https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_BlueSteel/11#11.06.14.232746

• LeTigre RC Channel
  • This is again Kelly's "mono2-performance" project.
    • Fifth time is the charm?
    • Fixed a bug that could cause scripts to crash with NullReferenceException errors.
      • https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-6926
    • Fix for "Periods of very low (or nonexistent) script performance"
      • https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-88
    • Fix for SCR-55 "script reset"
      • https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-55
    • Fix for SCR-76 "llRegionSayTo() silently fails in LSL2 scripts"
      • https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-76
    • Fix for SCR-66 "llRegionSayTo() Fails to send messages to attachments on sitting avatars"
      • https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-66
    • Fix for SCR-61 "llOwnersay Truncates multibyte characters at the end of it's range"
      • https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-61
    • Fix for SVC-6573 "Execution of script is not blocked on parcel for single user if scripts are not blocked for groups on parcel"
      • https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-6573
    • Fix for regions that would fail to start.
  • https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_LeTigre/11#11.06.14.232896

• Magnum RC Channel
  • This is "mesh-prep"
  • lLCastRay() is disabled.
  • Physics changes.
  • New Fixes
    • Fix for SVC-7025 "Recent change - physical vehicles rebound from non physical prim surfaces"
      • https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7025
    • Fix for SCR-99 "vehicle script slaiding again as did on previous update"
      • https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-99
    • Fixed a crashing bug.
  • https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_Magnum/11#11.06.14.232906

• Group Chat Update from Alain
  • https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/File:Message_rate.png

Upcoming Stuff

• DRTSIM-61

Interesting Stuff

• Windlight Estate Settings project viewer
  • http://tinyurl.com/Windlight-Region

Transcript

Transcript of Oskar Linden's Beta Server Office Hour for June 16th, 2011:

[14:59] Jonathan Yap: Does anyone have the jira # for the unreturnable
prim issue?
[14:59] TheBlack Box: heyn hey
[14:59] Fancy Greeter: Caleb Linden has arrived! (Or, returned?)
[14:59] Oskar Linden: hello hello
[15:00] Lares Carter: heya Oskar
[15:00] Kallista Destiny: Hello Oskar
[15:00] WolfPup Lowenhar: having fun there oskar
[15:00] Oskar Linden: those crickets could stop :-)
[15:00] Homeless: hi Oskar
[15:01] Fancy Greeter: Coyot Linden has arrived! (Or, returned?)
[15:01] Oskar Linden: watermelon cooler is noisy
[15:02] WolfPup Lowenhar: hey tank
[15:02] Fancy Greeter: Alain Linden has arrived! (Or, returned?)
[15:02] Oskar Linden: welcome everyone
[15:02] TankMaster Teichmann: oh hah, logedinto my alt
[15:02] Oskar Linden: thanks for coming
[15:03] Homeless: coyot is roasting
[15:03] TankMaster Teichmann: oh well
[15:03] Coyot Linden: My butt's on fire
[15:03] Oskar Linden: bear with me if I'm not super energetic today
[15:03] Coyot Linden: as usual
[15:03] Oskar Linden: I was up at 4am
[15:03] Lares Carter: Jonathan, it's https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-6905
[15:03] Flame of Jira: [#SVC-6905] Immortal prims: Objects resisting
take, delete, return, and autoreturn
https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-6905
[15:03] Oskar Linden: to get to the airport by 5
[15:03] Rex Cronon: greetings everybody
[15:03] Homeless: anyone have some BBQ sauce?
[15:03] Oskar Linden: to get to San Francisco by 8
[15:03] Oskar Linden: I'm a tad tired
[15:03] Oskar Linden: but it is good to be in the SF offices today
[15:03] TankMaster TeichmannTankMaster Teichmann waes like a noob to oskar
[15:03] Kadah Coba: Coyot, I got some water here if you want to put it out
[15:04] Oskar Linden: sitting next to Coyot and Maestro IRL
[15:04] Oskar Linden: it's nice
[15:04] Rex Cronon: something burning:)
[15:04] Oskar Linden: I also got to hang out with the new director of
engineering Bagman Linden
[15:04] Oskar Linden: he promised to stop by here one of these days
[15:05] Oskar Linden: I had lunch with Caleb to welcome him to the office
[15:05] Fancy Greeter: Maestro Linden has arrived! (Or, returned?)
[15:05] WolfPup Lowenhar: im here i think :p
[15:05] Kadah Coba: Crashy
[15:05] Kallista Destiny: quite well
[15:05] Oskar Linden: aww
[15:05] Jacky Scharf: Good morning.
[15:05] Latif Khalifa: still alive!
[15:05] Oskar Linden: yay
[15:05] Coyot Linden: what is that repeating noise?
[15:05] Jacky Scharf: I'm dead ...
[15:05] Oskar Linden: mute the tub coyot
[15:06] Oskar Linden: I had to
[15:06] Fancy Greeter: Dragon Linden has arrived! (Or, returned?)
[15:06] Kadah Coba: What noise?
[15:06] Oskar Linden: the watermelon tub is chirping
[15:06] Kadah Coba: oO
[15:06] Maestro Linden: it helps if you don't wear headphones :)
[15:06] Oskar Linden: yeah
[15:06] Oskar Linden: anyway
[15:06] Oskar Linden: here is the agenda
[15:06] Rex Cronon: hearing crickets?
[15:06] Oskar Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group
[15:06] WolfPup Lowenhar: hey maestro
[15:06] Maestro Linden: hey there
[15:06] Jacky Scharf: I used headohones for 4h now, it's enough.
[15:07] Kadah Coba: How do I stop llLoopSound?
[15:07] Maestro Linden: llStopSound();
[15:07] Maestro Linden: I think..
[15:07] Oskar Linden: as you all may have noticed there was no main
channel release this week
[15:07] WolfPup Lowenhar: try disabling the script
[15:07] Oskar Linden: none of our candidates passed the criteria
[15:07] Oskar Linden: so we couldn't promote one
[15:07] Jacky Scharf: Yes, I wondered y.
[15:08] Oskar Linden: it was a bit disappointing but better than
shipping a bad bug to the main channel
[15:08] Rex Cronon: if u merbed them...
[15:08] Rex Cronon: merged*
[15:08] Oskar Linden: we did have RC channel rolls though
[15:08] Oskar Linden: only one new slot
[15:09] TankMaster Teichmann: its all quiet now! :3
[15:09] Oskar Linden: BlueSteel got the group chat changes
[15:09] Jacky Scharf: YAY! (yay!)
[15:09] Kadah Coba: (There, annoying sounds killed)
[15:09] Coyot Linden: tyvm TankMaster
[15:09] Oskar Linden: technically we put the group chat fixed code in
each of the RC's
[15:09] Oskar Linden: you'll see that in the release notes
[15:10] Oskar Linden: one way or another we will ship that code next week :-)
[15:10] Oskar Linden: the sim side fixes were only part of the solution
[15:10] Oskar Linden: we upgraded the UTIL nodes last Thursday
[15:10] WolfPup Lowenhar: so all three RC chanels got that new chat code?
[15:10] Oskar Linden: yeah
[15:10] Alain Linden: hi
[15:10] Oskar Linden: alain is here to talk about some of the changes
[15:10] Rex Cronon: hi
[15:10] Oskar Linden: he brought a graph
[15:10] Oskar Linden: 1s
[15:11] Jacky Scharf: It's a huge solution. ;-)
[15:11] Oskar Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/File:Message_rate.png
[15:11] Kallista Destiny: Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!
[15:11] Oskar Linden: tell us about that graph alain
[15:11] Alain Linden: so, as you may have noticed we've pushed our
changes for group chat
[15:11] Oskar Linden: Thursday morning
[15:11] Oskar Linden: of last week
[15:11] Rex Cronon: yes. less borkage:)
[15:11] Alain Linden: ;-)
[15:12] Rex Cronon: u have even a jira:)
[15:12] WolfPup Lowenhar: i know i say the JIRA on that one
[15:12] Oskar Linden: that jira was entertaining
[15:12] TankMaster Teichmann: :)
[15:12] Alain Linden: I'll have to look up the jira
[15:12] Liisa Runo: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7031
[15:12] Flame of Jira: [#SVC-7031] Chat Lag is broken!
https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7031
[15:12] Oskar Linden: the results overall have been promising.
[15:12] Kadah Coba: It still sucks for me, but its only takes a couple
minutes to send a msg instead of 5. So I guess thats better.
[15:12] Oskar Linden: it's not a 100% fix for every group
[15:12] Kallista Destiny: There still is the occasional 'delayed' message;
[15:12] Oskar Linden: but a lot of groups work better now
[15:12] Oskar Linden: so what is this graph alain?
[15:12] Rex Cronon: AFK...............................
[15:12] Rex Cronon: afk
[15:13] Alain Linden: If you take a look at the wiki link that oskar
posted, it will help you to understand where we are.
[15:13] Oskar Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/File:Message_rate.png
[15:13] WolfPup Lowenhar: i like the meroos working on the servers pic
in that issue
[15:13] Alain Linden: it shows the total number of messages being
delivered per minute by each of the 16 groupchat nodes.
[15:13] Alain Linden: the data was collected last Friday
[15:14] TheBlack Box: to me it seemed like bigger groups work much
better now ... but i still had problems opening the group-chat for
small groups (names not loading)
[15:14] Sigma Avro: each or all off ?
[15:14] Oskar Linden: group names might be different
[15:14] Jonathan Yap: I have also noticed names not loading in a small group
[15:14] Alain Linden: Previously any one node could handle at most
15000 messages a minute
[15:14] TheBlack Box: ah, k
[15:14] Alain Linden: you'll notice that there are a lot of dots above that line
[15:15] Oskar Linden: wow
[15:15] Alain Linden: now we can handle more like 30000 per minute
[15:15] Oskar Linden: was there a before graph? I should have asked
that before this meeting
[15:15] Kallista Destiny: Impressive
[15:15] Alain Linden: So for most nodes, most of the time we have
enough capacity
[15:15] Alain Linden: that's why a lot of people saw lag go away.
[15:15] WolfPup Lowenhar: are you planing on increasing that cap
[15:15] Alain Linden: now some nodes are still peaking up near 30K
[15:16] Alain Linden: those would be ones serving some really big groups
[15:16] TankMaster Teichmann: i bet the FS release chatter didnt help :P
[15:16] Oskar Linden: FS?
[15:16] Alain Linden: you may still get lag sometimes if you're group
is on one of those nodes at peak usage.
[15:16] WolfPup Lowenhar: Firestorm
[15:16] TankMaster Teichmann: firestorm
[15:16] TankMaster Teichmann: the phoenix V2 viewer
[15:16] Kallista Destiny: I was impressed that the phoenix/firestorm
group chugged along just fine
[15:17] TheBlack Box: does firestorm finally have meop ?
[15:17] Oskar Linden: so if your group, regardless of size, is on a
node that is at peak you will experience lag?
[15:17] Alain Linden: Overall, the good news is that we think we've
caught up with group chat usage in terms of capacity
[15:17] Alain Linden: the bad news is that we've just caught up.
[15:17] TankMaster Teichmann: always has, black, its V2 code
[15:17] Alain Linden: This is appreciated by higher ups, so we are
considering more long term improvements.
[15:17] TheBlack Box: awesome finally :) hope we can use it widely then soon :)
[15:17] Alain Linden: anyway, that's where we stand
[15:17] Latif Khalifa: and that not all groups are fixed. how do you
plan to tackle the nodes that are still overloaded?
[15:18] TankMaster Teichmann: the group chat lag fixes have been
really appreciated, alain, thx for the work :)
[15:18] Sigma Avro: sure
[15:18] Kallista Destiny: doubling the number of servers and using an
extra bit of the group UUID would help... Expensive though.
[15:18] Alain Linden: to fix the problem more permanently is going to
take some architectural changes
[15:18] Flip Idlemind: And no project viewers required :D
[15:18] Latif Khalifa: I know Oskar moved all my groups to those nodes
it seems, except for AWG
[15:18] Alain Linden: which will take longer than what we've done so far.
[15:18] Latif Khalifa: :P
[15:18] Oskar Linden: it's more than just doubling the servers or
adding hardware
[15:19] Alain Linden: yes.
[15:19] Latif Khalifa: Alain, so no immediate solution for groups that
happen to be assigned to overloaded nodes?
[15:19] Alain Linden: sadly no.
[15:19] Latif Khalifa: :(
[15:20] Kallista Destiny: and groups are assigned by the Group UUID correct?
[15:20] Alain Linden: but the sim changes we've made can help groups
when everyone isn't spread out over different regions
[15:20] TheBlack Box: i guess to really fix group-caht someone need to
invent a totally new protocol .... xmpp would also not help in the
long run i guess
[15:20] Alain Linden: groups map to nodes based on uuid
[15:21] Latif Khalifa: I'm afraid that typical group usage is that
people are all over the place and optimization for a single message to
all agents in the same region isn't going to help much
[15:21] TankMaster Teichmann: any viewer changes needed?
[15:21] Oskar Linden: there is no moving between util nodes with out
current system
[15:21] Oskar Linden: no vwr changes needed
[15:21] Oskar Linden: 100% server side
[15:21] TankMaster Teichmann: ok :)
[15:21] Rex Cronon: back
[15:21] Oskar Linden: you could add lag back with a TPV patch though
[15:21] Coyot Linden: BRB
[15:21] Alain Linden: Latif, yeah that's true. We don't expect to get
much bang for the buck there.
[15:21] TankMaster Teichmann: we just might, dont want to ruen the
user experence after all....
[15:21] TankMaster Teichmann: ;)
[15:21] Latif Khalifa: oskar, i got lag in half of my groups without
additional patches tyvm
[15:21] Oskar Linden: it was still a level of optimization
[15:22] Oskar Linden: we knew you wouldn't be happy without lag Latif
so we gave you your own util node. it runs on a newton messagepad 130
[15:22] TankMaster Teichmann: ^.^
[15:22] Oskar Linden: <3
[15:23] Oskar Linden: thanks for stopping in alain and giving a recap
[15:23] Alain Linden: an IBM XT actually, but I can press the turbo
button if that helps
[15:23] Rex Cronon: unbelivable. what the lindens did just 4 u latif:)
[15:23] Oskar Linden: we appreciate it
[15:23] Alain Linden: So that's what we've got so far.
[15:23] Latif Khalifa: yeah i know oskar hates me
[15:23] TankMaster Teichmann: lol
[15:23] Alain Linden: Chat should be better, but we realize that we
have't got lag beat yet.
[15:23] Oskar Linden: I really don't, but latif likes to think so
[15:24] Oskar Linden: I have more love for you guys than you realize
[15:24] TankMaster Teichmann: its been a great start, alain
[15:24] Alain Linden: thanks everyone.
[15:24] Oskar Linden: thanks for stopping in Alain
[15:24] Alain Linden: unless y'all have any more questions all be
checking out now.
[15:24] Oskar Linden: we look forward to more good stuff from your team
[15:24] TankMaster Teichmann: haev a great weekend, alain
[15:24] Oskar Linden: more questions?
[15:24] Latif Khalifa: thanks for the update Alain
[15:24] Rex Cronon: tc alain
[15:24] Kallista Destiny: Thank you Alian
[15:24] Sigma Avro: tks
[15:24] Alain Linden: ta!
[15:25] Oskar Linden: cool
[15:25] Oskar Linden: next up is LeTigre
[15:25] Oskar Linden: poor LeTigre
[15:25] Oskar Linden: we fixed an issue where regions wouldn't start
[15:25] Oskar Linden: that is what held us back from release this week
[15:25] Maestro LindenMaestro Linden has an update about this
[15:25] Eddi Decosta: hi there sorry my late
[15:25] Rex Cronon: is there a group with 50k users? it would be
interesting if all were logged in and using group chat:)
[15:25] Oskar Linden: go kelly go go go
[15:25] Oskar Linden: Imean maestro
[15:25] WolfPup Lowenhar: thier might even come a point when the text
for groups is coming in so fast that it actualy will affect the viewer
nad we have to find a fix for that
[15:25] Oskar Linden: go go go
[15:25] Jacky Scharf: Hello Eddi. ㋡
[15:26] Maestro Linden: ok, so
[15:26] Eddi Decosta: hi Jacky! :D
[15:26] Maestro Linden: we discovered yesterday that certain avatars
with a lot of attached scripts
[15:26] Oskar Linden: *ahem*
[15:26] Oskar LindenOskar Linden peers around
[15:26] Maestro Linden: cause other scripts in the region to pause for
an extended period when they log out
[15:26] Latif Khalifa: someone in the beta group on agni was saying
that the bug where scripts would stop running for up to two minutes
isn't completely gone
[15:26] Oskar Linden: extended being multiple minutes
[15:26] Sigma Avro: discovered now,? lol
[15:26] Sigma Avro: ah
[15:27] Rex Cronon: how about when they tp to a different sim?
[15:27] Maestro Linden: well, the worst case, when the worst avatar
logs out of the worst region, is a 5 minute pause
[15:27] Liisa Runo: you found out yesterday?
[15:27] Oskar Linden: it's hard to narrow down those issues right now
Latif with the potential cause coming from the TIMEWARP hardware issue
[15:27] Maestro Linden: Rex: it's about the same
[15:27] Rex Cronon: makes sense
[15:27] Flip Idlemind: Is it my imagination or has someone been saying
"You have to fix the freeze on de-rez as well as the freeze on rez"
[15:27] Maestro Linden: except the worst avatar can barely TP, he's so bloated
[15:27] Kallista Destiny: lol
[15:27] Maestro Linden: this is a little different, flip
[15:27] Maestro Linden: the sim isn't frozen, and actually SimFPS is
ok when this bug happens
[15:28] Maestro Linden: it's just that other scripts don't get a chance to run
[15:28] Rex Cronon: i usually have less than 10 scripts and i can barely tp:(
[15:28] Sigma Avro: Is that linked to the type of scripts used by rezing avats ?
[15:28] Latif Khalifa: maestro, yes, there were several reports like that
[15:28] Maestro Linden: anyway, Kelly and I are looking into
configuration tweaks which should hopefully fix this probelm
[15:28] Maestro Linden: yeah, it varies quite a bit based on the type of script
[15:28] Kallista Destiny: I typically run on the order of 100 and
never have problems with TP.
[15:28] TheBlack Box: from what i am seeing the high number of scripts
is really only an issue if they are mono
[15:29] Maestro Linden: e.g. my avatar with 1024 mono scripts was fine
[15:29] Maestro Linden: but this other avatar with *ahem* fancy
attachments is 1000x worse
[15:29] Oskar Linden: *ahem*
[15:29] Sigma Avro: Well, if it depends on type of scripts it makes
more sens thant just the script rezing issue...
[15:29] Kallista Destiny: what are the nature of the scripts?
[15:29] TriloByte Zanzibar: do rezzer/rezzing scripts have more of an
issue with it?
[15:30] Rex Cronon: what kind of lsl calls cause the most lag on tp/logout?
[15:30] Maestro Linden: I'm not even sure what the total nature is.
But they're big an complicated, with lots of event handlers :)
[15:30] Ann Otoole: are they the same AOs or hair or shoe scripts all the time?
[15:30] Kallista Destiny: or scripts that do a lot onrez?
[15:30] Sigma Avro: yes and sensros probably..
[15:30] TheBlack Box: are we mostly talking about hair or about HUDs ?
[15:30] Maestro Linden: scripts that take avatar controls are a bit
worse, I believe
[15:31] Sigma Avro: ah
[15:31] Maestro Linden: hm, we're mostly talking about stuff in the
nether regions
[15:31] Rex Cronon: i think it has to do with how much mem has each
script allocated to itself
[15:31] Maestro Linden: I'll leave it at that :)
[15:31] TheBlack Box: oh :))
[15:31] Ann Otoole: fancy attachments. must be ... nm
[15:31] Maestro Linden: but anyway, we're working on a fix which is
looking promising
[15:32] TriloByte Zanzibar: that's good to hear
[15:32] Rex Cronon: just don't "fix" the scripts 4 good:)
[15:32] Ann Otoole: give them a vasectomy
[15:33] TankMaster Teichmann: would having a customizable AO built
into the viewer be better then using a hud for reducing lag?
[15:33] Rex Cronon: haha
[15:33] Oskar Linden: *ahem*
[15:33] Oskar Linden: well
[15:33] Oskar Linden: ok then
[15:33] Oskar Linden: back on topic
[15:33] TankMaster Teichmann: hehe
[15:33] Oskar Linden: thanks maestro for that... interesting report
[15:33] Kallista DestinyKallista Destiny coughs "Xcite!"
[15:34] TheBlack Box: there must be some funny jira entries that i
havent read yet :))
[15:34] Rex Cronon: xcite scripts will have problems perfoming?
[15:34] Eddi Decosta: what that? lol
[15:34] Oskar Linden: anyways
[15:34] Rex Cronon: :)
[15:34] Oskar Linden: on to Magnum
[15:34] Oskar Linden: poor magnum
[15:34] TriloByte Zanzibar: moving right along
[15:34] Oskar Linden: you can all blame falcon for everything
[15:34] Oskar Linden: everything bad is on him. everything good is on me
[15:34] Oskar Linden: he told me to say tht
[15:34] Oskar Linden: he wanted to break all vehicles
[15:35] Oskar Linden: now we're just making vehicles slightly worse
[15:35] Eddi Decosta: i need to blame one linen for this morning? :p
[15:35] Oskar Linden: or something
[15:35] Eddi Decosta: linden*
[15:35] Oskar Linden: you have a problem with your linens this morning eddi?
[15:35] Kallista Destiny: Oh that accounts for the crashing Zepplins in Caledon.
[15:35] Oskar Linden: nothing some bleach and a good wash won't fix right?
[15:35] Oskar Linden: X-D
[15:35] Eddi Decosta: hmm just log out since 3hrs, cause inventory
maintenance lol
[15:36] Eddi Decosta: for 3 hours
[15:36] Oskar Linden: so we made some more physics tweaks
[15:36] Eddi Decosta: not since ..
[15:36] Oskar Linden: basically there will be some performance
decreases for vehicles.
[15:36] Oskar Linden: these things can be tweaked on the content creator side
[15:36] Oskar Linden: vehicles in SL are pretty much a hack anyway
[15:37] Oskar Linden: we've been trying to move towards a model that
works better with havok
[15:37] Oskar Linden: once mesh is out some things will become easier
[15:37] Sigma Avro: like what is worst Osker ?
[15:37] Oskar Linden: what have we seen maestro?
[15:37] Sigma Avro: *Oskar
[15:37] Kallista Destiny: Ruh-Rho trains will be late.
[15:37] Maestro Linden: oh, just some vehicles bounced a bit at
prim/linkset seams
[15:37] Maestro Linden: cars, I mean
[15:38] Maestro Linden: it was kinda bad in last week's deploy if you
drive fast,
[15:38] Maestro Linden: but the problem is pretty much fixed in this
week's version
[15:38] Rex Cronon: there r race traks that r like that maestro
[15:38] WolfPup Lowenhar: i seen that when i was rideing one of my horses
[15:39] Maestro Linden: vehicles with non-convex prims acting as
contact points tend to suffer more
[15:39] TheBlack Box: that might be a problem for planes starting and
landing as well ... jumping on the airfield is problematic ...
[15:39] WolfPup Lowenhar: i was at a full gallop and went to go across
a bridge and nearly jumped it
[15:39] Rex Cronon: and trains
[15:39] Maestro Linden: (for some of the horses, for some reason they
have a path cut and dimple which makes the physics shape behave
poorly)
[15:39] Peta Lytton: hi all
[15:39] Rex Cronon: hi
[15:39] Maestro Linden: I could see that too, TheBlack
[15:40] Rex Cronon: btw. where/how can we buy land here?
[15:40] Oskar Linden: what is the need?
[15:40] Maestro Linden: Aditi lacks the infrastructure to buy land properly
[15:40] Peta Lytton: i was wondering that as well
[15:41] Maestro Linden: so, right now there really is no way
[15:41] Rex Cronon: want to test how some scripts perform on land i own
[15:41] Peta Lytton: how do you get a region/sim on the beta grid
[15:41] Oskar Linden: what's the need Peta?
[15:41] Maestro Linden: we can import whole regions to Aditi for
testing (bug oskar)
[15:41] Oskar Linden: it's possible, but ADITI is super scarce for resources
[15:41] Homeless: Donate large sums of money to Oskar
[15:41] Peta Lytton: working with MESH
[15:41] Oskar Linden: we can't give regions to everyone
[15:42] Oskar Linden: Peta, email me and describe your need in a
proposal and I'll see what I can do
[15:42] Rex Cronon: can u set a sim where everybody can buy land/parcels
[15:42] Oskar Linden: oskar@lindenlab.com
[15:42] Oskar Linden: why do you need to own it?
[15:42] Peta Lytton: thanks, Oskar
[15:42] Ann Otoole: you could carve up some sandboxes into parcels and
set them to group only, access list, pay wall and let people ram into
them to see what happens. :P
[15:42] Oskar Linden: land buying here is not an easy thing to set up
[15:43] appletin: the nned may be the person wish to test his sims
timing with a number of mesh builds to see if the load will make to
much lag
[15:43] Peta Lytton: autoreturn is a pain in the butt
[15:43] Oskar Linden: ADITI is a shared resource
[15:43] Peta Lytton: i know this
[15:43] Rex Cronon: i have a script that is supposed to die if over
land that i don't own, but the land owner can tell the script to die
even if he/she doesn't own it
[15:43] appletin: what autoreturn ?
[15:43] Oskar Linden: autoreturn is annoying but necessary to let
everyone share the limited resources
[15:43] TriloByte Zanzibar: shame you guys hadn't been more active in
the mesh project, they've been working on those issues pretty steadily
since last fall
[15:44] Oskar Linden: ADITI is much smaller than most of you realize
[15:44] Oskar Linden: resources here are very tight
[15:44] TriloByte Zanzibar: I think they even had a couple regions
that were parceled out for participants to use for testing at one
point as well
[15:44] Peta Lytton: i rather have my own small piece of the beta grid
where i can do my own thing without worrying about things like that
[15:44] Oskar Linden: email me if you are a region owner and you think
you have a need for a region on ADITI and I will consider it
[15:44] appletin: havok and mesh works great with no problems at all
[15:44] Oskar Linden: but it comes without support and regions go up
and down all the time
[15:45] Peta Lytton: that is fine
[15:45] WolfPup Lowenhar: i might have been working more on mesh if it
was not for the stub
[15:45] Oskar Linden: so if we have a free slot next week we'll put in
a maint-server that maestro has been working on
[15:45] Oskar Linden: we talked about those changes last week
[15:46] Rex Cronon: u know is kind of dangerous to test replicators
over someones land, especially if things go wrong:)
[15:46] Oskar Linden: how many of you gave the windlight vwr a try?
[15:46] Oskar Linden: http://tinyurl.com/Windlight-Region
[15:46] Oskar Linden: I forgot to use it today
[15:46] WolfPup Lowenhar: it is nice
[15:46] Oskar Linden: I have been haivng fun with it though
[15:46] TriloByte Zanzibar: it's been my primary viewer for a couple weeks now
[15:46] Kallista Destiny: I did, it was rather nice wandering around Claedon.
[15:46] Oskar Linden: nice
[15:46] WolfPup Lowenhar: i should have loged here with it
[15:47] Maestro Linden: Does the day cycle stuff work correctly in
your experience, trilobyte?
[15:47] WolfPup Lowenhar: but i decided to use this test viewer instead
[15:47] TriloByte Zanzibar: yeah, works extremely well
[15:47] Maestro Linden: I don't understand why the sky here in Morris
isn't crazier
[15:47] Maestro Linden: ok, maybe it's just slow
[15:47] Peta Lytton: how do i join the beta group?
[15:47] Maestro Linden: but I thought I set like 20 different presets
throughout the day cycle, whcih should be 4 hours...
[15:47] Sigma Avro: Just join
[15:47] Maestro Linden: oh well
[15:47] Jacky ScharfJacky Scharf .oO( "Harmonie" on Agni will be
rebooted now? ) Ö.ö I think there's no RR this week on "Second Life
Server"?
[15:47] Eddi Decosta: Yik, an UFO
[15:47] TriloByte Zanzibar: I wish there was a scrubber in the
region/estate -> environment tab to preview settings, but other than
that its been a lot of fun
[15:48] Oskar Linden: that'd be nice
[15:48] Oskar Linden: TheBlack... what are you doing?
[15:48] appletin: be funny to see some one to make a mesh blender that
will use havok and explodes 2000 prim ping pong balls every 5 min with
a temp rezzer
[15:48] TriloByte Zanzibar: the WL viewer was crashing on login to
aditi for me earlier today, but otherwise no stability issues
[15:48] Oskar Linden: weird
[15:49] Oskar Linden: 12 minutes left. does anyone have any thing to talk about?
[15:49] Peta Lytton: brb
[15:49] TriloByte Zanzibar: does the main-server stuff include a
possible fix for SVC-6905?
[15:49] Flame of Jira: [#SVC-6905] Immortal prims: Objects resisting
take, delete, return, and autoreturn
https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-6905
[15:49] Maestro Linden: it does
[15:49] TriloByte Zanzibar: that one seems to be occurring more regularly
[15:49] Oskar Linden: immortal prims aren't so tough now are they?
[15:49] WolfPup Lowenhar: i was wanting to ask maestro some thing but
privately after the meeting
[15:49] Sigma Avro: true
[15:49] Maestro Linden: the maint-server would've gone out this week,
but it got bumped by group chat stuff
[15:49] TriloByte Zanzibar: good to hear
[15:50] Rex Cronon: i have something that is weird. u can't get the
owner key if u have the key of an object that died. is it normal?
[15:50] TheBlack Box: Anjin keeps telling me i should use any
opportunity i find to make sure the sim "Skyhighatry Designs" gets
into the first batch of mesh-beta sims on the main grid .... so here i
go again :)
[15:50] Kallista Destiny: SVC-5927 is a year old
[15:50] Flame of Jira: [#SVC-5927] Temp on Rezzed objects get queued
https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5927
[15:50] Maestro Linden: yes, the sim forgets about objects after
they've derezzed
[15:50] appletin: lol immortal prims just need a better wold to live in
[15:50] TriloByte Zanzibar: yeah, were you ever able to confirm what
the rollout's going to be?
[15:51] TriloByte Zanzibar: the current RC's and then 90% in one go
doesn't sound like a very phased rollout
[15:51] Oskar Linden: we talked about this
[15:51] Liisa Runo: got any more info about performance decreases for
vehicles? should we be worried?
[15:51] TriloByte Zanzibar: plus it would likely tie up all the good
work you guys do for a good 8 weeks
[15:51] Kallista Destiny: the current RC are 30% of the grid
[15:51] Oskar Linden: the rollout plan for mesh has not been announced
[15:51] TriloByte Zanzibar: sorry if it was mentioned at the start of
the meeting, I was a few mins late
[15:52] Oskar Linden: I do not believe that mesh will be shipped enabled
[15:52] Peta Lytton: i am using currently
[15:52] Peta Lytton: Second Life 2.7.4 (232901) Jun 14 2011 16:35:59
(Project Viewer - Mesh)
[15:52] Oskar Linden: more than likely it will be shipped disabled
[15:52] Oskar Linden: serverside peta
[15:52] Rex Cronon: will u ship the ability to make/edit 68m prims
before the mesh?
[15:52] Oskar Linden: then we will enable it all at once
[15:52] appletin: bet phantom prims will have problems and objects
will become broken
[15:52] Oskar Linden: but the mesh team has not announced a release process yet
[15:52] TheBlack Box: will sim-owners then be able to switch mesh on
... or will we need to file a request for that ?
[15:53] Oskar Linden: when it's on for one it is on for all
[15:53] TankMaster Teichmann: 64*
[15:53] Oskar Linden: we're still a ways out
[15:53] Oskar Linden: patience young padawans :-)
[15:53] TankMaster Teichmann: :)
[15:53] appletin: lol
[15:53] TheBlack Box: oh ... alright ..:)
[15:53] TriloByte Zanzibar: other than all that stuff about phased
rollouts and July/August and RC's and stuff :)
[15:53] Peta Lytton: i have the latest Project MESH viewer
[15:53] Oskar Linden: yes
[15:54] Oskar Linden: that is different than being on a mesh server on agni
[15:54] appletin: ya all think mesh is a blackbox hack ya can turn off and on
[15:54] Peta Lytton: i like the new features
[15:54] Liisa Runo: oh, did LL fix the hole that allows people to
change the owner and creator of the object to any agent?
[15:54] appletin: lol when it on sculptys will be gone
[15:54] Oskar Linden: what hole?
[15:54] Rex Cronon: what lisa?
[15:54] Liisa Runo: the hole been demonstrated to LL in some OH, idk
much about it
[15:55] appletin: hello mesh good bye sculpt
[15:55] WolfPup Lowenhar: one thin that needs to be done befor then is
get it so that Open Source devs have a functional section of the
viewer
[15:55] Oskar Linden: I've not heard of it specifically
[15:55] Liisa Runo: okie, ill ask Oz
[15:55] Sigma Avro: frightening nlack hole this one !
[15:55] Oskar Linden: but then I also don't comment on open SEC issues
[15:55] Sigma Avro: *black
[15:55] Oskar Linden: most lindens won't
[15:55] appletin: and good bye blackbox sculpty tools
[15:55] Oskar Linden: or shouldn't
[15:55] Liisa Runo: yes, very spooky hole, and last night it seemed
someoen was griefing with it again
[15:55] Peta Lytton: i don't like viewer 2 but i like the features of
this viewer
[15:55] Rex Cronon: unliely that sculpties will every die:)
[15:56] Oskar Linden: "hey is this hole fixed yet?" "nope" "haha daddy
needs a new pair of boots"
[15:56] Rex Cronon: unlikely*
[15:56] appletin: lol black hole whats next timewarp lol
[15:56] Oskar Linden: :-)
[15:56] Oskar Linden: already have the timewarp
[15:57] Peta Lytton: gravity and friction are very good additions
[15:57] appletin: next people will get stuck in sims and have timing problems
[15:57] Rex Cronon: can we gravity=-10:)
[15:57] Oskar Linden: :-)
[15:57] Peta Lytton: -1
[15:57] Oskar Linden: space flaot
[15:58] Sigma Avro: could this be set on region wide property Oskar ?
[15:58] Kallista Destiny: Hey just line the days of 2007 when people
went flyig up into the air
[15:58] Oskar Linden: if you ask nicely
[15:58] Oskar Linden: I'll think about it
[15:58] Sigma Avro: (it is on stand alone)
[15:59] Oskar Linden: well thank you all for coming today
[15:59] Kallista Destiny: good night Oskar
[15:59] Jacky Scharf: Tjhank ya very much Oskar. ㋡
[15:59] Sigma Avro: Well, then please Oskar
[15:59] TheBlack Box: thanks for the OH !
[15:59] Oskar LindenOskar Linden is exhausted now
[15:59] WolfPup Lowenhar: tc oskar
[15:59] TriloByte Zanzibar: thanks for the meeting!
[15:59] Eddi Decosta: your welcome Oskar, do you have the 25 first min of log?
[15:59] Sigma Avro: Tks Oskar
[15:59] appletin: you made them come to this meeting by making bugs for them
[15:59] Oskar Linden: you all have a good weekend
[15:59] Lares Carter: thanks for the meeting, Lindens
[15:59] Jacky Scharf: Ladies and gentlemen, now have a good night. ㋡
[15:59] Oskar Linden: you too Latif
[15:59] Jacky Scharf: •*•.♥ Bye Bye ♥.•*•
[15:59] TankMaster Teichmann: tc oskar
[15:59] TheBlack Box: you too , sleep well
[15:59] Sigma Avro: And M%aestro, Coyot
[16:00] Eddi Decosta: tc Oskar ㋡