User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2009 12 22

Transcript

[11:00]	Welcome to	Linden office hours
[11:00]	Bronson Blackadder:	hiya simon?
[11:00]	Thriller Dancer:	Say 'on' or 'off'to turn me on or off, or 'help' for more commands
[11:00]	Johan Laurasia:	Yo Simon
[11:00]	Ardy Lay:	Heeeer's Simon!
[11:00]	Bronson Blackadder:	why did I add a question mark?
[11:01]	Melchizedek Blauvelt:	must-not-type-on
[11:01]	Simon Linden:	Hello
[11:01]	Johan Laurasia:	Hiya Simon
[11:01]	Melchizedek Blauvelt:	Hi Simon
[11:02]	Simon Linden:	Slow day today at work ... lots of folks off on vacation :)
[11:02]	Johan Laurasia:	yeah, that time of year
[11:02]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Oh, so this is on? :p
[11:02]	Bronson Blackadder:	hiya andrew :)
[11:02]	Andrew Linden:	hello
[11:02]	Ardy Lay:	Hi Andrew
[11:02]	Johan Laurasia:	Hey Andrew
[11:03]	Andrew Linden:	First thing I should mention is that I won't be able to make it to office hours on Thursday.
[11:04]	Bronson Blackadder:	lol
[11:04]	Bronson Blackadder:	WHAT??????
[11:04]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	That hour would be Christmas morning to me. ;)
[11:04]	Melchizedek Blauvelt:	no office hour on Xmas eve?
[11:04]	Melchizedek Blauvelt:	not very hardcore tbh ;)
[11:04]	Bronson Blackadder:	O
[11:04]	Andrew Linden:	So, there won't be any office hours on Christmas Eve (or Christmas Morning).
[11:04]	Bronson Blackadder:	M
[11:04]	Bronson Blackadder:	G
[11:04]	Andrew Linden:	I'm assuming that Simon won't be able to make it either.
[11:05]	Andrew Linden:	(Feel free to contradict me here Simon ;-)
[11:05]	Simon Linden:	Sounds right to me ... I won't be able to make it
[11:05]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Quite amazing to pull 20 FPS here due to so few people. ;)
[11:05]	Andrew Linden:	Further, I'm planning on taking the days between Christmas and New Years off.
[11:06]	Andrew Linden:	So I won't be in next Tuesday or Thursday.
[11:06]	Andrew Linden:	How about you Simon?
[11:06]	Simon Linden:	I'll be here Tuesday next week
[11:06]	Andrew Linden:	Ok cool.
[11:06]	Simon Linden:	Thursday I'm also taking as vacation, so we can cancel that one too. That's late on the 31st
[11:07]	Andrew Linden:	I'll try to remember to repeat those cancellations at the end of this hour.
[11:07]	Andrew Linden:	Other stuff... what I've been working on:
[11:07]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	I would leave a prim up stating them if you can - they did that at bug triage on Monday.
[11:08]	Andrew Linden:	I've got three or four projects that I'm helping people with, mostly to do with simulator maintenance.
[11:08]	Andrew Linden:	Most of it is not very intersting here -- internal changes.
[11:09]	Andrew Linden:	We've got some crufty logging systems and we're overhauling them to use a new pipeline that involves RabbitMQ
[11:09]	Andrew Linden:	and I've been helping with that.
[11:09]	Andrew Linden:	i've got some old maint-server branches that need to go to QA, or are coming back from QA and need to be merged
[11:10]	Andrew Linden:	and I've been working on some internal tools that I can't talk about
[11:10]	Johan Laurasia:	super secret stuff
[11:10]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Heh.
[11:11]	Johan Laurasia	drops some sodium pentathol into Andrew's drink when he's not lookin'
[11:11]	Andrew Linden:	oh yeah, and I've been helping with a Havok7 project --
[11:11]	Johan Laurasia:	woot
[11:11]	Andrew Linden:	er... been promising to help but haven't been able to fit it in yet
[11:11]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Is Havok7 going to be providing more features or mostly just for performance/stability?
[11:11]	Andrew Linden:	I'm guessing we'll have Havok7 done by end of Jan. However no, no new features.
[11:12]	Andrew Linden:	Along with it we will probably have a few small performance enhancements in the simulator
[11:12]	Andrew Linden:	but nothing too amazing -- cleanup and better integration with the physics engine
[11:13]	Andrew Linden:	nevertheless, Falcon Linden has some ideas on how to make things faster and will be working on some of those ideas
[11:13]	Andrew Linden:	also, Falcon independently came up with the "programmable keyframed objects" feature that I've kicked around these office hours in the past
[11:14]	Andrew Linden:	and he and I were discussing how we might be able to get that done
[11:14]	Andrew Linden:	The idea being: allow static objects (non-physical) to move in smooth ways
[11:14]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	That'll be neat.
[11:14]	Andrew Linden:	such as sliding doors, or rotating platforms, etc
[11:15]	Johan Laurasia:	that would be killer
[11:15]	Andrew Linden:	I think that's all the news I've got.
[11:15]	Johan Laurasia:	I think smooth non physical movement would go over big
[11:15]	Andrew Linden:	While the keyframed objects feature would be accessible via the LSL interface, we were wondering if it would be possible to somehow open it up without scripts.
[11:16]	Andrew Linden:	one idea I had was this: if a correctly configured (and named) notecard were put into an object then it would interpret it as a set of keyframed instructions and start moving
[11:17]	Andrew Linden:	but that's all I've got on the API -- a vague notion of dropping a notecard.
[11:17]	Aperture Door	V 1.09: Unlock
[11:17]	Andrew Linden:	It would at least give people access without needing new LSL resources
[11:17]	Johan Laurasia:	that's an idea.. or perhaps a client window with some sort of curve editor, similar to Blender's IPO curve editor perhaps.
[11:17]	Andrew Linden:	for simple stuff
[11:18]	Johan Laurasia:	in the editor window
[11:18]	Simon Linden:	Right, I can imagine a simple set of instrutions in a notecard to move the object around
[11:18]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	A window with a "rotate" tick box, speed and direction would be nice.
[11:18]	Andrew Linden:	yeah, an in-world curve editor that saves to "wherever the keyframe animation live"
[11:18]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	For very simple rotation that is.
[11:18]	Johan Laurasia:	maybe in the prim itself, like particles, set text perhaps?
[11:18]	Andrew Linden:	One way the feature could be used would be to make a door that opens and closes smoothly
[11:19]	Johan Laurasia:	I already have that :)
[11:19]	Andrew Linden:	however, to respond to touch events you'd need a script
[11:19]	Andrew Linden:	or some other fancy handling
[11:19]	Ardy Lay:	Hehe, without using llTargetOmega() and timer tricks. :-)
[11:19]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Urgh, TargetOmega...
[11:19]	Andrew Linden:	well... these doors would actually move open, pushing any movable obstacles aside
[11:19]	Andrew Linden:	that is, these sliding objects would push movable objects
[11:20]	Andrew Linden:	and carry movable objects that are on top
[11:20]	Ardy Lay:	That would be a big improvement, Andrew.
[11:20]	Andrew Linden:	also, you could make movable platforms that you could hop onto, etc
[11:20]	Ardy Lay:	Figure out how to make a railroad car that follows tracks or something. :-)
[11:20]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Nice.
[11:20]	Andrew Linden:	Johan, does that use llSetRot() to move? or something else?
[11:21]	Johan Laurasia:	llTargetOmega
[11:21]	Andrew Linden:	is it "static" or "dynamci" (physics off or on?)
[11:21]	Ardy Lay:	static
[11:21]	Ardy Lay:	I do that too.
[11:21]	Door Demo	V 1.09 Two sided wardrobe: DoubleLock
[11:22]	Door Demo	V 1.09 Two sided wardrobe: Unlock
[11:22]	Andrew Linden:	well, static objects with llTargetOmega() don't actually move
[11:22]	Andrew Linden:	they just appear to rotate
[11:22]	Johan Laurasia:	yeah, its client side
[11:22]	Johan Laurasia:	but it works
[11:22]	Ardy Lay:	Yes, there is a llRot() at the end of the timer that stopps the llTargetOmega()
[11:22]	Johan Laurasia:	there's the script, I didnt write it
[11:23]	Andrew Linden:	Ah I see. It moves slowly and uses a timer to figure out when it is nearly there.
[11:23]	Andrew Linden:	Then slams position.
[11:23]	Johan Laurasia:	yeah
[11:23]	Andrew Linden:	Looks smooth, and it actually moves at the very end.
[11:23]	Johan Laurasia:	yep, cool cheat actually
[11:23]	Ardy Lay:	Works fine unless the simulator gets a timing disruption of the client disables Velocity Interpolation.
[11:24]	Johan Laurasia:	necessity is the mother of inventoion in SL
[11:24]	Andrew Linden:	cool, but I was sorta wondering how to make keyframed objects respond to click or other triggers without LSL scripts.
[11:24]	Johan Laurasia:	invention*
[11:24]	Ardy Lay:	But, yes, these are work-arounds of a sort.
[11:24]	Andrew Linden:	right
[11:24]	Johan Laurasia:	like a built in door function is what you're getting at
[11:25]	Johan Laurasia:	that would help with script limits
[11:25]	Ardy Lay:	Doors, hinges maybe?
[11:25]	Johan Laurasia:	doors that dont need a script
[11:25]	Questar Utu:	Joints would be nice.
[11:25]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, a simple way to configure an object to have simple way behaviors could be triggered.
[11:25]	Johan Laurasia:	yeah, I've been beggin' for jointed prims
[11:25]	Johan Laurasia:	seein' as it's already in Havok
[11:25]	Andrew Linden:	More general than doors, but doors would be a subset.
[11:25]	Ardy Lay:	That would be awesome.
[11:25]	Johan Laurasia:	jointed prims = hinged doors and wheels that reeally rotate
[11:26]	Andrew Linden:	joints are possible, but will be a lot of work
[11:26]	Andrew Linden:	Falcon and I talked about that too -- we agreed to revisit it later in 2010.
[11:26]	Questar Utu:	And rather exploitable. But for what they're worth, they are very useful to any builder.
[11:27]	Johan Laurasia:	cool
[11:27]	Johan Laurasia:	well, they had it patched in on opensim
[11:27]	Johan Laurasia:	you defined the link via the object desc
[11:27]	Johan Laurasia:	I had some cars rolling around
[11:28]	Andrew Linden:	I'd prefer to define the joint as part of the "link" -- the multiple parts of the jointed thing should be part of the same "object"
[11:28]	Johan Laurasia:	they had some rag doll examples too
[11:28]	Johan Laurasia:	agreed
[11:28]	Andrew Linden:	that would be required in order to make if fit well with our simulator C++ code.
[11:29]	Ardy Lay:	I worry about some content breakage when physics changes come up. Some people use the physics for unpredicted stuff: SVC-2433
[11:29]	Zephyr Chimes	v1.1 does not work correctly on Havok4 simulators.
[11:29]	Johan Laurasia:	the 'link' was difficult to maintain, the 'wheels came off' quite literally, very easily
[11:29]	Ardy Lay:	I love the idea of an enhanced simulation but there is always stuff that gets left behind.
[11:29]	Andrew Linden:	oy, I killed joints just prior to Havok4 -- we used to have some joints a long time agho
[11:30]	Johan Laurasia:	really, must have been b4 my time (2k6)
[11:30]	Johan Laurasia:	late 2k6
[11:30]	office hours	is half over
[11:30]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	I don't recall those either.
[11:30]	Andrew Linden:	yeah, first we made it impossible to make new ones, but old jointed objects could still be rezzed
[11:30]	Andrew Linden:	then right before Havok4 the old jointed objects stopped even rezzing correctly
[11:31]	Questar Utu:	I remember there being a preview video for havok 4 just before it came out that was advertising chains or something.
[11:31]	Andrew Linden:	the joints were just too hard on the physics engine
[11:31]	Andrew Linden:	and we haven't had time yet to re-implement them in Havok4
[11:31]	Johan Laurasia:	maybe something to save for 7 then
[11:31]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Well, everyone seems to just break havok4 anyway. :P
[11:31]	Questar Utu:	People break anything..
[11:31]	Andrew Linden:	I think the chains were regular interlocked prims... the were working better in Havok4 than Havok1
[11:31]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Such as the 10x10x10 prim falling into a tiny hole in the ground bug.
[11:32]	Questar Utu:	Then you have people like Arb, who TRY to break things. <_<
[11:32]	Andrew Linden:	however... today if you load the physics engine hard enough the chains will still fall apart
[11:32]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Seen that a lot.
[11:32]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	people making chains that stay going for quite a while.
[11:32]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	It's usually sim spikes that cause them to break.
[11:32]	Andrew Linden:	right
[11:32]	Johan Laurasia:	I've seen some odd physics stuff lately
[11:32]	Andrew Linden:	such as?
[11:33]	Johan Laurasia:	physical objects appear to drife off in different directions, then disappear and 'pop' back to where they were
[11:33]	Questar Utu:	That's sim lag.
[11:33]	Johan Laurasia:	happens when there's alot of physical objects
[11:33]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Isn't that just the ping interpolation of the viewer when the sim stops responding?
[11:33]	Questar Utu:	Yep.
[11:33]	Andrew Linden:	that is probably not the "phsyics engine" as it is our "interest list" code
[11:33]	Andrew Linden:	rubber banding
[11:33]	Johan Laurasia:	yeah, looks like ping interpolation
[11:33]	Johan Laurasia:	yeah
[11:34]	Andrew Linden:	yeah, basically ping interpolation, perhaps aggravated by packet loss
[11:34]	Johan Laurasia:	only seems to happen with alot of physical objects though
[11:34]	Johan Laurasia:	I've been playing around alot with physical objects
[11:34]	Questar Utu:	Because physics hurts sims. :p
[11:34]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Physics are probably stuttering from it. :P
[11:34]	Andrew Linden:	oh hrm... could be pure simualtor overload -- capping outgoing packets, or just lag
[11:34]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi	can imagine the sim going "URRGH!"
[11:34]	Andrew Linden:	(fps lag)
[11:34]	Simon Linden:	The viewer is pretty dumb about that ... I think it will stop AV interpolation if you hit the space bar,but it really lets stuff fly off into the sunset if the updates stop coming
[11:35]	Andrew Linden:	(simualtor fps lag_)
[11:35]	Ardy Lay:	I suspect that sometimes the client either doesn't get or doesn't process all object updates.
[11:35]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Hehe Simon - yeah, it's really silly at times.
[11:35]	Johan Laurasia:	yeah, hardware needs to catch up when it comes to physics
[11:35]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Suddenly things just go flying out of the sim entirely.
[11:35]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Then snap back into place.
[11:35]	Johan Laurasia:	physics is a heavy load
[11:35]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	That makes me wonder - how are flexis calculate on the viewer?
[11:36]	Bronson Blackadder:	yeah go to any sandbox and that is commonplace
[11:36]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	calculated*
[11:36]	Bronson Blackadder:	the snapback
[11:36]	Questar Utu:	Imagine a juggler. And the physical prims are the objects being juggled. Now think, if you have a lot of them, it's going to be hard to perform.
[11:36]	Andrew Linden:	The flexi code is, unfortunately, a mess.
[11:36]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	I think most of us already knew that. xP
[11:36]	Questar Utu:	Has it even been updated since it was implimented? 0.o
[11:37]	Andrew Linden:	Flexies look cool, but the feature was written by a "hacker artist" -- he had a lot of vision and knew what looked cool
[11:38]	Andrew Linden:	however he didn't know how to abstract out the physics and make the simulation resistant to changes in FPS
[11:38]	Johan Laurasia:	well, considering it's done on the fly... I think it's done well, sure, it could be improved, but there's no prebaking of the physics of it
[11:38]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Ah yeah - flexies turn really slow and horrible when my frame rate drops, and when it's high, the flexies just go insane.
[11:38]	Andrew Linden:	so instead of clean code a bunch of hacks were added to stabilize the simulation for large timesteps
[11:39]	Andrew Linden:	right Sahkolihaa, that is a consequence of how the flexi code was written
[11:39]	Andrew Linden:	anyway, it does some simple "spring" type calculations, with lots of hackery
[11:39]	Johan Laurasia:	lol
[11:40]	Johan Laurasia:	why can't flexis be set physical short of being worn?
[11:40]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Cause a lot more stress on the sim no doubt.
[11:40]	Andrew Linden:	I usually describe that kind of stuff as "game physics". It is how a lot of games used to be written -- a very approximate and fast model that looks real enough that people accept it as physics
[11:40]	Bronson Blackadder:	hack artists..... sounds like chainsaw wood carvers
[11:40]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	The main reason games are trying to shift physics to GPGPU.
[11:40]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Or rather
[11:40]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Have done.
[11:40]	Andrew Linden:	these days many games use truer physics engines, so the term "game physics" doesn't apply.
[11:41]	Johan Laurasia:	the hardware needs to catch up to people's needs.
[11:41]	Andrew Linden:	Right, for flexi's to be done on the simulator it would require more calculations, and more importantly lots of "update" packets
[11:42]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	And enough physics can choke me anyway - I can only get about 800k down from the sim.
[11:42]	Andrew Linden:	The only way to control the update packets would be to have correct inerplolation on the viewer -- which implies a complete rewrite of the flexi simulation anyway.
[11:43]	Johan Laurasia:	well, for now though, they suffice for hair, clothing and such
[11:43]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, the allow some really cool content.
[11:43]	Andrew Linden:	if I had unlimited money, time, and resources I'd do the following:
[11:43]	Bronson Blackadder:	lol
[11:43]	Andrew Linden:	(1) Get the artist hacker back at Linden Lab
[11:44]	Bronson Blackadder:	quit sl
[11:44]	Bronson Blackadder:	lol
[11:44]	Andrew Linden:	(2) Give him a team of physicist coders to do his bidding
[11:44]	Andrew Linden:	(3) Tell them all to rewrite the flexi code
[11:44]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Heh.
[11:45]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm.. maybe that isn't even the best way to do it.
[11:45]	Johan Laurasia:	I've been spending time at BGSU's sim, and alot of the people there explore the physics capabilities of SL, and wish for better physics.
[11:45]	Andrew Linden:	Havok has cloth simulation. So maybe it would be best to just incorporate that into the SL client.
[11:45]	Johan Laurasia:	no doubt
[11:45]	Spurs Seattle:	Everyone wants better physics....but I have to admit they are far better then they used to be, especially for flying
[11:45]	Andrew Linden:	BGSU?
[11:46]	Andrew Linden:	Spurs, flying avatars? or flying vehicles?
[11:46]	Johan Laurasia:	Sorry, I'm from Ohio... forgot, Bowling Green State U.
[11:46]	Spurs Seattle:	Flying vehicles, Andrew...avatars have never really been a problem
[11:46]	Bronson Blackadder:	hiya rex
[11:46]	Johan Laurasia:	they have like 4 sims, one has a sandbox, and alot of physics profs and students do physics simulations sthere
[11:46]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Hm, if you meant putting Havok into the viewer for cloth simulation, I don't think that's really possible.
[11:46]	Rex Cronon:	hi bronson
[11:46]	Rex Cronon:	hi everybody
[11:47]	Johan Laurasia:	Hey rex
[11:47]	Rex Cronon:	i forgot about today's oh:(
[11:47]	Rex Cronon:	hi johan
[11:47]
[11:47]	Andrew Linden:	Actually Sahkolihaa several Linden devs have been pondering how to put physics into the SL client. They don't think it is impossible.
[11:47]	Questar Utu:	Flying actually is since havok 4. You start to sink for no apparent reason after flying and then hovering still.
[11:47]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Well, it'll be difficult due to the viewer being open source.
[11:47]	Andrew Linden:	I think maybe it is impossible given our limited resources.
[11:47]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Then you've got to support OS X and Linux with it.
[11:48]	Andrew Linden:	Oh, Havok works on all platforms.
[11:48]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Heh - would be even neater to have it run on the GPU as well.
[11:48]	Andrew Linden:	Havok supports farming physics work onto the GPU.
[11:49]	Spurs Seattle:	I think if I could change something, it would be to make region tranfers cleaner, then the physics wouldnt be as much of an issue....for vehicle travel at any rate. Ive never understood why SL wasnt set into larger regions then sims.
[11:49]	Andrew Linden:	yeah, region crossings need work.
[11:49]	Andrew Linden:	Definitely higher on the list of things to do than client physics or jointed objects.
[11:50]	Johan Laurasia:	yeah, idk, I was crossing regions the other day, and didnt seem to have an issue, were there any fixes in 1.34.1?
[11:50]	Questar Utu:	I remember a time when they used to work great.. Could actually drive something through sims with absolutely no problem..
[11:50]	Johan Laurasia:	region crossing fixes?
[11:50]	Spurs Seattle:	They are better, but what confuses me is when I go into an MMO, for instance Warcraft, and region crossings are seamless. I dont have the technical knwoledge to understand why it cant be like that here...which is kinda why I showed up today lol
[11:51]	Andrew Linden:	No region crossing fixes in server-1.34.1 that I know of.
[11:51]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Well those games have constant connections between servers if I remember correctly.
[11:51]	Simon Linden:	There's actually a viewer bug with region crossings that's been fixed in Snowglobe but not in the old 1.23 viewers
[11:51]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	SL's system is much different I think - Andrew/Simon can explain that. :p
[11:51]	Rex Cronon:	i have a little question about llsetdamage...
[11:51]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	There is?
[11:51]	Simon Linden:	So if you switched viewers, that might be it
[11:51]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi	is on Snowglobe 1.3.0
[11:51]	Arawn Spitteler	babbles somethin incohrent about SVC-22 and SVC-93, not to mention SVC-2931 and Sheep: Did Morgaine file the Jira, yet?
[11:51]	llSetLinkPrimitiveParams content	breakage, only moves agents 54 meters now
[11:51]	Vehicles crossing	region borders aren't always treated as vehicles and can get incorrectly returned if the destination parcel is no-entry or parcel-full
[11:51]	ROTATION and	llSetRot incorrectly implemented for child prims
[11:52]	Andrew Linden:	SVC -22 -- a region crossing bug
[11:52]	Spurs Seattle:	I get nervous using the different viewers, I just started using Emerald a month or so ago
[11:52]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Snowglobe is an official one, so don't worry about that.
[11:52]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	It's checked by LL.
[11:52]	Spurs Seattle:	Hello, btw Simon, its been a while, since H4 Beta
[11:52]	Spurs Seattle	nods
[11:52]	Spurs Seattle:	I will check it out, if I can find the drive space
[11:53]	Questar Utu:	I call Emerald bloatware, as it tries to impliment every little cool feature it can find, whether it works properly, or is resource hoggish or not. :p
[11:53]	Simon Linden:	Hello -- yes, it's been a long time
[11:53]	Spurs Seattle:	Well...it runs ok for me, I have a decent machine
[11:53]	Johan Laurasia:	yeah, like the texture previewer...
[11:53]	Andrew Linden:	I'm not sure how WOW does region crossings, however they have undoubtedly solved most of their bugs there. We've still got bugs in region crossings.
[11:53]	Spurs Seattle:	Yes, andrew
[11:53]	Andrew Linden:	One of the problems is how we stream attachments between regions
[11:53]	Rex Cronon:	why when using llsetdage doesn't the damage become a property of the object, like what happens with particles?
[11:53]	Spurs Seattle:	My question has always been, is it even possible to make them seamless?
[11:53]	Questar Utu:	Probably not so much a drain on your machine as the sim itself, requesting information about other avatars and such.
[11:53]	Andrew Linden:	if you wear no attachments you should have easier region crossings
[11:53]	Arawn Spitteler	wonders if this might presage a viewer crossing bug: For racing builds, is it possible to link Null Sims in blocks of four, or desireable?
[11:54]	Andrew Linden:	(and if you don't ride vehicles)
[11:54]	Johan Laurasia:	the texture previewer is nice, but it's got to be hard on the asset servers, LL would have to incorp some sort of thumbnail to make that viable
[11:54]	Spurs Seattle	nods
[11:54]	Andrew Linden:	Arawn, by link you mean make them one region? or to put them on the same host?
[11:54]	Rex Cronon:	right now if u want an bullet to give damage u need to have a script that does it:(
[11:54]	Spurs Seattle:	Thats what I wonder, Arawn, is if the regions could be made larger, say 20 sims in a block instead of one...
[11:54]	Andrew Linden:	Spurs, it is possible to make region crossings seamless. It will take a lot of work.
[11:55]	Melchizedek Blauvelt:	WoW region crossings get you to a l"loading" page Andrew
[11:55]	Arawn Spitteler:	If each region got double coverage, then crossings might be easier. Blocksof four nbullsims would make it a shorter trip, across each boundar
[11:55]	office hours	is almost over
[11:55]	Simon Linden:	We've brainstormed larger sims before ... would really be nice, but is a lot of work
[11:55]	Andrew Linden:	oh really? Melchizedek? Ok I guess they don't have seamless crossings. But they've got larger regions.
[11:55]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Well, they don't have physics to calculate in there.
[11:56]	Johan Laurasia:	well, if region crossings were worked out, sims size would be moot
[11:56]	Questar Utu:	Much larger regions - For the little time I played it I did notice it was larger areas, but it did have 'region crossing' places.
[11:56]	Spurs Seattle:	True johan. But for now I would be happier if I wasnt at an edge every 20 seconds
[11:56]	Andrew Linden:	I'd rather fix region crossings to be more seamless first. Then maybe pursue larger regions.
[11:56]	Spurs Seattle	nods
[11:56]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	I know some games do seamless ones but I think it uses a lot of bandwidth.
[11:56]	Melchizedek Blauvelt:	they do, but you can't build, create clothes or anything in those regions - just follow the path that's been laid out for you
[11:56]	Johan Laurasia:	the 20 sec delay is more of a script issue though isn't it?
[11:56]	Spurs Seattle:	Good point mel
[11:57]	Andrew Linden:	20 sec delay?
[11:57]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	More scripts drastically add sim crossing time.
[11:57]	Arawn Spitteler:	If you haven't physics, and the system can see you mean to cross, it's probably easier to handle
[11:57]	Johan Laurasia:	when some ppl cross regions they lag for 20 seconds or so
[11:57]	Andrew Linden:	Rex, what was your damage question?
[11:57]	Spurs Seattle:	I always do, when flying
[11:57]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	But as far as I'm aware, scripts need to be saved and stopped before crossing?
[11:58]	Rex Cronon:	can damage be a property of the object like particles are?
[11:58]	Questar Utu	will be back in a moment.
[11:58]	Arawn Spitteler:	Do the receiving sims have to receive each script?
[11:58]	Johan Laurasia:	idk about stopped, but handed from sim to sim
[11:58]	Andrew Linden:	Oh that 20 sec delay is a "blocking simulator" problem -- extreme load as it tries to load and rez all the attachments that come with the individual.
[11:58]	Simon Linden:	Right ... Babbage has tracked some of the script/region crossing delays down to an internal mono issue ... LSL is probably better for attachments and vehicles that will cross regions a lot
[11:58]	Andrew Linden:	Babbage Linden is working on that performance problem.
[11:58]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	All my scripts are LSL, thankfully.
[11:59]	Rex Cronon:	right now if u want your bullets to do damage u need to use a script each time u rezz a bullet. that adds lag if lots of bullets are rezzed:(
[11:59]	Johan Laurasia:	right, so residents can work on lightening their personal load to help with that.
[11:59]	Andrew Linden:	Can damage be a property like particles? Rex could you elaborate on that?
[11:59]	Johan Laurasia:	bullets dont need to be scripted to cause damage if you use the built in damage
[11:59]	Arawn Spitteler:	Isn't Damage a property? state_exit isn't caled, when the prims vanish
[11:59]	Johan Laurasia:	but no one uses that, they use the scripted ones
[12:00]	Andrew Linden:	Babbage Linden is also working on some new LSL calls that will enable people to do as much with fewer scripts. Which could help.
[12:00]	Thank you	for coming to Linden office hours
[12:00]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Nice.
[12:00]	Rex Cronon:	when u call llset particles, even if u remove the script particles r being still evitted
[12:00]	Johan Laurasia:	jeez this office hr just flies
[12:00]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Hehe.
[12:00]	Andrew Linden:	so Rex, you want damage feature without LSL script?
[12:00]	Spurs Seattle:	Thanks for your time, and answers all
[12:00]	Johan Laurasia:	LL already has that though Andrew
[12:00]	Andrew Linden:	some sort of "automatically inflict X damage on impact with avatar"?
[12:00]	Rex Cronon:	use lsl toset value once
[12:00]	Arawn Spitteler:	What is the natural, as opposed to script set Damage?
[12:01]	Spurs Seattle:	Does Babbage hold office hours? I cant seem to find it in the wiki
[12:01]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Natural depends on the speed of the prim.
[12:01]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Well
[12:01]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	How hard it collides.
[12:01]	Johan Laurasia:	yeah, he does, on the beta grid sometimes, on the main others
[12:01]	Spurs Seattle:	Ah there it is nvm
[12:01]	Arawn Spitteler:	3AM tommorrow, as I recall
[12:01]	Andrew Linden:	thanks for coming everyone. I'll have to run very soon to another meeting
[12:01]	Rex Cronon:	speed deosnt affect dmage
[12:01]	Andrew Linden:	hrm... rex that might be possible to do
[12:01]	Johan Laurasia:	thanks Andew & Simon, Merry Christmas too
[12:01]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Andrew and Simon, I hope you both enjoy your holiday. :)
[12:01]	Simon Linden:	Thanks everyone for coming
[12:01]	Rex Cronon:	tc andrew and happy holidays
[12:01]	Andrew Linden:	I need to think about it some more
[12:02]	Simon Linden:	Have a great holidays ... see you next week Tuesday.
[12:02]	Simon Linden:	Reminder : No office hours this Thursday
[12:02]	Rex Cronon:	happy holidays to eerybody:)
[12:02]	Rex Cronon:	tc simon and happy holidays
[12:02]	Andrew Linden:	the damage could be inflicted in the collision callback, if any damage points exist on the object
[12:02]	Spurs Seattle:	tc, happy hols
[12:02]	Andrew Linden:	Rex, raise that idea again in a later meeting.
[12:02]	Rex Cronon:	ok andrew
[12:02]	Melchizedek Blauvelt:	Merry Christmas Andrew and Simon
[12:02]	Andrew Linden:	BTW, no office hours this Thursday.
[12:02]	Andrew Linden:	Simon will be here next Tuesday.
[12:03]	Johan Laurasia:	Hey Rex, damage can be incurred w/o scripted bullets, the thing is no one uses the built in damage in SL
[12:03]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Simon did what I suggested and left a prim out.
[12:03]	Rex Cronon:	ok
[12:03]	Arawn Spitteler:	Next Tuesday, last of year?
[12:03]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	Yup.
[12:03]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi:	That'll be the last of 2009. :)
[12:03]	Rex Cronon:	really hohan?
[12:03]	Andrew Linden:	But no office hours on the 31st either.
[12:03]	Andrew Linden:	I won't be around for office hours until Jan.

Generated with SLog Wikifier