User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-16

Topic & Summary

User Experience Interest Group Discussion for April 16, 2009.

Topic: Extending Picks and the Profile.

We discussed ideas for extending and improving the Picks section of the user profile. Later, we discussed the user profile window in general. Some notable ideas that arose:

• Different types or categories of Picks, in addition to "location":
  • Person, with link to their profile. E.g. show a picture and talk about your best friends.
  • General text/info. E.g. store policy, funny quotes, roleplaying bios, etc.
  • "My Store/Products/Creations", show a picture and describe, with a location or even attach the item itself.
  • Web link. List your blog, Facebook page, etc.
• Ability to offer -- or even sell -- items on your profile. Mobile store-front! Possibility for integration with Xstreet SL, too.
• Move profiles partly or totally to the web. Allow accessing and editing them from outside SL. Possible integration with social networks (Twitter, Facebook, etc.).
• When viewing another person's profile, hide the tabs on the top row for sections that they haven't filled out. E.g. if they have no active classifieds, don't bother with a Classifieds section when viewing their profile.
• New way to send someone inventory via their profile (alternative to drag-and-drop): click a "Send inventory" button in their profile; this would open up a mini inventory window (ala texture picker) to select an item or folder; press Send to send the selected item(s).
• URLs in Picks should be clickable.
• We need more slots for Picks!
• Better feedback about how much more text you are allowed to type into profile fields, so text isn't unexpectedly truncated when saved.
• Better access to the "My Notes" profile field, e.g. quick pop-up from the friends list.

Transcript

[15:12]	Jacek Antonelli:	Well, we should get started -- I have to leave a bit early today to attend a RL event.
[15:13]	McCabe Maxsted nods
[15:13]	Charlette Proto:	oops Real Life™ - spooky
[15:13]	Jacek Antonelli:	Today's topic is "extending picks" -- how can the Picks system (in user profiles) be extended or enhanced to be more useful for the sort of stuff people actually want to do with them?
[15:14]	Jacek Antonelli:	For example, a lot of people have picks about certain close friends, with info, quotes, a picture, etc.
[15:14]	Charlette Proto:	what about a People TAB
[15:14]	Charlette Proto:	YES please
[15:14]	Jacek Antonelli:	But Picks weren't originally meant for people -- just for locations. So there's no way to, say, link your pick to that person's profile.
[15:15]	Jacek Antonelli:	What are some other ways people use Picks, besides the intended use (a public list of favorite locations in SL) ?
[15:15]	McCabe Maxsted waves to robin :) pull up a shroom?
[15:15]	Charlette Proto:	I also thought some users would benefit from 'creative/commercial/merchant' like Tab more than eg Notes
[15:16]	Jacek Antonelli:	What sort of information would you put there, Charlette?
[15:16]	Charlette Proto:	well I use Places for PEOPLE mostly sry
[15:16]	Jacek Antonelli waves to Dale :)
[15:16]	Dale Glass:	hi :-)
[15:16]	Opensource Obscure:	Picks are sometimes used by residents to host answers to questions that get frequently asked to them
[15:16]	Dirk Talamasca:	Hiya Dale
[15:16]	Charlette Proto:	the stuff we do inworld eg stuff we sel etc if you mean the Commercial Tab
[15:17]	Charlette Proto:	sell*
[15:17]	Jacek Antonelli:	Yep, good example. I seem to remember Torley having a bunch of information in his picks, for one
[15:17]	Jacek Antonelli:	Although it looks like he's trimmed it down a bit since I last looked
[15:17]	Charlette Proto:	there is a lot of people searching for stuff following the author/creator/designer
[15:18]	Jacek Antonelli:	Charlette: So, a place to list your creations and products?
[15:18]	McCabe Maxsted:	yeah. It seems like every big merchant or employee has one at the top of their picks saying "look here first"
[15:19]	Charlette Proto:	yes and any inworld business one has or wants to promote
[15:19]	Jacek Antonelli nods to McCabe. I've seen that a lot. E.g. store policy, how to best contact them, etc.
[15:19]	Jacek Antonelli:	That's an interesting idea, Charlette
[15:20]	Jacek Antonelli:	Hrm. Places, people, information, creations/products/stores. What else do people put in their picks, or would like to put there?
[15:20]	Charlette Proto:	thanks I think a lot of builders etc would benefit and we want to promote trade beyond location based vendors etc
[15:21]	Charlette Proto:	as it is Places is the most used Tab and nobody has enough room
[15:22]	Charlette Proto:	also more than 10 items in the given list would help
[15:22]	Jacek Antonelli:	Yeah, I've heard a lot of requests for more Pick slots
[15:23]	Charlette Proto:	1st life page for example is hardly used for anything but a joke (but I understand we have SN residents too)
[15:23]	Robin Cornelius:	the current layout is not friendly with expending that or even showing the name on the tab with much detail with more that a couple
[15:23]	McCabe Maxsted:	friends are the most obvious categoroy I can think of. It's always seemed strange to me that we've hacked that on for so long without any built in support for it, i.e. thumnbails, flist, etc
[15:23]	Jacek Antonelli peeks at everyone's Picks to see what they have. :D
[15:23]	McCabe Maxsted has funny quotes :D
[15:23]	Charlette Proto:	is there a way to provide a more flexible lalyou eg optional Tabs which some residents would no use?
[15:24]	Charlette Proto:	yes McCabe People/Friends/Idols hehe
[15:24]	Opensource Obscure:	I don't know if this is in topic, but Classifieds is empty for most residents. Those who have lots of classifieds may also have legit alternate accounts - that's to say that maybe there is space in the Classifieds tab that could be used in a different way than now
[15:24]	Charlette Proto:	what about not showing empty tabs in the viewer?
[15:25]	McCabe Maxsted ponders.... listing people in the classified tab... hmmm...
[15:25]	Robin Cornelius:	if you're going for extra tabs allow arbatary naming of the new tabs
[15:25]	Charlette Proto:	Classifieds can be considered as related to Commercial.Creative
[15:25]	Dirk Talamasca:	Yes, there is.. Put all of that info on the web and get it out of the viewer where you can see it and interact with it properly.. and post your epic song lyrics and your emotional tirades and store policies and conspiracy theories concerning LL.
[15:25]	Charlette Proto:	hehe
[15:25]	Garmin Kawaguichi:	:))
[15:26]	Jacek Antonelli:	One important difference with Classifieds, is that you have to pay for them, and everybody's classifieds are aggregated to the Search window
[15:26]	Opensource Obscure:	(nevermind the alternate accounts reference, too hard to explain what i was thinking about)
[15:26]	Charlette Proto:	songs about Lindens and our neverending love for individual ones
[15:26]	Rob Linden has to run now
[15:26]	Rob Linden waves
[15:26]	Jacek Antonelli waves to Rob. Take care!
[15:26]	Dale Glass:	On not showing empty tabs: that'd require making a query to find out whether there's anything to show
[15:26]	Dale Glass:	right now that would only be done if the user goes to the tab
[15:26]	Garmin Kawaguichi:	bye Rob
[15:26]	McCabe Maxsted:	dirk: I think the main argument against that would be immersion. We do everything in the viewer, build, write notecards, explore. To be part of the viewer, it should have inworld access first, I believe
[15:26]	Jacek Antonelli:	So yes, the Classifieds tab tends to be empty for most people, as they don't have anything they want to spend money to sell or advertise.
[15:27]	Dirk Talamasca:	You can't really argue that popping up someones profile with a photo from icanhazcheezeburger on it is not going to ruin your immersive toleplay adventure in Midian City
[15:28]	Dirk Talamasca:	roleplay
[15:28]	Charlette Proto:	hehe Dirk
[15:28]	Charlette Proto:	what about "My Fav Lindens" tab
[15:28]	McCabe Maxsted:	no, but it'll break your engagement with the software. You'll be transition between the game and out, and you'll probably feel it
[15:29]	McCabe Maxsted:	(especially if you run fullscreen)
[15:30]	Jacek Antonelli:	Here's a thought that has come up in previous discussions about Picks -- attaching items to your picks, so people could grab a copy of them
[15:30]	Ellla McMahon:	the web page could be accessed via the Profile web tab
[15:30]	Charlette Proto:	seriously, could the tabs be a 'comprehensive' list from which people pic the ones they want and the profile would only show those which are used?
[15:30]	Jacek Antonelli:	E.g. notecards, freebies, whatever
[15:31]	Charlette Proto:	makes sense jacek
[15:31]	Charlette Proto:	even sell items from a profile
[15:31]	Charlette Proto:	if that was possible
[15:32]	Charlette Proto:	like inworld ebay
[15:32]	Jacek Antonelli:	That's an interesting idea. You could run a small shop without any actual shop location.
[15:32]	Dirk Talamasca:	Where does it all get stored?
[15:32]	Charlette Proto:	yeah a person instead of location based trade
[15:32]	Jacek Antonelli:	Where does what get stored, Dirk?
[15:33]	Dirk Talamasca:	Your notecards and objects and other goodies
[15:33]	Dirk Talamasca:	And all of the information detailing what it is that you are giving away
[15:33]	Opensource Obscure:	a single notecard could store other items
[15:33]	Jacek Antonelli:	Well, they'd just be asset references, just like items embedded in notecards
[15:34]	Jacek Antonelli:	So presumably that could be stored on the SL servers, in the same way current picks store a location and snapshot reference
[15:34]	Opensource Obscure:	that would be perfect IMHO. it's quick - just 1 more click
[15:34]	Dirk Talamasca:	So why do we want to heap more load on the asset server?
[15:35]	Jacek Antonelli:	Because it could improve the user experience, and it wouldn't actually be very much extra load?
[15:35]	Opensource Obscure:	i don't see this add much load if compared to other activities and interactions on the grid - but it's just my feeling
[15:36]	Opensource Obscure:	did any Linden comment this idea?
[15:37]	Charlette Proto:	profiles arn't accessed very often but a more customiable profile would really be of benefit for many users, especially those with more advanced needs
[15:37]	Jacek Antonelli:	A pick that had a reference to an inventory item wouldn't take up much more space than one with a location. And copying the item from the pick isn't any more load than a regular user-to-user inventory transfer
[15:37]	Dirk Talamasca:	Stragely enough they pulled ratings out of our profiles because of the load it was pulling... This seems to be adding load back to it
[15:38]	Jacek Antonelli:	Apples and oranges.
[15:38]	Charlette Proto:	yeah but a better profile floater would be of great benefit
[15:38]	McCabe Maxsted:	the rating load was having to generate a list of ratings for everyone in a sim all over the grid; this is just referencing data in a different way
[15:39]	McCabe Maxsted:	charlette: interesting idea; what would you like the profile window to do that it now doesn't?
[15:40]	McCabe Maxsted suspects his idea of 'zap people you don't like' is prolly too much of an edge case....
[15:40]	Jacek Antonelli grins
[15:40]	Charlette Proto:	mostly the extra/optional tabs and perhaps expandable ammount of info
[15:40]	Opensource Obscure:	I'd simply need a blank page like My Notes (but public) - just let me write inside it
[15:40]	Jacek Antonelli:	User profiles need Superpokes and Walls to write on! xD
[15:40]	Jacek Antonelli:	And a Scrabble game.
[15:41]	Charlette Proto:	many of the tabs are currently unused and are a bore to look at
[15:41]	McCabe Maxsted:	what if we got rid of tabs altogether?
[15:41]	Dirk Talamasca:	And doesn't it have to store and fetch every poem that I paste into it, every song that inspires me and every delightful writeup I have to make about a place in SL? When I open your profile, that information doesn't mgically appear just because you are present.. It is taking up space somewhere waiting to be sent to me.
[15:41]	Jacek Antonelli:	Good point, Charlette. So, pick and choose which tabs you have? Let the user remove ones they don't use, and add in more of the ones they do?
[15:41]	Robin Cornelius:	Removing any unused tabs would not be that difficult to do now and would only be viewer side changes
[15:41]	McCabe Maxsted:	instead of a tab, you had a little profile icon and a link to someone else's profile that'd be displayed in a different part
[15:42]	McCabe Maxsted:	the inv icons could be used to represent different categories
[15:42]	Charlette Proto:	Tabs are a good layout I think, but when empty become a real bore
[15:42]	Jacek Antonelli:	That's true Robin. It might require some extra fetches, I think. I'm not sure if the viewer fetches the tab contents when you open the profile, or when you open that tab itself
[15:43]	Charlette Proto:	yes could have icons/emoticons too just for fun
[15:43]	Jacek Antonelli:	It's certainly feasible to hide tabs that the person hasn't filled out
[15:43]	McCabe Maxsted:	isn't that already done? I've seen people with just one tab
[15:43]	Jacek Antonelli:	Really, McCabe? o_O
[15:44]	Opensource Obscure:	i don't think so ..
[15:44]	Charlette Proto:	that would be a great start jacek and give an instant 'lift' to the profile
[15:44]	McCabe Maxsted loooks at ella's profile. She only has four
[15:44]	Opensource Obscure:	i agree w/ charlette
[15:44]	Opensource Obscure:	I see 7 in Ella's profile
[15:44]	McCabe Maxsted:	oh *forehead smack*
[15:44]	Jacek Antonelli thinks McCabe has been sampling the happy sauce
[15:44]	McCabe Maxsted:	wrong tab row
[15:44]	Jacek Antonelli:	Ah, hehehe
[15:45]	McCabe Maxsted:	hush: I just woke up, I haven't even had my morning compile yet :P
[15:45]	Opensource Obscure:	hehee
[15:45]	McCabe Maxsted seconds the good idea :)
[15:45]	Jacek Antonelli:	Yeah, we're talking about the top row of tabs in the profile, not just about picks
[15:45]	Charlette Proto:	eg most people don't have web, but one clicks but selected ones would give an instant snapshot of the persons interests etc
[15:46]	Charlette Proto:	yes the main tabs in the profile floater
[15:46]	Jacek Antonelli:	So if someone didn't have any Classifieds, there'd be no Classifieds tab when you look at their profile. Or if their 1st Life tab is empty, no tab.
[15:46]	Charlette Proto:	precisely
[15:46]	Jacek Antonelli:	Etc.
[15:46]	Jacek Antonelli:	That's a nice idea
[15:47]	Charlette Proto:	even 1st life - it is a statement if you have nothing there and it would actually say something at the first glance at the floater
[15:47]	Charlette Proto:	hehe jinx
[15:47]	McCabe Maxsted:	lthis is slightly more complicated, but would it be possible to have a "send inventory to this person" button that pops up a limited instance of your inv for transfering?
[15:47]	McCabe Maxsted:	I've never really come around to the whole drag-and-drop thing
[15:47]	Jacek Antonelli:	Limited instance?
[15:47]	McCabe Maxsted:	er, just a file window
[15:48]	Charlette Proto:	yes McCabe the 'drop items here' is quite obscure
[15:48]	McCabe Maxsted:	select folder or item to send
[15:48]	Jacek Antonelli:	Ah, sortof like the texture picker, a mini inventory window
[15:48]	McCabe Maxsted:	drag and drop just feels so... inaccurate
[15:48]	McCabe Maxsted:	yeah
[15:48]	McCabe Maxsted:	FILE PICKER!
[15:48]	Jacek Antonelli:	That's an interesting idea
[15:48]	McCabe Maxsted claims copywrite...
[15:48]	Jacek Antonelli:	hehehe
[15:49]	Jacek Antonelli:	Okay, I'm afraid I have to duck out -- RL calls. McCabe, can you email me the transcript when the meeting wraps up?
[15:49]	McCabe Maxsted:	for example, you can drag and drop inv anywhere on a profile's front tab, despite what the little box says; you can't do it with other tabs thoughI don't think, and what if you miss?
[15:49]	McCabe Maxsted:	sure
[15:49]	McCabe Maxsted waves. Goodluck :)
[15:49]	Charlette Proto:	we have 'Pay' and from the User Experience point of view 'Buy This' would really work well and save many TPs on the grid
[15:49]	Opensource Obscure:	ciao aJacek
[15:49]	Opensource Obscure:	*Jacek
[15:49]	Morgaine Dinova:	Cyu Jacek :-)
[15:50]	Charlette Proto:	so some of this change could actually reduce load
[15:50]	Charlette Proto:	bye jacek
[15:50]	Jacek Antonelli:	Okay, take care everyone! Nice discussion :) Feel free to keep going, I'll be interested to read what you have to say later
[15:50]	Jacek Antonelli waves and poofs
[15:50]	McCabe Maxsted added an invite to group button ages ago... *has patch lurking somewhere in his dungeon*
[15:51]	Robin Cornelius:	Bye
[15:51]	Morgaine Dinova:	McCabe: it's behind the 5 skulls in the corner
[15:51]	McCabe Maxsted grins
[15:52]	Charlette Proto:	I really think there is some sense in trading from the profile because it is focused on the creator and would save so many useless TPs and the need for many LM which tend to date
[15:52]	Charlette Proto:	accounts are more persistent than shop/vendor locations
[15:53]	McCabe Maxsted:	what if we integrated profile status with facebook, or twitter, so people could change their status inworld and it'd show up in their profile heading, or have a twitter feed become a part of it (I think their api allows for stuff like this, but as I said I'm still slightly groggy)
[15:54]	McCabe Maxsted thinks dirk has a really good point about all the social networking stuff people use outside of SL™
[15:54]	Charlette Proto:	facebook? I know LL may like it in view of their SN outlook on Second Life™ and i suppose it could be one of the options for tabs
[15:55]	McCabe Maxsted:	yeah, but why should anyone ever feel the need to make a myspace page for their avatar? To me, it feels like a waste
[15:56]	Opensource Obscure:	not sure I get what you mean, mccabe - actually I created accounts on many social networks for my avatar only
[15:56]	Dirk Talamasca:	Why allow that freedom? Why not just allow the same things that you allow on the profile currently?
[15:57]	McCabe Maxsted:	I suppose I'm just thinking in terms fo connectivity
[15:58]	Morgaine Dinova:	Web-2.0 social networking is 99.9% RL people networking. I don't see why virtual people shouldn't do the same, but it's pretty rare. I know of only a few SL musicians who do not put their RL name alongside their SL one on myspace for example. It's pretty much an RL site only.
[15:58]	Charlette Proto:	the external (facebook/myspace) links are kind of part of the Web tab and a number of links there would address all these needs
[15:59]	McCabe Maxsted:	would people who use social networking features outside of SL™ use those same ones inworld? or is it really just having your avatar in that place where other people are?
[15:59]	Opensource Obscure:	I think that flickr, youtube, twitter have plenty of SL-only identities
[15:59]	Morgaine Dinova:	Same for all the other web-2.0 sites. Facebook even makes it a requirement, doesn't it? Or something like that, fairly strong anyway.
[15:59]	Opensource Obscure:	on a slightly different topic - clickable web addresses in Picks are needed
[15:59]	McCabe Maxsted:	yeah, indeed. And in notices
[16:00]	Charlette Proto:	OK expand the Web tab and and make it a list of links not just one URL
[16:00]	Opensource Obscure:	maybe one main page as it's currently, PLUS a dropdown menu with secondary links
[16:00]	Charlette Proto:	??? URLs all over the profile items don't sound too bad
[16:01]	Charlette Proto:	contextual URL links
[16:01]	McCabe Maxsted would love a list of everywhere they're not clickable, could prolly all be fixed at once
[16:01]	Charlette Proto:	avatar profile is a very important floater when you consider SN residents
[16:02]	McCabe Maxsted:	secondary links?
[16:02]	Charlette Proto:	yeah a conextual menu McCabe
[16:02]	Charlette Proto:	eg Buy, URL etc
[16:03]	Charlette Proto:	Copy LM
[16:03]	Opensource Obscure:	pccabe: i'l start digging https://jira.secondlife.com/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?reset=true&&query=clickable&summary=true&description=true&body=true&status=1&status=3&status=4
[16:03]	McCabe Maxsted:	cool :)
[16:04]	McCabe Maxsted:	are you on the imprudence forums or have a lighthouse account?
[16:04]	Opensource Obscure:	i'm on the impr. forums
[16:04]	Opensource Obscure:	by the way those JIRA tickets are only about blue popups and alert windows
[16:04]	Charlette Proto:	me too but not as much as Morgaine
[16:05]	Opensource Obscure:	excuse me, kitten needs attention
[16:05]	McCabe Maxsted:	http://imprudence.lighthouseapp.com/projects/17526/tickets/33-make-urls-in-alert-dialogs-and-profiles-clickable I assigned that to me back when I thought the media system would be easy; if you find anything else or want to submit a patch for it, please feel free to post 'em there
[16:05]	McCabe Maxsted:	awww
[16:06]	Opensource Obscure:	( i can't code unfortunately )
[16:06]	McCabe Maxsted:	hah, maybe we should make all picks in LOL? You get a picture of a place or a friend and one caption, and people vote
[16:07]	McCabe Maxsted:	(btw: on that. I do *believe* I've fixed streaming audio across the board. Lord. Gstreeaaaaaamer *shakes fist*)
[16:07]	Charlette Proto:	WOW fantastin McCabe
[16:08]	McCabe Maxsted coughs. Anywya. Anything else to say on profiles or picks? People who haven't said anything yet? I'm starting to ramble
[16:08]	Charlette Proto:	when will the download be updated McCabe?
[16:08]	McCabe Maxsted:	this weekend
[16:09]	McCabe Maxsted:	come hell or high water...
[16:09]	McCabe Maxsted:	(even if it's REALLY FUCKING HIGH WATER LIKE OMG)
[16:09]	McCabe Maxsted will put something out
[16:09]	Morgaine Dinova:	This whole business of picks is kind of funny to me. I'm not even sure what it means.
[16:09]	McCabe Maxsted:	how so, morgaine?
[16:10]	Charlette Proto:	so any more impressions on a 'My Products' tab and 'Buy This' / 'Take a Copy' ' 'URL Link'contextual options from pics
[16:10]	McCabe Maxsted:	like, you don't understand why people use them?
[16:11]	Charlette Proto:	I don't understand what you don't understand Morgaine
[16:11]	Morgaine Dinova:	McCabe: not sure. There's something very wrong with making a public shortlist. You know how it is when we make little shortlists of our favourite films --- utterly meaningless. And tomorrow we'd make a different list.
[16:11]	McCabe Maxsted:	hehe, yeah
[16:12]	McCabe Maxsted:	I've seen a lot picks list like those. People find enjoyment in it though. It can be nice to show off people that you care about, or places you enjoy. In my case, it helps make me feel more connected to them
[16:12]	Morgaine Dinova:	And given that picks are being gamed for profit, just makesthe whole thing even more perverse.
[16:13]	Dale Glass:	why? I see it as the SL equivalent of last.fm, or the "Links" section on somebody's website
[16:13]	McCabe Maxsted nods at dale
[16:13]	McCabe Maxsted:	I keep a running list of blogs/webcomics on my site
[16:13]	Charlette Proto:	i find updating the profile an expression of where I'm at and not so much a chore, but i don't keep and lists which cause any trubl deciding which should be there eg fav films
[16:13]	Morgaine Dinova:	Dale: link can be organized though,
[16:14]	Morgaine Dinova:	links*
[16:14]	Beatrix Menna:	hello
[16:14]	McCabe Maxsted:	so you'd rather see the picks more organized?
[16:14]	McCabe Maxsted:	ahoy beatrix :)
[16:15]	McCabe Maxsted:	ah, nm, she left, heh
[16:16]	Opensource Obscure:	what about a public blank text form in the current Web tab - until other users don't load the URL, the text is shown
[16:16]	Dale Glass:	The way I generally use picks is that I expect people to have things that are relevant to them in there
[16:17]	McCabe Maxsted:	ah, a bug opensource
[16:17]	Dale Glass:	so for instance, if somebody always uses some steampunk sort of outfit I'd expect them to have a few relevant places in their picks tab. Saves the need of asking
[16:17]	Dale Glass:	I've got Luskwood in my picks for instance
[16:18]	Charlette Proto:	any more impressions on the implications of a 'My Products' tab and 'Buy This' / 'Take a Copy' ' 'URL Link'contextual options from pics as far se saving TPs on the grid and impact on shops
[16:19]	McCabe Maxsted nods. My old home is still my to stop spot in my picks. Sometimes it was easier just to tell people to look there instead of finding their name to send alm
[16:19]	McCabe Maxsted:	*an lm
[16:19]	Charlette Proto:	I'd love the idea since I mainly buy following the creator not so much a shop
[16:19]	McCabe Maxsted:	*top spot, gah, haha
[16:20]	McCabe Maxsted:	what if picks were given their own window outside of it, where you could just look at someone's picks without seeing their profile page
[16:21]	Charlette Proto:	not sure what your intentions are McCabe
[16:21]	McCabe Maxsted:	charlette? I have none, hehe. Just throwing ideas out
[16:22]	McCabe Maxsted:	my main attention is to fix that damn ui bug where it doesn't show you how many characters you have left in the text fields
[16:22]	McCabe Maxsted:	I've lost a lot of text that way
[16:22]	McCabe Maxsted:	grr
[16:22]	Charlette Proto:	well if you have none it would be one of the hidden tabs McCabe
[16:22]	Charlette Proto:	simple
[16:23]	Opensource Obscure:	i gotta go. ciao everybody
[16:23]	McCabe Maxsted:	see ya opensource
[16:23]	McCabe Maxsted:	mmk, anything left to say on this topic?
[16:23]	Charlette Proto:	yeah I think the 'DONK' sound (perhaps more UI indication) is essential when you edit anything
[16:24]	Charlette Proto:	SO NO IMPRESSIONS ON TRADING FROM PROFILE???
[16:24]	Charlette Proto:	asked 4 times and not a peep, I'd like to know how you guys feel
[16:24]	Charlette Proto:	as I said I THINK IT IS GENIUS
[16:24]	McCabe Maxsted:	trading from people?
[16:25]	Charlette Proto:	no trading from a NEW 'Products' tab
[16:25]	Dale Glass:	well in theory it's already doable
[16:25]	Charlette Proto:	I had a very good reaction (I thought) to making Tabs optional and having a few more
[16:25]	Dale Glass:	set the web tab to the xstreetsl merchant url
[16:27]	Charlette Proto:	and you really think that is a UI functionality to use the web tab to link with xStreet and open a browser, set up zStreet account - not me
[16:27]	Arilyka Tyrellium:	I've just discovered My Notes in profile... Oh my gosh! This is like to write on someones back!
[16:27]	Arilyka Tyrellium:	What doyou typically use it for?
[16:28]	Charlette Proto:	Notes is a joke to most residents and like all tabs should not show when not used
[16:28]	Dale Glass:	I generally use for people who are not friends and with whom I may have to communicate very rarely
[16:29]	McCabe Maxsted typically uses it for.. hmm. I typically never use it, I always forget
[16:29]	Garmin Kawaguichi:	I use it when I offered a price for a land to the owner!
[16:30]	Dale Glass:	Say for instance, ocassionally somebody interested in stereoscopic visualization IMs me. Normally I don't expect to talk to them again sooner than in a week, so it's useful to have written down somewhere who is that, and why they're in my friends list
[16:31]	Charlette Proto:	there you go some use it many don't so like all tabs it should be hidden if not used - we need to discuss one day what the ADD NEW TAB UI would be like
[16:32]	McCabe Maxsted:	friends list... I think I would use notes a lot more if they were tied to that specifically
[16:32]	Charlette Proto:	true, that makes sense rather than opening the profile McCabe
[16:32]	Charlette Proto:	even a hover text
[16:33]	Arilyka Tyrellium:	Sounds useful...
[16:33]	Charlette Proto:	just that entry of HOVER text would be a new thing in the UI, but not a bad one
[16:33]	Dale Glass:	yeah, that's not the only usage though. Also works for notes like "Promised to do a script that does X by next month"
[16:33]	Charlette Proto:	HOVER text could be used in the inventory too
[16:34]	McCabe Maxsted:	that sounds more like a calendar app
[16:34]	Charlette Proto:	descriptions of items/creators/sources etc
style="white-space:nowrap;"|Charlette Proto:	well I still want a diary/callendar app inside the viewer too
[16:35]	Charlette Proto:	calendar*
[16:35]	Dirk Talamasca:	Dear Diary
[16:35]	Dirk Talamasca:	Saw Philip today
[16:36]	Dirk Talamasca:	He's soooooooooo dreamy