Pathfinding in Second Life/2012-05-10

Transcript for Thursday May 10, 2012

[16:02]	Lorca Linden	alright well let's get started
[16:03]	Lorca Linden	first thing I want to ask : has anyone in this group had the chance to play around with the height defaults for characters?
[16:03]	any1 Gynoid	WB Nathan! HH Advanced Scripting Teacher... u rock and stuff!
[16:03]	any1 Gynoid	WB Brota!
[16:03]	Dahlia Trimble	<.< >.>
[16:03]	Nathan Zetkin	smiles
[16:03]	Lorca Linden	anyone, anyone, Buler?
[16:03]	Sandry Logan	yes a bit. but i have had nothing to show because the "animations" were broken
[16:03]	any1 Gynoid	Hiya Sandry! Nice to meet u!
[16:05]	Shimmering Rift	/me crackles with electricity.
[16:05]	Second Life	Entering god mode, level 200
[16:06]	Second Life	Teleport completed from secondlife://Aditi/secondlife/LI%20Devbox%202/133/100/23
[16:07]	Second Life	Teleport completed from secondlife://Aditi/secondlife/PathDev4/97/184/41
[16:07]	Motor Loon	good timing
[16:07]	M√¶stro Linden	Welcome to DRTSIM-100D 12.05.10.256426
[16:07]	Lorca Linden	i'm back ;)
[16:07]	M√¶stro Linden	which hopefully has the crash fix
[16:07]	Motor Loon	guess we'll see ,-)
[16:07]	Lorca Linden	so we really need feedback on height defaults asap for that feedback to be actionable
[16:08]	Sandry Logan	is there an update to the pathfinding servers on agni too?
[16:08]	Falcon Linden	That was fun!
[16:08]	Falcon Linden	Sandry: tomorrow
[16:08]	Ima Mechanique	sheesh it was hard work getting here
[16:08]	Sandry Logan	ok
[16:08]	Falcon Linden	ima: the region went down to restart on the new version right as we got started :)
[16:08]	Lorca Linden	it was a planned demonstration
[16:08]	Ima Mechanique	I crashed or was logged 3-4 times
[16:08]	Dahlia Trimble	me too
[16:09]	Sandry Logan	i have been hoping that the fixes for llSetRot et al were coming because it seemed pointless to say i had anything to show you guys wrt heights when it all looked so terrible without animation
[16:09]	Lorca Linden	yeah, some hiccups with the code migration I imagine
[16:09]	Falcon Linden	I think it's fixed?
[16:09]	Falcon Linden	Maestro?
[16:09]	Sandry Logan	it is here, for quite a few days, but i don't have it on agni yet
[16:09]	Falcon Linden	ah, then tomorrow
[16:09]	any1 Gynoid	I'm satisfied it's fixed on Aditi..... not agni... ohhh good!
[16:10]	Falcon Linden	barring any unforeseen problems with this version
[16:10]	Sandry Logan	/me smiles cool
[16:10]	M√¶stro Linden	Well, the really depends on whether the crasher was really fixed with this new version
[16:10]	M√¶stro Linden	*that really
[16:10]	Falcon Linden	it was.
[16:10]	Lorca Linden	so if you all can play around with the height values in the next week, that would be awesome
[16:10]	Falcon Linden	maybe.
[16:11]	Lorca Linden	falcon, do you have anyting in particular on the agenda to discuss, or shall we open it up to questions?
[16:11]	Falcon Linden	Not particularly. Just a reminder about those llWanderWithin changes
[16:11]	Rex Cronon	thank u:)
[16:11]	Lorca Linden	yup, oh and also any suggestions as to the ABCD value defalt names?
[16:11]	Falcon Linden	oh, and it turns out I found a way to muck with the CHARACTER_TYPEs without requiring you to recompile your scripts
[16:11]	Falcon Linden	so yay
[16:12]	And all I got was this lousy DN	timing on that could have been better:P
[16:12]	Falcon Linden	and llGetClosestNavPoint now takes CHARACTER_TYPE and CLOSEST_NAV_POINT_RADIUS arguments
[16:12]	Lorca Linden	we are thinking Animal, Vegtable, Mineral, and things that do not start with the letter m
[16:12]	Falcon Linden	correction, that's GET_NAV_POINT_RADIUS
[16:13]	any1 Gynoid	man, woman, humanoid NPCs.... would be nice to be within your scope
[16:13]	Falcon Linden	men and women usually walk on different surfaces?
[16:13]	M√¶stro Linden	well
[16:13]	Lorca Linden	yeah, in seriousness we have considered humaniod, creature, mechanical, and other
[16:13]	M√¶stro Linden	you may set the walkability of the men's room, and vice-versa
[16:13]	Lorca Linden	or biped, quadraped, vehicle, and other
[16:13]	Motor Loon	Men walk on livingroom surface, Women talk on kitchensurfaces
[16:13]	Motor Loon	¬∞Õú¬∞
[16:13]	Falcon Linden	maestro: true. But rare. :P
[16:14]	Sandry Logan	i rather liked the one Maestro suggested with biped, pet, wild animal, vehicle
[16:14]	M√¶stro Linden	Yeah, I think it would be useful to segregate by function
[16:14]	Falcon Linden	That has the problem of not providing an "other"
[16:14]	M√¶stro Linden	hm
[16:14]	Falcon Linden	it is most useful to segregate by function
[16:14]	Dahlia Trimble	whats difference between wild animal and pet?
[16:14]	Falcon Linden	I'd consider blending all animals
[16:14]	Lorca Linden	those are good defaults, but I like having an "other" bucket if possible
[16:14]	Falcon Linden	Dahlia: probably that wild animals wouldn't walk on paths/inside
[16:14]	M√¶stro Linden	like maybe you wouldn't let wild animals in your house, but would allow your cat inside
[16:14]	Falcon Linden	thing is, you probably shouldn't rely on walkability to do that. You need a fence. :)
[16:15]	M√¶stro Linden	that's true
[16:15]	Dahlia Trimble	probably but sometimes they get in the house :(
[16:15]	Theresa Tennyson	My cat sneaks out anyway.
[16:15]	Falcon Linden	Yeah, so I'd vote for
[16:15]	Sandry Logan	as someone involved primarily with animals i liked the idea, but yeah, the biped, quad, vehicle, other probably gives a better scope
[16:15]	Falcon Linden	Humanoid, Non-human animal, vehicle (mechnical?), other
[16:15]	M√¶stro Linden	sure
[16:16]	Sandry Logan	something like that
[16:16]	M√¶stro Linden	falcon, so would the constants keep the same name?
[16:16]	Falcon Linden	yes
[16:16]	Rex Cronon	i don't think it matters how u call the types, what matters what type of locomotion they use
[16:16]	Dahlia Trimble	I was kinda thinking small thingie, largest avatar capsule, vehicle, and maybe a tiny thingie
[16:16]	MaV (matu)	elemental :P
[16:16]	Falcon Linden	we might provide additional constants for convenience
[16:16]	M√¶stro Linden	what are we deciding, exactly? just the suggestions in the wiki page?
[16:16]	Falcon Linden	for the UI
[16:16]	M√¶stro Linden	Okay
[16:16]	Falcon Linden	and maybe new convenience constants for lsl
[16:16]	Dahlia Trimble	is it just height, or is there a radius also?
[16:16]	Motor Loon	seems clever enough
[16:17]	Falcon Linden	dahlia: this is separate from the height issue
[16:17]	Lorca Linden	yeah we want the suggestions in the UI maestro, not enough people will ever read our wiki
[16:17]	claudia222 Jewell	for birds for example
[16:17]	Lorca Linden	<---- is a realist on such things
[16:17]	Falcon Linden	but characters have both a height and a radius. If they're horizontal, their height is really their length
[16:17]	Rex Cronon	u can something like: crawlers, walkers, jumpers, flyers?
[16:17]	Falcon Linden	claudia222: birds don't work very well. The only way to make them work would involve invisible platforms which couldn't connect to the ground anyway
[16:17]	Rex Cronon	u can have *
[16:17]	M√¶stro Linden	Alright, that crasher is fixed! This build might be a good candidate for Agni after all!
[16:18]	And all I got was this lousy DN	lol
[16:18]	any1 Gynoid	wwoot
[16:18]	MaV (matu)	you tried to crash us all? :P
[16:18]	Falcon Linden	rex: anything can jump. llExecCharacterCmd(CHARACTER_CMD_JUMP, [float height])...or something like that
[16:18]	Falcon Linden	maestro: but do the wandering changes work? :P
[16:18]	Falcon Linden	let's find out. Come with me
[16:19]	M√¶stro Linden	haven't tried yet
[16:21]	draconis.neurocam	where did we go?
[16:21]	draconis.neurocam	or
[16:23]	Lorca Linden	hmm
[16:23]	Falcon Linden	(where you actually do care about updating them each frame)
[16:24]	TheBlack Box	i wonder what amounts of characters per sim will we a reasonable maximum ?
[16:24]	Falcon Linden	so we still strongly recommend you change your objects to walkable/static obstacle where possible
[16:24]	TheBlack Box	what should we expect ?
[16:24]	Falcon Linden	We estimate that in a well crafted region, each character should take about 50us to simulate
[16:24]	M√¶stro Linden	Hm Falcon, perhaps the viewer should flag that condition?
[16:24]	Nathan Zetkin	does HTTP_BODY_MAXLENGTH work on pathfinding sims?
[16:24]	Falcon Linden	Maestro: no. Too much work too often
[16:24]	any1 Gynoid	<-- done some stress tests... 5 X Spare Time will avoid any noticable lag... http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-785902
[16:25]	M√¶stro Linden	Nathan : probably, if it works on the main channel? Give it a try :)
[16:25]	Falcon Linden	any1: until you have some agents log in
[16:25]	Nathan Zetkin	I tried it a few days ago and it didn't
[16:25]	Rex Cronon	why the move?
[16:25]	Nathan Zetkin	this was on agni
[16:25]	any1 Gynoid	i think we need some user LSL... that manages number of NPCs... based on available spare time..
[16:26]	Falcon Linden	We actually have code for that that we plan to release
[16:26]	any1 Gynoid	plus NPC crashes
[16:26]	any1 Gynoid	very cool!
[16:26]	Falcon Linden	sample code that manages the number of NPCs
[16:26]	Falcon Linden	is llGetCharacterTime documented, maestro?
[16:26]	M√¶stro Linden	it's not a function,
[16:26]	M√¶stro Linden	it's a flag for llGetObjectDetails
[16:26]	MaV (matu)	oh that
[16:26]	M√¶stro Linden	OBJECT_CHARACTER_TIME, I think? units in seconds
[16:26]	MaV (matu)	i was about to ask about it :P
[16:26]	Falcon Linden	Maestro: yeah, that
[16:27]	Lorca Linden	actually we made a lot of use of that feature in the wilderness, we build a variable rezzers system that modulates how many environmental creatures are released into each region based on server performacne and individual script time
[16:27]	M√¶stro Linden	that may not be in the wiki, since I don't know how to flag it for "this only works in pathfinding"
[16:27]	Lorca Linden	it's worked really well and allowed us to significantly increase the # of pathfinding creatures in the wilderness under most circumstances
[16:27]	any1 Gynoid	excellent!... love hearing this!
[16:27]	MaV (matu)	any other not listed? :P
[16:27]	Falcon Linden	One way that you can detect that your NPC has gotten into a bad state is to watch for times exceeding 7.5e-5 (that's 75us)
[16:28]	Lorca Linden	we will release the tmemplates for our master rezzers in the wilderness when pathfinding goes live, the character level script performance monitorinig was really useful
[16:28]	Falcon Linden	we've found that most characters take about 50us per frame under normal conditions
[16:28]	TheBlack Box	thanks !
[16:28]	Falcon Linden	also, has anyone experimented with pathfinding enabled doors?
[16:28]	Falcon Linden	I have an example script somewhere from a resident who was kind enough to build an example house with autorezzing door
[16:28]	MaV (matu)	if you set them as static they brake :P
[16:28]	Falcon Linden	That will be made available at some point too
[16:28]	MaV (matu)	break*
[16:29]	Falcon Linden	The correct solution is for the walkable house to rez out its door
[16:29]	Falcon Linden	and for the door to use llSetKeyframedMotion
[16:29]	M√¶stro Linden	you can still use llSetRot() if you don't care about looks, of course
[16:29]	Falcon Linden	that was done for the doors in the wilderness, also
[16:29]	TheBlack Box	i really only experiment with a thing i have been worlking on that is similar to Polyworld (simulated ecolution stuff) .... with pathfinding that is a lot of fun
[16:29]	Falcon Linden	Maestro: no, you can't
[16:29]	Falcon Linden	Maestro: if you do, the navmesh won't update immediately. :P
[16:29]	M√¶stro Linden	hmph, okay
[16:30]	Falcon Linden	llSetPos and llSetRot incur significant penalties, so they are throttled in terms of their effect on the navmesh
[16:30]	Falcon Linden	also, an object that changes its shape is HUGELY throttled. We will process only one such change per second for the entire region
[16:30]	Falcon Linden	(the policy is fair in that every object will get its turn...eventually)
[16:31]	Falcon Linden	and I mean that we throttle the affect on the navmesh, not the actual change. So the shape will change and the navmesh will be wrong for a while.
[16:31]	Falcon Linden	Translation: don't make objects that change their physical shape :)
[16:31]	Rex Cronon	by changing shape do u mean increasing/decreasing its size?
[16:31]	any1 Gynoid	what about NPCs that change shape? they are not part of navmesh
[16:31]	M√¶stro Linden	Rex: either that or something like changing the pathcut setting
[16:31]	Falcon Linden	Rex: changing size or primitive params
[16:31]	M√¶stro Linden	or changing between box/sphere or something
[16:32]	Falcon Linden	any1: They can change size freely with llUpdateCharacter
[16:32]	Falcon Linden	If you're changing the size up, we will reject the change if it causes the character to penetrate a wall or floor, etc.
[16:33]	And all I got was this lousy DN	what about changing a sphere into a box and back?
[16:33]	M√¶stro Linden	Falcon, wouldn't that cause most changes that make the character taller to be blocked?
[16:33]	Falcon Linden	So make sure you have enough room, or let us handle that automatically, but that's expected behavior (that in a tight space a character can't go from crawling to standing, e.g.)
[16:33]	Falcon Linden	maestro: I was wondering about that.
[16:33]	M√¶stro Linden	or would you automatically move the character upwards according to the new height?
[16:33]	Falcon Linden	probably. You would need to llSetPos() first...
[16:33]	Falcon Linden	but we don't
[16:33]	Falcon Linden	we don't move it upward. We probably should
[16:33]	Falcon Linden	lag.
[16:34]	Falcon Linden	"We probably should, but we don't"
[16:34]	Rex Cronon	or switching between prim, sculptie and mesh?
[16:34]	any1 Gynoid	<-- thinking mostly about "ambulating" characters.. walking motions.. mostly deal with llSetRot changes
[16:34]	Dahlia Trimble	how about something like that?
[16:34]	Falcon Linden	rex: correct, though if it's a shape type none character, it's okay
[16:34]	Falcon Linden	any1: none of those will cause a problem so long as they're on child prims
[16:34]	any1 Gynoid	k great! thx
[16:34]	Falcon Linden	a character is always and only just a capsule. Its size and orientation can change, but that's it.
[16:35]	Sandry Logan	speaking of shapoe none.... i read in one of the other meeting transcripts about a change in the way that LI will be caculated and capping the streaming cost at the number of primitives in a linkset. is there any news of when this might happen?
[16:35]	M√¶stro Linden	you can also rescale the root prim of a character without any physical effect
[16:35]	Falcon Linden	Sandry: that change is already on agni in pathfinding regions except for a bug affecting sculpts that will be fixed with tomorrow's deploy
[16:35]	M√¶stro Linden	It's done in this version, Sandy
[16:35]	Sandry Logan	ok cool. thank you :c)
[16:36]	Falcon Linden	Maestro: right. Changing the root prim's scale does not automatically update the character's height/radius
[16:36]	M√¶stro Linden	server cost is now num_prims0.5 + num_scripts0.25
[16:36]	Nathan Zetkin	yay
[16:36]	Falcon Linden	and sculpts can have a streaming cost of up to 2
[16:36]	M√¶stro Linden	streaming cost is capped at 1.0 for legacy prims and 2.0 for sculpts
[16:36]	Falcon Linden	physics cost is unchanged as it continues to accurately reflect simulator load :)
[16:37]	Sandry Logan	oh, so my LI may still increase
[16:37]	Falcon Linden	no
[16:37]	M√¶stro Linden	well, it can
[16:37]	Falcon Linden	oh, you mean on account of physics?
[16:37]	Falcon Linden	Yes
[16:37]	Falcon Linden	Make your physics shape better and it will go down :)
[16:37]	M√¶stro Linden	if your linkset is mostly sculpts, you can have a higher LI due to streaming cost
[16:38]	M√¶stro Linden	like 30 sculpts in a linkset will have a LI of up to 60, if the sculpts are all big
[16:38]	M√¶stro Linden	due to streaming cost
[16:38]	Falcon Linden	in no case will the LI be higher than it used to be for mesh accounting based builds. It's just that moving to the new accounting may cause the cost to go up if the build contains sculpts or bad physics shapes
[16:39]	Lorca Linden	any other questions on that topic
[16:39]	Lorca Linden	?
[16:39]	Falcon Linden	or in general?
[16:39]	any1 Gynoid	silly question... are you talking real money here? or just server / lag load?
[16:39]	Dahlia Trimble	dynamic linksets?
[16:39]	Falcon Linden	just Land Impact
[16:40]	Falcon Linden	dahlia: as in physical?
[16:40]	Dahlia Trimble	such as those which change pos/rot
[16:40]	Dahlia Trimble	like the example I rezzed there
[16:40]	TheBlack Box	those LI changes are for all legacy prims ? or just when a pathfinding character is inside ?
[16:40]	Falcon Linden	LI doesn't account for changes to pos/rot on nonphysical objects. On physical objects, there is a scale factor applied to the physics weight based on size
[16:40]	Falcon Linden	The changes apply to:
[16:41]	Falcon Linden	1) Any linkset containing one or more meshes
[16:41]	Dahlia Trimble	I meant if it affects pathfinding
[16:41]	Dahlia Trimble	throttling and all that
[16:41]	Falcon Linden	2) Any linkset containing one or more prims with a physics shape type other than "PRIM"
[16:41]	M√¶stro Linden	By rights, an object like that should have a very high server cost since it slows the sim down significantly, but it doesn't
[16:41]	Falcon Linden	Dahlia: yes. But it's not throttled as heavily as shape changes
[16:41]	Falcon Linden	it still negatively impacts performance and can cause the entire region's pathfinding updates to be throttled
[16:42]	Dahlia Trimble	ah I see
[16:42]	MaV (matu)	do you think PATHBUG-32 will happen before PF getting released?
[16:42]	Jira Helper	[#PATHBUG-32] Add server support and UI elements to enable/disable Pathfinding https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/PATHBUG-32
[16:42]	Falcon Linden	yeah, llSetPos and llSetRot and friends are bad mojo in general
[16:42]	TheBlack Box	k thanks
[16:42]	Dahlia Trimble	but the scripts are not throttled?
[16:42]	Falcon Linden	matu: not as UI elements, but via the sim console
[16:42]	MaV (matu)	ah nice
[16:42]	Lorca Linden	mav yes
[16:42]	M√¶stro Linden	is it moving at full speed now, Dahlia?
[16:42]	Lorca Linden	for region owners
[16:42]	Falcon Linden	dahlia: no, scripts are not throttled except that if your changes cause you to have less spare time, there's less time for all scripts
[16:42]	Motor Loon	I think it'd be reasonable for EM's to disallow PF on a region
[16:42]	Dahlia Trimble	its trying lol
[16:42]	Dahlia Trimble	it should go faster
[16:42]	Falcon Linden	motor: yes, any EM will be able to enable/disable pathfinding via the console
[16:43]	Motor Loon	ok
[16:43]	Nathan Zetkin	will there ever be a pathfinding time in the statistics bar?
[16:43]	Falcon Linden	not specifically, no
[16:43]	Falcon Linden	it is lumped in with physics time
[16:44]	M√¶stro Linden	It might be nice to have a category in Time Details for that part of physics time
[16:44]	Falcon Linden	if there's enough interest, we could at some point add an lsl call to fetch it
[16:44]	Falcon Linden	maestro: I'm not sure if that's an extensible message.
[16:44]	Falcon Linden	worth investigating, though
[16:44]	any1 Gynoid	<-- burning question... does SL pathfinding use Dijkstra's algorthim... or A* or D* or something more smexy and exotic?
[16:44]	Falcon Linden	A*
[16:44]	MaV (matu)	it wouldnt hurt to have it :P
[16:45]	Falcon Linden	A* for path searches, a proprietary local steering solution, dynamic navmesh modification, and a bunch of random code I added.
[16:45]	Falcon Linden	:P
[16:45]	TheBlack Box	i think it will become important to have as many tools as possible for pathfinding performance checks .... i guess simulated eco-systems will become a trend .... a merge of breedable SL pets and Polyworld-like simulated ecosystems
[16:45]	And all I got was this lousy DN	aka, undocumented features... :D
[16:45]	Falcon Linden	box: that...would be...awesome
[16:46]	Lorca Linden	as a side note, according to havok, this is the first time anyone has tried to impliment pathfinding in a large scale, 3d world with dynamic content creation
[16:46]	TheBlack Box	also reminds me of that early-days SL video with the creatures :)
[16:46]	Rex Cronon	just don't make rabbits. they will reproduce like crazy:)
[16:46]	Theresa Tennyson	Will pathfinding allow you to make rideable vehicles that follow roads?
[16:46]	Motor Loon	was just thinking of those old videos
[16:46]	Falcon Linden	Box: Apparently Philip noticed that, too, or so I'm told :)
[16:46]	And all I got was this lousy DN	/me makes tribbels
[16:46]	Falcon Linden	theresa: with care, yes
[16:46]	TheBlack Box	hehe great :)
[16:47]	Falcon Linden	but that's a fairly advanced thing to implement
[16:47]	Falcon Linden	but it should be possible
[16:47]	Dahlia Trimble	ya Im curious about self navigating vehicles also, how will they know how to stay on a road and on the proper side
[16:47]	Lorca Linden	ABCD values can be used for that purpose
[16:47]	And all I got was this lousy DN	thatll depends on what crountry the road is in
[16:47]	Rex Cronon	u put fences around the road?
[16:47]	Motor Loon	¬∞Õú¬∞
[16:47]	Falcon Linden	Lorca: yeah, but that can't easily handle staying in your lane
[16:47]	TheBlack Box	Rex: funny thing is ... birth-rates are really a dangerorous thing to but into the genes for evolutionary creatures :) that gets wild fast
[16:48]	Falcon Linden	Probably an exclusion volume in the center divider would do it
[16:48]	Falcon Linden	a jersey divider would definitely do it
[16:48]	any1 Gynoid	if someone's going the wrong way round.. heaven help us all lol
[16:48]	Falcon Linden	intersections would be tricky
[16:48]	Theresa Tennyson	Right now, on my motorcycle I'm doing good if I stay on the road at all.
[16:48]	Theresa Tennyson	And I don't do good that often,
[16:48]	And all I got was this lousy DN	and upright
[16:49]	Falcon Linden	I say, make roads shared single lane :)
[16:49]	Falcon Linden	just...wide
[16:49]	Rex Cronon	u don't need pathfinding for vehicles to follow a predifined path
[16:49]	Falcon Linden	Rex is right, of course.
[16:49]	M√¶stro Linden	Falcon, do you have that 'dukes of hazzard' type video link handy?
[16:49]	Falcon Linden	llSetKeyframedMotion is better
[16:49]	M√¶stro Linden	that had a really good example of pathfinding vehicles
[16:49]	M√¶stro Linden	(or Lorca)
[16:49]	Lorca Linden	Well, you could have them stay in the right lane so long as you used two character types, and set half of the road (via a volume) to 0% or am I missing something?
[16:49]	Falcon Linden	yeah, one sec
[16:49]	Falcon Linden	Lorca: which lane is "right" depends on your orientation
[16:49]	Dahlia Trimble	well something has to tell the script where the road is
[16:50]	M√¶stro Linden	Hm,
[16:50]	Lorca Linden	yeah check out this video for a neat vehicle chase with pathfinding :
[16:50]	Lorca Linden	http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2012/04/impressive-sl-pathfinding-test-with-cars-is-impressive.html
[16:50]	any1 Gynoid	umm btw... at least my vision for pathfinding is to end vacant city streets... and forests... I don't want to go to Paris in SL.. and find it post apocalyptic deserted
[16:50]	M√¶stro Linden	you could have the eastern lane in a north-south road by set to one type walkability
[16:50]	Falcon Linden	any1: that would rock. We really need to add animation for that
[16:50]	M√¶stro Linden	and have it 10% walkable for type A (northbound) and 100% walkable for type B (southbound)
[16:50]	M√¶stro Linden	then switch things up for the southbound traffic
[16:51]	Falcon Linden	I would like to, at some point, figure out a way to let you do llGetPath()
[16:51]	any1 Gynoid	<-- what my next class will do.... we can animate... no problem
[16:51]	M√¶stro Linden	then cars could switch their character type when they take a turn
[16:51]	Falcon Linden	maybe we could support that if it only queried the uncut mesh.
[16:51]	Lorca Linden	I agree any1, and hopefully if we get a full fledged animation system in it could really bring many areas to life
[16:51]	Lorca Linden	Falcon and I are big proponents of that idea ;)
[16:51]	Falcon Linden	So it would give you back a path which would be correct as long as nothing on the path was set to moveable object
[16:52]	Falcon Linden	so it would work great for roads
[16:52]	Falcon Linden	and the path wouldn't need to be updated because it explicitly ignores moveable obstacles
[16:53]	Falcon Linden	it would be particularly handy for setting up trains/vehicles where you could do llGetPath() and then use those as inputs to llSetKeyframedMotion
[16:53]	Rex Cronon	u would have a motorcycle passing thorugh a bus:0
[16:53]	Falcon Linden	true.
[16:53]	Theresa Tennyson	You've seen me on Route 8 then?
[16:53]	Dahlia Trimble	does llGetPath() exist yet?
[16:53]	Falcon Linden	but as long as you control the content in the region, it's no problem
[16:53]	Rex Cronon	:)
[16:53]	Falcon Linden	Dahlia: I just came up with the idea now :)
[16:54]	Dahlia Trimble	ah ok :)
[16:54]	Falcon Linden	at least, the key part of the idea: explicitly ignored movable obstacles
[16:54]	Dahlia Trimble	or get a new path when a collision occurs
[16:54]	Rex Cronon	i guess this is more of a brainstorming session:)
[16:54]	Ima Mechanique	Falcon, how current are the wiki pages for the LSL functions/constants?
[16:55]	Falcon Linden	moderately :P
[16:55]	Falcon Linden	Maestro might know better than I
[16:56]	M√¶stro Linden	fairly
[16:56]	M√¶stro Linden	which page?
[16:56]	TheBlack Box	oh btw ... is CHARACTER_MAX_TURN_SPEED fixed already ? earlier today i still had to use the integer value instead
[16:56]	M√¶stro Linden	llWanderWithin() is totally up to date now
[16:56]	Lorca Linden	5 minute warning
[16:56]	Ima Mechanique	well all of them really. I'm updating my master xml file with a few things wondered if it's worth going through them all again
[16:56]	M√¶stro Linden	Hm, Falcon renamed CHARACTER_MAX_TURN_SPEED, i think? We should update the wiki for the new name
[16:57]	TheBlack Box	ah thanks
[16:57]	M√¶stro Linden	(what is the new name?)
[16:57]	Theresa Tennyson	I see that when a region is set for pathfinding everything defaults to "movable." Is there a reason for that?
[16:57]	And all I got was this lousy DN	thats the default stting
[16:57]	MaV (matu)	to not break stuff suppose :P
[16:57]	M√¶stro Linden	It's to avoid breaking content
[16:57]	Ima Mechanique	Ithat's CHARACTER_DESIRED_TURN_SPEED now yes?
[16:57]	M√¶stro Linden	ah yes, that sounds right Ima
[16:58]	Ima Mechanique	I added that to my file last week
[16:58]	Falcon Linden	yes
[16:58]	Object	Hello, Avatar!
[16:58]	Lorca Linden	just a reminder : please play around with characterheights and comment on the JIRA by next week's meeting
[16:58]	Object	CHARACTER_DESIRED_TURN_SPEED = 12
[16:59]	Lorca Linden	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/PATHBUG-96 and https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/PATHBUG-95
[16:59]	Jira Helper	[#PATHBUG-96] Suggested Character Types https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/PATHBUG-95
[16:59]	Jira Helper	[#PATHBUG-95] Suggested Character Height https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/PATHBUG-95
[16:59]	TheBlack Box	oh .. llPersue still stops too early for some reason i dont understand ... i tried to work around it with small offets+fuzzfactor .. but doesnt help
[16:59]	Lorca Linden	60 seconds!
[17:00]	TheBlack Box	my creatures stop pursueing before they get into bite-range ... and then they starve :(
[17:00]	M√¶stro Linden	It might be trying to avoid the target
[17:00]	Motor Loon	poor things
[17:00]	M√¶stro Linden	try disabling that with CHARACTER_AVOIDANCE_MODE
[17:00]	Falcon Linden	Yep.
[17:00]	TheBlack Box	ok
[17:00]	Falcon Linden	also, there's PURSUIT_TOLERANCE
[17:01]	Falcon Linden	or maybe PURSUIT_GOAL_TOLERANCE
[17:01]	M√¶stro Linden	.... yeah I don't think that's in the wiki yet
[17:01]	Falcon Linden	something involving pursuit and tolerance. It defaults to a number based on the size of your object, but you might want to set it lower
[17:01]	TheBlack Box	those params need some documentation i think
[17:01]	Lorca Linden	alright, that's a wrap for today. Same time same next week on pathtest1. Also, if you or anyone you know is interested in being part of the beta, tell them to email pathfinding-beta@lindenlab.com asap. It is likely we will just have 1 more batch of resident regions added.
[17:01]	Dahlia Trimble	ty Lindens :)
[17:01]	TheBlack Box	thanks :)
[17:01]	M√¶stro Linden	CHARACTER_AVOIDANCE_MODE is pretty well covered in llCreateCharacter's page
[17:01]	Rex Cronon	at least list they name(hopefully their values too)
[17:01]	MaV (matu)	thanks
[17:01]	Falcon Linden	Very quickly, here are some of the newish params. I don't know if they're all on the wiki
[17:01]	Sandry Logan	thank you
[17:01]	Rex Cronon	tc everybody
[17:02]	Brota Kornfeld	tc
[17:02]	M√¶stro Linden	thanks for coming
[17:02]	And all I got was this lousy DN	have a great friday, everyone
[17:02]	M√¶stro Linden	okay update the 'CHARACTER_DESIRED_TURN_SPEED' name in the wiki
[17:02]	TheBlack Box	yes Maestro ... PURSUIT_GOAL_TOLERANCE / PURSUIT_TOLERANCE is new to me though
[17:02]	Falcon Linden	CHARACTER_CMD_SMOOTH_STOP, PURSUIT_GOAL_TOLERANCE, PATROL_PAUSE_AT_WAYPOINTS, WANDER_PAUSE_AT_WAYPOINTS, GET_NAV_POINT_RADIUS
[17:02]	Nathan Zetkin	have a good night all
[17:02]	Rex Cronon	have a nice everybody:)
[17:02]	Falcon Linden	night all
[17:02]	any1 Gynoid	great meeting! ty LL... and TY for FIXING PATHBUGS 109 and 110 .. U TOTALLY ROCK!!!!
[17:02]	claudia222 Jewell	bye all thanks
[17:02]	TheBlack Box	nighty
[17:02]	Nal	Thx
[17:03]	TheBlack Box	yes ... pathfinding has developed awesomely btw !
[17:03]	M√¶stro Linden	thanks guys
[17:03]	Lorca Linden	thanks!
[17:03]	Lorca Linden	and let us know if you have anything particularly cool, or bring some show and tell for the next user group

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Pathfinding in Second Life/2012-05-10

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