User:Enkidu Linden/Office Hourse/2010-12-03

List of Attendees

• Cummere Mayo
• Enkidu Linden
• lonetorus Habilis

Transcript

[11:02]	Enkidu Linden:	hey there
[11:02]	lonetorus Habilis:	hey there
[11:02]	lonetorus Habilis:	we are being sound greifed XD
[11:03]	Enkidu Linden:	are we? i don't hear anything
[11:03]	lonetorus Habilis:	i hear it
[11:03]	lonetorus Habilis:	high pitched howling
[11:03]	lonetorus Habilis:	not too loud
[11:04]	lonetorus Habilis:	ahh
[11:04]	lonetorus Habilis:	its the chopper out over the water
[11:04]	lonetorus Habilis:	next to us
[11:04]	Enkidu Linden:	maybe it's like that mosquito thing
[11:04]	Enkidu Linden:	and i'm just too old
[11:04]	Enkidu Linden:	which is sad
[11:05]	lonetorus Habilis:	awww
[11:06]	Enkidu Linden:	ok i think i'm done crying
[11:06]	lonetorus Habilis:	heh
[11:06]	lonetorus Habilis:	and i blacklisted the sound
[11:06]	lonetorus Habilis:	so i hear nothing now
[11:06]	lonetorus Habilis:	well not that thing anyway
[11:06]	lonetorus Habilis:	oh
[11:07]	lonetorus Habilis:	i thought i experienced something really flawed today
[11:07]	lonetorus Habilis:	turned out to be my adblocker interfering with the new advertising.secondlife domian
[11:07]	lonetorus Habilis:	XD
[11:07]	lonetorus Habilis:	it was blocking all the css
[11:08]	Enkidu Linden:	that's cool
[11:08]	Enkidu Linden:	counds like adblocker is working
[11:08]	Enkidu Linden:	er, sounds
[11:08]	lonetorus Habilis:	heh, yeah except i wanted to try the new system
[11:08]	lonetorus Habilis:	its very ahrd without the css XD
[11:09]	Enkidu Linden:	i bet!
[11:09]	lonetorus Habilis:	and i probably already lost the window of opertunity
[11:09]	Enkidu Linden:	did it look well formed?
[11:09]	lonetorus Habilis:	yeah it was sort of ok without css, but not usable, also no js
[11:10]	lonetorus Habilis:	a site could detect adblocking and tell the user thoug
[11:10]	lonetorus Habilis:	h
[11:11]	Enkidu Linden:	could it? i'm not sure how those things work
[11:12]	lonetorus Habilis:	a bit like firewall rules
[11:12]	Enkidu Linden:	i thought they detected html and js that followed the pattern ads like to use and disabled them
[11:12]	lonetorus Habilis:	so additional page reisits would never get downloaded
[11:12]	lonetorus Habilis:	requisits
[11:13]	lonetorus Habilis:	the web server knows what was fetched so its just a mater of combingin the dots
[11:13]	lonetorus Habilis:	...in a sea of dots
[11:13]	lonetorus Habilis:	of course there could also be other reasons wh y a client might omit some elements
[11:14]	Enkidu Linden:	fig leaf
[11:14]	lonetorus Habilis:	like tcp over carrier pigion
[11:15]	lonetorus Habilis:	fig leaf?
[11:15]	lonetorus Habilis:	you need one?
[11:15]	lonetorus Habilis:	you do look a bit naked
[11:15]	Enkidu Linden:	no i mean the adblocker should cover them up with fig leaves
[11:16]	Enkidu Linden:	also the carrier pigeon thing reminds me of this
[11:16]	Enkidu Linden:	http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2324
[11:16]	lonetorus Habilis:	yeah, though i could not remember the rfc number
[11:17]	lonetorus Habilis:	but i suppose timeouts are governed by the client
[11:17]	lonetorus Habilis:	shrugs
[11:17]	lonetorus Habilis:	added an exception rule and all is ok again
[11:17]	lonetorus Habilis:	so what has you excited regaarding sl these days?
[11:17]	Enkidu Linden:	i love the intro
[11:18]	Enkidu Linden:	"Thus, there is a strong, dark, rich requirement for a protocol designed espressoly for the brewing of
[11:18]	lonetorus Habilis:	oh what wait, i assumed you where linkiing the rfc for carrier pigions XD
[11:18]	lonetorus Habilislonetorus	Habilis looks at the page
[11:19]	Enkidu Linden:	2.3.2 418 I'm a teapot
[11:20]	lonetorus Habilis:	heh, teapots
[11:20]	lonetorus Habilis:	im a great fan of russels teapot
[11:20]	lonetorus Habilis:	i even sculpted it as one of my first sculpts
[11:20]	Cummere Mayo:	ouch!
[11:20]	lonetorus Habilis:	hey cummere
[11:20]	Cummere Mayo:	hey lone hey enkidu
[11:20]	Enkidu Linden:	hey there
[11:20]	Enkidu Linden:	welcome!
[11:21]	Cummere Mayo:	enkidu soemday you have to teach me how to pronounce that
[11:21]	Enkidu Linden:	i don't really have anything exciting to discuss today
[11:21]	Enkidu Linden:	oh, it's like
[11:21]	Cummere Mayo:	I do *grins*
[11:21]	Enkidu Linden:	en kee doo
[11:21]	Cummere Mayo:	ty
[11:21]	Cummere Mayo:	welll... if you have nothing to discuss um i can point you to SEC-802
[11:22]	Enkidu Linden:	sure
[11:22]	Enkidu Linden:	let me read it
[11:22]	Cummere Mayo:	lol someone has a sound loop going ^^
[11:23]	lonetorus Habilis:	its the chopper over the water next to us
[11:23]	lonetorus Habilis:	just block it if you are on a third party client that supports sound blocking
[11:24]	lonetorus Habilis:	just block it if you are on a third party client that supports sound blocking
[11:24]	Cummere Mayo:	unfortuneatley blocking doesnt seem to handle sounds on v2
[11:25]	lonetorus Habilis:	tpv's have a spefcific feature to just block sounds
[11:25]	Enkidu Linden:	oh, you just opened this jira
[11:25]	Cummere Mayo:	yes i did but ive reported it through tickets before.
[11:25]	Cummere Mayo:	and support knows about the issue
[11:25]	Cummere Mayo:	but i think burried it
[11:25]	lonetorus Habilis:	can i ask what its about?
[11:26]	Enkidu Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SEC-802
[11:26]	Cummere Mayo:	basically a potentially major security breach becuase of a bug in the tickt and livechat system
[11:26]	Cummere Mayo:	probably related to cookies
[11:26]	lonetorus Habilis:	SEC's are not public
[11:27]	lonetorus Habilis:	okies :)
[11:27]	Cummere Mayo:	ive had at least three tickets filed under my accounts by users logged itno their accounts
[11:28]	Enkidu Linden:	i'm asking the security team to look at it right now
[11:28]	Enkidu Linden:	i'd go with a cookie problem too
[11:28]	Cummere Mayo:	and i dont know how many times people have accessed livechat under my accounts but i know i have been logged into one fo my accounts and accessed livechat only to find out that they saw me as another SEVERAL times
[11:28]	Cummere Mayo:	I dont know how to pull and link those logs
[11:29]	Cummere Mayo:	but its been there at least 6 months
[11:29]	Cummere Mayo:	and if support isnt going to let out its happening, i am
[11:29]	lonetorus Habilis:	heh, at least you get to talk to someone on live chat ;)
[11:29]	Cummere Mayo:	if i wait 90 minutes
[11:29]	lonetorus Habilis:	last few times i tried i waited for around 1-2 hours
[11:30]	lonetorus Habilis:	ahh ok
[11:30]	Cummere Mayo:	believe me i am not a fan of live chat
[11:30]	Cummere Mayo:	i used to be
[11:30]	lonetorus Habilis:	it was great to begin with
[11:30]	Cummere Mayo:	back when peopel like twilight, teagan, joppa, etc ran it
[11:30]	lonetorus Habilis:	and the reson i signed up to be premium
[11:30]	lonetorus Habilis:	dont see the point today
[11:30]	lonetorus Habilis:	should go back to basic account really
[11:30]	Cummere Mayo:	omg joppa was a dear
[11:30]	lonetorus Habilis:	not even using my 512m land
[11:31]	Cummere Mayo:	yeah i did renew my one one last time, but im revertingher, im nto renewing this one
[11:31]	Cummere Mayo:	im tired of not getting what i pay for
[11:32]	Cummere Mayo:	anyways enkidu any thoughts on if thats fixable?
[11:32]	Cummere Mayo:	its not just my accounts and computers its happening to
[11:32]	Cummere Mayo:	wb lone
[11:32]	lonetorus Habilis:	heh
[11:33]	lonetorus Habilis:	heh, that was very close to 26 hours online in one go
[11:33]	Cummere Mayo:	nice
[11:33]	Cummere Mayo:	v2 isnt quite that stable yet... but getting tthere
[11:33]	Cummere Mayo:	i can get about 18
[11:34]	lonetorus Habilis:	i tried v2 2 weeks ago
[11:34]	lonetorus Habilis:	i was unable to uncloud myself
[11:34]	lonetorus Habilis:	:/
[11:34]	Cummere Mayo:	you usually use phoenix?
[11:34]	lonetorus Habilis:	yeah
[11:34]	Cummere Mayo:	yeah thats why
[11:34]	lonetorus Habilis:	there is some inv bug?
[11:34]	Cummere Mayo:	try taking off the stupid bridge thing
[11:34]	lonetorus Habilis:	or attachment
[11:35]	Cummere Mayo:	and then replacing your hair base
[11:35]	lonetorus Habilis:	yeah didnt try that
[11:35]	Cummere Mayo:	that bridge attaches to a made up attachment point thats phoenix specific
[11:35]	Cummere Mayo:	well emerald based specific
[11:35]	lonetorus Habilis:	yeah i know
[11:36]	Cummere Mayo:	it sometimes screwes up v2
[11:36]	lonetorus Habilis:	it just never came to my mind what the problem could have been
[11:36]	Cummere Mayo:	oh it can be like 20 things
[11:36]	lonetorus Habilis:	and im probably not the only one
[11:36]	Cummere Mayo:	those are the two most common
[11:36]	lonetorus Habilis:	that does not shed a very positive light on v2
[11:36]	lonetorus Habilis:	humm
[11:37]	lonetorus Habilis:	if ppl experience these kinds of side effects
[11:37]	Cummere Mayo:	the bridge thing is cuase of emerald/pheonix
[11:37]	Cummere Mayo:	the other is an sl wide issue
[11:37]	lonetorus Habilis:	whatever the cause in the mind of the user its a v2 failure
[11:37]	Cummere Mayo:	theres also if a piece of clothing gets corrupted and the viewer thinks its a shape
[11:38]	Cummere Mayo:	ild really really really like to see a debug system in the viewer that would allow you to self fix inventory that has been turned into a shape
[11:39]	Cummere Mayo:	or lost its link to the orriginal uuid
[11:40]	Cummere Mayo:	acutlaly ild love to see a web based inventory sorter too and have asked for one... repeatedly
[11:40]	Cummere Mayo:	lol
[11:40]	lonetorus Habilis:	heh
[11:41]	lonetorus Habilis:	i cant remember ever not hearing inv issues being discussed
[11:41]	lonetorus Habilis:	it was one of the first "sl culture" things i encountered as a nub
[11:43]	lonetorus Habilis:	hmm, should box up some more xmas items
[11:43]	lonetorus Habilis:	though im probably too late already
[11:43]	Cummere Mayo:	damn i have almost 100 jiras to my name now lol
[11:44]	lonetorus Habilis:	whats your highest vote count
[11:44]	Enkidu Linden:	whew
[11:44]	Cummere Mayo:	um not that high i think about 50
[11:44]	Cummere Mayo:	lol
[11:45]	Cummere Mayo:	wb enkidu
[11:46]	Enkidu Linden:	sorry
[11:46]	Enkidu Linden:	trying to do like four things at once
[11:46]	Enkidu Linden:	web based inventory management would be awesome
[11:46]	Cummere Mayo:	oh i found the orriginal ticket i filed for the same issue finally too
[11:46]	Enkidu Linden:	oh cool
[11:47]	Enkidu Linden:	can you drop a link to it in the jira?
[11:47]	Cummere Mayo:	WEB-2489
[11:47]
[11:47]	Cummere Mayo:	and yes im linking now
[11:47]	lonetorus Habilis:	well, first migrate the inventory management of marketplace to marketplace, its still part of the xstreesl web pages
[11:47]	lonetorus Habilis:	;)
[11:48]	lonetorus Habilis:	aswell as ANS settings
[11:48]	Enkidu Linden:	i believe that's in progress
[11:48]	lonetorus Habilis:	yeah i would think so too
[11:48]	lonetorus Habilis:	so we can finally switch off xstreet
[11:48]	Cummere Mayo:	and for gos sake allow us to disable items on marketplace
[11:49]	Cummere Mayo:	im irritated that i cant do that
[11:49]	lonetorus Habilis:	unlist?
[11:49]	lonetorus Habilis:	or how do you men disable
[11:49]	Cummere Mayo:	yeah.... i can take up the server, but then i get complaints when stuffs not delivered
[11:49]	Cummere Mayo:	i HATE the new marketplace
[11:50]	Cummere Mayo:	and i hate how shoppers and merchants alike had our concerns and feedback thrown out the window
[11:50]	Cummere Mayo:	so i refuse to use it
[11:50]	lonetorus Habilis:	i think its ok, a much improved shoppping experience
[11:50]	lonetorus Habilis:	xstreet alwasy seemed to me like a eye sore
[11:50]	Cummere Mayo:	heh ever tried to gift stuff?
[11:50]	Cummere Mayo:	or really search for something kinda obscure that you KNOW is there?
[11:51]	lonetorus Habilis:	no i think i have made 2 purchases
[11:51]	lonetorus Habilis:	and about 10 on xstreet
[11:51]	Cummere Mayo:	gifting is broken, search is broken, allot fo purchases get stalled and neither delivered nor refunded
[11:51]	Cummere Mayo:	and the merchants allot fo times are not being paid
[11:51]	lonetorus Habilis:	i often search both xstreet and marketplace for the same terms over time
[11:51]	lonetorus Habilis:	to compare my listing placements
[11:52]	lonetorus Habilis:	i have not been able to tell much difference
[11:52]	Cummere Mayo:	relavancy on searches puts things in the wrong order
[11:52]	Cummere Mayo:	featured listings are all messed up
[11:52]	lonetorus Habilis:	and if anything there has only been a slight increase in undelivered items
[11:53]	Cummere Mayo:	and you cant even easily search by creator
[11:53]	Cummere Mayo:	you have to put their name in, go to one of their products then access their store
[11:53]	Cummere Mayo:	on rez was even better
[11:53]	Cummere Mayo:	hell apez is better and thats saying something
[11:54]	lonetorus Habilis:	apez listing setup is really bad afair
[11:54]	lonetorus Habilis:	and i never used onrez
[11:54]	Enkidu Linden:	good times
[11:54]	Cummere Mayo:	yeha if you knwo how bad apez is and its better
[11:55]	lonetorus Habilis:	well i dont thik the listing setup on apez is better
[11:55]	lonetorus Habilis:	its much worse than marketplace
[11:55]	lonetorus Habilis:	XD
[11:55]	Cummere Mayo:	then lone you understand why so many merchants want to throttle brodesky and others involved
[11:55]	Cummere Mayo:	trust me , its better, so is their search. and they are a pain.
[11:55]	lonetorus Habilis:	whats the requrements to be a disgruntled merchant?
[11:55]	Cummere Mayo:	i left them for xstreet and on rez
[11:55]	Cummere Mayo:	i went back to them
[11:55]	lonetorus Habilis:	because somehow i dont think i fit the group
[11:56]	Cummere Mayo:	um better search, to get paid for our sells, to have our transaction ids match with the buyers, to have featured listings work, to be able to disable our accounts on marketplace without worrying about fraud alerts
[11:56]	Enkidu Linden:	your transaction ids don't match?
[11:57]	Cummere Mayo:	to be able to list our products in more then obne or two categories
[11:57]	Cummere Mayo:	nope
[11:57]	Cummere Mayo:	they still dont
[11:57]	Cummere Mayo:	cuase they are two transactions
[11:57]	Cummere Mayo:	one from buyer to marketplace
[11:57]	Enkidu Linden:	ah right
[11:57]	Cummere Mayo:	one from marketplace3 to merchant
[11:57]	Cummere Mayo:	that was the *********** stupidest thing ever!
[11:57]	Enkidu Linden:	yeah i don't think that can change but there should be a way to correlate the two
[11:57]	Cummere Mayo:	oh and a working gift system and working cart
[11:58]	Enkidu Linden:	i'm not on the marketplace team but feel free to talk about what is wrong with the gifting system and the cart
[11:58]	lonetorus Habilis:	working how?
[11:58]	Cummere Mayo:	should be the same transaction number for the buyer and all sellers in an order, and all giftees
[11:58]	Cummere Mayo:	gifting you have to do a seprate purchase of each item
[11:59]	Cummere Mayo:	cuase you cannot sya gift the same item to three people
[11:59]	Cummere Mayo:	it sends all three to same person
[11:59]	Cummere Mayo:	and thats assumign it FINDS the person
[12:00]	Cummere Mayo:	cart system should allow you to purchase as many of an item you want, and split it up so you can gift however many to however many people AND have one for yourself if you want
[12:00]	Cummere Mayo:	and gift should be a top level option not just burried in the cart
[12:00]	lonetorus Habilis:	sounds like too many decissions for the shopper
[12:00]	lonetorus Habilis:	complex
[12:01]	Cummere Mayo:	it is.
[12:01]	Cummere Mayo:	and allot fo merchants have lots lots of sales
[12:01]	Cummere Mayo:	a few very few have gotten more
[12:01]	Cummere Mayo:	but mostly because of the problems with featured and relevancy being backwords
[12:01]	lonetorus Habilis:	my sales are the same or increasing
[12:01]	Cummere Mayo:	some of mine dropped some fo mine picked up
[12:02]	lonetorus Habilis:	hard to tell though i miss a nice sales history graph withe sales vs time
[12:02]	Cummere Mayo:	my tattoos for example dropped because if you run a search for tatoo soem reason my gurney actually shows up first
[12:02]	Cummere Mayo:	and its not even a damn tatoo. i just had a byline that read that i also make tats!
[12:03]	Cummere Mayo:	thats the kinda crap happening
[12:03]	Cummere Mayo:	and the jiras are being ignored.
[12:03]	Cummere Mayo:	and some merchants are still owed thousands and thousands of L$ from where they still havent gotten paid for stuff people bought
[12:04]	lonetorus Habilis:	but was delivered?
[12:04]	Cummere Mayo:	yes
[12:04]	lonetorus Habilis:	oO
[12:04]	Enkidu Linden:	hmm
[12:04]	Cummere Mayo:	and the only visible contact from marketplace is gone now.
[12:05]	Cummere Mayo:	though tbh
[12:05]	Enkidu Linden:	i wonder who should be handling that issue
[12:05]	Cummere Mayo:	at times he was a bit of a jerk
[12:06]	lonetorus Habilis:	is there a marketplace oh?
[12:06]	Enkidu Linden:	i don't think there is specifically
[12:07]	Cummere Mayo:	no marketplace oh
[12:07]	Cummere Mayo:	thee were like three major meetings
[12:07]	Cummere Mayo:	basically "we're doing this and youll like it or else" type meetings
[12:08]	lonetorus Habilis:	yeah like jacks meetings regarding openspace pricing
[12:08]	Cummere Mayo:	back before marketplace went live
[12:08]	Cummere Mayo:	exactly like that
[12:08]	Cummere Mayo:	they even banned people that said "hey no way, we dont want this"
[12:08]	lonetorus Habilis:	i mean neither you enkidu or yoz work on marketplace
[12:09]	Cummere Mayo:	brodesky was one that did
[12:09]	lonetorus Habilis:	and i cant recall other web lindens with oh's
[12:09]	Cummere Mayo:	he didnt have an oh
[12:09]	Enkidu Linden:	i think that's all of us
[12:09]	Cummere Mayo:	and he could be a jerk if you disagreed with his vision
[12:09]	Cummere Mayo:	and now because so many merchants pulled off the marketplace they have made it very hard to do so
[12:10]	Cummere Mayo:	and its a "favor" to us
[12:10]	lonetorus Habilis:	yeah why can i bulk unlist
[12:10]	lonetorus Habilis:	XD
[12:10]	lonetorus Habilis:	i needed that the other day when updating listings
[12:10]	lonetorus Habilis:	rather bulk delete
[12:11]	Cummere Mayo:	oh and we cant easily replace an item either. like a new version, we have to make a new lsiting instead of trade it for the old one
[12:11]	lonetorus Habilis:	i thik i still have a few items listed twice
[12:11]	lonetorus Habilis:	XD
[12:11]	Cummere Mayo:	used to be able to pop it in the server, update the listing, and pop the old one out
[12:11]	Cummere Mayo:	no fuss
[12:11]	lonetorus Habilis:	but i suppose they will go through review at some point and get delisted, i can juust flag them
[12:11]	Cummere Mayo:	now you cant do that
[12:12]	Cummere Mayo:	so im kinda stuck
[12:12]	lonetorus Habilis:	how are the enhancements flawed?
[12:13]	lonetorus Habilis:	you said so before
[12:13]	Enkidu Linden:	hey guys, i need to break off and take care of something important
[12:13]	Enkidu Linden:	it's lunchtime!
[12:13]	Cummere Mayo:	okay tc
[12:13]	Cummere Mayo:	i need to go bug yoz anyways
[12:13]	lonetorus Habilis:	lol, go on and take care
[12:13]	lonetorus Habilis:	have a good lunch
[12:13]	Enkidu Linden:	thanks for swinging by. i'll pass the transcript on to the marketplace team and see if i can get one of them to show up next week
[12:14]	lonetorus Habilis:	would be great
[12:14]	Cummere Mayo:	that would be nice. please advertise it if you do though
[12:14]	Cummere Mayo:	so we can get the lynch mobs here
[12:14]	Enkidu Linden:	yikes
[12:14]	lonetorus Habilis:	sigh
[12:14]	lonetorus Habilis:	no thanks
[12:15]	Enkidu Linden:	ok, i'll see what i can do
[12:15]	Cummere Mayo:	ty enkidu :)
[12:15]	Enkidu Linden:	thanks guys!
[12:15]	Enkidu Linden:	see you next times
[12:15]	lonetorus Habilis:	yeah you too
[12:15]	lonetorus Habilis:	see ya

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