Difference between revisions of "User:Zero Linden/Office Hours/2008 Apr 08"
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Zero Linden: Full house = sign of success! | Zero Linden: Full house = sign of success! | ||
Zha Ewry: Dead laptop on its way to be fixed. I want my FPS back | Zha Ewry: Dead laptop on its way to be fixed. I want my FPS back | ||
Line 108: | Line 83: | ||
Gareth Ellison: with scripts | Gareth Ellison: with scripts | ||
ShiftyGuy Trenchcoat: oh yeah! | |||
ShiftyGuy Trenchcoat: that too! | |||
Tao Takashi: we might invent some way to create objects in IRC | |||
Rex Cronon: such a novel idea:) | |||
Gareth Ellison: hey, split it up into parcels of land | |||
Zero Linden: And the spec is already written! | |||
Gareth Ellison: across servers | |||
Gareth Ellison: wow! | |||
Zero Linden: Okay---- | |||
Saijanai Kuhn: And lag. Dont' forget the lag | |||
Gareth Ellison: we can call it second reality | |||
ShiftyGuy Trenchcoat: except there would be way more cool than sl | |||
Gareth Ellison: ok, onto business | |||
Gareth Ellison: zero - agenda | |||
Zero Linden: Yes - agenda | |||
Lalinda Lovell: and we can all see eachs ip and dos each other | |||
Lalinda Lovell: jk | |||
Zero Linden: so far no one has made use of my spiffy agenda section on the Wiki | |||
Morgaine Dinova: Ah yeah, the lag must be part of the spec, or it wouldn't be authentic | |||
Saijanai Kuhn: had two issues pop up in dicussion. Mine and everyone else's | |||
Gareth Ellison: how about we all throw up what was said in AWGroupies meeting? | |||
Lalinda Lovell: not all of you please | |||
Zero Linden: So - I have one item - a secretary | |||
Lalinda Lovell: it lasted 9 hours didnt it | |||
Saijanai Kuhn: ? | |||
Lalinda Lovell: you want a secretary zero? | |||
Lalinda Lovell: i have a pen | |||
ShiftyGuy Trenchcoat: wow | |||
ShiftyGuy Trenchcoat: so few people on voice | |||
Saijanai Kuhn: for handling SLGOGP? | |||
Gareth Ellison: no transcripts on voice | |||
Tao Takashi still wants a better name and URL :) | |||
ShiftyGuy Trenchcoat: right | |||
Zero Linden: Well, let's not throw up... present? What is the topic? | |||
Rex Cronon: ip? | |||
Lalinda Lovell: slgogp is the worst, whatever is it change it | |||
Morgaine Dinova: Zero: one thing that came up in AW Groupies meeting was to use a bundle of TCP streams instead of just one | |||
held open by 1.1. That could improve various thinks, and allow prioritization too. | |||
Gareth Ellison: at AWG we discussed event queues | |||
Gareth Ellison: yeah, i mentioned the case of various exploding cute animals | |||
Tao Takashi: we mostly discussed IBM ;-) | |||
Gareth Ellison: i.e important events | |||
Zero Linden: okay, do we need IBM on the agenda here? | |||
Saijanai Kuhn didn't want to hear about the bunnies | |||
Tao Takashi: not for me | |||
Jennifer Gallindo: IBM would be good | |||
Morgaine Dinova: No more bunnies pls | |||
Jennifer Gallindo: hehe | |||
Gareth Ellison: important events not getting bogged down in event queues and multiple such event queus to compensate | |||
Gypsy Paz: yeah, I'd like to hear more about IBM | |||
Gareth Ellison: no more bunnies | |||
Gareth Ellison: i promise | |||
Zero Linden: I've got so far: Secretary, Event Queue/Bundles of TCP | |||
Saijanai Kuhn: Zha covered IBM but not everyone was at the Groupies meeting | |||
Saijanai Kuhn: login needs three parts not two | |||
Tao Takashi: Zha should blog about it ;-) | |||
Zero Linden: Okay, well, I'll grant IBM a few minutes | |||
Gareth Ellison: possibility of edge touching sims, opensim mods with the IBM subgrid | |||
Dahlia Trimble: are there transcripts for awg? | |||
Zero Linden: Sai? Okay, I'll add that | |||
Zha Ewry: On my list, Tao | |||
Morgaine Dinova: Ah yeah, Sai's issue with login flexibility for interop | |||
Gareth Ellison: but i think that was dismissed somewhat | |||
Saijanai Kuhn: Will be Dahlia | |||
Tao Takashi: cool :) | |||
Gareth Ellison: ah yeah - login steps | |||
Tao Takashi: where is your blog anyway? | |||
Zha Ewry: Need to talk to PR and oddly, some lindens about that | |||
Zero Linden: SO - Going once: Secretary, TCP bundles, Event Queue, IBM, Login in 3 Acts | |||
Zero Linden: Going twice | |||
Gareth Ellison: that seems to sum it up | |||
Zero Linden: GOing three times...... | |||
Dahlia Trimble: teleporting to other grids :) | |||
Gareth Ellison: oh, and bunnies, kittens and evil dogs | |||
Gareth Ellison: sorry | |||
Tao Takashi: and marketing ;-) | |||
Gareth Ellison refrains | |||
Saijanai Kuhn covers ears | |||
Zero Linden: ..... SOLD! to the tall thin avatar on the wall.... | |||
Jennifer Gallindo: I agree, multigrid TP | |||
Morgaine Dinova: Heh | |||
Trex Yao: including not ll grinds? | |||
Gareth Ellison: ok, zero - tell us about the secretary...... | |||
Trex Yao: grinds* | |||
Trex Yao: grids* | |||
Trex Yao: argg | |||
Dahlia Trimble: before someone else invents it first | |||
Saijanai Kuhn grinds evilly | |||
Zero Linden: Okay - my issue is quick: I'd like this group to have not just a transcript posted, but a consices summary of | |||
what was discussed and top high levelpoints made | |||
Zha Ewry nods | |||
ShiftyGuy Trenchcoat: I still say you need to ban prokofy before you try and fix sl. | |||
Zero Linden: I'm thinking about ten or so lines per session | |||
Lalinda Lovell: i can do that | |||
Mick Schonberg: hi everyone | |||
Lalinda Lovell: i work for IBM | |||
Lalinda Lovell: not | |||
Gareth Ellison: that is a VERY good idea | |||
Gareth Ellison: the transcripts tend to be long and full of padding | |||
Lalinda Lovell: like clown pants | |||
Gareth Ellison: throw it in with the agenda | |||
Rex Cronon: i don't think prokofy will write any code, so why u need to ban? | |||
Saijanai Kuhn: bad jokes about exploding non-avi furry creatures | |||
Zero Linden: What I'd like is for folks interested to take a stab at it this week and next and we'll see what works best | |||
Gareth Ellison: and show the outcome of each agenda point | |||
Lalinda Lovell: best man wins, good idea | |||
Zero Linden: Or woman, or furry, or evil robot, or.... | |||
Colton Linden: or puppet | |||
Mick Schonberg: Hey! | |||
Saijanai Kuhn: so, Lalinda volunteers for secretary? | |||
Gareth Ellison: that reminds me, i didn't get round to knocking out my l33t code for the SLGOGP auto-generated | |||
code.......... | |||
Lalinda Lovell: yes i do | |||
Zero Linden: So - if you want to try your hand at it - just do it and stick the summary somewher off the office hours pages | |||
Saijanai Kuhn: all opposed? | |||
Zero Linden: Thanks | |||
Saijanai Kuhn: They ayes have it | |||
Lalinda Lovell: starting with this meeting right? | |||
Morgaine Dinova: Zero: easy enough to do in wiki format. Someone can segment the discussion page into topics, and then each | |||
party that led the topic can pad it out. | |||
Zero Linden: No time like the present | |||
Lalinda Lovell: ok | |||
Zero Linden: remember, goal is short, clear | |||
Zero Linden: Okay - onward | |||
Zero Linden: Bundles of TCP - | |||
Zero Linden: Did I hear BEEP? | |||
Gareth Ellison: specifically splitting off priority messages if needed | |||
Zero Linden: Or were we just talking about keeping more than one event queu open? | |||
Saijanai Kuhn: well, the wrry was about EventQueueGet handlign both agent update packets and massive textures | |||
Gareth Ellison: in case main event queue gets bogged down | |||
Gareth Ellison: ah yeah, links to large events | |||
Gareth Ellison: event queue has this: | |||
Gareth Ellison: {'event':'myevent','body':{blablabla}} | |||
Gareth Ellison: or | |||
Gareth Ellison: {'event':'myevent',link:' | |||
https://mysim/events/blabla | |||
'} | |||
Gareth Ellison: or some other format, mini format details can be decided on later | |||
Morgaine Dinova: Zero: well the subjects stemmed from noting that different types of downstream traffic really required | |||
different urgency and had different requirements. | |||
Zero Linden: as in { 'event':'mybigpayloadevent', link: ' | |||
https://mysim/come-and-get-it-when-you-are-ready/.... | |||
' } | |||
Saijanai Kuhn: specifically if large numbers of textures get interwoven with fast update events | |||
Gareth Ellison: yeah, we need some to arrive out of band basically | |||
Morgaine Dinova: But it seemed a good approach in general --- everything down one pipe doesn't seem the right approach. | |||
Gareth Ellison: that's a good one zero :) | |||
Zha Ewry nods | |||
Gareth Ellison: so, 2 points really | |||
Gareth Ellison: out of band events that need higher priority | |||
Gareth Ellison: and big events | |||
Gareth Ellison: the latter using links | |||
Zero Linden: Right - so the HTTP Texture design does this - the message contins the CAP to the texture, the texture isn't | |||
pushed down the event queue | |||
Gareth Ellison: exactly | |||
Zha Ewry: Also, the absent teraveasu, was very concerned about.. http get speed, vs. udp tecxture load | |||
Zero Linden: perhaps we should set guidlines on maximum data that should be presented viat hte event queue | |||
Zero Linden: then the question is | |||
Gareth Ellison: though one could imagine big piles of object updates could go there too | |||
Saijanai Kuhn: alright, that was my main concern. And its flexable | |||
Gareth Ellison: you read my mind zero :) | |||
Zero Linden: do we need to do this generically (defined the link: option) or do we leave it for each protocol to descide | |||
Zero Linden: ? | |||
Trex Yao: are you talking about a explorer? | |||
Gareth Ellison: if event_size>N use_link | |||
Gareth Ellison: where N is a maximum size per event | |||
Zero Linden: Right | |||
Zero Linden: I think we are all ont he same wavelength | |||
Gareth Ellison: yay | |||
Saijanai Kuhn: could even be settable at runtime | |||
Morgaine Dinova: Zero: why set any maximum? I don't see how that fall out of anything | |||
Nite Zelmanov: Maximum sizes are going to be subject to change, I think the client should specify it's desired options for | |||
multiple event queues | |||
Zero Linden: We should architect so that there is never more than n-ms. latentcy in getting an expected queue | |||
Gareth Ellison: so you never get bogged down with 1 huge event | |||
Gareth Ellison: set a maximum event size | |||
Gareth Ellison: that's a point | |||
Dahlia Trimble: is there a maximum now? | |||
Gareth Ellison: ideally the queue should never exceed a certain delay between events |
Revision as of 14:28, 8 April 2008
Zero Linden: Full house = sign of success!
Zha Ewry: Dead laptop on its way to be fixed. I want my FPS back
Gareth Ellison: down to business ladies and gentlemen?
Lalinda Lovell: and puppies
Jennifer Gallindo: hehe
Saijanai Kuhn: full house = spammariffic avatar
Gareth Ellison throws an orange at zero
Lalinda Lovell: sai bad spammer
Mastorian Kingsford: couch
Morgaine Dinova: Zero: "full house" == "hit scalability limit" :-))
Zero Linden: Well all - welcome to my "scalability limit" office hours
Morgaine Dinova: Hehe
Gypsy Paz: lol
Tao Takashi: Hi
Gareth Ellison: if the sim was coded in python with live REPL zero could dynamically turn off server-side features to
decrease lag ;)
ShiftyGuy Trenchcoat: seriously
Rex Cronon: zero might need to put his office at corner of 4 sims:)
Mastorian Kingsford: lmao
Tao Takashi: or simply use IRC ;-)
Zero Linden: What? and loose our intimate little chats?
Zero Linden: Never!
Gareth Ellison: IRC is actually sane
Kiefer Schuttelanz: IRCap
Gareth Ellison: or at least a bridge
Kiefer Schuttelanz: xD
Lalinda Lovell: use irc and we all save money
Gareth Ellison: i'd go for a bridge
ShiftyGuy Trenchcoat: seriously
ShiftyGuy Trenchcoat: I don't need to buy shirts on IRC
Gareth Ellison: scrap SL and this whole metaverse thing, let's just all go to IRC
Zha Ewry: Dog food, eating of same
Tao Takashi: lets make IRC interoperable instead!
Lalinda Lovell: irc.secondlife.net
Zero Linden: Wow - You're right - IRC is the way!
Rookiie Roux: hehe
Gareth Ellison puts on his ninja robe and cloak
ShiftyGuy Trenchcoat: we need irc with avatars
Gareth Ellison: hey, how about 3D avatars?
Trex Yao: .. Lalinda Lovell: sorry (TM)
Gareth Ellison: in a 3D world?
Gareth Ellison: with scripts
ShiftyGuy Trenchcoat: oh yeah!
ShiftyGuy Trenchcoat: that too!
Tao Takashi: we might invent some way to create objects in IRC
Rex Cronon: such a novel idea:)
Gareth Ellison: hey, split it up into parcels of land
Zero Linden: And the spec is already written!
Gareth Ellison: across servers
Gareth Ellison: wow!
Zero Linden: Okay----
Saijanai Kuhn: And lag. Dont' forget the lag
Gareth Ellison: we can call it second reality
ShiftyGuy Trenchcoat: except there would be way more cool than sl
Gareth Ellison: ok, onto business
Gareth Ellison: zero - agenda
Zero Linden: Yes - agenda
Lalinda Lovell: and we can all see eachs ip and dos each other
Lalinda Lovell: jk
Zero Linden: so far no one has made use of my spiffy agenda section on the Wiki
Morgaine Dinova: Ah yeah, the lag must be part of the spec, or it wouldn't be authentic
Saijanai Kuhn: had two issues pop up in dicussion. Mine and everyone else's
Gareth Ellison: how about we all throw up what was said in AWGroupies meeting?
Lalinda Lovell: not all of you please
Zero Linden: So - I have one item - a secretary
Lalinda Lovell: it lasted 9 hours didnt it
Saijanai Kuhn: ?
Lalinda Lovell: you want a secretary zero?
Lalinda Lovell: i have a pen
ShiftyGuy Trenchcoat: wow
ShiftyGuy Trenchcoat: so few people on voice
Saijanai Kuhn: for handling SLGOGP?
Gareth Ellison: no transcripts on voice
Tao Takashi still wants a better name and URL :)
ShiftyGuy Trenchcoat: right
Zero Linden: Well, let's not throw up... present? What is the topic?
Rex Cronon: ip?
Lalinda Lovell: slgogp is the worst, whatever is it change it
Morgaine Dinova: Zero: one thing that came up in AW Groupies meeting was to use a bundle of TCP streams instead of just one
held open by 1.1. That could improve various thinks, and allow prioritization too.
Gareth Ellison: at AWG we discussed event queues
Gareth Ellison: yeah, i mentioned the case of various exploding cute animals
Tao Takashi: we mostly discussed IBM ;-)
Gareth Ellison: i.e important events
Zero Linden: okay, do we need IBM on the agenda here?
Saijanai Kuhn didn't want to hear about the bunnies
Tao Takashi: not for me
Jennifer Gallindo: IBM would be good Morgaine Dinova: No more bunnies pls
Jennifer Gallindo: hehe
Gareth Ellison: important events not getting bogged down in event queues and multiple such event queus to compensate
Gypsy Paz: yeah, I'd like to hear more about IBM
Gareth Ellison: no more bunnies
Gareth Ellison: i promise
Zero Linden: I've got so far: Secretary, Event Queue/Bundles of TCP
Saijanai Kuhn: Zha covered IBM but not everyone was at the Groupies meeting
Saijanai Kuhn: login needs three parts not two
Tao Takashi: Zha should blog about it ;-)
Zero Linden: Okay, well, I'll grant IBM a few minutes
Gareth Ellison: possibility of edge touching sims, opensim mods with the IBM subgrid
Dahlia Trimble: are there transcripts for awg?
Zero Linden: Sai? Okay, I'll add that
Zha Ewry: On my list, Tao
Morgaine Dinova: Ah yeah, Sai's issue with login flexibility for interop
Gareth Ellison: but i think that was dismissed somewhat
Saijanai Kuhn: Will be Dahlia
Tao Takashi: cool :)
Gareth Ellison: ah yeah - login steps
Tao Takashi: where is your blog anyway?
Zha Ewry: Need to talk to PR and oddly, some lindens about that
Zero Linden: SO - Going once: Secretary, TCP bundles, Event Queue, IBM, Login in 3 Acts
Zero Linden: Going twice
Gareth Ellison: that seems to sum it up
Zero Linden: GOing three times......
Dahlia Trimble: teleporting to other grids :)
Gareth Ellison: oh, and bunnies, kittens and evil dogs
Gareth Ellison: sorry
Tao Takashi: and marketing ;-)
Gareth Ellison refrains
Saijanai Kuhn covers ears
Zero Linden: ..... SOLD! to the tall thin avatar on the wall....
Jennifer Gallindo: I agree, multigrid TP
Morgaine Dinova: Heh
Trex Yao: including not ll grinds?
Gareth Ellison: ok, zero - tell us about the secretary......
Trex Yao: grinds*
Trex Yao: grids*
Trex Yao: argg
Dahlia Trimble: before someone else invents it first
Saijanai Kuhn grinds evilly
Zero Linden: Okay - my issue is quick: I'd like this group to have not just a transcript posted, but a consices summary of
what was discussed and top high levelpoints made
Zha Ewry nods
ShiftyGuy Trenchcoat: I still say you need to ban prokofy before you try and fix sl.
Zero Linden: I'm thinking about ten or so lines per session
Lalinda Lovell: i can do that
Mick Schonberg: hi everyone
Lalinda Lovell: i work for IBM
Lalinda Lovell: not
Gareth Ellison: that is a VERY good idea
Gareth Ellison: the transcripts tend to be long and full of padding
Lalinda Lovell: like clown pants
Gareth Ellison: throw it in with the agenda
Rex Cronon: i don't think prokofy will write any code, so why u need to ban?
Saijanai Kuhn: bad jokes about exploding non-avi furry creatures
Zero Linden: What I'd like is for folks interested to take a stab at it this week and next and we'll see what works best
Gareth Ellison: and show the outcome of each agenda point
Lalinda Lovell: best man wins, good idea
Zero Linden: Or woman, or furry, or evil robot, or....
Colton Linden: or puppet
Mick Schonberg: Hey!
Saijanai Kuhn: so, Lalinda volunteers for secretary?
Gareth Ellison: that reminds me, i didn't get round to knocking out my l33t code for the SLGOGP auto-generated
code..........
Lalinda Lovell: yes i do
Zero Linden: So - if you want to try your hand at it - just do it and stick the summary somewher off the office hours pages
Saijanai Kuhn: all opposed?
Zero Linden: Thanks
Saijanai Kuhn: They ayes have it
Lalinda Lovell: starting with this meeting right?
Morgaine Dinova: Zero: easy enough to do in wiki format. Someone can segment the discussion page into topics, and then each
party that led the topic can pad it out.
Zero Linden: No time like the present
Lalinda Lovell: ok
Zero Linden: remember, goal is short, clear
Zero Linden: Okay - onward
Zero Linden: Bundles of TCP -
Zero Linden: Did I hear BEEP?
Gareth Ellison: specifically splitting off priority messages if needed
Zero Linden: Or were we just talking about keeping more than one event queu open?
Saijanai Kuhn: well, the wrry was about EventQueueGet handlign both agent update packets and massive textures
Gareth Ellison: in case main event queue gets bogged down
Gareth Ellison: ah yeah, links to large events
Gareth Ellison: event queue has this:
Gareth Ellison: {'event':'myevent','body':{blablabla}}
Gareth Ellison: or
Gareth Ellison: {'event':'myevent',link:' https://mysim/events/blabla '}
Gareth Ellison: or some other format, mini format details can be decided on later
Morgaine Dinova: Zero: well the subjects stemmed from noting that different types of downstream traffic really required
different urgency and had different requirements.
Zero Linden: as in { 'event':'mybigpayloadevent', link: ' https://mysim/come-and-get-it-when-you-are-ready/.... ' }
Saijanai Kuhn: specifically if large numbers of textures get interwoven with fast update events
Gareth Ellison: yeah, we need some to arrive out of band basically
Morgaine Dinova: But it seemed a good approach in general --- everything down one pipe doesn't seem the right approach.
Gareth Ellison: that's a good one zero :)
Zha Ewry nods
Gareth Ellison: so, 2 points really
Gareth Ellison: out of band events that need higher priority
Gareth Ellison: and big events
Gareth Ellison: the latter using links
Zero Linden: Right - so the HTTP Texture design does this - the message contins the CAP to the texture, the texture isn't
pushed down the event queue
Gareth Ellison: exactly
Zha Ewry: Also, the absent teraveasu, was very concerned about.. http get speed, vs. udp tecxture load
Zero Linden: perhaps we should set guidlines on maximum data that should be presented viat hte event queue
Zero Linden: then the question is
Gareth Ellison: though one could imagine big piles of object updates could go there too
Saijanai Kuhn: alright, that was my main concern. And its flexable
Gareth Ellison: you read my mind zero :)
Zero Linden: do we need to do this generically (defined the link: option) or do we leave it for each protocol to descide
Zero Linden: ?
Trex Yao: are you talking about a explorer?
Gareth Ellison: if event_size>N use_link
Gareth Ellison: where N is a maximum size per event
Zero Linden: Right
Zero Linden: I think we are all ont he same wavelength
Gareth Ellison: yay
Saijanai Kuhn: could even be settable at runtime
Morgaine Dinova: Zero: why set any maximum? I don't see how that fall out of anything
Nite Zelmanov: Maximum sizes are going to be subject to change, I think the client should specify it's desired options for
multiple event queues
Zero Linden: We should architect so that there is never more than n-ms. latentcy in getting an expected queue
Gareth Ellison: so you never get bogged down with 1 huge event
Gareth Ellison: set a maximum event size
Gareth Ellison: that's a point
Dahlia Trimble: is there a maximum now?
Gareth Ellison: ideally the queue should never exceed a certain delay between events