Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2013-04-04

Agenda under discussion: 16:02, 4 April 2013

[14:55]  Jenna Felton: hello all
[14:56]  Whirly Fizzle: Hmm I see you fine. Im on a SSB viewer though
[14:56]  Whirly Fizzle: But everyone else is okay too, so...
[14:56]  Whirly Fizzle: No SSB here, z offset works lol
[14:57]  Lucia Nightfire: isn't z offset mainly for shoe height offset, heh
[14:57]  Lucia Nightfire: I don't recall needing to use it
[14:58]  Script & Memory Use Scale Counter: Total Scripts: 267
 Total Memory: 4272k
[14:58]  Script & Memory Use Scale Counter: Overweight! Script weight over 3 mb.
[14:58]  Whirly Fizzle: ouch lol
[14:58]  Jenna Felton: no idea where they are in
[14:58]  Lucia Nightfire: 3mb beign overweight, heh
[14:59]  Whirly Fizzle: I just about died when I saw my fave old prim nails had 260 odd scripts in lol
[14:59]  Jenna Felton: hehe
[15:00]  Inara Pey: Hey, folks
[15:00]  Whirly Fizzle: Hai Inara!
[15:00]  Jenna Felton: hi Inara
[15:00]  MartinRJ Fayray: Hi Inara
[15:02]  Lucia Nightfire: incoming Lindens
[15:02]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): Good afternoon
[15:02]  Motor Loon: /bling off
[15:02]  Kennylex Luckless: Hello
[15:02]  Inara Pey: Hey, Kelly
[15:02]  Blake Burger: sup Kelly
[15:02]  Whirly Fizzle: hih that was weird the way your attachments rezzed in
[15:02]  Kennylex Luckless: You did almost fool me, no blue dot in map?
[15:02]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Hello, Kelly.
[15:02]  Rex Cronon: hello eerybody
[15:03]  MartinRJ Fayray: Hello Kelly Linden!
[15:03]  Whirly Fizzle: At least they rezzed :D
[15:03]  Lucia Nightfire: I see him blue
[15:03]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): New viewer 3.5 has come.
[15:03]  Whirly Fizzle: CHUUUIIIIIII
[15:03]  Kennylex Luckless: Well, as long as I see the bling.
[15:03]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Japanese IM window was diplaying far from chat window..
[15:04]  Margithe: are we short on the Lindens today?
[15:04]  Rex Cronon: didn't u hear? the new viewer introduces a bling tax;)
[15:04]  Whirly Fizzle: Serverside baking stuff just dropped in v- dev too
[15:05]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): Maestro is out today, as is Simon. I believe that leaves me to lead things.
[15:05]  Jenna Felton: ah
[15:06]  Jenna Felton: sorry for adding stuff to the agenda n last minit
[15:06]  Jenna Felton: last minute
[15:06]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): Unfortunately it doesn't look like Maestro updated the agenda (http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group#Agenda)
[15:08]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): Sorry for the stall here.
[15:08]  Rex Cronon: sometimes even the transcripts don't get updated:(
[15:08]  Blake Burger: its ok take your time :)
[15:09]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): This week we promoted the interest list fixes taht were on Magnum.
[15:10]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): The maintenance bug fixes on BlueSteel and LeTigre picked up a crash fix and the interest list changes
[15:10]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): Magnum picked up some of Monty's HTTP changes
[15:12]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): Any questions or topics related to this weeks releases before we jump to Jenna's topics?
[15:12]  Whirly Fizzle: I was wondering if anyone had ideas yet of what was going on with all the missing objects reports since Turesdays roll?
[15:13]  Inara Pey: Just the apparent increasing ....wut Whirly said....
[15:13]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): Where are those reports?
[15:13]  Rex Cronon: how do objects go missing?
[15:13]  Inara Pey: Missing prims in linksets
[15:13]  Whirly Fizzle: From maestros tests, it looks like it points to a viewer issue but it dramatically increased after the roll
[15:13]  Nal (nalates.urriah): Not rendering...
[15:13]  Nicc (niccole.inglewood): Ive noticed high ping on some sims and normal on others since tuesday
[15:14]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): No rolls are done on Thursdays. What roll do you mean?
[15:14]  Margithe: Oh right. People rez without their attachemnts on, right?
[15:14]  Whirly Fizzle: See message 15 onwards on http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Second-Life-Server/Deploys-for-the-week-of-2013-04-01/td-p/1954059/page/2
[15:14]  Whirly Fizzle: Maestro gave some tests to try
[15:14]  Whirly Fizzle: *Ruesday sorry. Typo
[15:14]  Whirly Fizzle: OMG Tuesday lol
[15:14]  Nal (nalates.urriah): Marg, this is mostly linkset items not rendering.
[15:15]  Inara Pey: Typical example: http://modemworld.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/missing-prims_001.jpg
[15:15]  Margithe: I see. Thats been an old bug though.
[15:15]  Whirly Fizzle: It is BUT it exploded after the last roll
[15:15]  Inara Pey: Yup, but it appears to have dramatically increased in frequency since Tuesday's deployment
[15:15]  Rex Cronon: so, objects are not actually missing. they r not rendered. does this happen only to attachments?
[15:16]  Jenna Felton: perhaps something related to the interest list than
[15:16]  Inara Pey: Attachments and in-world objects, Rex
[15:16]  Whirly Fizzle: Its rezzed prims mostly. Arrachments are also dissappearing after TP, but that may be something else
[15:16]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): That would have been the promotion of the interest list fixes.
[15:16]  Whirly Fizzle: *Attachments
[15:16]  Whirly Fizzle: Yeah
[15:16]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): I'll make sure others are aware of it.
[15:16]  Inara Pey: That's what I ws going to ask, Jenna, whether the interest list updates had been looked at to see if they've lead to the viewer side issue becoming more noticeable.
[15:17]  Rex Cronon: for a sec i thought that houe had a glass roof:)
[15:17]  Margithe: Ok, so it's two separate problems then
[15:17]  Whirly Fizzle: Trigger sounds are also not playing from objects that rez out of view - that seems new since the roll.
[15:17]  Rex Cronon: house*
[15:18]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): Please encourage people to file bug reports in jira. We regularly triage those issues and it is the best way to surface bugs like this.
[15:18]  Whirly Fizzle: Yeah, Ill file that. Was literally just before this meeting someone eported it to Firestorm JIRA & I reprod it
[15:18]  Rex Cronon: it seem that house has a whole flor missing. is like the parts missing are linked together
[15:18]  Margithe: We don't like filing jiras when we don't see if it's been filed already or not. Thank you.
[15:18]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): Whirly - is it viewer specific?
[15:19]  Whirly Fizzle: I reprod on Firestorm, I will test on V3 before I file
[15:19]  Whirly Fizzle: Dont have my repro gun here :D
[15:19]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): Thanks Whirly.
[15:20]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): All right, lets move on to Jenna's questions then.
[15:20]  Jenna Felton: thank you :)
[15:21]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): The server has supported overriding animations for over a year. The missing piece was the LSL calls and a couple bug fixes. It is expected that once overridden they would continue to be overridden on older servers.
[15:21]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): Give or take the couple of bug fixes.
[15:21]  Jenna Felton: than the animations are populated by the server, not the viewer?
[15:21]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): It is not true that the viewer stores them - these are stored on the server.
[15:21]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): Correct.
[15:22]  Jenna Felton: than #2 is answered too :)
[15:22]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): The new override functions do not allow setting by UUID
[15:23]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): My original version (well over a year old) set by integer constants. However there was some desire internally to make the system more flexible, to allow for different states or modifying the state machine diagram, and for that string constants were used.
[15:23]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): Right now those string constants are converted to integer constants for use in the existing internal state machine
[15:24]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): Typing and Swimming are not part of the animation state machine on the server, neither are idle animations for example.
[15:24]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): These LSL functions are a *very* thin access layer to the server's animation state machine for each agent.
[15:24]  Jenna Felton: ok, sounds reasonable than
[15:25]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): The parts of animation that are handled else where (typing) or on the viewer only (idling) aren't covered. I'm not sure which case swimming fits in.
[15:25]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): I think that covers the questions?
[15:26]  Jenna Felton: yes, it does
[15:26]  Jenna Felton: thank you for answering
[15:26]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): You are welcome.
[15:26]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): The table is now open for other discussion.
[15:26]  Jenna Felton: should i remove the topics from the agenda or should it stay until Maestro changes the agenda for next time?
[15:27]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): Either way.
[15:28]  Margithe: Nothing new on the particles?
[15:29]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): My personal opinion is that it was premature to discuss the particle changes.
[15:29]  Margithe: (wrong meeting maybe >.>)
[15:29]  Jenna Felton: the particles are probably need another viewer
[15:30]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): The server support for them is out with the animation override changes actually. You can totally go to a letigre region and make particle systems no one can see.
[15:30]  Jenna Felton: i have not played with them yet.
[15:30]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): No viewer is available yet that will render particle systems that use those new features.
[15:30]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): And, unfortunately, I don't have any information on when one will be available.
[15:30]  Jenna Felton: so this is reason not many can tel something about them :)
[15:31]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): :)
[15:31]  Margithe: Kelly, we are none the less happy to hear about upcomming things, prematurely or not.
[15:31]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): I have seen them and they look very awesome.
[15:32]  Whirly Fizzle: Good for bling? ;)
[15:32]  Margithe: bling chains XD
[15:32]  Jenna Felton: when we discuss particle system, i woul like to be able to make another object a particle source than one that bursts the particles
[15:32]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): Glowing, better alpha blended, trailing bling!!
[15:32]  Whirly Fizzle: Oh Gods lol
[15:34]  Jenna Felton: by now i have to rezz an invisible prim that bursts particles and move it to the coordinates of the source i want have. would be just nice to set the source in particle params even an avatar, and the particles come from that object or avatar, even if the object that generates the particles is 40m away
[15:35]  Lucia Nightfire: heh, I know how that could be abused, but then I guess everything can be these days
[15:35]  Jenna Felton: hope my speech is readable...
[15:36]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): It gets a bit gnarly with permissions especially if you let a script modify an object it isn't in.
[15:36]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): We don't have plans currently to allow that kind of behavior. And having a particle effect is a parameter of the object.
[15:37]  Jenna Felton: ok, than i stay on invisible bursters
[15:37]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): An alternative may be specifying a position as the source for the particle. There may be some possibility there but if the distance is too far from the source than interest list stuff gets wonky too
[15:37]  Margithe: not to mention you could spam your neighbours in new, unpredictible ways
[15:38]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): yeah, that too
[15:38]  Lucia Nightfire: I was explicitly referring to target pos particle creation, heh
[15:38]  Jenna Felton: yes this is possible (both)
[15:38]  Rex Cronon: so u make somebodys head pop particles:)
[15:39]  Jenna Felton: hehe
[15:39]  Lucia Nightfire: Rex went under the bar
[15:39]  Rex Cronon: ?
[15:39]  Lucia Nightfire: theres alto worse you can do with targeted pos particle creation
[15:39]  Lucia Nightfire: *a lot
[15:40]  Jenna Felton: i was working on a device that redreses the avatar like in a magic spell. and wanted cover them by particle cloud for the PG case. and have to move the cover ball very fast because the avatar can move around :)
[15:40]  Jenna Felton: so to prevent lag by sensor i thought, would be nice to make the partilces update themselves
[15:42]  Jenna Felton: "very fast" i mean have a fast sensor and move very often
[15:42]  Lucia Nightfire: you don't need sensor if you already have a target though
[15:43]  Jenna Felton: you mean bust on one place and target the avatar?
[15:43]  Jenna Felton: i have to test that
[15:43]  Lucia Nightfire: I mean llGetObjectDetails()
[15:43]  Margithe: (btw, does anyone else get a rez issue on Rex witch hat?)
[15:44]  Jenna Felton: ok, but i must call the function every 0.5s, which is quite often
[15:44]  Lucia Nightfire: yeah, don't see it
[15:44]  Lucia Nightfire: thats fine for llGOD()
[15:44]  Lucia Nightfire: llGOD() is resilient
[15:44]  Lucia Nightfire: much better than when it came out
[15:44]  Lucia Nightfire: which would fail 1/3 of the time
[15:45]  Jenna Felton: no hat on Rex, either
[15:45]  Jenna Felton: jusst 2 planes
[15:45]  Whirly Fizzle: Broken hat
[15:45]  Rex Cronon: lol. long ago my hat got borked. that borkage was even a topic of discussion at this oh. i think when i went to test server baking, i used the old borked hat
[15:46]  Jenna Felton: server side baking should not affet attachments i thnk
[15:46]  Rex Cronon: or maybe the server decided to bork it again
[15:46]  Jenna Felton: affect*
[15:47]  Lucia Nightfire: was it an asset you uploaded here?
[15:47]  Lucia Nightfire: on aditi
[15:47]  Rex Cronon: was imported from the main
[15:47]  Rex Cronon: i didn't upload it here
[15:48]  Rex Cronon: it was a know database borkage
[15:48]  Rex Cronon: known*
[15:49]  Margithe: Btw, a question- when crossing a sim boundary between two different server versions, and you get propelled x amount of meters (and then snap back most of them), what is the avatar position?
[15:50]  Lucia Nightfire: <roll the dice, roll the dice, roll the dice>
[15:50]  Margithe: does it move really as it appears, and rubberband back, or does it stop at the border?
[15:50]  Jenna Felton: hehe
[15:50]  Lucia Nightfire: <D4,D6,D8>
[15:50]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): The viewer continues to interpolate with a very simple algorithm, and then adjusts when it hears the new position from the new region
[15:51]  Margithe: Hmm... ok..
[15:51]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): Ideally when crossing you "enter" the region at a position that matches that interpolation. The rubber banding happens when there are bugs in that.
[15:51]  Margithe: I had a couple of encounters with a security orb that teleported me back, after rubberbanding.
[15:53]  Margithe: But i haven't had time to test it properly, neighbour moved :P
[15:53]  Jenna Felton: i think you find soon another test place if oyu go over mainland
[15:54]  Jenna Felton: you*
[15:55]  Margithe: nah, it must have been something else i think.
[15:55]  Margithe: just a coincidence.
[15:56]  Jenna Felton: a place near the sim border, secured by an orb. Or 2 objects, one attached one rezzed, both request your position 2 times a seconnd
[15:56]  Jenna Felton: and compare results
[15:56]  Lucia Nightfire: why
[15:57]  MartinRJ Fayray: Can you tell me a way how to determine whether a bug is a viewer bug or an interest list bug?
[15:57]  Jenna Felton: to see if attached script gets another result because it changes region. rezzed scripts stays on same region while you change the sim
[15:58]  Whirly Fizzle: Are there any regions on Aditi running without all the interest list changes?
[15:59]  Lucia Nightfire: go toa region with draw at min and see if teh region terrain fully loads or not, heh
[15:59]  Lucia Nightfire: and I mean the entire terrain for teh region
[16:00]  Whirly Fizzle: Id rather just have a region name :D
[16:00]  Lucia Nightfire: yeah, same
[16:00]  Rex Cronon: try sandbox weaponstesting:)
[16:00]  Lucia Nightfire: is that even on aditi?
[16:00]  Whirly Fizzle: Id rather not get crashed lol
[16:00]  Rex Cronon: yes
[16:01]  Lucia Nightfire: not seeing it
[16:01]  Rex Cronon: here u usually don't et crashedthere
[16:01]  Rex Cronon: don't get*
[16:01]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): Sorry whirly I don't really know
[16:01]  Whirly Fizzle: No worries
[16:01]  Lucia Nightfire: plan B Whirls, heh
[16:01]  Rex Cronon: i g2g. tc everybody. have a nice day all:)
[16:02]  Rex Cronon: bye kelly
[16:02]  Margithe: /me waves bye bye to everyone
[16:02]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): Byte, thanks everyone for coming out.
[16:02]  Whirly Fizzle: Thanks Kelly
[16:02]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Thank you, Kelly.
[16:03]  Inara Pey: Thanks, Kelly
[16:03]  MartinRJ Fayray: Goodbye
[16:03]  Jenna Felton: yes, thank you Kelly
[16:03]  fuse McGinnis: Bye kelly and thanks
[16:03]  Lares Carter: Thanks Kelly
[16:03]  Second Life: MartinRJ Fayray is offline.
[16:04]  Lucia Nightfire: lets see if there are any noninterest list regions
[16:04]  Lucia Nightfire: uninterest list
[16:04]  Jenna Felton: hard to tell if there is one or if the one you are on is non-interestlist
[16:06]  Jenna Felton: have a good time all, too