Bug triage/2008-03-17/Transcript

• [12:06] Bridie Linden: Ok, first up...
• [12:06] Bridie Linden: VWR-1153[c
• [12:07] Gigs Taggart: This one is related to 1042 ... if we make sculpts now show up when their texture isn't loaded, animated sculpts will dissappear between frames
• [12:07] Gigs Taggart: now/not
• [12:07] Alexa Linden: this is interesting
• [12:07] Alexa Linden: would you rather know where things are going to appear or not?
• [12:07] Gigs Taggart: of course now they revert to sphere between frames which is what 1042 complains about
• [12:07] Alexa Linden: yup
• [12:07] Bridie Linden: Not sure what/if the answer is here...
• [12:08] Harleen Gretzky: Qarl has an animate script that preloads the textures so that does not happen
• [12:08] Soft Linden: So I think sculted prims already do load incrementally. It's just that getting up to 32x32 happens almost instantly once a texture -does- start decoding.
• [12:08] Gigs Taggart: probably, it's not much data
• [12:08] Alexa Linden: Squirrel ^^
• [12:08] Squirrel Wood: /ao off
• [12:08] Squirrel Wood: Tacos!
• [12:08] Gigs Taggart: maybe sculpts could be higher priority in the decode queue?
• [12:08] Squirrel Wood: Err.. Hello!
• [12:09] Bridie Linden: Hi Squirrel
• [12:09] Bridie Linden: what would you make them higher than?
• [12:09] Gigs Taggart: normal textures
• [12:09] Soft Linden: I like the icosphere suggestion
• [12:10] Harleen Gretzky: There is another JIRA about increasing the priority in the interest list, which looks to be the same thing here, but on that JIRA it was commented that sculpties are already high on the interest list
• [12:10] Soft Linden: Basically, a different geometry that you don't see all over the place instead of just a sphere.
• [12:10] Bridie Linden: nods to Harleen
• [12:10] Gigs Taggart: aren't all spheres in SL icospheres? :P
• [12:10] Gigs Taggart: zooms out
• [12:10] Harleen Gretzky: [1]
• [12:11] Soft Linden: Well, a coarse, intentionally heavily faceted shape
• [12:11] Alexa Linden: do we want to import and discuss?
• [12:11] Squirrel Wood: load whats closest to the avatar first? wouzld that work?
• [12:11] Gigs Taggart: qarl seemed incline to not fix it
• [12:11] Gigs Taggart: harleens bug is about sculpt priority
• [12:12] Gigs Taggart: that might be better to look at :P
• [12:12] Soft Linden: A specific suggestion would help before importing.
• [12:12] Bridie Linden: I can bring up w/our internal triage team again, but can't promise any action...
• [12:12] Soft Linden: The suggestion about decoding sculpty textures before rendering textures could make a big difference.
• [12:12] Squirrel Wood: This latest RC client has a terrible memory leak anyway.
• [12:13] Soft Linden: Let's bring this back into triage next week, adding a comment asking for specific fix ideas.
• [12:13] Bridie Linden: I'll ping Qarl in the mean time...
• [12:13] Alexa Linden: do you want to ass that Soft?
• [12:13] Soft Linden: Sure, Alexa - adding a comment now.
• [12:13] Bridie Linden: let's keep moving -- and of course add any comments you all have
• [12:13] Alexa Linden: and I'll mark this as last triaged with today's date?
• [12:13] Soft Linden: k!
• [12:13] Bridie Linden: ty Alexa
• [12:13] Bridie Linden: Next...
• [12:13] Bridie Linden: VWR-4245[c
• [12:13] Harleen Gretzky: I related it to VWR-3798 also
• [12:14] Bridie Linden: Thx Harleen
• [12:15] Gigs Taggart: 4245 is a duplicate of the "random hanging"
• [12:15] Squirrel Wood: Ye
• [12:15] Squirrel Wood: I see that with the latest rc when it starts shuffling page file content
• [12:15] Bridie Linden: That last comment offers a repro...
• [12:15] Squirrel Wood: Which it happens to do quite often especially in busy areas.
• [12:16] Gigs Taggart: that repro isn't solid
• [12:16] Gigs Taggart: but it's generally right, pulling the camera to a new scene does trigger it more often
• [12:16] Gigs Taggart: it's a terrible bug
• [12:16] Bridie Linden: Should we close as a dupe of 5655?
• [12:17] Squirrel Wood: just stand around for some time, then turn 180 degrees. instant freeze
• [12:17] Soft Linden: It's not VWR-2051 actually?
• [12:17] Gigs Taggart: I don't think it's appropriate to have a meta-issue for things that are likely the same bug :P
• [12:17] Gigs Taggart: so yeah dup to 2051 feels better to me
• [12:17] Alexa Linden: got it
• [12:18] Bridie Linden: nods
• [12:18] Bridie Linden: Next...
• [12:18] Faelyn Raymaker: accepted your inventory offer.
• [12:18] Bridie Linden: VWR-1998[c
• [12:18] Squirrel Wood: (waiting) and (hippos) I guess
• [12:18] Harleen Gretzky: McCabe says this is not a dupe of VWR-4570 and SVC-85 but I am not seeing why it is not a dupe
• [12:18] Squirrel Wood: .
• [12:19] Alexa Linden: I had that a few times this weekend
• [12:19] Bridie Linden: 'waiting' friends list issue has been fixed in 1.19.1
• [12:19] Gigs Taggart: What I don't get about the friends list, is that if you click on a Hippos entry, you get the profile of the user.
• [12:19] Alexa Linden: yes
• [12:19] Soft Linden: I believe Bridie's comment that it's a dupe of VWR-4570 is correct.
• [12:19] Gigs Taggart: If it's not loading then why does the client know who is who? :P
• [12:20] Squirrel Wood: the client may have a UUID but no name for it ?
• [12:20] Soft Linden: The comment reopening it points out that the difference is a select few items not loading versus the whole list.
• [12:20] Soft Linden: But underneath, it would be the same problem.
• [12:20] Bridie Linden: nods
• [12:20] Alexa Linden: so close as a dup?
• [12:20] Soft Linden: clearing cache invalidates all the names. When you have just a few it's because only a few name cache entries have expired.
• [12:20] Soft Linden: Yes, a dupe.
• [12:20] Alexa Linden: noted
• [12:21] Bridie Linden: Next...
• [12:21] Bridie Linden: VWR-534[c
• [12:21] Squirrel Wood: This requires Sarts!
• [12:21] Bridie Linden: goes and gets her sarts...
• [12:21] Soft Linden: This is worth looking into. It's possible Vista changes the mechanism by which the default browser is registered or discovered. :P
• [12:21] Gigs Taggart: I don't know about vista but it works right in linux, albiet slow.
• [12:22] Electron Electricteeth: Soft: Indeed it does, i've had issues with other softwares.
• [12:22] Gigs Taggart: the post from Nedrae tells how to change the behavior in linux
• [12:23] Soft Linden: Yes - googling around, I see other apps having this problem.
• [12:23] Bridie Linden: So, not an SL issue then?
• [12:23] Gigs Taggart: x-www-browser should be a symlink in linux to your default browser
• [12:23] Squirrel Wood: vista issue
• [12:23] Gigs Taggart: I would say in linux this is not a SL issue
• [12:23] Soft Linden: Well, it's probably a Vista issue that -we- have to fix.
• [12:23] Bridie Linden: Let's import and have a looksie then
• [12:24] Soft Linden: If MS changed the API for using the right browser, we need to compensate.
• [12:24] Soft Linden: Ya.
• [12:24] Alexa Linden: assign to?
• [12:24] Alexa Linden: traige?
• [12:24] Alexa Linden: traige*
• [12:24] Alexa Linden: you know
• [12:24] Bridie Linden: nods
• [12:24] Alexa Linden: sighs at her spelling
• [12:24] Electron Electricteeth: grins
• [12:24] Bridie Linden: Moving right along...
• [12:24] Bridie Linden: VWR-1592[c
• [12:25] Gigs Taggart: Never seen that one.
• [12:25] Soft Linden: This is definitely still happening. I constantly have to sit on something and stand up to reset ground position.
• [12:25] Electron Electricteeth: I've experienced it personally
• [12:25] Alexa Linden: me too
• [12:25] Soft Linden: I think it has to do with having shoes/lower leg attachments.
• [12:25] Gigs Taggart: heh guess I'm just lucky
• [12:26] Gigs Taggart: Andrew resolved this fixed once
• [12:26] Soft Linden: Should go to QA, I think. They can work out a repro for the Havok fellows.
• [12:26] Bridie Linden: So Andrew thought he fixed but ...
• [12:26] Gigs Taggart: it's possible it's fixed in a version people weren't using yet... maybe?
• [12:26] Electron Electricteeth: Yeah i believe Andrew had it fixed when Jcool and I tried to reproduce it in crash me
• [12:26] Bridie Linden: Unclear
• [12:27] Soft Linden: Pretty sure it's a sim issue, not a viewer issue.
• [12:27] Gigs Taggart: oh
• [12:27] Bridie Linden: nods
• [12:27] Bridie Linden: Let's have QA take a look.
• [12:27] Gigs Taggart: well it could be viewer, in the animation system
• [12:27] Alexa Linden: noted
• [12:27] Bridie Linden: ok to move on?
• [12:27] Gigs Taggart: sure
• [12:27] Bridie Linden: VWR-4167[c
• [12:28] Alexa Linden: I seez it!
• [12:28] Harleen Gretzky: me too
• [12:28] Alexa Linden: the winking and blinking!
• [12:28] Electron Electricteeth: o.o me three
• [12:28] Squirrel Wood: the light does not highlight the prim
• [12:29] Squirrel Wood: it is emitting from
• [12:29] Squirrel Wood: which is the actual issue I believe
• [12:29] Gigs Taggart: this was a duplicate that someone reopened
• [12:29] Gigs Taggart: duplicate of a fixed bug
• [12:30] Harleen Gretzky: The duplicate was not strong enogh, this is not lighting the prim that has the light feature turned on
• [12:30] Gigs Taggart: looks like it might be valid still
• [12:30] Gigs Taggart: yeah
• [12:30] Bridie Linden: Let's import and give to Pastrami
• [12:30] Alexa Linden: ok
• [12:30] Soft Linden: Yeah. Not lighting itself.
• [12:30] Harleen Gretzky: see teh prim is still dark
• [12:30] Bridie Linden: nods
• [12:30] Gigs Taggart: not in windlight :P
• [12:31] Squirrel Wood: shiny, colored, and visible
• [12:31] Gigs Taggart: weird
• [12:31] Electron Electricteeth: very strnage indeed
• [12:31] Electron Electricteeth: strange*
• [12:31] Electron Electricteeth: sorry Alexa... stole your typo thunder
• [12:31] Alexa Linden: lol
• [12:32] Bridie Linden: Ok, next on our list...
• [12:32] Bridie Linden: VWR-2370[c
• [12:32] Gigs Taggart: 2370 another dupe of the other one
• [12:32] Alexa Linden: yes
• [12:32] Bridie Linden: nods
• [12:32] Gigs Taggart: LL really really really needs to get that one nailed :P
• [12:32] Alexa Linden: close as dup?
• [12:32] Alexa Linden: and do we have the dup #?
• [12:32] Bridie Linden: Yes, 2051?
• [12:32] Alexa Linden: ty
• [12:32] Alexa Linden: noted and will close
• [12:33] Gigs Taggart: 205
• [12:33] Gigs Taggart: 2051
• [12:33] Alexa Linden: takes a bite of the carrot and smiles
• [12:33] Squirrel Wood: ^^
• [12:33] Electron Electricteeth: ^^
• [12:33] Bridie Linden: Gold sarts for me, Alexa and Gigs
• [12:33] Bridie Linden: On to patches...
• [12:33] Squirrel Wood: Yum!
• [12:33] Alexa Linden: HAHAHAHA
• [12:33] Electron Electricteeth: lol
• [12:33] Alexa Linden: on to patches :)
• [12:34] Bridie Linden: VWR-5636[c
• [12:34] Squirrel Wood: hmm.. does llGetStartParameter() actually work? I know its broken on mono...
• [12:34] Bridie Linden: (no gold sarts to my external mouse which is misbehaving)
• [12:34] Electron Electricteeth: ive never even used that function o.O
• [12:34] Gigs Taggart: squirrel it's broken on mono and on main grid last I heard
• [12:34] Gigs Taggart: 5636 is mine
• [12:34] Gigs Taggart: someone needs to look at that class
• [12:35] Gigs Taggart: it's definitely working in an unexpected way
• [12:35] Bridie Linden: hmms
• [12:35] Bridie Linden: looks @ Soft...
• [12:35] Bridie Linden: But maybe we can give to the Mono folks
• [12:35] Soft Linden: How many things are using stop() ?
• [12:35] Gigs Taggart: this isn't LSL
• [12:35] Bridie Linden: oh, sorry
• [12:36] Gigs Taggart: soft I got about 10 hits in the client source for LLTimer.stop
• [12:36] Soft Linden: Alright. This is worth a look by Shiny, I think. Suddenly making that functionality work could have very bad effects if people have been coding around it not working all this time.
• [12:36] Gigs Taggart: yeah that was my thought too
• [12:36] Bridie Linden: nods
• [12:36] Soft Linden: But it's legit, if events are still firing off after stop
• [12:36] Alexa Linden: ok - will import
• [12:37] Gigs Taggart: yeah, also .stop() doesn't actually change anything in LLTimer base class either
• [12:37] Bridie Linden: Ask Steve to have a look, Alexa
• [12:37] Alexa Linden: ok
• [12:37] Gigs Taggart: just a bool that isn't used by the class itself
• [12:38] Bridie Linden: Next patch...
• [12:38] Bridie Linden: VWR-5659[c
• [12:38] Electron Electricteeth: gstreamer never works for me either
• [12:38] Gigs Taggart: this is an important step for moving toward OpenAL and away from Fmod
• [12:38] Electron Electricteeth: thats quite a bug
• [12:38] Harleen Gretzky: M@ was asked to add this last week
• [12:38] Harleen Gretzky: *M2
• [12:38] Soft Linden: We can't really take this in yet. One thing we need to do is to get a proper abstraction of audio streaming, rather t
• [12:39] Soft Linden: rather than taking something in that will need ifdefs peppered through the code.
• [12:39] Electron Electricteeth: hmm
• [12:39] Soft Linden: If we abstract the streaming class and work against that, then we won't have one or the other breaking all the time.
• [12:39] Electron Electricteeth: nods
• [12:39] Bridie Linden: So we wait?
• [12:39] Soft Linden: We talked about that a bit during open source office hours. Need to kick off a discussion on sldeva bout what that abstraction should look like.
• [12:39] Soft Linden: Yeah, need to wait yet.
• [12:40] Bridie Linden: kk
• [12:40] Alexa Linden: I can mark with last Triaged for now?
• [12:40] Soft Linden: Sure!
• [12:40] Bridie Linden: Next...
• [12:40] Alexa Linden: ok
• [12:40] Bridie Linden: [c
• [12:40] Electron Electricteeth: err
• [12:40] Bridie Linden: VWR-5414
• [12:40] Gigs Taggart: hehe
• [12:40] Gigs Taggart: import
• [12:40] Gigs Taggart: it's like a typo bug
• [12:41] Bridie Linden: hee
• [12:41] Alexa Linden: assign to?
• [12:41] Gigs Taggart: look at try2
• [12:41] Soft Linden: Assign to me, please - if it's still an issue it should be a 10 second fix
• [12:41] Alexa Linden: ok
• [12:41] Bridie Linden: yea for quick fixes!
• [12:41] Bridie Linden: Next up
• [12:41] Bridie Linden: VWR-5444[c
• [12:41] Soft Linden: Dupe and already resolved fix-pending
• [12:42] Bridie Linden: indeed!
• [12:42] Gigs Taggart: what's DPATCH?
• [12:42] Soft Linden: Can skip the rest of the patches section. The Solaris stuff is back burner at the moment, and the others are dupes handled by Phoenix already.
• [12:43] Alexa Linden: ok
• [12:43] Bridie Linden: nods
• [12:43] Alexa Linden: skipping down to Misc. Pool?
• [12:43] Bridie Linden: Yes!
• [12:43] Alexa Linden: wow
• [12:43] Alexa Linden: a new record :P
• [12:43] Gigs Taggart: sorry my sljirastats site seems to be acting up
• [12:43] Gigs Taggart: I need to check it
• [12:43] Bridie Linden: Next...
• [12:43] Bridie Linden: Misc Pool Misc Pool
• [12:43] Bridie Linden: sorry
• [12:43] Gigs Taggart: it shouldn't have put some of those patches on triage
• [12:44] Soft Linden: Huh. Dunno what dpatch is!
• [12:44] Soft Linden: diff patch?
• [12:44] Niaht Nakamichi: gigs: dpatch is a patch system, if I'm reading correctly.. I know it is extensively used in debian
• [12:44] Gigs Taggart: oh
• [12:44] Gigs Taggart: never heard of it :P
• [12:44] Bridie Linden: SVC-1569[c
• [12:44] Alexa Linden: hmmmm
• [12:44] Gigs Taggart: resolve needs more info :P
• [12:45] Harleen Gretzky: Maybe give one to Andrew
• [12:45] Bridie Linden: I think that may be a known issue...
• [12:45] Gigs Taggart: This is probably related to impulse being weaker
• [12:45] Harleen Gretzky: ah
• [12:45] Gigs Taggart: but hard to say without more info
• [12:45] Bridie Linden: but more info on where this is happening, etc is needed
• [12:45] Soft Linden: Possibly. It's worth a look though - The Starax wand is well-known and loved among Lindens :)
• [12:45] Soft Linden: I know Tofu's got one he could demonstrate with, at the least
• [12:46] Harleen Gretzky: Kind of hard to get more info thogh since Starax is no longer in SL
• [12:46] Gigs Taggart: cool
• [12:46] Alexa Linden: he is
• [12:46] Gigs Taggart: Starax is indeed in SL
• [12:46] Alexa Linden: as a new entity ^^
• [12:46] Harleen Gretzky: Rumors of Light Wave I know
• [12:46] Soft Linden: Could send this to QA or the Havok team with a note that Tofu's got the wand :)
• [12:46] Alexa Linden: yes
• [12:46] Alexa Linden: LOL
• [12:46] Bridie Linden: Next
• [12:46] Bridie Linden: # VWR-3615[c
• [12:46] Gigs Taggart: this has got to be a dupe
• [12:47] Alexa Linden: lol
• [12:47] Alexa Linden: totally
• [12:47] Gigs Taggart: it's been a common problem for many months
• [12:47] Electron Electricteeth: it's still a mess though
• [12:47] Electron Electricteeth: and the linux client is especially buggy atm
• [12:47] Gigs Taggart: Displaying issues 1 to 50 of 1904 matching issues.
• [12:47] Bridie Linden: Ramzi created a meta issue for login issues w/1.19.1 https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-5564
• [12:47] Gigs Taggart: crash on login gets 1900 search results hah
• [12:48] Squirrel Wood: Its (almost) over 9000!
• [12:48] Bridie Linden: let's link it there (5564) for now
• [12:48] Alexa Linden: ok
• [12:48] Bridie Linden: Next
• [12:48] Bridie Linden: WEB-330[c
• [12:48] Gigs Taggart:  :)
• [12:49] Gigs Taggart: The LL website is currently unmaintained right?
• [12:49] Gigs Taggart: Not much point in importing this sort of bug.
• [12:49] Soft Linden: Hey, Ego :)
• [12:49] Ego Essex: Hi, Soft :)
• [12:49] Bridie Linden: Let's move on
• [12:49] Bridie Linden: VWR-2916[c
• [12:50] Electron Electricteeth: who even uses that resolution nowadays, even for a window size o.O
• [12:50] Bridie Linden: What happens in 1.19.1 RC?
• [12:50] Soft Linden: Anyone want to size their window down and check?
• [12:50] Electron Electricteeth: omg
• [12:51] Alexa Linden: I won't be able to read :P
• [12:51] Squirrel Wood: Some people do have really bad eyesight which requires them to use ultra low resolutions on big screens
• [12:51] Electron Electricteeth: i has a bug i just found lol
• [12:51] Soft Linden: I'll launch 1.19.1 current on my debug machine and check in the background here
• [12:51] Electron Electricteeth: i'll submit it tonight
• [12:51] Bridie Linden: I think it's been fixed
• [12:51] Soft Linden: Well, a comment says there was a partial fix
• [12:51] Electron Electricteeth: But resizing crashes the SL Linux client on my end
• [12:51] Soft Linden: Though from the date it would have been in RC0
• [12:52] Bridie Linden: that was in 1.19.0
• [12:52] Gigs Taggart: heh I just crashed reproing VWR-2916
• [12:52] Gigs Taggart: it's definitely an issue in 1.19.0
• [12:52] Soft Linden: It's fixed in 1.19.1 in our current code base
• [12:52] Gigs Taggart: cool
• [12:53] Soft Linden: Can be marked fix-pending for Branch_1-19-1-Viewer
• [12:53] Alexa Linden: noted
• [12:53] Bridie Linden: Next
• [12:53] Electron Electricteeth: the fact that THAT crash just happened, proves it. lol
• [12:53] Bridie Linden: MISC-987[c
• [12:54] Gigs Taggart: yeah
• [12:54] Gigs Taggart: 987 seems related to the whole "can't properly put someone into a new role" bug
• [12:54] Gigs Taggart: where the UI disabled wrongly
• [12:55] Gigs Taggart: no version noted on 987
• [12:55] Bridie Linden: Looks like a 1.19.0 viewer I think...
• [12:55] Alexa Linden: I can ask the question to the reporter
• [12:55] Bridie Linden: was that an old bug you're thinking of Gigs?
• [12:56] Gigs Taggart: bridie not too old, like 1.19.0
• [12:56] Gigs Taggart: but I do think it's fixed now in newer code
• [12:56] Bridie Linden: Let's see if we can find the issue and link 'em Alexa
• [12:56] Soft Linden: This should be super quick to test. ONe sec...
• [12:56] Harleen Gretzky: When it was RC though, I think it was fixed, could be wrong though
• [12:56] Bridie Linden: It rings a bell...
• [12:56] Soft Linden: Oh, so you did see the bug previously, Harleen?
• [12:56] Gigs Taggart: yeah I thinkl it was fixed during the RC process, the unable to add someone to a role one
• [12:57] Harleen Gretzky: It is not happening for me in 1.19.1
• [12:57] Gigs Taggart: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-4547
• [12:57] Bridie Linden: Cool
• [12:57] Gigs Taggart: 4547 fixed was the similar one
• [12:57] Ego Essex: Can i ask a qestion about a web issue?
• [12:57] Soft Linden: If we don't know where the fix happened, can't repro would be a good resolution.
• [12:57] Alexa Linden: I can ask the reporter to DL the latest version and try
• [12:57] Gigs Taggart: ego sure
• [12:57] Ego Essex: I wanted to know the status of WEB-104 ?
• [12:58] Soft Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/web-104
• [12:58] Gigs Taggart: hmm
• [12:58] Bridie Linden: looks
• [12:58] Gigs Taggart: Like I said earlier, it's better to consider the web site unmaintained.
• [12:58] Gigs Taggart: Then you won't get your hopes up :P
• [12:58] Ego Essex: Its been a year almost so , Yeah.
• [12:59] Soft Linden: Looking at the internal issue, I don't even recognize the Linden it's assigned to...?
• [12:59] Bridie Linden:  :(
• [12:59] Ego Essex: But that's not really asufficient answer , I think.
• [12:59] Gigs Taggart: heh soft
• [12:59] Alexa Linden: this is an issue though
• [12:59] Soft Linden: https://jira.lindenlab.com/browse/DEV-4361
• [12:59] Bridie Linden: Let's (re) ping the web team
• [12:59] Gigs Taggart: you have a whole team of web people???
• [12:59] Soft Linden: Without this, people with multiple stores have to use extra hacks to tell which store locations are more profitable. Hard for business owners to figure out what approaches/locations are working well.
• [12:59] Alexa Linden: I talked to a lot of vendor for the RFL and this issue meant they had to rename all products they sold there to be able to track sales
• [12:59] Bridie Linden: Ugh
• [12:59] Ego Essex: Yes
• [13:00] Bridie Linden: Well, that brings us to 1:00pm everyone...
• [13:00] Alexa Linden: we spent 3 hours renaming things for people
• [13:00] Soft Linden: Bridie, do you recognize the assigned Linden? Or should that go back to triage maybe?
• [13:00] Bridie Linden: I recognize the name, I'll follow up
• [13:00] Gigs Taggart: as an aside you might want to encourage the web team to have a triage or meeting or SOMETHING
• [13:00] Bridie Linden: Thx for everyone's help today!
• [13:00] Soft Linden: That's not a bad idea, Gigs. Maybe not weekly, but once or twice a month.
• [13:00] Gigs Taggart: because I pretty much never see any action on WEB bugs that aren't jira or wiki
• [13:01] Soft Linden: Right, and those go through different people than the main site.