User:Zero Linden/Office Hours/2007 Feb 15

Transcript of Zero Linden's office hours from 2007 February 15th:

[7:30]  Hugo Dalgleish waves at Zero Linden
[7:30]  Zero Linden: Hugo - you seem to be a gaseous planet!
[7:30]  Tree Kyomoon: the great zeero!
[7:30]  Zero Linden: Gee Tree, back for more?
[7:30]  lyndell Aleixandre: hello zero
[7:30]  Helena Lycia: Hello
[7:30]  Hugo Dalgleish: yup, I'm just one big particle cloud
[7:31]  Tree Kyomoon: yes, this is the future of everything
[7:31]  Tree Kyomoon: so I am honored to be allowed to participate
[7:31]  lyndell Aleixandre: still needs allot of work tho hehe
[7:32]  Zero Linden: Welcome all to my early-morning (for SLT) / late-afternoon (for Europe) office hours
[7:32]  Tree Kyomoon: zero I was trying to explain to lyndell here about the separattion of the avatar processes from the sims, can you give a quick synopsis
[7:32]  Tree Kyomoon: Im sure I butchered it
[7:32]  Zero Linden: Just a repeat reminder: I'll be posting a transcript at some point
[7:33]  Zero Linden: Also, this morning I'm limited to one hour....
[7:33]  Zero Linden: Sure - the brief is that in the distant future (say 1 year), we will be rearchitecting so that the computer and process simulating the region land you are own is spearate from the computer and process
[7:34]  Summer Seale: ao off
[7:34]  Zero Linden: managing the avatar's general functions (like IM, inventory and L$)
[7:34]  Zero Linden: Welcome Summer
[7:34]  Summer Seale: hihi
[7:34]  Summer Seale: didn't want to interrupt
[7:34]  Zero Linden: Right now those AV functions ar ehandled by the region you are in - which means as you move, that abilty must be transfered from place to place
[7:35]  Zero Linden: but more importantly, the scalling is wrong- we have two variables, agents and regions, which need to be on computers that can scale independently
[7:35]  Zero Linden: rather than always having them tied together
[7:35]  Tree Kyomoon: might that lead to an increase in prim limits?
[7:36]  Zero Linden: perhaps - though not directly
[7:36]  lyndell Aleixandre: i think that tied to some extent tothe physics engine
[7:36]  Helena Lycia: Might it lead to a reduction in "rubber banding" when crossing sims in high prim AVs?
[7:36]  deivinho Beck: helo
[7:36]  Tree Kyomoon: :)
[7:37]  deivinho Beck: you are from
[7:37]  deivinho Beck: /
[7:38]  Zero Linden: some, yes - though attachments will still ahve to be transfered - as those are still objects in the world, even if attached
[7:38]  Zero Linden: and yes, the physics engine is a constraint - though there are others
[7:38]  Helena Lycia: I have AVs that can cause me to rubber band across over half a sim so any reduction would be great - lol
[7:38]  Zero Linden: like the object limit is in part so that we know the geometry can be sent to a viewer in reasonable time
[7:39]  Zero Linden: for a given draw distance, if we upped the object density, then the time to receive the geometry increases
[7:39]  Tree Kyomoon: would be nice to make that call as a sim owner ourselves
[7:39]  lyndell Aleixandre: if your going to seperate the agent process , why not also seperate other peocesses as well ? perhaps the physics engine as well eliminating the region crossing problems .
[7:39]  Summer Seale will brb as coffee calls <3 this is so kewl
[7:39]  Zero Linden: what won't have to hand off is responsibilty for the AV, since right now we need to coordinate that between sims as you move
[7:40]  Zero Linden: well, lyndell - you can only separate out other things if they don't induce more communication than they save
[7:41]  Zero Linden: so, while the physics engine would be nice to spearate out, it has to transfer all that infromation to other aspects of the sim (scripting, communication with viewers)
[7:41]  Zero Linden: so no net saving
[7:41]  Zero Linden: also, the physics scales with the region
[7:41]  Zero Linden: whcih is to say
[7:41]  Zero Linden: we are not just going to put agent handling in a separate process
[7:41]  Zero Linden: we are oging to put it on a separate computer
[7:41]  Zero Linden: remember, each region is a single CPU and process right now
[7:43]  Zero Linden: welcome new folks -
[7:43]  Zero Linden: know that I'll be posting transcripts
[7:43]  Ultravox Freeman: HI..
[7:43]  lyndell Aleixandre: my sugestion was, well what i meant to say is .. that if you seperate everything .. and assign discrete clusters to them .. like what your doing right now with the asset server , you could eliminate "sims" altogether .. you could redistribute resources where they are needed most,
[7:43]  lyndell Aleixandre: this would allow a region to scale to whatever you need
[7:43]  Zero Linden: it seems to us that we'd lose because the communciation costs between such things
[7:44]  Zero Linden: Again, the physic engine needs to read and write alot of data from the scripting engine
[7:44]  Zero Linden: so, to separate those would incur hugh communication costs, synchronization costs, and worse, latency
[7:44]  Tree Kyomoon: that pesky speed of light
[7:45]  Zero Linden: And ditto the process that is sending geometry of objects to viewers
[7:45]  lyndell Aleixandre: the communications overhead .. as i understand it .. greatly outweighs the cost of buying new regions .. and or faster servers to cope with resources
[7:45]  Zero Linden: actually, more the speed of kernels accepting TCP connections !
[7:45]  lyndell Aleixandre: well thats true .. perhaps some latency would be induced .. nothing some goos architectural adjustments wont fix
[7:45]  lyndell Aleixandre: *good
[7:46]  Zero Linden: right now, believe it or not, the one-CPU per region simulation model is working pretty well -- our points of pain are other aspects of the architecture
[7:46]  Zero Linden: things like how we access the databases,
[7:46]  lyndell Aleixandre: ofcourse... just looking ahead , possible bottlenecks
[7:47]  Zero Linden: Welcome Ravanne, join us
[7:47]  Tree Kyomoon: could you benefit from dedicated on board processing chips, rather than separate computers?
[7:47]  Hugo Dalgleish: I think the one cpu per region model will work in your favour when the server portion is open-sourced. It will allow a low point of entry to those people looking to create their own regions
[7:47]  Tree Kyomoon: good point
[7:48]  Zero Linden: I love engineering in SL - in RL you don't get engineers in slinky dresses talking tech!
[7:48]  Hugo Dalgleish: dedicated hardware will not help the open-source model... then you have to buy that hardware in order to run your own simulators
[7:48]  Ravanne Sullivan: Ummm?
[7:48]  Zero Linden: Tree - we have focused heavily on making things work on stock hardware
[7:48]  Ravanne Sullivan: I am a RL engineer and have been known to wear slinky dresses
[7:48]  Ravanne Sullivan giggles
[7:48]  Zero Linden: when you're installing a rack of servers a week, you want to be able to buy off-the shelf hardware
[7:49]  Hugo Dalgleish: commodity hardware is key, the cost of custom hardware would kill you
[7:49]  Tree Kyomoon: thats a great approach
[7:49]  Zero Linden: so, for example, the simulators do no rendering at all - because they don't have 3D graphics cards in them - since there was no way we could standardize on a card - in six months it'd be obsolete
[7:49]  Zero Linden: and in 12 out of production
[7:50]  Hugo Dalgleish: I believe that Google do the same thing with their search engines... they're all off-the shelf, commodity systems
[7:50]  lyndell Aleixandre: there is a problem tho .. if you look at the bigger picture , 1 cpu per region doesnt scale very well , and if you look at expanding the scope of sl .. which you are going to have to do at some point in the future .. 1 sim/cpu isnt going to get you very far .. your going to need a way to exploit the idle resources.
[7:50]  Zero Linden: lyndell- actually, the cost of 1cpu/region is just fine - since our pricing model is based on land
[7:51]  lyndell Aleixandre: especially when yur looking at expanding in 3 dimensions
[7:51]  Zero Linden: and we already do handle regions with less stuff, and put four per CPU
[7:51]  Zero Linden: so one could imagine a future with "virtual hosted" regions sharing a CPU
[7:51]  Zero Linden: but of course, they'd suffer performance
[7:51]  Ravanne Sullivan: Things may change soon also, with hte new chip technologies coming out. Once they reach the general market aand become commodity products
[7:51]  Helena Lycia: How are the OS sims working out performance wise?
[7:52]  Tree Kyomoon: hey that brings up a good question...any plans for outer space, or another level of SL at 700m?
[7:52]  lyndell Aleixandre: but do servers automatically run 4 sims a cpu when it senses that the sims it runs are mostly idle ?
[7:52]  Summer Seale: ya i was wondering about that too.
[7:52]  Zero Linden: "OS Sims" ? as in open source sims? We haven't open sourced the simulator -- and even if we had, there is no way to connect one to the grid at present
[7:52]  lyndell Aleixandre: thats what i meant about expanding the scope btw ,(space)
[7:53]  Helena Lycia: Open Space
[7:53]  Zero Linden: no - we don't automatically run sims with no visitors 4/CPU _---- regions are statically allocated a performace class
[7:53]  Helena Lycia: The ocean sims that run 4 per CPU
[7:53]  Zero Linden: Ah - the "void" sims as we call 'em internally
[7:53]  Zero Linden: they seem fine
[7:53]  Tree Kyomoon: heh heh
[7:54]  Zero Linden: there are no plans for expanding the map vertically -
[7:54]  Zero Linden: whcih is to say, I don't think we'd create a second layer-
[7:54]  lyndell Aleixandre: thats ... sad .. and boring..
[7:54]  Zero Linden: it would break things visually
[7:54]  Helena Lycia: Aare there any plans to expand on using different CPU per sim ratios? (2 CPUs per sim for ultra busy ones or 2 sims per CPU for semi-quiet ones)
[7:54]  Zero Linden: so it would be come a parallel universe -- and that seems not so hot
[7:55]  Zero Linden: In the future we could see doing that - though at present the simulator code base really couldn't take advantage of two CPUs
[7:55]  Zero Linden: it is single threaded
[7:55]  lyndell Aleixandre: whats wrong with paralell universes?
[7:55]  Tree Kyomoon: would it be posslbe to at least have it so stuff you build past 768m doesnt explode?
[7:55]  Ravanne Sullivan: it would break up the community
[7:55]  Zero Linden: lyndell- nothing generally - but you more benefit by just putting a contentinent way off to the N/E/W/S
[7:56]  lyndell Aleixandre: what makes you assume that rav?
[7:56]  Ravanne Sullivan: even doing away with the ability to see who is online has had an effect on the social aspect of SL
[7:56]  Ravanne Sullivan: people would congregate in the seperate areas and not interact much if at all
[7:56]  Zero Linden: Tree- There are alot of design decisions in the current model that one might take to be "tunable" parameters - like object limit at 768m
[7:57]  Zero Linden: at present, we have no plans to tinker with them - we are all too focused on scaling and growth
[7:57]  Zero Linden: but it is certainly concievable that in the future there might be regions running on simulator software with different properties
[7:57]  lyndell Aleixandre: rav if people want to congregate they congregate . otherwise they dont .. thats how it works in rl and thats how it works in sl
[7:58]  Zero Linden: You bring up that
[7:58]  Tree Kyomoon: thanks zero, I just had to ask...
[7:58]  Zero Linden: there are many aspects of the "feature set" of SL that were conceived and built when the world was much smaller
[7:58]  Zero Linden: it may not be technologically possible to keep all those features exactly the same as we move toward a much much larger grid
[7:59]  Ravanne Sullivan: true but it would put a barrier to easy communications between the regions
[7:59]  Zero Linden: But I agree, these all have community implications
[7:59]  Zero Linden: on-line presence information is one that we will certainly revisit
[7:59]  Ravanne Sullivan: like two towns with a geological barriar between them
[7:59]  Zero Linden: we had to make the changes we did to handle the current explosive growth
[7:59]  Zero Linden: but we need to make presence work even better
[8:00]  Helena Lycia: Offering Tps working would be nice :)
[8:00]  Ravanne Sullivan: oh yes it sure would!
[8:00]  Zero Linden: yes
[8:01]  Tree Kyomoon: that is such a great line....we need to make presence work better.....the very essence of "being"
[8:01]  Zero Linden: there are large list of smaller feature improvements (restorations!) that would be great - and there is a group of engineers working on them
[8:01]  Ravanne Sullivan: my LM folder is becomeing unmanagable with everyone sending LMs insted of TPs
[8:01]  lyndell Aleixandre: back when i was here when SL was beta .. i remember there never used to be such bad delays on region crossings .. what changed from then architecturaly? excluding the number of attachments/scripts people wear causing the slowdowns ..
[8:01]  Summer Seale: i clean out my LM folder every night and have about 8 subfolders i organize all my LMs into.
[8:02]  Zero Linden: One big change that you saw with region crossing
[8:02]  Zero Linden: is that half the regions are no hosted in a colocation facility in Dallas
[8:02]  Zero Linden: the other half, still here in SF
[8:02]  Zero Linden: when you cross a region boundary that crosses colos it takes longer
[8:03]  lyndell Aleixandre: so ultimately .. the seperated agent process will speed up region crossings ?
[8:03]  Hugo Dalgleish: Is there any way to tell what sim is in which colo facility?
[8:03]  Tree Kyomoon: is there a way to find out where your region is?
[8:03]  Zero Linden: part of that is that we treat communication between our processes as trusted -- since when they were all in SF this was easy - they were all behind our firewall
[8:03]  Zero Linden: BUT, to extend this to Dallas, we need to route through a VPN - and that can get saturated
[8:03]  Helena Lycia: Do sim owners have any say about getting their connected sims into the same location?
[8:03]  Zero Linden: and it is slow even at the best of times
[8:03]  Zero Linden: SO
[8:04]  Zero Linden: one architectural change
[8:04]  Diogo Bailey: linden?
[8:04]  Ravanne Sullivan: You're using a VPN not a dedicated connection?
[8:04]  Diogo Bailey: where do i go for jobs? and money?
[8:04]  Zero Linden: that has to come is not requring implicit trust, and using HTTPS between sims
[8:04]  Zero Linden: Diogo - this is a tech. office hours
[8:04]  Zero Linden: check out help island public
[8:04]  lyndell Aleixandre: oh god thats horrible, LOL!..
[8:05]  Diogo Bailey: i just left the help island
[8:05]  Zero Linden: Helena - we've made some temporary changes to our allocation shceme to ensure that private estates all end up in the same colo
[8:05]  Zero Linden: you can use Help > About Second LIfe to find out what machine the region is running on
[8:06]  Zero Linden: like this is sim593
[8:06]  Ravanne Sullivan: I gave him a set of LMs to help him
[8:06]  Helena Lycia: Cool... The estate where I work is probably going to expand, and region crossing is already an issue for us
[8:06]  Zero Linden: sims with a number 2000 and above are in Dallas
[8:06]  Tree Kyomoon: ah ok cool
[8:06]  Zero Linden: Helena ask the concierge to make sure your regions are all in the same colo
[8:07]  lyndell Aleixandre: would you be able to post that inf on the wiki? it would be very useful for scripters
[8:07]  Summer Seale: just curious..what OS do you run the sims on? linux? windows?
[8:07]  lyndell Aleixandre: linux
[8:07]  Hugo Dalgleish: They're Linux, Summer
[8:07]  lyndell Aleixandre: 2.6
[8:07]  Summer Seale: i figured
[8:07]  Zero Linden: linux -
[8:07]  Ravanne Sullivan: DOS 6.11
[8:07]  Ravanne Sullivan giggles
[8:07]  Summer Seale: that's kinda neat
[8:07]  lyndell Aleixandre: with numa extensions
[8:07]  Summer Seale: hehe
[8:07]  lyndell Aleixandre: NUMA is it zero or have you moved ont somthing better?
[8:08]  Zero Linden: I will be posting this whole transcript
[8:08]  Summer Seale: so many of the lindens are actually in SF?
[8:09]  Zero Linden: I'm not sure we make use of NUMA in particular
[8:09]  Summer Seale is in SF, i was curious cuz i know that some lindens are hired wherever they live or something? i'm not looking to be one btw =) just in case you were wondering. i was just curious how it works. sounds like a great job tho.
[8:09]  Zero Linden: Summer - the main office is in SF - though there are Lindens all over the world, including devs in the UK
[8:09]  Summer Seale nodsnods ya i read about that recently on the blog
[8:10]  lyndell Aleixandre: any devs in aus ?
[8:10]  lyndell Aleixandre: (-tralia)
[8:10]  Zero Linden: not yet...
[8:10]  Zero Linden smiles
[8:11]  Tree Kyomoon: nice thing about AUS is you can have people working while you sleep
[8:11]  Tree Kyomoon: :)
[8:11]  Summer Seale: hehe
[8:11]  Summer Seale: sleep? =)
[8:11]  Zero Linden: Which reminds me, I picked this time as I thought it would be convienent for some non-US folks
[8:11]  Zero Linden: whare are people from?
[8:11]  Summer Seale: i'm in SF
[8:11]  Summer Seale: cole valley =)
[8:11]  Tree Kyomoon: eastern canada
[8:11]  Summer Seale: right near you guys hehe
[8:11]  Hugo Dalgleish: Seattle... I had a 6am meeting, thought I'd drop in here afterwards
[8:11]  Zero Linden waves at Summer out the window from North Beach
[8:11]  Summer Seale: lol hey =)
[8:11]  lyndell Aleixandre: im in australia .. and its 2:11am , yur lucky im a night owl ;-)
[8:12]  Zero Linden: I see - not a soul from Eurpoe - well, I suppose that idea failed!
[8:12]  Summer Seale: well
[8:12]  Helena Lycia: I'm in the UK
[8:12]  Helena Lycia: Being attacked by cats right now :)
[8:12]  Hugo Dalgleish: Oh, I'm *from* the UK, I just live in Seattle :)
[8:13]  Summer Seale: i help a ton of french newbies almost every night, unofficially. a lot of them are...thoroughly confused btw. i speak french fluently and i've been talking to them
[8:13]  Summer Seale: i go and make friends with them at the cooperation francaise.
[8:13]  Tree Kyomoon: Im just glad you are holding these, its so great to be able to communicate directly
[8:13]  Summer Seale: ya! i wanted to come to these for a few days now
[8:14]  Zero Linden: I'm gald to offfer them - at Linden we value transparency very highly -- and it seems natural to spend the time talking with residents, even about the deep tech -- after all
[8:14]  Zero Linden: many of our residents are deeply techincal
[8:14]  Summer Seale: ya i'm not but it just sounds so interesting
[8:14]  Tree Kyomoon: well, in the absence of communication is rumour and speculation
[8:15]  Tree Kyomoon: Ive notice a lot of "lore" in SL about the lindens in my short time being here
[8:15]  Ravanne Sullivan: Speaking of which, the ability for residents to talk to LL outside of things like this has gone way down
[8:16]  Zero Linden: Well, I can't speak to the community side of things - for me as a senior engineer here,
[8:16]  Ravanne Sullivan: Linden Answers was never great but at least there was the hope that Linden might someday read and respond to your issues
[8:16]  Zero Linden: the blog and now the office hours have increased my communication with residents tremendously over what
[8:16]  Zero Linden: I had a year ago
[8:16]  Summer Seale: i do love the blog <3
[8:17]  Zero Linden: I realize it is all imperfect
[8:17]  Tree Kyomoon: well, speaking from my experience as senior engineer at my company, I would love to have more direct interaction with my end users
[8:17]  Zero Linden: but I'm an old enough SL resident (well, my alt is) to remember when there were - gasp - 40 thousand residents
[8:17]  Tree Kyomoon: but our structure doesnt allow for it
[8:17]  Summer Seale: but so many complaints and you guys need a way to get praised btw....i was talking about that with a friend the other night. everyone is cranky with the problems and i am too sometimes, but i *really* appreciate it when you guys fix things and i wish those of us who actually care to remember could tell you guys a "thank you, job well done" when things go right again.
[8:17]  Zero Linden: The world is now almost 100x that!
[8:18]  Hugo Dalgleish: 13 days to 4,000,000 residents (according to the predictor globes in my office)
[8:18]  Ravanne Sullivan: the problem is the when things go wrong, even a little it can overshadow so much that is going well
[8:18]  Tree Kyomoon: 2 million people have joined since I was born, last november
[8:18]  Zero Linden: we now have almost as many poeple on-line at peak times than we had residents TOTAL 18 months ago
[8:19]  Helena Lycia: Do you think the infrastructure advances are keeping pace with the population growth?
[8:19]  Zero Linden: needless to say, Linden Lab has barely doubled in employees in that time
[8:19]  Tree Kyomoon: its the new religion!
[8:19]  Zero Linden: Helena - right to the point!
[8:19]  Zero Linden: Well -
[8:20]  Tree Kyomoon: we're sitting here arent we?
[8:20]  Zero Linden: we are trying - our dev team is basically working on three different time scales
[8:20]  Tree Kyomoon: :)
[8:20]  Zero Linden: there are folks working on the immediate dangers (userserver being a worry right now)
[8:20]  Zero Linden: there are people working on reducing load on the db over the next six months (like
[8:20]  Zero Linden: moving queries into web services, or splitting db tables)
[8:20]  Ravanne Sullivan: Yeah, right now you can predicte when problems are going to occur by watching the numbers of online residents
[8:20]  Summer Seale has a quick question too
[8:21]  Zero Linden: and then there are the folks working on the technology pieces that will keep it running a year from now
[8:21]  Helena Lycia: Certainly for me, SL has become a much slower beast in the year I've been here... if it weren't wor the FL viewer I'm not sure what I'd be doing right now
[8:21]  Zero Linden: I'm the director of the engineering studio that does the later
[8:21]  Helena Lycia: Through much of December I was confined to unpopulated sims
[8:21]  Summer Seale asks.
[8:21]  Summer Seale: oh! i was gonna ask something....more community oriented. there are a *ton* of casinos opening up....and quite frankly they're starting to spam the search just like with RL web pages. i'm wondering...can you guys limit that somehow? if not it'll ruin your search functionality. just a suggestion.
[8:22]  Summer Seale: i mean limit in search how they can spam the search tags.
[8:22]  Summer Seale: i'm not anti-casino...i mean i don't go to them or care but they're getting in the way of my DB searches and that kinda bugs me.
[8:22]  Ravanne Sullivan: make a casino tab in the search options?
[8:22]  Zero Linden: While I can imagine various technical solutions, all imperfect, that is more a of a community team issue -
[8:23]  Zero Linden: I'm not trying to pass the buck - but really, you don't want a wizend C++ coder
[8:23]  Summer Seale: ya i know it's not perfect but it's becoming an issue on the side. =)
[8:23]  Zero Linden: making social decisions!!!!
[8:23]  Summer Seale: hehe
[8:23]  Summer Seale: well just figured i'd ask.
[8:23]  Tree Kyomoon: yes, us nerds are not good at social decisions generally :)
[8:23]  Summer Seale: i'm all social. =)
[8:23]  Zero Linden: Robin Linden holds office hours now, as does Jesse - they would better people to talk with
[8:23]  Summer Seale: my business is being social to the max =)
[8:23]  Summer Seale: okies!
[8:23]  Summer Seale: thank you <3
[8:24]  Zero Linden: Well folks, I have just a few more minutes here (need to end on time today)
[8:24]  Zero Linden: Other deep-techy-geeky questions?
[8:25]  Tree Kyomoon: any hope of seeing new prim types?
[8:25]  Helena Lycia: I'll save the rest of mine for another time :)
[8:25]  Hugo Dalgleish: a timeline for conversion of the scripting engine to Mono would be useful...
[8:25]  Zero Linden: Not in the short term - but the architecture doesn't preclude it... though doens't make it particularly easy
[8:26]  Zero Linden: Hugo - alas, as Mono is an open source project, and we are dependent on parts of it that aren't done yet - timelines aren't possible!
[8:26]  Helena Lycia: Oh maybe one... Any chance of a method to allow objects to talk to each other without using chat or emails (maybe IMs)?
[8:26]  Hugo Dalgleish: np, I understand
[8:27]  Tree Kyomoon: yes, or passing more than an integer on rez
[8:27]  Tree Kyomoon: like a string or vectors
[8:27]  Hugo Dalgleish: there's Linked Messages if they're in a linked set... and you could go http -> web server -> XMLRPC
[8:27]  Tree Kyomoon: or a bunch of stuff
[8:27]  Zero Linden: YOu would mean objects not in the same sim? Becuase withing a region, chat on a high channel is probably more efficient than any IM solution could be
[8:27]  Zero Linden: for objects between regions
[8:27]  Helena Lycia: Allowing object to IM eachother rather than just agents would be great - unles of course it creates massive IM lag
[8:27]  Zero Linden: I think we'd like to open up HTTP inward to a prim
[8:27]  Zero Linden: then objects can just HTTP each other
[8:28]  Hugo Dalgleish: that would be very useful
[8:28]  Zero Linden: HTTP has proven to be pretty darn scalable, and efficeint for us
[8:28]  Helena Lycia: IMs would be more secure than chats
[8:28]  Zero Linden: not to mention the whole web!
[8:28]  Hugo Dalgleish: but you already have XML RPC to do inbound communications, would you eliminate that?
[8:28]  Summer Seale: lol ya that little world wide web thing
[8:28]  Tree Kyomoon: any hope of passing more complex information on rez?
[8:29]  Tree Kyomoon: rather than just a single int?
[8:29]  Zero Linden: not likely for now
[8:29]  Zero Linden: once we are able to opening up scripting - allow other languages perhaps, or extend LSL greatly to more rich data types, then almost certainly
[8:29]  Hugo Dalgleish: other languages would be... interesting
[8:30]  Helena Lycia: Just as long we it's not PERL
[8:30]  Summer Seale: that would be really awesome if you could
[8:30]  Summer Seale: lol i was just gonna say that
[8:30]  Helena Lycia hates PERL
[8:30]  Hugo Dalgleish: FORTRAN! uh, I mean php...
[8:30]  Zero Linden: Hugo - we couldn't eliminate XML-RPC inbound for legacy reasons - but we'd probably depricate it -
[8:30]  lyndell Aleixandre: zero .. what about moving the search functionality completely webbased .. instaid of having a client interface .. a mozilla embedded browser perhaps?
[8:30]  Tree Kyomoon: yeah, its just really laborious to make stuff without having the ability to dynamically generate scripts in objects
[8:30]  Zero Linden: it isn't very scalable in its current form
[8:30]  Summer Seale: i like it in game tho.
[8:31]  Tree Kyomoon: well thanks again Zero for coming
[8:31]  Summer Seale: thank you zero for the really awesome chat =)
[8:31]  Hugo Dalgleish: ok... I have a couple of projects I'm working on that depend on XML-RPC, if you're going to introduce HTTP to do inbound instead though, that'd be easier
[8:31]  Helena Lycia: Yes, thank you Zero :)
[8:32]  Zero Linden: getting all search data into a form that we can do much more of it web site would be great - and yes, in the viewer is crucial - but we do have mozilla in there....
[8:32]  Zero Linden smiles
[8:32]  Zero Linden: well all
[8:32]  Zero Linden: I have to go
[8:32]  Zero Linden: thanks for coming
[8:32]  Summer Seale: ao on
[8:32]  Hugo Dalgleish: Thanks Zero!
[8:32]  Ravanne Sullivan: thank you and take care
[8:32]  Summer Seale: ya thank you <3
[8:32]  lyndell Aleixandre: thx :)