User:Benjamin Linden/Office Hours/2007 Jun 12

Transcript of Benjamin Linden's office hours:

[10:00]	Benjamin Linden:	I have to run to a meeting. good luck!
[10:00]	BigPapi Linden:	I really hate the "can't login for 5 minutes bug".
[10:00]	Torley Linden:	BigPapi, see if you can manually clear presence next time that happens
[10:00]	BigPapi Linden:	Tried that.
[10:00]	BigPapi Linden:	Didn't help.
[10:00]	Torley Linden:	:(
[10:00]	Zen Linden:	hmmm... maybe i can take that as a blacklight task some time
[10:00]	Bridie Linden:	https://jira.lindenlab.com/browse/SL-44630 "validate_framebuffer_object() crashes on ATI" [12:56pm] jeffbot: https://jira.lindenlab.com/browse/SL-44195 "Water shader falls back to software on ATI"
[10:00]	Pastrami Linden:	palmer you sick?
[10:00]	Zen Linden:	a bit... but getting better
[10:00]	Pastrami Linden:	yeah you sound a little "I need tea"
[10:00]	Pastrami Linden:	:)
[10:00]	Bridie Linden:	did we do compatibility merges yet?
[10:00]	Brad Linden:	bridie: compatibility with 1.17?
[10:00]	Bridie Linden:	yes
[10:00]	Brad Linden:	no we have not merged yet
[10:00]	Torley Linden:	sounds good
[10:00]	Zen Linden:	yep
[10:00]	Zen Linden:	awesome
[10:00]	Bridie Linden:	cool
[10:00]	Torley Linden:	good to know
[10:00]	Pastrami Linden:	lemme check....
[10:00]	Bridie Linden:	https://osiris.lindenlab.com/mediawiki/index.php/Windlight_Project
[10:00]	Bridie Linden:	were there jira numbers?
[10:00]	Bridie Linden:	in a landslide
[10:00]	Torley Linden:	hehe
[10:00]	Rob Linden:	stepping away from my desk for a bit
[10:00]	Pastrami Linden:	https://osiris.lindenlab.com/mediawiki/index.php/Windlight_Project
[10:00]	Zen Linden:	sl-44519
[10:00]	Torley Linden:	thanks Palmer
[10:00]	Zen Linden:	is the file format jira task
[10:00]	Torley Linden:	https://jira.lindenlab.com/browse/SL-44638 - new day cycle graphic
[10:00]	Pastrami Linden:	I'd vote yes
[10:00]	Pastrami Linden:	can you say that again it didn't come through for me
[10:00]	Pastrami Linden:	Dave are we just putting the moon opposite side of the sun?
[10:00]	BigPapi Linden:	That's the plan for now.
[10:00]	Bridie Linden:	QA
[10:00]	Pastrami Linden:	coo
[10:00]	Torley Linden:	hee
[10:00]	Pastrami Linden:	bridie will you be around for 2 secs?
[10:00]	Pastrami Linden:	cool
[10:00]	Pastrami Linden:	jira questions
[10:00]	Pastrami Linden:	thx
[10:00]	BigPapi Linden:	later
[10:00]	-- End of Log ---
[10:00]	Unable to create requested object. Please try again.
[10:00]	Benjamin Linden:	morning!
[10:00]	Squirrel Wood:	Morning ^^
[10:00]	Qie Niangao smiles. "Good morning, Benjamin"
[10:01]	Stevex Janus:	morning
[10:01]	Squirrel Wood:	looks like a quiet round today ^^
[10:01]	Chaley May:	hi
[10:01]	Squirrel Wood:	Yellow
[10:01]	Benjamin Linden:	it sometimes takes people a while to show up
[10:02]	Benjamin Linden:	hi Chaley
[10:02]	Benjamin Linden:	good to see you as always Squirrel
[10:02]	Benjamin Linden:	hi Qie and Stevex
[10:02]	Benjamin Linden:	Qie, were you here last week?
[10:03]	Chaley May:	Qie seems like someone else :)
[10:03]	Qie Niangao:	oh, probably my alt, Gao... although he might have missed last week
[10:04]	Benjamin Linden:	ah ok :-)
[10:04]	Benjamin Linden:	so where did we leave off last week
[10:04]	Benjamin Linden:	Squirrel were you the one who wanted to discuss groups?
[10:04]	Benjamin Linden:	hi Taja
[10:04]	Benjamin Linden:	long time no see!
[10:04]	Taja Beatty:	hello Benjamin
[10:04]	Squirrel Wood:	hmm..
[10:04]	Taja Beatty:	yes it has been a while
[10:04]	Squirrel Wood:	dun 'amember ^^
[10:05]	Taja Beatty:	nice to see you again finally I made one of your office hours
[10:05]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, I'm happy to see it
[10:05]	Benjamin Linden:	just to let everyone know before I forget
[10:05]	Benjamin Linden:	I moved Thursdays office hours to 3pm
[10:05]	Benjamin Linden:	hopefully this will give more people a chance to attend
[10:06]	Chaley May:	what was the old time?
[10:06]	Benjamin Linden:	10am, same as today
[10:06]	Squirrel Wood:	discussions... if you want to discuss groups... no problem. If you want to discuss the topics of last weeks pizza.. I'm good with that as well ;)
[10:06]	Chaley May:	ok
[10:06]	Benjamin Linden:	it was easier for me to remember :-)
[10:06]	Benjamin Linden:	hi Drew
[10:06]	Drew Dwi:	morning
[10:07]	Benjamin Linden:	we were just talking about what we should discuss today
[10:07]	Drew Dwi:	button that enables one to ignore group chat for a specific group!
[10:07]	Squirrel Wood:	Why do virtual roller coasters make people feel sick after some time? ^^
[10:08]	Benjamin Linden:	actually Drew, I think that may be enabled as part of voice chat
[10:08]	Squirrel Wood:	Buttons! I'd like to see a button bar of sorts with "programmable" buttons ?
[10:08]	Benjamin Linden:	there are a number of new group roles
[10:09]	Benjamin Linden:	do you mean like a HUD, Squirrel, or something that's actually built in to the viewer?
[10:09]	Squirrel Wood:	something that's built into the viewer that, for example, lets you automatically open several group chat windows for groups yo usually talk on or that auto-sets a certain windlight profile or....
[10:10]	Drew Dwi:	hmmm
[10:10]	Stevex Janus:	How about adding a feature to help beginners customize thier avitar.
[10:10]	Benjamin Linden:	sort of like the bookmarks toolbar in a browser?
[10:10]	Squirrel Wood:	basically some sort of quick-buttons that one can assign one of a number of provided funtions to
[10:10]	Drew Dwi:	I like the style of the new communications button in the beta, but I think the change to the speakers button was bad because before I could just tell someone, push the speakers button, but now its the weird looking one next to talk.
[10:10]	Stevex Janus:	The randomzie function is just too random.
[10:10]	Benjamin Linden:	that's a great idea, Stevex, I was just discussing that with someone
[10:11]	Squirrel Wood:	Yes. Something like "bookmarks" basically
[10:11]	Drew Dwi:	bookmarks pulling up your list of landmarks? hmhmh
[10:11]	Benjamin Linden:	we really need to make avatar customization more accessible to beginning users
[10:11]	Stevex Janus:	I was thinking of instaead of complitely unrelated randomzied changes, make it a panel of random offset 3x3 and then let the user choose the change
[10:11]	Benjamin Linden:	most people go buy their appearance anyway :-)
[10:12]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, that's along the lines of what we were thinking too
[10:12]	Benjamin Linden:	sort of constrained choices that let you build a variety of good-looking avatars
[10:12]	Squirrel Wood:	I don't know if you have ever played Horizons - Empire of Istaria but there you had button bars where you could "program" a list of actions for each button. like, "Equip item X", "Cast Spell Y", "Heal selected player"
[10:13]	Benjamin Linden:	squirrel, there is work being done this quarter to make the UI "scriptable"
[10:13]	Benjamin Linden:	which would make your idea possible
[10:13]	Squirrel Wood:	Cool ^^
[10:13]	Benjamin Linden:	hi Christian
[10:13]	Christian Colville:	hi Ben
[10:14]	Christian Colville:	got my textures back grins
[10:14]	Benjamin Linden:	Drew, interesting feedback on the speakers button
[10:14]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, it's great to see you not all black, Christian :-0
[10:14]	Drew Dwi:	yeah we wound up taking a picture and drawing a big arrow in paint to show them :P
[10:14]	Benjamin Linden:	except you're barefoot! :-)
[10:14]	Drew Dwi:	i'd show you but its still on the beta grid heh
[10:15]	Christian Colville:	grins need to get some decent shoes
[10:15]	Benjamin Linden:	hi Wyn
[10:15]	Christian Colville:	what're we talking about?
[10:15]	Taja Beatty:	what is it with people wanting others in shoes
[10:15]	Benjamin Linden:	oh hey Khamon, you snuck in
[10:15]	Benjamin Linden:	didn't see you
[10:15]	Taja Beatty:	I like to feel the coolness on my feet
[10:15]	Wyn Galbraith smiles, "Good morningish"
[10:16]	Qie Niangao wants sculptie toes!
[10:16]	Benjamin Linden:	we were discussing a variety of feature enhancements and suggestions
[10:16]	Benjamin Linden:	easier avatar customization
[10:16]	Christian Colville:	ok
[10:16]	Benjamin Linden:	Squirrel had an idea for adding a programmable toolbar that could do macro type stuff
[10:16]	Wyn Galbraith:	That's an interesting thought
[10:16]	Benjamin Linden:	and Drew was giving feedback on the chatterbox and voice chat UI
[10:17]	Benjamin Linden:	specifically that he didn't like that the text label was removed
[10:17]	Drew Dwi:	^^
[10:17]	Christian Colville:	ok
[10:17]	Benjamin Linden:	we actually went back and forth on that
[10:17]	Squirrel Wood:	easier customization.. mayhaps give new players a choice of a variety of predefined characters of all genders, forms and sizes and then let them do further cusomization like.. "longer/shorter legs", "smaller/bigger head" , ..
[10:17]	Benjamin Linden:	because the text label wasn't very good (people confused it with "audio speakers")
[10:17]	Christian Colville:	oh ok
[10:17]	Drew Dwi:	if could put more text on button many
[10:17]	Drew Dwi:	like speaking now
[10:17]	Drew Dwi:	or speakers list
[10:17]	Drew Dwi:	-many +maybe :X
[10:18]	Squirrel Wood:	Sort of by asking questions.. "Is your character male? [yes/no]", "Is he/she/it tall? [yes/no]" and the like
[10:18]	Christian Colville:	that would be easier initially I guess
[10:18]	Wyn Galbraith:	I'm wondering how it will be for those who are using voice and those who are not, for example, if we have a person who is deaf and cannot use the speakers, how are they going to know what the others are saying?
[10:19]	Drew Dwi:	they wont
[10:19]	Taja Beatty:	that is true Wyn...I rarely use speakers...my hubby does not like to hear talking
[10:19]	Taja Beatty:	so I would rather type
[10:19]	Wyn Galbraith:	That would force them to reveal a limitation they may not want to reveal in SL. I operate muted 90% of the time.
[10:19]	Drew Dwi:	yeah but thats a choice preference, not alot LL can do about that, they will just be aware that in voice enabled places they might miss some stuff
[10:19]	Benjamin Linden:	I've been thinking about voice, particularly when it comes to office hours
[10:20]	Taja Beatty:	but how would you know they are speaking in voice
[10:20]	Drew Dwi:	they would still see the white dot I believe, and it would show green
[10:20]	Benjamin Linden:	I may actually continue using text chat
[10:20]	Wyn Galbraith:	Maybe in the caption tags there could be a little speaker.
[10:20]	Drew Dwi:	text chat is alot better for logging too
[10:20]	Christian Colville:	sure
[10:20]	Taja Beatty:	yes most definately
[10:20]	Taja Beatty:	I prefer text chat
[10:21]	Drew Dwi:	not sure i'm understanding... but you would propose what... not implementing voice? o.O
[10:21]	Christian Colville:	I haven't messed with voice yet - there's some visual feedback when someone is talking?
[10:21]	Drew Dwi:	yeah, there's a white dot, and green things expand from it depending on volume of speaker
[10:21]	Wyn Galbraith:	No, just that there are certain applications where it isn't really usable, such as keeping meeting logs.
[10:21]	Taja Beatty:	right Drew...some people may not want to implement voice
[10:22]	Benjamin Linden:	plus it also makes it easier to run several conversations in parallel
[10:22]	Drew Dwi:	so don't use it? I mean thats the idea of land owners having power to disable it no?
[10:22]	Benjamin Linden:	sorry, we're having some office furniture moved around so I'm a little distracted
[10:22]	Squirrel Wood:	Just make sure they don't move you on accident ^^
[10:22]	Christian Colville:	lol
[10:23]	Wyn Galbraith:	In another world, where voice is already in as well as text, which I will leave nameless, voice was actually confusing or hard to hear, or picked up the users background noise. That was before the kittens at the cords on my headset.
[10:23]	Wyn Galbraith:	*at = ate
[10:23]	Taja Beatty giggles
[10:23]	Christian Colville:	grins
[10:23]	Drew Dwi:	is it possible to disable sound from voice completely if not using? I don't recall such option on beta
[10:23]	Squirrel Wood:	there should be
[10:24]	Drew Dwi:	I would assume there is
[10:24]	Wyn Galbraith has to get over there soon.
[10:24]	Benjamin Linden:	to the beta grid, Wyn?
[10:24]	Wyn Galbraith:	Yes, haven't been there in a week. Last time I went everything was grey.
[10:24]	Qie Niangao:	there's a classic experiment done at IBM, called "The Listening Typewriter"... anyway, bottom-line: surprising how infrequently voice is really the handiest medium
[10:25]	Drew Dwi:	voice is good for like, flying a plane, simple middle mouse button allows you to talk to another person flying without loosing the controls to type
[10:26]	Qie Niangao giggles, having at first misunderstood: "flying a plane" *by* voice would be really hard
[10:26]	Benjamin Linden:	Yes, you can disable voice chat
[10:26]	Wyn Galbraith:	There are a number of good reasons to have it, so it's not really a choice not to introduce voice, it's more of a community acceptance that some will use it some will not, or some will do both.
[10:26]	Benjamin Linden:	in Preferences
[10:26]	Squirrel Wood:	There are uses for voice. and abuses. Both will be taken advantage of. :p
[10:26]	Christian Colville:	The thing I'd most like to see added in the way of UI is an inworld sculptie editor
[10:27]	Wyn Galbraith:	Exactly Squirrel, great minds ... etc
[10:27]	Benjamin Linden:	it will be very interesting to see what kind of adoption voice gets
[10:27]	Benjamin Linden:	like which communities use it and which don't
[10:27]	Benjamin Linden:	I look at it as a big community experiment :-)
[10:27]	Christian Colville:	yeah it'll be interesting
[10:27]	Squirrel Wood:	nobody will be able to hinder a person of broadcasting awfull noises by wiring the stereo/mono mix or "What U Hear" to their mikes
[10:28]	Benjamin Linden:	real quick before we jump to sculpties christian I wanted to follow up on Drew's comment about the speakers button
[10:28]	Wyn Galbraith:	It will be interesting to see what results. Because Beta testing never really gets used, at least as far as SL is concerned anyway, as it will in a real use situation.
[10:28]	Benjamin Linden:	is there something we could do to make that clearer?
[10:28]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, Wyn, that's why we're releasing a first look viewer with voice soon
[10:29]	Benjamin Linden:	hi Revolution, didn't see you sneak in
[10:29]	Stevex Janus:	linux version?
[10:29]	Wyn Galbraith:	Cool, I'll check it out.
[10:29]	Revolution Perenti:	hi there Ben
[10:29]	Christian Colville:	hello Rev
[10:29]	Revolution Perenti:	sorry was not going to change topic so i just listen first
[10:29]	Drew Dwi:	hmm well as said earlier I think better defining it, with either 2 words is best option, like active speakers or speakers list
[10:29]	Qie Niangao:	stevex: right... but given the nightmare of Linux sound, can kinda see why that's taking a while
[10:30]	Drew Dwi:	or volume maybe
[10:30]	Benjamin Linden:	anotehr concern about the label was the length of it, especially when it gets translated to other languages like German
[10:30]	Squirrel Wood:	"Tell me, oh great button, who is speaking at the moment!" ?
[10:30]	Benjamin Linden:	do you happen to remember if the button has a tooltip?
[10:30]	Benjamin Linden:	I dont' have it open at the moment obviously :-)
[10:31]	Drew Dwi:	yeah I don't know
[10:32]	Drew Dwi:	office hours in beta grid next time? :P
[10:32]	Benjamin Linden:	Squirrel, to your point about not being able to limit what you hear, you will be able to individually control the volume and mute of other residents
[10:32]	Wyn Galbraith:	Hey that's a good idea.
[10:33]	Benjamin Linden:	you can try it out today on the beta grid
[10:33]	Wyn Galbraith:	All Hail the Mute button.
[10:33]	Benjamin Linden:	does anyone who's used voice chat have feedback on the in-world speaking indicators
[10:33]	Drew Dwi needs mute button in RL
[10:33]	Benjamin Linden:	are they useful? easy to understand?
[10:33]	Benjamin Linden:	easy to see?
[10:34]	Benjamin Linden:	haha yeah, Drew, I've thought of that many times
[10:34]	Drew Dwi:	xD
[10:34]	Wyn Galbraith has too, just yesterday.
[10:34]	Drew Dwi:	here's a suggestion
[10:34]	Drew Dwi:	on the voice options
[10:34]	Drew Dwi:	when someone enables voice
[10:34]	Drew Dwi:	you should have push-to-talk enabled by default
[10:35]	Drew Dwi:	because otherwise 1/2 the people enable voice and BOOM their broadcasting all the backround noise or music their playing
[10:35]	Squirrel Wood:	Make it big, red and stick it in the center of the screen. Oh! And label it "Do Not Press"
[10:35]	Benjamin Linden:	PTT will be enabled by default
[10:35]	Benjamin Linden:	actually voice will be off by default
[10:35]	Wyn Galbraith:	Maybe that should be a preference choice. Some may not want it to be enabled by default, such as people who are deaf.
[10:35]	Benjamin Linden:	but there will be a "voice setup" wizard to get people going with Voice Chat if they so desire
[10:35]	Drew Dwi:	no no, I mean when you got into preferences and manually enable voice
[10:35]	Drew Dwi:	yeah that'd be good
[10:36]	Wyn Galbraith:	Good.
[10:36]	Benjamin Linden:	we're frantically trying to get all these features rolled out :-)
[10:36]	Benjamin Linden:	once the first look viewer goes out there will be several weeks of feedback and iterations
[10:37]	Benjamin Linden:	so hopefully we'll have a chance to gather your input and include it in the final version of voice
[10:37]	Drew Dwi:	there's alot of little things on jira that feel like they've been ignored for the big feature's.... any good way to get them adressed?
[10:37]	Drew Dwi:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-267
[10:38]	Benjamin Linden:	that's a great point, Drew, I'm glad you brought it up
[10:38]	Drew Dwi:	thats a very incomplete list
[10:38]	Drew Dwi:	but something as simple as enabling estate owners to enter full estates has been asked for the last 3 versions ;\
[10:38]	Benjamin Linden:	we actually have a number of people working on making small fixes like this
[10:38]	Christian Colville:	Also get the sense that a lot of problems are overload related and won't get resolved until better load management systems are in place
[10:39]	Benjamin Linden:	Torley and I meet regularly to go through these lists, he actually just pointed me to this jira list
[10:39]	Benjamin Linden:	so it will be included in our list of issues to review and assign to developers
[10:39]	Benjamin Linden:	we're trying to balance the need to stay innovative and competitive with the needs and concerns of the residents
[10:40]	Drew Dwi:	right but lots of bug fixes but very few 'feature fixes'
[10:40]	Drew Dwi:	i'll keep adding to that list tho
[10:40]	Christian Colville:	is there anyone who has an office hour to talk about architectural issues?
[10:40]	Benjamin Linden:	part of the problem with "feature fixes" is that it's not always to simple to fix one thing in isolation
[10:41]	Benjamin Linden:	many features are interrelated and interdependent, both in the code and in terms of interaction design patterns
[10:41]	Benjamin Linden:	what solves a problem in one place may actually make it worse somewhere else
[10:41]	Wyn Galbraith:	That's common,
[10:41]	Benjamin Linden:	this isn't an excuse, just and explanation why some stuff seems to take longer to get addressed
[10:41]	Wyn Galbraith:	Code can some times be like Jello.
[10:41]	Benjamin Linden:	we want to think about the big picture
[10:42]	Christian Colville:	yep seems some things require fundamental changes to the structure of SL to fix them
[10:42]	Benjamin Linden:	this is what Torley and I meet to discuss
[10:42]	Benjamin Linden:	we triage the discussions based on things that truly are easy and don't impact other areas in a complex way
[10:42]	Benjamin Linden:	sorry, triage the issues
[10:43]	Stevex Janus:	So we will ned a third life
[10:43]	Christian Colville:	lol
[10:43]	Benjamin Linden:	haha, I just saw a machinima about that
[10:44]	Benjamin Linden:	a girl in SL logs into Third Life, on the login screen it says "To excape your Second Life"
[10:44]	Benjamin Linden:	:-)
[10:44]	Christian Colville:	isn't that when you have a PC in SL which is running SL on it?
[10:44]	Wyn Galbraith:	That's Fourth Life.
[10:44]	Christian Colville:	oh yeah 2 x 2 how could I miss that lol
[10:45]	Benjamin Linden:	Christian, you brought up sculpties, have you had a chance to play around with them much?
[10:45]	Benjamin Linden:	I'm personally very excited to see what the builders do with sculpties
[10:45]	Wyn Galbraith just had algebra classes a few months ago. "Everything still seems like a formula."
[10:45]	Christian Colville:	yes I've just managed to create one in Blender
[10:45]	Wyn Galbraith has played with sculpties, "Don't make me get my hat out ;)"
[10:45]	Christian Colville:	I can see a lot of uses fo rthem
[10:45]	Qie Niangao wants SCULPT_TYPE_PLANAR *real* bad
[10:46]	Benjamin Linden:	what does that mean Qie
[10:46]	Christian Colville:	what would that be Qie?
[10:46]	Benjamin Linden:	sorry, I'm not a modeller
[10:46]	Qie Niangao:	the current sculpties are all spheres...
[10:46]	Wyn Galbraith:	There are classes now starting using and creating sculpties I've noticed.
[10:46]	Qie Niangao:	ends of textures close at top and bottom
[10:46]	Benjamin Linden:	oh that's great to hear, Wyn
[10:46]	Christian Colville:	ok
[10:46]	Benjamin Linden:	so Qie are you saying you want an open-ended sculptie?
[10:47]	Qie Niangao:	so there will be cylinders (close just at end)... and planar, don't close at all...
[10:47]	Qie Niangao:	and another I forget now
[10:47]	Squirrel Wood:	Humm. I would like to be able to apply a
[10:47]	Christian Colville:	but then... a plane has no thickness
[10:47]	Qie Niangao has sudden-onset amnesia
[10:47]	Wyn Galbraith takes a lot of classes, "Haven't taken any of the how to make classes yet, sat in on a how to use.
[10:47]	Qie Niangao:	yes that's right
[10:47]	Squirrel Wood:	sculptie texture to each side of a cube
[10:47]	Qie Niangao:	perfect for terrain ;)
[10:47]	Christian Colville:	true..
[10:48]	Wyn Galbraith:	You can make a hollow sculptie, I've done it.
[10:48]	Squirrel Wood:	or an option to add a bumpmap texture to prim faces..
[10:48]	Christian Colville:	I think you could make a pretty good terrain with current sculpties tho
[10:48]	Wyn Galbraith:	But you can't open it all the way through.
[10:48]	Qie Niangao:	well, bounding box is a sphere...
[10:48]	Qie Niangao:	so, well, kinda bumpy terrain
[10:48]	Chaley May:	anyone sculpted some stairs.. i want some
[10:48]	Christian Colville:	yeah but you can deform them as much as you want..
[10:49]	Christian Colville:	its topology
[10:49]	Wyn Galbraith:	I've been trying that. Need a better tool.
[10:49]	Wyn Galbraith:	That was my first idea to use them for.
[10:49]	Benjamin Linden:	aren't scultpies limited to the 10m prim size?
[10:49]	Christian Colville:	yep Chaley I want to do that it would be a big prim saver
[10:49]	Christian Colville:	yeah they are
[10:49]	Wyn Galbraith:	Came out with something that looked like a wedding cake.
[10:49]	Qie Niangao:	they can *look* nice, but the collision space is still a sphere (albeit, yes, deformed)
[10:49]	Qie Niangao:	oh
[10:49]	Qie Niangao:	the megaprims can be sculpted
[10:49]	Benjamin Linden:	seems like that would make terrain editing with sculpties sort of challenging
[10:50]	Christian Colville:	can they Qie? wow..
[10:50]	Wyn Galbraith:	Still at 10m, you could get a nice set of stairs with one prim.
[10:50]	Benjamin Linden:	interesting, Qie
[10:50]	Benjamin Linden:	that's true Wyn
[10:50]	Benjamin Linden:	I can't wait to see what people come up with!
[10:50]	Wyn Galbraith:	Wedding cakes. ;)
[10:50]	Qie Niangao:	but you wouldn't do that for terrain, cuz non-phantom megaprims confuse Havoc and lag the sim
[10:50]	Christian Colville:	its been done though Ben I have bought a sculptie island terrain kit
[10:50]	Benjamin Linden:	I think SL will be much more organic and natural looking
[10:50]	Benjamin Linden:	really, wow, Christian
[10:50]	Chaley May:	stairs would have to be made with 2 prims.. 1 phantom sculptie and a ramp to walk on
[10:50]	Christian Colville:	its not superb but that's down to the builder not the system
[10:51]	Revolution Perenti:	same goes for temp rezzers , just expiermenting with my system i bought mainland offline few times
[10:51]	Wyn Galbraith:	I could walk on the stairs I made. It wasn't phantom.
[10:51]	Wyn Galbraith:	They were just round.
[10:51]	Qie Niangao:	i brought up the upcoming sculpt types, though, just cuz the UI for editing sculpties in-world kinda has to anticipate those, too
[10:52]	Christian Colville:	ok
[10:52]	Chaley May:	i would like to see the stairs i havent seen many sculpties only the fruit ones
[10:52]	Christian Colville:	I think the biggest challenge with sculpties will be creating surface textures to work with them
[10:52]	Wyn Galbraith:	If igured it was the limitation of the tool I was using and I just need to use something different.
[10:52]	Christian Colville:	its much harder to get them to align properly
[10:52]	Revolution Perenti:	also ben seems to be really big problem with physics too, as im building particle and physic based weather that interacts with lindens weather
[10:52]	Benjamin Linden:	I'm not sure what the plans are to provide a sculptie editing experience in the viewer
[10:53]	Revolution Perenti:	i kinda blow up sims and have restores done becuase its either bug or my bad coding lol
[10:53]	Wyn Galbraith:	Columns will become more creative with less prims if one uses the right textures to complete them.
[10:53]	Squirrel Wood:	physics = expect sim crashes
[10:54]	Benjamin Linden:	what tools are you guys using to make sculpties today?
[10:54]	Christian Colville:	Blender
[10:54]	Revolution Perenti:	yea but cause building, houses, shops, trees to vanish off sim
[10:54]	Revolution Perenti:	and no where to be seen
[10:54]	Qie Niangao:	Blender
[10:54]	Squirrel Wood:	Blender cause its free
[10:54]	Chaley May:	i havent tried making sculpties.. not good with written instructions :/
[10:54]	Squirrel Wood:	Most people cannot afford the expensive pro programs
[10:54]	Wyn Galbraith:	Rokuro
[10:55]	Christian Colville:	its quite tricky in Blender
[10:55]	Wyn Galbraith:	Have Blender, but still learning it.
[10:55]	Revolution Perenti:	i wrote my own custom exporter becuase i need better tools
[10:55]	Qie Niangao:	oh, yeah, Rokuro is very cool
[10:55]	Christian Colville:	which is itself quite tricky
[10:55]	Wyn Galbraith:	But it's limited.
[10:55]	Benjamin Linden:	what's Rokuro, I'm not familiar with that
[10:55]	Squirrel Wood:	rokuro is very limited indeed
[10:55]	Qie Niangao:	it just does the solid of revolution... but it does it nicely
[10:55]	Revolution Perenti:	wishes sl editor was more ;like 3dsmax
[10:56]	Wyn Galbraith:	Good for things like columns, vases, glasses, etc. Thanks that are equal on all sides.
[10:56]	Benjamin Linden:	Ben wishes LL had the development staff of AutoDesk :-)
[10:56]	Revolution Perenti:	had to write everything out exported out my texture
[10:56]	Revolution Perenti:	saves me so much time and hassle
[10:56]	Wyn Galbraith use to work at Autodesk, "Did printer and plotter testing. Great company.
[10:57]	Benjamin Linden:	cool Wyn!
[10:57]	Christian Colville:	someone seems to have created some in world tool to let you make a sculptie based on a group of prims
[10:57]	Benjamin Linden:	interesting, Christian
[10:57]	Christian Colville:	I saw it on SLX but dont have it
[10:57]	Christian Colville:	lord knows how well it would work
[10:57]	Revolution Perenti:	also Bne been hacking up alot of the source code lately seems alot of the code base still not using UTF8 not really much of a problem but becomes a problem when using http_requests
[10:57]	Christian Colville:	but someone has been working hard
[10:57]	Revolution Perenti:	alot of code base still using ISO-8859-1 specs
[10:57]	Wyn Galbraith:	Culture changed a lot when the last founder retired. That's where I had my first walk in VR, through some software they developed and abandon, Cyberspace Studio.
[10:58]	Benjamin Linden:	seems like you could create an in-world tool for editing sculpties, maybe like a hammer that you could pound on sculpties with to deform them
[10:58]	Christian Colville:	lol that's a fun idea
[10:58]	Squirrel Wood:	that would actually be fun ^^
[10:58]	Revolution Perenti:	i have one, but part of a holodeck system
[10:58]	Revolution Perenti:	unless you got 9000l to spare lol
[10:58]	Benjamin Linden:	what does it do Revolution?
[10:59]	Squirrel Wood:	holodeck? I have a tool that does similar stuff and won't cost you 9k L$ :p
[10:59]	Benjamin Linden:	you can deform objects in the holodeck?
[10:59]	Revolution Perenti:	well lets you take any part of another object clone it with sculties
[10:59]	Revolution Perenti:	i created real holodeck like start trek, enviroment, weather etc
[10:59]	Christian Colville:	sounds like the thing I was talking about Rev
[10:59]	Grive Tamura:	Does a someone have police station where I can work?
[10:59]	Christian Colville:	does it work well?
[10:59]	Revolution Perenti:	well its in beta now
[11:00]	Chaley May:	i would like to see that
[11:00]	Revolution Perenti:	hoping to meet up with Zero soon , then i start up with public beta testing
[11:00]	Wyn Galbraith:	Zero should be coming back soon.
[11:00]	Revolution Perenti:	just want him to take a look at my weather system, also Ben didnt sl use to have real weather
[11:00]	Revolution Perenti:	like when i first started sl
[11:01]	Benjamin Linden:	I'm not sure about the weather, Rev, others here may know
[11:01]	Grive Tamura:	Does someone does want with me?
[11:01]	Grive Tamura:	Does someone does want with me?
[11:01]	Grive Tamura:	Does someone does want with me?
[11:01]	Grive Tamura:	Does someone does want with me?
[11:01]	Grive Tamura:	Does someone does want with me?
[11:01]	Revolution Perenti:	why i like to see ZERO his one of the best particle lindens
[11:01]	Grive Tamura:	Does someone does want with me?
[11:01]	Grive Tamura:	Does someone does want with me?
[11:01]	Grive Tamura shouts: Does someone does want with me?
[11:01]	Grive Tamura:	Does someone does want with me?
[11:01]	Torley Linden:	Oh dear what's going on!
[11:01]	Benjamin Linden:	what's the problem Grive?
[11:01]	Revolution Perenti:	hi Torley
[11:02]	Chaley May:	does what do we?
[11:02]	Torley Linden:	hey everyone :)
[11:02]	Christian Colville:	Hi Torley
[11:02]	Benjamin Linden:	hi Torley!
[11:02]	Wyn Galbraith:	The usual Torley.
[11:02]	Revolution Perenti:	wow you look great torley
[11:02]	Torley Linden:	hey Benjamin, Christian, Wyn, Revolution, all =)
[11:02]	Torley Linden:	thanks!
[11:02]	Qie Niangao sees Torley and realizes it's time for Robin's office hour
[11:02]	Torley Linden:	i am an "Acolyte of Watermelon"
[11:02]	Wyn Galbraith:	Nice addition to the av.
[11:02]	Torley Linden:	haha that's sort of a Pavlovian queue now, eh Qie?
[11:02]	Revolution Perenti:	hehe never seen you like that before
[11:02]	Torley Linden:	thanks... i wore this hat by Siyu Suen
[11:02]	Qie Niangao salivates whenever he sees watermelon
[11:02]	Torley Linden:	^_^
[11:02]	Wyn Galbraith has one in the frig.
[11:02]	Squirrel Wood:	^^
[11:03]	Squirrel Wood gave you Fortune Cookie.
[11:03]	Torley Linden:	thanks for the fortune cookie SQuirrel
[11:03]	Squirrel Wood:	^^
[11:03]	Squirrel Wood:	Enjoy it ^^
[11:03]	Drew Dwi:	its torley :o
[11:03]	Benjamin Linden:	alright guys, thanks for coming today. good discussion!
[11:03]	Torley Linden:	:D
[11:03]	Torley Linden:	take care everyone
[11:03]	Chaley May:	bye
[11:04]	Wyn Galbraith:	Time to hit Robin ;)
[11:04]	Christian Colville:	cheers Ben Torley everyone, bye!
[11:04]	Torley Linden:	bye for now!
[11:04]	Christian Colville:	hope not literally Wyn
[11:04]	Qie Niangao:	thanks Benjamin
[11:04]	Squirrel Wood:	/ao on
[11:04]	Revolution Perenti:	thanks Ben, also ben can i pop you a notecard later today, some issues i rather not talk about in jira and does usally cause my pc to crash kinda anoying
[11:04]	Stevex Janus:	bye
[11:04]	Benjamin Linden:	sure Rev
[11:04]	Benjamin Linden:	take care everyone!
[11:10]	Entering god mode, level 200
[11:10]	Torley Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1076