Bug triage/2007-10-24/Transcript

Raw chat log from the RC triage.

Trinitey Nightfire: hello
Daedalus Young: I'm doing fine, thanks
Daedalus Young: how are you?
Alissa Sabre: Hi
Daedalus Young: hi Alissa
Aric Linden: I'm fine. a little tired.
Aric Linden: Hi Alissa
Alissa Sabre: Is this the place for RC triage?
Aric Linden: Yes it is
Aric Linden: welcome
Alissa Sabre: Ok. Thanks
Aric Linden: have a seat
Aric Linden: some days, when i've been inworld all day and then I go outside, the real world doesn't seem right.
Aric Linden: does that ever happen to you/
Aric Linden: ?
McPhenius Swain: hi everyone
Daedalus Young: hi
Aric Linden: Hi McPhenius
Daedalus Young: well I often do see things that I think: oh, I need to file a JIRA on that
Daedalus Young: I was thinking we could use a JIRA on the human body, listing all diseases, trying to find links
Aric Linden: hehe
Aric Linden: nice
Aric Linden: I sometimes count prims on building IRL
McPhenius Swain: I used to have that in my profile under first life Aric
McPhenius Swain: "you know it's bad when you try to figure out how many prims you have left with the trees and buildings you pass"
Alissa Sabre: I think you are joking, but I have a feeling the current JIRA is overused already
Aric Linden: Nice McPhenius
Daedalus Young: the other day I told a friend how I like travelling by train, because "you can change your sit pose better"
McPhenius Swain: How is Bridie?
McPhenius Swain: It's been 4 weeks?
Aric Linden: Oh, we just revamped our internal jira use
Alissa Sabre: someone used JIRA for, ah, something like a general enquiry system
Aric Linden: I think this is the third week
Aric Linden: She's fine. I spoke with her yesterday in fact.
McPhenius Swain: good
Aric Linden: she's doing very well.
Aric Linden: I can't wait for her to get back tho
McPhenius Swain: lol.
Aric Linden: Too much triage
McPhenius Swain: you doing it by yourself today?
Aric Linden: 'twould appear so
Aric Linden: shall we start?
Daedalus Young: especially now with Iridium gone and Torley moving...
Daedalus Young: need more Lindens
McPhenius Swain: Sure :)
Aric Linden: you interested, Daedalus?
Alissa Sabre: I'm ready
Daedalus Young: ah, I was thinking of maybe applying
Aric Linden: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/Wednesday_Agenda
Aric Linden: in what capacity?
Alissa Sabre: don't know about "more Lindens"...
Daedalus Young: wasn't sure, I seemed to fit Liaison
Aric Linden: nice. good luck
Daedalus Young: thanks
Aric Linden: more lindens is good.
Aric Linden grins
Daedalus Young: VWR-2843 I already saw is a dupe of VWR-2797
Daedalus Young: as noted in the wiki
Aric Linden: I think we're on VWR-2834
Daedalus Young: sounds good
Alissa Sabre: seems ok.
Alissa Sabre: do we need to discuss on the severity levels?
Aric Linden: We can discuss it briefly if you'd like
Alissa Sabre: no? that's fine.
Alissa Sabre: ah, np.
Daedalus Young: hi
Aric Linden: I'll import this one
Aric Linden: VWR-2830
Daedalus Young: reproes for me
Daedalus Young: Search->Places : results show "[AREA] sq. m." in parcel details
Alissa Sabre: I didn't understand what is this issue...
McPhenius Swain: definitely not a showstopper
Dirk Talamasca: Hmmm Me either
Dirk Talamasca: Need more Info
Aric Linden: I dont' either
Daedalus Young: repro:
Daedalus Young: Go to Search
Daedalus Young: Places
Daedalus Young: enter anything you might search for
Aric Linden: I get the repro, what's the bug?
McPhenius Swain: I get it too, but is it a bug?
Daedalus Young: notice to the bottm right, for example: Traffic: 14117.Area: [AREA] sq. m.
McPhenius Swain: right
Alissa Sabre: ah, Ok.
Daedalus Young: rather than Area: 16 sqm
McPhenius Swain: just typo
Dirk Talamasca: ahhhh
Dirk Talamasca: okay gotcha
Alissa Sabre: the substring "[AREA]" should have been replaced by a name of the parcel
Alissa Sabre: no?
Daedalus Young: by the correct number
Daedalus Young: how large is the parcel? [AREA] sqm it is
Alissa Sabre: not the name of the parcel, but the number?
Alissa Sabre: well, I have never tried to buy lands, so I'm not familiar with this panel...
Daedalus Young: the amount of land it should be
Alissa Sabre: ok.
Seg Baphomet: HAY GUYS!
Aric Linden: I'm not seeing the issue, but I'm not running on the RC version
Aric Linden: Hi Seg
Daedalus Young: hi Seg
Alissa Sabre: so, the problem is that the amount of land is not shown and it says "[AREA]" there.
McPhenius Swain: Hi Seg
Daedalus Young: exactly
Aric Linden: OK.
Aric Linden: i'll import it
Alissa Sabre: It sounds like a bug, then.
Aric Linden: VWR-2827
Daedalus Young: right click of existing folder --> new folder while in inventory places you in 'rename' position of existing folder instead of creating a new sub-folder.
McPhenius Swain: I see it works fine on your Max Dae.. it's works on my XP too
Daedalus Young: did not repro for me on my Mac
McPhenius Swain: Just tried it
Daedalus Young: ok
Mary Clip: what are we supose to do here i am new
Daedalus Young: we talk about bugs, see: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/Wednesday_Agenda
Alissa Sabre: we are discussing JIRA reported issues
Alissa Sabre: one-by-one
Daedalus Young: and http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage
Alissa Sabre: we are now on VWR-2827
Opensource Obscure: i can't repro VWR-2827 on Linux, here.
Daedalus Young: which is at https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2827
Alissa Sabre: I'm too lazy and have not tried this one.
Daedalus Young: looks like reporter is confused with new behavior
Alissa Sabre: but the feeling here is "can't reproduce."
Aric Linden: I agree with you Alissa
Aric Linden: I'll update accordingly
Aric Linden: jira is slooooooooooow today
Seg Baphomet: Can't seem to repro here either. Nicholaz viewer.
Daedalus Young: wiki has been slow to me too today
Alissa Sabre: (I'd say "as always"... lol)
Harleen Gretzky: Supposedly it is a RC bug
Aric Linden: VWR-2826
Alissa Sabre: ah, of course it says so
Daedalus Young: Several problems on handling Japanese input (and possiblly Chinese/Korean also)
Alissa Sabre: ah, that's mine. lol
Seg Baphomet: Ah, I'm not up to 1.18.4 yet.
Opensource Obscure: [i should have said i'm on 1.18.4(0)]
Alissa Sabre: just moment.
Daedalus Young: I'm on the RC too, so I can see if a bug reproes :)
Alissa Sabre: on 2827.
Aric Linden: Ahh. I've already imported this one
Aric Linden: VWR-2826
Aric Linden: so we can move on
Alissa Sabre: many people said the bug doesn't reproduce
PulseBurst Flow: what do you mean by imported.
Alissa Sabre: anyone tried the bug 2827 on 1.18.4RC?
Daedalus Young: the New Folder one? yes
Alissa Sabre: or you just said "it doesn't appear on 1.18.3 viewers"
Aric Linden: Moved it from the external bug tracking system to the internal one
Alissa Sabre: Yes, new folder thing
Daedalus Young: no, I tried the New Folder bug in the latest RC, 1.18.4
Daedalus Young: and there it did not repro
Aric Linden: VWR-2824
Daedalus Young: Incorrect information in View Groups
Daedalus Young: really odd one, I have it too
Harleen Gretzky: But you are on MAC, Charlene is on Windows
Daedalus Young: seemingly random, my entire Group list says it's empty, then on relog sometimes it is back full again
Alissa Sabre: ah, I'm sorry where are we now?
PulseBurst Flow: 2827..can't reproduce with RC on OSX
Aric Linden: VWR-2824
Daedalus Young: I initially used another Issue to report this bug, but it's as described here
Alissa Sabre: so, we are now discussing on VWR-2824, incorrect info
Daedalus Young: yes
Alissa Sabre: thank you
Aric Linden: I think these *are* dupes
Alissa Sabre: (may I ask what happened on 2827 and 2826?)
Daedalus Young: 2827- can't repro, 2826 was already assigned ro Aric
Alissa Sabre: Hmm.
Aric Linden: 2826 has already been imported Alissa
Seg Baphomet: That's a springy couch. :)
Alissa Sabre: can we discuss what should be done on 2826?
PulseBurst Flow: I cant reproduce 2824 with RC and OSX
Daedalus Young: Pulse, it appears to be random on relog
McPhenius Swain: I haven't ever noticed this one
Alissa Sabre: (ok. I can get back to 2826 if we have extra time after clearing other issues. thanks.)
Daedalus Young: I don't have it now, but I had it yesterday
McPhenius Swain: Dae is it on log in or randomly while in world?
Daedalus Young: on login
McPhenius Swain: maybe lag?
Daedalus Young: so maybe it fails to load and never updates
PulseBurst Flow: Well, I had something I get might be related, but havent Jira it..
Aric Linden: it may be the asset server being behind in delivering bits and then timing out
Daedalus Young: I tried relogging in empty regions too
PulseBurst Flow: will wait.
Daedalus Young: although it first did appear after there were also payment and attachment problems
Aric Linden: I personally haven't seen this issue
Daedalus Young: that was not the case later when I relogged in an empty region
Aric Linden: my suggestion is that we close one as a dupe and import the other
Daedalus Young: sounds cool
Aric Linden: Alissa, do you want to discuss 2826?
Alissa Sabre: ah, yes, but I think we can do it later
Alissa Sabre: please go on to the next issue
Aric Linden: VWR-2823
Daedalus Young: Show in Search option is retained when tranfering or selling the object
Alissa Sabre: I have a feeling that this is not a simple bug, but related to a fundamental design issue on the new search feature
Dirk Talamasca: I think Jeska has addressed this in the blog.
Aric Linden: I think we'll import it and make sure.
Aric Linden: sound ok?
McPhenius Swain: yep
Alissa Sabre: ok.
Daedalus Young: at least 2821 is addressed in the blog
Dirk Talamasca: Before the blog comments closed, several Residents asked about the inability to change the 'show in search' checkbox on non-modifyable objects which were left set 'for sale' by their creator. We've made a change, which will push in the next release candidate, to allow owners of objects to modify the 'show in search' checkbox even if they do not have the ability to modify the object in other ways.
Daedalus Young: concerning no-mod objects
Daedalus Young: yes, that's about 2821 imo
Alissa Sabre: do we have a resolution such as "see blog"? lol
Dirk Talamasca: LOLOl
Daedalus Young: Fixed Internally, I'd say
Alissa Sabre: sounds good
Aric Linden: yep. I'll resolve it as such.
Aric Linden: /VWR-2817
Aric Linden: VWR-2817
Daedalus Young: Edit Window Displays Copy Tools Differently
Alissa Sabre: this is yours, Dirk
Alissa Sabre: what is the problem?
Aric Linden: I'm happy to import this and pass it to the RX group for their judgement.
Daedalus Young: those two checkboxes used to be on the right?
Aric Linden: I dn't know why this changed.
Dirk Talamasca: Yes thety normally appear to the right of the shapes
Alissa Sabre: so, the change of the UI panel layout *is* the problem. am I right?
Dirk Talamasca: Correct
Harleen Gretzky: the 3 Copy Selection and it's 2 subboxes
PulseBurst Flow: be nice to see side-by-side in the jira to see difference.
Aric Linden: /nods at PulseBurst
Dirk Talamasca: It is minor but still.. when you build you kind of just know where these things are after awhile
Harleen Gretzky: Copy Seelction is next to teh Grass Icon normally
Aric Linden: we can compare versions internally
Daedalus Young: and seeing there appears to be no reason for the change
Aric Linden: I'll import
Daedalus Young: oter than to annoy people :P
Alissa Sabre: One of the thing is
Alissa Sabre: 1.18.4 RC release note has no words on this change
Daedalus Young: maybe it is for future expansion adding a sculpty button
Aric Linden: I don't think it was expected. I think it's simply a bug
Alissa Sabre: so, we external developers chan't decide whether this is a bug or intended change
Aric Linden: VWR-2803
Alissa Sabre: Ok. fine.
Daedalus Young: there would've been something about it in the notes, surely
Daedalus Young: Lag Meter network ping metric doesn't account for residents outside the USA
Alissa Sabre: well,
Aric Linden: I'll import this. I think the arguments are well made
Alissa Sabre: I support the idea this is a problem
Daedalus Young: I'm often around 250 msec, which is the threshold for yellow
Alissa Sabre: but I don't support the proposed solution here.
Alissa Sabre: SL users are now in world wide, and there are various network environment
Aric Linden: what would you suggest Alissa
Alissa Sabre: we need to set some threshold
Alissa Sabre: I just want to change the wording
Alissa Sabre: something like "the network may not suitable to use SL" may be ok
Aric Linden: ok. please add your comments. or perhaps you'd prefer to do a patch?
Alissa Sabre: however, saying "problem or file shareing brah brah" seems inappropriate
Aric Linden: :-)
Alissa Sabre: I already commented
Alissa Sabre: I'm afraid my comment is not too clear...
Daedalus Young: file sharing apps do bring the ping down
Daedalus Young: I've had it at 3000 msec once
Aric Linden: yes. since you appear to feel that the solution will be accepted as is. I'm not convinced of that.
Daedalus Young: so that -can- be correct
Alissa Sabre: If we just raise the threshold to 300ms
Alissa Sabre: someone in other location would say "hey, 300ms is my normal latency."
Aric Linden: I'll go ahead and import it.
Daedalus Young: you would have to let the system learn what is the average then and let it decide on that
Alissa Sabre: I'm just afraid what the normal, no-techy end user think he/she is told "network problem"
Daedalus Young: it's different for every user
Aric Linden nods
Alissa Sabre: so, my point is
Alissa Sabre: putting some fixed threshold seems ok as a short term solution
PulseBurst Flow: where do yo see msec value?
Alissa Sabre: but we need to be careful how to express it to end users
Daedalus Young: ctrl-shift-1
Daedalus Young: Ping Sim
Daedalus Young: 230 for me atm
Daedalus Young: 172 now :P
McPhenius Swain: 84
Aric Linden: VWR-2795 is next
Daedalus Young: 234 now :P
PulseBurst Flow: Oh, I must be in some remote desert then.. ;-D
Daedalus Young: New Land Description Multiline box does not allow Line Return formatting - converts to ?
Alissa Sabre: thanks
Aric Linden: this is a bug, straightup
Alissa Sabre: I'm not familiar with land-owner's tools
Daedalus Young: yep, haven't seen it, but I'm sure it's right
PulseBurst Flow: me either.
PulseBurst Flow: haven't used it.
Aric Linden: linefeed/cr storage conversion is suspect
Alissa Sabre: yes.
Aric Linden: going from windows to linus
Aric Linden: erm linux
Daedalus Young: having programmed php before, I know that can be a pain
Alissa Sabre: so, in a previous version, land owners could use returns in description?
Daedalus Young: no, that's new
Aric Linden shrugs
Daedalus Young: you only had one line
Alissa Sabre: what I'm asking is the expected behaviour in previous versions
Alissa Sabre: or, is this panel itself is new to 1.18.4?
Aric Linden: I honestly don't know
Alissa Sabre: ok.
Alissa Sabre: so, in 1.18.3, it was one line.
Aric Linden: I suspect that a change was made to the dialog to support the new search stuff
Daedalus Young: just like with webforms, you can have an input for one line and an input (textarea) for multiple lines
Alissa Sabre: in 1.18.4, it becomes multi-line
Daedalus Young: one line does not accept returns, the textarea does
Alissa Sabre: but it doesn't allow newlines there
Aric Linden: so that descriptions can be made larger, but I don't know that for sure
Daedalus Young: I think for more usability in the new search
Aric Linden: VWR-2847
Alissa Sabre: agreed.
Aric Linden: is next
Daedalus Young: Wrong hover text in Japanese UI
Daedalus Young: Alissa's again
Alissa Sabre: that's mine.
Alissa Sabre: I believe it is just a mistake in XUI resource file for Japanese
Aric Linden: ok
Aric Linden: do you want to fix it?
Aric Linden: or should I just import it?
Alissa Sabre: ah, if you want, I can send a patch
Jarrod Fitzpatrick: Hello Aric
Aric Linden: Hi Jarrod
Daedalus Young: hi
Aric Linden: Alissa, that'd be great if you'd be willing to patch it
Alissa Sabre: should I send a patch against 1.18.4 or 1.18.3?
Aric Linden: 1.18.4
Alissa Sabre: ok. I'm doing it.
Aric Linden: since that will be release soon
Aric Linden: thanks
Alissa Sabre: you can assign this issue to me.
Aric Linden: done
Seg Baphomet: Whee.
Aric Linden: almost done
Aric Linden: VWR-2829
Daedalus Young: Texture Picker Jumps Between Multiple Highlighted Textures
Daedalus Young: I haven't seen this myself
Daedalus Young: but judging from the video, looks like the picker is trying to catch up with loading the texture
McPhenius Swain: If I am right, I think I have had this... but it might be that Dae
McPhenius Swain: I have closed, then re=open and was fine
Daedalus Young: and jumps back up when a particular texture is loaded
Aric Linden: I think i'll import this for internal repro
McPhenius Swain: I haven't had this issue for quite sometime, but I alsso upgraded my video card a month ago
Aric Linden: that's interesting McPhenius
Aric Linden: Worth seeing if we can repro it inhouse
McPhenius Swain: I completely forgot about that.. until I watched the video, it's been awhile
PulseBurst Flow: can't view the .avi
McPhenius Swain: I was using a ATI Radeon 700 Pro 256mb previously
McPhenius Swain: now using Nvidia 7600 GS
Daedalus Young: ah, the issue lists ati radeon too
McPhenius Swain: rigth
Aric Linden: SVC-846
Daedalus Young: then I have to recheck it, I have that too in my machine
Aric Linden: is next
Daedalus Young: on a mac though
Aric Linden: is this still an issue?
Alissa Sabre: I just want to know the reason
Daedalus Young: Can't start 1.18.3(5) RC viewer after 1.18.4(0) RC appeared
Alissa Sabre: was it a right thing?
Daedalus Young: I see what you mean
Harleen Gretzky: Because that RC went standard
Alissa Sabre: 1.18.3.5 RELEASE viewer is compatible to the current grid, so is 1.18.3.5 RC
PulseBurst Flow: I am not going to try to reproduce this.
Alissa Sabre: why LL excluded use of 1.18.3.5 RC
Harleen Gretzky: But there is no reason to use that RC, it is the same as teh standard viewer
Daedalus Young: those two are the same
Aric Linden: yes. it's the new upgrade model
Daedalus Young: so you would have the official one -and- an RC, which are exactly the same
Aric Linden: I'd like to simply close this if that's ok?
Alissa Sabre: so, Aric, you said it is intended
Aric Linden: yes
Alissa Sabre: can I have rationale?
Alissa Sabre: well, for this particular case, it's ok.
Alissa Sabre: because 1.18.3.5 RC and release are identical
Alissa Sabre: however, we sometimes need to run _old_ viewers to see the old behaviour
Aric Linden: as daedalus said, we're trying to keep the release candidate channel for release candidates and production channel for production versions
Daedalus Young: if 1.18.4.1 comes out, it will prob be optional then
Alissa Sabre: during trouble shooting
PulseBurst Flow: well, if they meant 1.18.3.5 RC, and that's the same as release..then it is a problem
Alissa Sabre: so, makeing as much viewer versions runnable seems good
PulseBurst Flow: if someone wants to try lastest RC, but go back tonormally using current released.
Aric Linden: they can do that with the new model, PulseBurst
Alissa Sabre: the 1.18.3.5 RC binary is identical to 1.18.3.5 RELEASE
Alissa Sabre: but there are some difference in resource
Aric Linden: yes. that's correct Alissa
PulseBurst Flow: right..so they can try RC, and go back to last release..
Aric Linden: name resource and date are the difference
Alissa Sabre: what is PulseBUrst?
PulseBurst Flow: me
Alissa Sabre: ah, sorry LOL
Aric Linden: that's completely do-able
PulseBurst Flow: ;-D
Aric Linden: are we good?
Alissa Sabre: ok
Daedalus Young: rather than rolling out all the RCs as new official viewers, we special dedicated bold Resi's are chosen to try them out before the masses start crying about broken things :)
Aric Linden: I'm afraid we're out of time
Daedalus Young: and out of issues
Alissa Sabre: ok, the last word on my japanese input method thing
Aric Linden: yes. Alissa, was there something specific you wanted to cover
Dirk Talamasca: Thanks, Aric :D
Aric Linden: yes?
Aric Linden: thanks to all of you
Alissa Sabre: I just wanted to say that this issue need not to be fixed.
Aric Linden: ok
Alissa Sabre: instead, I just want to revert the changes from 1.18.3.5
Aric Linden: ok.
Alissa Sabre: the currrent 1.18.4 RC viewer is unusable if you use Japanese
Aric Linden: I'll reassign it to you and you can patch it or whatever
Alissa Sabre: but fixing these new feature is useless, because better improvement on input method handling is coming
Alissa Sabre: no, that's not the point
Aric Linden: yes. it's true
Aric Linden: we're working it
Alissa Sabre: just remove all related changes introduced in 1.18.4
Aric Linden: Ok. I'll close it
Alissa Sabre: that's what I propose here
Alissa Sabre: fine.
Aric Linden: thanks
Aric Linden: I've got to run
Alissa Sabre: thank you for giving me time to say that
Daedalus Young: ok see you later
Aric Linden: np
tuck Tamura: how's everyone?
Aric Linden: see you all later
PulseBurst Flow: bye all
Daedalus Young: doing fine, Tuck
tuck Tamura: nice
Alissa Sabre: Aric has gone soooo fast. lol
Daedalus Young: just finishing here though
tuck Tamura: oh ok
tuck Tamura: no prob
tuck Tamura: gonna hit the bed anyways
Alissa Sabre: a time zone problem?
Daedalus Young: there's just the funnest thing, to the East of here, Jp Linden has been riding a crab all hour
PulseBurst Flow: :)
tuck Tamura: this music is horrific
tuck Tamura: hurts my ears
Daedalus Young: oh, I don't even have it on
PulseBurst Flow: have it off.
Alissa Sabre: then, I'm leaving too
Alissa Sabre: bye all
PulseBurst Flow: is there a meeting here now...
Daedalus Young: see you later
Harleen Gretzky: bye
tuck Tamura: bye miss
PulseBurst Flow: see you all..
PulseBurst Flow: bye
Daedalus Young: I'll be off too
Daedalus Young: see you