User:Benjamin Linden/Office Hours/2007 May 10

Transcript of Benjamin Linden's office hours:

[10:09]	Benjamin Linden:	hi Khamon
[10:09]	Benjamin Linden:	you found it :-)
[10:09]	Khamon Fate:	hello, i was lost
[10:09]	Benjamin Linden:	hi. are you here for office hours?
[10:09]	Khamon Fate:	i am yes
[10:09]	Benjamin Linden:	great. I just got here my self. let's have a seat
[10:10]	Benjamin Linden:	how's it going?
[10:10]	Khamon Fate:	pretty well today, how about your end?
[10:11]	Khamon Fate:	you're an interface designer?
[10:11]	Benjamin Linden:	doing great, thanks. very busy as usual
[10:11]	Benjamin Linden:	yes I am
[10:11]	Benjamin Linden:	what about yourself?
[10:11]	Khamon Fate:	what interface projects are y'all working at the moment?
[10:12]	Benjamin Linden:	well we have a few things going on
[10:12]	Khamon Fate:	i'm a net admin at a college in alabama
[10:12]	Benjamin Linden:	Voice Chat is rolling out in a few weeks
[10:12]	Benjamin Linden:	it has a fair amount of UI and we're also taking the opportunity to streamline the other communciation tools
[10:12]	Benjamin Linden:	also, there's work being done on the Search UI
[10:12]	Khamon Fate:	streamline with LLSD?
[10:13]	Benjamin Linden:	and we're working on a project to update the visual appearance of the viewer
[10:13]	Benjamin Linden:	sorry, what's LLSD?
[10:13]	Khamon Fate:	oh joy does that include moving the minimized buttons off of the chat area at the bottom of the screen? please tell me it does.
[10:14]	Khamon Fate:	LLSD is the new messaging protocol the Icehouse team is working on but I can rephrase the question. What does "streamlining the other communications" mean?
[10:14]	Benjamin Linden:	can you clarify what you mean?
[10:14]	Benjamin Linden:	ah, you really are an Icehouse follower :-)
[10:15]	Benjamin Linden:	actually the UI changes we're making to the IM/Chat tools are independent of the messaging work Icehouse is doing
[10:15]	Khamon Fate:	yes, when i have the map open for example and minimize it, the minimal representation floats right over the area of my screen where chat appears
[10:15]	Benjamin Linden:	right now there are several redundancies in the IM/Chat interface
[10:15]	Khamon Fate:	the same is true for minimized scripts et al
[10:15]	Benjamin Linden:	Friends/Groups/Chat History/IM
[10:16]	Benjamin Linden:	the plan is to consolidate these into a single communication console
[10:16]	Khamon Fate:	oh that will be nice
[10:16]	Khamon Fate:	hi raven
[10:16]	Benjamin Linden:	that will also have voice chat controls for initiating 1:1 voice chats
[10:16]	Raven Welesa:	hi
[10:16]	Benjamin Linden:	hi there Raven
[10:16]	Raven Welesa (E2J): ??
[10:16]	Benjamin Linden:	welcome!
[10:16]	Khamon Fate:	will the console roll out all at once?
[10:16]	Raven Welesa:	one of the sims i go to is next to furry japan, thqat translator is necessary
[10:17]	Khamon Fate:	and will it replace the other windows or will they operate concurrently for a release?
[10:17]	Benjamin Linden:	it's really more of a consolidation than a replacement
[10:17]	Benjamin Linden:	but yes, it will replace the existing functionality
[10:17]	Alynna Vixen:	Script run-time error
[10:17]	Alynna Vixen:	Stack-Heap Collision
[10:17]	Benjamin Linden:	I expect this will rollout with the next beta viewer
[10:17]	Khamon Fate:	hi alynna
[10:17]	Benjamin Linden:	hi Alynna
[10:18]	Alynna Vixen:	hi..
[10:18]	Benjamin Linden:	wow cool footprints
[10:18]	Alynna Vixen:	thank you..
[10:18]	Khamon Fate:	that's exiciting news. did i clarify my question about minimized windows well enough?
[10:19]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, I was just re-reading that
[10:19]	Benjamin Linden:	and I know what you're talking about
[10:20]	Benjamin Linden:	that's actually not part of the project to update the visual appearance but there is a separate effort to provide better window management (docking, etc). we should probably re-think the way minimized windows work as part of that.
[10:20]	Benjamin Linden:	the visual update is meant to have as little functional impact as possible.
[10:20]	Khamon Fate:	please do put it in the mix
[10:20]	Benjamin Linden:	because we are strapped for dev resources
[10:21]	Khamon Fate:	what impacts will it have? are they UI related or differences in rendering techniques
[10:22]	Benjamin Linden:	it's really not very technical, mostly we're swapping out the existing images
[10:22]	Benjamin Linden:	the UI is currently somewhat skinnable
[10:22]	Raven Welesa:	when khamon is finished i have questions about the recent blog post
[10:22]	Benjamin Linden:	simply by switching the graphic elements in a folder in the SL install
[10:22]	Khamon Fate:	very xml, go ahead raven
[10:22]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, exactly khamon
[10:23]	Benjamin Linden:	what's your question Raven?
[10:24]	Raven Welesa:	first is, has linden labs ascertained yet the validity of the germans news organization's claims and have they further corroborated whether this was just an elaborate attempt by said company to discredit and slander sl
[10:25]	Benjamin Linden:	Unfortunately I'm not the right person to answer that question, Raven.
[10:26]	Benjamin Linden:	I know that Linden Lab is looking into this matter.
[10:26]	Khamon Fate:	Benjamin's an interface design guru.
[10:26]	Benjamin Linden:	This is mainly a legal and PR issue. Robin Linden has office hours and would be a better person to ask.
[10:27]	Raven Welesa:	She knows my concerns and still I have yet to receive a response from them when i voiced them before
[10:27]	Benjamin Linden:	I'm sure she's getting a lot of questions about it right now.
[10:27]	Benjamin Linden:	The blog will probably be the best source of information.
[10:28]	Raven Welesa:	the blog shows nothing
[10:28]	Benjamin Linden:	sorry I can't be of more help on this.
[10:28]	Raven Welesa:	all it shows is one post and a bunch of people that put down comments that take away from true questions
[10:29]	Benjamin Linden:	since my area of expertise is UI design and usability, I'd like to stay focused on those topics during my office hours
[10:29]	Khamon Fate:	speaking of the blog, is your team doing any work on the inworld browser? is that going to be any more functional than reading a help file off the hard drive any time soon?
[10:29]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, Khamon, I know there is work being done on HTML on a prim
[10:29]	Benjamin Linden:	is that what you mean?
[10:30]	Benjamin Linden:	or do you mean the actual web viewer window?
[10:30]	Khamon Fate:	nope, just a plain inclient browser window
[10:30]	Benjamin Linden:	ah
[10:30]	Khamon Fate:	the latter
[10:30]	Benjamin Linden:	actually I'm not sure what the status of that is
[10:30]	Khamon Fate:	k
[10:30]	Benjamin Linden:	may I ask what you'd like to use it for?
[10:31]	Khamon Fate:	do you know of any work being done to provide customization of scripted dialog boxes?
[10:31]	Khamon Fate:	sorry, i'll answer your question
[10:32]	Khamon Fate:	it's difficult to stay ahead of the hardware demands of the SL client. that's reasonable considering that it's being developed ninety-miles and hour.
[10:32]	Khamon Fate:	but loads of people simply can't run SL and IE or Firefox at the same time.
[10:33]	Benjamin Linden:	oh I see, that's an interesting observation
[10:33]	Khamon Fate:	an inclient browser, functioning in the same shell/vm/call it what you will can help them tremendously especially as inworld services are migrated to the web
[10:33]	Khamon Fate:	i.e. we *have* to use the website now to view inworld transactions
[10:34]	Khamon Fate:	we *could* teleport using SURLs from an inclient browser
[10:34]	Benjamin Linden:	actually a topic I wanted to discuss in a future office hour is a light-weight SL viewer, maybe even a browser plug-in
[10:34]	Benjamin Linden:	so it's sort of the opposite of what you're saying, instead of running the web in the viewer you run SL in a browser
[10:34]	Khamon Fate:	schedule that and i'll talk it up
[10:34]	Benjamin Linden:	sweet!
[10:34]	Benjamin Linden:	I was thinking next Thursday
[10:35]	Khamon Fate:	that's an interesting approach as well
[10:35]	Benjamin Linden:	I'll post to sldev. are you on that?
[10:35]	Khamon Fate:	yes i am
[10:35]	Benjamin Linden:	great
[10:35]	Benjamin Linden:	hi Traven
[10:35]	Benjamin Linden:	welcome!
[10:35]	Khamon Fate:	hi traven
[10:35]	Traven Sachs:	Hello Benjamin - thank you
[10:35]	Khamon Fate:	my other UI question is do you know of any work being done to provide customization of scripted dialog boxes?
[10:36]	Benjamin Linden:	oh right, sorry I forgot. can you provide a little more context? I'm not sure what you mean
[10:36]	Khamon Fate:	all we can script now are those horrid little blue boxes with those icky little blue buttons
[10:36]	Benjamin Linden:	oh I see
[10:36]	Benjamin Linden:	so you want the ability to bring up a regular dialog box
[10:36]	Alynna Vixen:	cute tail. you make it?
[10:36]	Traven Sachs:	modded it :)
[10:36]	Khamon Fate:	ir customize the existing one in some ways, colour scheme, number of buttons
[10:36]	Traven Sachs:	it was a single when I got it
[10:37]	Traven Sachs:	I have a question regards development Ben
[10:37]	Khamon Fate:	i know that's LSL-related too, but thought you might have some input as it crosses the UI border
[10:37]	Benjamin Linden:	Khamon, do you mean customize the blue notification box?
[10:37]	Benjamin Linden:	or a regular window like the profile window?
[10:38]	Khamon Fate:	the box produced by llDialog()
[10:38]	Khamon Fate:	with buttons in it that gives a selected value back to a the script that produced it
[10:39]	Benjamin Linden:	that pops the blue notification box right?
[10:39]	Benjamin Linden:	in the upper right
[10:39]	Khamon Fate:	we can only define the button text and reply, but not the size, number or colour of the buttons
[10:39]	Benjamin Linden:	I actually haven't done very much LSL scripting, it's something I need to get into more
[10:39]	Traven Sachs:	texturing the buttons would be kewl too LOL!
[10:39]	Khamon Fate:	yes to give the script user choices
[10:39]	Benjamin Linden:	right ok
[10:39]	Benjamin Linden:	I haven't heard of any work to do that but I'll ask around for you
[10:40]	Khamon Fate:	if you can prompt an update to llDailog() that allows us to customize that UI a bit, you'll be my hero for a month
[10:40]	Traven Sachs:	I've been contacted by The Open University who are apparently doing a project on teen education on the teen grid - they are interested (somehow heard about) the technology behind my touring balloon I developed for The Shelter here on the main grid - is it possible to arrange for a transfer of no-mod scripts to an agent that has legitimate access on the teen grid for use in their project?
[10:41]	Benjamin Linden:	I'll see what I can do Khamon
[10:41]	Khamon Fate:	Char or Blue can likely arrange that for you Traven.
[10:41]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, I was just going to say Blue would be the best person to ask about that
[10:41]	Benjamin Linden:	he does a lot of work with the teen grid
[10:41]	Raven Welesa:	why don't u just copy the script to notepad and send them that, so they can put it in a notecard here?
[10:41]	Traven Sachs:	excellent :)
[10:42]	Benjamin Linden:	I'm not sure if Blue has office hours
[10:42]	Traven Sachs:	I have no problem giving them the script Raven - but not the source
[10:42]	Traven Sachs:	I 'sell' that technology
[10:42]	Traven Sachs:	LOL!
[10:42]	Raven Welesa:	no blue doesn't have office hours, at least not this month at any rate
[10:42]	Traven Sachs:	k I'll send him a note
[10:43]	Traven Sachs:	thanks guys that answered MY question :)
[10:43]	Benjamin Linden:	ok well let me know if you have trouble reaching him
[10:43]	Traven Sachs:	thanks much benjamin :)
[10:43]	Benjamin Linden:	ohh Raven disappeared into a script error
[10:43]	Benjamin Linden:	np Traven!
[10:43]	Benjamin Linden:	thanks for stopping by!
[10:43]	Raven Welesa:	no that was alynna
[10:43]	Traven Sachs:	Pleasant day to you all :)
[10:43]	Khamon Fate:	Robin is at her office in Ambleside Raven if you want to talk to her.
[10:43]	Benjamin Linden:	oh woops sorry
[10:43]	Raven Welesa:	she is there right now?
[10:43]	Khamon Fate:	yes now
[10:43]	Traven Sachs:	oh and Khamon - nice job on the Breezy Willow - I love it
[10:44]	Traven Sachs:	looks perfect by my castle moat :)
[10:44]	Khamon Fate:	thanks Traven
[10:44]	Khamon Fate:	flexible prims are daboss
[10:44]	Traven Sachs:	aye
[10:44]	Khamon Fate:	'til the sculpties take over
[10:44]	Benjamin Linden:	is Breezy Willow a tree you made?
[10:44]	Khamon Fate:	tis, i'll drop one on you
[10:44]	Benjamin Linden:	cool
[10:45]	Khamon Fate gave you Breezy Forest Tree.
[10:45]	Khamon Fate gave you Breezy Willow Tree.
[10:45]	Benjamin Linden:	great thanks!
[10:45]	Khamon Fate gave you FGH Dogwood.
[10:45]	Khamon Fate:	here's a dogwood from my line as well so you can see the dialog box
[10:45]	Khamon Fate:	oh thank you. does your bear look like an olthoi queen like your av does ha ha
[10:46]	Benjamin Linden:	lol yes a little, I tried to make it look like this av
[10:46]	Benjamin Linden:	so have you had a chance to use the new voice beta?
[10:47]	Khamon Fate:	i'm don't compute with sound very often. just turn on the speakers when i need them. so no
[10:47]	Benjamin Linden:	it will be interesting to see what sort of adoption we get on Voice
[10:48]	Benjamin Linden:	it's actually a very cool technology
[10:48]	Khamon Fate:	it'll be very cool to see what people do with it too. users never seem to use the tech for what the designers intended but rather find their own uses
[10:48]	Benjamin Linden:	we use it a lot at work
[10:48]	Benjamin Linden:	that's true about users!
[10:48]	Benjamin Linden:	that's what makes this job so interesting :-)
[10:49]	Khamon Fate:	it'll have to prove mandatory to my SL experience for me to turn it on. I generally keep audio and video muted now.
[10:49]	Khamon Fate:	most of what people do with it is more distracting and a burden on my bandwidth and frame rate than it's worth
[10:49]	Khamon Fate:	cool, but useless to me
[10:50]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, I can see that
[10:50]	Khamon Fate:	i'm gonna run support Robin after dumping people on her
[10:50]	Khamon Fate:	thanks for hosting
[10:50]	Benjamin Linden:	lol ok sounds good
[10:51]	Benjamin Linden:	sure thing, thanks for stopping by Khamon
[10:51]	Benjamin Linden:	watch for my post on sldev
[10:51]	Khamon Fate:	i'll keep a watch and talk it up
[10:51]	Khamon Fate:	have a great day
[10:51]	Benjamin Linden:	you too!
[10:51]	Benjamin Linden:	see ya
[10:53]	Alynna Vixen:	Script run-time error
[10:53]	Alynna Vixen:	Stack-Heap Collision
[10:54]	Benjamin Linden:	hey Alynna
[10:54]	Benjamin Linden:	welcome back
[10:54]	Alynna Vixen:	that was very annoying. 4 system freezes inna row.
[10:54]	Benjamin Linden:	wow that sucks
[10:54]	Benjamin Linden:	maybe it's all your pretty particles :-)
[10:55]	Alynna Vixen:	*blushes* its more likely to be that I run my system slightly out of spec and .. well.. its hitting 80f in here.
[10:57]	Alynna Vixen:	I was going to present my own questions related to Raven's but.. well.. i have other technical questions I can ask later, I know you close at 11..
[10:57]	Benjamin Linden:	that's ok, you can go ahead and ask now if you'd like
[10:59]	Alynna Vixen:	well, i wrote a linux updater for SL, but it has a GPL component (xdialog). So it was rejected. Was it reviewed enough for people to tell me whether it would be included if I made my own non-GPL xdialog clone?
[11:00]	Benjamin Linden:	oh wow, I think this it too technical of a question for me. have you talked to Rob Linden about this?
[11:02]	Alynna Vixen:	nope, I dont know who to talk to. But I don't want to do all the work of making something do what xdialog does .. if it isn't already adequate for submission.
[11:03]	Benjamin Linden:	this is for the open source code right?
[11:03]	Alynna Vixen:	well I submitted the entire thing into jira
[11:04]	Alynna Vixen:	i don't know where it would go honestly, i hear they are trying to replace every non-GPL compatible component with GPL code.
[11:04]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, this is definitely a question for Rob
[11:04]	Benjamin Linden:	he has office hours too
[11:04]	Benjamin Linden:	http://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=mvktahmo6mjpvpkkkdnmabmghg%40group.calendar.google.com
[11:05]	Benjamin Linden:	this calendar lists everyone's office hours
[11:05]	Alynna Vixen:	and they come here?
[11:05]	Benjamin Linden:	Rob is the guy in charge of our open source efforts
[11:05]	Alynna Vixen:	ok. well thank you. :)
[11:05]	Benjamin Linden:	he has office hours in his office
[11:05]	Benjamin Linden:	let me get another link for you
[11:06]	Benjamin Linden:	https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Office_Hours
[11:06]	Benjamin Linden:	that has office hours and locations
[11:07]	Alynna Vixen:	i bookmarked it... thank you very much.
[11:07]	Benjamin Linden:	no problem. thanks for stopping by!