User:CG Linden/2009-01-06

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Transcript of CG Linden's office hours:

[8:01] Lamorna Proctor: .. it's certainly my recollection that the problem only started after the introduction of Havok4
[8:03] CG Linden: . Hello Folks
[8:03] Lamorna Proctor: .. Good morning, CG
[8:03] Aargle Zymurgy: ... hey CG!
[8:03] Ellla McMahon: .... Hello CG :))
[8:03] Gellan Glenelg: ..... morning
[8:03] CG Linden: . (-;
[8:03] Aargle Zymurgy: ... oh, fun... I get to be a thorn between two roses.
[8:03] CG Linden: . Happy new Year, and all that goes with it
[8:04] Lamorna Proctor: .. thank you
[8:04] CG Linden: . do they really fall for that?
[8:04] Aargle Zymurgy: ... thanks CG
[8:04] Serene Jewell: ...... Hi. Happy New Year to you too!
[8:04] CG Linden: . thanks
[8:04] CG Linden: . so, lots of new stuff happening...
[8:05] Aargle Zymurgy: ... I'm all ears
[8:05] Aargle Zymurgy: ... um... all eyes.
[8:05] CG Linden: . Yesterday, the homesteads went live
[8:05] CG Linden pets the angry pitchfork
[8:05] Aargle Zymurgy: ... yes... and I'm happy in a way about that... performance seems better in the lab
[8:05] CG Linden: . we're now getting 1.25.3 ewdy
[8:05] CG Linden: . ready even
[8:05] CG Linden: . it's now on the preview grid
[8:06] Aargle Zymurgy: ... what's new and special with 1.25.3?
[8:06] CG Linden: . and QA is going to spend the rest of the week doing practic deploys
[8:06] CG Linden: . let me look this up...
[8:06] CG Linden: . lots and lots of stuff, way overdue
[8:07] CG Linden: . Hi Cummere, a happy new year to you too...
[8:07] CG Linden: . Ms Revenante
[8:07] Cummere Mayo: ....... hello
[8:07] Aargle Zymurgy puts his hand over Lam's mouth before she asks about the moving prim problem.
[8:07] Lamorna Proctor: .. That's allegedly a client-side bug
[8:07] Cummere Mayo: ....... revante?
[8:07] Cummere Mayo: ....... *revenante
[8:08] CG Linden: . Hold on...
[8:08] CG Linden: .
  • Camera fixes:
    • SVC-2049 : Camera zooms rapidly in adn out (yo-yo, pogo) with objects behind you
    • Camera can be confused by archways
  • Havok/Physics fixes
    • SVC-1179 : llPushObject applied to avatars is inconsistent
    • SVC-2511 : Serious Object-Avatar collision problems in 1.22.2
    • Moving a sitting avatar should follow object link rules
    • Cannot drop an attachment while sitting if the (0,0) parcel is full
    • SVC-2570 : Phantom Avatars - even when standing
    • SVC-2630 : No top collider info in region/estate tools
  • VWR-7198 : Inventory Loss after rezzing an coalesced object containing Linden plants and non-copy items in a place where not allowed to build trees
  • View:Property Lines and View:Land Owners shows everything as group owned even if it's not under 1.23.2.92647
  • SVC-578 : "save object back to object contents" no longer works
  • VWR-333 : "Unable to load gesture." or "Gesture is missing from database." on login
  • Home location icon on map can be changed without land access rights (at least on-screen, not in functionality
  • VWR-4067 : LLImageBase::resetLastError() (llimage.h) is not threadsafe under Linux (libstd++) and cause crashes sporadically
  • VWR-640 : Shift-drag to copy objects does not copy all settings
  • SVC-1467 : Getting permissions for scripts in child prims requires a dialog. Root prim does not.
  • Autoreturn can be circumvented by changing links in a script
  • VWR-4195 : Eject and Ban still available with Ban Access disabled in roles
  • Contents of duplicated objects do not change ownership
  • SVC-2925 : Instant Messages of certain lengths (object name + IM text) are not delivered with 1.24.1
  • SVC-1482 : add SHA1 function to LSL (llSHA1String)
  • Some simulator crash mode fixes
  • Internal Map server fixes
  • SVC-3207 : Click events are being discarded in Server 1.24.9
  • Server-side changes to allow objects to be restored to their last position (won't be fully available before client version 1.23)
  • Mono/scripting fixes:
    • SVC-3220 : Script Crash: System.Reflection.TargetParameterCountException
    • SVC-2975 : MONO - System.Reflection.TargetParameterCountException
    • SVC-1378 : Mono: NaN handling is strange
    • SVC-2631 : LSL multiline comments (Server Portion)
  • [Added 2008-10-31] SVC-3328: mono script : bad calculated 100*0.9 ==> 89 !
[8:09] CG Linden: . That;s about half of it, but the moist interesting parts
[8:09] Cummere Mayo: ....... this a new server releasE?
[8:09] CG Linden: . yes
[8:09] Cummere Mayo: ....... yay
[8:10] CG Linden: . so essentially, 1.25 fixes the collision problems and puts the combat back into combat sims
[8:10] Cummere Mayo: ....... yayayayayayay!
[8:10] Grid Crash Protection Box: Anatoliy Radikal, you are now shielded from the effects of any Grid crashes which might occur!
[8:10] CG Linden: . oh wow, poor Cummere
[8:10] Lamorna Proctor yawns
[8:10] CG Linden: . Saijanai is quite a lump :)
[8:10] Grid Crash Protection Box: Anatoliy Radikal, you are no longer protected from the vagaries of the Grid - beware!
[8:10] Cummere Mayo: ....... meh used to it
[8:10] Aargle Zymurgy: ... I thought the IM problem (string lenght) was already fixed
[8:10] Cummere Mayo: ....... half the lindens at traige try and squish me
[8:10] Morgaine Dinova: ........... 'Morning
[8:10] CG Linden: . awww
[8:11] Morgaine Dinova: ........... And Happy New Year :-)
[8:11] Cummere Mayo: ....... so when do we get 1.25? and is it a real deploy or another tease like last month
[8:11] CG Linden: . so, hopefully we'll be able to do a pilot roll of that next week
[8:11] Aargle Zymurgy: ... I like this one for its impenetrability: SVC-1378 : Mono: NaN handling is strange
[8:11] Lamorna Proctor prefers naan
[8:11] Morgaine Dinova: ........... lol
[8:11] CG Linden: . the problems discovered in the previous release have been fixed
[8:12] Aargle Zymurgy: ... Not aa Number bread?
[8:12] CG Linden: . as a side effect we got LLs first usable load testing harness...
[8:12] CG Linden: . so I guess there's some good coming from this.
[8:12] Morgaine Dinova: ........... That's great news
[8:12] Aargle Zymurgy: ... speaking of load testing... that was quite a weekend we went through
[8:12] CG Linden: . for the gritty details, go haunt Prospero's office hours, he'll be driving this
[8:13] CG Linden: . ah yes :)
[8:13] Cummere Mayo: ....... lol we jsut want collisions fixed without the grid breaking again
[8:13] CG Linden: . well, we had two firsts over the weekend
[8:13] CG Linden: . oe was that we broke the record on a Saturday for the first time ever
[8:13] CG Linden: . not by much (about 70)
[8:14] Saijanai Kuhn: ............ ... which were?
[8:14] CG Linden: . and of course sunday - I think we coukld have easily gotten more than 80k people, if we just culd handle them :)
[8:14] CG Linden: . but in spite of problems we still got up to 78,300
[8:14] Saijanai Kuhn: ............ ah concurrency
[8:14] CG Linden: . yes
[8:15] Ricken Flow: ............. a big story about second life came out in the washington post this weekend
[8:15] Aargle Zymurgy: ... oh... uh-oh... does that mean we have to worry about this coming weekend?
[8:15] CG Linden: . wow, lots of people I don't recognize
[8:15] CrystalShard Foo: .............. :3
[8:15] CG Linden: . Hello folks :)
[8:15] Morgaine Dinova: ........... It's pretty distressing that sim scalability hasn't kept pace with population growth.
[8:15] CrystalShard Foo: .............. Hai.
[8:15] CG Linden: . Happy NY etc...
[8:15] CG Linden: . actually, it's not sim scaling
[8:16] CG Linden: . it's back again to database scaling
[8:16] Phli Foxchase: ............... it's asset server scaling :)
[8:16] CG Linden: . no, assets are doing jyst fine
[8:16] Cummere Mayo: ....... database cant handel the load
[8:16] Aargle Zymurgy: ... btw, I've got a lag/perfomance question to squeeze in if that's appropriate at this point.
[8:16] Morgaine Dinova: ........... It's both together. You scalability is always limited by the weakest link in the chain.
[8:16] CG Linden: . sure
[8:16] Cummere Mayo: ....... sims are mostly fine, though i found an entriely new bug for qa to figure out lol
[8:17] Aargle Zymurgy: ... ok, when checking top scripts while testing Zyngo, I found that game was buried far behind the seats I had put out
[8:17] CG Linden: . I'll make a note to find out that one...
[8:17] CG Linden: . or actually...
[8:17] Aargle Zymurgy: ... it seems that the mere presence of the "changed" event (even in an unused state) produces high CPU consumption for the seats
[8:17] Gellan Glenelg: ..... you mean seats were high on top scripts?
[8:17] sl-ime ver1.2.1 [script:sl-ime fly_control]: Script run-time error
[8:17] sl-ime ver1.2.1 [script:sl-ime fly_control]: Bounds Check Error
[8:17] Aargle Zymurgy: ... yes... th eseats
[8:17] Lamorna Proctor: .. but only when sat upon
[8:18] Aargle Zymurgy: ... and someone told me it's releated to the individual sitting on it.
[8:18] Gellan Glenelg: ..... that's because their total script time includes the scripts contained in sitting avatars' attachments
[8:18] Lamorna Proctor: .. ah, maybe if they have loads of scripted attachments?
[8:18] Aargle Zymurgy: ... ah, Gellan, thanks. that makes sense now
[8:18] Aargle Zymurgy: ... aha! a good way to test a hud's performanc.
[8:18] Gellan Glenelg: ..... yep :)
[8:19] Aargle Zymurgy: ... ok, I'm happier now. I was just thinking I had made some VERY bad seats.
[8:19] Phli Foxchase: ............... CG, do you know if the landmarks & navigation project is still alive ?
[8:19] Lamorna Proctor: .. we can easily test it by wearing a loopy attachment
[8:19] Saijanai Kuhn is running a below standard Windows box in someone's office. a crash a minute if I'm lucky
[8:19] Cummere Mayo: ....... lol poor aargle
[8:20] Aargle Zymurgy: ... well, Cummere, it's a bit of a blow to a scripter's ego to think he had screwed up that badly.
[8:20] Lamorna Proctor strokes Aargle's leg
[8:20] CG Linden: . Phli, I don't know
[8:20] Cummere Mayo: ....... I know
[8:20] Aargle Zymurgy: ... ok, my stupid curiosity question is out of the say. sorry to interrupt so badly, CG
[8:20] Aargle Zymurgy: ... *way
[8:20] Morgaine Dinova: ........... We need some way of telling the sim not to send us stuff we don't want to render on low-end machines, and mobiles. That's needed for crowd scalability too.
[8:20] Cummere Mayo: ....... thats why i was giving you a few seconds sympathy
[8:20] CG Linden: . no no, that's an interesting question
[8:21] Saijanai Kuhn: ............ LOL scrambled text
[8:21] CG Linden: . and yeah, it does make a nice "bling tard" meter :)
[8:21] Gellan Glenelg: ..... hehe
[8:22] Aargle Zymurgy: ... I could just about kill for a dynamic tool that told me what a given script was doing to the server.
[8:22] CrystalShard Foo: .............. Actually, I do have a question about the rezzing priority of objects - I always thought that objects closer to the avatar get higher priority, but it doesnt seem to actually be like that in recent versions?
[8:22] Cummere Mayo: ....... aargle have you asked on jira for one?
[8:22] CG Linden: . well, one of the things we slipped into 1.25 is stuff to measure scropt performance
[8:22] Cummere Mayo: ....... if so send link, ill vote
[8:22] Aargle Zymurgy: ... Cummere, no, I haven't. but, you're right, I should
[8:22] CG Linden: . Crystalshard, the rendering order depends on many things
[8:23] Lamorna Proctor: .. Check it's not there already. There are so many duplicate issues
[8:23] CG Linden: . One big problem is that many builds abuse alpha textures
[8:23] Aargle Zymurgy: ... being made estate manager at my old location made a big difference to my understanding of building things.
[8:23] Morgaine Dinova: ........... Rendering order != rezzing order. Need to separate out download from rendering, they're different issues.
[8:23] CrystalShard Foo: .............. Yea, i'm refering to rezzing order.
[8:23] CG Linden: . not sure what you mean with rezzing
[8:24] CrystalShard Foo: .............. The priority of which prims are sent to the client first, from the sim
[8:24] CG Linden: . do you man llRezObject()?
[8:24] Close Range: ................ Paulo Rodas [23m]
[8:24] Saijanai Kuhn: ............ Zero's been talking about having a separate pipeline for games-oriented sims with special rendering needs
[8:24] Morgaine Dinova: ........... Do sims order the objects they send at all, using any known metric?
[8:24] Lamorna Proctor: .. hmmm, that's interesting, Saijanai
[8:25] CG Linden: . well, they do send only those in the "interest list" of the AV - i don't know in which order they send them
[8:25] Cummere Mayo hates the currant rendering order. 99% of time everything far is rendered first even textrues BEFORE objects clsoeby are rendered. amkes her want to kill people sometimes.... or at least take frying pans upside certain dev's heads
[8:25] CG Linden: . the interest list is defined manly by the direction the AV is looking
[8:25] Morgaine Dinova: ........... So it's AV-driven? Sim doesn't send until somethign is requested, so AV is in driving seat?
[8:25] CG Linden: . yes
[8:25] Prissa Flower: ................. Crystalshard has crashed and is no longer here
[8:25] Cummere Mayo thinks if thats the case she needs a way better seat
[8:25] CG Linden: . or rather, it's driven by the location and orientation of the AV
[8:26] Aargle Zymurgy: ... I had always assumed so since you can set draw distance.
[8:26] Morgaine Dinova: ........... That's good -- in that case it should be possible, with a slight mod, to let the agent control the sim to NOT send stuff it doesn't want.
[8:26] CG Linden: . ok, today I have limited time... so let's keep moving...
[8:26] Cummere Mayo: ....... so cg why is it the lucky chair and the avi closest to you are aleays the last two things loaded?
[8:26] Morgaine Dinova: ........... Poor Sai, yoyoing like made
[8:26] Aargle Zymurgy: ... there are some places I go that I deliberately lower draw distance (Juke Joine) and others I increase (Greenies)
[8:26] Lamorna Proctor: .. But I do see Gellan's point. Often when I land somewhere, far off objects appear more quickly than those near me
[8:27] Prissa Flower: ................. welcome back Crystal :)
[8:27] CG Linden: . because there is an "if llAvatarOnSitTarget() == "Cummere Mayo" then llAnnyTheHeckOutOfher();" in the code
[8:27] CrystalShard Foo: .............. Thanksie. Prissa sent me the log I missed.
[8:27] Lamorna Proctor: .. LOL
[8:27] Cummere Mayo: ....... LMAO
[8:27] Morgaine Dinova: ........... A related issue is texture DE-rezzing ... that's been with us for years, textures going away after they've already arrived in full res.
[8:27] CrystalShard Foo: .............. So direction, with distance cap. Question is, what happens inside that region. :3 I may poke Vektor about this
[8:27] CG Linden: . I believe the order in which AV data arrives is essentially random
[8:28] Cummere Mayo: ....... that wouldnt explain why it wont rez becuase i cant sit on it untill it rezzes
[8:28] Aargle Zymurgy mutters something about llDetectedGroupKey()
[8:28] Cummere Mayo: ....... but good try cg *nearly fell out of her chair*
[8:28] Lamorna Proctor: .. That's other good point Morgaine, and it often happens when you wear a new item of clothing
[8:28] Lamorna Proctor: .. it rezzes after a while, and then goes blurry again
[8:28] CG Linden: . there are several open jiras on how the texture cache is not doing well
[8:29] Saijanai Kuhn: ............ we have a cache?
[8:29] Morgaine Dinova: ........... Old and new, textures go away all by themselves. But I think the long-standing bug has been found, read a JIRA before Xmas
[8:29] CG Linden: . yes, there seem to be several cycles in the whole process, I've observed that too
[8:29] CrystalShard Foo: .............. We dooo.
[8:29] Cummere Mayo: ....... yes sai.... though..... it never works so...
[8:29] CG Linden: . the viewr is supposed to cache textures, even objects
[8:29] Saijanai Kuhn: ............ I know I know. Being silly
[8:29] CG Linden: . there is a whole "llvfs" filesystem that;s supposed to keep a local cache of stuff
[8:30] CG Linden: . ok, hook line sinker... moving on
[8:30] Lamorna Proctor waits with baited breathe to hear about viewer upgrades
[8:30] Morgaine Dinova: ........... Stryker found a mathematical bug in the algorithm you use to determine if the best res has arrived or not.
[8:30] CG Linden: . there is a new viewer RC coming out this week
[8:30] Cummere Mayo: ....... yay? and new nightlies?
[8:30] Aargle Zymurgy: ... \o/
[8:30] Aargle Zymurgy: ... colspan="17" style="white-space:normal;" Yay!
[8:30] Aargle Zymurgy: ... / \
[8:30] CG Linden: . yes, there shiold be new nightlies too
[8:30] Aargle Zymurgy looks at Cummere... new nighties?
[8:31] CG Linden: . and this one contains the fix for Lam's favorite bug :)
[8:31] Lamorna Proctor: .. woohoo
[8:31] Cummere Mayo smirks to aargle "i dun wear em"
[8:31] CG Linden: . or at least I hope it's the fix
[8:31] Lamorna Proctor: .. i hope so
[8:31] Lamorna Proctor: .. when is it due to be released?
[8:32] CG Linden: . if you're really impatient, Lam, you should become a member of the BSI program so you can get nightly builds from the RC branch
[8:32] CG Linden: . otherwise, you'll have to wait 'til Tursday probably
[8:32] Lamorna Proctor: .. np, i can wait :)
[8:32] Cummere Mayo thinks nightlie is a misnomer. more like weekly
[8:33] CG Linden: . well, in theory it should be everytime something gets checked in... but Ramzi probably throttles it
[8:33] Cummere Mayo: ....... she does
[8:33] CG Linden: . oh, we have a new viewer release manager starting
[8:33] CG Linden: . Ramzi's a he :)
[8:33] CG Linden: . even inworld
[8:33] CG Linden: . but the new viewer release manager is Dessie Linden :)
[8:33] Cummere Mayo: ....... meh sorry i cant keep the genders of all 100+ lindens i know straight
[8:34] Cummere Mayo: ....... be glad i can get the names
[8:34] CG Linden: . I'll see if I can't get her to say hi, but I bet the poor thing is drowning from the firehose
[8:34] Aargle Zymurgy: ... what gender is Torley THIS minute? :-D
[8:34] Prissa Flower: ................. ugh
[8:34] CrystalShard Foo: .............. Cocumber.
[8:34] Cummere Mayo smiles sweetly at gc
[8:35] Morgaine Dinova: ........... Torley's current gender is green + shocking pink.
[8:35] Morgaine Dinova: ........... :-)
[8:35] CG Linden looks around to see who gc is
[8:35] CG Linden: . ok, I've got 15 minutes for questions
[8:36] Morgaine Dinova: ........... CG: question: what did Phil mean when he said "SL is aiming for photorealism" on UK TV last year? Which aspect of visual quality?
[8:36] Cummere Mayo: ....... so is dessie brand new to LL or getting a promote? and whats happening to the the last linden whose soul was devoured in that position?
[8:36] Aargle Zymurgy seriously ponders coming up with a silly question
[8:37] CG Linden: . I don't know - I suppose he meant what he said, but not clear when we'll get there, Phil
[8:37] CG Linden: . Morgaine i mean
[8:37] CG Linden: . Dessie is a brand new Linden
[8:37] CrystalShard Foo: .............. " Tito Gomez: Jeska, we have beautiful faces, beautiful bodies. Can we look forward to beautiful feet in the future? It's such a turn off! Gracias"
[8:37] Morgaine Dinova: ........... Which aspects of video quality *could* improve in that direction though?
[8:38] CrystalShard Foo: .............. " Philip Linden: Tito... send me a doc with details on what beautiful feet mean to you."
[8:38] CrystalShard Foo: .............. ^^ that is my question :3
[8:38] Lamorna Proctor: .. Just look at mine, Crystal :)
[8:38] Prissa Flower: ................. the last feet upgrade we had was like v1.1
[8:38] Prissa Flower: ................. Yea Lamorna, scary
[8:38] CG Linden: . well, lots of chatter about improving the AV meshes, and also providing Mesh uploads
[8:39] Lamorna Proctor: .. that would be very good
[8:39] Aargle Zymurgy: ... that latter will be beyond fantastic
[8:39] CG Linden: . not truely on the map for 2009, but people are thinking about it
[8:39] Lamorna Proctor: .. i want it
[8:39] Cummere Mayo: ....... i think andrew talked about meshes lately
[8:39] Lamorna Proctor: .. any new scripting features coming in the next few months you can tell us about?
[8:39] Morgaine Dinova: ........... Running all my screens in 1920x1200, SL is looking pretty poor visually, except the Windlight reflections. Really needs some visual improvement, landscape in particular, it's so shabby.
[8:39] Lamorna Proctor: .. how about llTextBox completion?
[8:40] CG Linden: . well, kelly's back from paternity leave, so we'll see http-in get another boost
[8:40] Morgaine Dinova: ........... Ie. it's the same as 4 years ago. We need visual progress.
[8:40] Capability Frog: .................. WillI ever be able to script stuff in C#, now that we have mono, or am I living in a world of fantasy?
[8:40] Aargle Zymurgy: ... yeah, that llTextBox seems like it should be very simple, and VERY useful.
[8:40] CrystalShard Foo: .............. CG, yea, I told him he's my personal hero ?
[8:40] CG Linden: . new notifications framework is working its way through the process
[8:40] Catherine Pfeffer: ................... for peter's sake, no C# please
[8:41] CG Linden: . that's the thing with the blue popups and unders
[8:41] CG Linden: . what's wrong with C#?
[8:41] Aargle Zymurgy: ... I'd kill for having C# access. it's not minor
[8:41] Capability Frog glowers at Catherine
[8:41] CrystalShard Foo: .............. C# is actually ok. o.O
[8:41] Catherine Pfeffer: ................... defined by microsoft.
[8:41] CrystalShard Foo: .............. Another question into the mix: Shadow branch merge into official? ;D
[8:41] 01 Hifeng: .................... C# is scary and looks bad -_-
[8:41] Aargle Zymurgy: ... and C was defined by Bell Labs at one point. it's still a good language.
[8:41] Lamorna Proctor: .. it would be nice to have a professional programming language :)
[8:41] CG Linden: . not sure.
[8:42] CG Linden: . not sure about shadow branch
[8:42] Morgaine Dinova: ........... They're just languages, tools, get over it people. The Imprudence viewer will support all languages for its client-side plugin scripts.
[8:42] Gellan Glenelg: ..... even esperanto? ;P
[8:42] Morgaine Dinova: ........... Yeah, even lolcat
[8:42] CrystalShard Foo: .............. 01 - i'm sure that you'll be able to keep using LSL. Mono should be able to eat them both.
[8:42] Aargle Zymurgy: ... placxas al mi programi Esperante.
[8:42] Lamorna Proctor wants to have COBOL then :)
[8:42] CrystalShard Foo: .............. I demand LOGO.
[8:42] Cummere Mayo: ....... cg any chance of seeing http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-5447 implemented this year? for those like me?
[8:42] Prissa Flower: ................. I want Hypercard
[8:42] Gellan Glenelg: ..... does this mean I need to re-learn FORTRAN?
[8:43] Aargle Zymurgy: ... new object oriented version of COBOL: ADD ONE TO COBOL.
[8:43] Morgaine Dinova: ........... OpenCOBOL runs fine. When I said *all*, I meant all.
[8:43] CrystalShard Foo: .............. zomg hypercard
[8:43] Catherine Pfeffer: ................... of course, but then why not java ? visual basic ? fortran ? a virtual machine can run many things, that does not thing those things are good
[8:43] CG Linden: . Don't know, Cummere
[8:43] Catherine Pfeffer: ................... *that does not mean
[8:43] 01 Hifeng: .................... pyyython? :o
[8:43] CG Linden: . there was some talk abou supporting ironpython or something like it...
[8:43] Catherine Pfeffer feels she just opened the box of pandora
[8:44] CG Linden: . but viewer side scripting is being spec'ed out yet
[8:44] Aargle Zymurgy: ... Catherine, it's that C# essentially makes mono output.
[8:44] Morgaine Dinova: ........... We're working on it strongly, CG
[8:44] Close Range: ................ Eliza Cabassoun [27m]
[8:44] Cummere Mayo: ....... cg can i bribe you to whisper in ears that one is a good ideA?
[8:44] Cummere Mayo tries to look all cute and stuff
[8:44] CrystalShard Foo: .............. Well on the more serious side... if there's one thing thats been onmy wish list for ages - is support for opening GUI widgets on the client without having to resort to building an entire UI toolkit with prims on the HUD surface
[8:44] CG Linden: . you mean spellchecking?
[8:45] Catherine Pfeffer: ................... since when the choice is decided by the ways you have to run it ?
[8:45] Cummere Mayo: ....... yesh
[8:45] Catherine Pfeffer: ................... the choice of a language
[8:45] Lamorna Proctor wants to put a curse on all spell-chequers
[8:45] CG Linden: . well, you can get people to vote on it.
[8:45] Close Range: ................ Eliza Cabassoun [30m]
[8:46] CG Linden: . trouble is that it does add more code, especially considering it has to work for 9 languages or something
[8:46] CG Linden: . so I'd say unlikely in 2009
[8:46] Prissa Flower: ................. spell checker for SL is a waste of time and money
[8:46] Lamorna Proctor: .. I strgonly agree with Prissa
[8:46] CG Linden: . QA effort for it would be immense
[8:46] CrystalShard Foo: .............. we dnt ned spl cheker.
[8:46] Cummere Mayo: ....... i storngly disagree
[8:46] Lamorna Proctor: .. exctly, we cn alys nderstnd peple
[8:46] CG Linden: . and that's the problem we have right now, we need to be careful how we use QA
[8:47] Cummere Mayo: ....... for one reason alone mispellings confuse peopel trying to translate
[8:47] Aargle Zymurgy: ... after all, what is it going 2 do 4 all the l33t people who deliberately type wrong?
[8:47] Morgaine Dinova: ........... Spell checkers will be one of millions of things you can do in client-side scripts, so keep an eye on progress in Imprudence.
[8:47] Catherine Pfeffer: ................... does LL really need to spend development effort on adding a new language, while LSL is there, is cool, and we while we keep hearing there is not enough developer resource for this patch, for this feature, for that functionality ?
[8:47] CG Linden: . I'm not saying it;s a bad feature, but I'm saying that there are probably many more wothy causes to send resources into
[8:47] Prissa Flower: ................. Cummere you are talking about an extreme minority
[8:47] CrystalShard Foo: .............. Sorry Cummere - but I dont see autotranslators as enough of a reason to work an immense effort of QAing a spellchecker service into the client thats way too feature packed as it is
[8:47] XLR8RRICK Hudson: ..................... Olny srmat poelpe can raed tihs.
I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg.
[8:47] Prissa Flower: ................. yea really
[8:47] CG Linden: . Catherine, the nice thing about mono is that it makes adding C# very very easy
[8:47] Aargle Zymurgy: ... " LSL is there, is cool" omg.... hardly the adjective I'd choose.
[8:48] Capability Frog: .................. Yay!
[8:48] CG Linden: . in fact, we have working code in the lab for it already
[8:48] Capability Frog does a happy dance
[8:48] CrystalShard Foo: .............. CG awesome :3
[8:48] 01 Hifeng: .................... lsl... um, no.
[8:48] Close Range: ................ Eliza Cabassoun [29m]
[8:48] CG Linden: . the main problem is that one needs to write a proper wrapper library aroind the LSL calls
[8:48] Capability Frog: .................. I love you CG.
[8:48] Cummere Mayo: ....... lol prissa try working at one of the duel langauge mentoring statiosn youll see the need for spellchecking within five minutes
[8:48] Morgaine Dinova: ........... CrystalShard: exactly --- which is why Impudence's scripts aren't built into the client --- it's far too bloated already.
[8:49] Catherine Pfeffer: ................... "it's easy to implement... but we have to rewrite all libraries".... lol, ok
[8:49] CG Linden: . and yes, since that is a big deal, it will not happen in the first half of 2009
[8:49] CG Linden: . no, not rewrite
[8:49] CG Linden: . wrap
[8:49] CG Linden: . what;s the point of having an OO language of the library calls are all static
[8:49] Lamorna Proctor: .. any progress on proper transaction notifications, CG? e.g. money_given and object_given events?
[8:49] Catherine Pfeffer: ................... wrap of rewrite, if that eats developer resources, that's a bad idea, honestly
[8:49] CG Linden: . that is on our list of technical must-dos, and the code to enable them is working its way into the process
[8:50] Catherine Pfeffer: ................... ok.
[8:50] CG Linden: . I can't yet tell when they will become user visible, but there is a chance that late 2009 you may see something
[8:50] Lamorna Proctor: .. good, if that was an answer to me, CG?
[8:50] Aargle Zymurgy: ... well, Catherine, honestly, I'm tired of going: mylist = llListReplaceList( mylist, [newvalue], 5, 5 ); .....
[8:50] CG Linden: . yes, Lam, was taliing about money
[8:50] Lamorna Proctor: .. great
[8:50] Aargle Zymurgy: ... instead of a far simpler: mylist[5] = newvalue;
[8:50] CrystalShard Foo: .............. Well.. dont kill me please...
[8:51] CrystalShard Foo: .............. But I think that adding array cell support into LSL is doable without going full C# ;)
[8:51] CG Linden: . ok, sorry I have to cut it short, one last question and i have to go :)
[8:51] CrystalShard Foo: .............. Not that there's anything wrong with C#
[8:51] CG Linden: . honestly, we really don't want to do anything to lsl anymore if we can avoid it
[8:51] Catherine Pfeffer: ................... aargle : correct. although adding a new lanbguage was not the only solution to that problem. but ok, if it's already decided, i'll shut up.
[8:52] Prissa Flower: ................. See you later CG
[8:52] Morgaine Dinova: ........... There's a progress rate mismatch here. We're talking about minor additions not making it in during 2009, while community work is proceeding in parallel at 50 times the rate. A problem.
[8:52] CrystalShard Foo: .............. CG - you mean the language syntax or the VM?
[8:52] Lamorna Proctor: .. Thanks, CG
[8:52] CG Linden: . well, you will find out the hard way that things aren' that simple, Morgaine :)
[8:52] Gellan Glenelg: ..... ty CG
[8:52] Catherine Pfeffer: ................... thanks CG
[8:52] CrystalShard Foo: .............. And thanks :3
[8:52] CG Linden: . but pity I need to go...
[8:52] Capability Frog: .................. Cheers Mr. Linden
[8:52] CG Linden: . need to transport wife to airport
[8:52] Morgaine Dinova: ........... CG: it's engineering ... if one way isn't simple, find a better way :-)
[8:53] CG Linden: . we'll have that discussion some other time.
[8:53] Lamorna Proctor: .. yes
[8:53] CG Linden: . I remember very well how the community was screaming "Noooo no new featurs, stabilize first"
[8:53] CrystalShard Foo: .............. They still do xD
[8:53] CG Linden: . I guess having them scream the other way is a sign of success :)
[8:54] Morgaine Dinova: ........... No point really discussing it ... the community will simply do it, and the question is whether LL can keep up :-))
[8:54] Catherine Pfeffer: ................... I still do scream for that ;-). That was my point.
[8:54] CG Linden: . (-;
[8:54] CG Linden: . one advantage of being old is experience :)
[8:54] Morgaine Dinova: ........... That's my advantage too
[8:54] CG Linden: . have a great day folks
[8:54] Aargle Zymurgy: ... well, I've been happy as a clam about how things have improved.
[8:54] CG Linden: . gotta go
[8:54] Lamorna Proctor agrees
[8:54] Aargle Zymurgy: ... thanks again, CG
[8:54] Lamorna Proctor: .. bye CG
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