Bug triage/2008-03-10/Transcript

Agenda

Transcript of Aric Linden's office hours:

[12:03]	Aric Linden:	hello
[12:03]	Harleen Gretzky:	Hi Bridie :)
[12:03]	Harleen Gretzky:	Hi Aric :)
[12:03]	Squirrel Wood:	And I want to know if you can "toggle" the Linden last name on/off ?
[12:03]	Squirrel Wood:	Holla!
[12:04]	Harleen Gretzky:	Hi Maurice :)
[12:04]	Squirrel Wood:	Hellu Maurice!
[12:04]	Harleen Gretzky:	cool avatar
[12:04]	Squirrel Wood:	W00t!
[12:04]	Squirrel Wood:	Group chat worked for once!
[12:04]	Maurice Linden:	Hello all. And thanks Harleen. :-)
[12:04]	Aric Linden:	hi Harleen
[12:04]	Aric Linden:	how is everyone?
[12:05]	Squirrel Wood:	Alive and twitching!
[12:05]	Harleen Gretzky:	Great!
[12:05]	Squirrel Wood:	or was that itching?
[12:05]	Squirrel Wood:	I forget..
[12:05]	Bridie Linden:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/Monday_Agenda
[12:07]	Squirrel Wood:	1st one on the list I personally think is a bit unclear.. needs more info like, before / after screenshots to illustrate what should (not) be expected...
[12:07]	Harleen Gretzky:	Sounds logical
[12:08]	Aric Linden:	wow attendance has been dropping weekly.
[12:08]	Squirrel Wood:	I would assume that there is an adjacent sim there which would explain the result
[12:08]	Aric Linden:	it seems no one loves me anymore
[12:08]	Squirrel Wood:	need to advertise more
[12:08]	Soft Linden:	Actually, no - SVC-1806 is a pretty familiar issue. I know exactly what they're talking about...
[12:08]	Squirrel Wood:	hmm
[12:08]	Harleen Gretzky:	screenshot is kind of dark also, maybe take it at high noon, without rendering water
[12:09]	Squirrel Wood:	never run into this problem with my terraformer
[12:09]	Aric Linden:	you know this issue, soft?
[12:09]	Soft Linden:	You -always- get a pit or odd leveling if you try editing the terrain in the corner there. It looks like the terrain editing tools are reading off the end of the array and averaging some non-terrain data on the sim.
[12:10]	Soft Linden:	It's always the bit at around 0,1 that gets corrupted. This was happening back in '06 at least.
[12:10]	Soft Linden:	I remember because I had a plot there and it annoyed the hell out of me :)
[12:10]	Aric Linden:	heh
[12:11]	Aric Linden:	that sounds great. thanks
[12:11]	Soft Linden:	If you want to assign to me, I can add more details and a repro, then pass it to triage.
[12:11]	Aric Linden:	svc-1453 is next
[12:11]	Bridie Linden:	will do, Soft
[12:12]	Squirrel Wood:	llemail... not all too reliable as I've seen this happen with my vendors too
[12:13]	Squirrel Wood:	couple days ago when Winnie Linden tried to buy some fortune cookies
[12:13]	Soft Linden:	llemail should be documented as unreliable, really. We intentionally nuke the queue at times.
[12:14]	Soft Linden:	http requests are the only reliable mechanism afaik. We could import this for someone like Kelly to comment on, but I doubt it would change anything.
[12:14]	Squirrel Wood:	can you send llInstantMessage to objects in another sim?
[12:14]	Harleen Gretzky:	no
[12:14]	Squirrel Wood:	See, email is pretty much the only "ingame" way to communicate across the grid
[12:16]	Aric Linden:	Well, we could import the issue, but the question is still whether a change could be made to improve the behavior
[12:16]	Aric Linden:	Let's take it in for discussion. No commitments on solution
[12:16]	Soft Linden:	I'd fish around - I'm certain there will already be several redundant issues this could be linked to.
[12:17]	Aric Linden:	I'm sure of that too, Soft
[12:17]	Squirrel Wood:	Most likely
[12:17]	Soft Linden:	Internally I've seen 'em, and I'm betting externally too.
[12:17]	Aric Linden:	vwr-4580 is next
[12:17]	Aric Linden nods at soft
[12:17]	Squirrel Wood:	confirm 4580
[12:17]	Squirrel Wood:	Its happening
[12:17]	Squirrel Wood:	to me too
[12:18]	Aric Linden:	bridie, didn't we discuss this one in triage?
[12:18]	Aric Linden:	Do you remember the outcome of the conversation?
[12:18]	Soft Linden:	I think this may be intentional. It's certainly not high priority!
[12:18]	Squirrel Wood:	Its annoying sort of
[12:18]	Soft Linden:	It doesn't interfere with property line use, and it's not expected you're going to have that on as a beauty feature.
[12:19]	Bridie Linden:	I don't remember 4580
[12:19]	Squirrel Wood:	I prefer to have property lines on but I would prefer them to not be shown through objects
[12:19]	Aric Linden:	I remember the boundary lines question, it might have been while you were out
[12:19]	Bridie Linden:	Torley commented today
[12:20]	Aric Linden:	please import and assign to me. I need to discuss with steve
[12:20]	Soft Linden:	Actually, if you made property lines z-culled, then you couldn't use them for things like verifying your build is all on your parcel. "Fixing" this would take away functionality.
[12:20]	Harleen Gretzky:	I'm running the RC now and it is still happpening here
[12:20]	Aric Linden:	Soft, that's right. but WL changes the way the lines present
[12:20]	Aric Linden:	and I don't remember the details
[12:20]	Bridie Linden:	kk
[12:20]	Aric Linden is slowly melting into early senility
[12:20]	Squirrel Wood:	Problem is the big shaded areas at sim boundaries when the adjacent sim is not shown...
[12:21]	Aric Linden:	Squirrel, please comment the issue
[12:21]	Squirrel Wood:	willdo
[12:22]	Aric Linden:	shall we move onto vwr-5372?
[12:22]	Harleen Gretzky:	Argent's comments may give you more info also
[12:22]	Bridie Linden:	Torley already got this one
[12:22]	Aric Linden:	actually I did
[12:22]	Squirrel Wood:	I'll comment later and add a screenshot
[12:23]	Aric Linden:	wait, nope, it was torley
[12:23]	Soft Linden:	So I saw that pop up dialog for the first time this weekend - that was pretty alarming.
[12:23]	Aric Linden:	Bridie, we should track this as a concern for finalizing the rc
[12:23]	Soft Linden:	The fact that [FINALQUERY] isn't filled in is a bug of its own worth creating.
[12:24]	Aric Linden:	Soft, knock yourself out. Please assign to james
[12:24]	Soft Linden:	Will do
[12:25]	Bridie Linden:	ty Soft!
[12:25]	Aric Linden:	I believe that vwr-1998 should be reclosed
[12:25]	Soft Linden:	Also, the dialog should hint about using quotation marks. Using "Q Linden" with the marks would have found Q in the given example.
[12:25]	Aric Linden:	Soft, good point. that should go to Shiny, I think
[12:26]	Squirrel Wood:	Mmm. Hippos and Waitings ^^
[12:26]	Aric Linden:	what version are you on?
[12:26]	Squirrel Wood:	Humm. Tip of the day for Torley "How to properly search in SL"
[12:26]	Harleen Gretzky:	Should be reclosed VWR-4570 was imported already, so it dupes that
[12:27]	Bridie Linden nods
[12:27]	Squirrel Wood:	Me? latest rc
[12:27]	Aric Linden:	hmmm
[12:27]	Aric Linden:	Let's reclose
[12:28]	Bridie Linden:	Done!
[12:28]	Aric Linden:	thanks svc-1721 should be imported and assigned to sidewinder.
[12:28]	Bridie Linden nods
[12:29]	Aric Linden:	web-511 seems to be a dupe
[12:29]	Harleen Gretzky:	It refers to the web page not inworld
[12:29]	Harleen Gretzky:	Looks like Torley already imprted this morning though
[12:29]	Squirrel Wood:	could be ISP cache
[12:31]	Aric Linden:	Harleen's right, already taken in
[12:32]	Bridie Linden nods
[12:32]	Bridie Linden (hearts) Torley
[12:32]	Aric Linden:	vwr-1241
[12:33]	Soft Linden:	VWR-1241 was pretty bad during Sunday's peak meltdown.
[12:33]	Squirrel Wood:	happens every once in a while it seems
[12:33]	Soft Linden:	The basic problem here is that IMs are delivered to the sim that the presence server indicates as current. If the avatar isn't there, then it bounces to email...
[12:33]	Aric Linden:	soft, is this lag or presence borkage
[12:33]	Aric Linden grins
[12:34]	Soft Linden:	It's aggravated by lag, but happens even when things are healthy if you're doing a lot of region crossings, for example.
[12:34]	Harleen Gretzky:	I have seen this from time to time also, sometimes even goes away while I am online.
[12:34]	Squirrel Wood:	Hmm... mayhaps bounce back to the presence server and have it try a 2nd time before sending to email ?
[12:34]	Aric Linden:	I'm not sure if this is addressable
[12:34]	Soft Linden:	It's addressable... we could let sims forward to wherever they sent the avatar.
[12:34]	Squirrel Wood:	that could work too
[12:34]	Aric Linden nods
[12:34]	Soft Linden:	I've recently added tracking information for where avatars departed to for metric work. So we could reuse that information.
[12:35]	Aric Linden:	let's import
[12:35]	Bridie Linden (hearts) Soft
[12:35]	Aric Linden looks at soft, do you want this assigned to you?
[12:35]	Harleen Gretzky:	Agent Domain would probably solve it also
[12:35]	Soft Linden:	I don't know if I'd have time for it any time soon, but I can add details if you assign it to me.
[12:35]	Aric Linden:	yea!
[12:35]	Aric Linden:	thanks soft
[12:36]	Aric Linden:	vwr-5399 is being worked on today
[12:36]	Bridie Linden:	I already linked up VWR-5399 w/internal issue
[12:36]	Aric Linden:	cool
[12:36]	Aric Linden:	beast is working on it today
[12:36]	Squirrel Wood:	Goodie
[12:37]	Aric Linden:	vwr-5318
[12:37]	Squirrel Wood:	looks useful to me
[12:38]	Lillie Yifu:	laoding...
[12:38]	Soft Linden:	Hrm...
[12:39]	Soft Linden:	I'm apprehensive about taking patches in unless they have really high vote counts or correspond to a high priority issue.
[12:39]	Soft Linden:	The problem is, we tend to take them and they get assigned to someone and stay at the bottom of their stack forever while the patch rots.
[12:39]	Squirrel Wood:	this one has plenty of relations?
[12:39]	Bridie Linden:	Yes, JB has been busy
[12:40]	Aric Linden:	some useful stuff here
[12:41]	Soft Linden:	Hrm. Is there anything we can do to highlight the stuff that has patches attached when importing?
[12:41]	Aric Linden:	assign it directly to a studio
[12:41]	Aric Linden:	?
[12:41]	Soft Linden:	Whoever it's assigned to might lend a little extra priority to those issues because there's a quicker turn around while the patch still applies cleanly on recent code.
[12:42]	Aric Linden nods
[12:42]	Soft Linden:	Or maybe edit the titles to have [patch] at the start
[12:42]	Bridie Linden:	we add patch as a tag...
[12:42]	Aric Linden:	I dunno, I don't think any studio is invested in this part of the code base right now
[12:43]	Aric Linden:	on the other hand, the autosave stuff and the save and load stuff is pretty useful, i think
[12:43]	Lillie Yifu:	That's a wonderful idea Bridie
[12:43]	Soft Linden:	I'm not in the internal triage. What would happen if these issues came in now?
[12:44]	Aric Linden:	they'd get put into the shiny or blacklight queues
[12:44]	Aric Linden:	as useful someday maybe's or trainer issers
[12:44]	Lillie Yifu:	Would that be udner WEB?
[12:44]	Aric Linden:	issues
[12:45]	Aric Linden:	no, it'd be under viewer
[12:45]	Bridie Linden:	What about Babbage?
[12:45]	Soft Linden:	Looks like a valid import. I think the question on how/whether to handle patch issues differently is something I can take up in our open source meeting.
[12:45]	Lillie Yifu:	I mena Bridie's suggestion
[12:45]	Lillie Yifu:	to have JIRA support a patch tag
[12:45]	Aric Linden:	ahh
[12:45]	Bridie Linden:	Oh, we add it internally Lillie
[12:46]	Aric Linden:	soft, originally this triage was intended to facilitate patches getting pulled in
[12:46]	Aric Linden:	but that's sort of drifted over time
[12:46]	Lillie Yifu:	I'm thinkng in Jira... if someone has supplied a patch, instead of just "New Feature" have "patch"
[12:46]	Aric Linden:	I suspect Rob wouldn't mind tho
[12:46]	Soft Linden:	Right. But we tended to pick higher priority ones, not just anything valid. And as we've increased the flow, it's actually hurt the patch acceptance rate.
[12:46]	Aric Linden:	agreed
[12:47]	Aric Linden:	let's import and discuss improving the process
[12:47]	Bridie Linden nods
[12:47]	Soft Linden:	I'm good on that.
[12:47]	Aric Linden:	k
[12:47]	Squirrel Wood:	^^
[12:48]	Aric Linden:	ibid on vwr-5323?
[12:49]	Soft Linden:	Ah, VWR-5323 I think Phoenix already covered.
[12:49]	Soft Linden:	He sent out an email about this this morning.
[12:49]	Aric Linden:	ahh. ok
[12:49]	Aric Linden:	i'm way behind on email today
[12:49]	Soft Linden:	These are the java-style declarations that aren't proper C++, where the class name is re-included in method and variable declarations. Visual Studio and earlier gcc handle them. gcc 4's behavior is correct.
[12:50]	Soft Linden:	Would import and assign to Phoenix to ask if he's already got it covered.
[12:50]	Bridie Linden will do
[12:50]	Aric Linden:	thanks
[12:50]	Aric Linden:	to you both
[12:50]	Aric Linden:	svc-5322
[12:50]	Squirrel Wood:	5322 looks like an easy fix :)
[12:50]	Soft Linden:	Yeah. This should go to parcel media guys.
[12:50]	Soft Linden:	Sam & co
[12:51]	Bridie Linden:	kk
[12:51]	Aric Linden:	yep
[12:51]	Aric Linden:	vwr-5321
[12:51]	Soft Linden:	I can take VWR-5321. That should be a total quickie.
[12:51]	Aric Linden:	yea!
[12:52]	Lillie Yifu:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-541
[12:52]	Aric Linden:	vwr-5387
[12:53]	Aric Linden:	cool, lilie
[12:53]	Lillie Yifu:	Bridie's idea
[12:53]	Soft Linden:	This looks like it's purely a UI change. This could be a good candidate for the dazzle crew?
[12:53]	Soft Linden:	It changes the way the progress bar is presented.
[12:53]	Squirrel Wood:	Yup
[12:54]	Squirrel Wood:	Dazzle dazzle!
[12:54]	Soft Linden:	Looks like they already talked to Benjamin on this anyway
[12:55]	Squirrel Wood:	5386 looks also like its for the dazzle crew
[12:57]	Soft Linden:	Still live?
[12:57]	Squirrel Wood:	Aye
[12:57]	Soft Linden:	Things got really quiet!
[12:57]	Worsethe Dayafter:	t
[12:57]	Aric Linden lost my place
[12:57]	Worsethe Dayafter:	y even
[12:57]	Soft Linden:	Just before all the Solaris stuff.
[12:57]	Aric Linden:	too many open windows
[12:57]	Bridie Linden:	hee
[12:57]	Squirrel Wood:	Need more monitors :p
[12:58]	Bridie Linden already feels like an air traffic controller...
[12:58]	Aric Linden:	so, vwr-5386?
[12:58]	Soft Linden:	Yup!
[12:58]	Bridie Linden:	Another one for Dazzle folks I think
[12:58]	Soft Linden:	And yeah.
[12:59]	Squirrel Wood:	http://www.go-l.com/monitors/athens/features/index.htm
[12:59]	Squirrel Wood:	^^
[12:59]	Squirrel Wood:	200" of TFT
[13:00]	Soft Linden:	We can skip the block of Solaris stuff. I'm taking those when I get some free time. It's not presently a huge priority for LL, just nice to have to exercise our portability.
[13:00]	Aric Linden:	ok
[13:00]	Aric Linden:	thanks soft
[13:00]	Squirrel Wood looks at the time O.o
[13:00]	Aric Linden:	sorry folks. I'm now distracted working a crash bug with coco linden
[13:01]	Soft Linden:	Time's run out anyway :(
[13:01]	Squirrel Wood sets clock back to 12:00 "We still got a full hour..."
[13:01]	Soft Linden:	Ha :)
[13:01]	Aric Linden is too busy these days
[13:01]	Bridie Linden wants lost hour back!
[13:01]	Aric Linden:	i still haven't figured out my body clock
[13:01]	Aric Linden:	thanks for attending folks
[13:01]	Aric Linden:	we appreciate it
[13:01]	Squirrel Wood:	You need to advertise more ^^