User:Zero Linden/Office Hours/2007 May 01

Transcript of Zero Linden's office hours:

[13:00]	Khamon Fate:	These are the most interesting office hours. Zero details the infrastructure for us.
[13:00]	Zha Ewry:	Hwllo Zero
[13:01]	Kooky Jetaime:	G'Day Zero
[13:01]	Ian Priestman:	Hi Zero
[13:01]	Sundance Churchill:	Hi Zero :)
[13:01]	Zha Ewry:	*Hello even
[13:01]	Zero Linden:	Hello all
[13:01]	Lex Neva:	I think Zero's were also teh first techie office-hours
[13:01]	Wade Roundfield:	Hi Zero
[13:01]	Zha Ewry:	Hello all you gray, Unrezzed peeps
[13:01]	Lex Neva:	I'm grey when rezzed.
[13:01]	Zero Linden:	Oh boy - looks like a full house today!
[13:01]	Rex Cronon:	hello everybody
[13:02]	Zero Linden bops along in RL to a minilogue concert
[13:02]	Kooky Jetaime:	I could leave if that scares ya, Zero?
[13:02]	Zero Linden:	Not at all, Kooky
[13:02]	Zero Linden:	I wouldn't hear of it! Tea? Crumpts?
[13:02]	Ian Priestman:	mmmm tea....
[13:02]	Zha Ewry:	Coffee? Biscuits?
[13:03]	Lex Neva:	I'd go for a tea, but I just rezzed.
[13:03]	Lex Neva:	Upset stomach and such. ;)
[13:03]	Wade Roundfield:	What is a crumpet anyway?
[13:03]	Sundance Churchill:	Mountain Dew? cheese Doodles?>
[13:03]	Zha Ewry:	Sombody wake Jarod
[13:03]	Rex Cronon:	too bad food is virtual here:)
[13:03]	Ian Priestman:	Enough talk of food - it's reminded me I'm starving! :)
[13:03]	Khamon Fate:	He's away for a mo
[13:04]	Zha Ewry shudders to ask about the internal IRC channel this week
[13:04]	Zha Ewry:	(But will anyway)
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[13:04]	Danceguy Argus:	hi all
[13:04]	Rex Cronon:	hi
[13:05]	Danceguy Argus:	sorry to interupt
[13:05]	Zero Linden:	The tail of last week was hellish internally - especially for about half my group
[13:05]	Rex Cronon:	there was a moment of silence:)
[13:05]	Danceguy Argus:	My I ask a question?
[13:05]	Zero Linden:	But this week - all the code was written by mid-day on monday- it's in testing and expected to deploy tomorrow....
[13:05]	Zero Linden:	though I don't know if we've made the go/no-go decision yet
[13:05]	Zero Linden:	Oh
[13:05]	Zero Linden:	preliminaries
[13:05]	Khamon Fate:	What is this code of which you speak?
[13:06]	Zero Linden:	especially since there are so many new folks here
[13:06]	Zha Ewry:	Speak and be blogged!
[13:06]	Danceguy Argus:	lol
[13:06]	Khamon Fate notes that GIR is a new attendee and quite excited.
[13:06]	Danceguy Argus:	Zero?
[13:06]	Zero Linden:	Hold a sec.....
[13:06]	Zero Linden:	....
[13:06]	Danceguy Argus:	k
[13:06]	Danceguy Argus:	:
[13:06]	Danceguy Argus:	-)
[13:06]	Zero Linden:	So, welcome to my office hours --- they are deeply technical
[13:06]	Kooky Jetaime:	Hopefully he's talkign about fix code...
[13:06]	Ryozu Kojima:	Just starting?
[13:07]	Ryozu Kojima:	Ooh
[13:07]	Zero Linden:	I am a "studio director" within Linden Lab, which means that I lead a bunch of engineers on a larger set of projects
[13:07]	Zero Linden:	for my studio, this is all about messaging infrastructure and systems architecture
[13:08]	Zero Linden:	We discuss topics about the SL architecture here - and usually in some depth
[13:08]	Danceguy Argus:	oh cool
[13:08]	Zero Linden:	I try to keep the topics to about 15 to 20 min. so we can cover several things
[13:08]	Djarum Black Cig: Ahh the nice drag of a fresh lit cig.
[13:08]	Zero Linden:	Otherwise it is pretty open ended......
[13:08]	Zero Linden:	Lastly - I post the whole transcript to the public wiki
[13:08]	Zero Linden:	So, as K. so nicely put it: Speak and be blogged!
[13:08]	Danceguy Argus:	kk
[13:09]	Danceguy Argus:	I have a question?
[13:09]	Zero Linden:	That out of the way-
[13:09]	Khamon Fate:	I think Z said that
[13:09]	Zero Linden:	where to start?
[13:09]	Zero Linden:	Sure, Danceguy
[13:09]	Khamon Fate:	Doh there are two Zs ha ha ha
[13:09]	Zero Linden:	ah yes - Z.'s fine words they were
[13:09]	Danceguy Argus:	When are sculpted prims coming out?
[13:09]	Khamon Fate claps for sculpted prims
[13:10]	Zero Linden:	If we had a date, we'd've told you! Honest - right now we don't have a release for that scheduled
[13:10]	Rex Cronon joins the clapping
[13:10]	Danceguy Argus:	oh ok
[13:10]	Zero Linden:	Indeed - they are waaaaaaaaaay fun
[13:10]	Khamon Fate:	Speaking of schedules, does la Liberation have a date yet?
[13:10]	Lex Neva:	Won't they result in a greater drain on resources, both on the server and client?
[13:10]	Zero Linden:	As you might imagine, engineering is a little focused on fixing the current crop of problems
[13:10]	Zha Ewry:	So.. We've may some progress on the horrible glitches of the release.. but.. the grid is still in agony..
[13:11]	Zha Ewry:	What's the next steps?
[13:11]	Khamon Fate:	More the client Lex as the servers are just sending textures.
[13:11]	Zero Linden:	Sculpted prims? Not seriously - it does require another viewer texture - but those textures are VERY small (no point in larger than 64x64 pixels I believe!)
[13:11]	Khamon Fate:	The prim calcs from the server are just sphere-based.
[13:11]	Zero Linden:	and they have LESS geometry to ship to the viewer
[13:11]	Lex Neva:	but... there's a reason you didn't do sculpt-prims from the outset.
[13:11]	Khamon Fate:	They didn't have Matrix experts in the Lab.
[13:11]	Zero Linden:	Yes - it is all viewer side geometry
[13:13]	Sundance Churchill:	crashed :/
[13:13]	Zero Linden:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Sculpted_Prims
[13:13]	Khamon Fate:	We need the link to the test viewer as well.
[13:13]	Khamon Fate:	ahem
[13:13]	Khamon Fate:	cough
[13:13]	Funcard HUD:	sender num: 3 | num: 1 | | 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000
[13:13]	Kooky Jetaime snickers
[13:14]	Guen Gundersen:	hi
[13:14]	Funcard HUD:	alles wird gut
[13:14]	Funcard Send whispers: Bitte geben Sie ueber die Chat Konsole den Namen ein:
[13:14]	Funcard HUD whispers: Sie koennen Ihr Funcard HUD aus dem Inventory jetzt loeschen.
[13:14]	Zero Linden:	okay - well, back to the current debacle
[13:14]	Ryozu Kojima:	I imagine Sculpted prims will actually relieve a lot of server issues, less prims to accomplish complex visual effects, etc. I digress.
[13:14]	Rex Cronon:	i would like to see the .obj file that generated the bannana object
[13:14]	Khamon Fate:	Kelly fessed up to causing much name disassociation in his hours.
[13:14]	Zero Linden:	the code is now written: correcting all the caching problems with agent-id to name lookup (the source of login and friends list woes)
[13:15]	Zero Linden:	and the functionality that got lost in the new group IM stuff: notable making "left this session" messages less often
[13:15]	Zha Ewry claps furiously at that image
[13:15]	Zero Linden:	Well, there was a bit of a confluence of bugs that collided there
[13:16]	Ian Priestman:	Is there any way we can have a preference to turn off "Left this session" messages completely?
[13:16]	Zero Linden:	Ian - that would be easy to implement viewer side..... please!
[13:16]	Zero Linden:	It turned out that there were many many errors in caching that information -
[13:17]	Zero Linden:	some that have been around for years
[13:17]	Zero Linden:	this change, alas, exacerbated them
[13:17]	Khamon Fate:	It'll be nice when receiving IMs from a group is optional.
[13:17]	Kooky Jetaime:	I enjoyed the old functionality, that way you saw when speakers no longer were paying attention, just not the blank windows that would open just for the left session messages
[13:17]	Zero Linden:	It also points up that fair bits of the code base are written on one style of coding: ask the db, get an answer
[13:17]	Zero Linden:	that just isn't true in a larger system: ask for info x - you may get it, you may not - and even if you do, it might be stale
[13:18]	Khamon Fate:	Shun the Database! Vive la Liberation!
[13:18]	Zero Linden:	Remember - liberation isn't about central databases, it is abut interoperability of different versions of the sw - so they can send messages about
[13:19]	Khamon Fate:	That's gotta help them cache data better though resulting in many fewer DB hits.
[13:19]	Zero Linden:	But this brings me to a topic I've discussed here before
[13:19]	Khamon Fate:	I should say properly cache data.
[13:19]	Zero Linden:	which is about major architectural changes underfoot
[13:19]	Ryozu Kojima:	yaaaay, Architecture
[13:19]	Zero Linden:	can every one see that slide show board over there?
[13:20]	Fanturi Erato:	nope
[13:20]	Wade Roundfield:	um...what board
[13:20]	Ian Priestman:	Yup
[13:20]	Zero Linden:	here
[13:20]	Wade Roundfield:	Oh. Thanks.
[13:20]	Zero Linden needs a pointer....
[13:20]	Fanturi Erato:	I see it but cannot read it
[13:20]	Zero Linden:	well, give it a second
[13:21]	Fanturi Erato:	must be blind
[13:21]	Zero Linden:	hey - no clicking!
[13:21]	Kooky Jetaime passes Zero a big stick
[13:21]	Fanturi Erato:	I did not
[13:21]	Kooky Jetaime:	good to point, or beat clickers with
[13:21]	Zero Linden:	okay
[13:21]	Zero Linden:	this is the image you want to see
[13:21]	Zero Linden:	This is the grid today
[13:21]	Rex Cronon:	sorry i did, i thought only zero can change slides
[13:21]	Switch Case:	these are not the drones you're looking for
[13:21]	Switch Case:	or however that goes ;)
[13:21]	SLinworld3 Planer:	hi there. we are implementing an real postcard service, adapting the email snapshot function. but weg got problems with special charaters like ö,ä. I could not find a right decoder? Is there a limit on sending emails, because there could be an heavy use of the email postcard function?
[13:22]	Zero Linden:	if you can see it, right click on it and choose edit, then close the edit window
[13:22]	Zero Linden:	SL3 - i can speak about character sets in a bit
[13:22]	Zero Linden:	okay - this is the grid today
[13:22]	Zero Linden:	there is a viewer
[13:22]	Khamon Fate:	alt-click with your mouse to zoom
[13:22]	Zero Linden:	and it connects to some server that manages the region you are on
[13:23]	Zero Linden:	the "sim" - which is really a program simulating the region
[13:23]	Djarum Black Cig: Burned to the butt. Flicked
[13:23]	Zero Linden:	when you are logged in, the sim you are in becomes your "proxy" - everything you want to do must be mediated by the simulator
[13:23]	Zero Linden:	you look up someone's profile - the sim gets it for you
[13:23]	Zero Linden:	you do a search - the sim does the search
[13:23]	Zero Linden:	you give someone inventory - the sim does the transfer
[13:24]	Rex Cronon:	is there a list available of all the things that the sim does?
[13:24]	Zero Linden:	if you walk over a sim boundry, the new sim is now responsible for doing those things -- there is a hand off which is more than just your position - it is the whole responsibility for your agent
[13:24]	Zero Linden:	Rex: easy: EVERYTHING!
[13:24]	Danceguy Argus:	I have another question?
[13:24]	Switch Case:	patience
[13:25]	Switch Case:	Zero: is that why IMs to me sometimes go to my email when I teleport?
[13:25]	Zero Linden:	What's worse, is that if you interact with an avatar that isn't on line, the sim you are in must handle *that* agent too!
[13:25]	Zero Linden:	like if you give inventory to a agent that isn't on line, the sim must move the inventory....
[13:25]	Zero Linden:	if the agent is on line, then the sim has to coordinate with the sim where the receiving agent is
[13:26]	Zero Linden:	Switch - yes - what is happening in that case is a perfect example: You are in the middle of being transferred from one sim to another, and
[13:26]	Danceguy Argus:	Does anyone know how to import blender objects inot secondlife?
[13:26]	Zero Linden:	someone else IM's you- their sim must find you and deliver the message - and if you're off-line - their sim dumps it in the IM queue for delivery
[13:27]	Khamon Fate:	And if they are not online, where is the notification of inventory transfer held?
[13:27]	Zero Linden:	what is going on is that it is trying to find you and you don't seem to be at the old or the new place
[13:27]	Khamon Fate:	By the sim you're in waiting for them to log in?
[13:28]	Zero Linden:	While the process is rebust - in the sense that it tries really hard to cope with stale information, it still can easily get fooled
[13:28]	Zero Linden:	what's worse is that each simulator host must be able to access each and every database and storage system -- since
[13:28]	Zero Linden:	each sim could potentially have to be the proxy for any agent
[13:28]	Free Radar HUD v1.0 by Crystal Gadgets (Babeli 128,128,22)
[13:28]	Zero Linden:	Khamon- yes
[13:29]	Switch Case:	...and if something CAN happen, it will happen somewhere on the grid ;)
[13:29]	Zero Linden:	So- this is a constant source of woe: If one database goes down - every sim might be affected.....
[13:29]	Zero Linden:	Switch - yes, we are at a size now where failure of HW is certain.
[13:29]	Switch Case:	Can you talk at some point about the Texas colo and how the link-up is affecting the communication between sims and those backend servers?
[13:29]	Zero Linden:	with several thousand machines up - one or more of them is failing every day
[13:30]	Zero Linden:	Switch - yes
[13:30]	Zero Linden:	that is relevant here too
[13:30]	Wade Roundfield:	You don't sound like someone who believe the SL architecture is really scalable.
[13:30]	Zero Linden:	So - simulators connect to logically neighboring sims
[13:30]	Zero Linden:	you talk to the four touching neighbors all the time
[13:31]	Zero Linden:	we try to make sure that regions in texas mostly talk to regions in texas
[13:31]	Zero Linden:	but all this central db stuff has to come back to SF
[13:31]	Zero Linden:	it is currently a set of VPN tunnels - but
[13:31]	Khamon Fate:	The slide we're looking at now is not scalable Wade.
[13:31]	Zero Linden:	turns out they are a pain and are a bottle neck
[13:31]	Switch Case:	so I guessed
[13:31]	Zero Linden:	so reducing the need for this degree of connectivity would be good
[13:32]	Wade Roundfield:	Khamon: I think/hope he is getting to the new architecture...
[13:32]	Khamon Fate:	"will" be good
[13:32]	Zero Linden:	Wade - me? Oh no, I don't believe what youare looking at IS scalable.... at least not to the sizes I want to see it scale....
[13:32]	Wade Roundfield:	OK.
[13:32]	Zero Linden:	This is the solution
[13:32]	Zero Linden:	This *is* scalable
[13:32]	Zero Linden:	The key is separation of responsibility
[13:33]	Zero Linden:	Introduce a set of servers, the Agent Domain, that is soley responible for the avatars - on-line or off
[13:33]	Zero Linden:	when on line - startup a process on a host and make it reponsible for your on-line presence
[13:33]	Switch Case:	Wow...
[13:34]	Switch Case:	that domain handles inventory, too?
[13:34]	Zero Linden:	when you move from sim to sim, only your position is moving.....
[13:34]	Zero Linden:	yes
[13:34]	Khamon Fate shouts: WooHoo!1
[13:34]	Zero Linden:	and furthermore, we can multiple inventory clusters (like we do now), but they can remain independent
[13:34]	Switch Case:	Cool! Do it! ;)
[13:35]	Ryozu Kojima:	Does this imply smoother region transitions?
[13:35]	Zero Linden:	Now, logging in becomes a coordinated dance (of capabilities) between three entities - your viewer, the agent domain, and the region domain where you want to be
[13:35]	Zero Linden:	Ryozu - partially -
[13:35]	Zero Linden:	we still need to move the objects you are wearing from one region to the next (after all, their simulation will now be
[13:35]	Zero Linden:	interacting with a different set of objects)
[13:36]	Ryozu Kojima:	Right now, region crossing ranges from impossible and timed out on busy mainland sims, to nearly instant in empty class 5s
[13:36]	Zero Linden:	but we don't need to push responibility around as much
[13:36]	Kooky Jetaime:	Zero, where are the multitude of machines going to come from? Additionally, is this going to cause a new game of cat and mouse with the more consecutive users online, the more systems will be required in the Agent Domain space?
[13:36]	Ryozu Kojima:	I'm hoping to see that smoothed out, heh
[13:36]	Zero Linden:	The amount of data may not get much less... hence the transfer time might be about the same, but the stability will be great
[13:36]	Switch Case:	Zero... what does it take tog et from the current layout to this two-domain system?
[13:37]	Zero Linden:	no one sending you an IM will have to deal with the issues of you being inbetween regions --- because sending an IM means sending a message to the agent domain you are logged into
[13:37]	Rex Cronon:	do u really ned to move objects? u just need the pos, and the bounding box, right?
[13:37]	Wade Roundfield:	Will this also correct problems like losing attachments during teleport?
[13:37]	Zero Linden:	This is my primary objective for the next year.
[13:37]	Zero Linden:	My group will start the first agent domain this quarter
[13:37]	Switch Case:	attachments, rex... they have scripts and such in them
[13:38]	Zero Linden:	We will be doing it in a way that we roll it out piece by peice
[13:38]	Kooky Jetaime:	Additionally, will this solve the problem of being logged out during a sim crash? Once the Agent Domain is online, in the event of a region crash, will we just be teleported home, or to a nearby hub if its our home that goes down?
[13:38]	Switch Case:	ooh
[13:38]	Switch Case:	bonus points to kooky
[13:38]	Zero Linden:	So we'll build an agent domain that doesn't do much and migrate just a few functions to it at first
[13:38]	Khamon Fate:	That's what an object is Rex.
[13:39]	Zero Linden:	Kooky- quite possibly this architecture could make that much much better -
[13:39]	Zero Linden:	there will be no reason to disconnect your viewer, and you should be able to continue IM and group conversations
[13:39]	Khamon Fate:	Do you need some tester volunteers Zero?
[13:39]	Zero Linden:	there might still be a lag while the system determines the fate of your attachments.... we try really hard not to lose 'em
[13:40]	Switch Case:	theoretically the sim shutting down could, like, hand them to the agent domain or something
[13:40]	Rex Cronon:	hopefully this will solve the missing inventory problem
[13:40]	Zero Linden:	Rex - the simulation of an object, and it's scripts, takes a fair bit of work - and inorder to interact with the surroundings really must be done in the process that is simulating the region
[13:41]	Zero Linden:	Part of this transition will include a re-working of the interface to the inventory servers
[13:41]	Rex Cronon:	i understand, i was thinking only about the physics engine
[13:41]	Milarkus Bonetto:	Zero, do you know if the "Sending to Destination..." text ever be brought back to the teleportation viewer?
[13:41]	Zero Linden:	rather than access the db directly, the sims should be going through a web service, that has some form of transactional semantics on the backend in the agent domain
[13:41]	Switch Case:	YES
[13:41]	Switch Case:	That's criticall.
[13:42]	Switch Case:	-l
[13:42]	Switch Case:	Lack of transactioanlity causes tons of content loss every day :/
[13:42]	Zero Linden:	Gee... well, I'm not sure about specific texts in the process....
[13:42]	Zero Linden:	Switch - there IS transactional semantics in some of the system as it is built - but
[13:43]	Zero Linden:	real world systems like this can't simply dead lock - so there are timeouts etc.....
[13:43]	Zero Linden:	when things were small, this made sense
[13:43]	Switch Case:	right...
[13:43]	Zero Linden:	now - we need a somewhat different conception of how to do transactions
[13:43]	Switch Case:	well, let me give an example of what I mean: if I rez a no-copy object during a time of heavy load of some sort, the item is removed from my inventory, and then the rez fails. I lose it.
[13:43]	Switch Case:	(we have a Jira issue on this_
[13:43]	Switch Case:	)
[13:44]	Zero Linden:	Yes - we are aware
[13:44]	Deeeep Witte:	Hi All
[13:44]	Zero Linden:	There really is code in there to not remove from inventory until it is rez'd..... but there can be timing issues
[13:44]	Rex Cronon:	hi
[13:44]	Switch Case:	huh, really?
[13:44]	Zero Linden:	yup....
[13:45]	Switch Case:	the specific error I often get is "Attempt to rez object faild."
[13:45]	Zero Linden:	sometimes - the object really rez'd - you just don't ever see it......
[13:45]	Switch Case:	failed
[13:45]	Zero Linden:	sigh
[13:45]	Zero Linden:	sometimes the sim crashes first....
[13:45]	Kooky Jetaime:	Had that happen the other day
[13:45]	Switch Case:	Anyway, I don't mean to be hard on you... just wanting to make you aware :)
[13:45]	Zero Linden:	Oh - we are well aware of that particular issue and really really are working on it
[13:45]	Switch Case:	good!
[13:45]	Zero Linden:	but it isn't as simple as you might think...
[13:45]	Wade Roundfield:	In a two-domain architecture, would you grow by adding agent domains or region domains or both?
[13:45]	Switch Case:	ooh, I don't thnk it's simple ;)
[13:46]	Zero Linden:	no, alas, nothing with much data and machines is.....
[13:46]	Switch Case:	Sounds like they could grow either at the appropriate rate, Wade.
[13:46]	Zero Linden:	As things progress -- I'll be expanding on this Agent Domain / Region Domain split here.... stay tuned!
[13:46]	Wade Roundfield:	I guess my question is, would it make growth more efficient somehow.
[13:47]	Zero Linden:	which? this split? yes... yes it would because each side scales linearly with growth
[13:48]	Wade Roundfield:	Gotcha.
[13:48]	Switch Case:	Is scaling linearly with growth good enough?
[13:48]	Switch Case:	:/
[13:48]	Khamon Fate:	Welcome back Jarod
[13:48]	Switch Case:	With the explosion of users...
[13:48]	Jarod Godel waves
[13:48]	Zero Linden:	Switch- yes.
[13:48]	Switch Case:	okay :)
[13:48]	Kooky Jetaime:	With the new Agent Domain, what kind of plans are in place for when your agent domain goes down? Hopefully the robustness will be considerable in that each domain server will likely be handling a significant quantity of people, in the event one of those servers goes down, will we again just be "Dropped" or can there be some form of inherent backup domain?
[13:49]	Milarkus Bonetto:	When I have tried to build prims at times, it sometimes seems that the prim won't load. I try to make another prim, then the first prim loads, and when the 2nd one loads it is highlighted with the other one. It sometimes interrupts the building process. Do you know if this problem is being worked on?
[13:49]	Zero Linden:	yes - the design is the servers for handling logged in Agents, like the servers for handling Regions are now, are interchangable
[13:49]	Ryozu Kojima:	Interchangeable at time of crash though, I think is the question
[13:49]	Kooky Jetaime:	for example, if I'm on Server A and it crashes, could Server G (or another random one) be quietly monitoring as long as I'm logged in, when A goes kapow, G just picks right up without the need to relog
[13:49]	Zero Linden:	so if the agent server you are on goes down - then yes, everyone on that server gets logged off
[13:50]	Switch Case:	I think that'd be acceptable
[13:50]	Ryozu Kojima:	But you can log in immediatly after I imagine?
[13:50]	Switch Case:	if I could just log right back in
[13:50]	Zero Linden:	but you can log right back in again (at least as soon as we notice the down machine)
[13:50]	Zero Linden:	since any of the other agent servers can handle you
[13:50]	Ryozu Kojima:	Heh
[13:50]	Kooky Jetaime:	Zero - does that mean we will be assigned a server?
[13:50]	Ryozu Kojima:	Can't log in while your avatar is still in the metaverse, even if it's a crashed metaverse
[13:50]	Kooky Jetaime:	Or will it be more like a round robin approach that when we log in, we get an "available" sim?
[13:50]	Ryozu Kojima:	Heh
[13:50]	Switch Case:	could the agent process handle you from the very start, including login... possibly removing the current login bottleneck?
[13:50]	Zero Linden:	on the back end, if the db holding your info goes down - then you also get logged off - and have to wait until the backup db comes up
[13:50]	Khamon Fate:	We'll be spaced just like the sims are now.
[13:51]	Zero Linden:	but at least others logged in with other dbs, don't die
[13:51]	Zero Linden:	Right now, the login process, a CGI actually, handles far too much --
[13:52]	Zero Linden:	so in the new model, login.cgi is really all about authenttication and then assigning you any free agent server
[13:52]	Khamon Fate:	If Jarod could flip a switch and end all agent communication at once, would he use it?
[13:52]	Switch Case:	ah... sounds better
[13:52]	Deeeep Witte:	so this will allow limitless agents per region?
[13:52]	Zero Linden:	at that poing the rest of the process (finding a sim to place you in) goes to the agent server
[13:52]	Switch Case:	No, deeeep.
[13:52]	Deeeep Witte asks a dumb question
[13:52]	Zero Linden:	Deeeeep - no -
[13:53]	Zero Linden:	the agent limit is bounded by two factors
[13:53]	Switch Case:	(not dumb... sorry if I sounded dismissive)
[13:53]	Khamon Fate:	as a followup, will this facilitate more prims to a sim?
[13:53]	Ryozu Kojima:	I doubt it
[13:54]	Ryozu Kojima:	But I can bet creativly made Sculpted prims will do more for anyone that simply raising prim limits
[13:54]	Jarod Godel:	That's a bandwidth issue, isn't it?
[13:54]	Zero Linden:	well, three: viewer ability to render 'em, bandwidth of sending all those agent updates to each agent (n^2 problem), ability of the sim to manage those agents
[13:54]	Rex Cronon:	afk
[13:54]	Zero Linden:	probably, we'd not increase any of the limits at first: same # of prims, agents, etc....
[13:55]	Zero Linden:	we'd just sit back and enjoy the better functioning of the simulators for awhile
[13:55]	Ryozu Kojima:	See how it scales at first at least, but the possibility is there?
[13:55]	Switch Case:	Tiny Q: Why did Agent Updates per Second change?
[13:55]	Zero Linden:	...and how much computation we get back
[13:55]	Zero Linden:	Exactly
[13:55]	Khamon Fate is sorry but has to dash and asks if someone will please save a transcript of the post show discussion for him?
[13:55]	Zero Linden:	Switch - I don't know that it has
[13:55]	Deeeep Witte:	how do you see the economic impacts of this on SL? prims will become less desired with sculpted prims... ergo land will become less desired.
[13:55]	Switch Case:	hit control-shift-1.
[13:55]	Khamon Fate:	Thanks for hosting Zero, wonderful as always.
[13:55]	Switch Case:	!Note that Agent Updates/Sec = Main Agents + Child Agents ;)
[13:56]	Zero Linden:	Welcome
[13:56]	Switch Case:	(always)
[13:56]	Zero Linden:	Switch - don't know about that.... will ask....
[13:56]	Switch Case:	(I bug-reported it)
[13:56]	Zero Linden:	Deeeep - I think there is no shortage of desire for land - and I'm not sure it is solely driven by prim needs
[13:56]	Kooky Jetaime:	Switch - I've seen that statistic vary from 4 to 45 before
[13:57]	Zero Linden:	Most sims are nowhere near full of prims....
[13:57]	Ryozu Kojima:	Deeep, I don't believe that prediction will become true, while prims will be able to be conserved with sculpted prims, I simply see better looking builds with the same number of prims.
[13:57]	Zero Linden:	so I'm not worried about the economic impact of scupted prims
[13:57]	Switch Case:	It used to float around at a max of 20, Kooky
[13:57]	Kooky Jetaime:	And a significant amont of Mainland is for sale
[13:57]	Nobody Fugazi:	seems like this will solve quite a few problems... Glad to see it. :-)
[13:57]	Kooky Jetaime:	theres nearly 6km2 near me all for sale
[13:58]	Switch Case:	I bet you mean 6000sqm, cause 6km^2 is MANY sims :)
[13:58]	Nobody Fugazi:	Ryozu - look up the cost of Maya. ;-)
[13:58]	Ryozu Kojima:	They shouldn't cost anywhere near that much Nobdoy =P
[13:58]	Kooky Jetaime:	ya...
[13:58]	Zero Linden:	Kooky - I'm neither an economist or a sociologist -- I really don't understand what is going on with land sales
[13:58]	Rex Cronon:	if a converter form obj will be availabe u won't have to pay 7k
[13:59]	Jarod Godel:	MAGIC!
[13:59]	Nobody Fugazi:	would you like some insight, Zero? :-)
[13:59]	Kooky Jetaime:	I just sloppy with math.. 6K sqm
[13:59]	Ryozu Kojima:	Maya isn't going to be a prerequesite by the time it's released, I'm sure. =P
[13:59]	Nobody Fugazi:	well, I'll wait for THAT announcement, Ryozu.
[13:59]	Zero Linden:	Nobdy - I'm a computer system engineer - If you have input to the community team, they hold office hours too
[13:59]	Ryozu Kojima chuckles.
[13:59]	Zero Linden:	Not that I'm not interested, just these office hours aren't the forum
[13:59]	Nobody Fugazi:	yes, I try communicating with them and have failed. So don't worry.
[14:00]	Switch Case:	It's just funny, kooky, cause "6km square" could mean "6 kilometers, squared" (6x6 kilometers) or "6 square kilometers",but you actually meant neither ;)
[14:00]	Glitch Braess chuckles
[14:00]	Sundance Churchill:	Zero, thank you for an insiteful presentation. Do you know who i can speak with about a specific problem regarding random prim rotation? We have filed amny bug reports for months now, and I waste hours every day due to it.
[14:00]	Deeeep Witte:	can you already try out scultpted prims.... or is this virtual vaporware?
[14:00]	Kooky Jetaime:	Switch - I love numbers... Can say many different things with 1 number.
[14:00]	Zero Linden:	Switch / Kooky - I have long since given up trying to rationalize the way we notate land area in SL!
[14:00]	Switch Case grins
[14:00]	Deeeep Witte grins
[14:00]	Nobody Fugazi:	Zero, what do you think of Moore's Law as applied to land in SL? :-)
[14:01]	Jarod Godel:	Because SL isn't software, IT'S A WORLD!
[14:01]	Deeeep Witte chuckles at the concept of virtual vaporware
[14:01]	Ryozu Kojima:	I don't think these questions apply to Zero's area of expertise guys
[14:01]	Zero Linden:	Again - trying to apply technology measures to social phenomenon is fraught with peril
[14:01]	Kooky Jetaime:	Zero- where would be a good place to inquire on additional information being added to the wiki with regards to what everything on the stats (C+S+1) means? like Script Perf.
[14:02]	Nobody Fugazi:	well, Moore's Law and computer hardware would indicate a sim would be outdated in about 2 evolutions of Moore's Law.
[14:02]	Zero Linden:	Kooky - I think there is a wiki page on those stats - add your question to it!
[14:02]	Zero Linden:	okay all - I must go - it is 2pm
[14:02]	Kooky Jetaime:	ok.. I was looking for it but not able to find it
[14:02]	Wade Roundfield:	Zero, it sounds like thiis new architecture would lessen many of the problems that are outlined in the Open Letter...but it sounds like the switch will take a yeear or more....
[14:02]	Zero Linden:	Thank you all for coming.....
[14:02]	Nobody Fugazi:	see ya Zero. :-)
[14:02]	Sundance Churchill sighs
[14:02]	Zero Linden:	I've caught up on getting the transcripts up on the wiki
[14:02]	Rex Cronon:	bye
[14:02]	Zero Linden:	I'll have this one up soon too
[14:02]	Deeeep Witte:	bye
[14:02]	Ian Priestman:	Thanks Zero
[14:02]	Zha Ewry:	Thanks, as always
[14:02]	Ryozu Kojima:	Later Zero =)
[14:02]	Kooky Jetaime:	Thanks Zero
[14:02]	Switch Case:	Thanks :)
[14:02]	Nobody Fugazi gave you GPL ChatLogger 0.1.
[14:03]	TerryAnn Antonelli:	Page Explaining Stats: http://secondlife.com/knowledgebase/article.php?id=174