Pathfinding in Second Life/2012-05-10

[16:02] Lorca Linden: hey all [16:02] Lorca Linden: sorry pathtest1 is down again [16:02] Rex Cronon: greetings [16:02] Lorca Linden: we're cursed ;) [16:02] Lorca Linden: alright well let's get started [16:03] Lorca Linden: first thing I want to ask : has anyone in this group had the chance to play around with the height defaults for characters? [16:03] any1 Gynoid: WB Nathan! HH Advanced Scripting Teacher... u rock and stuff! [16:03] any1 Gynoid: WB Brota! [16:03] Dahlia Trimble: <.< >.> [16:03] Nathan Zetkin: smiles [16:03] Lorca Linden: anyone, anyone, Buler? [16:03] Sandry Logan: yes a bit. but i have had nothing to show because the "animations" were broken [16:03] any1 Gynoid: Hiya Sandry! Nice to meet u! [16:05] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: Lorca Linden (4m) [16:05] Shimmering RiftShimmering Rift crackles with electricity. [16:05] Entering god mode, level 200 [16:06] Teleport completed from secondlife://Aditi/secondlife/LI%20Devbox%202/133/100/23 [16:07] Teleport completed from secondlife://Aditi/secondlife/PathDev4/97/184/41 [16:07] Motor Loon: good timing [16:07] Mæstro Linden: Welcome to DRTSIM-100D 12.05.10.256426 [16:07] Lorca Linden: i'm back ;) [16:07] Mæstro Linden: which hopefully has the crash fix [16:07] Motor Loon: guess we'll see ,-) [16:07] Lorca Linden: so we really need feedback on height defaults asap for that feedback to be actionable [16:08] Sandry Logan: is there an update to the pathfinding servers on agni too? [16:08] Falcon Linden: That was fun! [16:08] Falcon Linden: Sandry: tomorrow [16:08] Ima Mechanique: sheesh it was hard work getting here [16:08] Sandry Logan: ok [16:08] Falcon Linden: ima: the region went down to restart on the new version right as we got started :) [16:08] Lorca Linden: it was a planned demonstration [16:08] Ima Mechanique: I crashed or was logged 3-4 times [16:08] Dahlia Trimble: me too [16:09] Sandry Logan: i have been hoping that the fixes for llSetRot et al were coming because it seemed pointless to say i had anything to show you guys wrt heights when it all looked so terrible without animation [16:09] Lorca Linden: yeah, some hiccups with the code migration I imagine [16:09] Falcon Linden: I think it's fixed? [16:09] Falcon Linden: Maestro? [16:09] Sandry Logan: it is here, for quite a few days, but i don't have it on agni yet [16:09] Falcon Linden: ah, then tomorrow [16:09] any1 Gynoid: I'm satisfied it's fixed on Aditi..... not agni... ohhh good! [16:10] Falcon Linden: barring any unforeseen problems with this version [16:10] Sandry LoganSandry Logan smiles cool [16:10] Mæstro Linden: Well, the really depends on whether the crasher was really fixed with this new version [16:10] Mæstro Linden: *that really [16:10] Falcon Linden: it was. [16:10] Lorca Linden: so if you all can play around with the height values in the next week, that would be awesome [16:10] Falcon Linden: maybe. [16:11] Lorca Linden: falcon, do you have anyting in particular on the agenda to discuss, or shall we open it up to questions? [16:11] Falcon Linden: Not particularly. Just a reminder about those llWanderWithin changes [16:11] Rex Cronon: thank u:) [16:11] Lorca Linden: yup, oh and also any suggestions as to the ABCD value defalt names? [16:11] Falcon Linden: oh, and it turns out I found a way to muck with the CHARACTER_TYPEs without requiring you to recompile your scripts [16:11] Falcon Linden: so yay [16:12] And all I got was this lousy DN: timing on that could have been better:P [16:12] Falcon Linden: and llGetClosestNavPoint now takes CHARACTER_TYPE and CLOSEST_NAV_POINT_RADIUS arguments [16:12] Lorca Linden: we are thinking Animal, Vegtable, Mineral, and things that do not start with the letter m [16:12] Falcon Linden: correction, that's GET_NAV_POINT_RADIUS [16:13] any1 Gynoid: man, woman, humanoid NPCs.... would be nice to be within your scope [16:13] Falcon Linden: men and women usually walk on different surfaces? [16:13] Mæstro Linden: well [16:13] Lorca Linden: yeah, in seriousness we have considered humaniod, creature, mechanical, and other [16:13] Mæstro Linden: you may set the walkability of the men's room, and vice-versa [16:13] Lorca Linden: or biped, quadraped, vehicle, and other [16:13] Motor Loon: Men walk on livingroom surface, Women talk on kitchensurfaces [16:13] Motor Loon: °͜° [16:13] Falcon Linden: maestro: true. But rare. :P [16:14] Sandry Logan: i rather liked the one Maestro suggested with biped, pet, wild animal, vehicle [16:14] Mæstro Linden: Yeah, I think it would be useful to segregate by function [16:14] Falcon Linden: That has the problem of not providing an "other" [16:14] Mæstro Linden: hm [16:14] Falcon Linden: it is most useful to segregate by function [16:14] Dahlia Trimble: whats difference between wild animal and pet? [16:14] Falcon Linden: I'd consider blending all animals [16:14] Lorca Linden: those are good defaults, but I like having an "other" bucket if possible [16:14] Falcon Linden: Dahlia: probably that wild animals wouldn't walk on paths/inside [16:14] Mæstro Linden: like maybe you wouldn't let wild animals in your house, but would allow your cat inside [16:14] Falcon Linden: thing is, you probably shouldn't rely on walkability to do that. You need a fence. :) [16:15] Mæstro Linden: that's true [16:15] Dahlia Trimble: probably but sometimes they get in the house :( [16:15] Theresa Tennyson: My cat sneaks out anyway. [16:15] Falcon Linden: Yeah, so I'd vote for [16:15] Sandry Logan: as someone involved primarily with animals i liked the idea, but yeah, the biped, quad, vehicle, other probably gives a better scope [16:15] Falcon Linden: Humanoid, Non-human animal, vehicle (mechnical?), other [16:15] Mæstro Linden: sure [16:16] Sandry Logan: something like that [16:16] Mæstro Linden: falcon, so would the constants keep the same name? [16:16] Falcon Linden: yes [16:16] Rex Cronon: i don't think it matters how u call the types, what matters what type of locomotion they use [16:16] Dahlia Trimble: I was kinda thinking small thingie, largest avatar capsule, vehicle, and maybe a tiny thingie [16:16] MaV: elemental :P [16:16] Falcon Linden: we might provide additional constants for convenience [16:16] Mæstro Linden: what are we deciding, exactly? just the suggestions in the wiki page? [16:16] Falcon Linden: for the UI [16:16] Mæstro Linden: Okay [16:16] Falcon Linden: and maybe new convenience constants for lsl [16:16] Dahlia Trimble: is it just height, or is there a radius also? [16:16] Motor Loon: seems clever enough [16:17] Falcon Linden: dahlia: this is separate from the height issue [16:17] Lorca Linden: yeah we want the suggestions in the UI maestro, not enough people will ever read our wiki [16:17] claudia222 Jewell: for birds for example [16:17] Lorca Linden: <---- is a realist on such things [16:17] Falcon Linden: but characters have both a height and a radius. If they're horizontal, their height is really their length [16:17] Rex Cronon: u can something like: crawlers, walkers, jumpers, flyers? [16:17] Falcon Linden: claudia222: birds don't work very well. The only way to make them work would involve invisible platforms which couldn't connect to the ground anyway [16:17] Rex Cronon: u can have * [16:17] Mæstro Linden: Alright, that crasher is fixed! This build might be a good candidate for Agni after all! [16:18] And all I got was this lousy DN: lol [16:18] any1 Gynoid: wwoot [16:18] MaV: you tried to crash us all? :P [16:18] Falcon Linden: rex: anything can jump. llExecCharacterCmd(CHARACTER_CMD_JUMP, [float height])...or something like that [16:18] Falcon Linden: maestro: but do the wandering changes work? :P [16:18] Falcon Linden: let's find out. Come with me [16:19] Mæstro Linden: haven't tried yet [16:21] draconis.neurocam: where did we go? [16:21] draconis.neurocam: or [16:23] Lorca Linden: hmm [16:23] Falcon Linden: (where you actually do care about updating them each frame) [16:24] TheBlack Box: i wonder what amounts of characters per sim will we a reasonable maximum ? [16:24] Falcon Linden: so we still strongly recommend you change your objects to walkable/static obstacle where possible [16:24] TheBlack Box: what should we expect ? [16:24] Falcon Linden: We estimate that in a well crafted region, each character should take about 50us to simulate [16:24] Mæstro Linden: Hm Falcon, perhaps the viewer should flag that condition? [16:24] Nathan Zetkin: does HTTP_BODY_MAXLENGTH work on pathfinding sims? [16:24] Falcon Linden: Maestro: no. Too much work too often [16:24] any1 Gynoid: <-- done some stress tests... 5 X Spare Time will avoid any noticable lag... http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-785902 [16:25] Mæstro Linden: Nathan : probably, if it works on the main channel? Give it a try :) [16:25] Falcon Linden: any1: until you have some agents log in [16:25] Nathan Zetkin: I tried it a few days ago and it didn't [16:25] Rex Cronon: why the move? [16:25] Nathan Zetkin: this was on agni [16:25] any1 Gynoid: i think we need some user LSL... that manages number of NPCs... based on available spare time.. [16:26] Falcon Linden: We actually have code for that that we plan to release [16:26] any1 Gynoid: plus NPC crashes [16:26] any1 Gynoid: very cool! [16:26] Falcon Linden: sample code that manages the number of NPCs [16:26] Falcon Linden: is llGetCharacterTime documented, maestro? [16:26] Mæstro Linden: it's not a function, [16:26] Mæstro Linden: it's a flag for llGetObjectDetails [16:26] MaV: oh that [16:26] Mæstro Linden: OBJECT_CHARACTER_TIME, I think? units in seconds [16:26] MaV: i was about to ask about it :P [16:26] Falcon Linden: Maestro: yeah, that [16:27] Lorca Linden: actually we made a lot of use of that feature in the wilderness, we build a variable rezzers system that modulates how many environmental creatures are released into each region based on server performacne and individual script time [16:27] Mæstro Linden: that may not be in the wiki, since I don't know how to flag it for "this only works in pathfinding" [16:27] Lorca Linden: it's worked really well and allowed us to significantly increase the # of pathfinding creatures in the wilderness under most circumstances [16:27] any1 Gynoid: excellent!... love hearing this! [16:27] MaV: any other not listed? :P [16:27] Falcon Linden: One way that you can detect that your NPC has gotten into a bad state is to watch for times exceeding 7.5e-5 (that's 75us) [16:28] Lorca Linden: we will release the tmemplates for our master rezzers in the wilderness when pathfinding goes live, the character level script performance monitorinig was really useful [16:28] Falcon Linden: we've found that most characters take about 50us per frame under normal conditions [16:28] TheBlack Box: thanks ! [16:28] Falcon Linden: also, has anyone experimented with pathfinding enabled doors? [16:28] Falcon Linden: I have an example script somewhere from a resident who was kind enough to build an example house with autorezzing door [16:28] MaV: if you set them as static they brake :P [16:28] Falcon Linden: That will be made available at some point too [16:28] MaV: break* [16:29] Falcon Linden: The correct solution is for the walkable house to rez out its door [16:29] Falcon Linden: and for the door to use llSetKeyframedMotion [16:29] Mæstro Linden: you can still use llSetRot() if you don't care about looks, of course [16:29] Falcon Linden: that was done for the doors in the wilderness, also [16:29] TheBlack Box: i really only experiment with a thing i have been worlking on that is similar to Polyworld (simulated ecolution stuff) .... with pathfinding that is a lot of fun [16:29] Falcon Linden: Maestro: no, you can't [16:29] Falcon Linden: Maestro: if you do, the navmesh won't update immediately. :P [16:29] Mæstro Linden: hmph, okay [16:30] Falcon Linden: llSetPos and llSetRot incur significant penalties, so they are throttled in terms of their effect on the navmesh [16:30] Falcon Linden: also, an object that changes its shape is HUGELY throttled. We will process only one such change per second for the entire region [16:30] Falcon Linden: (the policy is fair in that every object will get its turn...eventually) [16:31] Falcon Linden: and I mean that we throttle the affect on the navmesh, not the actual change. So the shape will change and the navmesh will be wrong for a while. [16:31] Falcon Linden: Translation: don't make objects that change their physical shape :) [16:31] Rex Cronon: by changing shape do u mean increasing/decreasing its size? [16:31] any1 Gynoid: what about NPCs that change shape? they are not part of navmesh [16:31] Mæstro Linden: Rex: either that or something like changing the pathcut setting [16:31] Falcon Linden: Rex: changing size or primitive params [16:31] Mæstro Linden: or changing between box/sphere or something [16:32] Falcon Linden: any1: They can change size freely with llUpdateCharacter [16:32] Falcon Linden: If you're changing the size up, we will reject the change if it causes the character to penetrate a wall or floor, etc. [16:33] And all I got was this lousy DN: what about changing a sphere into a box and back? [16:33] Mæstro Linden: Falcon, wouldn't that cause most changes that make the character taller to be blocked? [16:33] Falcon Linden: So make sure you have enough room, or let us handle that automatically, but that's expected behavior (that in a tight space a character can't go from crawling to standing, e.g.) [16:33] Falcon Linden: maestro: I was wondering about that. [16:33] Mæstro Linden: or would you automatically move the character upwards according to the new height? [16:33] Falcon Linden: probably. You would need to llSetPos() first... [16:33] Falcon Linden: but we don't [16:33] Falcon Linden: we don't move it upward. We probably should [16:33] rotation demo (11 joint) 003 v.20070930.a: Left click the base cube to start/stop the demo [16:33] Falcon Linden: lag. [16:34] Falcon Linden: "We probably should, but we don't" [16:34] Rex Cronon: or switching between prim, sculptie and mesh? [16:34] any1 Gynoid: <-- thinking mostly about "ambulating" characters.. walking motions.. mostly deal with llSetRot changes [16:34] Dahlia Trimble: how about something like that? [16:34] Falcon Linden: rex: correct, though if it's a shape type none character, it's okay [16:34] Falcon Linden: any1: none of those will cause a problem so long as they're on child prims [16:34] any1 Gynoid: k great! thx [16:34] Falcon Linden: a character is always and only just a capsule. Its size and orientation can change, but that's it. [16:35] Sandry Logan: speaking of shapoe none.... i read in one of the other meeting transcripts about a change in the way that LI will be caculated and capping the streaming cost at the number of primitives in a linkset. is there any news of when this might happen? [16:35] Mæstro Linden: you can also rescale the root prim of a character without any physical effect [16:35] Falcon Linden: Sandry: that change is already on agni in pathfinding regions except for a bug affecting sculpts that will be fixed with tomorrow's deploy [16:35] Mæstro Linden: It's done in this version, Sandy [16:35] Sandry Logan: ok cool. thank you :c) [16:36] Falcon Linden: Maestro: right. Changing the root prim's scale does not automatically update the character's height/radius [16:36] Mæstro Linden: server cost is now num_prims*0.5 + num_scripts*0.25 [16:36] Nathan Zetkin: yay [16:36] Falcon Linden: and sculpts can have a streaming cost of up to 2 [16:36] Mæstro Linden: streaming cost is capped at 1.0 for legacy prims and 2.0 for sculpts [16:36] Falcon Linden: physics cost is unchanged as it continues to accurately reflect simulator load :) [16:37] Sandry Logan: oh, so my LI may still increase [16:37] Falcon Linden: no [16:37] Mæstro Linden: well, it can [16:37] Falcon Linden: oh, you mean on account of physics? [16:37] Falcon Linden: Yes [16:37] Falcon Linden: Make your physics shape better and it will go down :) [16:37] Mæstro Linden: if your linkset is mostly sculpts, you can have a higher LI due to streaming cost [16:38] Mæstro Linden: like 30 sculpts in a linkset will have a LI of up to 60, if the sculpts are all big [16:38] Mæstro Linden: due to streaming cost [16:38] Falcon Linden: in no case will the LI be higher than it used to be for mesh accounting based builds. It's just that moving to the new accounting may cause the cost to go up if the build contains sculpts or bad physics shapes [16:39] Lorca Linden: any other questions on that topic [16:39] Lorca Linden: ? [16:39] Falcon Linden: or in general? [16:39] any1 Gynoid: silly question... are you talking real money here? or just server / lag load? [16:39] Dahlia Trimble: dynamic linksets? [16:39] Falcon Linden: just Land Impact [16:40] Falcon Linden: dahlia: as in physical? [16:40] Dahlia Trimble: such as those which change pos/rot [16:40] Dahlia Trimble: like the example I rezzed there [16:40] TheBlack Box: those LI changes are for all legacy prims ? or just when a pathfinding character is inside ? [16:40] Falcon Linden: LI doesn't account for changes to pos/rot on nonphysical objects. On physical objects, there is a scale factor applied to the physics weight based on size [16:40] Falcon Linden: The changes apply to: [16:41] Falcon Linden: 1) Any linkset containing one or more meshes [16:41] Dahlia Trimble: I meant if it affects pathfinding [16:41] Dahlia Trimble: throttling and all that [16:41] Falcon Linden: 2) Any linkset containing one or more prims with a physics shape type other than "PRIM" [16:41] Mæstro Linden: By rights, an object like that should have a very high server cost since it slows the sim down significantly, but it doesn't [16:41] Falcon Linden: Dahlia: yes. But it's not throttled as heavily as shape changes [16:41] Falcon Linden: it still negatively impacts performance and can cause the entire region's pathfinding updates to be throttled [16:42] Dahlia Trimble: ah I see [16:42] MaV: do you think PATHBUG-32 will happen before PF getting released? [16:42] Jira Helper: [#PATHBUG-32] Add server support and UI elements to enable/disable Pathfinding https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/PATHBUG-32 [16:42] Falcon Linden: yeah, llSetPos and llSetRot and friends are bad mojo in general [16:42] TheBlack Box: k thanks [16:42] Dahlia Trimble: but the scripts are not throttled? [16:42] Falcon Linden: matu: not as UI elements, but via the sim console [16:42] MaV: ah nice [16:42] Lorca Linden: mav yes [16:42] Mæstro Linden: is it moving at full speed now, Dahlia? [16:42] Lorca Linden: for region owners [16:42] Falcon Linden: dahlia: no, scripts are not throttled except that if your changes cause you to have less spare time, there's less time for all scripts [16:42] Motor Loon: I think it'd be reasonable for EM's to disallow PF on a region [16:42] Dahlia Trimble: its trying lol [16:42] Dahlia Trimble: it should go faster [16:42] Falcon Linden: motor: yes, any EM will be able to enable/disable pathfinding via the console [16:43] Motor Loon: ok [16:43] Nathan Zetkin: will there ever be a pathfinding time in the statistics bar? [16:43] Falcon Linden: not specifically, no [16:43] Falcon Linden: it is lumped in with physics time [16:44] Mæstro Linden: It might be nice to have a category in Time Details for that part of physics time [16:44] Falcon Linden: if there's enough interest, we could at some point add an lsl call to fetch it [16:44] Falcon Linden: maestro: I'm not sure if that's an extensible message. [16:44] Falcon Linden: worth investigating, though [16:44] any1 Gynoid: <-- burning question... does SL pathfinding use Dijkstra's algorthim... or A* or D* or something more smexy and exotic? [16:44] Falcon Linden: A* [16:44] MaV: it wouldnt hurt to have it :P [16:45] Falcon Linden: A* for path searches, a proprietary local steering solution, dynamic navmesh modification, and a bunch of random code I added. [16:45] Falcon Linden: :P [16:45] TheBlack Box: i think it will become important to have as many tools as possible for pathfinding performance checks .... i guess simulated eco-systems will become a trend .... a merge of breedable SL pets and Polyworld-like simulated ecosystems [16:45] And all I got was this lousy DN: aka, undocumented features... :D [16:45] Falcon Linden: box: that...would be...awesome [16:46] Lorca Linden: as a side note, according to havok, this is the first time anyone has tried to impliment pathfinding in a large scale, 3d world with dynamic content creation [16:46] TheBlack Box: also reminds me of that early-days SL video with the creatures :) [16:46] Rex Cronon: just don't make rabbits. they will reproduce like crazy:) [16:46] Theresa Tennyson: Will pathfinding allow you to make rideable vehicles that follow roads? [16:46] Motor Loon: was just thinking of those old videos [16:46] Falcon Linden: Box: Apparently Philip noticed that, too, or so I'm told :) [16:46] And all I got was this lousy DNAnd all I got was this lousy DN makes tribbels [16:46] Falcon Linden: theresa: with care, yes [16:46] TheBlack Box: hehe great :) [16:47] Falcon Linden: but that's a fairly advanced thing to implement [16:47] Falcon Linden: but it should be possible [16:47] Dahlia Trimble: ya Im curious about self navigating vehicles also, how will they know how to stay on a road and on the proper side [16:47] Lorca Linden: ABCD values can be used for that purpose [16:47] And all I got was this lousy DN: thatll depends on what crountry the road is in [16:47] Rex Cronon: u put fences around the road? [16:47] Motor Loon: °͜° [16:47] Falcon Linden: Lorca: yeah, but that can't easily handle staying in your lane [16:47] TheBlack Box: Rex: funny thing is ... birth-rates are really a dangerorous thing to but into the genes for evolutionary creatures :) that gets wild fast [16:48] Falcon Linden: Probably an exclusion volume in the center divider would do it [16:48] Falcon Linden: a jersey divider would definitely do it [16:48] any1 Gynoid: if someone's going the wrong way round.. heaven help us all lol [16:48] Falcon Linden: intersections would be tricky [16:48] Theresa Tennyson: Right now, on my motorcycle I'm doing good if I stay on the road at all. [16:48] Theresa Tennyson: And I don't do good that often, [16:48] And all I got was this lousy DN: and upright [16:49] Falcon Linden: I say, make roads shared single lane :) [16:49] Falcon Linden: just...wide [16:49] Rex Cronon: u don't need pathfinding for vehicles to follow a predifined path [16:49] Falcon Linden: Rex is right, of course. [16:49] Mæstro Linden: Falcon, do you have that 'dukes of hazzard' type video link handy? [16:49] Falcon Linden: llSetKeyframedMotion is better [16:49] Mæstro Linden: that had a really good example of pathfinding vehicles [16:49] Mæstro Linden: (or Lorca) [16:49] Lorca Linden: Well, you could have them stay in the right lane so long as you used two character types, and set half of the road (via a volume) to 0% or am I missing something? [16:49] Falcon Linden: yeah, one sec [16:49] Falcon Linden: Lorca: which lane is "right" depends on your orientation [16:49] Dahlia Trimble: well something has to tell the script where the road is [16:50] Mæstro Linden: Hm, [16:50] Lorca Linden: yeah check out this video for a neat vehicle chase with pathfinding : [16:50] Lorca Linden: http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2012/04/impressive-sl-pathfinding-test-with-cars-is-impressive.html [16:50] any1 Gynoid: umm btw... at least my vision for pathfinding is to end vacant city streets... and forests... I don't want to go to Paris in SL.. and find it post apocalyptic deserted [16:50] Mæstro Linden: you could have the eastern lane in a north-south road by set to one type walkability [16:50] Falcon Linden: any1: that would rock. We really need to add animation for that [16:50] Mæstro Linden: and have it 10% walkable for type A (northbound) and 100% walkable for type B (southbound) [16:50] Mæstro Linden: then switch things up for the southbound traffic [16:51] Falcon Linden: I would like to, at some point, figure out a way to let you do llGetPath() [16:51] any1 Gynoid: <-- what my next class will do.... we can animate... no problem [16:51] Mæstro Linden: then cars could switch their character type when they take a turn [16:51] Falcon Linden: maybe we could support that if it only queried the uncut mesh. [16:51] Lorca Linden: I agree any1, and hopefully if we get a full fledged animation system in it could really bring many areas to life [16:51] Lorca Linden: Falcon and I are big proponents of that idea ;) [16:51] Falcon Linden: So it would give you back a path which would be correct as long as nothing on the path was set to moveable object [16:52] Falcon Linden: so it would work great for roads [16:52] Falcon Linden: and the path wouldn't need to be updated because it explicitly ignores moveable obstacles [16:53] Falcon Linden: it would be particularly handy for setting up trains/vehicles where you could do llGetPath() and then use those as inputs to llSetKeyframedMotion [16:53] Rex Cronon: u would have a motorcycle passing thorugh a bus:0 [16:53] Falcon Linden: true. [16:53] Theresa Tennyson: You've seen me on Route 8 then? [16:53] Dahlia Trimble: does llGetPath() exist yet? [16:53] Falcon Linden: but as long as you control the content in the region, it's no problem [16:53] Rex Cronon: :) [16:53] Falcon Linden: Dahlia: I just came up with the idea now :) [16:54] Dahlia Trimble: ah ok :) [16:54] Falcon Linden: at least, the key part of the idea: explicitly ignored movable obstacles [16:54] Dahlia Trimble: or get a new path when a collision occurs [16:54] Rex Cronon: i guess this is more of a brainstorming session:) [16:54] Ima Mechanique: Falcon, how current are the wiki pages for the LSL functions/constants? [16:55] Falcon Linden: moderately :P [16:55] Falcon Linden: Maestro might know better than I [16:56] Mæstro Linden: fairly [16:56] Mæstro Linden: which page? [16:56] TheBlack Box: oh btw ... is CHARACTER_MAX_TURN_SPEED fixed already ? earlier today i still had to use the integer value instead [16:56] Mæstro Linden: llWanderWithin() is totally up to date now [16:56] Lorca Linden: 5 minute warning [16:56] Ima Mechanique: well all of them really. I'm updating my master xml file with a few things wondered if it's worth going through them all again [16:56] Mæstro Linden: Hm, Falcon renamed CHARACTER_MAX_TURN_SPEED, i think? We should update the wiki for the new name [16:57] TheBlack Box: ah thanks [16:57] Mæstro Linden: (what is the new name?) [16:57] Theresa Tennyson: I see that when a region is set for pathfinding everything defaults to "movable." Is there a reason for that? [16:57] And all I got was this lousy DN: thats the default stting [16:57] MaV: to not break stuff suppose :P [16:57] Mæstro Linden: It's to avoid breaking content [16:57] Ima Mechanique: Ithat's CHARACTER_DESIRED_TURN_SPEED now yes? [16:57] Mæstro Linden: ah yes, that sounds right Ima [16:58] Ima Mechanique: I added that to my file last week [16:58] Falcon Linden: yes [16:58] Object: Hello, Avatar! [16:58] Lorca Linden: just a reminder : please play around with characterheights and comment on the JIRA by next week's meeting [16:58] Object: CHARACTER_DESIRED_TURN_SPEED = 12 [16:59] Lorca Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/PATHBUG-96 and https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/PATHBUG-95 [16:59] Jira Helper: [#PATHBUG-96] Suggested Character Types https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/PATHBUG-95 [16:59] Jira Helper: [#PATHBUG-95] Suggested Character Height https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/PATHBUG-95 [16:59] TheBlack Box: oh .. llPersue still stops too early for some reason i dont understand ... i tried to work around it with small offets+fuzzfactor .. but doesnt help [16:59] Lorca Linden: 60 seconds! [17:00] TheBlack Box: my creatures stop pursueing before they get into bite-range ... and then they starve :( [17:00] Mæstro Linden: It might be trying to avoid the target [17:00] Motor Loon: poor things [17:00] Mæstro Linden: try disabling that with CHARACTER_AVOIDANCE_MODE [17:00] Falcon Linden: Yep. [17:00] TheBlack Box: ok [17:00] Falcon Linden: also, there's PURSUIT_TOLERANCE [17:01] Falcon Linden: or maybe PURSUIT_GOAL_TOLERANCE [17:01] Mæstro Linden: .... yeah I don't think that's in the wiki yet [17:01] Falcon Linden: something involving pursuit and tolerance. It defaults to a number based on the size of your object, but you might want to set it lower [17:01] TheBlack Box: those params need some documentation i think [17:01] Lorca Linden: alright, that's a wrap for today. Same time same next week on pathtest1. Also, if you or anyone you know is interested in being part of the beta, tell them to email pathfinding-beta@lindenlab.com asap. It is likely we will just have 1 more batch of resident regions added. [17:01] Dahlia Trimble: ty Lindens :) [17:01] TheBlack Box: thanks :) [17:01] Mæstro Linden: CHARACTER_AVOIDANCE_MODE is pretty well covered in llCreateCharacter's page [17:01] Rex Cronon: at least list they name(hopefully their values too) [17:01] MaV: thanks [17:01] Falcon Linden: Very quickly, here are some of the newish params. I don't know if they're all on the wiki [17:01] Sandry Logan: thank you [17:01] Rex Cronon: tc everybody [17:02] Brota Kornfeld: tc [17:02] Mæstro Linden: thanks for coming [17:02] And all I got was this lousy DN: have a great friday, everyone [17:02] Mæstro Linden: okay update the 'CHARACTER_DESIRED_TURN_SPEED' name in the wiki [17:02] TheBlack Box: yes Maestro ... PURSUIT_GOAL_TOLERANCE / PURSUIT_TOLERANCE is new to me though [17:02] Falcon Linden: CHARACTER_CMD_SMOOTH_STOP, PURSUIT_GOAL_TOLERANCE, PATROL_PAUSE_AT_WAYPOINTS, WANDER_PAUSE_AT_WAYPOINTS, GET_NAV_POINT_RADIUS [17:02] Nathan Zetkin: have a good night all [17:02] Rex Cronon: have a nice everybody:) [17:02] Falcon Linden: night all [17:02] any1 Gynoid: great meeting! ty LL... and TY for FIXING PATHBUGS 109 and 110 .. U TOTALLY ROCK!!!! [17:02] claudia222 Jewell: bye all thanks [17:02] TheBlack Box: nighty [17:02] Nal: Thx [17:03] TheBlack Box: yes ... pathfinding has developed awesomely btw ! [17:03] Mæstro Linden: thanks guys [17:03] Lorca Linden: thanks! [17:03] Lorca Linden: and let us know if you have anything particularly cool, or bring some show and tell for the next user group [17:04] Ima Mechanique: damn, looks like new constants to add ;-) [17:04] Lorca Linden: have a great weekend all! [17:04] Brota Kornfeld: you should have them wait a while beofre hunting, most animals don't hunt on a full stomach [17:04] Brota Kornfeld: very cool toherwise :)