User:Zero Linden/Office Hours/2008 Apr 08

Zero Linden: Full house = sign of success!

Zha Ewry: Dead laptop on its way to be fixed. I want my FPS back

Gareth Ellison: down to business ladies and gentlemen?

Lalinda Lovell: and puppies

Jennifer Gallindo: hehe

Saijanai Kuhn: full house = spammariffic avatar

Gareth Ellison throws an orange at zero

Lalinda Lovell: sai bad spammer

Mastorian Kingsford: couch

Morgaine Dinova: Zero: "full house" == "hit scalability limit" :-))

Zero Linden: Well all - welcome to my "scalability limit" office hours

Morgaine Dinova: Hehe

Gypsy Paz: lol

Tao Takashi: Hi

Gareth Ellison: if the sim was coded in python with live REPL zero could dynamically turn off server-side features to

decrease lag ;)

ShiftyGuy Trenchcoat: seriously

Rex Cronon: zero might need to put his office at corner of 4 sims:)

Mastorian Kingsford: lmao

Tao Takashi: or simply use IRC ;-)

Zero Linden: What? and loose our intimate little chats?

Zero Linden: Never!

Gareth Ellison: IRC is actually sane

Kiefer Schuttelanz: IRCap

Gareth Ellison: or at least a bridge

Kiefer Schuttelanz: xD

Lalinda Lovell: use irc and we all save money

Gareth Ellison: i'd go for a bridge

ShiftyGuy Trenchcoat: seriously

ShiftyGuy Trenchcoat: I don't need to buy shirts on IRC

Gareth Ellison: scrap SL and this whole metaverse thing, let's just all go to IRC

Zha Ewry: Dog food, eating of same

Tao Takashi: lets make IRC interoperable instead!

Lalinda Lovell: irc.secondlife.net

Zero Linden: Wow - You're right - IRC is the way!

Rookiie Roux: hehe

Gareth Ellison puts on his ninja robe and cloak

ShiftyGuy Trenchcoat: we need irc with avatars

Gareth Ellison: hey, how about 3D avatars?

Trex Yao: .. Lalinda Lovell: sorry (TM)

Gareth Ellison: in a 3D world?

Gareth Ellison: with scripts

ShiftyGuy Trenchcoat: oh yeah!

ShiftyGuy Trenchcoat: that too!

Tao Takashi: we might invent some way to create objects in IRC

Rex Cronon: such a novel idea:)

Gareth Ellison: hey, split it up into parcels of land

Zero Linden: And the spec is already written!

Gareth Ellison: across servers

Gareth Ellison: wow!

Zero Linden: Okay----

Saijanai Kuhn: And lag. Dont' forget the lag

Gareth Ellison: we can call it second reality

ShiftyGuy Trenchcoat: except there would be way more cool than sl

Gareth Ellison: ok, onto business

Gareth Ellison: zero - agenda

Zero Linden: Yes - agenda

Lalinda Lovell: and we can all see eachs ip and dos each other

Lalinda Lovell: jk

Zero Linden: so far no one has made use of my spiffy agenda section on the Wiki

Morgaine Dinova: Ah yeah, the lag must be part of the spec, or it wouldn't be authentic

Saijanai Kuhn: had two issues pop up in dicussion. Mine and everyone else's

Gareth Ellison: how about we all throw up what was said in AWGroupies meeting?

Lalinda Lovell: not all of you please

Zero Linden: So - I have one item - a secretary

Lalinda Lovell: it lasted 9 hours didnt it

Saijanai Kuhn: ?

Lalinda Lovell: you want a secretary zero?

Lalinda Lovell: i have a pen

ShiftyGuy Trenchcoat: wow

ShiftyGuy Trenchcoat: so few people on voice

Saijanai Kuhn: for handling SLGOGP?

Gareth Ellison: no transcripts on voice

Tao Takashi still wants a better name and URL :)

ShiftyGuy Trenchcoat: right

Zero Linden: Well, let's not throw up... present? What is the topic?

Rex Cronon: ip?

Lalinda Lovell: slgogp is the worst, whatever is it change it

Morgaine Dinova: Zero: one thing that came up in AW Groupies meeting was to use a bundle of TCP streams instead of just one

held open by 1.1. That could improve various thinks, and allow prioritization too.

Gareth Ellison: at AWG we discussed event queues

Gareth Ellison: yeah, i mentioned the case of various exploding cute animals

Tao Takashi: we mostly discussed IBM ;-)

Gareth Ellison: i.e important events

Zero Linden: okay, do we need IBM on the agenda here?

Saijanai Kuhn didn't want to hear about the bunnies

Tao Takashi: not for me

Jennifer Gallindo: IBM would be good Morgaine Dinova: No more bunnies pls

Jennifer Gallindo: hehe

Gareth Ellison: important events not getting bogged down in event queues and multiple such event queus to compensate

Gypsy Paz: yeah, I'd like to hear more about IBM

Gareth Ellison: no more bunnies

Gareth Ellison: i promise

Zero Linden: I've got so far: Secretary, Event Queue/Bundles of TCP

Saijanai Kuhn: Zha covered IBM but not everyone was at the Groupies meeting

Saijanai Kuhn: login needs three parts not two

Tao Takashi: Zha should blog about it ;-)

Zero Linden: Okay, well, I'll grant IBM a few minutes

Gareth Ellison: possibility of edge touching sims, opensim mods with the IBM subgrid

Dahlia Trimble: are there transcripts for awg?

Zero Linden: Sai? Okay, I'll add that

Zha Ewry: On my list, Tao

Morgaine Dinova: Ah yeah, Sai's issue with login flexibility for interop

Gareth Ellison: but i think that was dismissed somewhat

Saijanai Kuhn: Will be Dahlia

Tao Takashi: cool :)

Gareth Ellison: ah yeah - login steps

Tao Takashi: where is your blog anyway?

Zha Ewry: Need to talk to PR and oddly, some lindens about that

Zero Linden: SO - Going once: Secretary, TCP bundles, Event Queue, IBM, Login in 3 Acts

Zero Linden: Going twice

Gareth Ellison: that seems to sum it up

Zero Linden: GOing three times......

Dahlia Trimble: teleporting to other grids :)

Gareth Ellison: oh, and bunnies, kittens and evil dogs

Gareth Ellison: sorry

Tao Takashi: and marketing ;-)

Gareth Ellison refrains

Saijanai Kuhn covers ears

Zero Linden: ..... SOLD! to the tall thin avatar on the wall....

Jennifer Gallindo: I agree, multigrid TP

Morgaine Dinova: Heh

Trex Yao: including not ll grinds?

Gareth Ellison: ok, zero - tell us about the secretary......

Trex Yao: grinds*

Trex Yao: grids*

Trex Yao: argg

Dahlia Trimble: before someone else invents it first

Saijanai Kuhn grinds evilly

Zero Linden: Okay - my issue is quick: I'd like this group to have not just a transcript posted, but a consices summary of

what was discussed and top high levelpoints made

Zha Ewry nods

ShiftyGuy Trenchcoat: I still say you need to ban prokofy before you try and fix sl.

Zero Linden: I'm thinking about ten or so lines per session

Lalinda Lovell: i can do that

Mick Schonberg: hi everyone

Lalinda Lovell: i work for IBM

Lalinda Lovell: not

Gareth Ellison: that is a VERY good idea

Gareth Ellison: the transcripts tend to be long and full of padding

Lalinda Lovell: like clown pants

Gareth Ellison: throw it in with the agenda

Rex Cronon: i don't think prokofy will write any code, so why u need to ban?

Saijanai Kuhn: bad jokes about exploding non-avi furry creatures

Zero Linden: What I'd like is for folks interested to take a stab at it this week and next and we'll see what works best

Gareth Ellison: and show the outcome of each agenda point

Lalinda Lovell: best man wins, good idea

Zero Linden: Or woman, or furry, or evil robot, or....

Colton Linden: or puppet

Mick Schonberg: Hey!

Saijanai Kuhn: so, Lalinda volunteers for secretary?

Gareth Ellison: that reminds me, i didn't get round to knocking out my l33t code for the SLGOGP auto-generated

code..........

Lalinda Lovell: yes i do

Zero Linden: So - if you want to try your hand at it - just do it and stick the summary somewher off the office hours pages

Saijanai Kuhn: all opposed?

Zero Linden: Thanks

Saijanai Kuhn: They ayes have it

Lalinda Lovell: starting with this meeting right?

Morgaine Dinova: Zero: easy enough to do in wiki format. Someone can segment the discussion page into topics, and then each

party that led the topic can pad it out.

Zero Linden: No time like the present

Lalinda Lovell: ok

Zero Linden: remember, goal is short, clear

Zero Linden: Okay - onward

Zero Linden: Bundles of TCP -

Zero Linden: Did I hear BEEP?

Gareth Ellison: specifically splitting off priority messages if needed

Zero Linden: Or were we just talking about keeping more than one event queu open?

Saijanai Kuhn: well, the wrry was about EventQueueGet handlign both agent update packets and massive textures

Gareth Ellison: in case main event queue gets bogged down

Gareth Ellison: ah yeah, links to large events

Gareth Ellison: event queue has this:

Gareth Ellison: {'event':'myevent','body':{blablabla}}

Gareth Ellison: or

Gareth Ellison: {'event':'myevent',link:' https://mysim/events/blabla '}

Gareth Ellison: or some other format, mini format details can be decided on later

Morgaine Dinova: Zero: well the subjects stemmed from noting that different types of downstream traffic really required

different urgency and had different requirements.

Zero Linden: as in { 'event':'mybigpayloadevent', link: ' https://mysim/come-and-get-it-when-you-are-ready/.... ' }

Saijanai Kuhn: specifically if large numbers of textures get interwoven with fast update events

Gareth Ellison: yeah, we need some to arrive out of band basically

Morgaine Dinova: But it seemed a good approach in general --- everything down one pipe doesn't seem the right approach.

Gareth Ellison: that's a good one zero :)

Zha Ewry nods

Gareth Ellison: so, 2 points really

Gareth Ellison: out of band events that need higher priority

Gareth Ellison: and big events

Gareth Ellison: the latter using links

Zero Linden: Right - so the HTTP Texture design does this - the message contins the CAP to the texture, the texture isn't

pushed down the event queue

Gareth Ellison: exactly

Zha Ewry: Also, the absent teraveasu, was very concerned about.. http get speed, vs. udp tecxture load

Zero Linden: perhaps we should set guidlines on maximum data that should be presented viat hte event queue

Zero Linden: then the question is

Gareth Ellison: though one could imagine big piles of object updates could go there too

Saijanai Kuhn: alright, that was my main concern. And its flexable

Gareth Ellison: you read my mind zero :)

Zero Linden: do we need to do this generically (defined the link: option) or do we leave it for each protocol to descide

Zero Linden: ?

Trex Yao: are you talking about a explorer?

Gareth Ellison: if event_size>N use_link

Gareth Ellison: where N is a maximum size per event

Zero Linden: Right

Zero Linden: I think we are all ont he same wavelength

Gareth Ellison: yay

Saijanai Kuhn: could even be settable at runtime

Morgaine Dinova: Zero: why set any maximum? I don't see how that fall out of anything

Nite Zelmanov: Maximum sizes are going to be subject to change, I think the client should specify it's desired options for

multiple event queues

Zero Linden: We should architect so that there is never more than n-ms. latentcy in getting an expected queue

Gareth Ellison: so you never get bogged down with 1 huge event

Gareth Ellison: set a maximum event size

Gareth Ellison: that's a point

Dahlia Trimble: is there a maximum now?

Gareth Ellison: ideally the queue should never exceed a certain delay between events