User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2010 09 07

Transcript

[11:00]	Welcome to	Linden office hours
[11:00]	Moon Metty:	ahhh, the music already started
[11:00]	reddot99 Republic:	linden office hours, sans the lindens, lol
[11:00]	reddot99 Republic:	somebody try to remind andrew
[11:01]	Jonathan Yap:	The new jira seems to finally be up
[11:01]	Latif Khalifa:	not for everyone
[11:01]	Jonathan Yap:	You do not see the new dashboard Latif?
[11:01]	Latif Khalifa:	nope
[11:02]	Imaze Rhiano:	new dashboard?
[11:02]	Moon Metty:	me neither
[11:02]	Jonathan Yap:	http://jira.secondlife.com/secure/Dashboard.jspa
[11:02]	Jonathan Yap:	That is what I get
[11:02]	Jonathan Yap:	get redirected to, that is
[11:02]	Moon Metty:	oh
[11:02]	Moon Metty:	vwr-123
[11:02]
[11:02]	Moon Metty:	i see
[11:03]	Moon Metty:	the jira helper doen't have access
[11:03]	Jonathan Yap:	The will probably need to be reprogrammed
[11:03]	Imaze Rhiano:	ah... jira dashboard - I can see that
[11:03]	Imaze Rhiano:	at least it isn't spamming like in last meeting
[11:04]	reddot99 Republic:	lol
[11:04]	reddot99 Republic:	cant get to jira
[11:04]	Ardy Lay:	New JIRA up yet?
[11:04]	Moundsa Mayo:	Hi Andrew
[11:04]	Moon Metty:	hi Andrew
[11:04]	Jonathan Yap:	It is up for some of us
[11:04]	Moon Metty:	ca va bien?
[11:04]	Andrew Linden:	hello, sorry I"m late...
[11:04]	Imaze Rhiano:	hi Andrew
[11:04]	Moundsa Mayo:	We kept yer seat warm
[11:04]	Andrew Linden:	I forgot to boot my Windows computer until right before office hours
[11:04]	reddot99 Republic:	lol
[11:04]	Jonathan Yap:	Latif said try 63.246.25.177
[11:04]	Andrew Linden:	and it takes several minutes to this thing to boot up
[11:05]	Mojito Sorbet:	SL works on Linux too, ya know :)
[11:05]	Andrew Linden:	yeah, but I sometimes crash out on linux (macpro laptop + Ubuntu 10.04)
[11:05]	Andrew Linden:	and sometimes it is a hard crash -- something overheats and I have to reboot
[11:06]	Andrew Linden:	Simon is on vacation today.
[11:06]	Moon Metty:	oh yeah
[11:06]	Moon Metty:	well deserved
[11:06]	Andrew Linden:	Of course, I have very little news since Friday afternoon.
[11:06]	Andrew Linden:	This morning I've been working on math utils for overhauling the linkability rules.
[11:07]	reddot99 Republic:	i've got a question for you, one that i wanted to get in on friday
[11:07]	Andrew Linden:	My plan is to implement a simple bounding sphere check for the collection of prim centers
[11:08]	Andrew Linden:	The new algorithm would be prim-scale agnostic
[11:08]	Andrew Linden:	but would be invarient under link-order
[11:08]	Andrew Linden:	and should be much faster than the old system
[11:08]	Mojito Sorbet:	Wouldn't that break long thin chains of linked things?
[11:08]	Moon Metty:	the smallest sphere possible around all bounding boxes?
[11:08]	Rex Cronon:	hello everybody
[11:09]	Andrew Linden:	I'd compute th smallest bounding sphere for the set of prim centers (no boxes involved).
[11:09]	Moon Metty:	oh
[11:09]	Andrew Linden:	No, this would not break "long chains".
[11:09]	Moon Metty:	the smallest sphere possible around all prim centers?
[11:09]	Moon Metty:	yes
[11:09]	Andrew Linden:	There would be just one bounding sphere limit (probably ~64 meter diameter).
[11:09]	Imaze Rhiano:	why we need linking limits anyway?
[11:09]	Latif Khalifa:	what number did you end with, 64m?
[11:10]	reddot99 Republic:	i would ask that you make it smallest cube/sphere that fits arounds the objects, using a set max volume, that'd be more usefull i think
[11:10]	Rex Cronon:	64d dimater? not radius:(
[11:10]	Moon Metty:	so no two centers will be further apart than 64 m
[11:10]	Moon Metty:	or 128 m
[11:10]	Andrew Linden:	yeah, 64m -- it has to be bigger than the current 54 m limit.
[11:11]	Rex Cronon:	128 is also bigger:)
[11:11]	Andrew Linden:	plus some tolerance because the old bounding sphere calculation has some "unpradictable" inaccuracies
[11:11]	Andrew Linden:	but I'd have to support all legacy linkable content.
[11:11]	reddot99 Republic:	like spelling?
[11:11]	Mojito Sorbet:	What is bad about overly large link sets?
[11:12]	Andrew Linden:	The main reasons for linkability limits IMO are:
[11:12]	Andrew Linden:	(1) objects don't collide across region boundaries (yet)
[11:12]	reddot99 Republic:	can we get joints back at any point?
[11:13]	Andrew Linden:	(2) prim-encroachment, where your neighbor's objects extend over into your parcel, and you can't do anything about it
[11:13]	Andrew Linden:	yes, both of those problems exist right now
[11:13]	Andrew Linden:	however to expand the limits just makes them worse.
[11:13]	Andrew Linden:	I'd like to get those two done before expanding the linkability (if possible).
[11:13]	Rex Cronon:	u do something about it. u file an AR:)
[11:14]	reddot99 Republic:	couldnt raycasting be used to figure out encroachment? or a method to "show only prims on my parcel"
[11:14]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, well the support for AR's does not scale well.
[11:14]	Latif Khalifa:	enroachment needs fixinf for megprim liberation too
[11:14]	Andrew Linden:	We know how to solve prim encroachment... just need to schedule that work.
[11:14]	Andrew Linden:	ATM the team I'm on is focusing on performance
[11:15]	Rex Cronon:	even if implements prim-encroachement. people will still AR
[11:15]	reddot99 Republic:	like how somebody got an autobanned during a tournement because a competetior had an entire group AR the guy at once?
[11:15]	Rex Cronon:	if u implement*
[11:15]	Andrew Linden:	and the current cost of linkability calculations is one of the current hot spots
[11:15]	LOM Runner:	I just wanted to know about the face. It was mentioned at SLCC.. so just following up
[11:16]	Imaze Rhiano:	just remove linkability calculations :P and you will totally eliminate that hotspot :P
[11:16]	Andrew Linden:	/me reads back...
[11:16]	Andrew Linden:	no jointed objects for a while
[11:17]	reddot99 Republic:	aww, wait, 'for a while'. you mean they
[11:17]	Andrew Linden:	What was the "face" + "SLCC" thing about? That statement does not compute.
[11:17]	reddot99 Republic:	'll come back?
[11:17]	Moon Metty:	hehe
[11:17]	LOM Runner:	sorry.. like Face AO
[11:17]	LOM Runner:	facial expressions
[11:17]	Moon Metty:	are you saying NI to that old lady?
[11:18]	Andrew Linden:	We'd love to have jointed objects. We just have way too much work that will have to get done before then -- I can't even speculate on when joints will get done.
[11:18]	Latif Khalifa:	yeah performance on busy sims is pretty bad, that is deservably the first prio
[11:19]	reddot99 Republic:	how about raycasts, how far along the line is that?
[11:19]	Imaze Rhiano:	what about script memory limits? I heard that they are move to back log...
[11:19]	Andrew Linden:	Did someone talk about facial expressions + Animation Overides at SLCC?
[11:19]	LOM Runner:	yeah.. enabling that ability
[11:19]	LOM Runner:	to create animations for our faces... finally
[11:19]	Andrew Linden:	Script memory limits are on hold I think... mostly done but waiting for something.
[11:20]	reddot99 Republic:	would mean adding parts to the skeleton
[11:20]	Andrew Linden:	I can't remember what the holdup for script limits was.
[11:20]	reddot99 Republic:	and adjusting skeletons can do a lot
[11:20]	Andrew Linden:	Huh. I don't remember hearing that we had ambitions short-term plans for facial animations.
[11:21]	reddot99 Republic:	that reminds me though, way to change priority of existing animations
[11:21]	reddot99 Republic:	would be nice
[11:21]	Arawn Spitteler:	/me has very slow text, but IE is slower, today: Wouldn't facial expressions be a mere texture game? We can't script our avatar textures, would be the only problem.
[11:21]	Andrew Linden:	So, I don't know anything about it. We might be planning/working on it -- I'm a little out of touch when it comes to viewer features.
[11:21]	Moon Metty:	facial animations become interesting with augmented reality + webcam
[11:21]	reddot99 Republic:	theres lip sync beta in advanced menu
[11:22]	LOM Runner:	naw.. not a lecture... it was just talked about due to... awww Moon got it
[11:22]	Moon Metty:	:D
[11:22]	Andrew Linden:	Arawn, try disabling the water layer in your debug settings. I'm wondring how much your FPS changes when you do that.
[11:22]	Andrew Linden:	Arawn, you're currently at about 3FPS, right?
[11:23]	reddot99 Republic:	thats microsoft for ya,
[11:23]	Andrew Linden:	Arawn, disabling the water did not help?
[11:24]	Arawn Spitteler:	Water? I'm not using Windlaugh at all.
[11:24]	reddot99 Republic:	turning the alpha water layer does a lot regardless
[11:24]	reddot99 Republic:	turning off rather
[11:25]	LOM Runner:	well, it has to be put on the table soon, as we decrease the need for input devices
[11:25]	Andrew Linden:	Arawn, I meant... disable the rendering of the water completely: AdvancedMenu --> RenderingTypesOption --> Water
[11:25]	Andrew Linden:	aka CTRL + ALT + SHIFT + 7
[11:25]	reddot99 Republic:	go ahead and removes all other alpha layers as well
[11:25]	reddot99 Republic:	remove
[11:26]	Arawn Spitteler:	testing - testingg, still a little slow, but my system is having issues.
[11:26]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm... disabling the water and alpha types does not help my FPS at all.
[11:27]	Andrew Linden:	I'm currently at 11.5 fps today.
[11:27]	Rex Cronon:	try ctrl+alt+shift+9
[11:27]	Andrew Linden:	I was asking you to try it Arawn because another LL dev showed a demo where he had disabled the transparency of water for a slight gain in FPS.
[11:28]	Arawn Spitteler:	Turning off Water and characters broght me up to 17 fps
[11:28]	Andrew Linden:	I figured turning it completely off would help.
[11:28]	reddot99 Republic:	charecters probably did more,
[11:28]	Latif Khalifa:	i don't see any difference either
[11:28]	Moundsa Mayo:	11.5 Sim FPS, Andrew?
[11:28]	reddot99 Republic:	veiwer
[11:28]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, I guess my hardware is getting old.
[11:28]	Vista Questi:	sims not dilataed much, so no
[11:29]	Cummere Mayo:	if theres a differrance for me its about 1-2 frames andrew
[11:29]	reddot99 Republic:	also, andrew, any news on rez queueing?
[11:29]	Arawn Spitteler:	Diusabling water only has me at 2.6, which is better than 1.9
[11:29]	reddot99 Republic:	probably graphics card is choking on sculpts,
[11:29]	Andrew Linden:	Oh I see, my graphics were set for "Mid".
[11:29]	Andrew Linden:	At "Low" I get 27 FPS.
[11:29]	Vista Questi:	Andrew I'm suprised at you! surely you can afford better hardware than that! <smile>
[11:30]	office hours	is half over
[11:30]	Moundsa Mayo:	Ah. I'm at 17.1 at High. Meh.
[11:30]	reddot99 Republic:	he's on a laptop,
[11:30]	LOM Runner:	why does Chris Pirillo echo in my brain
[11:30]	Andrew Linden:	Meh. This is my windows machine. I only use it for LL and to make sure I didn't break the Windows build.
[11:30]	Vista Questi:	Its good to run what the little folk have from time to time, then. ;)
[11:30]	Andrew Linden:	No, somtimes I'm on a laptop, but then I crash out 50% of the time.
[11:31]	Andrew Linden:	Anyway, what I'm working on this week...
[11:31]	reddot99 Republic:	even on my old macbook, only crashs i've had are from teleport failures
[11:31]	Andrew Linden:	finishing up the new linkability rules, and trying to get my latest work up for test.
[11:31]	reddot99 Republic:	the rotation fixs?
[11:31]	Andrew Linden:	My main dev branch has some build problems that were merged in from someone elses work.
[11:32]	Andrew Linden:	And that someone is fixing it. Might be done today, there was progress on Friday.
[11:32]	Andrew Linden:	So hopefully up this week.
[11:32]	reddot99 Republic:	reuse of a variable?
[11:32]	Moundsa Mayo:	Pizza toppings in source file.
[11:33]	Arawn Spitteler:	Code Reuse, I'm sure.
[11:33]	Andrew Linden:	No, someone tried to use some new "tr1 C++" standards, but those don't yet work on the old version of Visual Studio we're using.
[11:33]	reddot99 Republic:	lol
[11:34]	Ardy Lay:	Oops. New programmer?
[11:34]	Arawn Spitteler:	That should have shown up on Alpha Test, on trying to build
[11:34]	Andrew Linden:	so he's converting to use boost:: instead (boost is a big lib of C++ "might become standards" stuff)
[11:35]	reddot99 Republic:	perhaps he tried with a newer version of visual studio
[11:35]	Jonathan Yap:	Andrew, now that the new jira is up can we see what is on your backlog?
[11:35]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm... Jonathan you want to see what is on my personal backlog? the backlog of my team? or LL's backlog?
[11:36]	Jonathan Yap:	The team in general
[11:36]	reddot99 Republic:	and rez queues still trigger, and without getting everybody to stop rezzing at once, they stay stopped for a while,
[11:36]	Cummere Mayo:	all three andrew
[11:36]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm.
[11:36]	Cummere Mayo:	it would be nice to see the same sort of transparency for the server stuff as the snowstorm team is trying to have
[11:37]	Jonathan Yap:	(Unless it is Top Secrekt)
[11:37]	Jonathan Yap:	I have an item for that backlog, but first would like to see if it is already there
[11:37]	Andrew Linden:	I'd like to hope that it would eventually be easy to compile and publish those backlogs.
[11:38]	Andrew Linden:	ATM I spend some of my time at these office hours talking about my own backlog, and some of what my team is working on or planning to work on
[11:38]	Andrew Linden:	however, the format it isn't in a nice sorted list
[11:39]	Andrew Linden:	it would be nice to just have a status page up somewhere
[11:39]	reddot99 Republic:	ton of sticky notes on moniter?
[11:39]	Cummere Mayo:	/me nods. if you could publish like snowstorm does you could give us a link
[11:39]	Vista Questi:	nobody writes with a pen anymore! =^-^=
[11:39]	reddot99 Republic:	i've printed on stickynotes before, heh
[11:40]	Andrew Linden:	When Simon gets back I'll ask him if we have plans to publish our team's backlog.
[11:40]	Imaze Rhiano:	pfftt... pen and paper have still superior resolution and more colors than you can imagine.... and low energy consumption
[11:40]	Andrew Linden:	I wouldn't want to compile the backlog of LL. I'd rather just point you at a web page.
[11:40]	Moon Metty:	:)
[11:41]	Andrew Linden:	I don't have time to keep up with all that we're working on.
[11:41]	Cummere Mayo:	any luck with getting the lag time on tp or crossings down?
[11:41]	Jonathan Yap:	I think that is what this new jira system is supposed to make easier
[11:41]	reddot99 Republic:	how long till mono upgrade?
[11:41]	Arawn Spitteler:	Compiled Log of LL is called a product
[11:41]	Andrew Linden:	No luck yet Cummere. We've got a few project to pursue on that front.
[11:41]	Andrew Linden:	One of which is faster linkability rules (not complete).
[11:41]	Cummere Mayo:	/me nod.
[11:41]	NullSubset Burner:	hmm- was the, Included boost libraries prevent VC90 from compiling-removed from Jira?
[11:42]	Cummere Mayo:	just asking andrew. i know it is a long project :)
[11:42]	Andrew Linden:	Don't know the ETA for mono upgrade. I'll make a note to ask Kelly.
[11:43]	reddot99 Republic:	can the abuse email address estate feature be enabled? do estate owners/managers request it? or does linden labs keep that disabled
[11:43]	Andrew Linden:	Ok, I'm going to have to leave very shortly for an 11:45 meeting.
[11:43]	Moon Metty:	yup
[11:43]	Cummere Mayo:	ty andrew :)
[11:43]	Andrew Linden:	The abuse email feature was disabled and I don't think there are any plans on re-enabling it.
[11:44]	Rex Cronon:	tc andrew
[11:44]	Jonathan Yap:	Thank you for your time Andrew
[11:44]	Andrew Linden:	I wonder who knows about that feature.
[11:44]	Moundsa Mayo:	Thanks for your time, Andrew.
[11:44]	Qie Niangao:	Thanks Andrew.
[11:44]	reddot99 Republic:	can it be reenabled on a special server roll like ones you mentioned friday
[11:44]	Latif Khalifa:	Andrew, thanks for your time :)
[11:44]	Moon Metty:	thanks Andrew, see you soon :)
[11:44]	Andrew Linden:	dunno reddot99. I'll make a note to investigate, but ask again next hour.
[11:44]	reddot99 Republic:	k,
[11:46]	Andrew Linden:	Gotta go. Thanks for coming.
[11:46]	reddot99 Republic:	would ask kelly, but i've got classes all morning during that time,
[11:46]	Moon Metty:	i get "untrusted connection" when i try to reach the jira now
[11:46]	reddot99 Republic:	see ya
[11:46]	Vista Questi:	Yip!
[11:46]	NullSubset Burner:	thank you Mr Andrew
[11:46]	reddot99 Republic:	i got that already moon
[11:46]	Imaze Rhiano:	thank you Andrew

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