Beta server office Hours/Minutes/2017-04-06

[2017/04/06 15:01]  Jenna Felton: hello Caleb :)
[2017/04/06 15:02]  Caleb the Cable Guy (caleb.linden): hi jenna, hi all
[2017/04/06 15:02]  NOPE (margithe): i'm SO not stress-testing SL segregation.
[2017/04/06 15:02]  Duckie Dickins: as a dot commer of the past I understand the whys but I do thing she's right. You're gong to incite the villages into taking up torches and pitchforks.
[2017/04/06 15:03]  Duckie Dickins: villagers
[2017/04/06 15:03]  Jenna Felton: impresive
[2017/04/06 15:04]  Duckie Dickins: well hell is it strange avatar day or something?
[2017/04/06 15:04]  NOPE (margithe): when people figure out how it works, that it's actually not an improvement, it's going to se too late. Well, it's already too late, why am i wasting my breath again >.<
[2017/04/06 15:04]  Jenna Felton: "gudnaabend" on phanterian
[2017/04/06 15:04]  arton Rotaru: it's animal day
[2017/04/06 15:04]  arton Rotaru: Gunaaaabend
[2017/04/06 15:04]  Jenna Felton: :)
[2017/04/06 15:05]  NOPE (margithe): Are we officially starting?
[2017/04/06 15:05]  Mazidox Linden: Yeah, it's 5 minutes past, let's get started.
[2017/04/06 15:07]  Mazidox Linden: Sorry, trying to sort a bunch of stuff at once
[2017/04/06 15:07]  Mazidox Linden: Anyway!
[2017/04/06 15:07]  Caleb the Cable Guy (caleb.linden): easy things first
[2017/04/06 15:07]  Mazidox Linden: DRTSIM-343 is on RC.
[2017/04/06 15:07]  Mazidox Linden: We've talked about this before
[2017/04/06 15:08]  arton Rotaru: I'm easy as sunday morning
[2017/04/06 15:08]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): give us a recap/filler episode
[2017/04/06 15:08]  Mazidox Linden: DRTSIM-343 allows an estate owner to require that Allow Public Access is set at the parcel level.
[2017/04/06 15:09]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): forces it to change or overrides it?
[2017/04/06 15:09]  Mazidox Linden: Can you clarify the difference in your mind Lucia?
[2017/04/06 15:09]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): /me noms the toast
[2017/04/06 15:09]  Grumpity Linden: heh
[2017/04/06 15:09]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): [15:08:42] Mazidox Linden: DRTSIM-343 allows an estate owner to require that Allow Public Access is set at the parcel level.
[2017/04/06 15:09]  Duckie Dickins: as a parcel owner would it inform me that when I try to toggle public access off that the region owner had overridden that toggle?
[2017/04/06 15:10]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): it sounded liek you mean it updates the parcel settings instead of overrides them
[2017/04/06 15:10]  Grumpity Linden: yes. UI would indicate that you can't disable public access
[2017/04/06 15:10]  NOPE (margithe): the difference would be in what the parcel owner sees.
[2017/04/06 15:10]  NOPE (margithe): ok, thanks.
[2017/04/06 15:11]  arton Rotaru: do it on th mainlands :p
[2017/04/06 15:11]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): I guess we'll know when we get a viewer
[2017/04/06 15:11]  NOPE (margithe): hah
[2017/04/06 15:11]  Caleb the Cable Guy (caleb.linden): right
[2017/04/06 15:11]  Whirly Fizzle: What about parcel allow group access only?  If Public access is ticked but gtoup access is ticked, that will still create ban lines for those not in group
[2017/04/06 15:11]  Duckie Dickins: does it inform the parcel owner if they had public access turned off and then later the region owner overrides it?
[2017/04/06 15:11]  Whirly Fizzle: Getting deja vu here  lol
[2017/04/06 15:11]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): lol
[2017/04/06 15:12]  Grumpity Linden: no, Duckie. the setting would just change and it would be disabled in the UI
[2017/04/06 15:12]  NOPE (margithe): oufff... this could be so much fun for moderate parcels with adult furniture on. I bet they will be extactic lol
[2017/04/06 15:12]  Grumpity Linden: Whirly, what?
[2017/04/06 15:13]  NOPE (margithe): what she said. rather common
[2017/04/06 15:13]  Duckie Dickins: so as a parcel owner I could of toggled public access off for reasons and then log in and find people sitting in my jacuzzi and have a WTF moment.
[2017/04/06 15:13]  NOPE (margithe): Most don't even realise it creates banlines , and doesn't grant public access at all.
[2017/04/06 15:14]  arton Rotaru: can you force ban lines this way as well?
[2017/04/06 15:14]  NOPE (margithe): In most peoples minds, it's an an AND and not an OR
[2017/04/06 15:14]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): tenants are going to be sol anyway
[2017/04/06 15:14]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): thats the point
[2017/04/06 15:14]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): the EO/EM decides all
[2017/04/06 15:14]  Grumpity Linden: Duckie, if an Estate requires parcels to allow Public Access and they do not follow the rules in the covenant, currently Estate has only manual ways of enforcing.  Now estate has a switch.
[2017/04/06 15:15]  NOPE (margithe): Yes but does it cover the group access case?
[2017/04/06 15:15]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): this will erk those living in estates that apply the settings, but thats on the EO's/EM's
[2017/04/06 15:15]  Grumpity Linden: Lucia, correct.
[2017/04/06 15:15]  Whirly Fizzle: What we were talking about before - the public access & group access UI options don't behave as you expect now
[2017/04/06 15:15]  Duckie Dickins: yes yes I get it...it's also the EO/EM's responsibility to inform people prior to flippping the switch but most people don't so
[2017/04/06 15:16]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): yeah, curious if that was in mind with this cahnge, heh
[2017/04/06 15:16]  Grumpity Linden: Whirly, we're trying to fix the UI to do what it's supposed to do.
[2017/04/06 15:17]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): you'd think if public access was enabled at the region it would also block group access limiting, which may need to also be an option for region level too?
[2017/04/06 15:17]  NOPE (margithe): You can toggle Allow Public Access, and then also Allow Group Access. It's not an AND as one might think, it actually changes aess to the most restrictive setting.
[2017/04/06 15:17]  NOPE (margithe): SOOth is chaing?
[2017/04/06 15:17]  Duckie Dickins: so how does this get tested on DIRTSIM-343? Do we get parcels? OOooo
[2017/04/06 15:17]  NOPE (margithe): so that is changing*
[2017/04/06 15:17]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): no we get viewers for agni, heh
[2017/04/06 15:18]  Mazidox Linden: See when I think or "AND" I think of the intersection of the two not the union. But I am certain I'm in the minority there
[2017/04/06 15:18]  Grumpity Linden: Margithe, yes, that current behavior is confusing to say the least (ref https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-4994)
[2017/04/06 15:18]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): @Mazi, we don't know until we get a viewer
[2017/04/06 15:18]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): then wait for the screams
[2017/04/06 15:19]  Grumpity Linden: We are trying to find the best way to express the access sets most clearly, which is why there isn't a viewer for you to play with yet.
[2017/04/06 15:19]  Duckie Dickins: I think there needs to be one time pop up that the region manager has overridden your parcel settings. :D
[2017/04/06 15:19]  Mazidox Linden: Understood Lucia. Not my wheelhouse, but I will add one to the tally of pokes for a viewer :)
[2017/04/06 15:19]  NOPE (margithe): yeah. I see people do that on mainland all the time, and not understand how it could create banlines. it sounds fantastically permissive- everyone welcome, group or not group!
[2017/04/06 15:19]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): there are going to be screams regardless, lol
[2017/04/06 15:20]  NOPE (margithe): well
[2017/04/06 15:20]  Duckie Dickins: change is hard.
[2017/04/06 15:20]  Caleb the Cable Guy (caleb.linden): we will add the viewer info on our sbug wiki page when it becomes available
[2017/04/06 15:20]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): yes, I forgot about that change and thought my land was public access when it wasn't
[2017/04/06 15:20]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): the terminology does need to change some
[2017/04/06 15:21]  NOPE (margithe): So is this behavior changing, or is the estate manager simply able to disable "allow group access"?
[2017/04/06 15:21]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): reminds me of something else I'd like to request later on regarding to scripted access to the state of a parcel setting that will negatively affect temp attachments in experiences if it is not active
[2017/04/06 15:21]  Grumpity Linden: the UI is changing to better convey what you actual settings permit.  no functionality is changing (on that front)
[2017/04/06 15:21]  NOPE (margithe): you could just add an "only" to the wording, since it's going to be changes in the viewer anyways
[2017/04/06 15:22]  NOPE (margithe): Allow Only group Access (overrides public access)
[2017/04/06 15:22]  Mazidox Linden: Right now the only change server side is that if this new feature is used, "Allow Public Access" must be checked on every parcel. It doesn't affect whether "Allow Group Access" is checked or not. For the maybe and the future I defer to Grumpity's toasty wisdom.
[2017/04/06 15:23]  NOPE (margithe): now i'm confused.
[2017/04/06 15:23]  arton Rotaru: jst now?
[2017/04/06 15:23]  arton Rotaru: just*
[2017/04/06 15:23]  Whirly Fizzle: Um....  but if allow public access is ticked AND allow group access is ticked, that will still only allow group acess only....
[2017/04/06 15:23]  NOPE (margithe): always, maybe?
[2017/04/06 15:23]  Whirly Fizzle: & hence ban lines....
[2017/04/06 15:23]  NOPE (margithe): what Whirly said... this is why i'm confused
[2017/04/06 15:23]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): thats the unknown Whirls
[2017/04/06 15:23]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): at least to me at this point, heh
[2017/04/06 15:24]  Grumpity Linden: Alright, slow down.  First, functionality.
[2017/04/06 15:24]  NOPE (margithe): thats what we are discussing :P
[2017/04/06 15:24]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): discussion is good
[2017/04/06 15:24]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): closing jira's without discussion, bad, heh
[2017/04/06 15:24]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): separate issue
[2017/04/06 15:24]  Grumpity Linden: 1) EO & EM can now force parcels to be no more restrictive than the Estate level setting
[2017/04/06 15:24]  Grumpity Linden: (minus ban list)
[2017/04/06 15:25]  Grumpity Linden: next UI
[2017/04/06 15:25]  NOPE (margithe): We're trying to figure out if you omitted the part where pele can still create banlines, even with llow Public Access being checked.
[2017/04/06 15:25]  NOPE (margithe): people*
[2017/04/06 15:25]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): theres only 4 combinations of flags at the parcel level, so I imagine its been tested
[2017/04/06 15:25]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): I hope, heh
[2017/04/06 15:26]  NOPE (margithe): who knows... still waiting for an answer to unconfuse me.
[2017/04/06 15:26]  Duckie Dickins: well people with a viewer for that can test it at least. :)
[2017/04/06 15:26]  Whirly Fizzle: Allow only PIOF & over 18 will need to be blocked at parcel level tooI guess.
[2017/04/06 15:26]  Grumpity Linden: 2) UI for both Estate and Parcel access management is hella confusing.  We're making changes to make it less confusing.  The weirdness where you check "Public access" and "Group access" and end up with group ONLY unless you also check "PIOF" and then you get group + public w/PIOF ... that will not stand.
[2017/04/06 15:26]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): crap Whirls, forgot about that, heh
[2017/04/06 15:27]  Grumpity Linden: I CAN ONLY TYPE SO FAST!!! i'm toast! i have no hands!
[2017/04/06 15:27]  arton Rotaru: lol
[2017/04/06 15:27]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): been hearing that alot lately
[2017/04/06 15:27]  NOPE (margithe): We'll always outnumber you, never forget that ;))
[2017/04/06 15:27]  Duckie Dickins: the UI should also gray out options that are no longer avaiable due to estate settings and should indicate (overridden by estate) somewhere in the UI so people don't think their parcel is broken
[2017/04/06 15:27]  Grumpity Linden: you have? who else is toast?
[2017/04/06 15:27]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): the typing so fast thing, heh
[2017/04/06 15:27]  Whirly Fizzle: Rider uses that line a lot
[2017/04/06 15:27]  Grumpity Linden: yes, UI will indeed grey out unavail options
[2017/04/06 15:27]  arton Rotaru: well, that's a relief at least, we were not the only ones who locked down an entire region in the middle of a sailing area for a week^^
[2017/04/06 15:27]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): yes
[2017/04/06 15:28]  NOPE (margithe): I vote fforan indicator of override &change
[2017/04/06 15:28]  Minuet Voir: Looking around, I think the phrase 'hold your horses' would work here
[2017/04/06 15:28]  Mazidox Linden: Very few folks here have hands, actually. Lots of hooves and paws.
[2017/04/06 15:28]  Grumpity Linden: also Estate level setting will include a warning dialogue to hopefully deter EM from messing with this override willy-nilly
[2017/04/06 15:29]  Duckie Dickins: ok ok...one more question.
[2017/04/06 15:29]  Grumpity Linden: just one?
[2017/04/06 15:29]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): so, if a region has parcels with public access unchecked and a EO/EM fiddles around with the region setting, turning it on, then off, will all the parcels now have public access on? this goes back to my question if the region setting updates the parcels too or is simply an override
[2017/04/06 15:29]  Jenna Felton: and no one has a keyboard here inworld but everyone types :)
[2017/04/06 15:29]  NOPE (margithe): oh ouch, Lucy
[2017/04/06 15:29]  Whirly Fizzle: Ugh hopefully it won't reset tha actual parcel settings
[2017/04/06 15:29]  Duckie Dickins: let's say I disabled public access on my parcel.......then later EM disable that toggle......then later they change their mind.........will my parcel revert back to my prior settings or will that checkbox be cleared out and I would need to set it again.
[2017/04/06 15:30]  Grumpity Linden: unfortunately, it updates the parcel settings. you can blame rider.
[2017/04/06 15:30]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): oh boys
[2017/04/06 15:30]  Whirly Fizzle: Oh God, really\?
[2017/04/06 15:30]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): screams def coming
[2017/04/06 15:30]  Whirly Fizzle: Nooooooooo
[2017/04/06 15:30]  NOPE (margithe): Oh dearor
[2017/04/06 15:30]  Whirly Fizzle: That's bad Grumpity
[2017/04/06 15:30]  Grumpity Linden: /me looks around for rider
[2017/04/06 15:30]  NOPE (margithe): Thats like shostopper bad.
[2017/04/06 15:30]  Grumpity Linden: blame Rider?
[2017/04/06 15:30]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): see thats why I was wondering with Mazi's terminology because thats what it sounded like
[2017/04/06 15:30]  NOPE (margithe): showtopper*
[2017/04/06 15:30]  Duckie Dickins: that's sorta like accidently wiping someone's ban list. :D
[2017/04/06 15:30]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): right now don't all region settings act as overrides not updaters?
[2017/04/06 15:31]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): excluding this recent setting
[2017/04/06 15:31]  Whirly Fizzle: Can't that be changed?
[2017/04/06 15:31]  NOPE (margithe): Someone put Rider in the corner with a laptop until he re-does it.
[2017/04/06 15:31]  Mazidox Linden: Just to clarify Duckie, definitely doesn't affect ban lists.
[2017/04/06 15:31]  Grumpity Linden: We'll go back and see whether it can.
[2017/04/06 15:31]  Grumpity Linden: yeah, ban lists are still king.
[2017/04/06 15:31]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): hmm, maybe a good idea a viewer isn't out yet, ehh
[2017/04/06 15:31]  Duckie Dickins: he needs to face the wall with that laptop blair witch style until he's done
[2017/04/06 15:32]  Grumpity Linden: Hey hey, when i said blame Rider, i didn't mean get out your lynch mob!
[2017/04/06 15:32]  Duckie Dickins: :D
[2017/04/06 15:32]  NOPE (margithe): Better us than whole SL.
[2017/04/06 15:32]  Jenna Felton: EM should have 3 states for that checkbox "On", "Off" and "Parcel level decides"
[2017/04/06 15:32]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): his typing speed will improve , the quality who knows
[2017/04/06 15:32]  Mazidox Linden: Okay, maybe this is my "still the new Linden on the block" showing, but can someone explain to me the bad thing that happens when you forcibly check the Allow Public Access checkbox, vs disregarding whether it's checked or not if this Estate level checkbox is checked?
[2017/04/06 15:33]  Duckie Dickins: haven't they given you your own parcel next door to Simon yet? :D
[2017/04/06 15:33]  Grumpity Linden: Jenna, that's effectively what it is, but that's not quite true, because Parcel can never override the Estate's more restrictive setting.  Only the less restrictive setting.
[2017/04/06 15:33]  Mazidox Linden: (And hopefully reinforcing that if you tell me why things are bad I can make a more compelling argument to Grumpity et al. as to why it's going to cause pain)
[2017/04/06 15:34]  Grumpity Linden: Mazidox, the concern is that an estate will do this accidentally and there will be no recovery path and each parcel will need to reset their access individually.
[2017/04/06 15:34]  NOPE (margithe): Ok, who does the honors?
[2017/04/06 15:34]  arton Rotaru: no pain no gain
[2017/04/06 15:34]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): the only bad thing I see is that the region setting is acting as a forced updater and not as an override which all other region settings act as
[2017/04/06 15:35]  Jenna Felton: ok, and Grumpity explained the problem wel i think :)
[2017/04/06 15:35]  Duckie Dickins: in my mind I kind of thought that if I had turned public access off.....and then the region owner override it...that on the UI the box would remain unchecked but also greyed out so that if they disabled the override then my parcel would resume not allowing public access......but I guess it's not going to work like that.
[2017/04/06 15:35]  Mazidox Linden: Is it still a showstopper level problem if the EM gets a warning telling them exactly what they're about to do?
[2017/04/06 15:35]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): @Duck, it should, but it doesn't, heh
[2017/04/06 15:36]  arton Rotaru: lol
[2017/04/06 15:36]  NOPE (margithe): From my point of view, to begin with, you are making a setting that 1. can't be undone 2. Changes the settings globally, but re-applying their previous settings have to happen locally. So if an estate manager does this, it can't be undone, to begin with.
[2017/04/06 15:36]  Grumpity Linden: Lucy, we are operating under the assumption that this is not something Estates will be flipping back and forth a)frequently and b)without communication.  If they do, you should pick up and go elsewhere.
[2017/04/06 15:36]  Duckie Dickins: well....warnings are nice.......but at work I would tell people "don't open email attachments from people you don't know" but ya know what? People still did it...
[2017/04/06 15:37]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): yes, Grump, but still the effects could still be made to work like other region settings that don't update the parcels, but instead act as overrides
[2017/04/06 15:37]  NOPE (margithe): Grumpity... people do things randomly all the time. Normally, on a computer, a setting can be undone, not destroy OTHER peoples settings uncontrollably
[2017/04/06 15:37]  Jenna Felton: the question is also can a parcell owner see easilly that the setting was changed by EM without permanently looking in about land window. perhaps by icons or so in the location field
[2017/04/06 15:37]  Grumpity Linden: Lucy, we are in agreement that this is the more desirable behavior.  If it's possible and plausible, we'll make it so.
[2017/04/06 15:37]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): if I turn off damage, terraforming, script sin region settings, it doesn't update the parcels in the region, it overrides them
[2017/04/06 15:37]  Jenna Felton: than they could update the settings after mistake of the EM
[2017/04/06 15:37]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): thanks Grump
[2017/04/06 15:37]  Mazidox Linden: I'd like to move on to the latest and greatest news hot off the presses
[2017/04/06 15:38]  NOPE (margithe): Don''t drop this tho. Promise.
[2017/04/06 15:38]  Caleb the Cable Guy (caleb.linden): will a simstate roll back reset the setting?
[2017/04/06 15:38]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): good question
[2017/04/06 15:38]  Mazidox Linden: If you loaded the agenda at the start of the meeting (https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group#Agenda_2017-04-06) you'll want to reload it because this is the freshest news!
[2017/04/06 15:38]  Mazidox Linden: Yes Caleb.
[2017/04/06 15:38]  NOPE (margithe): rollbacks  are bad, don't.
[2017/04/06 15:38]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): a rollback will revert parcel settings and even parcel owner, post land sale, heh
[2017/04/06 15:38]  Grumpity Linden: i don't know, Caleb. i'd rather not though :D
[2017/04/06 15:39]  Mazidox Linden: We are pretty confident we'll be putting DRTSIM-323 on an RC channel on Agni next week.
[2017/04/06 15:39]  Grumpity Linden: i expect a rollback would, yes.
[2017/04/06 15:40]  Mazidox Linden: We're not 100% quite yet, we could find a last minute showstopper as always, but this is a big milestone.
[2017/04/06 15:40]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): if it does what can you do, a rollback can revert a lot already
[2017/04/06 15:40]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): the only thing I ask is that someday LL invest in no copy object duplication prevention
[2017/04/06 15:40]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): ie, removing no copy objects from the sim also removes them from save states
[2017/04/06 15:40]  Grumpity Linden: the only thing you ask, HA
[2017/04/06 15:40]  arton Rotaru: lol
[2017/04/06 15:41]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): oh I can ask alot more, lol
[2017/04/06 15:41]  Grumpity Linden: can? DO!
[2017/04/06 15:41]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): I'm sure you've seen my request queu
[2017/04/06 15:41]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): *queue
[2017/04/06 15:41]  NOPE (margithe): So can i . Like features that benefit ALL residents alike.
[2017/04/06 15:41]  arton Rotaru: no pile on next week
[2017/04/06 15:41]  Mazidox Linden: For those of you who don't attend regularly or just missed that meeting, DRTSIM-323 is an upgrade to the simulator operating system to bring it up to more modern standards. It won't change anything you should notice, and could change anything, at the same time.
[2017/04/06 15:42]  Grumpity Linden: ^^^^ please please be extra vigilant and let us know what blows up.  which will be nothing. of course.
[2017/04/06 15:42]  Duckie Dickins: you should update like ahern or one of the landing zones like that so you'll have built in stress testers. :D
[2017/04/06 15:42]  Mazidox Linden: It will go extremely smoothly and you'll never know there was a change.
[2017/04/06 15:42]  Mazidox Linden: I've run out of Snack type names Duckie :(
[2017/04/06 15:42]  Grumpity Linden: exactly like that.
[2017/04/06 15:42]  Jenna Felton: i support Duckie idea
[2017/04/06 15:42]  NOPE (margithe): is this an anti-jinx speech?
[2017/04/06 15:43]  Mazidox Linden: (I also don't name these things, but I've run out anyway!)
[2017/04/06 15:43]  Grumpity Linden: <.<
[2017/04/06 15:43]  Grumpity Linden: >.>
[2017/04/06 15:43]  NOPE (margithe): snack type names?
[2017/04/06 15:43]  Duckie Dickins: twinkies?
[2017/04/06 15:43]  arton Rotaru: McRib
[2017/04/06 15:43]  NOPE (margithe): Ostbollar?
[2017/04/06 15:43]  Duckie Dickins: twinkies
[2017/04/06 15:43]  arton Rotaru: can I haz a Big Mac plz
[2017/04/06 15:43]  Theresa Tennyson: Any update on BUG-41600? It's tiny but it might be a symptom of something bigger.
[2017/04/06 15:43]  NOPE (margithe): Anyhow
[2017/04/06 15:44]  Caleb the Cable Guy (caleb.linden): Theresa, i was able to reproduce it on Second Life Server on aditi as well
[2017/04/06 15:44]  Mazidox Linden: Do do do... Theresa, it looks like we accepted it?
[2017/04/06 15:44]  NOPE (margithe): I wish the content creation meeting didn't turn into a bi-weekly event, cause i have my whole desk of notes now of things i want to ask >.<
[2017/04/06 15:44]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): Caleb, did you get those server logs for https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SEC-2056 ?
[2017/04/06 15:44]  Theresa Tennyson: Hmmm...
[2017/04/06 15:45]  NOPE (margithe): (someone nudge Vir)
[2017/04/06 15:45]  Duckie Dickins: starbucks gift cards is the best way to nudge a developer. :P
[2017/04/06 15:46]  Caleb the Cable Guy (caleb.linden): Lucy, we haven't gotten a chance to look at iti yet
[2017/04/06 15:46]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): look at what?
[2017/04/06 15:46]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): server logs?
[2017/04/06 15:46]  Whirly Fizzle: Hmm if a script calls a texture UUID & that texture was uploaded on Agni, that texture UUID doesn't necessarily exist on Aditi right?  re Theresa's bug
[2017/04/06 15:47]  Caleb the Cable Guy (caleb.linden): sec-2056
[2017/04/06 15:47]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): but did you save the logs?
[2017/04/06 15:47]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): as idk how to repro that exactly
[2017/04/06 15:48]  Caleb the Cable Guy (caleb.linden): will do after this meeting (fingers crossed)
[2017/04/06 15:48]  Mazidox Linden: Agni and Aditi are separate. Asking for an Agni thing on Aditi is extremely likely to fail in strange and inconsistent ways.
[2017/04/06 15:48]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): I bugged two other lindens during the week to remind you as it is a major issue, heh
[2017/04/06 15:49]  Jenna Felton: i'd like to have such toast at home, never runs out of toast
[2017/04/06 15:49]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): as the desc entails, theres no recovery
[2017/04/06 15:49]  Grumpity Linden: jenna, right? think of all the money i could make on hipsters!
[2017/04/06 15:49]  Duckie Dickins: maybe that helicopter creator needs to log into here so their assets are updated so that hud won't have the missing texture bug?
[2017/04/06 15:49]  Caleb the Cable Guy (caleb.linden): selling broth in mason jars
[2017/04/06 15:49]  Jenna Felton: yes ok :)
[2017/04/06 15:49]  arton Rotaru: yummy
[2017/04/06 15:50]  NOPE (margithe): if it's about texture from UUID, then a lot of content with any type of texture changer would be affected
[2017/04/06 15:50]  NOPE (margithe): maybe it's reaqsonable to write sommwhere about it as a exceptio
[2017/04/06 15:50]  arton Rotaru: tru dat
[2017/04/06 15:50]  NOPE (margithe): exception*
[2017/04/06 15:50]  Theresa Tennyson: It says a texture is missing, but doesn't give a name or ID for it.
[2017/04/06 15:51]  Jenna Felton: i happen to find a texture that had different UUIDs at Aditi and Agni, despite theinventory transfer. but it was years ago and i do not have it anymore
[2017/04/06 15:51]  Mazidox Linden: So, in addition to DRTSIM-323 we're also likely to have DRTSIM-345 on RC next week.
[2017/04/06 15:51]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): what is 345?
[2017/04/06 15:51]  Caleb the Cable Guy (caleb.linden): 345 is mostly logging, but there is one thing we should look out for if it improves offline notice deliveries
[2017/04/06 15:52]  Caleb the Cable Guy (caleb.linden): in particular group notices
[2017/04/06 15:52]  Mazidox Linden: If DRTSIM-343 (the Allow Public Access feature we discussed earlier) doesn't promote to Second Life Server (which I have no idea if it will or not) we'll likely have 3 different things on RC.
[2017/04/06 15:52]  Jenna Felton: how do we test that?
[2017/04/06 15:52]  Jenna Felton: (i mean the offline message delivery)
[2017/04/06 15:52]  arton Rotaru: yay progress
[2017/04/06 15:52]  Whirly Fizzle: Has something changed the last week or so that could be causing the offlines to email setting to revert again?  Seens a few screams that it's happening again.
[2017/04/06 15:52]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): my offline IM's show up in my email 6 - 12 hours after they occurred in SL
[2017/04/06 15:53]  Caleb the Cable Guy (caleb.linden): we can use this group chat group do send a bunch of notices
[2017/04/06 15:53]  Mazidox Linden: We also noticed a recent trend where a rolling restart would cause large numbers of objects to be returned when the region came back up. Obviously, this is bad and we don't want that, so DRTSIM-345 has a fix for that happening.
[2017/04/06 15:53]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): why I have them sent to my KVP db if it is anything I need sooner when I come back online
[2017/04/06 15:53]  Duckie Dickins: I would say that might be a bad thing. Hehe
[2017/04/06 15:54]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): the returns are any stacked physics
[2017/04/06 15:54]  Grumpity Linden: whirly, please send me specific cases.
[2017/04/06 15:54]  Whirly Fizzle: is anyone looking into the regions coming back online with caps fail after the rolling restarts?  It's still happening a lot.
[2017/04/06 15:54]  Mazidox Linden: I haven't seen any bugs regarding either of the issues you've mentioned Whirly, but would be interested in either/both.
[2017/04/06 15:54]  NOPE (margithe): The pile on, is it post-poned or cancelled entirely? cause i was getting my pitchforks ready.
[2017/04/06 15:55]  Grumpity Linden: when you put it that way, Margithe...
[2017/04/06 15:55]  Whirly Fizzle: There's a ton of caps fail after rolling restart issues....
[2017/04/06 15:55]  Mazidox Linden: The pile-on is currently in a quantum state of both postponement and cancellation. I'll let you know when I do.
[2017/04/06 15:56]  Grumpity Linden: whirly is referring to hotel california, no?
[2017/04/06 15:56]  Mazidox Linden: Yes Grumpity
[2017/04/06 15:56]  NOPE (margithe): it's ok, i will both ready the pitchfork, and ready it too. ;)
[2017/04/06 15:56]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): caps failure is called hotel california internally? heh
[2017/04/06 15:56]  Grumpity Linden: there's some work to maybe address that, whirly.  fingers crossed.
[2017/04/06 15:56]  Whirly Fizzle: Mazidox, here's one from Tuesday's roll   https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-41677
[2017/04/06 15:56]  Caleb the Cable Guy (caleb.linden): bring pitchfork and ice cream
[2017/04/06 15:57]  Grumpity Linden: which isnt' saying much, because toast.
[2017/04/06 15:57]  Mazidox Linden: (And I do want to note that I'm aware that you all have asked for heads up on pile-on tests to help plan and be prepared)
[2017/04/06 15:57]  NOPE (margithe): (did not ask for VIP lines)
[2017/04/06 15:57]  Grumpity Linden: i'm going to run away now before this escalates
[2017/04/06 15:58]  Whirly Fizzle: mAZIDOX, https://jira.secondlife.com/issues/?jql=text%20~%20%22%5C%22CAPS%20FAIL%5C%22%22
[2017/04/06 15:58]  Whirly Fizzle: oops caps
[2017/04/06 15:58]  Mazidox Linden: More like CAPS
[2017/04/06 15:58]  Grumpity Linden: thanks all! CAPS FAIL indeed!!!
[2017/04/06 15:58]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): lay up
[2017/04/06 15:58]  arton Rotaru: More butter next time please :p
[2017/04/06 15:59]  Jenna Felton: we'd like to have pile-on tests whenever it is helpfull, not because we want to have them desperatelly :) at least speaking for myself
[2017/04/06 15:59]  arton Rotaru: tru dat
[2017/04/06 15:59]  Caleb the Cable Guy (caleb.linden): see you next week, thanks for coming
[2017/04/06 15:59]  Theresa Tennyson: Bye!
[2017/04/06 15:59]  arton Rotaru: thanks Lindens
[2017/04/06 16:00]  arton Rotaru: that was quick 60 minutes
[2017/04/06 16:00]  Jenna Felton: have a good end of the week and thank you for the meeting :) Lindens and all
[2017/04/06 16:00]  NOPE (margithe): Mazidox, did you get your question earlier sufficiently answered? As in why changing access settings at a top level would be bad? We didn't present any specific cases.
[2017/04/06 16:00]  Mazidox Linden: A lot of the time we can get a lot of additional value from the additional people power you all bring.
[2017/04/06 16:00]  Mazidox Linden: Grumpity was pretty clear in explaining the problem :)
[2017/04/06 16:01]  NOPE (margithe): Ok. I was thinking on a more personal level, for the individual parcel owner.
[2017/04/06 16:01]  Jenna Felton: i'd suggest that the state of the parcell settings is stored into a database so when the EM sets the setting to "parcell decides" than the saved state is restored
[2017/04/06 16:01]  Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): as long as the updating aspect is changed to an overriding one, then the screaming will be minimal
[2017/04/06 16:01]  Duckie Dickins: I missed a few meetings...was there more progress on https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-41503
[2017/04/06 16:01]  Mazidox Linden: Can you clarify in 3 minutes or less Margithe?
[2017/04/06 16:01]  Jenna Felton: so when the EM had a bad day the parcell owners will not loose their hair
[2017/04/06 16:02]  arton Rotaru: lol
[2017/04/06 16:02]  Mazidox Linden: No progress on the bear, it is definitely still on my mind though.
[2017/04/06 16:02]  arton Rotaru: bad hair day so to say^^
[2017/04/06 16:02]  Caleb the Cable Guy (caleb.linden): ciao
[2017/04/06 16:02]  NOPE (margithe): or does a " this is a setting i haven't seen before. What does that do?"