User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2009 03 05

Transcript of Andrew Linden's office hours:

[17:03]	Morgaine Dinova:	Good call
[17:03]	Sindy Tsure:	hi hi, andrew
[17:03]	Andrew Linden:	Hello
[17:03]	Morgaine Dinova:	Hi Andrew
[17:04]	Gregory Maurer:	Hi Andrew, Simon
[17:04]	Morgaine Dinova:	Hi Simon
[17:04]	Sindy Tsure:	simon's not here.. i say we take his boat for a joy ride
[17:04]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm... scripts are running pretty slow in this region today.
[17:04]	Sindy Tsure:	oh.. hiya simon :)
[17:04]	Sindy Tsure:	my mainland home has been a lot laggier than normal, last couple weeks
[17:04]	Simon Linden:	Hi ... I haven't tried sailing that yet
[17:04]	Sindy Tsure:	we abuse it so laggy is expected.. it's been pretty bad, though
[17:04]	Simon Linden:	What's with the lag here? It's really slow
[17:04]	Wolfhaven Teleportation HUD v3.0 is Ready
[17:05]	Andrew Linden:	Someone shared this link in LL today: http://thru-you.com/ -- I'm currently listening to that music stream
[17:05]	Sindy Tsure:	hikitto
[17:06]	Andrew Linden:	Simon, got any insight as to what is affecting this region's scripts?
[17:06]	Kitto Flora:	Hello
[17:06]	Morgaine Dinova:	I only listen to Creative Commons music now, like jamendo.com --- it's absolutely full of jems.
[17:06]	Sindy Tsure:	phantom scripts!
[17:07]	Gregory Maurer:	2600 isn't that bad
[17:07]	Sindy Tsure:	3.8 for physics time?
[17:07]	Andrew Linden:	Actually, I paid some $ to jamendo earlier this week for downloading some subatomicglue albums.
[17:07]	Morgaine Dinova:	16,682 albums on Jamendo.com now, all Creative Commons
[17:07]	Andrew Linden:	er... donated $
[17:07]	Gregory Maurer:	what kind of Creative Commons?
[17:07]	Morgaine Dinova:	Coo, nice Andrew!!!!!
[17:08]	Morgaine Dinova:	Andrew++
[17:08]	Morgaine Dinova:	Gregory: all kinds of genres, much more diverse than commercial
[17:08]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm... I don't see many clues in the Ctrl+Shift+1 stats
[17:08]	Andrew Linden:	lemme quickly look at the server...
[17:09]	Simon Linden:	Performance is back to normal - 45fps
[17:09]	Gregory Maurer:	menu
[17:09]	Morgaine Dinova:	I love the Stats Bar, not seen such a well done engineering panel in any other system.
[17:09]	Rex Cronon:	hi everybody
[17:09]	Gregory Maurer:	syson
[17:09]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm... maybe it was some autosaves going on.
[17:09]	Morgaine Dinova:	Hiya Rex!
[17:09]	Arawn Spitteler only sees occupied chairs
[17:09]	Simon Linden:	FPS dropped as Arawn rezzed in, but that's normal (but ugly)
[17:10]	Charlette Proto:	why does the Agent Updates / sec still show the total number af avies and child agents instead of the appropriate value???
[17:10]	Sindy Tsure:	65ms/frame for physics?
[17:10]	Andrew Linden:	Aura has a fix for preventing simulators from trying to save state at the same time... that is probably in server-1.26 -- can't remember.
[17:10]	Sindy Tsure:	hi rex
[17:10]	Rex Cronon:	hi
[17:10]	Sindy Tsure:	& arawn
[17:10]	Morgaine Dinova:	Hi Arawn
[17:10]	Andrew Linden:	What is the appropriate value Charlette?
[17:11]	Arawn Spitteler has to keep his hand in, by not mentioning sheep or SVC-22
[17:11]	Sindy Tsure:	er.. oops
[17:11]	Charlette Proto:	that is Agent Updates is a float but no maths are performed
[17:11]	Andrew Linden:	The simulator is handling AgentUpdate messages for both types? It seems to me it would include all.
[17:11]	Andrew Linden:	Oh hrm...
[17:12]	Morgaine Dinova:	Oh, that was a hand on the table. From eye level, it looked like you'd spewed up something disgusting on the table :-)
[17:12]	Charlette Proto:	I thought Agent Updates was a figure representing refresh rate but it is a total now
[17:12]	Sindy Tsure:	it always adds up to main + child agents?
[17:12]	Andrew Linden:	No, I think AgentUpdates is a measure of particular message rate (AgentUpdate)
[17:13]	Gregory Maurer:	I disabled my agent update packets, no change
[17:13]	Arawn Spitteler'd like to see hovertips on menu items, but that's another hour
[17:13]	Andrew Linden:	Uh... you can't disable AgentUpdate packets that I know of.
[17:13]	Andrew Linden:	Ok announcements....
[17:13]	Sindy Tsure:	KB says "The rate at which agents on this simulator are being updated. Normally 20 updates a second, this will decrease if the simulator has a large number of agents on it."
[17:14]	Gregory Maurer:	I disabled sending the AgentUpdate packets
[17:14]	Andrew Linden:	(1) I asked about the pending lost inventory fixes... They are in progress (not done yet). They are hoping to get them done in time for server-1.27
[17:14]	Charlette Proto:	ah OK so the figure is right
[17:14]	Andrew Linden:	That's about all I know about (1).
[17:14]	Andrew Linden:	(2) No one is working on the "client reconnect" feature set right now.
[17:15]	Charlette Proto:	get it I thought it was a rate at which a given agent position is refreshed at
[17:15]	Andrew Linden:	Philip Linden mentioned that he was wondering what he would work on next.
[17:15]	Arawn Spitteler thinks that's a good asignmnet: No one gets the job done on time
[17:15]	Sindy Tsure:	oh! i did a forum thread for what philip should work on next!
[17:16]	Andrew Linden:	He was thinking about trying to work with the OpenSource crowd to help coordinate fixes from that area. I suggested a few projects he could try to coordinate, incuding "client reconnect".
[17:16]	Andrew Linden:	We'll see what happens.
[17:16]	Sindy Tsure points to http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=304027 . some digressions, some decent ideas
[17:16]	Andrew Linden:	(3) The HTTP texture pipeline project is in development.
[17:16]	Kitto Flora:	Maybe I sshall see Philip again
[17:16]	Andrew Linden:	don't know the timeline, but complete in 2009 certainly.
[17:16]	Arawn Spitteler:	Fixing up the messy areas should be good experience for him; It's the wise captain who knows his bilge
[17:17]	Sindy Tsure:	he wrote a bunch of the original sl code, arawn.. he knows :)
[17:17]	Sindy Tsure:	trees, i think
[17:17]	Arawn Spitteler:	A bit of catching up, should help him codify what is good technique
[17:17]	Andrew Linden:	Wow, the in-SL web browser works on Linux!
[17:17]	Andrew Linden:	I hadn't used it there yet.
[17:18]	Sindy Tsure:	heh
[17:18]	Gregory Maurer:	Why wouldn't it?
[17:18]	Andrew Linden:	Dunno why... I guess I have low expectations for the linux client (I've only just stated to use it with any regularity).
[17:18]	Andrew Linden:	But voice still doesn't work on it for me.
[17:19]	Andrew Linden:	I think there is an experimental version with improved voice somewhere...
[17:19]	Andrew Linden:	I'd try it if I could just get my USB headset to work on my Ubuntu MacBook Pro
[17:19]	Charlette Proto:	ah sound and Linux is such a nice thing
[17:20]	Arawn Spitteler:	Set up Speakers, in the office next door
[17:20]	Andrew Linden:	(4) I updated the various fix-pending maint-server-6 bugs in the public jira with comments that they will be in server-1.26
[17:20]	Andrew Linden:	I guess that is the end of announcements.
[17:20]	Andrew Linden:	The table is open.
[17:21]	Sindy Tsure has heard much grumbling about sim performance lately..
[17:21]	Sindy Tsure:	my home has been bad enough that i did a support ticket
[17:21]	Charlette Proto:	what could be making the voice level indicators unreliable (miss sometimes)
[17:21]	Andrew Linden:	We have some sim performance improvements in sever-1.26.
[17:22]	Sindy Tsure:	some sims seem to have gotten a lot worse around the time etch was rolling out.. no idea if it's related to that or what the story is
[17:22]	Andrew Linden:	I don't know much about how voice works. By "indicators" are you talking about the green (red) wave icons above the head?
[17:23]	Simon Linden:	Sindy - some of that might be related to the restart, if the region ended up on a server with other regions that were more load than before
[17:23]	Andrew Linden:	I haven't heard of any performance problems from the etch deploy, however there are two known performance problems in server-1.25.5
[17:23]	Rex Cronon:	it would be cool if somebody that wasn't using voice could see who is using
[17:23]	Charlette Proto:	yes they don't always display Andrew
[17:23]	Andrew Linden:	(1) is a memcached server which sometimes loads the whole host
[17:23]	Sindy Tsure:	this sim here being a steady +3.5ms/frame for physics is ok? not a lot happening here...
[17:23]	Charlette Proto:	only been happening for 6 weeks or so
[17:23]	Andrew Linden:	(2) is an occasional memory leak that they are still working on fixing
[17:23]	Simon Linden:	FWIW there's another rolling restart next week, so it would be interesting to see if it changed then
[17:24]	Charlette Proto:	REX??? thaks 4 your comment, I'm not blonde
[17:24]	Andrew Linden:	Really Simon? What is that rolling restart about? I hadn't heard about it.
[17:24]	Rex Cronon:	?
[17:24]	Simon Linden:	1.25.6
[17:24]	Andrew Linden:	Ok, so they are planning a patch to server-1.25
[17:25]	Morgaine Dinova:	Andrew: keep half an eye open on the Imprudence viewer, lot of good thinks happening there. I'm on RC2 now on Linux, it stays up for ever.
[17:25]	Simon Linden:	https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/technology/release
[17:25]	Andrew Linden:	Ok thanks for that link Simon.
[17:26]	Sindy Tsure:	"Fix a performance-lagging problem that occurs when the apache2 process on a sim is overloaded"
[17:26]	Sindy Tsure:	that's just if scripts are doing lots of web stuff?
[17:26]	Andrew Linden:	Ah yes, that is the item (1) I was talking about. I guess it wasn't memcached after all but apache2
[17:26]	Morgaine Dinova:	Is LL going to move towards automigration so that we're not continually hit with restarts? Interrupting the world really is a bad idea.
[17:27]	Sindy Tsure:	you'd rather go back to restart-wednesday?
[17:27]	Sindy Tsure:	:P
[17:27]	Morgaine Dinova:	No restarts at all! Virtualized sim hosts, then just migrate processes.
[17:28]	Andrew Linden:	Good question Morgaine. My answer would be: "that is a long way off if ever".
[17:28]	Morgaine Dinova:	kk
[17:28]	Andrew Linden:	Simon might have some thoughts on that. I think he's talked about that idea internally in the past
[17:29]	Morgaine Dinova:	That's cool. :-)
[17:29]	Morgaine Dinova:	Makes management vastly easier for you too.
[17:29]	Andrew Linden:	I think we've talked about it in office hours in the past too
[17:29]	Kitto Flora gets back from phone call
[17:29]	Ardy Lay:	When you are talking about actually changing the application code running on the virtual machine, the application still has to be restarted.
[17:30]	Arawn Spitteler:	Could Virtual Sim practice Server Surfing?
[17:30]	Andrew Linden:	I believe that there.com has the capability to migrate regions to different processes/servers
[17:30]	Kitto Flora:	Restarts are not that bad. As long as it works
[17:30]	Simon Linden:	I haven't thought much about migrating processes, but more about being more intelligent on how we place regions on specific servers
[17:30]	Andrew Linden:	they solved that problem early on, but it cost them much time and $$$$ when they had to shell out for lots of higher-end hardware and network connections between them
[17:30]	Morgaine Dinova:	Ardy: sure, but you migrate to the new version, so the user doesn't see a restart. If necessary, you then restart the old sim when nobody on it, and migrate back.
[17:31]	Charlette Proto:	but There codebase is not like the Soyuz rocket code LL uses
[17:31]	Andrew Linden:	whereas LL went for a very low-cost hardware solution, and punted that feature into the future (it has not yet landed)
[17:31]	Morgaine Dinova:	Hehe
[17:31]	Gregory Maurer:	I thought simulators had pretty good hardware
[17:31]	Morgaine Dinova looks up at the sky
[17:31]	Ardy Lay:	I would imagine that would require synchronizing sim states in two simulators running different code.
[17:31]	Kitto Flora:	Soyuz rocket code? The processors run on 12AU7s?
[17:32]	Andrew Linden:	No, the simulator hosts are on relatively low-cost servers
[17:32]	Simon Linden:	6146B's for power amps
[17:32]	Andrew Linden:	1U pizzaboxen without internal backup power, single-disk
[17:32]	Kitto Flora:	Mmmmm :) Toasty!
[17:32]	Andrew Linden:	if a simulator host machine fails we just restart the region on a new server with some lost content (we have hourly backups)
[17:33]	Morgaine Dinova:	You can get amazing value in 1U boxes these days. I have a 1U 8-core from HP that was very inexpensive.
[17:33]	Andrew Linden:	I think I mentioned before: we buy the servers by the rack (about 34 servers)
[17:33]	Morgaine Dinova:	HP DL140 G3
[17:33]	Andrew Linden:	everything is pre-wired (power and network)
[17:34]	Andrew Linden:	these racks get wheeled into empty space in the colocation facility and bolted to the floor
[17:34]	Morgaine Dinova:	I only have 3 racks ... but that's not bad for a personal house :P
[17:34]	Andrew Linden:	power is then routed to a conduit box
[17:34]	Andrew Linden:	and an uplink goes to the network switch at the top of the rack
[17:34]	Morgaine Dinova:	And another 19" rack (but a pretty one) for the hifi in lounge
[17:35]	Morgaine Dinova:	Oh, and 3 racks in the studio for the MIDI gear, forgot about that
[17:35]	Morgaine Dinova:	Lotta racks here, I like 19" :-)
[17:35]	Andrew Linden:	that's alot of equipment Morgaine
[17:35]	Morgaine Dinova:	yeah, bit of a geek, hehe
[17:35]	Andrew Linden:	we once bought two "low noise" racks on wheels for servers in the office
[17:36]	Andrew Linden:	these were designed for audio equipment
[17:36]	Andrew Linden:	but we couldn't put too many real servers in them... not enough ventilation
[17:36]	Simon Linden:	We have one of those in the back room of our office, housing some network gear
[17:36]	Andrew Linden:	around the fifth server it would overheat
[17:36]	Morgaine Dinova:	I was thinking of buying one of those insulated cabs especially for the DL140, it's noisy as hell. Or might just put it in a colo
[17:36]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah Simon, your office inherited one of them.
[17:37]	Arawn Spitteler:	Ventilation? You don't water cool?
[17:37]	Morgaine Dinova:	Heat is a big problem, aye
[17:38]	Sindy Tsure:	any llnet news?
[17:39]	Rex Cronon:	u could buy some liquid nitro. no more heatingproblems:)
[17:39]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm... LLNet is a switchover to some new network connections between our colocation facilities
[17:39]	Sindy Tsure still thinks the physics time on this sim is too high, btw..
[17:39]	Andrew Linden:	I haven't been paying attention. Have you Simon?
[17:39]	Sindy Tsure:	it's the death-to-vpn project, yes?
[17:39]	Andrew Linden:	yes
[17:40]	Morgaine Dinova:	There's really no future along the current path in CPU and GPU power consumption. On present course, we'll need personal nuclear power stations in 20 years time.
[17:40]	Sindy Tsure:	i think we broke simon
[17:40]	Kitto Flora:	There was some words in the blog about llnet
[17:40]	Simon Linden:	Did I break?
[17:40]	Sindy Tsure:	lol
[17:40]	Sindy Tsure:	no.. just quiet there for a minute.. :)
[17:40]	Arawn Spitteler:	Windmill powered Water reservoires, that can cool as they produce juice
[17:40]	Morgaine Dinova:	That's the "Latency >> all" project, right?
[17:40]	Gregory Maurer:	You could harness antimatter for power and liquid nitrogen for cooling.
[17:41]	Kitto Flora:	Breaker-breaker 1 9
[17:41]	Simon Linden:	I was looking at the physics time ... Gail Linden has all the colliders that show up
[17:41]	Morgaine Dinova:	Heh
[17:42]	Sindy Tsure:	cogsworth has a physical chunk of wood 1/2 burried in the ground
[17:42]	Simon Linden:	I forget about the last llnet info I got ... I think it was continuing, but they were being much slower and more careful about the switchover
[17:42]	Simon Linden:	Last time some routing or IP info caused some ugly drop-outs
[17:43]	Sindy Tsure:	and babriel & colton have a few things.. don't see any gail beacons
[17:43]	Sindy Tsure:	though simon is probably a better one to listen to
[17:43]	Sindy Tsure:	*gabriel
[17:43]	Simon Linden:	For this sim, I'm seeing higher script times ... 15ms or so
[17:44]	Andrew Linden:	I asked around... LLNet is in progress. It will probably take weeks to actually complete.
[17:44]	Morgaine Dinova:	How much extra latency does VPN traversal add typically to packets?
[17:44]	Kitto Flora:	Looks like cogsworth L dropped a 2x4 in an underwater trench over there
[17:44]	Andrew Linden:	I don't think VPN adds a lot of latency, but it does have some bad failure modes.
[17:45]	Andrew Linden:	And it turns out that the hardware out there for high-bandwidth VPN doesn't really hold up
[17:45]	Morgaine Dinova:	Hmmm
[17:45]	Kitto Flora:	248,123, 10 ?
[17:45]	Andrew Linden:	You can buy some "silver plated" (somewhat expensive but not outrageously so) equipment for VPN hardware acceleration and it will work fine...
[17:46]	Andrew Linden:	as long as you don't load them
[17:46]	Charlette Proto:	Chrysalis dedicated PCI cards are they still on the market?
[17:46]	Sindy Tsure:	that's always the trick tho, isn't it? getting stuff that won't choke under serious load
[17:47]	Morgaine Dinova:	Dedicated PCI cards are very bad for server farms
[17:47]	Kitto Flora:	Well is V - virtual. not REALLY a private network.
[17:48]	Sindy Tsure:	so.. we going to be seeing Andrew & Simon adding to the shiny new LL blog??
[17:48]	Gregory Maurer:	Since when do rolling restarts get bears? "http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Server/1.25"
[17:48]	Andrew Linden:	Our #ops channel says... 1929 hosts have been moved to LLNet, 5167 left to go.
[17:48]	Morgaine Dinova:	Heh, blogging is a waste of time, better to actually do stuff :-)
[17:48]	Arawn Spitteler wonders that they had hosts in 1929
[17:48]	Kitto Flora:	Can we tell whos on llnet?
[17:49]	Simon Linden:	I'm not sure I should add to the blog :)
[17:49]	Sindy Tsure was just wondering that.. i suspect not, kitto
[17:49]	Andrew Linden:	Kitto, it shouldn't be apparent from your end. All the traffic is internal.
[17:49]	Morgaine Dinova:	Yay! Give us llTraceRoute() .... :-))))))
[17:49]	Andrew Linden:	Each simulator host has two ethernet interfaces, one for public traffice and one for internal
[17:50]	Sindy Tsure:	simon: "hi, i'm simon and i do X, Y and Z for LL. Also like doing A, B and C just for fun."
[17:50]	Andrew Linden:	we firewall the internal network to eliminate most connections there
[17:50]	Sindy Tsure:	any way to tell by looking at host number or are those to random nowdays?
[17:50]	Simon Linden:	Maybe we should have an intro category or something
[17:50]	Sindy Tsure:	*too
[17:51]	Sindy Tsure:	there's always lots of resident interest in how the guts of SL works..
[17:51]	Morgaine Dinova:	Yeah
[17:52]	Sindy Tsure:	talk about anything technical and you'll be loved & misquoted for years to come
[17:52]	Arawn Spitteler wonders how many sims would be required, to model a simulator
[17:52]	Simon Linden:	That's what I'm afraid of ... my vague comments about what I'd like to work on vs. what actually happens
[17:52]	Kitto Flora:	2 prims for a pizzabox
[17:52]	Sindy Tsure:	would that simulator be modeling a simulator, too?
[17:52]	Andrew Linden:	Perhaps a rough outline of our system could be put up on a blog post. I'll see if FJ Linden wants to do that.
[17:52]	Kitto Flora:	6 if you want screw heads
[17:53]	Morgaine Dinova:	Simon: you'll be misquoted anyway, just use "<shrug>" a lot ;-)
[17:53]	Sindy Tsure:	and "ask andrew"
[17:53]	Morgaine Dinova:	Haha
[17:53]	Sindy Tsure ducks!
[17:53]	Andrew Linden:	I know we've talked about our internal configuration in the past... some general structure.
[17:54]	Sindy Tsure:	yepyep.. and people still quote you about megaprims stuff from the forums
[17:54]	Ardy Lay:	I have a feeling I will be digging through JIRA gathering the issues with client rendering pausing.
[17:55]	Sindy Tsure:	using the new RC, ardy? except for opening popups/windows, it's gotten WAY better for me
[17:55]	Kitto Flora:	Doing a difinitiv Megaprim post might go a ways to quashing all the misquotes out there
[17:55]	Sindy Tsure shouts: HI COLTON!
[17:55]	Sindy Tsure:	sorry..
[17:55]	Ardy Lay:	The latest RC, yes
[17:55]	Morgaine Dinova:	Andrew/Simon: hope you guys have at least one eye on mechanisms for sim scalability, or you'll be toast if competition appears. No sign yet, but can't leave it till then, have to plan now.
[17:55]	Gregory Maurer:	I remember something about havok and "physics islands"
[17:55]	Andrew Linden:	Ack. I'm not interested in posting anew about megaprims... but I am interested in trying to get some real work done there.
[17:56]	Andrew Linden:	I probably need to take a day off... so I can work on it.
[17:56]	Kitto Flora:	:)
[17:56]	Morgaine Dinova:	Remember the rule now, "CPUs will not be getting (much) faster, just more cores" .... so you have to be able to use more cores per sim.
[17:56]	Kitto Flora:	It would be nice to see some real (useful) work get done.
[17:57]	Sindy Tsure:	http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=208385&page=3
[17:57]	Arawn Spitteler:	Take a sick day, to nurse SL back to health
[17:57]	Simon Linden:	I have some projects in the works that start using more threads, and will hopefully make the sim fps smootherr
[17:57]	Morgaine Dinova:	Neat!
[17:57]	Gregory Maurer:	Each additional core adds less value to processing power, but number of features can increase linearly.
[17:57]	Andrew Linden:	I should take a day off, then go to one of the other offices and sit in a corner (I can't get any work done at home).
[17:57]	Gregory Maurer:	According to Intel
[17:58]	Sindy Tsure:	when sims start to lag, are they usually getting cpu bound or is it just as likely (or more) to be memory or some kind of i/o ?
[17:58]	Andrew Linden:	There are many ways to lag a simulator host
[17:58]	Morgaine Dinova:	Simon: threads are extremely evil (I did my research in concurrency/parallism), so try to not use threads, but disjoint processes.
[17:58]	Gregory Maurer:	I recently noticed there was a function you could use in a script print( string s ) (http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Print), what's that about?
[17:58]	Sindy Tsure:	...just wondering how much faster cpus would help
[17:59]	Andrew Linden:	yeah, I'm not very interested in multithreading the simulator. I'd rather pull more stuff out of it and just clean up the parts that remain.
[17:59]	Simon Linden:	It would all help ... the slowdowns come from a variety of sources
[17:59]	Morgaine Dinova:	Sindy: CPUs won't be getting much faster (just more cores), so not much point thinking about it.
[18:00]	Sindy Tsure:	er..
[18:00]	Morgaine Dinova:	Andrew: yet
[18:00]	Kitto Flora:	print() is a built-in function?
[18:00]	Morgaine Dinova:	yep*
[18:00]	Simon Linden:	I want to keep it pretty simple ... for example, when the sim reads a texture file off disk, it's doing that in the main thread. That should just be put in another one
[18:00]	Gregory Maurer:	yeah, it compiles without being defined
[18:00]	Object: Hello, Avatar!
[18:00]	Simon Linden:	... but our VFS code (the same one that's in the viewer) is not really thread safe
[18:01]	Gregory Maurer:	Intel has alot of info on one of their islands regarding cores
[18:01]	Kitto Flora:	It compiles
[18:01]	Kitto Flora:	No ding
[18:01]	Andrew Linden:	Aren't you working on the VFS on the side, Simon?
[18:01]	Sindy Tsure wonders if something is chiming at the colo..
[18:01]	Morgaine Dinova:	Aye, thread safety and issues of reentrancy and deadlock and livelock and other nightmares ... stay well clear of that.
[18:01]	Ardy Lay:	Somewhere in a colo a server is dinging.
[18:01]	Sindy Tsure:	lol
[18:01]	Kitto Flora gets evil thoughts about this
[18:02]	Simon Linden:	Yes, I've thrown the VFS to an intern programmer
[18:02]	Sindy Tsure:	enough scripts on enough sims with some tricky timing and we'll have music in the colo
[18:02]	Ardy Lay:	Ow was that a 7S fising server bouy?
[18:02]	Kitto Flora:	One could drive the colo attendants nuts?
[18:02]	Simon Linden:	He's actually making good progress on it
[18:02]	Andrew Linden:	That reminds me... improved client-side caching was another project I suggested Philip Linden look into working on
[18:02]	Sindy Tsure:	squids!
[18:03]	Andrew Linden:	He mentioned off the top of his head that maybe we should have a VFS file for each region
[18:03]	Andrew Linden:	One of the reasons for the VFS was to NOT use lots of file inodes
[18:03]	Kitto Flora:	Say - Philip is good at riding a motybike fast - get him to work on fixing region boundary crossing.
[18:04]	Andrew Linden:	not all filesystems worked well with lots of files when we started
[18:04]	Sindy Tsure:	wouldn't that add a lot of bloat for common textures?
[18:04]	Sindy Tsure:	hm.. scratch that.. probably not that many common ones
[18:04]	Andrew Linden:	I could beat Philip in a motorcycle race ;-)
[18:04]	Sindy Tsure has a Triumph RS, which I sadly have to part with soon
[18:05]	Gregory Maurer:	The only true test of skill is the hoverboard
[18:05]	Simon Linden:	How long do you think it will take someone to send a link to today's transcript to Philip? :)
[18:05]	Sindy Tsure:	lol
[18:05]	Andrew Linden:	Well, I've always thought that there are plenty of SL residents who would gladly dedicate 100GB of disk space to SL cache
[18:05]	Kitto Flora:	But how long will it take Philip to read it?
[18:05]	Andrew Linden:	with that kind of space you don't really need to worry too much about a few duplicates
[18:05]	Sindy Tsure:	true
[18:05]	Andrew Linden:	as long as your system is fast and reduces download bandwidth
[18:06]	Gregory Maurer:	Could you store textures and sounds in one database, and then prims/objects per sim
[18:06]	Rex Cronon:	i would go for 10 even 15, but not 100
[18:06]	Andrew Linden rides a Honda Nighthawk these days.
[18:06]	Simon Linden:	It does seem like there is a lot of room for improvement ... I seem to download the textures for this region almost every time I log in
[18:06]	Kitto Flora:	Cache will only go to 1Gig
[18:07]	Morgaine Dinova:	Andrew, not just 100G, but dedicate a whole drive these days. Anyone who lives in SL permanently wouldn't begrudge dedicating a whole drive to cache.
[18:07]	Andrew Linden:	At the moment cache is limited to 1G max, yes
[18:07]	Gregory Maurer:	There's probably some way to change that in the client
[18:07]	Sindy Tsure:	you probably don't want to tho, greg
[18:07]	Rex Cronon:	i don't think that there is anybody YET that lives in sl permanently:)
[18:07]	Charlette Proto:	I use a RAM Drive (Super Speed with HD image saving) for cache
[18:08]	Andrew Linden:	I think there have been lots of discussions about how to improve the SL cache, internally and in the sldev email list
[18:08]	Andrew Linden:	Ok, well I'm going to have to head out. Thanks for coming everyone.
[18:08]	Morgaine Dinova:	I read that it was more fundamental problem, and if you change it in client then it resets it back for good reason.
[18:08]	Sindy Tsure too
[18:08]	Sindy Tsure:	ty Simon & Andrew!
[18:08]	Sindy Tsure:	cya, all
[18:08]	Gregory Maurer:	Bye Everyone
[18:08]	Morgaine Dinova:	Thanks A+S :-)
[18:08]	Rex Cronon:	bye andrew
[18:08]	Simon Linden:	Thanks everyone for coming
[18:09]	Sindy Tsure:	sheep! attack arawn!
[18:09]	Kitto Flora:	Baahhhhh
[18:09]	Arawn Spitteler:	Sheep?
[18:09]	Ardy Lay:	Anvil!
[18:09]	Sindy Tsure:	stoopid critter..
[18:09]	Ardy Lay:	No?
[18:09]	Charlette Proto:	hehe