Doc Team/2008-06-27

[14:00]  You: Hey folks! Looks like a big crowd here today. Sorry about the mix-up on the time... we were trying to dodge around a moving meeting :-)
[14:00]  Dimitrio Lewis: hi Jeremy!
[14:00]  WidgetHUD v1.1: Dimitrio Lewis has pinged you.
[14:00]  Analog Nihilist: Anyone get hurt?
[14:00]  You: Jon and Kate may show up in about a half hour... but until then, you're stuck with me.
[14:00]  You: Nobody hurt yet!
[14:00]  Analog Nihilist: it's all fun and games 'til someone loses an eye. That's when the real fun begins.
[14:01]  Analog Nihilist: This... is the OpenSim related meeting, yes?
[14:01]  You: With all the stuff in my inventory, it'd be pretty easy to lose an eye.
[14:01]  You: Afraid not, Analog... this is Documentation Office Hours.
[14:01]  You: Everything Knowledge Base and Help-related :-)
[14:01]  Analog Nihilist: Haha. What a vitreous sense of humor.
[14:02]  You: If you're here by accident, you're certainly welcome to stay!
[14:02]  Analog Nihilist: Any idea where th eOpenSim related meeting is/was?
[14:02]  You: Hmm... where did you see it advertised, Analog?
[14:02]  eva Nowicka: ººº
[14:02]  eva Nowicka: hi
[14:03]  You: Hi eva. Welcome to Documentation Office Hours.
[14:03]  Analog Nihilist: I was at the Open Source meeting.
[14:03]  eva Nowicka: ty
[14:03]  You: Hmm... I don't know offhand where the OpenSim meeting would be... do you have any contacts from that meeting who might know?
[14:03]  Kahloon Saphir: r u like important mr linden?
[14:03]  Becky Pippen: Rob does Open Source, and Zero does OpenSim
[14:04]  Jeremy Linden nods.
[14:04]  Kahloon Saphir: oh
[14:04]  Qie Niangao: yeah, i was gonna suggest Zero, too... and the AWG folks
[14:04]  You: Kahloon, anyone who has the last name "Linden" works for Linden Lab, the company that makes Second Life.
[14:04]  You: Whether that makes me important or not is rather subjective, though :-)
[14:05]  Analog Nihilist: And subjective experiences is what life's all about, kids.
[14:05]  You: Heh.
[14:05]  You: So, first things first for this week... does anyone have any pressing concerns about our Knowledge Base this week? Ideas? Comments? Donations?
[14:05]  Kahloon Saphir: i guess
[14:06]  You: I can't actually take L$, by the way. That was a joke :-P
[14:06]  You: Go for it, Kahloon.
[14:06]  Analog Nihilist: Well, I'm new to the knowledge base thing for SL. What's the difference between the wiki and the knowledge base? And what are the pros and cons of each in a nutshell?
[14:06]  Analog Nihilist: if there's a URL in the knowledgebase on that, I can just look at that.
[14:07]  Kahloon Saphir: ummm like my friend says can she have your linden bear??? i know its not like part of ure mmeeting n such
[14:07]  You: The Knowledge Base is a repository of information about how to use Second Life. The only people who can edit it are the Documentation team at Linden Lab... we take suggestions, but the information there is not subject to griefing, and can generally be accepted as true.
[14:08]  You: The wiki is ALSO a repository of information about Second Life, but it tends to be more specialized and technical. Anyone can edit the wiki, so while most of the stuff you see there is true, it can potentially be vandalized. There are ways to police that kind of thing, and we try our best to keep it all civil.
[14:08]  eva Nowicka: but it has a fail: the KB is only in english or german :/
[14:08]  Analog Nihilist: Thank you.
[14:08]  You: Sure, Kahloon. Who is your friend?
[14:08]  Analog Nihilist: Whereas the wiki is often written in Martian.
[14:08]  Becky Pippen: lol Analog
[14:08]  Kahloon Saphir: zai lynch
[14:09]  You: True, eva. We are working on a project to translate the KB into more languages, though.
[14:09]  Disa Paine: if there is a bear.... :)
[14:09]  eva Nowicka: is it possible colaborate with that, Jeremy?
[14:09]  WidgetHUD v1.1: eva Nowicka has pinged you.
[14:09]  Analog Nihilist: Which languages are targeted?
[14:09]  Zai Lynch accepted your inventory offer.
[14:10]  You: I'm afraid I'm not very involved in that project. Jon would know more, and will be able to provide a better answer when he arrives.
[14:10]  Kahloon Saphir: oh thank u mr linden my friend is really happy!
[14:10]  eva Nowicka: ty, Jeremy
[14:10]  WidgetHUD v1.1: eva Nowicka has pinged you.
[14:10]  Qie Niangao: Dumb meta-question, Jeremy: what's the most efficient way to suggest topics for KB treatment? (I only just noticed that there's a Support Ticket category for that--is that the best way? (The subject came up on the Forums.)
[14:10]  WidgetHUD v1.1: Qie Niangao has pinged you.
[14:10]  You: As for collaboration, I do believe we will be working with Resident volunteers, but beyond that, I don't have detailed information.
[14:11]  You: Ah, yes! I think this week's KB article of the week was about that.
[14:11]  You: If you submit a Support ticket of the type "Knowledge Base Suggestion", we'll find it and add it to our internal queue.
[14:11]  Qie Niangao: is that the way you like to get the suggestions?
[14:11]  Disa Paine: i have problems accesing knowledge base and the support portal, the browser hangs, is there documentation, not in the knowledge base, on browsers/settings to help solve the problem?
[14:12]  Saorsa Tachikawa: I thought Id e good citizen and add a sugestion to each catgory
[14:12]  You: The Support Portal is our preferred channel for KB suggsetions, Qie, yes.
[14:12]  Qie Niangao: Thanks, Jeremy.
[14:12]  WidgetHUD v1.1: Qie Niangao has pinged you.
[14:12]  Saorsa Tachikawa: but when I tried an error message came up and I wasn't ale to do so
[14:13]  Disa Paine: that is what happens to me, browser times out
[14:13]  Analog Nihilist: URL?
[14:13]  You: Hm.. I hadn't heard of problems with specific web browsers on our Support system, Disa. I do know that Internet Explorer should work best, but Firefox works well for me as well.
[14:13]  Disa Paine: any, today the one from the blog to the KB article
[14:13]  Saorsa Tachikawa: I'd also like o say with all due respect
[14:13]  Saorsa Tachikawa: and I mean that
[14:13]  Disa Paine: I try IE Firefox Mozzila and an old netscape
[14:14]  Saorsa Tachikawa: because i is clea to me that you folks put heartflet and lots of sweat and ears
[14:14]  Disa Paine: can rarely get support portal or KB to respond properly
[14:14]  Saorsa Tachikawa: tim into llof your work
[14:14]  Saorsa Tachikawa: but nnon the less
[14:14]  Analog Nihilist: You might have network problems.
[14:14]  Analog Nihilist: Lots of ISPs use caching proxies.
[14:14]  Saorsa Tachikawa: the knowledgebase is cumbrsome
[14:15]  Saorsa Tachikawa: and mor ofte3n than o
[14:15]  Disa Paine: sl sopport and KB the only 2 places on the internet i have difficulty with
[14:15]  Saorsa Tachikawa: I an't fine an answr o my question
[14:15]  Analog Nihilist: There's always room for Jello.
[14:15]  You: I'm sorry to hear that, Disa... I don't have any help topics ready to send you for browser trouble right now, though. I'll let our administrator know about your problem!
[14:15]  Analog Nihilist: Hi there.
[14:15]  Analog Nihilist: Get MTR for Windows or whatever OS you're using, and see if there's something weird between you and it.
[14:15]  Saorsa Tachikawa: I really thinkthe primary problem
[14:16]  You: Jon! We've got a big crowd today :-)
[14:16]  Jon Linden: hello everyone; just waiting for the furniture and avatars to rez
[14:16]  Saorsa Tachikawa: is the lack of a good inex
[14:16]  Disa Paine: it is not just me, i have heard a number complain of the browser timing out and getting no response
[14:16]  Cunnie Ling: hello Jon
[14:16]  Saorsa Tachikawa: and cross reference system
[14:16]  Disa Paine: hello
[14:16]  eva Nowicka: hi, Jon
[14:16]  Saorsa Tachikawa: did you get that
[14:16]  Saorsa Tachikawa: index
[14:16]  Jon Linden: wow, a lot of new faces today
[14:17]  You: Saorsa, I do agree with you. There's not a lot we can do about a proper index, but we are slowly implementing much better "related links" in our articles to help people find relevant information.
[14:17]  Saorsa Tachikawa: and cross reference
[14:17]  Qie Niangao: (btw, and apropos the wiki, Torley's http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Limits is just incredibly useful as a reference)
[14:17]  Saorsa Tachikawa: HEY
[14:17]  Saorsa Tachikawa: HEY
[14:17]  Saorsa Tachikawa: HEY
[14:17]  Saorsa Tachikawa: HEY
[14:17]  Analog Nihilist: HEY
[14:17]  Saorsa Tachikawa: index
[14:17]  Analog Nihilist: LISTEN
[14:17]  Analog Nihilist: Man, I didn't like that fairy.
[14:17]  Saorsa Tachikawa: and cross reference
[14:17]  You: Saorsa, I responded to your suggestion. Please don't spam chat.
[14:18]  You: Oh, was that a gesture?
[14:18]  Analog Nihilist: Kinda seemed like it.
[14:18]  Saorsa Tachikawa: wow
[14:19]  Saorsa Tachikawa: now i see wy people esnet lindens so muc
[14:19]  Jon Linden: the Knowledge Base also has a search function that some would argue obviates the need for a more traditional index
[14:19]  You: So, Jon, I believe some folks here were asking about our translation project. I couldn't say much about it, but I think you know more than me, no?
[14:19]  Saorsa Tachikawa: i is not a good one
[14:19]  Jon Linden: what would you guys like to know?
[14:19]  You: Hi Kate!
[14:19]  Saorsa Tachikawa: am aresearchr in l
[14:19]  Saorsa Tachikawa: e
[14:19]  Kate Linden: Hi : )
[14:19]  Dimitrio Lewis: hi Kate :)
[14:19]  Saorsa Tachikawa: rl
[14:20]  Kate Linden: Hey Dimitrio!
[14:20]  eva Nowicka: when we get a KB or other documents like the TOS in other languages??
[14:20]  eva Nowicka: :)
[14:20]  Jon Linden: that's a somewhat complicated question that i can give you some preliminary answers on
[14:20]  Jon Linden: as far as a translated knowledge base:
[14:21]  Jon Linden: we're currently writing a spec for a software solution that will enable community-submitted translation
[14:21]  Jon Linden: similar to the way google or facebook does theirs
[14:21]  Jon Linden: * do theirs
[14:21]  Analog Nihilist: Moderated, I hope.
[14:21]  eva Nowicka: bad translations :)
[14:22]  Jon Linden: the vendors we're talking to have some tools around translator reliability and community moderation
[14:22]  Analog Nihilist: Bad or humorous translations.
[14:22]  Jon Linden: the general gist of it is that bad translations AND/OR translators will be filtered out pretty easily
[14:22]  Jon Linden: at least, that's the beautiful dream
[14:22]  You: We should be careful not to confuse "community translation" with "machine transation", though :-)
[14:23]  Jon Linden: community translation sometimes works to refine initial machine translation; at least, that's the way it was explained to me
[14:23]  Jon Linden: we have a localization manager who's gathering steam here at the Lab
[14:23]  Analog Nihilist: Having a proofreader for each language would be best.
[14:23]  You: MSDN uses that method, yes.
[14:23]  Disa Paine: also multi lingual residents will soon highlight problems with another persons translations
[14:23]  Analog Nihilist: And having a little link for reporting errors/comments on said page someplace, if there isn't one already.
[14:23]  Jon Linden: disa, analog: the community translation model takes both of these scenarios into account
[14:23]  eva Nowicka: but it's not easy with languages like the spanish: every country has his version
[14:23]  Disa Paine: :)
[14:24]  Jon Linden: in theory, translators wouldn't need to report errors so much as simply submit their own version
[14:24]  Jon Linden: to address the second part of eva's question: the TOS
[14:24]  Jon Linden: there's a subset of documents in the KB and on the website that we can't submit for community translation without exposing ourselves to significant legal risk
[14:24]  Jon Linden: those documents are things like the TOS, community standards, etc
[14:25]  Jon Linden: those will have to be translated by localization professionals
[14:25]  eva Nowicka: the community standards are translanted in the wiki
[14:25]  Jon Linden: the wiki is understood to be Resident-submitted content that's not necessarily the word of Linden Lab
[14:25]  eva Nowicka: yes, i know
[14:26]  You: I think what eva is saying is that "it's already done".
[14:26]  eva Nowicka: yes, sorry :(
[14:26]  Analog Nihilist: Will there be an official LSL section in the KB?
[14:26]  eva Nowicka: about the TOS
[14:26]  eva Nowicka: thounsands of residents don't understan english
[14:27]  eva Nowicka: and they haven't readed the TOS
[14:27]  Jon Linden: analog, i'm not sure -- maybe eventually
[14:27]  eva Nowicka: this is a big problem
[14:27]  You: Legally, they checked a box that said they read and understand the TOS when they signed into Second Life.
[14:27]  eva Nowicka: you know the true... they check it without read them
[14:28]  eva Nowicka: and i'm sure that a lot of english-speaking residents haven't readed them :)
[14:28]  Arawn Spitteler: What's the ability to understand english, got to do with checking that box?
[14:28]  You: I know, but it's like voiding a warranty... you shouldn't do it, but you do it anyway. If you get caught, you have no excuse.
[14:28]  eva Nowicka: cool
[14:29]  Saorsa Tachikawa: truthfully
[14:29]  eva Nowicka: then the better solution is ban all non-speaking residents :D
[14:29]  Analog Nihilist: Please making box checking to memory health.
[14:30]  Saorsa Tachikawa: we live in a legally binding society
[14:30]  eva Nowicka: a last question: if i translate the TOS or other documents, and post them to a private wiki with an advice about they're not legal translations... is it correct?
[14:30]  Shaun Altman: I have only read some parts of the TOS
[14:31]  Saorsa Tachikawa: and if we all adhered to all of the fine print w would be frozen plars of salt
[14:31]  Qie Niangao: Shaun: it's a real page-turner
[14:31]  Arawn Spitteler thinks it's more to do with Estoppel: If you checked that box, Linden Labs hasn't surrendered any rights, that it didn't surrender in the ToS. It's more a formality of LL not surrendering rights, than claiming any
[14:31]  Saorsa Tachikawa: *pillars
[14:31]  Shaun Altman: Qie: o ya
[14:31]  Jon Linden: eva, if you were to do something like that, you'd have to make it pretty clear that it's your own translation and not the official word of Linden Lab
[14:31]  Analog Nihilist: I believe 'pillar of salt' is an ancient Phoenician idiom for a person who has had a stroke.
[14:31]  Analog Nihilist: Just so you know.
[14:32]  Kate Linden: I have some more reading material for you! We compiled a list on the wiki of all of our Knowledge Base article of the week blog postings : )) https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/KB_Article_of_the_Week
[14:32]  You: I always thought it was from the biblical story about Sodom and Gomorrah.
[14:32]  Arawn Spitteler recalls showing some fine print, to Mrs. Lot
[14:32]  Qie Niangao was thinking sodomy, but then... never mind
[14:32]  Saorsa Tachikawa: we would all have strokes lol
[14:32]  eva Nowicka: and is it possible to know when we have a translated TOS?
[14:32]  Saorsa Tachikawa: yes it is
[14:32]  Jon Linden: eva, i'm not sure when that'll happen
[14:32]  Jon Linden: we have a localization manager putting things into place right now
[14:33]  Analog Nihilist: What are some of the current large topics in the Knowledge Base?
[14:33]  Jon Linden: "hopefully sooner rather than later" is the best answer i can give
[14:33]  eva Nowicka: i see
[14:33]  Saorsa Tachikawa: good Q analog
[14:33]  Kate Linden: Analog by large do you mean article size or most frequented?
[14:33]  Arawn Spitteler wonders how many languages have words equivalent to "Notwighstanding."
[14:33]  Jon Linden: analog, that is a good question
[14:33]  Analog Nihilist: Both.
[14:34]  Jon Linden: the "information for landowners" folder contains 116 articles
[14:34]  Jon Linden: there are 47 articles in the "FAQs and Videos > Videos" folder
[14:34]  Saorsa Tachikawa: then I'd like to suggest that you run a pilot test
[14:34]  Saorsa Tachikawa: on that topic
[14:34]  Jon Linden: on what topic?
[14:35]  Saorsa Tachikawa: and indexs it and cross reference it
[14:35]  You: The most-viewed article is http://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=4374
[14:35]  Jon Linden: that might be because it's on the Support Portal
[14:35]  You: The distant second is: http://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=5099
[14:36]  You: And it starts to level out at: http://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=4217
[14:36]  Saorsa Tachikawa: and what is that Jeremy?
[14:36]  WidgetHUD v1.1: Saorsa Tachikawa has pinged you.
[14:36]  You: Those are links to KB articles. The first is "Where do I begin?"
[14:36]  Saorsa Tachikawa: OK
[14:36]  You: The second is "Ticket types for Basic and Guest accounts"
[14:36]  Kate Linden: There are 199 articles in the "Support" folder.
[14:36]  You: The third is "How do I add someone to my contacts list?"
[14:36]  Saorsa Tachikawa: getting back to first place
[14:36]  Saorsa Tachikawa: Jon
[14:36]  Jon Linden: yes?
[14:36]  Saorsa Tachikawa: what was it...land use
[14:37]  Saorsa Tachikawa: land owners
[14:37]  Saorsa Tachikawa: land something
[14:37]  Jon Linden: "information for landowners"
[14:37]  Saorsa Tachikawa: yes
[14:37]  Jon Linden: https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&folderID=232
[14:38]  Saorsa Tachikawa: my suggestion is that you run a pilot study and do a simple index
[14:38]  Jon Linden: i have two questions for you, then, saorsa:
[14:38]  Saorsa Tachikawa: and simple cross reference
[14:38]  Saorsa Tachikawa: yes
[14:38]  Jon Linden: 1. where would such an index be located?
[14:38]  Jon Linden: 2. what would the advantage of having an index be when the KB already has a search function?
[14:38]  Saorsa Tachikawa: it is different than the KB
[14:39]  Qie Niangao: (I will say that the KB search function seems less brain-damaged than the wiki's. for the wiki, one *always* does better with a straight google search of site:wiki.secondlife.com)
[14:39]  Jon Linden: i should also point out that jeremy addressed your concern about cross-referencing upchat: we try whenever possible to point out related articles in the body of an article
[14:39]  WidgetHUD v1.1: Jon Linden has pinged you.
[14:39]  Saorsa Tachikawa: the KB is wonderful for certain purposes
[14:39]  You: Qie, I think that's true of all non-Googled wikis.
[14:40]  Jon Linden: qie, this is true -- wiki search technology is often kind of ... questionable
[14:40]  Analog Nihilist: Indeed.
[14:40]  Saorsa Tachikawa: but te index and cross referencing was invented
[14:40]  Jon Linden: saorsa, i have to admit I don't quite understand your "it is different than the KB" objection
[14:40]  Saorsa Tachikawa: a long time agp
[14:40]  Analog Nihilist: Searching for the Open Source meeting didn't work most of the time for me.
[14:40]  Analog Nihilist: On the wiki, that is.
[14:40]  Jon Linden: the position i'm taking is that the search function for the KB replaces (and improves upon) whatever index we could possibly build
[14:40]  You: Hm. Let's try this approach: Saorsa, can you point us at an online example of what you're talking about, for a similar amount of information?
[14:41]  Saorsa Tachikawa: i dgreewthor poson an elhtou beg dnsive
[14:42]  You: I'm sorry, that didn't come out quite translatable.
[14:42]  Saorsa Tachikawa: i disagree with your position and feel that you are being defensive
[14:42]  eva Nowicka: :)
[14:42]  Jon Linden: if i understood you correctly, saorsa, that's your prerogative (of course), but have you ever actually built an index for a document?
[14:42]  You: Saorsa, if you can show us and example, we might better understand what you're suggesting.
[14:43]  You: er, an* example
[14:43]  Saorsa Tachikawa: I'm sorry but I'm not going to play the game of examples
[14:43]  Jon Linden: it's kind of vital to your point, though
[14:43]  Saorsa Tachikawa: I've given you my suggestion
[14:43]  Jon Linden: it's been noted
[14:43]  Analog Nihilist: I see a sort of 'index' on the left side.
[14:43]  Saorsa Tachikawa: thank you
[14:43]  Analog Nihilist: Topics that open to subtopics.
[14:43]  Analog Nihilist: Seems logical to me.
[14:43]  Saorsa Tachikawa: do some participatory reserach
[14:43]  Saorsa Tachikawa: ie
[14:43]  Jon Linden: analog, that's more analogous to a table of contents than a proper index
[14:44]  Saorsa Tachikawa: ask residents
[14:44]  Jon Linden: but its organization was determined by a participatory research project involving Residents
[14:44]  Analog Nihilist: A table of contents, technically speaking, is an index.
[14:44]  Jon Linden: analog ... not really
[14:44]  You: Yes, we brought in a cross-section of Residents, and asked them to participate in a "card sorting exercise", which determined our current KB organization.
[14:44]  eva Nowicka: what residents?
[14:45]  Saorsa Tachikawa: the KB has become too cumbersome for it's current system
[14:45]  You: eva, I'm sorry but we can't name names.
[14:45]  Jon Linden: i honestly can't tell you their names off the top of my head (not that i would in any case)
[14:45]  Saorsa Tachikawa: it has too much knowledge, if you will
[14:45]  eva Nowicka: i don't want to know names.. but it's a curious option...
[14:45]  Jon Linden: saorsa, this is actually kind of why an index would be progressively unworkable
[14:45]  eva Nowicka: there's severl types of residents
[14:46]  Jon Linden: as the size of a document increases, the work involved in indexing it goes up proportionally
[14:46]  You: Saorsa, you may be correct. Do you know of a better option? Not a defensive question, but we genuinely want to find way to improve.
[14:46]  Jon Linden: for those of you who haven't built an index for a document, the process is somewhat similar to tagging blog entries or Flickr photos
[14:46]  Time Minder: You have been online for 2 hours.
[14:47]  Dimitrio Lewis: I haven't been paying attention to this discussion unfortunately, but I wanted to pass along a tip that I only discovered after much frustration... by default a wiki will only search one page type, and there are like twenty page types, so you have to specify that in the search preferences, and can then save it as your default search preferences. :)
[14:47]  Saorsa Tachikawa: no I don
[14:47]  Saorsa Tachikawa: 't
[14:47]  Jon Linden: except that instead of tagging blocks of text or a bunch of JPEGs, you're trying to apply a consistent tagging system to a document at the word, sentence, section, and chapter level
[14:47]  Jon Linden: it's an onerous task that typically gets started when a document is in its near-finished state
[14:48]  Disa Paine accepted your inventory offer.
[14:48]  Saorsa Tachikawa: it is an onerous task
[14:48]  Jon Linden: the KB search function, on the other hand, literally searches the full text of every article in the KB for the keywords the user enters
[14:48]  Saorsa Tachikawa: but can't it be conputerized
[14:48]  Jon Linden: saorsa: no
[14:48]  Saorsa Tachikawa: hmmmmm
[14:49]  Jon Linden: the task of indexing can be done with the use of a computer program, but a human has to do the indexing in order for it to be usable
[14:49]  Saorsa Tachikawa: huh
[14:49]  You: Even in professional printed publications, the writer must edit the computer-generated index. Otherwise it indexes words like "and" and other fun things.
[14:49]  Jon Linden: the strength of an index is also dependent on the person doing the indexing
[14:50]  Saorsa Tachikawa: yes that i know
[14:50]  Jon Linden: one person might tag a particular chapter with a certain set of terms
[14:50]  Jon Linden: another person might use an entirely different set of terms
[14:50]  Saorsa Tachikawa: but i thought you guys would be beyond that
[14:50]  Saorsa Tachikawa: just as in translation
[14:50]  Saorsa Tachikawa: community translation
[14:51]  Jon Linden: machine translation still needs to be edited by humans
[14:51]  Saorsa Tachikawa: so we are back to the same topic
[14:51]  Saorsa Tachikawa: lol
[14:51]  Jon Linden: the worth of a community-generated index is also something i'd still find questionable in the face of full-text searching
[14:51]  Saorsa Tachikawa: intgeresting
[14:51]  Saorsa Tachikawa: not t6o mention rypos
[14:51]  Jon Linden: as i was saying about the differences between potential indexers:
[14:52]  Jon Linden: if one person indexes a chapter with the term "flying", let's say
[14:52]  Analog Nihilist: Jon, I see that there's a voting/rating system. Tell me a little about that?
[14:52]  Jon Linden: and a user comes to the index and looks under "transport," they won't see the information
[14:53]  Jon Linden: hang on, i got that example reversed
[14:53]  Jon Linden: analog, i'll get to your question in a second, unless saorsa, you can see what i mean?
[14:53]  Saorsa Tachikawa: i got it
[14:54]  Jon Linden: analog, the rating system for KB articles came with the software
[14:55]  Jon Linden: we'd like for it to be of more use to people, but we're still trying to figure out ways to improve the signal/noise ratio
[14:55]  Jon Linden: lots of times, a reader might rank an article as unsatisfactory -- not because the article doesn't contain the information they're looking for, but because it doesn't solve their very specific problem
[14:55]  Analog Nihilist: Require resident logins?
[14:55]  You: I use it sometimes when I'm choosing a KB article of the week. I assume that high ratings mean people found the article useful. Low ratings mean it needs improvement before we advertise it.
[14:56]  Jon Linden: in order to rate an article, analog, you need to be logged in anyway
[14:56]  Jon Linden: does anybody else have a question, in the last four minutes of this office hour?
[14:56]  eva Nowicka: yes
[14:56]  eva Nowicka: a last about the TOS :)
[14:57]  Jon Linden: i'd actually be curious to know what brought all you new folks here, but i can wait until after eva's had her question
[14:57]  Jon Linden: ^__^
[14:57]  eva Nowicka: i've said about post a translated version in a private wiki... and in the SL wiki?
[14:57]  Jon Linden: again, a translation of the TOS in either place would be understood to be a user's translation of the TOS and not the official word of Linden Lab
[14:57]  Analog Nihilist: I think the blog entry is the culprit.
[14:57]  eva Nowicka: (Lexie said me to come here to ask you those questions)
[14:58]  Analog Nihilist: That, and people's uncontrollable desire for jello. :9
[14:58]  eva Nowicka: thanks, Jon, Jeremy :)
[14:58]  WidgetHUD v1.1: eva Nowicka has pinged you.
[14:58]  Jon Linden: so in the case of any legal or account-based action (banning, etc), reference would be made to the official TOS and not a translation
[14:58]  Jon Linden: until such time as we can get professional translation done
[14:58]  Jon Linden: which will happen!
[14:58]  Jon Linden: but i'm sorry, i can't tell you exactly when
[14:58]  Jon Linden: because i don't know myself
[14:59]  eva Nowicka nods :)
[14:59]  Jon Linden: one minute left!
[14:59]  Dimitrio Lewis: I came here to take a picture of Jeremy for my collection. :)
[14:59]  WidgetHUD v1.1: Dimitrio Lewis has pinged you.
[14:59]  You: Gasp!
[14:59]  Jon Linden chuckles
[14:59]  You: !
[15:00]  Kate Linden: lol smile Jeremy
[15:00]  WidgetHUD v1.1: Kate Linden has pinged you.
[15:00]  Tegg Bode: :)
[15:00]  eva Nowicka: mmmm maybe a bear too :D
[15:00]  You: Ok, who all wants a bear?
[15:00]  eva Nowicka: thanks, Jon ;)
[15:00]  Jon Linden: my bear makes more sense now that i'm wearing the jellotar again
[15:00]  eva Nowicka: me, Jeremy, please
[15:00]  WidgetHUD v1.1: eva Nowicka has pinged you.
[15:00]  Tegg Bode: Yeah a bear sound cool, Jon got one too? :)
[15:00]  eva Nowicka: ty, kate, Jeremy
[15:00]  WidgetHUD v1.1: eva Nowicka has pinged you.
[15:01]  eva Nowicka accepted your inventory offer.
[15:01]  Kate Linden: Thanks for asking : )
[15:01]  Tegg Bode accepted your inventory offer.
[15:01]  Jon Linden: jeremy's bear is Bear 2.0
[15:01]  Qie Niangao strokes his tiny panda, content without other, rival bears
[15:01]  Tegg Bode: Cool 2.0 version:)
[15:01]  Jon Linden: mine's ... not
[15:01]  You: He pulled double-duty today, holding that sign while I wasn't here.
[15:01]  Analog Nihilist: I heard it was mostly a bugfix version.
[15:02]  You: Well, we can do a side-by-side comparison.
[15:02]  Dimitrio Lewis: ooh, please could I have a jon bear and a jeremy 2.0, and extra fries?
[15:02]  WidgetHUD v1.1: Dimitrio Lewis has pinged you.
[15:02]  Kate Linden: Is the added squeak a new feature in bear 2.0?
[15:02]  Tegg Bode: LOl wasn't it the windlight/havak4/mono version?
[15:02]  You: Nope! Original Jeremy bear had it too.
[15:02]  WidgetHUD v1.1: Jeremy Linden has pinged you.
[15:02]  Dimitrio Lewis: ty :)
[15:02]  Dimitrio Lewis accepted your inventory offer.
[15:02]  Tegg Bode: Oh do you have a bear too kate? :)
[15:03]  Kate Linden: sure Tegg
[15:03]  Saorsa Tachikawa: what are these funny clouds hanging above us?
[15:03]  Tegg Bode: cool thx :)
[15:03]  Jon Linden: folks, feel free to stop by next week -- i've got to run!
[15:04]  Analog Nihilist: Awww... I saw hoping to ask what direction the KB was looking to take in the future.
[15:04]  Jon Linden: come back in a week!
[15:04]  eva Nowicka: byes, Jon :)
[15:04]  Becky Pippen: Bye Jon!
[15:04]  Jon Linden: we'll be here
[15:04]  You: Actually Jon...
[15:04]  Jon Linden: oh wait, that's 4th of july
[15:04]  You: I think next week is July 4
[15:04]  Jon Linden: we'll either reschedule, or you'll just see us in two weeks
[15:04]  You: U.S. Independence Day.
[15:04]  Analog Nihilist: Yay! It's 'get drunk and blow things up after setting thme on fire' day!
[15:04]  Jon Linden: i can neither confirm nor deny
[15:05]  Jon Linden: have a good weekend, everyone
[15:05]  Jon Linden: ^__^
[15:05]  Analog Nihilist: Bye! And thank you.