User:Enkidu Linden/Office Hours/2010-06-10

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List of Attendees

Transcript

[10:55] Morgaine Dinova: Wooohooo!!!!
[10:55] Enkidu Linden: hey there
[10:55] Morgaine Dinova: Hiya Enki --- glad you're still with us :P
[10:55] Enkidu Linden: thanks!
[10:56] Enkidu Linden: i am also glad!
[10:56] Enkidu Linden: well, maybe not glad
[10:56] Enkidu Linden: half-relieved?
[10:56] Enkidu Linden: anyway.. i see i left my shared media attempt sitting here
[10:57] Enkidu Linden: how are you all?
[10:57] Morgaine Dinova: Well, dunno what to think. But as long as there are tech Lindens still doing OHs, then at least there's a focus for AW Groupies :-)
[10:58] Morgaine Dinova: Awww Enki, and I was so enjoying the plywood ...
[10:58] Morgaine Dinova: Hi lone :-)
[10:58] Enkidu Linden: hey there's more where that came from
[10:58] lonetorus Habilis: heyhey
[10:58] Morgaine Dinova: Haha
[10:59] lonetorus Habilis: so sl is to become the new farmville? XD
[10:59] Enkidu Linden: i hope not!
[11:00] lonetorus Habilis: well, thats the public fear currently
[11:00] lonetorus Habilis: we are in a information vacuum
[11:00] Morgaine Dinova: Do you know anything about WebGL, Enki? Seeing as browser-based UI was part of the announcement
[11:00] Enkidu Linden: i know a guy at zynga and i'm pretty sure i'd not like linden lab becoming zynga
[11:00] Attica Bekkers: it better not i do fville with my 14 yo untilhe grows out of it
[11:01] Enkidu Linden: i know a little bit about webgl but i'm not a gl dev so.....
[11:01] lonetorus Habilis: so sl on a web page will be an additional way to access sl, hopefully
[11:01] Enkidu Linden: i've always thought that would be a good thing
[11:02] lonetorus Habilis: most likely with the sl in a browser thing IBM made?
[11:02] Attica Bekkers: willit be like an interface to chat from work with folks inworld
[11:02] Morgaine Dinova: I think the opposite. All the hassle and flakiness and restrictions and bloat of web browsers, with none of the benefits of dedicated apps.
[11:03] Enkidu Linden: i have no idea what it will look like, support, do, require, etc
[11:03] lonetorus Habilis: well, running a dumbed down v2 inside a browser window should not be so bad
[11:03] lonetorus Habilis: for the facebook crwd that is
[11:04] lonetorus Habilis: enkidu, of course not, but we can speculate
[11:04] lonetorus Habilis: :)
[11:04] Enkidu Linden: then let's speculate!
[11:05] Enkidu Linden: as long as you know i'm only speculating as well, it's party time
[11:05] Attica Bekkers: parenting has made me shameless about things like fb:P Only problem is none of my friends will join
[11:05] Morgaine Dinova: lone: agreed, but that's the only place for a browser-based interface I think. It would have to be so dumbed down that you couldn't do much beyond look and chat and listen to music.
[11:05] lonetorus Habilis: morg, and buy stuff for your av ;)
[11:05] lonetorus Habilis: seems fine enough for the facebook crowd
[11:05] Morgaine Dinova: True
[11:06] lonetorus Habilis: some of them will want to do more of course
[11:06] lonetorus Habilis: and they could then switch to stand alone client
[11:06] Enkidu Linden: i'm reminded of google docs
[11:06] Enkidu Linden: vs ms office
[11:06] Morgaine Dinova: Well that's a possibility. But it's not a future that's easy to square with mass firing of techs.
[11:06] Robin CorneliusRobin Cornelius curses the NDA
[11:07] Attica Bekkers: thefb crowd is very intolerant of some things, games lose masses of people if they put a step wrong, watch mafia wars die
[11:07] lonetorus Habilis: morg, well, they have also hired many new ppl
[11:07] Morgaine Dinova: It will take massive development effort to get something like that written. M's not gonna program it himself in Excel.
[11:07] lonetorus Habilis: well, use the ibm code?
[11:07] lonetorus Habilis: or the 3Di cleient
[11:08] lonetorus Habilis: client
[11:08] lonetorus Habilis: http://3di-rei.org/
[11:09] lonetorus Habilis: but if the goal is to remove the "install some browser plugin" then there will be a need for massive rewrite of a client
[11:09] lonetorus Habilis: something i belive will fail badly
[11:09] Morgaine Dinova: Wanting an FB-like future squarely well with LL abandoning interop, sadly.
[11:09] Morgaine Dinova: squares*
[11:09] lonetorus Habilis: if they want to get anywhere near the functionality of current client
[11:10] lonetorus Habilis: yeah, but the altrustic large vw interop goals have been exchanged for short term money grabs
[11:11] Morgaine Dinova: There's no free lunch in the browser. If they rewrite the client in WebGL, there will STILL be a massive download of client code (Javascript), and it will happen on every single login.
[11:11] lonetorus Habilis: morg, indeed, also means massive amounts of new code i would think
[11:11] Enkidu Linden: i think it would be more interesting if we didn't design a web client, but designed everything such a client might need to operte
[11:12] Enkidu Linden: and i wonder how far away from that we are today
[11:12] Robin Cornelius: not that far at all
[11:12] Morgaine Dinova: If you mean an interop protocol ... about a million miles away, Enki
[11:12] Attica Bekkers: but sl could get zynga like addiction and following really easy
[11:12] Attica Bekkers: byintroducing medals
[11:13] Robin Cornelius: reward points for bug fixing ;-p
[11:13] Enkidu Linden: hey dragon!
[11:13] Robin Cornelius: your next medal is for resolving 250 jira reports
[11:13] Attica Bekkers: ts your 500th teleport hers the medal of x and graphic goes on up your avatars medal site whichis optionally able to be made public
[11:13] Attica Bekkers: the old approval system without the chance for a negative review..
[11:14] Attica Bekkers: it doesnt need muchtech to get fb-ey
[11:14] lonetorus Habilis: lol
[11:14] Enkidu Linden: would implementing such a rewards system require linden help?
[11:14] Attica Bekkers: robinyes
[11:14] Attica Bekkers: thered defntielyhave tobe ajira ward
[11:14] Attica Bekkers: one for for your first jira
[11:14] Attica Bekkers: one for your fiftieth
[11:14] lonetorus Habilis: dont forget medals per X amount of lindens spent
[11:14] lonetorus Habilis: XD
[11:15] Attica Bekkers: somepoor linden would have to ok those, to save it from spam
[11:15] Attica Bekkers: ohyes
[11:15] Attica Bekkers: those ar ein every fb game
[11:15] Attica Bekkers: plus experience points
[11:15] Attica Bekkers: make your own clothes.. 200 xp
[11:15] Morgaine Dinova: Robin, what did you mean by "not that far at all" ?
[11:16] Attica Bekkers: so long as itwas opt in and hideable people do love brownie points
[11:16] Robin Cornelius: i was not refering to interop, but rather the peices coming together to make a web type client
[11:16] Attica Bekkers: i want an ward for 6000th texture upload
[11:16] Enkidu Linden: what sort of pieces?
[11:16] Robin Cornelius: i could spell it out but i would be sued
[11:16] lonetorus Habilis: or medals for number of sims visited
[11:17] Morgaine Dinova: Robin: yeah, but how are they coming together? There is no Javascript/WebGL client in the works AFAWK, and turning the current renderer into a plugin is apparently off the cards because they publicly said "no download".
[11:18] Robin Cornelius: yep thats correct
[11:18] Robin Cornelius: i have to be as vague as a linden about this, sorry
[11:19] Morgaine Dinova: Well your choice to take NDA. But it sucks, and you know it.
[11:19] Enkidu Linden: aw
[11:19] lonetorus Habilis: well, "no download" could have a different meaning to m than it has to you morg
[11:19] Morgaine Dinova: lone: you mean server-side rendering?
[11:19] Robin Cornelius: Morgain, sorry i've got bills to pay ;-(
[11:20] lonetorus Habilis: perhaps a browser like plugin download does not count as "a real download" :)
[11:20] lonetorus Habilis: enkidu, wanna move this oh over to blues chair, yoz has a oh starting in a few min
[11:21] Morgaine Dinova: lone: installing a Firefox extension is certainly a download. In SL's case, it would be a huge one.
[11:21] Attica Bekkers: no download like runescape? which does dload (but runs at slow modem speed)
[11:21] Enkidu Linden: i love yoz
[11:22] Morgaine Dinova: I don't know Yoz. Does he do tech stuff?
[11:22] Enkidu Linden: yoz also works in my group
[11:22] lonetorus Habilis: morg, yes, but its less technical to complete than a seperate dl and installation, a browser plugin is mostly a "click next" experience
[11:22] lonetorus Habilis: "Yoz Linden: Web engineering: social apps, wiki, JIRA, identity, new tech"
[11:23] Morgaine Dinova: Aha
[11:23] tsurunari Toki: ahaha
[11:23] Enkidu Linden: yoz does a lot of third party integration
[11:24] lonetorus Habilis: third party?
[11:24] lonetorus Habilis: can you give examples?
[11:24] Enkidu Linden: i mean third party applications, like the wiki
[11:25] lonetorus Habilis: ahh
[11:25] lonetorus Habilis: or the blog
[11:25] Enkidu Linden: yeah
[11:26] Enkidu Linden: so, i think i'll stay here and continue, but feel free to join yoz's OH if you like. give him any inappropriate gesture for me!
[11:27] lonetorus Habilis: im going to station a alt over at his oh ;)
[11:27] lonetorus Habilis: perhaps a lsl based chat relay? ;)
[11:27] Enkidu Linden: by the way, sorry about last week. i couldn't seem to log in until about 11:25am and no one was around
[11:27] Enkidu Linden: haha
[11:28] Enkidu Linden: i had a chance to mess with babbage's oauth lsl last week
[11:28] Enkidu Linden: it was pretty neat posting to twitter in world
[11:28] Qiyuan Anton: /kiss
[11:29] Robin Cornelius: its times like these you need an orbiter
[11:29] hong Yeu: Get lost!
[11:29] tsurunari Toki: hola
[11:30] Qiyuan Anton: /
[11:30] tsurunari Toki: JeBonjour
[11:31] Attica Bekkers: hola tsurunari would you like to sit down
[11:31] lonetorus Habilis: enkidu, i actually made a in world thing for this
[11:31] lonetorus Habilis: just rez it on the ground here
[11:31] tsurunari Toki: Sure
[11:31] Enkidu Linden: no kidding?
[11:32] Enkidu Linden: mind if i look under the hood?
[11:32] Attica Bekkers: just click on the empty couch and sit here
[11:32] Qiyuan Anton: c ya guys gtg
[11:33] Attica Bekkers: be well Quiyuan
[11:33] Enkidu Linden: does it also receive status updates, lone?
[11:33] Enkidu Linden: hey ghengis
[11:33] Morgaine Dinova: Hiya Ghengis :-)
[11:33] Ghengis Linden: Hi Morgaine
[11:34] Morgaine DinovaMorgaine Dinova imagines an influx of Facebook-type newbies griefing every tech OH
[11:34] Enkidu Linden: that was exciting
[11:35] Attica Bekkers: dont give awards for social tech? only have special awards granted from above?
[11:36] Enkidu Linden: oh man! i forgot
[11:36] Enkidu Linden: apparently jack's been talking about search in his OH
[11:36] Enkidu Linden: which are, sadly, at the same time as mine
[11:37] Enkidu Linden: i'm not sure where, though
[11:37] Attica Bekkers: but you are a cephalapod
[11:38] ATechwolf Foxclaw: Hi all . Finally got my alt going.
[11:39] Enkidu Linden: Linden Estate Services (213,107,49)
[11:39] Enkidu Linden: jack's OH
[11:39] Enkidu Linden: not that i think anyone should go there instead of here!
[11:40] ATechwolf Foxclaw: Jack getting fried there.
[11:40] Enkidu Linden: poor guy
[11:41] Enkidu Linden: nobody likes fried jellyfish, so i'm safe
[11:41] Attica Bekkers: I was thinking that
[11:42] Enkidu Linden: so, robin, as someone familiar with snowglobe, do you think a web client could be written in webgl by someone other than linden lab/?
[11:43] Enkidu Linden: i'm still curious about the difference between you and morgaine's assessments
[11:44] Robin Cornelius: i was not thinking a webgl solution
[11:44] Morgaine Dinova: Enki: the only way the two PoVs can be reconciled is by the huge amount of work it takes having been started long ago.
[11:45] Robin Cornelius: or you relax the assumptions about the implementation
[11:46] Enkidu Linden: seems reasonable since we're still just speculating
[11:46] Morgaine Dinova: Robin is under NDA, so let's not go there. But if it's not WebGL then it's a browser plugin/extension, so you don't avoid the huge download like the press release said.
[11:47] Robin Cornelius: can i quickly ask an unrelated question, Enkidu, you don't know anything about the mime type handing in the viewer do you?
[11:48] Enkidu Linden: i don't but i can ask around for you. what do you want to know?
[11:48] Robin Cornelius: i'm trying to serve a file with a custom mime type, its on my apache, curl says its good, the viewer says mime_type=
[11:48] Robin Cornelius: i want to use it to trigger a custom plugin
[11:49] Robin Cornelius: i once saw the correct type, but never again
[11:49] Enkidu Linden: how are you issuing the request? llhttprequest?
[11:50] Robin Cornelius: no i'm putting it on prim media
[11:50] Robin Cornelius: ty Attica
[11:50] Enkidu Linden: ok, i know who to ask then!
[11:51] Morgaine Dinova: Haha, Attica, tnx :-)
[11:52] Attica Bekkers: ghengis went to sleep
[11:53] Attica Bekkers: hope twasnt him you had to ask
[11:53] Enkidu Linden: robin, is there a wiki on setting up customer plugins?
[11:53] Enkidu Linden: er, custom
[11:54] Ghengis Linden: haha sorry, catching up on some reading
[11:54] Enkidu Linden: (my grammar is slowly becoming predictive text)
[11:54] Attica Bekkers: wb
[11:54] Ghengis Linden: thx
[11:55] Robin Cornelius: there is info on the protocol, which i've hacked around with loads of times, but something is amiss here for some reason
[11:55] Enkidu Linden: what's the url?
[11:56] Attica Bekkers: lsls is very good thing for people who dont program
[11:56] Enkidu Linden: i've piqued some curiosity
[11:56] Robin Cornelius: the url is http://127.0.0.1/test.rfb, apache is set to serve that with a custom mime type of remove/rfb (which it does)
[11:57] Robin Cornelius: er remote/rfb
[11:57] Robin Cornelius: then i have that mime type in mime_types.xml which lists my plugin as the library to handle that
[11:58] Enkidu Linden: callum is wondering what curl -i shows you
[11:59] Enkidu Linden: and i'm wondering what on earth you're up to
[12:00] Enkidu Linden: but we're out of time and i have a meeting starting
[12:00] Robin Cornelius: it gives me the http headers including "Content-Type: remote/rfb

"

[12:00] Robin Cornelius: and then my content
[12:00] Robin Cornelius: i just want to trigger a custom plugin
[12:02] Enkidu Linden: he's not sure but he'd like to think about it more. i think you just handed him a rubik's cube
[12:02] Enkidu Linden: and i've got to run. thank you all for coming!
[12:03] Attica Bekkers: grins thanks
[12:03] Ghengis Linden: by all
[12:03] Attica Bekkers: bye
[12:03] Ghengis Linden: thanks attica for the snapshot, it's not my new profile pic!
[12:03] Enkidu Linden: it's not?
[12:03] Attica Bekkers: tell them the fb gamer stickines is awards/medals if it come sup
[12:04] Attica Bekkers: not tech
[12:04] Enkidu Linden: nothing says 'i love you' like 'i don't love you', ghengis
[12:04] Attica Bekkers: Iwant an ward for spending 5000000 lindens lol
[12:04] Enkidu Linden: thanks again, all. see you next week

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