User:Benjamin Linden/Office Hours/2007 Aug 14

Transcript of Benjamin Linden's office hours:

[10:06]	Torley Linden:	Heya Ben!!!
[10:06]	Daedalus Young:	hi Benjamin
[10:06]	Benjamin Linden:	hi guys!
[10:06]	Torley Linden:	Awwwe.
[10:06]	Torley Linden:	Making me blush!
[10:06]	Torley Linden:	I just like to have a good time, hehe.
[10:06]	Benjamin Linden:	sorry I'm running a little late this morning
[10:06]	Torley Linden:	And share this.
[10:06]	Torley Linden:	Good to see ya Ben!
[10:06]	Torley Linden:	Hahahahaha...
[10:06]	Torley Linden:	Gotta be passionate, music is self-expression!
[10:06]	Benjamin Linden:	we had a little mix up with the agenda
[10:06]	Benjamin Linden:	but thanks to Rob we have one now!
[10:06]	Benjamin Linden:	:-)
[10:06]	Inara Marquette:	its like breathing :)
[10:06]	Torley Linden:	:D
[10:06]	Torley Linden:	Thanks Rob!
[10:07]	There is no suitable surface to sit on, try another spot.
[10:07]	Torley Linden:	Hahaha. Second Life's so flexible that way.
[10:07]	Torley Linden:	I remember that Revolution.
[10:07]	Benjamin Linden:	squirrel I used to sit at the end of the couch with you
[10:07]	Benjamin Linden:	but it's not working
[10:07]	Inara Marquette:	hahah those days are long gone
[10:07]	Benjamin Linden:	guess I'll just stand :-)
[10:08]	Dzonatas Sol:	damn straight! (on fashion)
[10:08]	Torley Linden:	Hmmm...
[10:08]	Torley Linden:	Ben, chair!
[10:08]	Paul Churchill:	take my seat
[10:08]	Benjamin Linden:	no no I'm fine, really :-)
[10:08]	Inara Marquette:	looks like ben would shredd up the chair anyway :)
[10:08]	Torley Linden:	Haha the Geico gecko...
[10:08]	Torley Linden:	Iridium hopping in!
[10:08]	Torley Linden:	HAHAA.
[10:08]	Benjamin Linden:	hey Iridium
[10:08]	Benjamin Linden:	glad you could join us
[10:08]	Daedalus Young:	hi Iridium
[10:08]	Iridium Linden:	Herro!
[10:08]	McCabe Maxsted:	ahoy!
[10:08]	Benjamin Linden:	ok folks let's get started
[10:09]	Inara Marquette:	allo :)
[10:09]	Benjamin Linden:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/UI_Agenda
[10:09]	Dzonatas Sol:	Sounds did all female avi become male due to voice?
[10:09]	Torley Linden:	*checks agenda*
[10:09]	Dzonatas Sol:	*So
[10:09]	Iridium Linden:	lmao
[10:09]	Iridium Linden:	Wow, we have a lot ot do today.
[10:09]	Iridium Linden:	:)
[10:09]	Nock Forager:	so many.
[10:09]	Benjamin Linden:	well we won't get through everything
[10:10]	Benjamin Linden:	but let's do what we can
[10:10]	Benjamin Linden:	FYI, for those who are voice enabled, I'm not currently listening to voice
[10:10]	Benjamin Linden:	ok first up
[10:10]	Benjamin Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1231
[10:10]	Torley Linden:	*checks*
[10:10]	Benjamin Linden:	this one looks good to me
[10:10]	Torley Linden:	I wish we could click on hyperlinks from the transparent chat console, I should JIRAfy that later.
[10:11]	Paul Churchill:	I think it needs comprehensive testing
[10:11]	Benjamin Linden:	although admittedly I'm not that familiar with the keyboard navigation
[10:11]	Paul Churchill:	it changes such a fundamental behaviour
[10:11]	Benjamin Linden:	we'll make sure it gets a good once-over, Paul. thanks for your patch!
[10:11]	Torley Linden:	Oh fortunate us! Paul has investigated and done a patch!
[10:11]	Paul Churchill:	you're welcome.
[10:11]	Torley Linden:	Thanks Paul. :)
[10:12]	Benjamin Linden:	ok let's go ahead and import this. I'll circle back with Ricahrd to make sure there are no conflicts with other parts of the keyboard nav system
[10:12]	Torley Linden:	*imports*
[10:12]	Benjamin Linden:	thanks Torley
[10:12]	Torley Linden:	:)
[10:12]	Benjamin Linden:	ok next is
[10:12]	Benjamin Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2072
[10:12]	Torley Linden:	Iridium you markin' da items off as we go along?
[10:12]	Benjamin Linden:	ah yes
[10:12]	Iridium Linden:	You're too fast, Benjamin.
[10:12]	Paul Churchill:	this old chestnut
[10:12]	Kitty Barnett:	didn't we do that one last week? :o
[10:12]	Paul Churchill:	was MISC-82
[10:13]	Wyn Galbraith votes for that.
[10:13]	Benjamin Linden:	sorry what about misc-82?
[10:13]	Paul Churchill:	ported to 1.18.2.0
[10:13]	Roof Doors:	Asuka Neely is at the door.
[10:13]	Benjamin Linden:	so I've been discussing VWR-2072 internally
[10:13]	Rob Linden:	looks like it's already been imported
[10:14]	Roof Doors:	Benjamin Linden is at the door.
[10:14]	Paul Churchill:	this started life as MISC-82 and was discussed under that label last week
[10:14]	Benjamin Linden:	my concern is that with the current layout of the communicate window, if we add a button to the IM window it will make the chatterbox larger
[10:14]	Torley Linden:	Ah yes Paul, that's what happened.
[10:18]	Torley Linden:	We're back!
[10:18]	Benjamin Linden:	sorry folks, I got booted
[10:18]	Nock Forager:	Everyone crashed.
[10:18]	Torley Linden:	Looks like all of us did?
[10:18]	Daedalus Young:	I think we all did yes
[10:18]	Torley Linden:	Yeah the region went down for a moment, looks like.
[10:18]	Kitty Barnett:	sim blinked I think :o
[10:18]	McCabe Maxsted:	got sent home
[10:19]	Benjamin Linden:	well at least now I can sit down :-)
[10:19]	Squirrel Wood:	Murphys law. It really exists ^^
[10:19]	Benjamin Linden:	I appreciate the irony that the sims crash during our bug triages :-)
[10:19]	McCabe Maxsted:	:)
[10:19]	Kitty Barnett:	errr.... :o
[10:19]	Torley Linden:	Oh gosh did I just see a car fly over!?
[10:19]	Kitty Barnett blinks
[10:19]	Torley Linden:	What in blazes!
[10:19]	Kooky Jetaime:	hahahah
[10:20]	Benjamin Linden:	oh that's probably my wand
[10:20]	Kooky Jetaime:	flew into Ben, and then through the floor
[10:20]	Benjamin Linden:	oops
[10:20]	Kooky Jetaime:	wow
[10:20]	Roof Doors:	Paul Churchill is at the door.
[10:20]	Benjamin Linden:	I love love love residents who attend office hours
[10:20]	Benjamin Linden:	wand off
[10:20]	Starax's Magic Wand - V2.26+: Okay, I'm off
[10:20]	Kitty Barnett:	hehe cute
[10:20]	Kooky Jetaime:	haha
[10:20]	McCabe Maxsted:	awww
[10:20]	Benjamin Linden:	ok let's jump back into the agenda
[10:20]	Benjamin Linden:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/UI_Agenda
[10:20]	Torley Linden:	Hahahaha.
[10:21]	Inara Marquette:	eep hope i didnt land on anyone
[10:21]	Benjamin Linden:	I'm not sure if anyone saw my comments about https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2072
[10:21]	Benjamin Linden:	but we're working on it
[10:21]	Torley Linden:	*scrolls up*
[10:21]	Benjamin Linden:	ok I was scanning through the long list of bugs
[10:21]	Dzonatas Sol:	k everybody relogged faster than me... lol
[10:21]	McCabe Maxsted:	what was the internal discussion?
[10:21]	Kitty Barnett:	"Benjamin Linden: my concern is that with the current layout of the communicate window, if we add a button to the IM window it will make the chatterbox larger" that's the last bit I saw
[10:22]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, I don't want to make the window any bigger after all feedback we've gotten on it
[10:22]	Paul Churchill:	I added to the empty space top right
[10:22]	Iridium Linden:	kk, we all back?
[10:22]	Iridium Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2072
[10:22]	McCabe Maxsted:	saw my comment, but I was considering adding a >> to the IM window that would let people teleport, drop inv, etc
[10:22]	Dzonatas Sol:	mmhmm the window is big as is
[10:22]	Benjamin Linden:	Paul, when I saw a screenshot of the patch, it made the minimum size of the window larger
[10:22]	Revolution Perenti:	almost i think
[10:22]	Iridium Linden:	Are we resolving or leaving this one open?
[10:23]	Paul Churchill:	ahhh
[10:23]	Benjamin Linden:	we're leaving it open
[10:23]	Benjamin Linden:	coco is working on it
[10:23]	Paul Churchill:	never thought of that, but you'd be correct
[10:23]	Benjamin Linden:	eventually I'd like to add a dropdown menu that gives you access to more frequently used commands
[10:24]	Benjamin Linden:	including profile, offer tp, show on map, etc
[10:24]	Kitty Barnett:	does it really have to be a button? something like a toolbar with icons would save space? even if SL doesn't have anything like it elsewhere :o
[10:24]	Benjamin Linden:	ok let's go on
[10:24]	Iridium Linden:	Ah, so we've imported it already?
[10:24]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, it's been imported Iridium
[10:24]	Benjamin Linden:	yes Kitty, we could explore something like that
[10:25]	Iridium Linden:	kk, so shall we move on?
[10:25]	Iridium Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-515
[10:25]	Squirrel Wood:	I guess so?
[10:25]	Inara Marquette:	lol
[10:25]	Torley Linden:	*looks*
[10:25]	Torley Linden:	That's interesting.
[10:25]	Benjamin Linden:	actually there are some high-vote bugs in here
[10:25]	Daedalus Young:	I couldn't repro this
[10:25]	Squirrel Wood:	needs more info?
[10:26]	Iridium Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2060
[10:26]	Revolution Perenti:	more info needed not enough info to backtrace ()
[10:26]	Iridium Linden:	Shall I reorganize this, Benjamin?
[10:26]	Torley Linden:	Yeah, I can't repro VWR-515 either.
[10:26]	Torley Linden:	I'll mark "Cannot Reproduce" and ask for more info!
[10:26]	Iridium Linden:	I seem to recall that we've addressed some of these though.
[10:26]	Benjamin Linden:	it's probably too many to reorg right now
[10:26]	Benjamin Linden:	thanks Torley
[10:26]	Iridium Linden:	For example, https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-977.
[10:27]	Iridium Linden:	Didn't we discuss that one?
[10:27]	Benjamin Linden:	hmm I don't actually remember discussing that
[10:27]	Kitty Barnett:	2060 is a scripting bug, not a UI bug? :o
[10:27]	Wyn Galbraith remembers to remove the Iridium period off that link.
[10:27]	Iridium Linden:	kk, I know it was on a past agenda.
[10:27]	Benjamin Linden:	yes there seems to be a lot of stuff in here
[10:27]	Iridium Linden:	lol
[10:27]	Iridium Linden:	Thanks, Wyn.
[10:27]	Wyn Galbraith:	LOL
[10:28]	McCabe Maxsted:	alt zoom's always been a bit wonky
[10:28]	Iridium Linden:	Well, should we then just start at the top?
[10:28]	Benjamin Linden:	one reason we were a little slow getting started this morning is because we didn't actually have an agenda :-)
[10:28]	Benjamin Linden:	we were sort of hoping you guys would jump in and help us set the agenda
[10:28]	Squirrel Wood:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-468 has 15 votes
[10:28]	Torley Linden:	I'm not clear on what's meant in VWR-977 -- this is one of those times a video would come in handy.
[10:28]	Squirrel Wood:	Rob filled the agenda minutes before you showed up :
[10:28]	Wyn Galbraith is trainable. "Ah you threw the agenda together at the last minute, impressive."
[10:28]	Paul Churchill disagrees - he had the agenda all to himself until Rob took it off him
[10:28]	Paul Churchill:	.me grins
[10:28]	Benjamin Linden:	that was all Rob's doing!
[10:28]	Kitty Barnett:	lol
[10:29]	Paul Churchill grins
[10:29]	Kitty Barnett:	we did discuss 977 :o or something much like it anyway :o
[10:29]	Benjamin Linden:	there are quite a few scripting bugs in here
[10:29]	Wyn Galbraith:	I've seen that. Like inside of a cut prim.
[10:29]	Torley Linden:	And BTW, re: VWR-468, we already have something like that.
[10:30]	Benjamin Linden:	and feature requests
[10:30]	Torley Linden:	Wyn: Yeah, the repro steps for 977 aren't specific enough.
[10:30]	Kitty Barnett gets confused by all the numbers now lol
[10:30]	Wyn Galbraith:	If you take a 10m cube, hollow and cut it, then zoom to the inside the camera goes nuts.
[10:30]	McCabe Maxsted:	you can repro it using a 95% hollow and a 10x10x10 sphere
[10:30]	Iridium Linden:	Benjamin, I an reorganize this in 2 minutes.
[10:30]	Torley Linden:	OK, so that's the missing part there -- that it's HOLLOW.
[10:30]	Wyn Galbraith:	Exactly, McCabe.
[10:30]	Benjamin Linden:	ok thanks Iridium
[10:31]	Torley Linden:	Well I'd be more than happy to take a closer look at VWR-977 later and repro it, since it clearly doesn't happen with "anything" for me at least.
[10:31]	Dzonatas Sol:	VWR-489, lots of votes, but it still is in design
[10:31]	Wyn Galbraith:	My neighbor just showed be that in Foyle Gully. I had seen it but didn't realize what was causing it till she pointed it out.
[10:31]	Wyn Galbraith puts in her two cents on VWR-977
[10:32]	ROBO Marx:	yeah u got that off
[10:32]	Torley Linden:	OK thanks Wyn and McCabe, if you guys have more details to add to that, please go ahead... I already posted a comment.
[10:32]	Benjamin Linden:	this is great Dzonatas!
[10:32]	Revolution Perenti:	i take a look later too torley, there still awefull alot of bugs ie mainly around llSetPrimitiveParams function
[10:32]	Wyn Galbraith:	Quick little bunny, Torley ;)
[10:32]	Torley Linden:	Thanks a lot Revolution!
[10:32]	Benjamin Linden:	thanks for pointing this one out; I love that there's a UI design thread going on in Jira!
[10:32]	Torley Linden:	Hehe gotta move fast.
[10:32]	Dzonatas Sol:	I like the new inventory layout look... it still needs sub-tasks to sort out options
[10:32]	Wyn Galbraith:	Well, now I don't have to, thanks.
[10:33]	Torley Linden:	Yeah, I'm glad how 489 was reopened with more specifics.
[10:33]	Squirrel Wood:	one thing that I have noticed with the camera is that sometimes it switches between zoom modes randomly... from normal to the one for extreme closeup
[10:33]	Revolution Perenti:	i updat that repo after the meeting and some testing of course
[10:33]	Torley Linden:	Often, a problem with feature requests are they're vague... they tell of the desired results but not of the intermediary steps... so this is very much appreciated. :)
[10:34]	Dzonatas Sol:	I believe the inventory part can be done separatly before multiple attachments
[10:34]	Benjamin Linden:	hmm this one's interesting
[10:34]	Benjamin Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1945
[10:34]	Iridium Linden:	k, refresh.
[10:34]	Benjamin Linden:	I'm going to go ahead and import 1945
[10:34]	Torley Linden:	Haha, OMG, I have the same reaction as Lex!
[10:34]	Benjamin Linden:	since I just repro'd it
[10:34]	Benjamin Linden:	:-)
[10:34]	Torley Linden:	I had no idea that minimized windows could be moved!
[10:34]	Benjamin Linden:	I didn't either Torley
[10:34]	Torley Linden:	Sounds good to import then Ben!?
[10:35]	Iridium Linden:	Oh, these aren't all bugs.
[10:35]	McCabe Maxsted:	hehe it was snuck in
[10:35]	Iridium Linden:	:(
[10:35]	Daedalus Young:	ohh, that's cool
[10:35]	Benjamin Linden:	but it's also strange that you can see parts of the window even when it's minimized
[10:35]	Torley Linden:	Yeah definitely buggy that is.
[10:35]	Benjamin Linden:	ok I imported it
[10:35]	Torley Linden:	Kewl!
[10:35]	Benjamin Linden:	let's look at iridium's new list
[10:35]	Squirrel Wood:	I've seen parts of windows on peoples bodies. with the chat even updating!
[10:36]	Benjamin Linden:	how is this sorted Iridium?
[10:36]	Iridium Linden:	Well, those weren't all bugs.
[10:36]	Iridium Linden:	So now it's a mess.
[10:36]	Iridium Linden:	Let me do this quickely.
[10:37]	Iridium Linden:	Or if someone still has the old text, could you edit and repaste?
[10:37]	Torley Linden:	Squirrel, how do you do that? :O I've seen QuickTime streams play on an avatar before.
[10:37]	Benjamin Linden:	you can pull it from history Iridium
[10:37]	Benjamin Linden:	in the meantime I'll just grab random bugs
[10:37]	Benjamin Linden:	like this: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-389
[10:37]	Torley Linden:	It's a UI bug jamboree free-for-all thing!
[10:37]	Squirrel Wood:	I have yet to see it with the latest client torley. I've seen it happen maybe twice within the past year
[10:38]	Kitty Barnett:	that one isn't relevant anymore? 389
[10:38]	Benjamin Linden:	does this work for people?
[10:38]	McCabe Maxsted:	it persists for me
[10:39]	Benjamin Linden:	even between logoffs McCabe?
[10:39]	Iridium Linden:	i'm just going to grab the first 15 regardless of votes.
[10:39]	Kitty Barnett:	I think 1.14 was that version that forced it to unchecked by default causing a lot of commotion, but that was a onetime thingy
[10:39]	McCabe Maxsted nods. I've only set it once
[10:39]	Torley Linden:	Yeah I have several checkboxes that are still unchecked "Show Mature" even tho I've logged off many times.
[10:39]	Torley Linden:	OK... let's resolve it then, sounds like it's fixed.
[10:39]	Rob Linden:	looks like enough people weighed in on 389 that I'd resolve/cannot repro
[10:39]	Benjamin Linden:	agreed
[10:39]	Torley Linden:	Thanks Rob and Ben!
[10:39]	Torley Linden:	*resolves*
[10:40]	Iridium Linden:	k, refresh, please!
[10:40]	Wyn Galbraith:	CCLM
[10:40]	Revolution Perenti:	i seen at times where a dos box would start showing everything thats going on in the viewer after bad crash, maybe something simimlar to this and i can reporduce and write up if req
[10:40]	Benjamin Linden:	Iridium, can you put the title of 1945 back, please?
[10:40]	Revolution Perenti:	realted to the main settings .ini files getting currupt during updates and crashes
[10:40]	Iridium Linden:	Yup
[10:40]	Benjamin Linden:	ok there's a new list, please reload the agenda
[10:40]	Benjamin Linden:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/UI_Agenda
[10:41]	Benjamin Linden:	sadly none of these have any votes
[10:41]	Benjamin Linden:	but let's just get through them in the time we have left
[10:41]	Benjamin Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-888
[10:42]	Torley Linden:	Hmm... a video too.
[10:42]	Benjamin Linden:	I don't have the right codec to view the videos
[10:42]	Revolution Perenti:	i take a look at them all Ben , did not know about this wilki
[10:42]	Torley Linden:	*tries to watch 'em*
[10:42]	Daedalus Young:	I couldn't watch the videos, my system thinks it's audio
[10:42]	Iridium Linden:	Yeah, they are good bugs though, some of them.
[10:42]	Wyn Galbraith:	What app opens .ogg files?
[10:43]	Benjamin Linden:	I'm not sure Wyn, I'm guessing you need the correct codec
[10:43]	Squirrel Wood:	vlc mayhaps ?
[10:43]	Torley Linden:	I highly recommend K-Lite Codec pack on Windows! OODLES OF CODECS!
[10:43]	Wyn Galbraith has never seen that before.
[10:43]	Daedalus Young:	for me, Audacity :P
[10:43]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, Torley :-)
[10:43]	Benjamin Linden:	were you able to play the video?
[10:43]	Paul Churchill:	sorry, got to leave ...
[10:43]	Paul Churchill:	bye
[10:43]	Daedalus Young:	but I'd suggest using at least mpeg-4 for video repros, that should work for everyone
[10:43]	Torley Linden:	Anyway, I watched the video -- the issue here appears to be that the selection beam, rather than focusing on the selected object, shoots out the same direction that the hand is pointing.
[10:43]	Wyn Galbraith:	Geeze just when I think I have all formats accounted for someone comes up with another.
[10:43]	McCabe Maxsted:	I was. The selectin beam shoots off into the distance
[10:43]	Benjamin Linden:	how does that happen?
[10:43]	Torley Linden:	I haven't seen this on any of my NVIDIA systems... I wonder if anyone else has had this issue?
[10:44]	Dzonatas Sol:	is it more of a graphics issue
[10:44]	Revolution Perenti:	i check the VWR-888 later so i can see the videos but might need bit more info
[10:44]	Torley Linden:	Yeah, it's more of a graphics issue too, I'd say.
[10:44]	Benjamin Linden:	I think we need to close no-repro and get more details
[10:44]	Torley Linden:	Sounds good.
[10:44]	Torley Linden:	*resolves as Cannot Reproduce*
[10:44]	Benjamin Linden:	thanks Torley
[10:44]	Benjamin Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1214
[10:44]	Revolution Perenti:	there are issues with textures are all nvida 3.x driver sets i know of under sl
[10:45]	Revolution Perenti:	texture making objects looks trasnparent , hollow , or vanishing textures on huds
[10:45]	Benjamin Linden:	is this related to the Communicate window? I can't tell...
[10:45]	McCabe Maxsted:	I'm not sure what exactly the issue is
[10:46]	Daedalus Young:	I think the Group Info window
[10:46]	Kitty Barnett:	can't be, it's reported for 1.17?
[10:46]	Daedalus Young:	but I've never seen something like this
[10:46]	Torley Linden:	1214 sounds like a problem that happened in an earlier First Look: Voice.
[10:46]	Coffee Mug whispers: Ahh! Fresh Hot Coffee
[10:46]	Daedalus Young:	I'd say More Info, as we're not sure what it's about
[10:46]	Squirrel Wood:	that one may be related to lag/packet loss ?
[10:46]	Iridium Linden:	kk, needs more info.
[10:46]	Benjamin Linden:	yeah I agree
[10:46]	Torley Linden:	Yeah, "Needs More Info" -- I bet from the time period, this is related to Voice.
[10:47]	Iridium Linden:	And some more current info.
[10:47]	Benjamin Linden:	I can't repro it
[10:47]	Revolution Perenti:	dont seem to see issue myself , needs more info
[10:47]	Iridium Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1467
[10:47]	McCabe Maxsted:	doesn't scroll for me
[10:48]	Benjamin Linden:	I guess the larger question is, should it?
[10:48]	Nock Forager:	Is this expected to working so?
[10:48]	Revolution Perenti:	you would just pull the item down myself and scolls auto or open new inventry windows and copy and drag
[10:48]	McCabe Maxsted:	I'd rather it didn't
[10:48]	Benjamin Linden:	I think I discussed this with Richard a while back, he called it "hot scrolling"
[10:48]	Squirrel Wood:	default windows behavior methinks is scrolling.
[10:48]	Daedalus Young:	I think this is a feature, as you can easily create a second Inventory window, scroll that and drag the items from window to window
[10:48]	Squirrel Wood:	so mayhaps it should?
[10:48]	McCabe Maxsted:	ah I didn't think of that dae
[10:48]	Torley Linden:	It sounds like that's a better approach (and one of my fave techniques, Daedalus).
[10:49]	Torley Linden:	I'd rather dragging to scrollbar didn't scroll. It doesn't do that in Windows.
[10:49]	Dzonatas Sol:	is this like dragging an item to the bottom of a window to expect it to scroll down
[10:49]	Revolution Perenti:	i normally go for the 2 inventry windows or sorting or moving inventry
[10:49]	Iridium Linden:	So even though it's a feature request, should we import it anyway?
[10:49]	Benjamin Linden:	torley, can you import this and assign it to me? I'll investigate with Richard
[10:49]	Torley Linden:	OK...
[10:49]	Benjamin Linden:	thanks
[10:49]	Dzonatas Sol:	the 2 window option is workable
[10:49]	Torley Linden:	That's a great tip and I luv it.
[10:49]	Torley Linden:	*imports* Anyone who wants to comment re: 2 inventory windows, feel free to!
[10:49]	Iridium Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1469
[10:50]	Wyn Galbraith:	My SL curse is my inventory.
[10:50]	Iridium Linden:	Is this still an issue?
[10:50]	Kitty Barnett:	you can drag/drop between two inventory tabs too
[10:50]	Revolution Perenti:	lol my inventry a mess :P 103k of it
[10:50]	Daedalus Young:	I'm not sure if the suggested fix actually worked here
[10:51]	Torley Linden:	Hmmm I know this one.
[10:51]	Daedalus Young:	the original poster did say it was unticked after the update, but not if that fixes it
[10:51]	Kitty Barnett:	user error rather than bug I think
[10:51]	McCabe Maxsted:	there are some nifty ideas in the inv meta issue wyn for helping to sort it
[10:51]	Torley Linden:	Those hover tips are OFF by default.
[10:51]	Torley Linden:	This was a design decision made awhile ago, to avoid cramming too much info into new Residents' heads...
[10:51]	Kitty Barnett:	Ctrl-Shift-T is very close to Ctrl-Alt-T
[10:51]	Daedalus Young:	yes Kitty, I often confuse them :P
[10:51]	Torley Linden:	Ventrella Linden knows more about the history of how those came to be.
[10:52]	Wyn Galbraith:	LOL. I know what one thing that might fix the problem with inventory and thats duplicate items. I should see if someone's suggested that yet.
[10:52]	Revolution Perenti:	you mean like the pay on objects with money() event torley
[10:52]	Squirrel Wood:	I want buyable prims to start jumping and doing saltos when the mouse hovers over them ^^ ;)
[10:52]	Iridium Linden:	Hmm, so how shall we mark this one?
[10:52]	Benjamin Linden:	ok we should probably close this one, no repro
[10:52]	Wyn Galbraith:	LOL Squirrel!
[10:52]	Iridium Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1515
[10:53]	Daedalus Young:	agreed
[10:53]	McCabe Maxsted:	for you wyn: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1975
[10:53]	Torley Linden:	OK... moving on...
[10:53]	Kitty Barnett:	and singing "Buy me! Buy me!"?
[10:53]	Revolution Perenti:	lol
[10:53]	Nock Forager:	lol
[10:53]	Torley Linden:	Hmmm actually VWR-1469 seems more like "Won't Finish" because there is a repro there?
[10:53]	Benjamin Linden:	ok that sounds good Torley
[10:53]	Torley Linden:	K.
[10:54]	Revolution Perenti:	ok this issue common problem on sims, upload / download que getting stuck causing phantom prims
[10:54]	Kitty Barnett:	1515 reproduces for me
[10:54]	Benjamin Linden:	I think it's fine to import this but it's probably pretty low priority
[10:54]	Wyn Galbraith:	Thanks McCabe, that's similar, my idea is a bit different.
[10:54]	Torley Linden:	I'll change priority of VWR-1515 to "Small" then import.
[10:55]	Squirrel Wood:	the code for the proper behavior does already exist so it should hopefully be trivial to fix :)
[10:55]	Benjamin Linden:	the stats bar drives me nuts anyway, it clearly was never designed to be an end-user facing feature
[10:55]	Torley Linden:	Me too.
[10:55]	Revolution Perenti:	i can give write up more techincal on this if it will help devs i seem to have good understanding how the sim /server is working and why we get alot of bugs recently with phantom prims effected more so on mainland too
[10:55]	Squirrel Wood:	bandwidth is capped at 900, yet the bar often shoots waaaay over that mark... mayhaps update that one too ?
[10:55]	Benjamin Linden:	ok next up
[10:56]	Kitty Barnett:	1590 reproduces for me too
[10:56]	Daedalus Young:	yes, for me too
[10:56]	Wyn Galbraith:	Is there a catagory in jira for feature suggestions?
[10:56]	Kitty Barnett:	although never really ran into it :o
[10:56]	Dzonatas Sol:	not catagory.. just check feature instead of bug
[10:57]	Wyn Galbraith:	Ah, thanks Dzonatas.
[10:57]	Daedalus Young:	to me, it makes sense to open the properties of the selected item, regardless of if the right-click is done on another item
[10:57]	Revolution Perenti:	i bookmark this i add to it
[10:57]	Benjamin Linden:	I agree this is strange
[10:57]	Benjamin Linden:	I think the right menu should close
[10:57]	Torley Linden:	A focus issue eh?
[10:57]	Benjamin Linden:	or the keyboard focus should move to it
[10:57]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, let's import this one
[10:57]	Torley Linden:	*imports*
[10:58]	Iridium Linden:	k, we still have some time.
[10:58]	Iridium Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1588
[10:58]	Daedalus Young:	not sure this is a bug, as Lex comments
[10:59]	Daedalus Young:	Save button is only re-enabled if something actually changes in the script
[10:59]	Benjamin Linden:	I don't script enough to know how this should behave
[10:59]	Wyn Galbraith:	I noticed this last night.
[10:59]	Nock Forager:	I think so too. it's not a bug.
[10:59]	Wyn Galbraith:	I don't think it re-enables the save unless you've made a change.
[10:59]	Daedalus Young:	and then there's always Tools > Recompile scripts
[10:59]	McCabe Maxsted:	I think Lex is right in this is the expected behavior
[10:59]	Wyn Galbraith:	Which makes sense to me.
[10:59]	Benjamin Linden:	ok let's close won't finish, by design
[10:59]	Squirrel Wood:	standard behavior is pause/unpause script
[10:59]	Torley Linden:	K! We're moving fast.
[10:59]	Revolution Perenti:	is this related to turn the active script off check box as it works and you dont need to press save
[10:59]	Torley Linden:	*marks as Won't Finish*
[11:00]	Benjamin Linden:	it does sound like there's some confusing overlap between the checkbox and the menu item
[11:00]	Object: Hello, Avatar!
[11:00]	Iridium Linden:	Do we have time for one more?
[11:00]	Benjamin Linden:	yes
[11:00]	Wyn Galbraith:	I often stop running while playing with scripts like for sliding doors, because the door can go elsewhere until I change the coords.
[11:00]	Iridium Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1333
[11:00]	Revolution Perenti:	think he means when you press make script inactive checkbox expecting to press save ?
[11:00]	Wyn Galbraith:	So then clicking running should see the save button ungreyed until it's saved.
[11:01]	Daedalus Young:	I don't really understand 1333, as that keystroke never rotated the cam at all
[11:01]	Benjamin Linden:	hmm I didn't even know about this
[11:01]	Benjamin Linden:	I thought that key combination pans the camera
[11:01]	Torley Linden:	Yeah Daedalus, good point.
[11:01]	Squirrel Wood:	I don't see how exact 90° cam rotations can be so uber important? I have built quite complex stuff without 90° turns
[11:01]	Torley Linden:	It's definitely not critical either.
[11:01]	Revolution Perenti:	would you like me write better understanding for repo for you more of step by step gude what he thinks should happen
[11:01]	Kitty Barnett:	if it's equivalen to the Windows Ctrl+Alt+Shift for moving the camera then that works on Windows :o
[11:02]	Torley Linden:	Hmmm...
[11:02]	Daedalus Young:	rotating is done with alt or ctrl-alt
[11:02]	Benjamin Linden:	that pans, not rotates
[11:02]	Daedalus Young:	alt = option
[11:02]	Revolution Perenti:	ctrl+alt :P
[11:02]	Torley Linden:	Yes, there's a difference between Zoom, Pan, and Orbit.
[11:02]	Benjamin Linden:	torley, you can close "no repro" and ask them to be more specific
[11:02]	Torley Linden:	You can see in the edit tools -- Focus (Ctrl-1 on Windows).
[11:02]	Torley Linden:	Yes, good idea.
[11:02]	Revolution Perenti:	i agree
[11:02]	Benjamin Linden:	explaining that the key combination they mention is for panning, not rotating
[11:03]	Kitty Barnett:	I only found out about the panning option this weekend cause my shift key got stuck :o hehe
[11:03]	Benjamin Linden:	hey Prospero, nice cape!
[11:03]	Benjamin Linden:	ok folks we're out of time
[11:03]	Prospero Linden:	THanks :)
[11:03]	Benjamin Linden:	thanks for coming, as always
[11:03]	Torley Linden:	Heyhey Prospero!
[11:03]	Torley Linden:	Good to see ya!
[11:03]	Benjamin Linden:	and do please take a moment to check the agenda a few days before the meeting
[11:03]	Prospero Linden:	Hey Torley!
[11:03]	Benjamin Linden:	and add bugs you'd like to discuss
[11:04]	McCabe Maxsted:	thanks for hosting benjamin and torley :)
[11:04]	Prospero Linden:	Ah, the floor just rezzed
[11:04]	Revolution Perenti:	ok Ben,Torley,Rob & Iridium thanks for your time
[11:04]	Torley Linden:	And Iridium of course!
[11:04]	Torley Linden:	Thanks for being here with us. :D
[11:04]	Torley Linden:	And thanks to Rob for helping us get started early on!
[11:04]	Revolution Perenti:	he so small dont see him
[11:04]	Squirrel Wood:	The agenda was about empty until rob filled it minutes before you arrived ben
[11:04]	Iridium Linden:	Yay, thanks for coming everyone.
[11:04]	Daedalus Young:	thanks Lindens!
[11:04]	Torley Linden:	Prospero, that happened to me too... hehe...
[11:04]	McCabe Maxsted bows to iridium, and rob too
[11:04]	Iridium Linden:	See you next week.
[11:04]	Torley Linden:	what a trip, invisible floors!
[11:04]	Wyn Galbraith:	Thanks for the meeting it's always fun and a learning experience.