Talk:Downloads

"Viewer on the Directory" ? or "TPV policy compliant viewers"?

I tried to create the category "Viewer on the Directory"(868903). But a few hours later, it was changed "TPV policy compliant viewers"(869212). I personally think it is not objective indicator anyone can see before they download them and use it. I want to hear the other people's comment about it. (As LL say in the directory page, "they have either declined to self-certify or been refused for noncompliance with our policies")

Added the new category in this revision --> (869422) -- Mako Nozaki 22:19, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

I think the previous separation into 3D-view clients (up to now called "graphical") and non-3D-view clients (currently called "text-only", although some aren't text-only) was—and still would be—sufficient. Whether a Viewer is in the directory can be seen on the official directory page. Having this info duplicated here only means additional work to keep it in sync. Whether a Viewer not in the directory is TPVp compliant is difficult to tell without inspecting the full source code. Whether such a Viewer's developer(s) claim it to be TPVp compliant should (if at all) be listed as a feature, not be a top-level sorting criterion.

-- Boroondas Gupte 21:31, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

I second Boroondas. I think a flat list in alphabetical order with only the Graphical/Text-only categories is enough. I also find it extremely unfair to further penalize viewers which are not in Linden Lab's TPV directory, since the reason why they are not there is not because they would not be TPV policy compliant but the result of Linden Lab requiring private data that is illegal in many countries (for example, in France, see Law "Informatique et Liberté" Article 6, Paragraph 3) to be registered in this directory. Also, like explained in the TPV policy by Linden Lab themselves, being listed in the directory is optional and not a requirement for TPV-compliant viewers, and using a directory listed viewer does not represent any guarantee for the user (since it's a self-certification process and Linden Lab says they won't guarantee anything).

If you really want to add categories, then one category that would be useful is one for discontinued viewers.

Reverting to the flat list till an agreeement is met, since the new classification is already wrong (more viewers became or will very soon become TPV-compliant even while not in Linden Lab's directory). I propose to keep the statu-quo till the 30th of April anyway.

Henri Beauchamp 07:24, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Needs Update (After new TOS activated?)

About Imprudence on this page, it definitely promotes unnecessary confusion, people would think that they can use this viewer in SecondLife, as far as looking at the linked pages. You can know the information about "rant" only if you look at their blog, I couldn't find its link on those linked pages. I suggest adding comment about that or just comment out the article till they change their mind. Moreover, some viewers currently don't support being used in SecondLife grid. It is questionable they are here among the viewers still willing to obey Third-Party Viewers Policy. -- Mako Nozaki 04:22, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Alphabet

Where did we loose the alphabet on the third party viewer page? Maybe we should create a binary wiki for programmers. :-p RedMokum Bravin 14:02, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Toxic Viewer

I get a warning about a trojan while installing!—The preceding unsigned comment was added on 18:51, 6 March 2010 by XPhile Boucher

• which one? what scanner.. I checked it no virus sigs with AVG or Norton. Dimentox Travanti 16:29, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

"Scan ""Shell extension scan"" was finished." "No infection was found during this scan" "Folders selected for scanning:";"F:\Users\dimentox\Downloads\ToxicViewer_2-0-3-2_Setup.exe;" "Scan started:";"Tuesday, March 09, 2010, 10:44:46 AM" "Scan finished:";"Tuesday, March 09, 2010, 10:47:11 AM (2 minute(s) 25 second(s))" "Total object scanned:";"4056" "User who launched the scan:";"dimentox" Dimentox Travanti 16:48, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Hybrid and Homebrew?

What exactly does hybrid and homebrew mean? Where is the difference to 'third party'? 'Homewbrew' even sounds a bit declassifying. Is the further extension of 'thrid party' really needed? --Peter Stindberg (July 8)

No responses? Then I am going to take those declassifying words out. --Peter Stindberg (August 25)

Merging in Alternate viewers page

Merging the alternate viewers page into this neatly is next on my todo list however doing so neatly is going to be tricky along with the issue of keeping anything up to date. GW ^(T|C) -- 01:32, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Merged the content in and the page should be useable but I still want to seperate graphical from text viewers and all the content needs to be updated since much of it is way out of date. Also for each viewer there needs to be a line saying when the info on this page for that viewer was last checked and updated. GW ^(T|C) -- 19:35, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Merging in Talk:Alternate viewers page

And on a side note.. I am not sure it was a good idea to merge the alternate viewers page with the Official SL downloads page, I think there is value in having them seperate.

--Ron Grantham 05:24, 3 June 2009 (UTC) [ Metabolt Credit to SLeek should be given, as Metabolt heavily uses existing SLeek code. Also SLeek should gte mentioned in the article.

Downloads The content of this article should probably be migrated to Downloads.

--SignpostMarv Martin 00:16, 18 December 2007 (PST)

It's been a year and a half but it's on my list of things to do, as soon as I get a chance and can figure out how to do it neatly I'll merge this page's contents in and redirect. GW (T|C) -- 01:33, 27 May 2009 (UTC) IM Not sure if this is the right place, but with Metabolt being mentioned, are the other clients like SLitechat worth mentioning? http://slitechat.dooglio.net/

I'd say: go for it! (please respect alphabetical order). oobscure 10:55, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Got the merge done the other day and people are updating the listings which is nice but a lot of them are still out of date and if it can be done without causing too much confusion I think that active and inactive projects should be seperated although the existence of viewers classified as "semi-active" complicates that. GW ^(T|C) -- 06:01, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Imprudence Viewer

The first section under the Imprudence viewer (Usability, Stability, Flexibility) has nothing to do with the Imprudence viewer but rather is a rant against Linden Labs. It is inappropriate for a wiki and, frankly, is counterproductive for the proponents of Imprudence.Jos Ling 13:41, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

I agree with the "rant again LL". However if you see that page as a place where the alternative viewer developers can present their project and their mission statement, it definitely has its place. I can't judge if it is counterproductive - it might even appeal to some. However I think the only judges of the statement are the readers, and therefore it is up to the Imprudence developers of how they want to present themselves. I will change the headline to "Motivation" and give the developers a head's up to rethink the passage. Thank you for bringing this up. --Peter Stindberg 13:57, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Editing_Guidelines#Point_of_View Quote: "A neutral point of view should be adopted, with the caveat that this wiki is for people helping build Second Life, not for complaints about Second Life or Linden Lab." - the removed text reads as follows:

"The Second Life Viewer suffers from a stifling atmosphere of non-change. This atmosphere emanates from Linden Lab, whose attitudes and policies discourage all but the smallest and most superficial improvements. This is the result of the nature of Linden Lab as a corporation, thus rendering Linden Lab ineffectual at dealing with the fundamental usability problems that plague the Viewer." - to me that was clearly a complaint about Linden Lab, and therefore not meeting the guidelines.

My personal opinion is given the size of the development team and the fact that they have two projects to keep in sync (server and client) the pace of change is reasonable. I may disagree with the priority in which they make updates, but that is not a reason to bash them on the "nature of Linden Lab as a corporation". In any case that is incorrect, the company name is "Linden Research". DanielRavenNest Noe 16:41, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

The paragraph in question is derived from excerpts from our larger manifesto, but for some reason was not marked as such. Anyway, I agree that the paragraph is not appropriate for this wiki, so I have no objection to its removal. Jacek Antonelli 20:32, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Future of this page

So.... is this page just going to be run as usual until LL gets the viewer registry up and running as noted at https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/community/blog/2009/10/20/third-party-viewer-policy? It seems like once that is done (which admittedly could be awhile) there's not going to be much of a purpose to this page since there will be another spot for officially sanctioned viewers and I doubt LL will want a list of non sanctioned viewers on the wiki. GW ^(T|C) -- 23:25, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, as you say, LL might take quite some time to finish this. Already now the blogs speculate that it will be most likely an opt-in registry, so there still might be use for a full overview. I can imagine, for example, that LL requires disclosure of full RL info, and I can imagine quite some viewer developers will not want to give out that info (without this meaning they have shady things in mind). So my suggestion is to just wait and see, and in the meantime make this page as accurate and concise as possible. --Peter Stindberg 07:59, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Features... features... features...

I really think it is unnecessary to list so many features for each. It would be more ideal if each clients' description was concise and clear. A small list of Major Features would go a long way to making the page friendly and more attractive to the public.

It might be a good idea to phrase the nature of a client as a Major Feature itself in a way for the target audience it is inherently for. Examples being..

Slimmed down for FPS combat

Improvised enhancements for Builders

Early JIRA Patch integrations

Usability upgrades,

Movement

Camera

Interface

Anti-Griefing measures

...

Just something that has been itching me, as clients evolve the list becomes unfathomably unusable. This wasn't a problem as much long ago, each change used to be quite significant, but now the heavy text is dragging down the page.

Oh, and this has nothing to do with me being at the bottom of the list ;), I don't care, but it might put off potential users for everyone. Each user introduced into third party viewers is important for them to thrive as Linden Lab will be working to move their viewer to appeal newbies, we on the other hand must be able to catch existing users, content creators, community members, etc. --Nexii Malthus 03:43, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

You have a point there and I agree with your assessment. However getting the various editors to play along might e a challenge, unless we could think of some sort of template. Why don't you just start with your own entry as a suggestion what it could look like? --Peter Stindberg 10:56, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Hmmmm, a template? I think I'll look around at other wiki pages in the mean time to take examples from for a better layout. I wish we had collapsible sections, that would solve the issue entirely by allowing on-demand information to readers. --Nexii Malthus 09:52, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Milk Client website unavailable?

I can't reach the website listed for Milk Client. The domain neox.hacklite.net doesn't seem to have an A or AAAA DNS record (I only get the SOA record.) Even stranger, the 2^nd level domain hacklite.net points to 127.0.0.1 (i.e. localhost).
--Boroondas Gupte 13:26, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Hosting Debate

Yes, it is temporarily offline due to debating on a host. Sorry for the inconvenience; it should be back up very soon. I did take the time to edit out the page removing the link directed to it.--Project Neox 06:11 AM February 2010 (UTC)

Meerkat should really be removed

Not only is the Meerkat site down, the viewer should also be removed from the list because of its import/export capabilities which would be frowned upon nowadays. RedMokum Bravin 03:26, 15 February 2011 (PST)RedMokum Bravin

I think you should feel free to remove Meerkat yourself. Other viewers in this list are obsolete, by the way, so they should be removed as well. With regard to import/export capabilities, I think I remember that Meerkat checked permissions before it let you use the feature - if this is true, then the feature itself isn't a problem. --oobscure 06:22, 15 February 2011 (PST)