User:Qie Niangao/Jack Linden Office Hour Transcript/2009-09-17
Driftwood Miles: Yes, and called, and another ticket and contacted you
Talarus Luan: Hiyas Qie
Driftwood Miles: LOL Ciaran
Qie Niangao: Hiya, Talarus, everybody
Jack Linden: Driftwood, I've fired a quickl email and asked the Search team. Will get them to respond via your tickets
Driftwood Miles: thanks Jack :)
Timo Daehlie: Jack some meetings ago i asked you if you guys would start a media campaign or something simular in order to pull new members into the game. You gave me a vague answers about secret plans and such. Is there anything more you can tell about it or is it so secret that it will totally change the world ?
Enemy Coba: good afternoon evryone
Alexxa Despres: Hi
Jack Linden: Dennis, we're going a bit uber on that one. I think it'll be well worth the wait.. basically we're working on a set of land related metrics. I don't have details but we are actively working on it now
Jack Linden: We absolutely agree that data is very important.
Enemy Coba: a new campaign is needed
Enemy Coba: fast
Jack Linden: Timo, I wish I had stuff I could throw out to you but sadly I don't. All I can tell you is that we obviously take that seriously and have many plans to drive higher uptake
Charity Colville: I want to commend you on finally seeing some results in regards to the bots issue Jack, but there is still a rather serious exploit. There are clubs, malls, and other venues in Second Life that are loading up with "model bots" to skirt around the bot issue because Linden Labs said that model bots were allowed.
NikoKito Aries: true
Timo Daehlie: so if i ask this question next month i get the same answer ?
Dennis Lagan: ok. thanx. but the communication needs improvement. its already bad if you have to push back something for 5 months, not speaking about it makes things only worse. make a blog post and give us some sneak peaks to make us smile again.
Timo Daehlie: It would be good if you guys be more transparant to us .. maybe we have positive input as well or can make some efforts
Timo Daehlie: vague answers dont bring back trust .,.
Dytska Vieria: input is going out with the forums...
Jack Linden: Charity, you're totally right. We're close now to releasing a way to self identify an account as being a bot. We will then expect Model Bot owners to use that. If they choose to not identify their Models as Bots, or move them to parcels not listed in Search, then we'll consider that to be gaming serarch
Jack Linden: *search
Storyof Oh: this year is has been one piece of bad news after another
Melchizedek Blauvelt: What's stopping you from making pub yourself Timo?
Timo Daehlie: i do Melchi
Charity Colville: If it isn't soon Jack then a limit needs to be set
Enemy Coba: agree
Equinox Pinion: when will that new land sales tool be up were private regions also can post ?
Yohan Pintens: you guys seem to solve problems in the absolutely most backwards way possible
Talarus Luan: The "Tao of Linden" :D
Jack Linden: Timo, Dennis.. it can be tricky timing those sorts of things. In the past we have been given feedback that we left it too late, and sometimes if things are not fully formed people get frustrated if we talk too early. But as soon as we have concrete stuff to show we will
Jack Linden: Equinox, do you mean estates posting Land auctions?
Equinox Pinion: yes
Equinox Pinion: we talked about it months ago
Jack Linden: Right now it's looking like first half of 2010 as we have some more significant stuff to push out ahead of that
Jack Linden: We definitely want to do it
Equinox Pinion: ok thanks
Random Person: what type of significant stuff?
Equinox Pinion: your read my mind random lol
Jack Linden: Random Person, you have a truly great avatar name
Random Person: thanks Jack
Dennis Lagan: i also think that you should come with voluntary tools for estate and parcel owners to control script time better. this would reduce the stress on your systems in a positive way, rather then this "we will force this and that at some point". nearly all estate owners want their sims running smooth, this is important for our image towards our residents, we are nearly all having rules in place and are enforcing them. we would be happy to set up similar rules for script time use in our covenants if we could check and limit it , in contradiction to the mainland where you simply allow anything.
Dytska Vieria: What is to look forward of this significant stuff?
Driftwood Miles: a brand new website?
Sierra Janus: "Null Address" is better :P
Driftwood Miles: oh wait
Equinox Pinion: lol
Timo Daehlie: we need more land
Alexxa Despres: LOL :-P
Alexxa Despres: <<is laughing
Jack Linden: You must hate hearing this.. but I can't talk about the stuff that is coming up in Q4 and new year, suffice to say that there have been some big items for the devs to push on ahead of resident auctions
Talarus Luan: We do? More land to drive the mainland price sub-L$1? :P
Jack Linden: But we totally want to do resident auctions
Ciaran Laval: What's the deal with these themed mainland and private regions that are coming soon?
Equinox Pinion: phew...hope it is not something like the phone service :)
Talarus Luan: It's the rest of the migration to the Flog/Blorum. ;)
Driftwood Miles: lol
Random Person: that is most likely land marketing on behalf of them to appeal to customers who cannot build 3D artwork*
Jack Linden: Dennis, yep.. script resource tools are coming. We're not sure which server deploy with carry it but we'll fairly soon be providing ways to see how much script resource is being used - then we'l be providing tools to manage that
Equinox Pinion: you already can get themed private regions
Qie Niangao: Equinox: it's *exactly* like the phone service. Voice only. No more of this text chat, and the pesky graphics stuff.
Jack Linden: We had to do some tricky code work in the simulators to track script use such that it didn't itself impact performance.
Equinox Pinion: that is really good news jack...it is so hard to check scripts at the moment
Dennis Lagan: will it be possible to check this per parcel? thats the most important in a shared environement
Charity Colville: Do you mean the ability to limit the amount of scripts one avatar can operate on your sim?
Jack Linden: Kram, my office hours tend to be fairly freeform
Marianne McCann: Has there been any further movement on dev regarding the Infohub issues, esp. at Hau Koda? Is the "stop gap" still in the works, or just moving streat to fixing the allotment code?
Equinox Pinion: script time charity
Jack Linden: Dennis, yes it will be per parcel
Equinox Pinion: one script can use as much as 1000
Dennis Lagan: ok.
Jack Linden: And also let you see your avatars script cost
Random Person: I think it would also be wise to have an Avatar Rendering Cost limit for a sim, if needed to be used for events that need many avatars
Ciaran Laval: Mari Blondin mention something about the issues at Hau Koda being fixed soon
Enemy Coba: thats better
Random Person: aset by owner
Random Person: set*
Jack Linden: Marianne, we are just going to fix the issues themselves. Not sure when that will make it out though
Talarus Luan: Unfortunately, ARC is a viewer-side calculation atm
Random Person: oh i see
Marianne McCann: Okay. Any "ballpark" or idea that I can pass onto the Docklands folks?
Jack Linden: i would zap the sign but there is a dragon roosting on it
Jack Linden: sorry for the confusion Kram
Talarus Luan: -.-
Enemy Coba: lol
Talarus Luan: I have wings, ya know.
Equinox Pinion: lol
Alexxa Despres: just change auto-return , Jack ;-P
Jack Linden: there we go
Jack Linden: no dragons hurt
Talarus Luan: Uhh OK
Talarus Luan: I'll stand vs becoming merged with your nice faux hardwood floor. :P
Dennis Lagan: will there be an LSL back end provided to check the script time as well, or only client side?
Stickman Ingmann: I hear merging with faux hardwood is rather pleasant.
Jack Linden: Marianne, i don't have even a ballpark or other sporting stadium. Soon as I know I'll mention it here thouhg
Jack Linden: *though
Driftwood Miles: lol
Talarus Luan: Only for the person swinging the tree trunk. :)
Stickman Ingmann: As long as you don't need your legs or anything.
Marianne McCann: Well you know, the LDPW could make you a ballpark...
Marianne McCann giggles
Random Person: can there be such a thing as a SRC, sim rendering cost?
NikoKito Aries: nice idea
Jack Linden: Dennis, not sure yet Dennis, though it would be nice to show Script resource whilst you're working in the script editor
Jack Linden: Maybe after compile
Dennis Lagan: ok
Techwolf Lupindo: The sim renders nothing. Only physics and LSL and "presence".
Stickman Ingmann: Various types of "rendering cost" have been requested. There's a Jira up for "object rendering cost" as well. Brought up at Nyx' office hours.
Jack Linden wonders at the idea of virtual hardwood being 'not faux'
Random Person: as in, the cost it would take to load the prims and textures in an entire sim
Marianne McCann: As real as you want it to be
Driftwood Miles: faux fuax hardwood
Stickman Ingmann: Jack, redundancy is important.
Equinox Pinion: isnt that done localy on your client random?
Jack Linden: object rendering cost would be very nice to have
Random Person: well i was thinking a more user friendly format for even new players to get down with, so they can understand lag concept
Ardy Lay: I measure my own objects by picking them up with the ARC display active. Crude but satisfying.
Yohan Pintens: New players? Where at?\
Talarus Luan: That could add a bit of load to the sim to calculate all the time, unless it was rather simple. But, being rather simple, it might not be very good as a measure.
Qie Niangao: sic Gwyneth on them. By the time she's done, they'll deny having ever mentioned "lag"
Talarus Luan: Hehe
Enemy Coba: the traditional stills the best
Random Person: well it should be a feature that is able to turn off when not in use
Stickman Ingmann: Random, that enters another realm. Efficient content creation rules. Sometimes you need high quality stuff, but still want it to be efficient. "Rendering cost" is an arbitrary number that's unique for every viewer's settings, and even the current LOD.
Techwolf Lupindo: Object ARC can be done client side.
Dytska Vieria: Want to solve the lag problem? Get rid of the Sion Chickens ;)
Random Person: oh ok
Enemy Coba: lol
Dennis Lagan: LOL
Marianne McCann giggles
Driftwood Miles: or the pending wabbits
Techwolf Lupindo: But unfortually, ARC is very IMpreciece.
Jack Linden: wabbits?
Random Person: wabbits lol
Talarus Luan loves chickens.. just requires a lot of them to be anything more than appetizers.
Marianne McCann: Dytska - SL needs a chair of KFCs
Driftwood Miles: Yes the chickens will soon make way for bonking breeding rabbits
Charity Colville: waskelly wabbits
Dennis Lagan: yes, this thinfs are terrible. i would almost add an entry to the covenant which disalows the use of scripts created by SION Labs.
Alexxa Despres: I hear all the rabbits are being classed as AC...you KNOW how rabbits are!!!!
Dennis Lagan: ¨*things
NikoKito Aries: ^_o
Dytska Vieria: Had a neighbor with a 512sqm and 20 of them, physics time was 5.0ms
Charity Colville: eeek
Jack Linden: I thought the v12 chickens were a lot better
Talarus Luan: Not that I have seen
Dennis Lagan: better, but stil lterrible
Alexxa Despres: that's what the notecard says ;-P
CharleneTrudeau Lorefield: the collision rates alone are killer
Enemy Coba: some of them are causing a massive lag
Equinox Pinion: they are...but you cannot have 20 on a 512sm plot lol
CharleneTrudeau Lorefield: forget the scripts
Talarus Luan: Collisions are still collisions, no matter the scripting
Dytska Vieria: They had their own estate land and rented MAINLAND to raise the things.
Enemy Coba: need to improve the sculpt tools
Stickman Ingmann remembers the avatar rating system, where you could label people as a bad builder.
Enemy Coba: better then scripts
CharleneTrudeau Lorefield: I had to curtail a resident's breeding and that's what she did too
Driftwood Miles: with a prim bonus of 600% uou can Equinox ;)
Talarus Luan: Well, yah, they didn't want to trash THEIR expensive estate for them. <.<
Jack Linden: Stickman.. showing your age there!
CharleneTrudeau Lorefield: she simply added some mainland holdings and moved them there
Stickman Ingmann: Enemy, mesh tools are better than sculpt tools.
Charity Colville: haha I remember that too Stick
Dennis Lagan: and the plants that grow and create the chicken food are at least as bad. he seem to have the great ability to push a script in every kind of use to its limits.
Jack Linden: Yeah, did you guys see the Mesh stuff at T's SLCC keynote?
Marianne McCann: yups
Jack Linden: Very (very) cool.
Enemy Coba: hi have to try it
Dytska Vieria can't wait for script limits by parcel size
Talarus Luan: Saw some screenies with the Hulk on them
Driftwood Miles: yes the Marvel Comics tm Hulk ;) :P
Marianne McCann: ™©
Driftwood Miles: thanks Marianne :)
Talarus Luan: Yeah, I don't think it was a licensed mesh. :P
Stickman Ingmann: With mesh coming out "soon" (sometime over 6 months) I expect sculpts to get much less love. It makes them obsolete -- though I'm certain LL will continue to maintain them to the point of functionality.
Melchizedek Blauvelt: From what I read about meshes it'll be a revolutionary improvement
Dennis Lagan: if there would be script limits per parcel size they would also need to take the region object bonus in count, and limit this for the total sim use then too, just like it works for prims.
Storyof Oh: yes but what about split land with script concentrated on one area then parkland...
Techwolf Lupindo: THat was a nice demo for creaters that complain about thieft. Looks like LL does thift too. :-)
Dennis Lagan: or eventually make a "Script time bonus"
Enemy Coba: if is to improve its going to make it better
Driftwood Miles: Hulk v Chickens
Talarus Luan: Well, sculpts can still serve a purpose. They are still a small mesh
Marianne McCann: Yes, I suspect that too, Stickmann
Jack Linden: There may still be a valid place for sculpties.. as they are low vertices and for simple stuff they work well
Driftwood Miles: whoever wins meets the wabbits in the final
Stickman Ingmann: Sculpties are 2048 tris at max LOD. If your item only calls for for a shape with rounded edges, and could be done in 20 tris, well... doo bad. You NEED to be inefficient. Until meshes.
Ciaran Laval: Themed mainland Jack? What's the deal there and are you planning on having a separate search system for it as the blurb says to remember to include objects for sale to be included
Alexxa Despres: LOL Drift :-P
Talarus Luan: If Qarl gets around to putting in texture animation for the sculpt texture, you can still do some neat things that you won't be able to do with a mesh
Stickman Ingmann stops pulling the topic down the river.
Stickman Ingmann: Sorry.
Jack Linden: Ciaran.. we're going to be talking a lot more about zoned Mainland actually. It's been so popular and we get asked about it a lot
Marianne McCann: Would be nice ot see Bay City get the rest of it's regions
Jack Linden: But we're also sensitive to not wanting to compete with estates, so we're going to be opening up some feedback sessions on zoning
Techwolf Lupindo: Jack, that a strange comment considering LL have screwed over estates owners in the past.
Equinox Pinion: you mentioned at the USS meeting you will release a document how private estates can join in that project...when will that be released?
Dennis Lagan: maybe just because of that reason he is saying that now Techwolf -lol-
Marianne McCann: Gotta scoot - have fun, all!
Ciaran Laval: I'm talking about this Jack: https://land.secondlife.com/en-US/developed-property.php?lang=en
Talarus Luan: Ciao Mari
Jack Linden: It's pretty much done Equinox. it's not specific to Blake Sea.. it's some guidance about how communities can work with us on projects
Marianne McCann: Back to the Playa!
Marianne McCann: Bye Bye!!
Enemy Coba: bye marianne
Equinox Pinion: ok thanks
Charity Colville: *Next meeting I am gonna bring some football padding for Jack*
Dennis Lagan: and i do think that mainland replacing estates would be bad, what estate owners bring as support to their residents would not be done anymore at all. (lindenlab can not handle this).
Talarus Luan: Nah... he takes punishment well in the flesh.
Dennis Lagan: -ofcourse not all, there are bad ones too-
Jack Linden: that specific page is more about both zoned Mainland and also residents selling 'Land with Content'
Ciaran Laval: Yeah Jack, that's why I was asking about search as it says to include objects for sale so you get included
Jack Linden: because we want to start recognising the difference between buying anempty field (undeveloped land) and buying a castle (developed property)
Enemy Coba: true...
Charity Colville: or a business?
Dennis Lagan: i noticed that page, but the "residents selling land with content" wil lbe a bit misleading. no transfer items can be removed whenever the previous owner likes, and even an empty parcel can be listed, as long as you enable "include objects in sales"
Jack Linden: yeah Ciaran.. so the plan will be to start pulling Land listings into that page if they are 'developed'
Thriller Dancer: Say 'on' or 'off'to turn me on or off, or 'help' for more commands
Equinox Pinion: think you have to be carefull what you do in the themed mainland jack...you might really hurt some private estate owners including the big ones
Jack Linden: The marketplace team will be talking more about that over time i'm sure
Ciaran Laval: Cheers Jack
Driftwood Miles: There is a bias in favour of Mainland and it is getting more pronounced. A website that makes it nigh on impossible to navigate to find estate land but that on evey turn promotes mainland. A borked search, more themed mainland. Estates need more support Jack
Talarus Luan: Well, themed mainland can't really compete with the more directly-managed private estates.
Talarus Luan: It is -still- mainland
Talarus Luan: Just "pretty" mainland
Jack Linden: Dennis, we'll be able to check prim counts etc potentially and deal with people deliberately misusing it
Equinox Pinion: agree driftwood
Equinox Pinion: you cannot find the estate listings at xstreet anymore
Equinox Pinion: not sure if they did it on purpose :)
Driftwood Miles: they have gone completely
Qie Niangao can't find anything at xstreet anymore
Jack Linden: Driftwood, we have plans there too. We're going to be bringing in some incentive schemes for estates
Stickman Ingmann: Haha, Qie.
Timo Daehlie: tier is income Kram .. they rather give free land
Jack Linden: We talked alittle about that before but it should start to happen in Q4
Equinox Pinion: can you not change that property sales listing on xstreet jack...it really hurts private estates
Jack Linden: Kram, we haven't any plans to change that right now though we are starting to put a lot of thought into building more value into the premium membership with features and perks
Jack Linden: expect more on that later in the year
Driftwood Miles: Hopefully the incentives will be inclusive for all estates and not just for the favoured few :)
Jack Linden: Okay guys, I'm out of time i'm afraid
Jack Linden: Hope today was helpful
Ciaran Laval: Thanks Jack
NikoKito Aries: buenas noches Jack
NikoKito Aries: (es->en) Jack goodnight
Equinox Pinion: take care jack!
Driftwood Miles: Thanks Jack, have a good wek
Dennis Lagan: i also think the "teleport" function for a listed parcel is bad to find now. the word "teleport" doesn't appear anymore, bad for newer residents/ less technically skilled
Storyof Oh: thanks Jack byeee
Brandon Shinobu: Jack, we sent our email to you.
Enemy Coba: see you next week jack
Uni Ninetails: ty Jack
Jack Linden: cheers brandon
NikoKito Aries: thanks very much Jack
Brandon Shinobu: We may send you a second, but the first one contains the mot
Alexxa Despres: Thanks jack ;)
Brandon Shinobu: Thank you for the help Jack
Qie Niangao: thanks Jack.
Brandon Shinobu: I really appreciate it.
Charity Colville: Thank you Jack
Jack Linden: take care all, have a great week!