User:Torley Linden/Office Hours/2007-07-27

6 AM

Torley Linden: Heyhey everyone!
Hirokii Hyun: Sup, Torley.
Amon26 Yellowjacket: hio torley ^^
Torley Linden: Rezzing in!
Chase Marellan: Good morning, Torley!
DJ Jenns: hola torley!
Vivienne Graves: Morning, Torley
Amon26 Yellowjacket: on my way to bed, so i have to say hi/bye torley ^,^
Torley Linden: Good morning, or whatever time of day it is where you are!
DJ Jenns: oh my god lol
Torley Linden: Awww okay hi/bye Amon26!
Torley Linden: Have a good sleep!
Amon26 Yellowjacket: toodles! ^,^ thx
DJ Jenns: brings a new meaning to melonhead
Simon Kline: hehe 11pm in Australia
Torley Linden: So, yeah, this latest avatar of mine, was derived from a Pokemon/watermelon interest, to say the least.
Torley Linden: It's so cool how we can talk around time zones.
DJ Jenns: err
DJ Jenns: lol
Lyndsey Forager: hey torley
Hirokii Hyun: I noticed. Why would you take a /b/tard meme anyway, I thought LL wasn't too 4chan friendly?
Torley Linden: Until we get RL teleporting there's not an easier way to be at the same time.
Hirokii Hyun: At least with the patriotic nigra business.
Chase Marellan: Definitely. Makes the world a lot smaller.
Lyndsey Forager: loving the av today torley
Beta Bates: As long as I don't have to beta test RL teleportation. :P
Kiddoh Korobase: Script run-time error
Kiddoh Korobase: Stack-Heap Collision
Chase Marellan: hehehehe....
Torley Linden: Hirokii: Because it's originally a Pokemon — among my faves, actually. Slowpoke is another. I prefer Pichu over Pikachu. :)
Simon Kline: heh yes!! your office hours are perfect for aussies torley you're one later in the day is like 7am on our saturday
DJ Jenns: its like a melon version of pac-man
DJ Jenns: lol
DJ Jenns: pfft slowpoke! Squitle!!!
DJ Jenns: squirtle even :p
Torley Linden: Squirtle's okay too!
DJ Jenns: hhehe
Torley Linden: I haven't kept up with the latest Pokemon, now they have all sorts of crazy themed editions... Pearl?! What in blazes!?
Hirokii Hyun: Anyway, I don't have a lot of time, so if anyone else doesn't mind, can I get three quick questions out of the way? They're general interest anyhow.
Torley Linden: Oh please ask!
Daedalus Young: hi
Hirokii Hyun: Alright, first off.
Hirokii Hyun: Is Voice coming to the main client, and if so, When?
Hirokii Hyun: I think it has a lot of potential as a performance tool to musicians, actors, stuff like that.
Torley Linden: Great question -- Voice Team knows better than I but I hope that rollout, tentatively speaking, is within a month.
Vivienne Graves: THere are already audio streams for that
Nova Halderman: hi Torley! Nice to meet you
Hirokii Hyun: Audio streams are a hassle to work with.
Hirokii Hyun: I know this for a fact.
Kiddoh Korobase: oh lawd, Wai you do this Brown?
Torley Linden: Could be sooner, or later, depending on other work going on. I like Voice's spatialization... fun to watch someone with a guitar play it and walk around.
Vivienne Graves: but they're also much higher quality than voice for something like a musical performance
Hirokii Hyun: I just think it's already smooth enough to integrate into main.
Hirokii Hyun: Voice is pretty okay for musicial performances as is.
Hirokii Hyun: And it enables us to do things like acting.
Hirokii Hyun: I conducted a "play" the other day with a few friends using it.
Hirokii Hyun: It was great fun.
Kamael Xevious: Only if you lay out the fundage for the equipment, Viv... not really an option for a lot of people.
Hirokii Hyun: Yeah
Torley Linden: *nod* We seem to have fixed most of the crashes and UI tweaks... there are some bugs left to resolve before we think it's good to go.
Lyndsey Forager: torley - on the new wageriung policy - does it affect sploderballs and raffle balls? - do you know?
Torley Linden: Acting is a great point.
Torley Linden: I think about stand-up comedy.
Hirokii Hyun: Though, one thing Voice does need is a way to have people with it off see that people are talking with voice.
Angsty Rossini: please keep the spolders!!
Hirokii Hyun: I have a lot of people come into my club and we're all just quiet, they leave because they think we're all idling.
Torley Linden: Lyndsey: Ah! I don't know that for sure, that's one of those cases where I'd consult legal advice depending on your jurisdiction.
Lyndsey Forager: lol, i do like a sploder - i wond rather a lot of L$ on them
Vivienne Graves: Or perhaps for people with voice to see that those who don't have it can't hear them
DJ Jenns: lolol
Torley Linden: "Sploder" is such a funny word too.
Hirokii Hyun: My next question is. What's the deal with Windlight? Do we have a basic ETA on when it'll at least hit First look again?
Kamael Xevious: Torley, I'm sorry to say this, but that's a cop out. The issue isn't legal. It's whether our accounts will be closed for a rules violation.
DJ Jenns: o_0
Lyndsey Forager: last week over L$2000 - i was rather impressed - thats a lot of hair and shoes
Kamael Xevious: NOT whether it's legal in Ohio or Illinois or wherever we are. We need an answer on a LINDEN RULE, not the law.
Torley Linden: Hirokii: OK, that one I do know more about because I'm WindLight Product Manager. So, that one, hopefully within a month it will be re-released as First Look: WindLight.
Chase Marellan: Unfortunately, I'm going to have to agree with Kamael there.
Nova Halderman: haha Lyndsey
Torley Linden: This is somewhat dependent on the timing of other things like Voice, because two First Looks may be too confusing.
Kamael Xevious: If you can't answer it, fine, but then refer us to someone who can.
Hirokii Hyun: Yeah, I know you don't know everything, but I figure a little linden insight is better than none.
Bart Heart: Hey Mystik
Torley Linden: Kamael and Chase: Ah, sorry, I don't know. I do know a lot of those questions are being checked out by our Legal & Governance Team, so perhaps if we can provide more clarification, we'll post more on the blog soon. :)
Lyndsey Forager: its a worrying thing - you dont want to be deleted for playing a game
Guney Shilova: Hey!!
Guney Shilova: How are you?
Igel Hawks: Hi
Chase Marellan: Fair enough! :)
Kamael Xevious: Thanks, Torley... that does help.
Hirokii Hyun: Since I opened a club with Samus recently. I noticed a really annoying issue with SL's building framework and it irked me as a game modder who has done level building in other engines.
Torley Linden: Hirokii: And currently I'm helping debug WindLight, I definitely would like to see it out there again...
Hirokii Hyun: Basically, I'm wondering why LL doesn't allow "Megaprims" by default?
Torley Linden: some people say I'm torturing them with my screenshots.
Torley Linden: It's not my intention. :)
DJ Jenns: I cant see that happening right now Lyndsey - im sure this is just a shot across the bow as it were - a warning that this might be an area of contention
Beta Bates laughs
Torley Linden: Aka http://www.flickr.com/photos/torley/
Beta Bates: I miss windlight soo much.
Hirokii Hyun: I had to use a bunch of those old bugged megaprims to help save on our prim limits. I can understand the limit for keeping out prims beyond 70x70
Beta Bates pouts.
Guney Shilova: How can i get teleported to NYC? LOL
Torley Linden: As for "megaprims", this is mostly due to them having been used to grief other people.
Lyndsey Forager: he he- good, i can spend my winning guilt free
Lyndsey Forager: lol
Hirokii Hyun: But 20x20 or 40x40 are incredibly useful.
Rock Pond Pose ball: llStopAnimation: Script trying to stop animations but agent not found
Vivienne Graves: LL don't allow megaprims on the mainland at all, technically, as far as I know
Torley Linden: For example, on the mainland, you can rez a very big megaprim and blot out your neighbors, and cause them much woe. :\
Vivienne Graves: thyey cause server lag
Mystik Boucher: Torley, you guys need a union -- maybe fight for private islands.
DJ Jenns: sounds like fun torley!
DJ Jenns: lol
Lyndsey Forager: lol
Mystik Boucher: This place is lagged.
Mystik Boucher: Phew.
Torley Linden: There are additionally rendering complications when they're so large, necessitating BIG draw distance.
Hirokii Hyun: They have a very practical purpose. I mean, Again, I can understand not super huge ones.
Hirokii Hyun: But 20x20 seems reasonable.
Torley Linden: We've discussed allowing megaprims on private estates. That is dependent on Havok-4 work too, to some extent...
Guney Shilova: OMG! Supermelon! LOL
Hirokii Hyun: It's just a real pain in the ass to build anything big without them.
Torley Linden: we should also have a better way to clear obstructing junk encroaching on your parcel, whether it's a megaprim or not.
Vivienne Graves: THere's also the issue that their creation was via an explot and not sanctioned by LL
Mystik Boucher: Bart, I read Torley's profile, she's not our go-to for this situation. We'll need to find someone who deals in that area.
Mystik Boucher: You know of anyone else Bart so I can profile them?
Torley Linden: Thanks for reading my profile. :)
Lyndsey Forager: Torley - loved your tips and tricks with the client menu - very usfull
DJ Jenns: so what comes after windlight then torley
Torley Linden: Vivienne: Yes, it was a rather "creative" advent...
DJ Jenns: any sneak peeks ?
Igel Hawks: I like it Torley LOL
Hirokii Hyun: I don't really see a problem with it if it's not being used maliciously. If it's being used for creativity's sake. I think LL has always condoned creative activity.
Kiddoh Korobase: If I were to read everyone's profile... Would I be a bad enough d00d to save the president?
Torley Linden: DJ Jenns: More phases of WindLight. The new WindLight viewer will give ya more than a pretty sky... you also get GLOW as a build parameter. Great for neon signs and lightsabers etc.
Hirokii Hyun: Just like anything else, a tool can be used for evil as well as good.
Brown Boa: I fear not
Bart Heart: None that are online
Torley Linden: There's been considerable work done on the ripple water and shiny -- which looks shinier than ever before.
Mystik Boucher: :(
Torley Linden: Hirokii: Yup, and in SL... there are many tools which can be used in so many ways.
DJ Jenns: will that be a similar effect to the renderglow option ?
Hirokii Hyun: Another issue I have with the build system. Are we ever going to get any kind of Texture locking to world?
Daedalus Young: refelctive water looks good
Torley Linden: DJ Jenns: Yes, it's the successor of RenderGlow, controllable per-texture-face.
Torley Linden: You can set the intensity from 0.0-1.0.
Hirokii Hyun: Dealing with texture alignment was critical for our club, and it's incredibly hard to pull off with all the various prim sizes
Hirokii Hyun: Since textures are affected greatly by prim size.
Torley Linden: So it doesn't light ALL light sources within a scene, but does so selectively.
DJ Jenns: w
Torley Linden: And it's independent of Full Bright and local lighting.
Mystik Boucher: Torley, this is totally off subject but I've always been curious.. What type of computer setup do you get to work with at Linden Research?
DJ Jenns: but you could combine the two ?
DJ Jenns: glow and local lighting
Vivienne Graves: Well, you know, you probably know how to use Photoshop; if you do, yuou can create versions of your textures that will seamlessly work on differing prim sizes, I should think
Kiddoh Korobase: lol what about fabric prims, why do we not have them? Flew prims just don't do justice.
Orzga Aabye: i just noticed that certain floors do reflections
Torley Linden: Mystik: At Linden Lab, there are many diverse computers, including various Quality Assurance rigs. My own is an Opteron 170 with NVIDIA GeForce 7800 GT. Mid-range.
Vivienne Graves: without needing LL to hold your hand for tyyou
Orzga Aabye: i was amazed
Kiddoh Korobase: flex*
Hirokii Hyun: Vivienne: For something that's in nearly EVERY game engine, it seems more like a basic that should've been included from the start.
Bart Heart: Im sure if you ask Torley she can point you in the right direction
Torley Linden: Kiddoh: Fabric prims? Elaborate please?
Hirokii Hyun: That costs MORE money to do, etc.
Torley Linden: DJ Jenns: Yes, you can combine glow and local lighting. It's awesome.
Hirokii Hyun: I don't want to have to upload 4 different textures of the same texture
Kiddoh Korobase: Well something that can colide but is flexable
Torley Linden: I may think of upgrading to a quad-core later this year or the next, we'll see. It's pretty lucrative for multitasking and prices have just dropped on Intel's Q6600 a lot.
Bart Heart: I would say Zee Linden since he is incharge of fraud, he may be at Metas Meeting at 10am
Daedalus Young: just build smart, se math to calculate your prim sizes, texture sizes and offsets
Kiddoh Korobase: Like brown's hat, it goes through him. But a fabric like prim would uh... not go through him... ya know?
Hirokii Hyun: Daedalus: That's not building smart, that's building impractically. You shouldn't have to do that.
Hirokii Hyun: It's a big hassle.
Torley Linden: I wish we could free-drag texture offsets instead of putting in numbers; that's been a wish for me for awhile.
DJ Jenns: is LL planning to release a 64bit version of the client ?
Mystik Boucher: Torley: Sorry to hear that. Btw, great tutorials on youtube, I watched a view when I was fresh out the litter box. You should start like a site called "www.sl-noobtube.com". I think you'd be the next Gates hon.
Hirokii Hyun: Coming from someone whose done level design and level building, it's just completley impractical.
Aimee Congrejo: Torley, any idea when SL will start taking advantage of multicores? Cuz it only sits on one core on my Mac Pro ^^
Torley Linden: Kiddoh: I suspect what you're talking about would be very cool but require more computer power....
Daedalus Young: yes, but there's no real alternative now
Orzga Aabye: computers should do the math.
Kiddoh Korobase: Awe ;<
Daedalus Young: there are some aligning scripts, but that's hassle too
Hirokii Hyun: Shooting down arguements to /get/ them in for the sake of "There's no real alternative right now" will never get anything changed :)
Hirokii Hyun: I know there's workarounds, but what I'm asking is if there will ever be a time where they aren't nessicary.
Torley Linden: Aimee: Great question. SL is already multithreaded for some things like part of the texture pipeline, I think (Steve would know more) via Client menu > Rendering > Run Multiple Threads.
Torley Linden: Full multi-core compatibility is likely still a ways away, I don't know a dedicated project for it but we have done work on making Second Life more cooperative with other programs on your OS.
Torley Linden: For example, if SL is in the background, it'll use considerably less CPU.
Hirokii Hyun: Another thing, are we ever going to get architexture based shadows? I'm not talking realtime shadows. Just something updated now and then for architexture so I can do proper lighting in a club or large setting. Having lighting clip through walls makes it very hard to light tight crampt areas with indoor and outdoor areas.
Warren Flanagan: I herd u liek mudkips?
Torley Linden: Mystik: Hehe thanks re: video tutorials!
Hirokii Hyun: Something we can generate manually or something.
Hirokii Hyun: Dynamically generated shadowmaps, I'd guess you call them.
Torley Linden: Hirokii: Great question, that's one you should definitely ask Qarl Linden about at his Office Hours.
Torley Linden: He's an expert in that area... and he's been working on similar research.
Hirokii Hyun: Good to hear that someone has been
Aimee Congrejo: Yah Torley, I've got that turned on, but even with that turned on it's only using like 13% of each CPU of my Mac Pro 8-core 3 GHz...I was in Samurai Island last nite getting less than 1 FPS even tho sim FPS was 45 cuz there were so many avies to render.
Torley Linden: Qarl has a great appreciation for aesthetic beauty.
Torley Linden: Aimee: Oh geez it sounds like you have such a powerful system! Yeah, that's definitely an area where we could improve how SL uses your available resources.
Hirokii Hyun: I'd love to see that. Seeing as how I don't like depending on outdoor lighting for my indoor enviroments.
Hirokii Hyun: It really botches up a good interior enviroment D:
Brown Boa: hmm imlagging up here
Hirokii Hyun: Also, are we ever getting support for some kind of shader tech in second life? Like uploading our own bumpmaps for textures or proper normal mapping?
DJ Jenns: no lag here
Vivienne Graves: you don't have to depend on outdoor lighting for indoor environments; you can use lighting indoors.
Hirokii Hyun: Maybe specular mapping / cubemap supports for proper shiny effects?
Brown Boa: must be my graphics
JayR Cela: hello all :_)
Aimee Congrejo: Brown...love the lag, embrace the lag, toss the lag monster a cookie ^^
Hirokii Hyun: Cubemaps are cheap.
Torley Linden: If things go as planned, WindLight will encompass multiple phases... of various graphical enhancements. Obviously we start with the sky because that's such a big target.
Warren Flanagan: uploading our own bumpmaps would be awesome
Beta Bates: Yah. No lag here either. Just a *lot9* of poly.
Vivienne Graves: THere are various ways to script physical lights, etc.
Hirokii Hyun: Cubemaps are cheap rendering speaking, of course.
Daedalus Young: custom bumpmaps is a feature request in JIRA already :)
Torley Linden: Hirokii: Yes, that's been discussed too as part of WindLight -- could be easier in the future. We've been thinking about a new materials system.
Igel Hawks: Great to hear
Hirokii Hyun: That'd be nice.
Hirokii Hyun: I'd love to see refractive windows.
Hirokii Hyun: Would really add life to the game.
Torley Linden: I don't like being confined to current bumpmaps either, there are so few.
Hirokii Hyun: Yeah, Brightness and darkness just don't cut it.
Chase Marellan: I'd settle for being able to layer two transparent prims.
Torley Linden: Aye. Too harsh-looking in some settings too.
Hirokii Hyun: And trying to do an enviroment that looks wet or slick from rain is important.
Torley Linden: Chase: Without the annoying flickering?
Hirokii Hyun: Also, are we ever going to get a fix for layering multiple transparent prims? That's a KILLER on furry heads. Like what chase said.
Chase Marellan: Yep.
Hirokii Hyun: It's vastly irritating for hair on furry avatars.
Vivienne Graves: and updating the graphics engine beyond 1999 technology, too...new materials, bumpmapping, new avatar mesh, etc
Tayste Waydelich: Is there any technical reason why one cannot provide their own bumpmaps?
Kiddoh Korobase: It's castly irritating for hair in general
Torley Linden: I don't know about that, isn't Z-fighting a classic problem in computer graphics not particular to SL? I know it looks ugly.
Daedalus Young: User-defined bumpmaps: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1155
At0m0 Beerbaum: samus
Vivienne Graves: Hair, and shoes made with invisiprims
At0m0 Beerbaum: !
Daedalus Young: vote if you want it!
Hirokii Hyun: It's a classic problem, but there have been ways around it.
Lyndsey Forager: i must admit to loving shiney hair
Vivienne Graves: anything with an alpha texture near another alpha texture
Torley Linden: :D
Daedalus Young: z-fighting and z-buffer transparency issues are classic realtime 3D rendering problems
Torley Linden: I like shiny hair! Glad ot hear you do too Lyndsey.
Hirokii Hyun: Another question I have. Will we ever get the abbility to use alpha maps to define Mesh visibility on an avatar? Using Invisiprims is a KILLER for some avatars in immersion
Hirokii Hyun: Whenever you walk over alpha textures especially.
Kiddoh Korobase: What is this game called? Is it... Battletoads? D:
Hirokii Hyun: You just see this giant blob of invisibleness around avatars.
DJ Jenns: lol battletoads
DJ Jenns: i had that !
Brown Boa: its final fantasy
Torley Linden: Battletoads? I remember that game. Remember the one where they fought alongside Double Dragon?
Kiddoh Korobase: oh
Daedalus Young: the transparent problems can be solved if you subdivide meshes on-the-fly, that can become very slow with larger and more complex objects though
Hirokii Hyun: This is especially prevelant on furry digitrade legs and shoes.
DJ Jenns: Snes :D
Mystik Boucher: Bart it;s time for me to relog, I feel the crash coming :(
Beta Bates: Forogt all about having that. Wow.
Bart Heart: hehe
Samus Fardel: Lol @ battle toads and double dragon
Mystik Boucher: Torley: did you ever IRC anywhere? you're a chatass ;)
Beta Bates misses his Sega Genesis
Kiddoh Korobase: oh lawd Double Dragon don't tempt me to play that theme song
Torley Linden: Hirokii: Oh gosh you're hitting on a lot of great topics which came up internally; I can't say definitively if we will "ever" but that's another thing that's been wanted, and some work has been done in related areas internally.
Hirokii Hyun: I don't think we have to subdivide meshes. Just have a way of turning parts of the avatar invisible easily.
Beta Bates: No Z fighting on the Genesis. :P
DJ Jenns: Beta @ Streets of Rage
Beta Bates: No Z. Period.
Beta Bates: oooh.
Torley Linden: For example, not having to render avatar hair (the body part) scrunched up in someone's skull when they use prim hair... would be more efficient.
At0m0 Beerbaum: upgrading the physics engine would be good too
Daedalus Young: oh, transparent avs, I thought you meant transparency ordering errors
Torley Linden: Mystik: I did on occasion but I sure love pictures.
Torley Linden: I'm very visual.
DJ Jenns: at0m0 they are working on the Havok 4 physics upgrade...if i remember rightly
Aimee Congrejo: LOL Torley, you don't say? =^.^=
Hirokii Hyun: I really love SL as a creative platform. It's brilliant, yet incredibly difficult in a lot of ways.
Torley Linden: Some people always raise privacy concerns with "transparent avatar meshes", but then again, we can always see someone on the Mini-Map, and there are current ways to hide underground with an animation... it's kludgy.
Hirokii Hyun: And LL has this irritating habbit of announcing things but never externally following up, even if they're doing so internally.
Torley Linden: Hirokii: Yeah. I love seeing answers to longtime problems that lead us onto new things.
Hirokii Hyun: Havok 4 is a good example.
Torley Linden: I agree to an extent about the followup, having kept track of features that, "Where the heck did they go?!"
Daedalus Young: Alpha for avatar skin-colour: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-812
Daedalus Young: vote vote vote!
Nova Halderman: crash and burn
Hirokii Hyun: Also, are we ever going to get a proper ingame support or LL supported plugin for sculpts for Blender?
Torley Linden: DJ Jenns: Yes, Andrew Linden & the guys from Havok are continuing to grind away on Havok-4.
Hirokii Hyun: It seems like anyone making sculpts either has to jump through a TON of hoops, or use Maya.
At0m0 Beerbaum: torley, is it true that the server software may be opensourced in the near future?
Simon Kline: hehe sounds like they're bringing their powertools with them
Torley Linden: Hirokii: The next steps in sculpties will be inworld editors like Snurbo'Matic which Anjin Meili has already made. Eventually we'd like an inworld editor built into the system. As for Blender-specific support, I don't know.
At0m0 Beerbaum: just sans the havok engine
Hirokii Hyun: It's one thing if people pirate maya to make free things. It's another if they want to sell commercially availible products. That's lawsuit central.
Daedalus Young: there already exists OpenSim
JayR Cela: there are some blender import export tools available on their website
Torley Linden: But I do know some Residents have been enthusiastic about providing support for their fave 3D app.
At0m0 Beerbaum: haha opensim
At0m0 Beerbaum: HAHAHA
Hirokii Hyun: JayR: They're also crap.
Torley Linden: I've just been getting into playing with sculpties, Sculptypaint sure is a lot of fun.
Vivienne Graves: Actually, pirating Maya to 'make free things' isn't alright eithe
DJ Jenns: hahaha ?
At0m0 Beerbaum: have you ever RAN one of those servers?
Daedalus Young: no
Vivienne Graves: rYou apparently aren't acquainted with copyright law
At0m0 Beerbaum: exactly
At0m0 Beerbaum: I ran one to test it out
DJ Jenns: whats wrong with it ?
Torley Linden: OpenSim and other open source innovations will help point the way towards what is possible.
At0m0 Beerbaum: crashes, uses more ram than the system has
JayR Cela: Hiro / ooops / sorry I never tried useing them :_)
At0m0 Beerbaum: clunky, slow
At0m0 Beerbaum: etc
DJ Jenns: wtf
DJ Jenns: at0m0
Tayste Waydelich: Have you heard anything recent about LSL? The news on the possible mono shift is quite old.
At0m0 Beerbaum: mono = HORRID language
DJ Jenns: you do realise right
Torley Linden: Some stuff performs like crap but you look at it and go, "Hmm... there's potential... keep going."
DJ Jenns: your running like 4 servers on one machine
Hirokii Hyun: Lua would be far more appropriate.
DJ Jenns: each one has its own machine with LL
Torley Linden: For anyone curious about sculpted prims... http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Sculpted_Prims
At0m0 Beerbaum: torley, the problem with opensim is the language it uses
Torley Linden: (Who hasn't seen that yet!)
Hirokii Hyun: Lua is all the rage these days with it's flash to light with Garry's mod.
At0m0 Beerbaum: mono is a horrible language
Hirokii Hyun: Torley, one question though.
Hirokii Hyun: Two BIG problems I have with sculpts are this:
JayR Cela: In regards to Mono the open source folks are working on it / but is still up in the air
At0m0 Beerbaum: I mean, they would have been better off with java for god's sake
Shinee Jewell: is there an update on sculpties?
Torley Linden: Hirokii: You sure have a lot of questions. =D
Hirokii Hyun: It's nearly impossible to make anything that isn't mostly spherical in design. You can do it, but it come sout weird unless you're really lucky.
Daedalus Young: I don't know Mono, but if it's Microsoft, it probably is not very easy to use :/
DJ Jenns: thought you were only asking a few lmfao
Daedalus Young: I like lsl as it is now
Hirokii Hyun: Are we ever going to get support for non-spherebased sculpts?
Torley Linden: Hirokii: Oh, like something with a hole in it?
Hirokii Hyun: Yeah
Kamael Xevious: I've never used a sphere... I work with cubes, mostly.
Warren Flanagan: yea support for 2D sculpts would be handy too
Kamael Xevious: ?
Hirokii Hyun: There's fancier words for it but you know.
Hirokii Hyun: I just dislike being confined to round objects for sculpts.
Orzga Aabye: mapping from a sphere, can't have holes
Kamael Xevious: LOD on sculpties is a problem,t hough.
Torley Linden: I don't know more about that, but Qarl and Periapse Linden might. I would hope the future of sculpties allows more flexibility that way.
Hirokii Hyun: Yeah
Hirokii Hyun: Another big problem I have with sculpts:
Kiddoh Korobase: ♥
Shinee Jewell: good
Orzga Aabye: know topo invariant lol
Tayste Waydelich: Sadly, LSL as it is now is terribly prone to sim-crashes.
Hirokii Hyun: You have to delete the north and south pole.
Torley Linden: Yeah, culling vertices at distances looks very rough.
At0m0 Beerbaum: but is it true the server software may be opensourced soon?
Torley Linden: Oooh a Unicode heart!
Hirokii Hyun: Which causes the weird Swirly capping
Torley Linden: At0m0: Not soon, that I know of...
Hirokii Hyun: Which looks ugly as hell.
Kamael Xevious: Close them back up, Hirokii.
At0m0 Beerbaum: I heard the OSS devs were slowly merging it into the SVN trunk
At0m0 Beerbaum: but that could be a lie
At0m0 Beerbaum: or a rumor
Hirokii Hyun: Kamael: You have to delete the poles to get them into SL. That's just how it works.
Torley Linden: we're continuing to see how well contributors to the Viewer source code are doing, tho... including the Hippo awards for Open Source Innovators. :)
DJ Jenns: or both
DJ Jenns: lolol
Kamael Xevious: Then close the poles back up, Hirokii.
Kamael Xevious: I do it all the time.
At0m0 Beerbaum: technically, couldnt a viewer be modified to handle graphics differently?
Daedalus Young: make te pole holes as small as possible
Hirokii Hyun: No matter what you're going to get that swirly effect.
Kamael Xevious: Right.
At0m0 Beerbaum: like when it comes down to viewing graphics?
Aimee Congrejo: Yah Torley...I didn't see me nominated for most annoying Jira contributor LOL
Torley Linden: I'm looking for a nice easy way to paint UV map textures for sculpties, anyone got recommendations?
Kamael Xevious: But you can minimize it down to the point that it's not noticeable, Hirokii.
Torley Linden: Aimee: But you're not annoying! You're so helpful!
Hirokii Hyun: It'd be nice if we had straightforward, easy to use tools like Sculptypaint for non symetrical objects.
Aimee Congrejo: Torley...just joking ^^ My usual sarcastic manner ^^
Torley Linden: "Linden Lab to recognize Open Source Contributors" - http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/07/17/linden-lab-to-recognize-open-source-contributors/
Daedalus Young: I now use Blender's textures and bake that on an image, that works
At0m0 Beerbaum: Also, another question, are any of the OSS or linux devs on this game?
Tayste Waydelich: Technically,the viewer could be ANSI. Depends on the will of the developer spending time on whatever project.
Torley Linden: Haha Aimee. Well I am serious, thanks again for all your help there.
At0m0 Beerbaum: I know what they could do for multimedia playback under linux
Kamael Xevious: LOD would help there, if increased.
Tayste Waydelich: A few.
Aimee Congrejo: Thankies Torley! ^^
Hirokii Hyun: OH!
Hirokii Hyun: Torley, another question, And yeah, I'm full of them :p
Torley Linden: Sculptypaint is getting some new features like a bezier editor I think?
Torley Linden: It can already do some weird-ass shiznit.
At0m0 Beerbaum: using either A) gstreamer backend (yuck) b) xine/mplayer or c) videolan
Torley Linden: I'll keep an eye on it.
Hirokii Hyun: Will we ever get more media support for video? Audio supports Ogg vorbis which is great alternative to mp3
Hirokii Hyun: However, it would really be nice if we had support for FLV, MPEG, DivX
At0m0 Beerbaum: or even better, rewrite the multimedia backend for the SL client to have a plugins system
Hirokii Hyun: FLV especially. So we could stream youtube or google video stuff.
At0m0 Beerbaum: or wma
Angsty Rossini: FLV?? ick!
Hirokii Hyun: Hardly anyone uses mov for the most part.
At0m0 Beerbaum: and mov is horrible for streamining
At0m0 Beerbaum: streaming*
Hirokii Hyun: Angsty: FLV is ick but it's widely availible. Not everyone has their own server to stream video off of.
Torley Linden: Hirokii: Ah, well one thing we've wrestled with is... as we go open source, it's nice to use open source libraries so we can distribute them more freely... video formats, I'm not sure, but we added the ability to upload PNGs as textures not too long ago, thanks to an open source contributor.
Hirokii Hyun: So playing a youtube clip is a lot more accessable.
DJ Jenns: no but mpeg4 is ok for steaming
Tayste Waydelich: Parcel streams can also handle mp4, Hirokii.
Daedalus Young: mpeg-4 is used when streaming from blip.tv right?
DJ Jenns: works with SDP's
Torley Linden: I've been using MP4 myself, after doing my own encodes.
At0m0 Beerbaum: TBH, using quicktime is.. ugh
Torley Linden: http://torley.com/how-to-convert-youtube-videos-for-playing-in-second-life
At0m0 Beerbaum: the best solution for multimedia playback would be a plugins system
Tateru Nino: There are patches in the works for gstreamer support.
Hirokii Hyun: I know it's best to use Open source stuff. But that doesn't mean we can't have a plugins system liek Atomo says.
At0m0 Beerbaum: so people can use their favorite player or media backend
At0m0 Beerbaum: at least for movie playback
Hirokii Hyun: LL could just make an arrangement with DivX or what have you to include a DivX plugin for SL
Hirokii Hyun: Stuff like that
Torley Linden: With plugins tho, people who want to be able to play certain formats would have to all download those plugins, right?
Hirokii Hyun: That way you don't have to expose it.
Daedalus Young: as long as nobody starts using RealMedia for their parcels :/
At0m0 Beerbaum: I know SL has its own music streaming built in
Warren Flanagan: playing video inworld is disastrous for my fairly midrange PC as it stands
Hirokii Hyun: Yet you still get the advantage of open source
DJ Jenns: Torley - we'd quickly make a codec pack ;)
Warren Flanagan: i have a feeling plugins would make that even worse
At0m0 Beerbaum: torley, no
Torley Linden: Haha, the humor in this is that Philip Linden used to work at RealNetworks.
Hirokii Hyun: Buffering
At0m0 Beerbaum: plugins that interface with certain players
DJ Jenns: lmao
Daedalus Young: yes, I know
DJ Jenns: ouch
At0m0 Beerbaum: like a vlc plugin that initializes VLC in game
Tateru Nino: Again, gstreamer support is apparently being merged in, and that has plugin support.
JayR Cela: Divxx Rocks big time I would like to see that supported
At0m0 Beerbaum: or mplayer
Angsty Rossini: VLC - nice!! :)
Hirokii Hyun: Like I said, though.
At0m0 Beerbaum: mor mediaplayer classic
At0m0 Beerbaum: xine,
At0m0 Beerbaum: gstreamer
At0m0 Beerbaum: etc
Orzga Aabye: real strangely wants to take over the desk top ...
Torley Linden: I didn't know about Gstreamer support... thanks Tat.
Hirokii Hyun: I'd like Support for DivX stage 6, Youtube, stuff like that.
Torley Linden: There's a lot going on, on so many fronts.
Tateru Nino: It's news from a couple weeks back but easy to miss.
Torley Linden: I think it's immensely rewarding that you can easier find a focus of interest in Second Life and really excel at it. Always more to learn.
Tayste Waydelich: It is my understanding that FMOD natively supports a few DSP filters. Are there currently any plans to incorporate such features into LSL, such as pitch alteration/etc?
Orzga Aabye: it was the begingin of the desktop as commercial real estate
JayR Cela: Real network is a piece of %$#& it takes over your system , just as someone else has allready pointed out
At0m0 Beerbaum: and making x window calls in linux wouldnt be hard in opengl, beryl renders the desktop in 3d ;P
Hirokii Hyun: I think once Sculpties get put in the hand of the "common man" instead of just people who have Maya would be really nice.
Hirokii Hyun: it will be*
Orzga Aabye: i think they just understood a commerical realisty
Orzga Aabye: /reality/
Hirokii Hyun: Oh yeah, Torley, two more things.
Torley Linden: YouTube's an interesting case... eventually they are going to encode stuff in H.264 for Apple TV. I wonder if they'll encode all videos on their site that way...
Orzga Aabye: althouh it was a pain
Orzga Aabye: /isi/
Hirokii Hyun: Does LL have any intention of letting us stream to objects instead of a whole parcel for audio? We can do that with video, but not for Audio.
Torley Linden: then they're all playable with QuickTime, and hence, within Second Life.
Shinee Jewell: has anyone seen the in-world scupltie tools that TheBlack Box has?
Angsty Rossini: Torley, I thought YouTube had already converted about 10000 to H.264
At0m0 Beerbaum: It would probably be in LL's best interest to stay away from propreietary code
Chase Marellan: Hirokii: You can't do that with video.
Hirokii Hyun: And I'd like to stream to a bunch of "Prim speakers" instead of to an entire parcel.
Igel Hawks: That would be great Torley
Torley Linden: Tayste: Hmm... we've had some devs interested in upgrading audio (kinda the sonic equivalent of WindLight) but, no current plans to definitely do that.
Chase Marellan: Or if you can, please tell ME how!
Hirokii Hyun: Chase: Yes, you can, you replace textures on the parcel with the media.
Hirokii Hyun: That's how it's always worked.
Daedalus Young: I've seen, Shinee, but not yet used
Hirokii Hyun: The video itself is localized. The audio isnt
Hirokii Hyun: Simple as that.
Torley Linden: Angsty: They've already done that? Oh, well if that's the case, all the better. :)
Hirokii Hyun: Spacialized rather
At0m0 Beerbaum: is windlight a bought technology or a licensed technology?
Angsty Rossini: I thought they were doing it all for the iPhone :)
Shinee Jewell: let me pass you some notes. He did a presentation at my sculpties workshop last week
At0m0 Beerbaum: where LL owns the patents
Hirokii Hyun: Spacial audio and video are great.
Orzga Aabye: that is interseting.
JayR Cela: Windliight was bought by LL
Chase Marellan: Hiro: but all the SAME media. I thought you meant different per prim. :(
Tateru Nino: Bought and released to open source.
Torley Linden: WindLight was bought, acquired from Windward Mark Interactive -- the personnel are all Lindens. Very smart, passionate guys I must add.
At0m0 Beerbaum: cool
Hirokii Hyun: Chase: True D:
Orzga Aabye: no one has done echo mapping .. like the sonic equi. of ray tracing
Daedalus Young: cool, I got a note of that presentation through the Sculpties group, but couldn't attend, unf...
Hirokii Hyun: First things first, I'd rather have Spacialization before we worry about Audio DSP effects.
JayR Cela: Windlight is also on the back burner for a while
Torley Linden: More WindLight history and info @ http://blog.secondlife.com/?s=windlight (scroll back some!)
Tayste Waydelich: A few things such as pitch alteration would allow for some neat mod-tracking type applications.
Beta Bates: Sorry, all.
Torley Linden: People of course have different priorities, it's intriguing to hear what gets asked for popularly, as well as less-obvious stuff that may be incredibly useful in the long run.
Hirokii Hyun: Id' really like an abbility for better parcel sound support for enviromental audio. It's irritating to have a rainstorm and yet you can only hear the sound in a small corner of your sim :|
Torley Linden: Tayste: I had so much fun with my Amiga and MOD files...
Torley Linden: I liked the sheer crispness of some of those dithered snare drums!
Hirokii Hyun: Particle collision or maybe... *gasp* Weather being added into SL itself would be REALLY damn nice :|
Beta Bates: Amiga <3
Torley Linden: Hirokii: Weather is a future planned phase of WindLight.
Orzga Aabye: i don't think the rendering of sounda s a spacial phenom was needed until now ..
Torley Linden: It's a natural consequence of better atmospheres.
Chase Marellan: Weather would be amazing.
Vivienne Graves: ThYou have to balance the environmental audio thing with the fact that maybe EVERYONE in the sim DOESN'T want to hear your rainstorm, though
Igel Hawks: It is nice to view, yah
Hirokii Hyun: Vivienne: When you're a sim owner, you want people to observe it a certain way.
Hirokii Hyun: I'm not talking about mainland or split up sims.
Lyndsey Forager: hello, im'm back - nasty whole laptop crashed
Hirokii Hyun: I'm talking massive parcels or just even smaller ones.
Torley Linden: One of the things that throws people off about Voice is, voices aren't processed to be in the same space (e.g., reverb)... so it can be disorienting to your senses to stand in a big forest but someone sounds like they're talking in an office (which they may well be).
Hirokii Hyun: It's hard to get it immersive.
Orzga Aabye: wb lyndsey
Torley Linden: Welcome back!
Hirokii Hyun: Torley: Already using voice in other games, I've been used to that. I think that's sort of unavoidable.
Igel Hawks: wb
Lyndsey Forager: thank you thank you
Orzga Aabye: yw yw
Beta Bates: and reverb on someone's voice who *is* in an office doesn't necessarily make it soud like a cathedral
Torley Linden: So there are so many angles things can be approached; as alluded to earlier, I like looking for stuff that we've been waiting for, for so long, and then got a good implementation of it. There's always more to go on.
At0m0 Beerbaum: oh if it hasnt been mentioned: make default hair flexi and realistic :P
Torley Linden: Beta: Exactly, tricky!
Aimee Congrejo: Yah Torley...I know what you mean about the weird background noise in Voice...
Hirokii Hyun: Does SL have any plans for graphical portals?
Torley Linden: I have been in meetings... and then I hear an ambulance go by.
At0m0 Beerbaum: will voice ever be opensourced?
Beta Bates: Can't just ship everyone $4000 worth of acoutic foam.
Torley Linden: Hirokii: For teleports?
Aimee Congrejo: Kinda interesting tho listening to people's background noise LOL
Beta Bates: :P
At0m0 Beerbaum: would be nice to have voice in linux
Hirokii Hyun: Teleports, or mirrors
Hirokii Hyun: Things like that.
Shinee Jewell: lol
Torley Linden: At0m0: I don't know about open-sourcing Voice.
Beta Bates: Voice - Now with free abfusors.
Tateru Nino bails.
At0m0 Beerbaum: also hurrah, 2.1 FPS on mt 7600GT
Torley Linden: "Hey, is that your cat!?!???"
Hirokii Hyun: I understand it could be a hit on the rendering engine, but still
Hirokii Hyun: As well as you know, maybe having teleport on touch for things like stargates. Having to walk through and then click the event horizion kills the coolness factor.
Orzga Aabye: my cat can type
Torley Linden: I like Stargate's effects a lot... we had prototype art for better transitions in teleports... so that one's still an open possibility.
At0m0 Beerbaum: as long as it doesnt replace traditional teleporting
Daedalus Young: my cat likes to sit half on the keyboard
Torley Linden: I find it amusing how many Stargate-like things are around Second Life, isn't there a whole network?
Tayste Waydelich: Hirokii: this might be left field, and a bit off-topic.. but Ihead Adam Zaiius was toying with the idea.
Hirokii Hyun: I know "immersion" may seem to some like an unimportant thing in SL.
Hirokii Hyun: but I think it's really important.
Torley Linden: I think in some cases, we need smoother transitions, like crossfades.
Hirokii Hyun: Yeah
Vivienne Graves: Well
Torley Linden: It certainly made a big difference in Final Fantasy games when going into a battle. :)
Lyndsey Forager: yeah - its a tp network with dhd's and everything
Orzga Aabye: my cat doesn't want voice.. then you wil know she is a dog
Vivienne Graves: that's one of the reasons I don't much plan to use voice
Vivienne Graves: it'
Torley Linden: Orzga: Ha ha ha!
Aimee Congrejo: Torley, yah, dozens of stargates to choose to TP thru
Torley Linden: Stargaaaate... it's a great big world, with a great big swirl, etc.
Hirokii Hyun: I'd love to have graphical portals where I could have a visual portal opened up. See my buds and just say "Sup" even though I might be ten parcels away.
Vivienne Graves: it kills immersion
Hirokii Hyun: Ala Prey / Portal
Daedalus Young: hehe
Torley Linden: Hirokii: Hahah! That's a great example.
Lyndsey Forager: lol, does the grid have to account for stellar shift
Torley Linden: Peek through a quantum window.
Hirokii Hyun: Yeah
Aimee Congrejo: Lyndsey, naw, but it has to account for lag ^^
Torley Linden: It'd be so freaky to see a dinosaur head pop out.
Lyndsey Forager: he he
Hirokii Hyun: I know LL couldn't pull it off AMAZINGLY smooth, but even just a little bit would be nice.
Hirokii Hyun: Haha, yeah.
Torley Linden: "OMG! CLOSE THE PORTAL!!!!"
Hirokii Hyun: Stargate irises would be actually useful :p
Lyndsey Forager: lol - dont step on that butterfly
Igel Hawks: Ohh nooooo!
Torley Linden: "TEMPORAL PARADOX!" (Oh, that reminds me of Raiden in Metal Gear Solid outtakes...)
Shinee Jewell: could it be set to appear on a media player?
Torley Linden: Yeah, shame that "A Sound of Thunder" the movie was not as good as I hoped it'd be.
Torley Linden: But I'm generally up for funz0r time travel romps.
Hirokii Hyun: Another thing torley.. just to ask out of curiousity.
Lyndsey Forager: have you been to see the simpsons film yet torley?
Torley Linden: Early on in SL I had a TARDIS and a Bill + Ted's phone booth.
Torley Linden: Not yet Lyndsey!
Torley Linden: How is it?
Beta Bates: EXCELLENT!
Daedalus Young: have you seen The time Phone?
Daedalus Young: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=370064918044316833&q=time+phone&total=11034&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
Lyndsey Forager: im going this weekend
Aimee Congrejo: LOL Iah I've seen the TARDIS kicking around SL ^^
Hirokii Hyun: I know that SL used to be an indirect teleport world, You had to use hubs and things like that.
Torley Linden: *makes note of time phone*
Hirokii Hyun: Portals would be wicked for actual Tardises.
Hirokii Hyun: Another good use for 'em
Hirokii Hyun: Anyway
At0m0 Beerbaum: hey now that would be a cool thing in SL
Daedalus Young: funny short movie :P
Torley Linden: Hurr hurrrrr yes, TELEHUBS!
Hirokii Hyun: One problem I have with SL is as a whole, how incoherent it is.
Torley Linden: OMG... that's when I launched protests...
Vivienne Graves: A lot of estate sims still use telehubs
At0m0 Beerbaum: but it would be really hard to pull off
Torley Linden: back in my younger days...
Hirokii Hyun: You see this on the mainlands still:
Torley Linden: I set mainland telehubs on fire.
Kamael Xevious: Telehubs... bad BAD mistake getting rid of those... destroyed the unlimited semiosis of Second Life.
At0m0 Beerbaum: a TARDIS
Hirokii Hyun: Cities are just shoved together.
At0m0 Beerbaum: one that's actually huge inside
Lyndsey Forager: lol, torley - were you a rebel?
Torley Linden: One of the only remaining telehubs is... in Waterhead. I didn't burn that one, lots of wood, too flammable.
Hirokii Hyun: Massive globs of malls, clubs, casinsos. Stuff like that.
Torley Linden: Rebel? Maybe, I was a wild youth! Hehe.
Hirokii Hyun: But really, torley... My big problem with SL Is this:
Lyndsey Forager: he he
Torley Linden: I remember those "scoop malls"...
Hirokii Hyun: There's no transit systems. There's no travelling.
Igel Hawks: Look at Torley, any questions? LOL
Orzga Aabye: what's a telehub?
Hirokii Hyun: I can't really walk through the world or drive around.
Torley Linden: You teleported to a telehub and then all of a sudden, flying a bit, a mall with a big roof CATCHES you.
Hirokii Hyun: It's teleport here, teleport this
Vivienne Graves: Hirokii: Coherence and 'your world, your imagination' don't go hand in hand
Warren Flanagan: lol sorry
Daedalus Young: there are some travel systems
At0m0 Beerbaum: too laggy to drive in game
Torley Linden: Some people like to fly and explore.
Daedalus Young: there are "Metro" carriages hovering over Northern continent roads
Torley Linden: I do on occasion. But often I need shortcuts.
Kamael Xevious: Since when, Vivienne?
Hirokii Hyun: Instant transportation is important, I agree
Orzga Aabye: a teleport problem is how to control congession
Torley Linden: Intriguing to see what sorts of vehicular activity has come about.
Vivienne Graves: if someonhe wants to build a futiristic Death Spire next to a gothic cathedral, on the mainland, at least, they can
Hirokii Hyun: It's just I think we should have things for people like me who love to just roaming about.
Orzga Aabye: there are no hints about how many peopoe at destination
Hirokii Hyun: One problem in SL, I get so bored so fast simply because of one thing. I run out of keywords to find cool stuff.
Torley Linden: I laugh so much at things that look as if they come out of a prog rock 70s album cover art.
Orzga Aabye: in rl we'd crush each other ...
Torley Linden: I dig that stuff.
Hirokii Hyun: Whereas with a train, if I see something really cool, I just hop off!
Shinee Jewell: you could use the map
Torley Linden: I don't use Search very much, I often visit blogs or hear about cool places in other ways (please feel free to drop landmarks on me). :)
Hirokii Hyun: The map isn't very detailed, it's not the same as seeing some hilarious looking building or ad and hopping otu to see what it's about
Hirokii Hyun: There's no real sense of adventure. :|
Aimee Congrejo: Yah...a Stumbleupon.com (I think that's the site) for SL wouldd be great!
Orzga Aabye: you break many bones hirokii?
Igel Hawks: LOL
Shinee Jewell: true... but it is a little hint
Kamael Xevious: exactly, Hirokii... eliminating telehubs eliminated travel... and that eliminated inspiration.
Lyndsey Forager: i think sl itself can be boring - its the connections you make that make the world exciting
Vivienne Graves: populated places on the map are usually full of camping zombies
Hirokii Hyun: Kamael: Yup!
Torley Linden: I haven't used StumbleUpon.com but I *LOVE* serendipitous discovery.
Igel Hawks: You will be overcrwded with LMs Torley
Orzga Aabye: jmping off moving trains lol?
Hirokii Hyun: Yeah
Hirokii Hyun: THat's another thing
Torley Linden: People often make the difference.
Hirokii Hyun: I HATE CAMPING ZONES so much.
Hirokii Hyun: They KILL this game.
Torley Linden: Igel: I already am, and I hope for more!
Vivienne Graves: looking at snapshots on SLniverse and following the SLURLs is a good way to find new places, I've found
Hirokii Hyun: Just a bunch of zombies idling on pads.
Angsty Rossini: I explore by clicking onthe map and TP there, then just fly aroung....
Hirokii Hyun: It's just... Why bother?
Torley Linden: Yeah, like Vivienne said, it's very visual to go through a snapshot site... that's why I keep a photostream of my inworld adventures.
Hirokii Hyun: Any populated area with camping is usually just as desolate as a newborn, unpopulated mainland sim.
Jessica Holyoke: Without camping, what would you suggest for new players to do to get into the economy?
Torley Linden: http://www.flickr.com/photos/torley/ for anyone who missed it earlier.
Aimee Congrejo: Yah Hirokii...camping costs more in electricity to keep yer compy on than to just buy Lindens
Shinee Jewell: thx
Hirokii Hyun: Hippy pay is a great way for newbies to get involved
Hirokii Hyun: And way more effective.
Vivienne Graves: Sure, great idea
Torley Linden: There are always opportunities. Being observant is key. To this day, there's a lack of good documentation for a lot of stuff. I earned early L$ by proof-reading notecards and writing product manuals.
Orzga Aabye: torley, where is torley solos #1 .. found 2 and 3 ..
Igel Hawks: Dont go to camping areas if you dont like it, it's easy
Hirokii Hyun: As well as jobs around out there for people like DJs, dancers, stuff like that.
Orzga Aabye: sorry to non-sec into it ..
Vivienne Graves: Sell your personal information for less than a buck
Hirokii Hyun: Igel: Not when they infest nearly every inch of SL these days.
Daedalus Young: solo piano 4 is my fave
Igel Hawks: That's true, yeah
Lyndsey Forager: did you like iwoot torley - i saw you snapped ceeqs robosapian
Hirokii Hyun: Viviene: As opposed to wasting your priceless time for less than 10 cents?
Orzga Aabye: then there's even more i don't find yet
Orzga Aabye: ..
Torley Linden: People love hearing about useful tips -- there are great Resident blogs that emphasize this. Sharing your adventures can be a useful adjunct to a related business you've started... e.g., blogging about hair products and having a hair store.
Vivienne Graves: I hate Hippie Pay more than camping, personally
Chase Marellan: Torley: maybe that's what SL needs: more "real" jobs for newbies. :)
Torley Linden: Yes, IWOOT was lots of fun!
Torley Linden: Patience is important but can't be given by a computer.
Torley Linden: Hehehe.
Torley Linden: Glad you like the piano recordings...
Torley Linden: Orzga if you google search my site... lemme see...
Daedalus Young: somebody once suggested LL could hire people to walk the grid and clean up mess from Gov Linden Land
Hirokii Hyun: My point is... I'd just like to see some kind of transit around. I don't know.
Hirokii Hyun: I like the OLD mainland where you have roads
Kamael Xevious: I still say SL needs a public works program. I know Robin was wanting to do one, but it seems to have evaporated.
Hirokii Hyun: Trains
Hirokii Hyun: Busses
Orzga Aabye: i 'll handle it... now i know 1 and 4 i have to find .. thanks
Hirokii Hyun: Things like that.
Igel Hawks: Trains are great
Vivienne Graves: you should go to Caledon and look at the train system there
Igel Hawks: I love the Railroads
Hirokii Hyun: It would be just nice to have some public land running through the continents to let people travel.
Vivienne Graves: goes through...what, 11 sims, I think
Torley Linden: Thanks for listening Orzga!
Lyndsey Forager: there are many vehicals in sk
Chase Marellan: Kamael: Hear hear!
Orzga Aabye: are there parks (publically owned) in sl? i don't think so ..
Chase Marellan: Hiro: Have you seen the Linden Road?
Daedalus Young: there are train tracks over the Northern and a bit Southern continent, but they're often broken: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-316
Hirokii Hyun: Lyndsey: And when you use them... you usually hit someone's Unicorn rainbow teaparty palace which is "GROUP ACCESS ONLY"
Orzga Aabye: hey where are yuz guyz pub spiritlol
Torley Linden: Now that's interesting, about cleanups... our Concierge & Land Team has been so busy with things like filling island orders... but I do know we have the ability to batch-set parcels with given settings.
Torley Linden: We could set mass Governor Linden-owned parcels to have autoreturn... but at the same time, we often find there's Linden stuff that isn't set correctly. :\
Hirokii Hyun: And sim transitioning kills any kind of flight these days.
Kamael Xevious: the lack of open spaces and public parks is something I've been complaining aobut for going on 4 years, Orzga... you see how much progress I've made.
JayR Cela: a public transit system via train would be great / if it were not for the cross simm border problems SL still seems to be having
Torley Linden: So that requires visual inspection right there.
Hirokii Hyun: If you even manage to get a good voyage going. Bam, you crash into an access only parcel anyway.
Hirokii Hyun: Really irritating.
Torley Linden: Whatever happened to Higbee Protagonist? He used to run a big parks guide...
Orzga Aabye: strange .. just like rl .. lol
Vivienne Graves: Sim transitioning always HAS killed any kind of vehicular movement
Igel Hawks: Or the elevated train on Germania Prime?
Vivienne Graves: because your avatar data and attachment data etc are physically moving from one machine to another
Torley Linden: The closest to a "publically owned" park may be De Haro, a very old region. Aside from that, new regions before they're set for sale -- ahhhh terrain expanse!
Vivienne Graves: there's server lag, and latency
Kamael Xevious: That's not true, Vivienne.
Kamael Xevious: That's absolutely not true.
Hirokii Hyun: Speaking of which Torley... I do have a question.
Bart Heart: Try Memorial Park
JayR Cela: evan the IBM islands got rid of their train because people kept loosing there Hair and shoes's when riding their train around their islands
Kamael Xevious: There was a time when it was quite smooth.
Hirokii Hyun: We really need to face the facts here: Second life is a Feudal society. We don't have any rights anywhere on any private sim because it's just that, Private.
Lyndsey Forager: you signed up to it!
Hirokii Hyun: No freedom of speech, nothing like that, And while yes that's all fine and dandy, things like Banlink become a threat to expression.
Hirokii Hyun: Let me finish.
Vivienne Graves: When there was one sim per server instead of four, and concurrency was 10-k instead of 40k, maybe
Aimee Congrejo: Yah...seems that ever since the June 29th rolling restart I lose my C:SI blades and HUD every time I cross a sim border
Hirokii Hyun: My point is, People say Banlink is a self-regulating system. Yet it's hard to argue a way to clean your reputation when you're a newbie and you're going up against a 3 year old account who runs estates
Hirokii Hyun: Most people won't believe you and just shrug you off.
Orzga Aabye: the browth must be something to kep up w/ in terms fo cycles
Hirokii Hyun: So if one sim or group gets centralized control of banlink because everyone trusts them
Kamael Xevious: Actually, it was before they changed the way sim transitions were handled... but yes, before your time.
Hirokii Hyun: Ine ssance they have the power to silence anyone they don't like.
Torley Linden: I like empirical cases beyond theory... has anyone actually met a new account so adversely affected by BanLink, and who talked to the creators about it?
Hirokii Hyun: People may be banning people they'd like without even knowing it.
Orzga Aabye: ah... the pains fo digital commerce ...
Torley Linden: Having some actual examples would of course be useful.
Hirokii Hyun: Banlink reminds me of communisim. It's great on paper, but the problem is when you have real people in it.
Hirokii Hyun: Yiffy Yifu is one I can think of offhand
Jessica Holyoke: I haven't seen banlink at work yet, although I did write an article not so long ago about people discriminating against others based on group membership
Hirokii Hyun: Angel fluffy had her entered in Banlink
Hirokii Hyun: And she got banned from an asston of SL.
Orzga Aabye: it's all great on paper .. there's no magic system ..
Hirokii Hyun: Without any rational reason from Angel fluffy.
Hirokii Hyun: There's no magic system, but we can learn from our mistakes and make more flexible systems.
Hirokii Hyun: There is always a way to adapt.
Chase Marellan: Hiro: And did she contact Banlink about it?
Orzga Aabye: the details the balance therein is the wisdom
Torley Linden: There's the "two sides of every story" adage of course.
Hirokii Hyun: It's kind of hard to do that; Angel fluffy is good friends with the banlink high ups and may be one as far as I recall.
Torley Linden: It's interesting seeing these Resident-created systems... because at the same time, someone who disagrees with such a system doesn't have to use it. If they are vociferously against what they see as unjustified bannings.
Orzga Aabye: and yes it's pretty out there, in here, right now
Vivienne Graves: well, since Banlink is something that's used by land and sim owners and has nothing whatever to do wih LL officially, I don't know that there's any point to bringing it up here
Chase Marellan: Viv: Yes, thank you.
Hirokii Hyun: It's just, SL has always been advertized as a place of free creative expression. If that's not the case, even just because of third party circumstances, How does that work?
Hirokii Hyun: Things like broadly offensive especially. Where do you draw the line?
Multi Chair Crate v1.0.42 (TORLEY MOD) whispers: Maximum number of chairs reached, please rez another Multi Chair table.
Orzga Aabye: LL has had a real time undersanding when to intervene, when to let things develop
Torley Linden: Landowners are free to express who they want to ban on t heir land, conversely.
Vivienne Graves: You'd have to take that up with the landowners who use banlink
Hirokii Hyun: Are we a free second life, or a mob ruled second life? Are we going to have rights, or is it going to become a cookie cutter world?
Vivienne Graves: I suppose
Warren Flanagan: ah the chairality is at max
Aimee Congrejo: Yes, but freedom unfortunately gives people the ability to squash other's freedoms ^^
Kamael Xevious: Really? Can I ban a Linden and have it stick?
Hirokii Hyun: Places like America IRL existed for a reason.
Torley Linden: The good news is... as Second Life grows so much, there'll be more and more places to visit and feel welcome at.
Torley Linden: Some interests which didn't even exist in Second Life months ago, now have growing subcultures.
Torley Linden: We've seen the rise and fall, and in some cases, re-rise of certain trends.
Jessica Holyoke: what re-rise did you notice Torley?
Orzga Aabye: w.r.t. this, the viewer is open source? that will do things
Vivienne Graves: therein lies the problem, though...since people can 'buy' 'land' (really a long-term lease of server space), they have the right to ban anyone they want to from their land
Torley Linden: So often, I've personally seen that someone who feels they're in an unjust situation hasn't taken the time to communicate with the party they disagree with. I understand how heated emotions can hamper that.
Hirokii Hyun: It's really not that I have a problem with Banlink, I have a problem with the very dangerous possibility of it being abused and then not being fixed.
Kamael Xevious: :::thud:::
Igel Hawks: Sorry lexxie
Vivienne Graves: same as any website can blacklist an IP address or domain and denyu access
Vivienne Graves: same principle
Kamael Xevious: emminent domain?
Lyndsey Forager: office hours are usually so much fun - i hate the tense atmosphere
Hirokii Hyun: call me a tin foiled had paranoid type person, but I just don't like how things might be screwed up in the future in a really bad situation.
Orzga Aabye: :-(
Torley Linden: Jessica: Flexiprims bringing new life, a second life, one might say, to prim skirts, and the many who wear and enjoy and discuss and make 'em. :)
Chase Marellan: Lyndsey: Yes. Anybody gota pleasant topic to talk about?
Hirokii Hyun: I'm about to ditch anyhow. I'm really tired.
Hirokii Hyun: Thanks for answering my questions, Torley.
Vivienne Graves: So, who read the Harry Potter novel and what did you think?
Torley Linden: You're welcome. :)
Orzga Aabye: i still want to know about the refelctions in shiny floors .//
Jessica Holyoke: Torley: when did prim skirts go away?
Hirokii Hyun: I appologize if I got a bit edgy. I'm pretty tired.
Daedalus Young: a pleasant topic is the Hidden Starax exhibition at Oyster Bay :)
Orzga Aabye: i was right about Snape ladee dah
Hirokii Hyun: If I came off that way, It wasn't intended.
Torley Linden: Jessica: For the time in late 2004-2005 when I was inquiring about them...
Vivienne Graves: hehe
Vivienne Graves: me too
Torley Linden: I heard surprisingly disgusted reactions.
Chase Marellan: No spoilers, PLEASE!
Kamael Xevious: I wasn't, but I WAS right about JK Rowling.
Hirokii Hyun: Later.
Orzga Aabye: :-) iv
Torley Linden: And then someone taught me about the history...
Jessica Holyoke: torley: ah ok, thanks
Torley Linden: of the likes of Misnomer Jones (the very first to create a prim skirt).
Torley Linden: Ahhh Harry Potter.
Torley Linden: I haven't read Deathly Hallows, but I really admire JK Rowling.
Lyndsey Forager: im only on chapter 10 of he new book - savouring every page
Orzga Aabye: Misnomer Jones is the inventor (alleg) of teh Prim Skirt!! what a factoid!!
Torley Linden: There's a good example of someone who has crafted such an endearing modern mythos, and struggled through much adversity to succeed, and touch so many people's lives.
Shinee Jewell: hard to find time to read it now I'm on SL all the time
Torley Linden: I love factoids, and sharing knowledge.
Torley Linden: Practical tips to help make your Second Life better. :)
Kamael Xevious: Modern Mythos? yeee.
Orzga Aabye: me 2
Torley Linden: For anyone who hasn't seen it yet either, http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/07/26/10-debug-options-you-should-know-about/ :D
Vivienne Graves: I dunno much about the modern mythos thing; the books were kind of fun, but she's no William Burroughs, or even Stephen King
Shinee Jewell: yes I read that Torley thx
Aimee Congrejo: Yah Torley I live in the debug menu LOL
Torley Linden: Now, Stephen King is my #1 fave author.
Torley Linden: Thanks for reading!
Aimee Congrejo: I'm such a geek ^^
Torley Linden: Dark Tower and how it interconnects with many other books is AMAZING.
Torley Linden: I like King's archetype of an "everyperson who finds themself in a bad, bad place".
Lyndsey Forager: when is bridie s office hours?
Torley Linden: Bridie's are on Wednesday @ 3 PM PDT.
Shinee Jewell: King's writing sometimes seems to lose momentum or enthusiasm as the story gets closer to the end
Orzga Aabye: well it's hard to talk about Potter w/o giving away anything
Torley Linden: Bridie is my collaborator in managing WindLight, critical bugs, and a number of other things.
Lyndsey Forager: thanks torley
Torley Linden: Shinee: Sometimes I find that, like in Cell.
Kamael Xevious: The masters get to be masters by producing a LOT of stuff... some of which can't help but be crap. Shakespeare went through the same thing...
Chase Marellan: :)
Torley Linden: Neal Stephenson is another reputed to have "out of steam" endings... but he says he wrote them just as he wanted to.
Kamael Xevious: Read Titus Andronicus if you doubt me.
Vivienne Graves: I was a LITTLE disappointed with the last Dark Tower book...but in a way, it was the perfect ending, too
Torley Linden: Kam: Amazingly true.
Torley Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Office_Hours
Shinee Jewell: :)
Aimee Congrejo: Torley...Neal Stephenson...the Shockwave Rider author?
Torley Linden: ^ All Lindens having office hours, and if you know someone who doesn't, tell 'em to add themselves. :)
Aimee Congrejo: Do I have the right guy?
Vivienne Graves: Snow Crash
Vivienne Graves: And THe Diamond Age
Aimee Congrejo: Aha
Vivienne Graves: And Cryptonomicon
Aimee Congrejo: Thankies
Kamael Xevious: And Cryptonomicon.
Torley Linden: Diamond Age is my fave book of all time. Thus far.
Kamael Xevious: But I much prefer Gibson.
Torley Linden: I loved how it mixed a sort of playful fantasy with the post-cyberpunk leanings.
Torley Linden: I read Neuromancer but I find Gibson's style drier. He's undoubtedly a great though.
Vivienne Graves: Stephenson reminds me a bit of THomas Pynchon, actually
Torley Linden: What's that line about the sky being turned to the channel of a dead television, or something?
Kamael Xevious: It is drier... but I like that :D
Chase Marellan: Very dry, but good grief if we're not living his world...
Igel Hawks: Be back on the next time bye (RL is calling)
Torley Linden: Aimee: What's interesting is Shockwave Rider is by John Brunner, also an important cyberpunk text.
Chase Marellan: By Igel!
Torley Linden: What's relevant to me about Shockwave Rider is that it's based on Tofflerian ideas from the book Future Shock. I love that book.
Vivienne Graves: bye, Igel
Aimee Congrejo: Yah Torley...I just get my authors mixed up ^^
Torley Linden: =)
Torley Linden: Bye Igel!
Daedalus Young: is that The Sky was the Color of Television, Tuned to a Dead Channel?
Torley Linden: Thanks for coming!
Daedalus Young: Google says
Igel Hawks: Will be back at 2 PM
Torley Linden: Daedalus: Yeah, yours sounds closer than what I cobbled out.
Orzga Aabye: google is like that guy in snow crash .. collecting data
Torley Linden: Hahaha.
Torley Linden: Data junkies!
Torley Linden: Hard drives are getting so cheap.
Orzga Aabye: yeah . it was his job i think?
Torley Linden: Warren, that's a great coat, who made that?
Torley Linden: It's so awesome to have so many diverse avatars here.
Warren Flanagan: hmm let's see
Daedalus Young: you could use a Google backend for SL internal Search
Warren Flanagan: i searched for trenchcoat
Torley Linden: Daedalus: That seems like such a clear way to go, eh?
Warren Flanagan: it was one of the few links
Bart Heart: Tonk Tomcat
Daedalus Young: that would be cool
Shinee Jewell: Google would still need to access the db
Bart Heart: made his coat
Warren Flanagan: tonk tomcat appears to have made it
Torley Linden: Ah, cool, thanks Warren.
Warren Flanagan: np it's a cool look
Torley Linden: I get very curious about your fave places and things inworld... broadly speaking... always feel free to send me landmarks. =o)
Damani Roadster 0.50 - watermelon: You are not the owner...
Damani Roadster 0.50 - watermelon: You are not the owner...
Chase Marellan: Torley: do you have a list of your favorite places?
Torley Linden: Sorry you can't ride that car... it's perma-parked t here or something.
Aimee Congrejo: Torley...I always feel odd sending IMs or stuff to "famous" people in game...LOL
Chase Marellan: I'm always looking for places to show people who are new.
Torley Linden: Chase, I do over time... I usually blog about them...
Torley Linden: Awww Aimee, how comes?
Torley Linden: http://torley.com/category/inworld-exploring <-- stuff I like, not ALL of it but some.
Aimee Congrejo: Well...cuz they must already get so many IMs...I don't like being an anklebiter
Shinee Jewell: the Pedestal Syndrome
Torley Linden: I know Natalia Zelmanov also has a great list, Chase. http://slnatalia.blogspot.com/2006/11/siteseeing-and-exploring.html
Daedalus Young: I often browse your flickr pages, looking for cool places
Torley Linden: Sadly I get too many IMs to keep up and lose many IMs in the midst of my work, so I prefer email, but always nice to see you on Issue Tracker (PJIRA), Aimee.
Chase Marellan: That's what I'm looking for, thanks. :)
Torley Linden: You're welcome Chase!
Torley Linden: I like visuals, they help communicate what a place... actually is.
Chase Marellan: I'll take LM donations too, if anybody wants to send them. :)
Aimee Congrejo: ^^ Thankies Torley...
Torley Linden: Hehehe.
Torley Linden: Chase, have you already been to Greenies?
Torley Linden: Some Lindens went on a field trip there the other day.
Chase Marellan: No, I haven't
Torley Linden: Greenies Home Rezzable , surprise yourself.
Torley Linden: Hee hee.
Torley Linden: That's the name of the region.
Vivienne Graves: Gorgeous build
Chase Marellan: Will do, thanks!
Shinee Jewell: or the crooked house
Vivienne Graves: I went there last weekend
Torley Linden: I always like when someone can take an interest of theirs they might have not explored in years, and bring it inworld...
Daedalus Young: some people say it's made by Starax in disguise
Torley Linden: Crooked house is a lot of fun!
Vivienne Graves: stunning...possibly one of the best things I've seen in SL
Torley Linden: Ahhh art in our digital realm. :)
Chase Marellan: Now you're really making me curious. :)
Torley Linden: I like a lot of the odd stops...
Chase Marellan: I'll definitely head over after this. :)
Torley Linden: :D
Torley Linden: Hope you have fun there.
Torley Linden: I like things that play with your senses... optical illusions.
Chase Marellan: I'm sure I will. :)
Vivienne Graves: I'm surprised we haven't seen more Lovecraft-inspired builds
Orzga Aabye: will clouds be rezzable? in teh furutree
Vivienne Graves: subtly wrong angl;es and all of that
Daedalus Young: ah, on playing with senses, I started making 3D Photos in SL
Torley Linden: Hehehe.
Torley Linden: Rezzable clouds? I hope we get 3D clouds.
Torley Linden: (Nimble tech as part of WindLight...)
Vivienne Graves: Prim clouds seem kind of tricky though
Orzga Aabye: windlight does that .. righ?
Chase Marellan: Daedalus: Now THAT's a cool idea!
Daedalus Young: thanks
Torley Linden: First-round WindLight clouds aren't 3D, but hopefully future ones will be.
Tayste Waydelich: Volumetric prims would be so awesome.
Vivienne Graves: Considering that they'd count toward parcel or sim prim allotment
Torley Linden: 3D photos? Where they be at? :D
Torley Linden is curious to seee.
Daedalus Young: it's cool to see an SL image become true 3D
Shinee Jewell: some friend of mine have some for ale too
Daedalus Young: Ah, I still have them on my harddrive only
Shinee Jewell: *sale
Torley Linden: Ahh.
Kamael Xevious: Are those the ones like the Van Gogh? Cos that one effin' RAWKED.
Torley Linden: I like stereograms and anaglyphs and stuff.
Torley Linden: RAWKED!
Torley Linden: :D
Torley Linden: Oh my... I'd like to warmly thank each and all of you for being here with me at my Office Hour. I've got to go... but I will be back here at 2 PM PDT.
Aimee Congrejo: Torley...I don't want to hijack yer office hours, but I finally built my first SL object...a Katanakake for Jane's memorial...care to see? ^^
Torley Linden: Oh oh please do show!
Torley Linden: Do we have enough prims here?
Bau Ur: Alas! I just rrived. i will see you at 2.
Shinee Jewell: I'll send the lm
Shinee Jewell: gotta find it
Aimee Congrejo: Oooh...can't rez...region is full
Daedalus Young: 12 prims
Torley Linden: Ack sorry. :\ In the future I should rotate some stuff out with sculpties so they're less prims.
Orzga Aabye: wow ..
Daedalus Young: there's a cube underneath the build though
Daedalus Young: takes up one prim
Daedalus Young: doesn't appear to do anything
Torley Linden: Ahh stray cube. *deletes*
Torley Linden: That was for QA testing.
Daedalus Young: ah I see
Aimee Congrejo: NO worries...I'll send you a pic...
Aimee Congrejo: ^^
Torley Linden: Kk, thanx a lot.
Torley Linden: Bye for now... and t'care all!
Daedalus Young: bye Torley
Aimee Congrejo: Torley...a pleasure! Seeyas!
Orzga Aabye: aimee can you send an LM to me .. to see?
Vivienne Graves: bye, TOrley
Harleen Gretzky: bye Torley
Melanie774 Kidd: bye ^_^
Shinee Jewell: vendr far right I think
Shinee Jewell: thx Trley
Orzga Aabye: bye Torley .. always a big adventure ..
Torley Linden: *waves and smiles* =^_^=