User:Benjamin Linden/Office Hours/2008-05-22

Transcript of Benjamin Linden's office hours:

[15:07]	Tegg Bode:	Hmm was strange first 3 times I tried RC7 it
	crashed on login, so I thought it was a failure, I very rarely ever
	crash and have been able to run all RC previous, but after I rebooted
	computer it works fine
[15:07]	Malbers Linden:	A Ha! RC7 strikes!
[15:08]	McCabe Maxsted:	wb
[15:08]	Malbers Linden:	but i did get a nice demo of the new Ruth as all of you
	were rezzing for me.
[15:08]	Squirrel Wood:	What is it with all these people stalking me? :p
[15:08]	Simon Kline:	hehe i got dns errors whien it first started but
	then i'd click connect and it would be ok
[15:08]	Squirrel Wood:	Malbers, so you too were waiting for the SL
	client to quit smoking? :p
[15:08]	Caitlyn Clawtooth:	Malbers: how does the new ruth look?
[15:08]	IM: McCabe Maxsted: pst. Want to try a new skin? First
	button's free, but the rest will cost ya
[15:08]	Jessica Kabumpo:	I use OpenDNS. No DNS errors. <3
[15:09]	Caitlyn Clawtooth:	do kid avs still look like balding ??? teenagers?
[15:09]	McCabe Maxsted:	heh would be nice if they told you about
	flushing dns etc in the actual error
[15:09]	Malbers Linden:	Caitlyn, it's kinda a green cloud or particles
[15:10]	Tegg Bode:	It's probably the purple hair Squirell :)
[15:10]	Malbers Linden:	there were a lot of bugs/concerns about the old Ruth
[15:10]	Caitlyn Clawtooth:	Malbers: neat!
[15:10]	Simon Kline:	ruth provided such a laff at times
[15:11]	Malbers Linden:	A number of cultures found it disconcerting that people
	started as naked old women.
[15:11]	Squirrel Wood:	the new ruth does not look at all when you
	have particles off :p
[15:11]	Jacek Antonelli:	Hey Kippie :)
[15:11]	Simon Kline:	tho not everyone saw it like tht hehe
[15:11]	Kippie Friedkin:	hello all :)
[15:11]	Tegg Bode:	Yes we will need the box on the head thing back
	for comedy relief :)
[15:11]	Kippie Friedkin:	hey malbers, jacek! :)
[15:11]	Malbers Linden:	yo kippie
[15:11]	Squirrel Wood:	A number of cultures will always fid something
	not to their liking because of some religious or political beliefs.
[15:11]	Malbers Linden:	Philip was wearing a box on his head at a recent meeting
	for comic effect
[15:11]	Auto-Teleport-Memory 3.0b (WEAR ME!) whispers:
	transfer'O'tronic free memory: 9701
[15:12]	Simon Kline:	hehe
[15:12]	Tegg Bode:	Ooooo cloudy
[15:12]	McCabe Maxsted:	bah crashtastic
[15:12]	Jacek Antonelli:	I like the new ruthcloud :D
[15:13]	Squirrel Wood:	Why can't scripts use llOwnerSay for
	information such as Auto-Teleport-Memory 3.0b (WEAR ME!) whispers:
	transfer'O'tronic free memory: 9701 ?
[15:13]	Kippie Friedkin:	ditto
[15:13]	Jacek Antonelli:	Is purty
[15:13]	McCabe Maxsted:	got me
[15:13]	IM: Kippie Friedkin: Just hangin' today. I'm hooked on these ??? meetings. :)
[15:13]	McCabe Maxsted:	dumb scriptor; I like it because it keeps a
	handy long list
[15:13]	Squirrel Wood:	^^
[15:13]	IM: Kippie Friedkin: Are Stephany and Ben not comin today?
[15:14]	Malbers Linden:	alright all. I kinda suck since I don't have a specific
	topic today
[15:14]	Malbers Linden:	anything burning a hole in people's brains?
[15:14]	Squirrel Wood:	Benjamin late or no show today?
[15:14]	Malbers Linden:	Hard to say for Ben
[15:14]	IM: Kippie Friedkin: Gotcha. Seems like a common occurence :)
[15:14]	Malbers Linden:	I know he was planning on it but he's had all sorts of
	meetings today
[15:14]	JayR Cela:	oh i just came here 2 say that Dazzle is finally
	starting to look pretty decent to me
[15:15]	Malbers Linden:	JayR -- any specific changes we made make it better for ??? you?
[15:15]	JayR Cela:	no brick throwing please :_)
[15:15]	Jacek Antonelli:	I'm starting to not mind Dazzle so much
	either. Maybe my eye muscles are getting beefed up from all the
	strain ;)
[15:15]	JayR Cela:	well / I liked it from the start / to be honest
	with you .......... but .......
[15:16]	Tegg Bode:	Yes I got used to dazzle ok, I can't read strreet
	signs in RL anymore but now dazzle looks fine :)
[15:16]	JayR Cela:	sometimes certain windows were transparent .......
[15:16]	Kippie Friedkin:	lol
[15:16]	JayR Cela:	that was a problem for me while building
[15:16]	JayR Cela:	also it was allways a bit to bright ......
[15:16]	Malbers Linden:	Are most of you using old Viewers or customs skins for ??? Dazzle?
[15:16]	Squirrel Wood:	rc7 no mods
[15:17]	JayR Cela:	seems to have been toneded down a bit / and is
	much easier on the eyes now
[15:17]	Jacek Antonelli:	Right now I'm using Dazzle on my own
	compiled RC5
[15:17]	Jessica Kabumpo doesn't know where to get moar SL skins or
	how to install them.
[15:17]	Tegg Bode:	I'm on the dazzle normal skin, I would like it a
	tad duller , skinable will be good when it comes in.
[15:17]	Caitlyn Clawtooth:	nicholaz
[15:17]	Simon Kline:	u on windows jacek or linux?
[15:17]	JayR Cela:	also the texture picker seems to work much better ??? now
[15:17]	Jacek Antonelli:	Simon: Linux
[15:17]	Malbers Linden:	anyone have the Dazzle skin page handy?
[15:17]	JayR Cela:	i use both Linux and Windows
[15:18]	Jacek Antonelli:	There was an interesting article on
	Massively about Dazzle yesterday: http://www.massively.com/2008/05/22/dazzle-the-slippery-eye/
[15:18]	McCabe Maxsted gave you dazzle mini skin_001.
[15:18]	McCabe Maxsted gave you dazzle mini skin_002.
[15:18]	JayR Cela:	i think you could really make a lot of folks happy
	by adding a very simple / toggle switch upon login.....
[15:18]	Malbers Linden thanks McCabe
[15:19]	JayR Cela:	your choice of old skin or new dazzle skin
[15:19]	JayR Cela:	shure would stop a lot of complaining
[15:19]	Jacek Antonelli:	hehe it would, JayR
[15:19]	JayR Cela:	I mean think about it this way ..........
[15:20]	JayR Cela:	I am a long time Win-Amp user
[15:20]	Malbers Linden:	Yes, providing two skins seems to be what many people ??? suggest
[15:20]	McCabe Maxsted:	you mean https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Category:Skinning ???  ?
[15:20]	JayR Cela:	for years I stuck with the old skin
[15:20]	JayR Cela:	but I allways had my choice to use the classic
	skin or the new skin......
[15:20]	Kippie Friedkin:	I like the icons much better in Dazzle. Much
	more consistent
[15:20]	McCabe Maxsted:	you can download the old skin for dazzle if
	you want, JayR. Although it's a bit weird going back to it after you
	get used to dazzle
[15:21]	JayR Cela:	eventually I started to use the new skin every now
	and then.....
[15:21]	JayR Cela:	eventually I decided I saw the benefits of the
	newer design......
[15:21]	Jacek Antonelli:	I was thinking, regarding having to maintain
	two different skins. Last week Benjamin mentioned problems of coming
	up with artwork for both skins as an example. What if you had a dark
	variant of Dazzle? It wouldn't be that hard to make two versions of
	the same artwork, with a color adjust
[15:21]	Tegg Bode:	Interesting article, yes I don't notice IM's
	anymore unless they flash when I am actually looking at the IM/Local
	Chat windows
[15:21]	JayR Cela:	but I was never forced to switch.......
[15:21]	JayR Cela:	untill I was ready............
[15:21]	Kooky Jetaime:	Roflol
[15:21]	JayR Cela:	same with WIndows XP.........
[15:21]	Jessica Kabumpo:	I have an interface suggestion, now that
	there's icons.
[15:22]	Kooky Jetaime:	nw thats saying something for planning
[15:22]	Kooky Jetaime:	hahhe
[15:22]	McCabe Maxsted:	what's your suggestion jessica?
[15:22]	Tegg Bode:	The Icons do look cool
[15:22]	JayR Cela:	I still use the old Windows classic style /
	because I hate the Win XP interface
[15:22]	McCabe Maxsted:	*cough* fisherprice *cough*
[15:22]	JayR Cela:	ok I said my piece
[15:22]	Jessica Kabumpo:	move teh dual-toolbars at the bottom into a
	single toolbar
[15:22]	JayR Cela:	I'm done now
[15:22]	McCabe Maxsted:	hahahaha
[15:22]	Malbers Linden:	allg ood feedback, JayR
[15:22]	McCabe Maxsted:	I just sent malbers a pic of my attempt to do
	just that
[15:22]	JayR Cela:	@Malbers / thank you :_)
[15:22]	McCabe Maxsted:	want to try it out?
[15:23]	McCabe Maxsted:	it's so much nicer
[15:23]	Kippie Friedkin:	McCabe...do you have a pic anywhere we can
	all see?
[15:23]	Jessica Kabumpo:	so you'd have the icons on the buttons, the
	chat bar, and the volume bars all on a single toolbar rather than
	having two rows of toolbars
[15:23]	McCabe Maxsted:	sure, lemme upload to flickr
[15:23]	McCabe Maxsted:	one sec
[15:23]	Malbers Linden:	Yes, that Skinning page McCabe sent out describes how
	you can change the Look
[15:23]	Kippie Friedkin:	cool
[15:23]	Jacek Antonelli:	What are the dual toolbars? The
	Communicate / Fly etc. is one... is the chatbar / audio the other?
[15:23]	Jessica Kabumpo:	dual toolbars being all the button at the
	bottom, plus the chat bar and volume controls
[15:24]	Jacek Antonelli:	ok
[15:24]	Tegg Bode:	I hate fly missing from the movement window
[15:24]	Jessica Kabumpo:	I can Gimp it for you if that'd help
[15:24]	McCabe Maxsted:	the viewer uses two toolbars: one for the
	main toolbar, that's panel_toolbar.xml, and the other for all the rest
	of the junk, that's panel_overlaybar.xml. That latter is further
	divited into the chat bar, buttons like stand up, and voice and media ??? controls
[15:24]	McCabe Maxsted:	each with its own xml file
[15:25]	Malbers Linden notices how cool it is that this meeting is
	self-organizing. You guys all kick ass.
[15:25]	McCabe Maxsted:	:)
[15:25]	Jacek Antonelli:	hehe
[15:25]	Squirrel Wood:	We have experience with office hours. :p
[15:25]	McCabe Maxsted:	the fly button is still in the movement
	controls by the way, just commented out
[15:26]	Jacek Antonelli:	Interesting
[15:26]	Squirrel Wood:	both, freeform ones as well as tightly
	regulated ones :p
[15:26]	McCabe Maxsted:	go to floater_moveview.xml I believe and undo
	the comment
[15:26]	Malbers Linden:	do many of you use the movement (or camera) control ??? windows?
[15:26]	McCabe Maxsted is waiting for files to upload
[15:26]	Squirrel Wood:	movement/camera control window: Nope.
[15:26]	Harleen Gretzky:	/mw never does
[15:26]	Jacek Antonelli:	Nah, I very rarely use them
[15:26]	McCabe Maxsted:	use camera controls constantly
[15:26]	Squirrel Wood:	they are good for beginners but that's about it
[15:26]	Jacek Antonelli:	Only the camera controls if I'm camming
	around in the sky and there's nothing close enough to alt-click on
[15:26]	Tegg Bode:	Yes I use them all the time, mainly because
	there's no Jump/Crouch butons
[15:27]	Harleen Gretzky:	I use alt-zoom instead
[15:27]	Jacek Antonelli:	But I bet they're quite useful for new users
[15:27]	Jessica Kabumpo:	I use my SN for all movement (av/cam)
[15:27]	Squirrel Wood:	space navigator. flycam mode.
[15:27]	Malbers Linden:	we have been going back-and-forth about turnign those on
	by default for new residents
[15:27]	McCabe Maxsted:	I got into the habit before I learned about
	the shortcuts, hehe
[15:27]	Harleen Gretzky:	Page Up and Down for Jump/Crouch
[15:27]	Squirrel Wood:	jump: E crouch: C
[15:27]	Squirrel Wood:	or pgup/dn
[15:28]	Jacek Antonelli:	I think it's a good idea to have them turned
	on for new residents. As long as they'll remember that they're turned
	off for oldbies like me who don't need them :)
[15:28]	Tegg Bode:	I have SN too but It doen't jump, just flys
[15:28]	Malbers Linden:	it does seem that using the keyboard/mouse combo is much
	more fluid once you learn it
[15:28]	Jessica Kabumpo:	pull up for jump/fly, push down for land/ ??? crouch
[15:28]	McCabe Maxsted:	http://www.flickr.com/photos/mccabemaxsted/2514989824/
[15:28]	Jessica Kabumpo:	the SN can jump, but you have to release it
	VERY QUICKLY
[15:28]	McCabe Maxsted:	http://www.flickr.com/photos/mccabemaxsted/2514161993/
[15:28]	Jessica Kabumpo:	or you fly
[15:28]	Jacek Antonelli is jealous of all the people who can use
	their SpaceNavigators in SL ;_; Want linux support plz!
[15:28]	Jessica Kabumpo:	MacCabe - almost what I was thinking
[15:29]	Caitlyn Clawtooth:	nice and clean! (although you can drop
	'release keys' :) )
[15:29]	Jessica Kabumpo:	except I was thinking of having all the
	buttons where you put the Comm button, but only as icons rather than
	full width and text
[15:29]	McCabe Maxsted:	the only buttons I'd consider adding are for
	build and inv
[15:29]	McCabe Maxsted:	oh that was my first attempt hehe
[15:29]	McCabe Maxsted:	I built it, but it felt too crowded
[15:29]	McCabe Maxsted:	andI kept hitting the wrong button
[15:29]	Jessica Kabumpo:	ohs
[15:29]	Malbers Linden:	so, more grey than blue -- is that a fair description?
[15:29]	Tegg Bode:	Oh cool, just worked out how to get jump/croiuch,
	every time I tried before I would just get chat typing :)
[15:30]	Kippie Friedkin:	That's a great looking skin, McCabe
[15:30]	McCabe Maxsted:	thanks kippie
[15:30]	Jacek Antonelli:	Ahh, I see, it's different than just turning
	off the toolbar
[15:30]	Jessica Kabumpo:	so if you give me the files you modded to
	make it like that ..... I put them somewhere in ~/Library/Application\
	Support/SecondLife/ ??
[15:31]	McCabe Maxsted:	you put htem in secondlifereleasecandidate
	\skins\xui\your language folder
[15:31]	McCabe Maxsted:	I can send you them though; what's your email?
[15:31]	Jessica Kabumpo:	you mean in /Applications/Second\ Life\
	Release\ Candidate
[15:31]	Kippie Friedkin:	Hmm..I might have to try that too
[15:31]	Jessica Kabumpo:	but then they'd be wiped every time I update
[15:31]	McCabe Maxsted:	well wherever the second life install folder is
[15:31]	McCabe Maxsted:	yeah, that's the sucky thing about skinning
	right now
[15:31]	Caitlyn Clawtooth:	hmmm ..... noticed an interesting visual
	quirk in your flickr pics .... on my screen I am not in the couch
[15:32]	Tegg Bode:	Hmm that would be cool if SN could be set to jump,
	or fly on a longer hold. I can't get muine fast enough to jump
[15:32]	McCabe Maxsted:	I just use a different channel for the RC
[15:32]	Malbers Linden:	yeah, skinning is not for the feint of heart right now
[15:32]	Jacek Antonelli:	Oh, I have a question for people who aren't
	using Dazzle right now -- on the toolbar, which button is further
	right: Mini-Map, or Map?
[15:32]	McCabe Maxsted:	and no update prompt :)
[15:32]	McCabe Maxsted:	inventory
[15:32]	McCabe Maxsted:	oh
[15:32]	Jacek Antonelli:	Hehe, of those two :)
[15:32]	Jessica Kabumpo:	(feature request - put UI mods in ~/Library/
	Application\ Support/SecondLife/Interface)
[15:32]	McCabe Maxsted:	it was switched from 1.19.1.4; minimap is
	farther, I believe
[15:32]	Caitlyn Clawtooth:	map in 1.19 nicholaz
[15:33]	Jacek Antonelli:	Okay. Because I noticed in Dazzle that I
	kept expecting the Map button to be where the Mini-Map button is now
[15:33]	Jacek Antonelli:	And I wondered if I was crazy
[15:33]	McCabe Maxsted:	haha no, they switched 'em around
[15:33]	Jacek Antonelli:	Dang Lindens, always switchin stuff around!
	*shakes fist, winks at Malbers*
[15:33]	Tegg Bode:	Really all the movement stuff & Inventory on the
	right and communication on the left suits me more
[15:33]	Malbers Linden tries to become more transparent than usual
[15:34]	McCabe Maxsted:	hehehe
[15:34]	Jacek Antonelli:	hehehe
[15:34]	Jacek Antonelli:	Oh, Malbers -- clicking on names in the chat
	window in RC7 to bring up the profile is really neat. Did one of the
	Rx Lindens think that up?
[15:34]	McCabe Maxsted:	that was an open source patch
[15:34]	Jacek Antonelli:	Ahhh
[15:35]	Tegg Bode:	It's a cool idea
[15:35]	Jessica Kabumpo:	I likes it.
[15:35]	Jacek Antonelli:	Yeah, really handy for group chat
[15:35]	Malbers Linden:	Yeah, its acool addition
[15:35]	McCabe Maxsted:	yeah, especially in mentors; should make it
	easier to take chat to IM
[15:35]	Tegg Bode:	I just need a n Add to group option somehow to
	expand that further
[15:35]	Jacek Antonelli:	exactly, McCabe :)
[15:35]	Harleen Gretzky:	It could be done before using the
	participant list (<<)
[15:35]	Kooky Jetaime:	Now that names are hotlinked, making a right
	click pie menu is an easy step
[15:36]	Kooky Jetaime:	Invite, Mute, Profile, Ban, Eject, etc
[15:36]	Jessica Kabumpo:	that's weird .... my symbols don't appear on
	McCabe's display
[15:36]	Tegg Bode:	ohh that would be good too, so you could interact
	with names of people that weren't in sight
[15:36]	McCabe Maxsted:	maybe I don't have the font installed?
[15:37]	Jacek Antonelli wonders if she should have known that a
	useful and universally-loved change would come from a user. :)
[15:37]	McCabe Maxsted:	speaking of reforms to the IM window, the
	teleport button included has been fix pending for many many months now
[15:37]	Malbers Linden:	Anyone know if there's a PJira for Chat 2.0?
[15:37]	McCabe Maxsted:	hehehehe
[15:37]	Tegg Bode:	Good to eject a fast bouncing griefer
[15:37]	Jessica Kabumpo:	does SL have its own font, or does it use a
	system font?
[15:37]	Harleen Gretzky:	what's chat 2.0?
[15:38]	Saijanai Kuhn:	each OS has its own collection of fots it uses
	to show non-ASCII text.
[15:38]	McCabe Maxsted:	it uses a system font
[15:38]	Jessica Kabumpo:	ah, okay
[15:38]	Malbers Linden:	internally, we have a number of bugs as collection
	points for features in obvious buckets (like Chat or Map)
[15:38]	McCabe Maxsted:	you can change it in the debug settings though
[15:38]	Jessica Kabumpo:	that explains why unicode never shows up for
	Windows peeps
[15:38]	Saijanai Kuhn:	there are 4 fonts SL uses: 3 sizes for
	proportional text and one monospaced font, then it augments the
	proportional with system fonts
[15:39]	McCabe Maxsted:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-6560 if
	anyone wants to vote to make it easier ;)
[15:39]	Tegg Bode:	Damn no unicode for Winows users? We want unicode!
	Umm or do whe what's unicode?
[15:39]	Jacek Antonelli:	Malbers: There's a meta-issue http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1076
	("Usability suggestions for the new voice/chat Communicate window")
[15:40]	JayR Cela:	lol :_)
[15:40]	Saijanai Kuhn:	you need to have the specific fonts they
	assume will be available for international text
[15:40]	Malbers Linden:	ah! Perfect.
[15:40]	McCabe Maxsted:	so what exactly is chat 2.0 then?
[15:41]	Saijanai Kuhn:	I wrote a patch for that ages ago. Its pretty
	trivial actually
[15:41]	Malbers Linden:	"Chat 2.0" is just a generic name for "stuff we should
	do to make communicating better someday"
[15:41]	Jessica Kabumpo:	McCabe - you missed one thing in that FR.
	"My chat color"
[15:41]	Malbers Linden:	but it is useful to have all these ideas in one spot
[15:41]	McCabe Maxsted:	for my issue, sai? Could you upload it?
[15:41]	Tegg Bode:	Yep and can chat 1.0 people still understand Chat
	2.0 people, or am I missing a lot of conversations :)
[15:41]	McCabe Maxsted:	ooh, that's a good idea jessica
[15:42]	Saijanai Kuhn:	But, it rewrites part of the text handling
	code internally. No way to do it externally, and at that time, the LL
	timeline said they'd be working on doing it via XML so I never
	bothered to submit
[15:42]	Jessica Kabumpo:	I'd like to chat using my normal text color
	and others in SL see it.
[15:42]	Malbers Linden:	Tegg -- Chat 1 vs 2 is really interface changes. no
	plumbing issues.
[15:42]	Tegg Bode:	cool
[15:43]	Saijanai Kuhn:	chatsize is really a reference to a different
	font. They implement an APple ][ era text handler, so they use 3 sizes
	of TrueType fonts to handle text size
[15:43]	Jessica Kabumpo:	also, can we get teh color picker to allow
	us to input colors using XML color entities and/or CSS color names?
[15:43]	McCabe Maxsted:	that sounds like a good topic for next week's
	office hours
[15:44]	McCabe Maxsted:	hehe I love how I posted screenshots of me
	against the communicate window, but I've become so used to it I can't
	do without it now
[15:44]	Tegg Bode:	Hmm only prob with different chat colour for
	different peopole is we already have that for objects, unless we made
	them talk in bold or ittallics perhaps
[15:44]	Malbers Linden:	Which topic McCabe? -- color picker? fonts? Chat?
[15:44]	McCabe Maxsted:	oh was referring to the screenshtos in http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1076
[15:45]	McCabe Maxsted:	anyway
[15:45]	McCabe Maxsted:	I like the idea of bold font for yourself
[15:45]	Jessica Kabumpo:	I'd like to pick my color in SL by typing
	either "mediumorchid" or "#ba55d3"
[15:45]	Saijanai Kuhn:	the real problem is getting a patch like that
	accepted. LL has inernal plans that some patches step on. That is why
	Nicholas got so frustrated
[15:45]	Malbers Linden:	So, dazzle skinning (a la Maxsted)?
[15:45]	Jessica Kabumpo:	rather than "186,85,211"
[15:46]	McCabe Maxsted:	hehe yup ;)
[15:46]	IM: Trinity Coulter: sorry to IM, but I had a question about
	the focus of your group or Benjamin's
[15:46]	IM: Trinity Coulter: i'm not sure how its all set up
[15:46]	Tegg Bode:	Hmm well would be nice if some of the internal
	plans were relased so other peole didn't waste their time
[15:46]	Jacek Antonelli:	Yeah, it's a bit frustrating when you work
	on a big patch and then find out they changed the menus internally in
	the meantime ;) *grins*
[15:46]	McCabe Maxsted:	hehe
[15:46]	McCabe Maxsted:	I'm still relaly hoping that happens soon jacek
[15:46]	IM: Trinity Coulter: but i'm usually confused what sorts of
	suggestions are relevant here and helpful, since the discussions seem
	to drive off a cliff and explode every week
[15:47]	Saijanai Kuhn:	problem is that a LOT of the roadmaps changed
	when they went into bug-fix mode
[15:47]	Saijanai Kuhn:	avatar puppeteering was put on hold, for ??? isnstance
[15:47]	McCabe Maxsted:	it'd be so great to have
[15:47]	Jacek Antonelli:	I told Which Linden (that Linden!) that I'd
	try to get a revised patch that has the new layout
[15:47]	Malbers Linden:	(yep, I'm working on restructuring the menus)
[15:47]	Jacek Antonelli:	Need to do that
[15:48]	Jacek Antonelli:	For the menus formerly knows as Client and ??? Server
[15:48]	McCabe Maxsted:	I've been working on the regular menus (need
	to update my version with the latest change). Together, you and me
	jaceck! We'll change those menus yet!
[15:48]	Jacek Antonelli:	hehe
[15:48]	Malbers Linden:	There is a ton of stuff in Advanced which is just crazy
[15:48]	Jacek Antonelli:	Power of XUI! Power of Restructure!
	Together, we form... Captain Usability!
[15:48]	Saijanai Kuhn:	BTW, for anyone that wants true bleeding edge
	stuff, check out this: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/AWG_Test_Harness
[15:48]	Tegg Bode:	Inventory search by clothing type would be good,
	eg, shoes pants etc.
[15:49]	McCabe Maxsted:	it's there
[15:49]	McCabe Maxsted:	advanced > clothing
[15:49]	McCabe Maxsted:	the most USEFUL floater you never new about
[15:49]	McCabe Maxsted:	(I swear, I love that thing)
[15:49]	Malbers Linden:	hidden in the Advacned menu
[15:49]	Jacek Antonelli:	hehe yep
[15:49]	Jacek Antonelli:	Lotsa good stuff in that menu
[15:49]	McCabe Maxsted:	yup, like so many useful things taht we can't
	easily fix
[15:49]	McCabe Maxsted:	hehe
[15:49]	Trinity Coulter:	McCabe, that doesn't really help since half
	of the items in clothing aren't used as what their clothing type is
[15:49]	McCabe Maxsted:	you can sort by clothing type though
[15:50]	Jacek Antonelli:	Once it gets XUIfied, it'll be a piece of
	cake to move them into better menus
[15:50]	McCabe Maxsted:	click the icon in the upper left
[15:50]	Trinity Coulter:	its not useful tho, McCabe
[15:50]	McCabe Maxsted:	what's wrong with it?
[15:50]	JayR Cela:	well dinners ready / bye~byee everyone :_)
[15:50]	Trinity Coulter:	glitch pants aren't really pants
[15:50]	Trinity Coulter:	they are part of a skirt
[15:50]	Jacek Antonelli:	Bye JayR!
[15:50]	Saijanai Kuhn:	later JayR
[15:50]	Malbers Linden:	Bye JayR -- thanks for the dazzle suggestions
[15:50]	McCabe Maxsted:	ah, you mean clothing items that were made
	for a different purpose
[15:50]	Trinity Coulter:	jacket layers aren't always actually
	jackets, they're just another layer
[15:51]	Trinity Coulter:	same with lots of it
[15:51]	McCabe Maxsted:	don't know if there's any UI solution to that
	other than a search bar
[15:51]	Trinity Coulter:	jeans on the underwear layer etc etc
[15:51]	Tegg Bode:	Wow that is cool & hidden, neds a filter and to be
	findable in the inventory somehow
[15:51]	McCabe Maxsted:	which would be cool to have for clothing too, ??? heh
[15:51]	Jacek Antonelli:	That reminds me of two changes I wanted to
	make -- 1) arbitrary number of layers of clothing, and arbitrary
	order. and 2) clothing layer for the head
[15:51]	Trinity Coulter:	it would be great if you could actually
	count on the clothing types matching up
[15:52]	Saijanai Kuhn:	filter option with search might be doable. Not
	sure what info is retained about clothing though
[15:52]	IM: Trinity Coulter: well that might be an understatement :)
[15:52]	McCabe Maxsted:	like an outfit file, symlinked to various
	clothing files, that you could wear and take off
[15:52]	Jacek Antonelli:	Hey, you know what would solve this?
	Tagging! Tagging solves everything.
[15:52]	Jacek Antonelli:	>:D
[15:52]	IM: Trinity Coulter: when the first statement i hear when i
	walk in is
[15:52]	Kippie Friedkin:	yes!
[15:52]	McCabe Maxsted snickers
[15:52]	Kippie Friedkin perks up at every mention of tagging
[15:52]	Saijanai Kuhn:	a lot of this stuff seems easy but is REALY
	*really* hard to do because the UI ties directly into the asset server
[15:52]	IM: Trinity Coulter: "chatsize is really a reference to a
	different font. They implement an APple ][ era text handler, so they
	use 3 sizes of TrueType fonts to handle text size"
[15:52]	Tegg Bode:	Hmm would be great :)
[15:53]	IM: Trinity Coulter: that's just technospeak to me
[15:53]	Saijanai Kuhn:	you have to rewrite majjor portions of hte GUI
	to get it to work (my pet peeve)
[15:53]	IM: Trinity Coulter: and it seems like you are often trying
	to solve "typical" resident problems with the Viewer
[15:53]	Tegg Bode:	Hmm must ahve bumped SN, got in middle of room ??? somehow :)
[15:54]	Jacek Antonelli:	hehe
[15:54]	Jessica Kabumpo thinks there should be a reloadui command
	like in WoW
[15:54]	Trinity Coulter:	yes, I've suggested tags LOTS of times
[15:54]	Jacek Antonelli plays with her SN... most expensive
	paperweight I ever bought
[15:54]	Jessica Kabumpo:	Lawl ^-^
[15:54]	Jessica Kabumpo:	yea, I was surprised how heavy the SN is
[15:54]	Kippie Friedkin:	ack....the SN is a paperweight?
[15:54]	Saijanai Kuhn:	Trinity, like i said. GUI mods are much harder
	(some of them) then you expect. Parts of the GUI are actually controls
	for the asset server
[15:54]	Kippie Friedkin:	I just ordered taht thing!
[15:55]	Jacek Antonelli:	Kippie: it is if you use Linux
[15:55]	Kippie Friedkin:	ah...whew
[15:55]	Kippie Friedkin hugs her mac
[15:55]	Jacek Antonelli:	At least, right now
[15:55]	Trinity Coulter:	well one thing the Lindens could do INSTEAD
	of modifying assets on the server is just add the tags clientside
[15:55]	Kippie Friedkin:	I opted for the Notebook version
[15:55]	Malbers Linden:	kippie, the SN does have wierd interactions with Mighty
	Mice though
[15:55]	Jessica Kabumpo:	it has Linux drivers on the CD and on the ??? website
[15:55]	Trinity Coulter:	have the Viewer deal with tagging not add
	these in serverside
[15:55]	Saijanai Kuhn:	Trinit, but they need to rewrite the GUI to
	allow that to happen. The GUI actually IS the control
[15:55]	Jacek Antonelli:	Jessica: Yeah, but no SL support
[15:56]	Trinity Coulter:	yes, i realize that
[15:56]	Kippie Friedkin:	I use a tablet right now..and it makes
	moving around in SL murderous
[15:56]	Jessica Kabumpo:	but like nVidia, AMD, Broadcom and just
	about EVERYONE ELSE .... .they completely forget about BSD
[15:56]	Trinity Coulter:	maybe a rewrite of the Inventory window
	would be a great starting place
[15:56]	Tegg Bode:	What is BSD?
[15:56]	Jessica Kabumpo:	http://www.freebsd.orb/
[15:56]	Jessica Kabumpo:	grr
[15:56]	McCabe Maxsted:	that has sorely needed to be done for a long
	long time
[15:56]	Jessica Kabumpo:	s/orb/org
[15:56]	Trinity Coulter:	so it could be more possible to add on
	functionality even if its just client side
[15:57]	McCabe Maxsted:	there's a wiki page on an inv rewrite but it
	hasn't been touched in ages
[15:57]	IM: Trinity Coulter: lol
[15:57]	IM: Trinity Coulter: I'm perfectly able to speak geek
[15:57]	Jacek Antonelli:	(Hrmmm. Almost 4:00, and Ben never showed.
	He must be busy making a mailing list. *wishful thinking* :) )
[15:57]	IM: Trinity Coulter: but I prefer not to :)
[15:57]	Jessica Kabumpo:	Lawl ^-^
[15:57]	McCabe Maxsted:	hehehehe
[15:57]	McCabe Maxsted:	one can hope :)
[15:57]	Trinity Coulter:	Ben gets detention then
[15:57]	Jacek Antonelli:	lol
[15:57]	Kippie Friedkin:	LOL
[15:57]	Trinity Coulter:	off to the corn field
[15:58]	Malbers Linden:	I'll let Ben know he'd in everyone's doghouse
[15:58]	McCabe Maxsted:	good
[15:58]	Jacek Antonelli:	hehehehe
[15:58]	McCabe Maxsted:	and if you can
[15:58]	Kippie Friedkin:	lolol
[15:58]	McCabe Maxsted:	leave a note that says "mailing list -
	mccabe" on his desk
[15:58]	McCabe Maxsted:	can't let him escape a week!
[15:58]	Jacek Antonelli:	"and jacek"
[15:58]	Kippie Friedkin:	"and kippie!"
[15:58]	Jacek Antonelli:	:D
[15:58]	Trinity Coulter:	no no Malbers give him a big hug and tell
	him we missed him
[15:58]	Malbers Linden:	I'll print out this page of the transcript and highlight
	that line(s)
[15:58]	Jacek Antonelli:	hehehe
[15:58]	Jessica Kabumpo:	Lawl ^-^
[15:58]	McCabe Maxsted:	XD
[15:58]	Tegg Bode:	Pity we can't redecorate his office a little every
	time he doesn't show :)
[15:58]	Jessica Kabumpo:	XD
[15:59]	Trinity Coulter:	llSetAlpha
[15:59]	Jessica Kabumpo is thinking of burning a bunch of FreeBSD CDs
	and mailing them to LL with notes saying "Please support!"
[15:59]	Tegg Bode:	Knock out a wall or 2, add a blimp tehther tower
	and swap or 3
[15:59]	Malbers Linden:	Well, sorry we didn't have a tight topic today (like we
	ever really do)
[16:00]	Saijanai Kuhn:	well they DO support one variation fo FreeBSD
[16:00]	Jessica Kabumpo:	ORLY?
[16:00]	Saijanai Kuhn:	Mac OS X
[16:00]	Malbers Linden:	but the Dazzle feedback was good and McCabes skins were ??? interesting
[16:00]	Jessica Kabumpo:	¬.¬
[16:00]	Jessica Kabumpo:	not the same
[16:00]	Saijanai Kuhn:	eh...
[16:00]	Jessica Kabumpo:	SL doesn't even build on FreeBSD
[16:00]	Kippie Friedkin:	oh! one thing...the design studiesfor the
	Landmarks and Navigation project will be up in the next few days!
[16:00]	Jacek Antonelli:	Hehe, today was just as focused (if not
	more) than when we have a topic :D
[16:00]	Trinity Coulter:	is anyone skinning the Lindens running the
	asset server lol
[16:00]	Jacek Antonelli:	Yay, Kippie!
[16:00]	Kippie Friedkin:	I believe Stephany wil be posting info to sl-
	dev and on the project page on the wiki
[16:01]	Trinity Coulter:	that must be the hardest job
[16:01]	Jessica Kabumpo:	the linux SL client can not run
[16:01]	Malbers Linden:	yeah, there is a lot of stress for the folks who handle
	our plumbing
[16:01]	Tegg Bode:	Hmm maybe if our bot population drops now with new
	search the asset server might have an easier time
[16:01]	Trinity Coulter:	too many beans and cheese
[16:02]	McCabe Maxsted:	or if we had the ability to search fo
	rduplicates we could ease the asset server load
[16:02]	McCabe Maxsted:	my inv is now 45,000 items +
[16:02]	Jacek Antonelli:	Wow, McCabe!
[16:02]	Saijanai Kuhn:	something wrong there, IMHO
[16:02]	Tegg Bode:	yes how knows how many red brick wall textures are
	in the asset server
[16:02]	Jessica Kabumpo:	with the number of recent failures of the
	asset system .... I was starting to think the cluster master was about
	to completely fail
[16:02]	Trinity Coulter:	yes, someone actually suggested that
	improvements to the inventory would allow people to clean it out
	easier and reduce the asset server load
[16:03]	Kooky Jetaime:	I still want some way to do duplicate sorting.
[16:03]	Malbers Linden:	alright boys and girls and squirrels and kittens and
	kangaroos -- I'm gonna run.
[16:03]	Jacek Antonelli:	Hmmm. That could be doable with a patch
[16:03]	McCabe Maxsted:	okay malbers
[16:03]	Jacek Antonelli:	Alright Malbers, take care!
[16:03]	Malbers Linden:	thanks (as always) for your time and ideas
[16:03]	Tegg Bode:	k, cya later :)
[16:03]	Trinity Coulter:	bye Malbers thank you for swimming by
[16:03]	Kippie Friedkin:	Cya Malbers! A pleasure, as always
[16:03]	McCabe Maxsted:	always nice to see ya, take care!
[16:03]	Harleen Gretzky:	tc Malbers
[16:03]	Jacek Antonelli:	I'm gonna run as well. Ciao all!
[16:03]	Jessica Kabumpo waves her paw
[16:04]	Jacek Antonelli:	See you next week!
[16:04]	Teleport completed from http://slurl.com/secondlife/Beaumont/154/163/46
[16:04]	Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
	[16:04]  Connected