User:Benjamin Linden/Office Hours/2008-09-04

Transcript of Benjamin Linden's office hours:

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[15:03]	Grant Linden:	today Erica Linden will host a brainstorming session on new resident starting locations
[15:03]	Aimee Trescothick waits on her seat rezzing some time this side of next week
[15:03]	Malbers Linden:	Hola!
[15:03]	Erica Linden:	as soon as her head loads...
[15:03]	Aimee Trescothick:	LOL
[15:03]	Grant Linden:	her froggy self takes extra server mojo
[15:03]	Jacek Antonelli:	Heya McCabe. Finally got out of bed? :D
[15:03]	Grant Linden:	Hello Blue Linden!
[15:04]	Aimee Trescothick:	"Sorry boss couldn't do no thinkin today, my head wouldn't rez"
[15:04]	McCabe Maxsted grumbles and throws pillows
[15:04]	Jacek Antonelli:	Hi Blue!
[15:04]	Erica Linden:	hi blue - glad you could make it
[15:04]	Malbers Linden:	hey Blue
[15:04]	Blue Linden:	hi :)
[15:04]	Jacek Antonelli:	Hiya Brent!
[15:04]	Brent Linden:	HIYA :)
[15:04]	Blue Linden:	it's one of my fave topics Erica :D
[15:04]	Brent Linden:	Bah, caps.
[15:04]	Jacek Antonelli:	Yikes, it's a Linden invasion today :D
[15:04]	Brent Linden waits for the laggy center of the grid to load
[15:04]	Kippie Friedkin:	Hi guys
[15:04]	Aimee Trescothick:	just thought you were feeling extra enthusiastic today Brent :)
[15:05]	McCabe Maxsted:	ahoy!
[15:05]	Erica Linden:	So lately Blue and I have been banging our heads against the question of First Locations -
[15:05]	Brent Linden:	ooh there is a floor!
[15:05]	Erica Linden:	ie: Orientation island (rip)
[15:05]	Erica Linden:	Help island
[15:05]	Squirrel Wood:	Ooo! its Blue!
[15:05]	Erica Linden:	Community gateways,
[15:05]	Blue Linden:	Hi Squirrel, ltns :)
[15:05]	Squirrel Wood:	^^
[15:05]	Erica Linden:	infoHUBs
[15:06]	Aimee Trescothick looks at the size of Blue's head and imagines that would hurt
[15:06]	McCabe Maxsted has a definite opinion on all three :)
[15:06]	Erica Linden:	The goal is: make new residents comfortable in SL, help them learn the controls, and make them want to come back.
[15:07]	Jacek Antonelli nods
[15:07]	Squirrel Wood:	Then they will need a logical world ^^
[15:07]	Erica Linden:	And, since it is SECOND LIFE, our options are almost unlimited!
[15:07]	Jacek Antonelli:	hehehe, yay!
[15:07]	Brent Linden:	And then LSL bites you in the butto. :(
[15:07]	Keisha Ninetails:	K.I.S.S
[15:07]	Erica Linden:	so i was hoping we could spend today coming up with brainstorms
[15:07]	Aimee Trescothick:	(Your mic is on Erica)
[15:08]	Brent Linden whimpers softly for his late Orientation Guide HUD
[15:08]	Blue Linden:	Brent, we can bring it back if you really want ;)
[15:08]	Brent Linden:	Erica OMG they are hearing our secret sideband plans !!
[15:08]	Erica Linden:	based on the incredible amount of experience collected in this room. :)
[15:08]	Jacek Antonelli hears you tapping out your plans in morse code on the keyboard!
[15:08]	Aimee Trescothick:	lol I was listening for *Ribbits!*
[15:09]	Brent Linden:	I has one thanks ;)
[15:09]	Erica Linden:	Bub Linden glued my mute button to ON the last time he was in town.
[15:09]	McCabe Maxsted:	hehe
[15:09]	Erica Linden:	>(
[15:09]	Jacek Antonelli:	haha
[15:09]	Brent Linden:	actually I has like 10,000 OIHUDS. They gave me all the leftovers after they killed the projec.t
[15:09]	Jacek Antonelli giggles
[15:09]	Brent Linden:	My poor inventory.
[15:09]	McCabe Maxsted grins. I can haz dupe finder?
[15:10]	Jacek Antonelli:	10k? A drop in the bucket. :D Anyway, back to the topic
[15:10]	Erica Linden:	Oh yeah - and since it's brainstorming, we should keep from wandering off into "possible not possible" "good idea bad idea"
[15:10]	McCabe Maxsted nods. Honestly, I am completely and utterly against the island system as the first means of user interraction in SL
[15:11]	Malbers Linden:	where "the island sysem" == OI and HI?
[15:11]	Erica Linden:	So: mainland location as opposed to island?
[15:11]	Pier Jaecies:	its almost like you want your own personal dressing room
[15:11]	Pier Jaecies:	somewhere to become and learn
[15:11]	Brent Linden:	Agreed. It was just a lotta work :-) I'm partial to it.
[15:11]	McCabe Maxsted:	yes, malbers
[15:11]	Erica Linden:	Pier: provide some privacy?
[15:11]	Pier Jaecies:	yes
[15:11]	McCabe Maxsted:	I don't think you'll be able to scale it, it's unfair to international residents, it has too many variables, and it relies on people willing/able to be savvy enough to explore around at the expense of others
[15:11]	Pier Jaecies:	with support
[15:11]	Erica Linden is writing this all down
[15:12]	Jacek Antonelli:	I liked Digado's idea of having a personal private space with a client-side tutorial until you at least get the basics
[15:12]	Keisha Ninetails:	what is the goal of LL here, to retain more peeps who know computers already and have experience with games and how to use them or, is it to get newbies to computers in general to come in and enjoy themselves?
[15:12]	Brent Linden:	I agree with privacy. Learning on your own client side would be great
[15:12]	Pier Jaecies:	i think people want to feel confident in thier looks and controling thier av
[15:12]	Pier Jaecies:	before interacting
[15:12]	Blue Linden:	all of the above Keisha
[15:12]	Pier Jaecies:	and exploring
[15:12]	Brent Linden:	Keisha: we want everyone.
[15:12]	Brent Linden:	SL-1!
[15:12]	Squirrel Wood:	What I would suggest is a complete, small town or space station or something that can be experienced as a whole and explored.
[15:12]	Kippie Friedkin:	Yes, I agree.D Digado's entry in the UI contest was a great idea. A private space that is tutorial based
[15:12]	Erica Linden:	so not just a private space like a changing room, but an uninterruptible personal space?
[15:13]	Keisha Ninetails:	then the last thing you want to do is drop them on the mainland where they will be griefed, leave, and never come back
[15:13]	McCabe Maxsted:	hehe jacek, I've brought that up at office hours like alexas and been told to look under help > tutorial. It's really not at all helpful to anything except for the most basic of instructions
[15:13]	Erica Linden:	like your "office" in SnowCrash ;)
[15:13]	Pier Jaecies:	y, keisha
[15:13]	Jacek Antonelli:	That would sure be nice, Erica :D
[15:13]	Grant Linden:	I want that Office
[15:13]	Kippie Friedkin:	Ditto.
[15:13]	Erica Linden:	Grant, you work in The Office.
[15:13]	Jacek Antonelli:	xD
[15:13]	Grant Linden:	heh
[15:13]	Erica Linden:	So, reduced griefing. No cow humping, etc.
[15:13]	Blue Linden:	Keisha, one experience the mentors have on OIs is that a significant number people just want to get to mainland, they don't want to do tutorials
[15:13]	Malbers Linden:	so, the Matrix "construct" or the SnowCrash "library"
[15:13]	Erica Linden:	Safety.
[15:14]	McCabe Maxsted:	what you need IMHO are 1. a client side wizard to teach the ui and 2. a client side orientation space with a controlled interraction taht you can setup for specific languages
[15:14]	Blue Linden:	until they know what the value SL holds for them is, they don't want to invest time learning it
[15:14]	Erica Linden:	so how to balance learning with exploring?
[15:14]	Keisha Ninetails:	yes, there does need to be a stupid simple way to get to the mainland, esp for alts who already know SL but, for boot noobs to online environments, they do need to be coddled and babied at first
[15:15]	Jacek Antonelli:	I think understanding the "dangers" of SL (e.g. griefers, rude/abusive people, etc.) are important to educate new users about. Sort of a "Defense Against the Dark Arts" mini-lesson
[15:15]	Pier Jaecies:	not sure
[15:15]	Keisha Ninetails:	SL is extremely intimidating, so just dumping them somewhere isn't good
[15:15]	Erica Linden:	in the past, OIs have used wandering paths, hallways, hubs, and other physical metaphors
[15:15]	Kippie Friedkin:	But if you can instill confidence in that user, by teaching them to walk, fly, and communicate...as well as customizing their av, they will be more likely to explore the world around them.
[15:15]	Blue Linden:	once people discover value in SL, it's hard to stop them from learning hehe :)
[15:15]	McCabe Maxsted:	you'll need to give people an obvious option to skip past it, yeah. That was a major shortcoming of the old OIs. Well, here's the thing erica: most people who arrive on help island won't know enough in order to effectively explore
[15:15]	Squirrel Wood:	Wild west town. named "Daisy Town" or something.... its high nood. the main road is empty save for our new player and that evil looking gangster type npc/bot. It is hot and quiet. Not a sound can be heard. Quick! Enter mouselook and make sure that gangster doesn't get to see the sunset! ^^
[15:15]	Pier Jaecies:	maybe they just need that personalized profile that shows them how to find things they are interested in , or a travel brochure, explore space or greece
[15:15]	Squirrel Wood:	nood? noon...
[15:16]	Keisha Ninetails:	something stupid simple with an easy way out
[15:16]	Erica Linden:	I'm hearing a lot of comments revolving around privacy, safety, and freedom... Squirrel suggests adding a narrative, Pier suggests interest-based content
[15:17]	Kippie Friedkin:	I'm hoping the features presented in the Recommendations project see the light of day because they may help new users a lot as well.
[15:17]	Pier Jaecies:	y
[15:17]	Pier Jaecies:	i agree
[15:17]	Squirrel Wood:	Would a quest system work that encourages people to find information in the setup on how to do certain things? That rewards them with trinkets like clothes, freebies, ..?
[15:17]	Jacek Antonelli:	Offering a "safe retreat" is good, both for newbies and more experienced users. It can get overwhelming being exposed to so much and so many people, sometimes you just want to go back someplace quiet for a while. (And then you find out you can never go back to Help Island, and you cry yourself to sleep)
[15:17]	Blue Linden:	hehe :)
[15:18]	Erica Linden:	What would help new residents understand how they can interact with the world? physical objects? 1-click interactive things like sailboarding or those segways on OI?
[15:18]	McCabe Maxsted:	there's a mentor experience we love to joke about, about all those people added to our friends lists who sign off one day and never sign on again. I don't really think gearing your new easier experience immediately around people on the grid is the wisest choice, heh. Another advantage is avatar creation. You can create an easy wizard for people to modify their avs and become more emotionally invested in SL before they enter teh grid
[15:18]	Squirrel Wood:	Ooo! Avatar store... you walk around a store and pick stuff you like ?
[15:18]	Blue Linden:	easier way to end up with personalized AV is definitely something we've talked about
[15:19]	McCabe Maxsted:	I was thinking more in this client side beginning space you customize yoru av's shape before you hit the grid
[15:19]	Blue Linden:	I know that lots of newbies have commented on how hard it is to make an av look good without investing a ton of time learning the appearance tools
[15:19]	Jacek Antonelli:	It would be fun to have a Flash thing when you register, to choose hair style and color, outfit, etc. And then your avatar starts out like that :D
[15:19]	McCabe Maxsted:	secondlife.com could do the same with the profile (which needs a revamp anyway)
[15:19]	Erica Linden:	ah right! easier avatar personalization
[15:19]	Kippie Friedkin:	Agreed
[15:19]	Blue Linden:	good points McCabe/Jacek
[15:19]	Erica Linden:	jacek - could you go back to it once your av exists?
[15:20]	Squirrel Wood:	What about a walk-in-closet type thing ?
[15:20]	Erica Linden:	Blue has been excited about the potential to have Automatically-updated sign content
[15:20]	Pier Jaecies:	what about a little house for the first 30 days, a home point and then charge after that?
[15:20]	Blue Linden:	yayz
[15:20]	Jacek Antonelli:	Hrmm. That would be nice. Maybe it could be built into the viewer somehow? A simplified Appearance window, like the Mii customizer tool on Wii :D
[15:20]	Pier Jaecies:	i like that squirrel
[15:21]	McCabe Maxsted:	yeah. Plus the avatar tutorial is wrong right now anyway, it says to edit your av just right click it. Doesn't make the distinction between avs and attachments
[15:21]	Aimee Trescothick:	The "Denoobalizer machine"
[15:21]	Jacek Antonelli:	hehe
[15:21]	Squirrel Wood:	"eat me" cookies and "drink me" potions to shrink or grow? ^^
[15:21]	Malbers Linden:	Pier brought up charging for a private space after a start-up period. Thoughts?
[15:22]	Erica Linden:	user observations on the current appearence editor led me to conclude that the appearance editor actively makes you ugly.
[15:22]	McCabe Maxsted:	I like that!
[15:22]	Erica Linden:	something more choice based? like: pick a head!
[15:22]	Kippie Friedkin:	Would that be like mainland space?
[15:22]	Erica Linden:	Pick your nose!
[15:22]	Keisha Ninetails:	didn't they kinda try that with firstland?
[15:22]	Erica Linden:	ahem.
[15:22]	Jacek Antonelli:	Exactly, Erica
[15:22]	Squirrel Wood:	I'd leave a basic private space for free and offer an advanced one which is bigger and allows customization for $....
[15:22]	Blue Linden:	hehe it does if you hit the "randomize" button Erica....perhaps we need a "beautify" button instead
[15:23]	McCabe Maxsted:	yes, it does. The numbers are arbitrary-feeling and don't modify well, especially for male avs (why most all of us walk around as these giant shouldered comic book characters). Being able to select presets for specific areas would be pretty handy
[15:23]	Erica Linden:	fixing the attachment / edit appearance conflict
[15:23]	Jacek Antonelli:	Right now, you have to fiddle with like 20 sliders just to make your avatar have a roundier nose that look at all natural
[15:23]	Brent Linden:	First Land was a space inworrld, not a private area. It had the additional load of picking a nice spot where not too many ugly buildings were already built
[15:23]	Erica Linden:	most folks ended up looking like the statue of liberty...
[15:23]	McCabe Maxsted:	hehe, yeah. I couldn't create my nose in SL, I tried for hours
[15:23]	Kippie Friedkin:	So maybe some presets for body parts would be useful. I like that.
[15:23]	Squirrel Wood:	I would definitely add in an option to set your avatars size in common units. like meters, inches, ...
[15:24]	Brent Linden:	A private space wouldn't have these problems, and I think would go over much better than first land
[15:24]	Erica Linden:	what about mentors/greeters?
[15:24]	Keisha Ninetails:	so, this private area will be a 'spawn' as needed type of thing?
[15:24]	Pier Jaecies:	well, you quickly want to show how they can purchase upgrades to really personalize thier look
[15:24]	Jacek Antonelli:	I think giving new users a private space to learn on their own time in a low pressure environment, plus an easier way to become emotionally attached to their avatar (thru easy customization) would add a lot to SL's sticking power already :)
[15:24]	Keisha Ninetails:	or will it live localy on a local run pseudo sim in the client?
[15:24]	Pier Jaecies:	i think htere is disappointment with what you can do with the basic appearance functions
[15:25]	Pier Jaecies:	it takes like weeks before you go...oh! i can be a squirrel
[15:25]	McCabe Maxsted:	you'll stilll need welcome areas. They're very useful, and there's places for mentors there
[15:25]	Pier Jaecies:	lol
[15:25]	Aimee Trescothick:	heh, face analysis, take a face on and profile shot with your webcam and extract the dimensions, ok, maybe I'm getting a little carried away
[15:25]	Erica Linden:	lol
[15:25]	Squirrel Wood:	private space should still have at least a chat channel of sorts where you can ask for help?
[15:25]	Pier Jaecies:	aimee that exists
[15:25]	Kippie Friedkin:	Good point, Jacek :)
[15:25]	Brent Linden:	I imagine it to be server space that isn't persistent (ie, you leave your space and it saves and quits the process until you return, unlike a region where he space is always running
[15:25]	Blue Linden:	I think there's a couple ways of thinking about private space.....nice to have time to privately learn....but social interaction is a big reason people stay in SL
[15:25]	Pier Jaecies:	isnt it the new twinity that allows you to upload a picture?
[15:25]	Kippie Friedkin:	ouch...lag
[15:25]	Blue Linden:	in that respect OIs were MOSTLY private....
[15:25]	Keisha Ninetails:	so 'spawns' as needed
[15:25]	Blue Linden:	but still some socializing
[15:25]	Keisha Ninetails:	gotcha
[15:25]	McCabe Maxsted:	I'm going to be honest again: I'm not particularly proud of the mentor program either. For every one mentor that seems to know what's what, there's four more that really doesn't have a clue. I'd about given up asking questions in QA this morning due to inaccruate answers
[15:26]	Erica Linden:	Access to a personal private space is something that hasn't been tried yet
[15:26]	Kippie Friedkin:	Yep...Twinity lets you upload your pic and have it become your av
[15:26]	Kippie Friedkin:	McCabe, I agree totally.
[15:26]	Kippie Friedkin:	Perhaps there should be some qualifiers before one becomes a Mentor.
[15:26]	Blue Linden:	McCabe, I agree we can do more to ensure mentor quality.....but that's probably a topic for another office hour ;)
[15:26]	Squirrel Wood:	hmm.. how about the ability to invite one or two people to that private space? but no more.
[15:26]	Erica Linden:	What about uniformed mentors? No scary avs allowed (death! with a scythe!)? ;)
[15:27]	Blue Linden:	catch me at 4pm on wednesday and I'll do that topic next week ;)
[15:27]	Brent Linden designs a UI for a Mentor.
[15:27]	Aimee Trescothick:	are they using that for mesh scaling or just texture do you know?
[15:27]	Malbers Linden:	Yes Squirrel -- great idea -- could invite a couple folks into private space
[15:27]	Jacek Antonelli:	Built-in mini OpenSim >:D
[15:27]	Brent Linden:	Uniformed friendly avs would be a great idea, erica
[15:27]	Erica Linden:	One thing I've been thinking about is: better messaging about core SL concepts (there are no NPCs, you can't die, etc)
[15:28]	Kippie Friedkin:	Uniformed mentors may be a good idea. But they should be creatively uniformed. I know a lot of Mentors have commented on helping users see the things you can do with an av
[15:28]	Aimee Trescothick read that as "Uninformed"
[15:28]	McCabe Maxsted:	yeah. Anyway. I like the idea of a place without crowd pressures. It scales, and it gives people access early to the concept of land ownership and the 3D space in a controleld way. The control I think is key. When people tp into SL, they don't have any idea what to expect (which is awesome in a way, speaks highly of SL) but is frustrating to watch. Feedback like "this is not a game" best comes from teh software
[15:28]	Kippie Friedkin:	That makes Mentors more noticeable and gets noobs asking questions.
[15:28]	Jacek Antonelli:	Yes, tutorials about "what SL is like" are a very good idea
[15:28]	Jacek Antonelli:	In addition to the "how to do this" tutorials
[15:28]	Aimee Trescothick:	which I thought was what we had now
[15:29]	Malbers Linden:	for uniformed mentors -- i've always pictured a Sheriff's badge that says "we don't need no stinking badges"
[15:29]	Blue Linden:	hehe :)
[15:29]	Kippie Friedkin:	lol
[15:29]	Brent Linden:	Jumpsuits!
[15:29]	Blue Linden:	this was actually the topic at my office hour yesterday.....mentors there didn't exactly like the uniform idea ;)
[15:29]	Erica Linden:	What about the folks who HATE HATE HATE tutorials? :)
[15:29]	Blue Linden:	also, uniforms are easy to spoof
[15:29]	Erica Linden:	Walmart Greeter Vests!
[15:29]	Erica Linden:	lol
[15:29]	Blue Linden:	haha
[15:29]	Kippie Friedkin:	ha
[15:29]	Blue Linden:	eek
[15:29]	McCabe Maxsted:	hahaha
[15:29]	Brent Linden:	+1 erica!
[15:29]	McCabe Maxsted:	oldbies at the door!
[15:30]	Blue Linden:	would that include maximum love handles slider?
[15:30]	Kippie Friedkin:	lol
[15:30]	Erica Linden:	"welcome to second life dear. wipe your feet."
[15:30]	Pier Jaecies:	so you have your little hut and the wall has information on it, just like a private mini mall. choose a tutorial or just some basic function tips?
[15:30]	Pier Jaecies:	with a help button
[15:30]	Erica Linden:	is your private space decorated?
[15:31]	Erica Linden:	can you get there at any time?
[15:31]	Jacek Antonelli:	Yes please :D
[15:31]	Kippie Friedkin:	Maybe that is your home location
[15:31]	Pier Jaecies:	yes its your home
[15:31]	Brent Linden:	Did any of you ever play Black and White?
[15:31]	Kippie Friedkin:	Sure did
[15:31]	Pier Jaecies:	when i log back in there i am
[15:31]	Brent Linden:	The Gods Playground is what I'm thinking of here
[15:31]	Erica Linden:	that came was cool.
[15:31]	Kippie Friedkin:	Yeah, exactly!
[15:31]	Brent Linden:	it was the place you could go back to at any time and it was full of info
[15:31]	Malbers Linden:	choose from some "templates" for decorations, tweak individual things as desired?
[15:31]	Jacek Antonelli:	Yes, give everyone their own pet monkey to smack around! .... oh, I thought that's where you were going with the B&W angle.
[15:31]	Pier Jaecies:	lol
[15:32]	Erica Linden:	or like the little world you walk around in between scenes in Katamari
[15:32]	Brent Linden:	Wha you do with your friends is your own business, Jacek!
[15:32]	Jacek Antonelli:	xD
[15:32]	Erica Linden:	Jacek: pet monkey. check.
[15:32]	Jacek Antonelli:	And a pony
[15:32]	Kippie Friedkin:	Just without the weird cod-piece wearing dad from katamari
[15:32]	Kippie Friedkin:	:)
[15:32]	McCabe Maxsted:	my idea has been using the load balancing stuff you've developed for the island system and using it for welcome areas: send an LM to the area for a welcome area they can jump right into if they want to skip all the tutorials. I would love to be able to go back :)
[15:32]	Erica Linden:	and a pony.
[15:32]	Brent Linden:	Philip?
[15:32]	Malbers Linden:	little philip-inspired monkeys
[15:32]	Brent Linden:	Sorry, I'm so bad for keeping thnigs on track.
[15:32]	Grant Linden:	always with the pony
[15:32]	McCabe Maxsted:	I always feel bad when newbies say stuff like "I'll tp back if I have any more questions"
[15:33]	Brent Linden:	40 acres and a mule
[15:33]	McCabe Maxsted:	and they tp out before you can explain "no, you actually can't"
[15:33]	McCabe Maxsted:	and you wonder if you should bother trying
[15:33]	Brent Linden:	McCabe, sounds like a job for a macro :)
[15:33]	Brent Linden:	/noooo!
[15:33]	McCabe Maxsted:	hahaha
[15:33]	Jacek Antonelli:	Yes. I can't stress enough how important it is to be able to "go back" to the safe place. *was a traumatized newbie* ;)
[15:33]	Kippie Friedkin nod
[15:34]	Erica Linden:	Is it true that re-acessable group welcome areas = Griefing ?
[15:34]	Brent Linden:	"Sorry, you can't teleport back. YOu should stay here until you're sure you're ready! You can also find public Help Islands too"
[15:34]	Kippie Friedkin:	"Hello, my name is Kippie. And I was a traumatized newbie"
[15:34]	Brent Linden:	erica, oh hells yeah
[15:34]	Erica Linden:	World's greatest hat?
[15:34]	Charlette Proto:	not me but see it everyday at no end in Korea
[15:34]	Brent Linden:	anyone who can script would be able to ruin OI experiences
[15:35]	Blue Linden:	hehe....what were you traumatized by Kippie?
[15:35]	Blue Linden:	other people?
[15:35]	Brent Linden:	even though it doesn't allow building, it does require us to leave run scripts on
[15:35]	Blue Linden:	bizarre threatening avs?
[15:35]	Brent Linden:	Frogs!
[15:35]	Jacek Antonelli:	Well, even if it's a "You can go back for the first 24 hours of log-in time after you leave HI", that would be better than nothing
[15:35]	Erica Linden:	sigh.
[15:35]	Kippie Friedkin:	Yeah. Suddenyl surrounded by naked avs. Got chased.
[15:35]	McCabe Maxsted:	erica, there's a fantastic jira for limiting sim access by SL age. For people who run stuff like they shelter, they could have sims that limit access to people who say register in the past twenty days
[15:35]	Blue Linden:	eep
[15:35]	Kippie Friedkin:	Hubby looks over at my laptop and asks who all those naked guys are.
[15:35]	Charlette Proto:	what about giving prizes for completion of each stage in the orientation
[15:35]	Kippie Friedkin:	LOL
[15:35]	Blue Linden:	I saw that in "the Meaning Of Life"
[15:35]	Brent Linden:	Jacek, you could still create bad evil things and wreak havoc (not Havok™) on the OI :(
[15:36]	Erica Linden:	Is the thing you want to "go back" to the tutorial content, the mentors, or the Other New Folks?
[15:36]	Brent Linden:	actulaly, also Havok™!!
[15:36]	Kippie Friedkin:	What if you could find mentors via search
[15:36]	Brent Linden misses when Welcome Areas were, um, welcoming.
[15:36]	Kippie Friedkin:	Maybe mentors could opt to make themselves available so that new users can look them up and IM a question or request help.
[15:36]	Erica Linden:	Welcome! Go away!
[15:36]	Jacek Antonelli:	Well, yeah. But can't you do that already? Have someone send you an orbiter? Or are inventory transfers blocked, or something?
[15:36]	Kippie Friedkin:	Then you can get help anywhere.
[15:36]	McCabe Maxsted:	a few people use scripted vendors to give out stuff solely to newbies, but limiting welcome areas to age should reduce incentives to grief 'em
[15:37]	Brent Linden:	Welcome! Listen to this annoying sound for the rest of our stay. *cue batman*
[15:37]	Erica Linden:	Interesting
[15:37]	Squirrel Wood:	If you complete this mouselook training stage you will be rewarded with: one pink hat, one green pair of pants, a photo of Torley and you'll get this snazzy new car here on top of it all!
[15:37]	Charlette Proto:	how about mentors doind a TP back to where the noob should have learnt what they ask about?
[15:37]	Brent Linden:	our/your
[15:37]	McCabe Maxsted:	pimp your SL with squirrel ;)
[15:37]	Erica Linden:	Squirrel: also a pack of dramamine
[15:37]	Squirrel Wood:	hehe
[15:38]	Erica Linden gets queasy in mouselook
[15:38]	McCabe Maxsted:	and I think people would go back for the tutorials, especialy once they realize just how complicated SL can get
[15:38]	Blue Linden:	haha
[15:38]	McCabe Maxsted:	as well as throwing wicked house parties
[15:38]	Erica Linden:	So: readily accessible tutorial content
[15:39]	Charlette Proto:	send the back when they ask obvious questions
[15:39]	Brent Linden:	Are Torley's tutorials something that residents learn about via word of mouth only?
[15:39]	Erica Linden:	what about more detailed, optional tutorials that go with you in the help menu?
[15:39]	Jacek Antonelli:	And a mentor-directed "Welcome to SL, here's what you can expect" notecard / audio tour / video :D
[15:39]	Brent Linden:	Perhaps just putting a link to them in the Help menu would help
[15:39]	Kippie Friedkin:	I like that idea.
[15:39]	Erica Linden:	like the one in Help > Tutorial in 1.20 and on..
[15:39]	Jacek Antonelli:	Starring Robert Deniro!!
[15:39]	Brent Linden:	OH HAI. THIS IS SL. NO I WONT GIVE U A MONEY.
[15:39]	Kippie Friedkin:	lol
[15:39]	McCabe Maxsted:	that'st he only way I've seen them spread: word of mouth. Don't know how many people click the blog, you'd have that info
[15:40]	Charlette Proto:	classes like school
[15:40]	McCabe Maxsted:	bah. There is still no tutorial for shopping, you know
[15:40]	Erica Linden:	oh boy. school.
[15:40]	Charlette Proto:	at least the would learn one from the other
[15:40]	Erica Linden:	brent and i were just aruging about that!
[15:40]	Erica Linden:	lol
[15:40]	McCabe Maxsted:	it's prolly the thing my friends do most often and no noob is taught about it
[15:40]	Charlette Proto:	little desks too
[15:40]	Squirrel Wood:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Video_Tutorials
[15:40]	Brent Linden:	think of it more like correspondence school, since you wouldn't have to be doing school with other people
[15:40]	Pier Jaecies:	yeah, shopping. i wore a box....i have to admit it
[15:40]	Grant Linden wants a "SL TV" packed full of vidoes I can give to Newbies - they can weat it onthier heads like a box
[15:40]	Jacek Antonelli:	Is there a tutorial for dance clubbing?
[15:41]	Erica Linden:	so, let's pull back a bit...
[15:41]	Malbers Linden thinks we've all put a box on our heads at one point
[15:41]	Brent Linden:	haha Jacek
[15:41]	McCabe Maxsted:	only if it's pole ;)
[15:41]	Jacek Antonelli:	Newbies these days are missing out on the authentic SL experience, now that the default attach point is your hand :(
[15:41]	Brent Linden:	It's actually quite difficult to put a box on your head nowadays, the default attach point is your right hand :)
[15:41]	Charlette Proto:	they do that all the time (wear the box)
[15:41]	Squirrel Wood:	http://secondlife.com/video works as well
[15:41]	Jacek Antonelli:	jinx!
[15:41]	Erica Linden:	imagine we want to make new residents like MY MOM more comfortable.
[15:41]	Brent Linden:	jinx!
[15:41]	Brent Linden:	lol
[15:42]	Brent Linden has worn a motorcycle
[15:42]	Erica Linden:	So much of the new resident stuff I see is still really technical!
[15:42]	Blue Linden:	is your mom cool?
[15:42]	Erica Linden:	no.
[15:42]	Grant Linden:	my mom is a tiny
[15:42]	Blue Linden:	lol
[15:42]	Erica Linden:	but she's lovely. and sweet.
[15:42]	McCabe Maxsted nods. The notecards on HI are pretty intimidating
[15:42]	Brent Linden:	No uncool people allowed. She has to go to Myspace.
[15:42]	Erica Linden:	and will bump into walls for three hours trying to attach the torch.
[15:43]	Malbers Linden:	rewording -- how do we get casual comuter users (not gamers) to stay in SL?
[15:43]	Blue Linden:	I have nothing against uncool people....I play one on TV
[15:43]	Malbers Linden:	computer
[15:43]	Erica Linden:	thanks Malbers.
[15:43]	Brent Linden:	I think all the signage of what you CANT do is scarier than the info on how you can do things
[15:43]	McCabe Maxsted:	heh, sounds like trying to teach my own mom about screen resolution
[15:43]	Keisha Ninetails:	K.I.S.S.
[15:43]	Brent Linden:	HI needs a makeover
[15:43]	Aimee Trescothick thinks her Mum's reaction would be "Second Life? Is that a religious cult?"
[15:43]	Brent Linden:	too many cooks, as it were
[15:43]	Malbers Linden:	why, yes it is
[15:44]	Charlette Proto:	haha
[15:44]	Brent Linden hands Aimee's mom a jumpsuit.
[15:44]	Jacek Antonelli:	Less technical tutorials. Or at least a variety of tutorials of different "difficulty" levels
[15:44]	Squirrel Wood:	give them new players a choice which tutorial they want to do? Some prefer videos, others may like questing more, yet others want notecards shoved in their faces, ...?
[15:44]	Jacek Antonelli:	Different types of tutorials/info. Not just notecards. Videos and audio too
[15:44]	Jacek Antonelli:	And interactive
[15:44]	McCabe Maxsted:	one of the advantages of having a client side approach is that the suer automatically selects their language, so you can stream whatever signs you need to in that language. That's a good start: giving them access to something. The tutorials should all be built into the client and have nice little interactive UIs
[15:44]	Malbers Linden:	so, support different styles of learning
[15:44]	Brent Linden:	Clippy!
[15:44]	Kippie Friedkin:	Absolutely
[15:44]	Brent Linden:	SLippy?
[15:45]	Keisha Ninetails:	why are the casual users here?
[15:45]	Kippie Friedkin:	lol
[15:45]	Charlette Proto:	still think giving bling and clothes as prizes would make noobs complete the tutorials
[15:45]	Kippie Friedkin:	I think Clippy's in rehab
[15:45]	Jacek Antonelli:	SLippy the oiled-up hippo! Whee!
[15:45]	Brent Linden:	+12!
[15:45]	Malbers Linden:	very god questions, keisha -- why are they here? (in your opinion)
[15:45]	Aimee Trescothick:	"No Mum it's a place I go inside the computer to converse with a variety of people aliens and anthropomorphic creatures"
[15:45]	Keisha Ninetails:	answer that and you'll know how to teach them to use SL
[15:45]	McCabe Maxsted:	if that means the client becomes a 150mb dl, honestly, that's not a lot of sacrafice these days
[15:45]	McCabe Maxsted:	will never sleep again thanks to taht mental image, jacek ;)
[15:45]	Jacek Antonelli has gained a level!
[15:46]	Kippie Friedkin:	lol
[15:46]	Pier Jaecies:	how to get casual computer users to stay, is give them a reason. you need to show them how they can travel and visit tibet, and outer space and show them where they can attend learning events, things they might do at a community education class or something, but that is a little beyond LL, unless you give them a travel guide and the profile thing i think would really help with that. its not so technical to sit in a chair and learn something
[15:46]	Brent Linden has an away message that reads "Brent Linden is in a meeting with a sexy frog woman, a jelly fish, a neko man and a lightning elemental."
[15:46]	Squirrel Wood:	Here! Take that lowrider, hop in and rotate these tires on those Linden roads here. If you get lost, just type HELP and you will immediately return here.
[15:46]	Erica Linden:	what. the. heck.
[15:46]	Keisha Ninetails:	and how far in the future are we looking to set this up, are we looking to work along side the AWG and their goal or is this just an intermediary thing until their goals are seen?
[15:46]	Malbers Linden:	to which commen, erica?
[15:46]	Aimee Trescothick:	"Click your heels three times ..."
[15:46]	Jacek Antonelli:	Also -- up-to-date tutorials. It's nice to have the info be still applicable
[15:47]	Aimee Trescothick:	name the private space Kansas
[15:47]	Erica Linden:	Is it aspirational urges that attract casual users? the urge to own cool stuff and be a frog?
[15:47]	McCabe Maxsted:	I hate to say it, but as much as IMVU sucks it totally pwns SL in the tutorial dept
[15:47]	Erica Linden:	...awkward pause....
[15:47]	Brent Linden:	/crickets
[15:47]	Brent Linden:	*crickets*
[15:48]	Squirrel Wood:	If you can spell the wors Mississippi correct, you may advance to the next sim.
[15:48]	Malbers Linden:	so, trying to recap -- give new users a private space to learn AND give them purpose (or find their purpose)?
[15:48]	McCabe Maxsted:	hahaha
[15:48]	Pier Jaecies:	its to live a fantasy or to aquire something they dont have in thier current reality, maybe
[15:48]	Blue Linden:	heheh
[15:48]	Squirrel Wood:	or was it antidisestablishmentarianism ?
[15:48]	Blue Linden:	yeah IMVU has a great intro
[15:48]	jennyalexandra Zanzibar:	herllo
[15:48]	Brent Linden:	Well, lets look at our own reasons for investigating SL
[15:48]	Malbers Linden:	Hi Jenny
[15:48]	jennyalexandra Zanzibar:	hello
[15:48]	Pier Jaecies:	and yes malbers that is a good summary i think
[15:48]	Jacek Antonelli:	Right, Malbers. Get them involved and engaged
[15:48]	Grant Linden:	hello Jenny
[15:49]	Jacek Antonelli:	and/or addicted
[15:49]	Blue Linden:	hi Jenny :)
[15:49]	Brent Linden:	Think back to when you were a Noob. Why did you even look at SL in the first place, and what kept you here
[15:49]	McCabe Maxsted nods. Hook 'em while they're young! I mean, err, early
[15:49]	Erica Linden has a theory that we just need to add a bunch of trampolines to help island.
[15:49]	jennyalexandra Zanzibar:	how are you
[15:49]	Squirrel Wood:	Give them "What Would You Like To Do Now" options to pick from ^^
[15:49]	Erica Linden:	;)
[15:49]	Brent Linden:	For me, it was building. I really thought it was cool to make something I could show to everyone
[15:49]	Grant Linden:	and help them find a porpoise
[15:50]	Jacek Antonelli:	Same here. Building/Creation. I wanted a game that was about making stuff and showing it to people.
[15:50]	Brent Linden abuse reports Erica for that thought
[15:50]	Kippie Friedkin:	That is similar to my experience...I came because I'd read blogs about building and scripting in SL.
[15:50]	Erica Linden:	for me, it was travel. Seeing castles and "Japan" and "Paris"
[15:50]	Keisha Ninetails:	yes, dolphins for everyone! *chuckles*
[15:50]	McCabe Maxsted:	for me it was because someone else was already here. She dragged me along, and when I couldn't figure out how to get out of OI she tp'd me
[15:50]	Pier Jaecies:	what drew me here and what excited me are different
[15:50]	Jacek Antonelli:	"She saved my life, the day she TPed me out of OI... I'll never forget it."
[15:50]	Pier Jaecies:	the aha, was that i could be anything and go anywhere
[15:50]	Brent Linden:	Yeah, I want ot know both!
[15:50]	Erica Linden:	What made you stay?
[15:50]	Pier Jaecies:	and meet people from everywhere
[15:50]	Erica Linden:	ah!
[15:51]	Jacek Antonelli:	The people. I made tons of new friends
[15:51]	Squirrel Wood:	building, scripting, sex, fashion, sex, meeting friends, sex, partying, did I mention sex yet?, ...
[15:51]	Pier Jaecies:	lol
[15:51]	Brent Linden:	Because what we think might be our reason for being interested in SL when we first start might not be why we stayed"
[15:51]	Charlette Proto:	squirel
[15:51]	Brent Linden:	random qoutation mark.
[15:51]	Erica Linden:	truethat
[15:51]	Brent Linden has a framerate of 2.
[15:51]	Chaley May:	When I first came on SL I wasnt very impressed and it scared me off because i got bored...
[15:51]	Pier Jaecies:	]i agree
[15:51]	Pier Jaecies:	mee too
[15:52]	Brent Linden:	What were your expectations?
[15:52]	Squirrel Wood:	Concerts, Events, listening to DJs, ...
[15:52]	Pier Jaecies:	i had none
[15:52]	Jacek Antonelli:	I still like building and content creation, but when things get frustrating and I feel like I could quit, it's my friends that give me a reason to stay
[15:52]	Pier Jaecies:	but i didnt know where to go or what to do or what were the possibilities
[15:52]	Pier Jaecies:	luckily kippie showed me the ropes
[15:52]	Pier Jaecies:	;)
[15:52]	Grant Linden:	Ah, presenting the possibilities
[15:52]	Kippie Friedkin:	:)
[15:52]	Chaley May:	Orientation island doesnt really immerse people enough into SL enough. I mean your first hour you dont really have any idea of the potential
[15:52]	Pier Jaecies:	yes, that is why i go back to just seeing the visuals of different av
[15:52]	Kippie Friedkin:	I feel a verse of"That's what friends are for" coming on...
[15:52]	Squirrel Wood:	for me a good reason to keep building is the weekly Iron Builder contest that takes place every saturday in Furnation Hell ^^
[15:52]	Pier Jaecies:	and a travel guide
[15:53]	Chaley May:	I did not see the world beyond
[15:53]	McCabe Maxsted nods. I nearly didn't stay at all, except I found a community of people to hang out with here inworld. That's when SL really became something special for me. They keep me in whenever I almost quit
[15:53]	Pier Jaecies:	or a community ed thing
[15:53]	Jacek Antonelli:	Probably having a real friend in SL is the most effective way to keep people coming back
[15:53]	Pier Jaecies:	the possibilities
[15:53]	Pier Jaecies:	for sure
[15:53]	Jacek Antonelli:	And to have the best experience
[15:53]	Chaley May:	Also newbies look really bad
[15:53]	Pier Jaecies:	then you wil meet people that have same interests
[15:53]	Blue Linden hums "you wanna go where people know....your troubles are all the same....you wanna go where everyone knows your name...."
[15:53]	Chaley May:	people look at themselves and think is that it then log out
[15:53]	Kippie Friedkin:	Norm!!
[15:53]	McCabe Maxsted:	haha
[15:53]	Chaley May:	but new avatars are better
[15:53]	Erica Linden:	oh cool - i didn't know about Iron Builder...
[15:53]	McCabe Maxsted:	and where noob cocks are freely available
[15:53]	Malbers Linden:	I have heard that we should transform HI into a huge bar
[15:53]	McCabe Maxsted:	if you listen to some
[15:53]	Blue Linden:	lol
[15:54]	Erica Linden needs a drink
[15:54]	Blue Linden:	yeah....orientation saloon :D
[15:54]	Charlette Proto:	clothes as prizes for tutorial completion again
[15:54]	Brent Linden:	Maybe a combination gallery space and tutoral
[15:54]	Charlette Proto:	then you could see who did them
[15:54]	Chaley May:	I think newbies getting makeovers from people who been around a while would be great
[15:54]	Blue Linden:	well, I have to run to TSL office hour thanks for the invite...great meeting :)
[15:54]	Pier Jaecies:	just LL $ for completion
[15:54]	Jacek Antonelli:	Bye Blue!
[15:54]	Grant Linden:	thank you for coming!!
[15:54]	Malbers Linden:	seya blue
[15:54]	McCabe Maxsted waves. Take care blue
[15:54]	Pier Jaecies:	ciao
[15:54]	Chaley May:	bye
[15:55]	Charlette Proto:	sure L# are a problem at first
[15:55]	Kippie Friedkin:	Cya Blue!
[15:55]	Erica Linden:	I should run as well. I want to get all this down before my next meeting. :)
[15:55]	Charlette Proto:	and so many try prostitution to get them
[15:55]	Brent Linden:	!
[15:55]	Grant Linden:	before any one else leaves...
[15:55]	Erica Linden:	prostitution. check.
[15:55]	Grant Linden:	Next week Jacek Antonelli will be our guest host and will lead a discussion about a new, user-interface oriented project called Imprudence.
[15:55]	Brent Linden:	Dirty, dirrty residents.
[15:55]	Kippie Friedkin:	yay!
[15:55]	Erica Linden:	Thanks so much for the conversation everyone!