Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2013-03-14

[2013/03/14 15:04]  Lucia Nightfire: heh, we're almost at a 1:1 Linden to guest ratio
[2013/03/14 15:04]  Rex Cronon: greetings everybody
[2013/03/14 15:04]  Lucia Nightfire: need two more Lindens
[2013/03/14 15:04]  Maestro Linden: sorry for the delay
[2013/03/14 15:04]  Henri Beauchamp: Greetings.
[2013/03/14 15:04]  Maestro Linden: /me was installing the SSB viewer
[2013/03/14 15:04]  Monty Linden: there will be crashes
[2013/03/14 15:04]  Blake Burger: Hey Nix, i Seen you noticed that issue was resolved and i have used the viewer for the past week well building and uploading mesh with only noticing one hiccup on the mesh preview box when doing an upload. :)
[2013/03/14 15:04]  Monty Linden: hello tank
[2013/03/14 15:04]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Hello, Rex.
[2013/03/14 15:04]  Maestro Linden: Let's get started
[2013/03/14 15:04]  Maestro Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group#Agenda
[2013/03/14 15:04]  Rex Cronon: hi yuzuru
[2013/03/14 15:05]  Maestro Linden: We have a bunch of different announcements today
[2013/03/14 15:05]  Maestro Linden: first, I'll get the Agni updates out of the way
[2013/03/14 15:05]  Maestro Linden: The SLS channel got the threaded object rez project
[2013/03/14 15:06]  Maestro Linden: So sim performance should be improved when there is heavy object rezzing in a region
[2013/03/14 15:06]  Maestro Linden: Release_Notes/Second_Life_Server/13#13.03.04.271238
[2013/03/14 15:06]  Rex Cronon: something borked here? i just detached something and i crashed
[2013/03/14 15:06]  Maestro Linden: er
[2013/03/14 15:06]  Maestro Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Server/13#13.03.04.271238
[2013/03/14 15:06]  Nal (nalates.urriah): Would that include avatars with lots of attachments?
[2013/03/14 15:08]  Maestro Linden: Just checked, the answer is yes
[2013/03/14 15:09]  Nal (nalates.urriah): Yay! Thx
[2013/03/14 15:09]  Maestro Linden: Mostly, the performance improvements should be with mesh objects
[2013/03/14 15:09]  Maestro Linden: meanwhile, in RC land,
[2013/03/14 15:09]  Lucia Nightfire: does it facilitate griefer spam too? heh
[2013/03/14 15:10]  Maestro Linden: it should frustrate griefers since the SimFPS should be better when they try to grief by rezzing
[2013/03/14 15:10]  Maestro Linden: BlueSteel and LeTigre got a new maint-server project, which only has a single bug fix
[2013/03/14 15:10]  Maestro Linden: the bug fix is to fix a fairly common crash mode
[2013/03/14 15:10]  Lucia Nightfire: idt most look for lag, as much as bulk spam, heh
[2013/03/14 15:11]  Rex Cronon: u guys make grifieng boring:)
[2013/03/14 15:11]  Maestro Linden: and Magnum got the same maint-server project as last week,
[2013/03/14 15:11]  Hope Dreier: right on for griefing being boring
[2013/03/14 15:11]  Lucia Nightfire: those with nothing better to do would argue that
[2013/03/14 15:11]  Maestro Linden: the only change in Magnum (aside from inheriting the same object rez changes as SLS) is this:
[2013/03/14 15:11]  Maestro Linden: Fixed '"User not online" standard message sent with each post in an IM from a Magnum region' (BUG-1884[c]) by removing the VWR-786[c] fix.
[2013/03/14 15:12]  Willow Wilder: Thanks for that!!
[2013/03/14 15:12]  Maestro Linden: compared to last week's Magnum, I mean
[2013/03/14 15:12]  Hope Dreier: Thank you for thinking that
[2013/03/14 15:12]  Maestro Linden: We'll have to go back to the drawing board on VWR-786
[2013/03/14 15:13]  Maestro Linden: In Aditi news, we have a round of interest list fixes coming up (probably for RC next week)
[2013/03/14 15:13]  Maestro Linden: which includes a few important fixes:
[2013/03/14 15:13]  Maestro Linden: * Fix an interest list issue where you 'lose track' of a vehicle after region crossing
[2013/03/14 15:14]  Maestro Linden: * Fix an interest list issue where off-camera objects would suddenly 'snap' into place when you turned your camera. Off-camera object updates will now be sent at a low rate (instead of not at all)
[2013/03/14 15:15]  Maestro Linden: * Fix an interest list issue with 'sim teleporters', where an object who got moved by a 'teleporter' object would still appear at the original position to other avatars
[2013/03/14 15:16]  Maestro Linden: Also, there are some improvements for object loading in the interest list
[2013/03/14 15:16]  Maestro Linden: Sandbox testing passed, so it should come to RC next week
[2013/03/14 15:17]  Maestro Linden: Also, Nyx is planning another server-side baking test after this meeting
[2013/03/14 15:17]  Inara Pey: Do we have an update on the Aditi regions where the interest list work can be tested?
[2013/03/14 15:17]  Blake Burger: awesome :)
[2013/03/14 15:17]  Inara Pey: Andrew mentioned Solariam on Tues, but concerns were raised over that being Adult rated (access, etc.)
[2013/03/14 15:17]  Henri Beauchamp: Anything new about SUN-38 ?
[2013/03/14 15:18]  Maestro Linden: Solariam and Tischeriidae (adjacent regions) are both on DRTSIM-200, which has those interest list bugfixes, Inara
[2013/03/14 15:18]  Maestro Linden: Tischeriidae is moderate
[2013/03/14 15:18]  Inara Pey: Thanks, Maestro ‚òª
[2013/03/14 15:19]  Maestro Linden: Nyx might know, Henri
[2013/03/14 15:19]  Nyx Tester: nothing new to report Henri
[2013/03/14 15:20]  Henri Beauchamp: Alright
[2013/03/14 15:20]  Maestro Linden: For the SSB pile-on test, the viewer installers are here: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Project_Sunshine-Server_Side_Appearance#Source_code_.26_build_links
[2013/03/14 15:21]  Maestro Linden: Nyx, did you have anything to add at this point?
[2013/03/14 15:21]  Nyx Tester: Nope, just make sure you're running that viewer if you're here for the pile-on test, preferably with a clear cache
[2013/03/14 15:21]  Maestro Linden: Okay, cool.
[2013/03/14 15:22]  Nyx Tester: I'll be happy to take over once the remaining business is concluded
[2013/03/14 15:22]  Maestro Linden: Finally, Monty has a boatload of information about the upcoming simulator HTTP changes, which are making their way to Aditi
[2013/03/14 15:22]  Maestro Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group#HTTP_updates_to_simulator.2C_from_Monty
[2013/03/14 15:22]  Lucia Nightfire: heh, read buttload for a sec
[2013/03/14 15:24]  Monty Linden: ah, I have the talking stick?
[2013/03/14 15:24]  Maestro Linden: Oh yes, you do!
[2013/03/14 15:24]  Monty Linden: So, the first three channels and regions for DRTSIM-203 are up.
[2013/03/14 15:24]  Monty Linden: The DRTSIM-203 channel is what is targeted for Agni.
[2013/03/14 15:25]  Monty Linden: Keepalive connections on some but not all HTTP activity.
[2013/03/14 15:25]  Monty Linden: Some asset header changes to correctly identify asset types.
[2013/03/14 15:25]  Monty Linden: The test region, TextureTest2, has about 5-6000 textures, no meshes,
[2013/03/14 15:25]  Monty Linden: no scripts, and a nice landing point.
[2013/03/14 15:26]  Monty Linden: Viewer devs and anyone interested can test download behavior
[2013/03/14 15:26]  Monty Linden: and general functionality there.
[2013/03/14 15:26]  Monty Linden: It isn't a sandbox area so you can't build.
[2013/03/14 15:26]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Is TextureText at ADITI?
[2013/03/14 15:26]  Monty Linden: More regions will show up as soon as we can make them.
[2013/03/14 15:26]  Monty Linden: TextureTest2 at aditi
[2013/03/14 15:26]  Maestro Linden: All are Aditi at this point.
[2013/03/14 15:27]  Maestro Linden: /me clarifies that in the wiki..
[2013/03/14 15:27]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Thank you I can find it.
[2013/03/14 15:27]  Monty Linden: To prevent interference, this region has limited residency.
[2013/03/14 15:27]  Monty Linden: I think it is set to 3 currently.
[2013/03/14 15:27]  Monty Linden: So a line may form.
[2013/03/14 15:27]  Script & Memory Use Scale Counter: Total Scripts: 0
 Total Memory: 0k
[2013/03/14 15:27]  Script & Memory Use Scale Counter: Congratulations! Script weight under 3 mb.
[2013/03/14 15:28]  Monty Linden: Sandbox areas will be more open to encourage agent density.
[2013/03/14 15:28]  Monty Linden: There are two additional channels.
[2013/03/14 15:28]  Monty Linden: DRTSIM-203H (Happy) and DRTSim-203A (Angry)
[2013/03/14 15:28]  Monty Linden: Each with a copy of the TextureTest2 region.
[2013/03/14 15:29]  Monty Linden: 203H is 'the good witch'
[2013/03/14 15:29]  Monty Linden: more generous provisioning
[2013/03/14 15:29]  Monty Linden: all http traffic gets keepalive opportunities
[2013/03/14 15:29]  Monty Linden: higher throttle limits
[2013/03/14 15:29]  Monty Linden: it is a test of what next steps beyond drtsim-203 might run like
[2013/03/14 15:30]  Monty Linden: TPV devs and scripters should hit it, as well
[2013/03/14 15:30]  Monty Linden: 203A is 'the bad witch'
[2013/03/14 15:30]  Monty Linden: it is running with restrictions and enforcement that will
[2013/03/14 15:30]  Monty Linden: generate a lot of 502 and 503 errors.
[2013/03/14 15:30]  Monty Linden: These are okay in testing.
[2013/03/14 15:30]  Monty Linden: What we are interested in is the ability of viewers (SL and TPV)
[2013/03/14 15:31]  Henri Beauchamp: Monty: will there be any update to the httpcore library or is the current one suitable for testing keepalive & stuff in those sims already ?
[2013/03/14 15:31]  Monty Linden: and scripts to recover from these errors.
[2013/03/14 15:31]  Monty Linden: Such enforcement policies, if they can be tolerated, might
[2013/03/14 15:31]  Monty Linden: allow other limits to be increased. But only if we trust
[2013/03/14 15:31]  Monty Linden: the ability of external software (viewers, scripts) to recover.
[2013/03/14 15:31]  Monty Linden: (reading chat)
[2013/03/14 15:31]  Rex Cronon: how many keep-alive connections will the viewer use?
[2013/03/14 15:32]  Monty Linden: Henri, current one is fine
[2013/03/14 15:32]  Rex Cronon: min/max?
[2013/03/14 15:32]  Monty Linden: what was released with SL 3.4.3 will take advantage of this
[2013/03/14 15:32]  Monty Linden: the viewer isn't really constrained yet
[2013/03/14 15:32]  Monty Linden: it discovers
[2013/03/14 15:32]  Monty Linden: and the servers are dynamic in their response to conditions
[2013/03/14 15:33]  Monty Linden: the difference is that 203 and 203H regions disconnect after completing requests which
[2013/03/14 15:33]  Monty Linden: looks like traditional behavior
[2013/03/14 15:33]  Monty Linden: 203A will slap down a connection before it can make a request
[2013/03/14 15:33]  Monty Linden: I'll be data gathering behind the scenes but what
[2013/03/14 15:34]  Monty Linden: happens on the outside I can't see.
[2013/03/14 15:34]  Monty Linden: Want to hear anecdotes.
[2013/03/14 15:34]  Monty Linden: See log files.
[2013/03/14 15:34]  Monty Linden: Get impressings.
[2013/03/14 15:34]  Henri Beauchamp: Where can we post the logs ?
[2013/03/14 15:34]  Monty Linden: Yuzuru, you should use TextureTest2 and TextureTest2H for your
[2013/03/14 15:34]  Maestro Linden: What's the best way for them to reach you for feedback?
[2013/03/14 15:34]  Monty Linden: UDP/TCP comparison.
[2013/03/14 15:34]  Monty Linden: I'm flexible.
[2013/03/14 15:35]  Monty Linden: whatever is fast/convenient for you.
[2013/03/14 15:35]  Monty Linden: email to monty@
[2013/03/14 15:35]  Monty Linden: jira
[2013/03/14 15:35]  Monty Linden: (grr)
[2013/03/14 15:35]  Monty Linden: I've even been spending time in the forums lately.
[2013/03/14 15:35]  Script & Memory Use Scale Counter: Total Scripts: 0
 Total Memory: 0k
[2013/03/14 15:35]  Script & Memory Use Scale Counter: Congratulations! Script weight under 3 mb.
[2013/03/14 15:35]  Monty Linden: When testing 203A, I'm less interested in the errors.
[2013/03/14 15:36]  Monty Linden: I guarantee you will get a flood of them.
[2013/03/14 15:36]  Nal (nalates.urriah): That's brave
[2013/03/14 15:36]  Monty Linden: (See notes on wiki.)
[2013/03/14 15:36]  Monty Linden: It is the ability of viewers and scripts to recover that is interesting.
[2013/03/14 15:36]  Monty Linden: 203A will underperform, that is intentional.
[2013/03/14 15:36]  Monty Linden: I'm using the forum to develop my patience
[2013/03/14 15:37]  Willow Wilder: good luck with that
[2013/03/14 15:37]  Monty Linden: that's the basics
[2013/03/14 15:37]  Monty Linden: questions, comments, criticisms?
[2013/03/14 15:37]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): working with inefficient code isnt enough?
[2013/03/14 15:37]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): :D
[2013/03/14 15:37]  Monty Linden: The challenge in this has been to back up the server
[2013/03/14 15:38]  Monty Linden: side and get it pointed in another direction without having
[2013/03/14 15:38]  Monty Linden: to knock down performance during a transition period.
[2013/03/14 15:38]  Monty Linden: I'm still not confident.
[2013/03/14 15:38]  Monty Linden: Aditi will tell me something but the full-grid holistic
[2013/03/14 15:38]  Monty Linden: behavior is another thing.
[2013/03/14 15:38]  Monty Linden: TPVs, HTTP-In, griefing, Mesh
[2013/03/14 15:39]  Monty Linden: beyond my abilitiy to simulate or predict so this is our
[2013/03/14 15:39]  Monty Linden: chance to find anything startling before RC.
[2013/03/14 15:40]  Rex Cronon: what do u think that is most likely to go wrong?
[2013/03/14 15:40]  Monty Linden: Expect sandbox and mesh regions to show up.
[2013/03/14 15:40]  Monty Linden: we will announce.
[2013/03/14 15:40]  Monty Linden: the mesh uploader has been making me cry
[2013/03/14 15:40]  Monty Linden: really
[2013/03/14 15:40]  Monty Linden: OMG, the thing needs work.
[2013/03/14 15:41]  Monty Linden: (hey, somebody hijacked my keyboard)
[2013/03/14 15:41]  Henri Beauchamp: /me chuckles.
[2013/03/14 15:41]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): thats what she said
[2013/03/14 15:42]  Monty Linden: any thing more? I know everyone wants to break the avatar oven.
[2013/03/14 15:43]  Monty Linden: Rex: excessive 503 maybe
[2013/03/14 15:43]  Lucia Nightfire: get out of GM Maestro, lol
[2013/03/14 15:43]  Hope Dreier: sunshineLsL?
[2013/03/14 15:43]  Monty Linden: Inabilitiy to connect to HTTP services.
[2013/03/14 15:43]  Monty Linden: HTTP-In needing to retry more than usual.
[2013/03/14 15:43]  Rex Cronon: in rl when u bake something, it something it has very good chances of getting burned. i hope that won't happen with baked textures;)
[2013/03/14 15:43]  Monty Linden: (Those are my candidates for problems.)
[2013/03/14 15:44]  Rex Cronon: it sometimes has very*
[2013/03/14 15:46]  Rex Cronon: now. if u can't connect to http services that means no textures will download. right? are prims/sculpties/meshes affected too?
[2013/03/14 15:46]  Henri Beauchamp: No, there's a fallback to UDP fetches
[2013/03/14 15:47]  Maestro Linden: For textures, yes
[2013/03/14 15:47]  Maestro Linden: No fallback for mesh
[2013/03/14 15:47]  Henri Beauchamp: And prims/scuplties/meshes do not yet use the new HTTP core
[2013/03/14 15:47]  Kennylex Luckless: How late was I to this meeting?
[2013/03/14 15:47]  Monty Linden: sculpties and meshes, yes
[2013/03/14 15:47]  Maestro Linden: 47min
[2013/03/14 15:48]  Whirly Fizzle: Mesh renders with HTTP textures disabled though. Does mesh ignore that setting in the viewer?
[2013/03/14 15:48]  Monty Linden: but also inventory (scary), display names, tp, other functions
[2013/03/14 15:48]  Monty Linden: mesh is always http
[2013/03/14 15:48]  Monty Linden: no other path
[2013/03/14 15:48]  Henri Beauchamp: Yes, but it's standard LLCurl, not httpcore, Monty...
[2013/03/14 15:49]  Monty Linden: today
[2013/03/14 15:49]  Rex Cronon: if this doesn't work right it can be a dissa
[2013/03/14 15:49]  Henri Beauchamp: So, no keepalive
[2013/03/14 15:49]  Rex Cronon: disaster*
[2013/03/14 15:49]  Lucia Nightfire: [15:48:56] llCastRay() test (AGENTS): e1a51880-d7b5-4c00-800d-91664f5b84c0|<202.098000, 199.365500, 33.494840>|1 castray hits Lindens in GM, nice info
[2013/03/14 15:49]  Monty Linden: actually, mesh is asking for keepalives
[2013/03/14 15:49]  Monty Linden: I had to do extra work to prevent them from being granted
[2013/03/14 15:49]  Henri Beauchamp: With LLCurl ?
[2013/03/14 15:49]  Monty Linden: the reason being that mesh will launch too many concurrent
[2013/03/14 15:50]  Monty Linden: connections and it is absolute death to services, consumer
[2013/03/14 15:50]  Monty Linden: routers and other infrastructure.
[2013/03/14 15:50]  Monty Linden: Yeah, llcurl asks for keepalives.
[2013/03/14 15:50]  Rex Cronon: why does it need keep alive. once the viewer gets the mesh, is not like u can edit it in world
[2013/03/14 15:50]  Monty Linden: Non-mesh, non-texture code that uses http will actually get a boost from this.
[2013/03/14 15:51]  Monty Linden: keepalive is about getting the next (of 100's or 1000's of things).
[2013/03/14 15:51]  Monty Linden: and after that, supporting pipelining.
[2013/03/14 15:51]  Monty Linden: but that's the future
[2013/03/14 15:52]  Henri Beauchamp: What about SPDY ?
[2013/03/14 15:53]  Monty Linden: a future future
[2013/03/14 15:53]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): IPV6? :P
[2013/03/14 15:53]  Henri Beauchamp: /me chuckles.
[2013/03/14 15:53]  Monty Linden: there's no such thing
[2013/03/14 15:54]  Monty Linden: if it doesn't go through a wrt54g, it isn't real
[2013/03/14 15:54]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): lol
[2013/03/14 15:54]  Kennylex Luckless: wrt54gl?
[2013/03/14 15:54]  Maestro Linden: Hm, making services IPv6 only would eliminate most of our crappy router problems.. :P
[2013/03/14 15:55]  Monty Linden: or DECnet
[2013/03/14 15:55]  Monty Linden: that would fix it too
[2013/03/14 15:55]  Hope Dreier: LOL
[2013/03/14 15:55]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): hehe
[2013/03/14 15:55]  Hope Dreier: require full GOSSIP
[2013/03/14 15:56]  Monty Linden: pile-on?
[2013/03/14 15:56]  Maestro Linden: Alright, we should probably wrap things up, so that people have a chance to set up for the SSB pile-on
[2013/03/14 15:56]  Nal (nalates.urriah): yes
[2013/03/14 15:56]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): SSA!
[2013/03/14 15:56]  Rex Cronon: cool. so u can run sl through a wrt54gl. i am glad ll endorses it;)
[2013/03/14 15:56]  Nyx Tester: alright! everyone ready? :)
[2013/03/14 15:56]  Maestro Linden: Next week, Kelly will explain how I have a 0 script AO on my avatar
[2013/03/14 15:56]  Hope Dreier: Yes
[2013/03/14 15:57]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): thx for your time and info, monty
[2013/03/14 15:57]  Willow Wilder: ready
[2013/03/14 15:57]  Nal (nalates.urriah): O.O
[2013/03/14 15:57]  Nyx Tester: if you have the right viewer running right now, TP over to sunshineSLS region - my clone will meet you over there
[2013/03/14 15:57]  Inara Pey: Thanks, Monty
[2013/03/14 15:57]  Maestro Linden: should we clear cache and relog there directly nyx?
[2013/03/14 15:57]  Monty Linden: yw, all
[2013/03/14 15:57]  Nal (nalates.urriah): I'm relogging then there
[2013/03/14 15:57]  Maestro Linden: Sounds good
[2013/03/14 15:57]  Nyx Tester: if you've cleared cache recently you should be fine.
[2013/03/14 15:57]  Nyx Tester: if not, clear cache and relog
[2013/03/14 15:57]  Rex Cronon: tc everybody and have a fine day