User:Benjamin Linden/Office Hours/2008-06-26
Transcript of Benjamin Linden's office hours:
| [2008/06/26 15: | 13] McCabe Maxsted: ahoy there malbers!
[2008/06/26 15:13] Squirrel Wood: html, xml... to be parsed by scripts ? [2008/06/26 15:13] Entering god mode, level 200 [2008/06/26 15:13] Geneko Nemeth: Yeah, you could paint your prim with that HTML! [2008/06/26 15:13] You: howdy all. [2008/06/26 15:13] You: let me get set up [2008/06/26 15:13] Jacek Antonelli: Hey Malbers! [2008/06/26 15:13] You decline 'metaPRESENTER box' ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Beaumont/153/151/47 ) from metaPRESENTER board( 4:3). [2008/06/26 15:13] McCabe Maxsted: oooh presentation? [2008/06/26 15:13] Jacek Antonelli: Hey Benjamin! [2008/06/26 15:13] Squirrel Wood: for example [2008/06/26 15:14] Geneko Nemeth: Hi Benjamin! [2008/06/26 15:14] Benjamin Linden: hi folks [2008/06/26 15:14] McCabe Maxsted: ahoy there benjamin! [2008/06/26 15:14] Saijanai Kuhn: that was my suggestion. Allow html on a notecard. Use it as a "local host" texture on a prim [2008/06/26 15:14] Squirrel Wood: Hello there! [2008/06/26 15:14] Aimee Trescothick: hi Ben :) [2008/06/26 15:14] Saijanai Kuhn: and, SVG is already supported, so it might be possible to use pure svg in html on a prim that way [2008/06/26 15:14] McCabe Maxsted: that'd be really cool sai; a lot more useful than parcel streams [2008/06/26 15:14] Benjamin Linden: mind if I share the bench with you tofu? [2008/06/26 15:14] Jacek Antonelli: Mmmm SVG on prim [2008/06/26 15:14] Harleen Gretzky: HI Malbers :) Benjamin :) [2008/06/26 15:14] Geneko Nemeth: SVG on a prim! SVG on a prim! Absolutely awsome that would be. [2008/06/26 15:15] Analog Nihilist: SVG for textures would be niiiiiice. [2008/06/26 15:15] McCabe Maxsted: wait, svg is supported now? [2008/06/26 15:15] Saijanai Kuhn: theoretically it works right now via html on a prim [2008/06/26 15:15] metaPRESENTER: Thanks, You Will Receive your metaHUD shortly. Enjoy... [2008/06/26 15:15] Saijanai Kuhn: mozlib suppoorts svg it turns out [2008/06/26 15:15] You: alright everyone [2008/06/26 15:15] You: I actually have a topic today [2008/06/26 15:16] Squirrel Wood: W00t! [2008/06/26 15:16] Geneko Nemeth: Yup SVG works... [2008/06/26 15:16] You: it's been so lonog since i've been here [2008/06/26 15:16] McCabe Maxsted: w00t! [2008/06/26 15:16] McCabe Maxsted: we've missed ya [2008/06/26 15:16] You: perhaps you've seen the ENORMOUS board I threw up over there [2008/06/26 15:16] Squirrel Wood: Indeed. We really have been missing you since your last victory candescence... [2008/06/26 15:16] metaPRESENTER: Thanks, You Will Receive your metaHUD shortly. Enjoy... [2008/06/26 15:17] metaPRESENTER: Thanks, You Will Receive your metaHUD shortly. Enjoy... [2008/06/26 15:17] You: so, i'm here to talk about the Notifications design work Brent and I have been doing [2008/06/26 15:17] Saijanai Kuhn: tries to figure out what board is for [2008/06/26 15:17] Kyle Linden is Online [2008/06/26 15:17] Geneko Nemeth: Wow, that's a lot of lindens today. [2008/06/26 15:18] Erica Linden: oh hai [2008/06/26 15:18] Brent Linden: why hallo thar [2008/06/26 15:18] Aimee Trescothick: It's a presenter, it gives out presents :D [2008/06/26 15:18] You: Sai, can you see anything on the board [2008/06/26 15:18] Squirrel Wood: Hullo [2008/06/26 15:18] Brent Linden needs a snack... brb! afk [2008/06/26 15:18] You: i'll use it to show some slides / images [2008/06/26 15:18] McCabe Maxsted: I see "notifications" [2008/06/26 15:18] Aimee Trescothick: clue, ignore the board, just look what's on it :D [2008/06/26 15:18] Jacek Antonelli: Yay, Notifications redesign! [2008/06/26 15:18] You: Perfect McCabe [2008/06/26 15:19] metaPRESENTER: Thanks, You Will Receive your metaHUD shortly. Enjoy... [2008/06/26 15:19] You: First. Let me do this as a presentation. I’ll walk through a bunch of material and then take questions. [2008/06/26 15:19] You: With any luck, I’ll answer your questions as I go through the screenshots. [2008/06/26 15:19] Jacek Antonelli passes out the popcorn :) [2008/06/26 15:19] You: Second. What are notifications? [2008/06/26 15:19] You: Loosely, it’s any feedback the system has for you. [2008/06/26 15:20] You: It could be based on an action you’ve taken, an action taken by another resident (or entity) that affects you, or by the system itself. [2008/06/26 15:20] Squirrel Wood: like, "teleport failed, you have been disconnected!" ? [2008/06/26 15:20] You: yep, that's one of them Squirrel [2008/06/26 15:20] You: “Notifications” are currently represented as the blue popups in the upper right hand corner, by the blue popups in the lower right hand corner, dialog boxes, and some of the text placed into your Chat history. [2008/06/26 15:20] Geneko Nemeth: Or "Resident Squirrel Wood has sent you a prim"? [2008/06/26 15:20] Geneko Nemeth: That's messy. [2008/06/26 15:20] Erica Linden: "alert! omg! you lost yr internet connection!" [2008/06/26 15:20] You: It’s a lot of stuff. [2008/06/26 15:20] Jacek Antonelli nods [2008/06/26 15:20] Geneko Nemeth: And a lot of code too! [2008/06/26 15:21] You: Most of our focus is on the blue popups in the upper right hand corner. [2008/06/26 15:21] Erica Linden: "Brent Linden is offering a teleport" [2008/06/26 15:21] Jacek Antonelli: (*waves to Kippie* :) ) [2008/06/26 15:21] Geneko Nemeth: Hi Kippie! We are just getting started. [2008/06/26 15:21] You: Third. Why are we doing this redesign? [2008/06/26 15:21] McCabe Maxsted: ahoy kippie! [2008/06/26 15:21] Geneko Nemeth: Turn around and there's a board behind you Kippie! [2008/06/26 15:21] You: * Stacking [2008/06/26 15:21] You: The current notification just comes in underneath the previous notification. There’s no way to get to it (or even know for sure that it’s there) until you deal with the previous notification(s). [2008/06/26 15:21] You: Our solution involves providing random access to notifications. [2008/06/26 15:22] Kippie Friedkin: Hi everyone...rez, rez, rez! [2008/06/26 15:22] You: * No History [2008/06/26 15:22] Geneko Nemeth: Um, I don't think the slide is changing... is that normal? [2008/06/26 15:22] Saijanai Kuhn: tabbed notifications window? [2008/06/26 15:22] You: yeah, no new slides yet -- laying groundwork [2008/06/26 15:22] You: There is currently no good way to see the notifications you’ve decided upon. [2008/06/26 15:22] McCabe Maxsted: gotcha [2008/06/26 15:22] metaPRESENTER: Thanks, You Will Receive your metaHUD shortly. Enjoy... [2008/06/26 15:22] You: Our solution involves making a History mechanism. [2008/06/26 15:23] Maurice Linden is Online [2008/06/26 15:23] You: * Not salient enough / not noticed [2008/06/26 15:23] You: Yep, our studies show that new residents often do not see the blue popups. [2008/06/26 15:23] Erica Linden: Blue popups stack up, unread [2008/06/26 15:23] Malbers Linden nods at Erica [2008/06/26 15:23] You: So, we are trying to make them more noticeable without being annoying. [2008/06/26 15:23] Erica Linden: tragic really. stuff looks broken that isn't. [2008/06/26 15:23] McCabe Maxsted resists urge to say "let's see these studies!" [2008/06/26 15:24] You: * Differentiate categories of notifications [2008/06/26 15:24] Jacek Antonelli giggles at McCabe [2008/06/26 15:24] You: There aren’t “priorities” for notifications. [2008/06/26 15:24] JayR Cela: how about a loud annoying horn beep to get theire attention / lol :_) [2008/06/26 15:24] You: Going back to the Stacking issue, if a “Region Restart” arrives right after a “Friend Request”, you are stuck looking at the Friend Request until you deal with it (or 5 minutes when your region goes down). [2008/06/26 15:24] You: We’re introducing a system so that “critical” or “temporally important” notifications can make themselves more apparent. [2008/06/26 15:24] You: * Code cleanup [2008/06/26 15:25] You: Yeah, this isn’t a Rx benefit per se but the code for the notifications infrastructure is being redone. [2008/06/26 15:25] Aimee Trescothick: Haptic feedback, electric shocks through the mouse [2008/06/26 15:25] Analog Nihilist: What about fading a notice after a while to near transparency? [2008/06/26 15:25] Maurice Linden is Offline [2008/06/26 15:25] Erica Linden: new resident studies that i've been running show that folks tend to ignore popups. they either don't make sense at first, are too wordy, or there are too many [2008/06/26 15:25] Jacek Antonelli: Let's let Malbers present [2008/06/26 15:25] Logan Linden is Online [2008/06/26 15:25] You: ood idea Analog -- we are getting there [2008/06/26 15:25] You: Forth. The usual caveats and disclaimers. [2008/06/26 15:25] You: Keep in mind that the eventual implementation WILL look different (and possibly act differently) based on technical challenges, design feedback, and other insights. [2008/06/26 15:26] You: And, about that implementation... [2008/06/26 15:26] Squirrel Wood: important notifications could "grow" or "creep" towards the screen center [2008/06/26 15:26] You: Hard to know off-hand when that will happen. [2008/06/26 15:26] You: A lot of code clean up is underway and will help from a maintenance perspective. [2008/06/26 15:26] You: We are still trying to align Rx and Eng resources to get these ideas into the Viewer. [2008/06/26 15:26] Saijanai Kuhn: I see one slide on that board and fps is about.1 right now [2008/06/26 15:26] You: Fifth. The Flash prototype. [2008/06/26 15:26] You: Sai, that's ok. it will be a while until i show a new slide [2008/06/26 15:27] You: after the Flash prototype [2008/06/26 15:27] Analog Nihilist: Tabs for multiple notices? [2008/06/26 15:27] You: Fire up your browsers. [2008/06/26 15:27] You: I’m gonna paste in a URL where the Flash prototype lives. [2008/06/26 15:27] McCabe Maxsted revs the engines [2008/06/26 15:27] Brent Linden: Woo! [2008/06/26 15:27] Jacek Antonelli: whee! [2008/06/26 15:27] You: Let’s all watch the Flash prototype for the next couple minutes. [2008/06/26 15:27] Kippie Friedkin: sweeeet [2008/06/26 15:27] Brent Linden: Moving pictures 4 you all :) [2008/06/26 15:27] You: This should allow you to watch the prototype a couple times (since the prototype is ~1 minute long). [2008/06/26 15:27] McCabe Maxsted: w00t moving pictures! [2008/06/26 15:27] You: http://lindens.lindenlab.com.s3.amazonaws.com/malbers/1-notif-while-notif-open.swf [2008/06/26 15:28] You: charge! [2008/06/26 15:28] Brent Linden braces for the reactions. [2008/06/26 15:28] Geneko Nemeth: Drunk Linden drinking contest... [2008/06/26 15:29] Aimee Trescothick: oh no! the regions going down [2008/06/26 15:29] Squirrel Wood: good concept [2008/06/26 15:29] Aimee Trescothick: looks good so far [2008/06/26 15:29] Squirrel Wood: I like [2008/06/26 15:29] Brent Linden: ACtually, it's a drunk Linden *dunking* contest -- for charity! [2008/06/26 15:29] Kippie Friedkin: me likey :) [2008/06/26 15:29] Brent Linden: where charity == the ops booze fund. [2008/06/26 15:29] Jacek Antonelli: Woo, scantily clad Lindens! [2008/06/26 15:30] Kippie Friedkin: lol [2008/06/26 15:30] You: Alright. Let me step through what we saw. [2008/06/26 15:30] Geneko Nemeth: Now if only notification windows could pop up up with an animation like that! [2008/06/26 15:30] Squirrel Wood: suggestion: make the message box flash too. not just the counter on top. like with the chat tabs. 2 or 3 flashes [2008/06/26 15:30] You: Well, that's the plan. [2008/06/26 15:30] Stella Linden is Offline [2008/06/26 15:30] Brent Linden: It will if I have anything to say about it! [2008/06/26 15:31] You: Yes, there was no sound in the Flash prototype. [2008/06/26 15:31] Saijanai Kuhn: gack half my textures are whited out usually its all of them [2008/06/26 15:31] You: There will be auditory cues in teh real thing. [2008/06/26 15:31] Analog Nihilist: Good. Sounds can be annoying. [2008/06/26 15:31] You: Haven’t gone there yet. [2008/06/26 15:31] Kyle Linden is Offline [2008/06/26 15:31] You: I’ll show a bunch of single screen mockups. There will be some slight differences between the Flash prototype and the mockups. [2008/06/26 15:31] You: New Slide! [2008/06/26 15:32] McCabe Maxsted: is that the navbar up top? [2008/06/26 15:32] Geneko Nemeth: Maybe it would be nicer to preload the sound into the client so it doesn't only fire after the popup has displayed for a few seconds [2008/06/26 15:32] You: We can ignore a bunch of this (even though there are a few other changes here). [2008/06/26 15:32] You: The important new part of the menubar is the new Notifications menubutton. [2008/06/26 15:32] Saijanai Kuhn: damn TP doesn't fix texture issue [2008/06/26 15:33] You: It’s the black “bubble” icon inside the button with the drop-down arrow. [2008/06/26 15:33] You: Most notifications now come “out of” this menubutton. [2008/06/26 15:33] You: Selecting this button will minimize or restore notifications. [2008/06/26 15:34] Brent Linden: It's not the navbar -- that's a part of this concept which moves the location info into a button -- one that, you know, looks like you can click it. :) [2008/06/26 15:34] You: If there are notifications you do not want to deal with this second, you can minimize them. Select again to restore them. [2008/06/26 15:34] Brent Linden: Novel concept, eh? :) Same with the L$ balance [2008/06/26 15:34] Kippie Friedkin: ooo [2008/06/26 15:34] You: There is also a menu that can pop down from here for other options like directly getting to a specific notification, history, or preferences (like “silent” mode). [2008/06/26 15:34] Kippie Friedkin: oooo..I like that a lot [2008/06/26 15:34] Erica Linden is Offline [2008/06/26 15:34] Brent Linden: Neither of those are the focus here :) I just wanted to clarify :) [2008/06/26 15:34] You: The new notification animates out of the Notifications menubutton. [2008/06/26 15:35] Saijanai Kuhn: kool as long as it doesn't drain my fps too much [2008/06/26 15:35] You: The icon in the menubutton now shows the number of unresolved notifications (as seen in the Flash prototype). [2008/06/26 15:35] Zee Linden is Offline [2008/06/26 15:35] You: To give us random access to any notification, we have a tab bar where each notification gets its own tab. [2008/06/26 15:35] You: History can be accessed on the far right. (More on History later.) [2008/06/26 15:35] M Linden is Online [2008/06/26 15:36] You: The body area of each tab has room for the text content in the middle. This can include controls for often used preferences. [2008/06/26 15:36] You: The body can contain hyperlinks. Things like people, objects, and locations are now links instead of huge, ugly SLURLs. [2008/06/26 15:36] You: They might have icons next to them. (That’s what the ASCII art is in the prototype and mockups.) [2008/06/26 15:36] Zee Linden is Online [2008/06/26 15:36] You: These links do not show up in the Flash prototype but are definitely part of our plan. [2008/06/26 15:36] You: These links would bring up the person’s profile, open the Map with the location showing, etc... [2008/06/26 15:36] Kippie Friedkin: cool [2008/06/26 15:36] You: Below the body, there is space in the lower left corner for a timestamp (relative to when the notification arrived). [2008/06/26 15:37] Brent Linden: Flash doesn't have Underlining :( [2008/06/26 15:37] You: Last, in the lower right corner, there is a spot for the needed buttons. [2008/06/26 15:37] You: When more than one notification is present and has not been resolved by the resident, make a new tab. [2008/06/26 15:38] You: hmmm.. having some issues with the slides [2008/06/26 15:38] Geneko Nemeth: What if he's someone like Torley Linden (actually any Linden) and have 20+ notifications when he logged on? [2008/06/26 15:38] You: That is a good question Geneko. Can we hold onto that for a minute? [2008/06/26 15:38] Geneko Nemeth: Kay, maybe I'm brining it up too soon. [2008/06/26 15:39] Brent Linden: Doh. Technical difficulties. [2008/06/26 15:39] Brent Linden: Erica will now dance for your enjoyment. [2008/06/26 15:39] Kippie Friedkin: lol [2008/06/26 15:39] Jacek Antonelli giggles [2008/06/26 15:39] Brent Linden: Dance Erica! Dance! [2008/06/26 15:39] Jacek Antonelli: Oops I think she ran away [2008/06/26 15:40] Stephany Linden is Offline [2008/06/26 15:40] Joshua Linden is Offline [2008/06/26 15:41] Brent Linden accepted your inventory offer. [2008/06/26 15:41] Squirrel Wood: Mmmm. Lorem Ipsum ^^ [2008/06/26 15:41] You: urg. sorry. still debugging [2008/06/26 15:41] McCabe Maxsted: gah! [2008/06/26 15:41] McCabe Maxsted: presentation censorship! [2008/06/26 15:42] Squirrel Wood: texture-on-prim - the ultimate solution ^^ [2008/06/26 15:42] Jacek Antonelli loves low-tech solutions [2008/06/26 15:42] McCabe Maxsted: hehe [2008/06/26 15:42] You: I did have this plan for "issues" if you didn't like it.... [2008/06/26 15:42] Geneko Nemeth: I guess the presenter can be de-rezzed now... [2008/06/26 15:43] McCabe Maxsted: if we didn't like the notifications? your plan was to kill us all and hide us in the prim, wasn't it? [2008/06/26 15:43] Jacek Antonelli: hehehe [2008/06/26 15:43] You: maybe.... [2008/06/26 15:43] Aimee Trescothick: rofl [2008/06/26 15:43] Second Life: Your object 'metaPRESENTER board( 4:3)' has been returned to your inventory lost and found folder by Benjamin Linden from parcel 'Linden Village - Benjamin Linden' at Beaumont 153.136, 152.91 due to parcel auto return. [2008/06/26 15:44] You: uploading new textures... [2008/06/26 15:44] Saijanai Kuhn: hmmm. Does html on prim slow anyone else down, or is it something else here [2008/06/26 15:44] Brent Linden: Standby :) [2008/06/26 15:44] Analog Nihilist: Benjamin, I have an issue with the UI I would like to bring up. [2008/06/26 15:44] Geneko Nemeth: It's jus this place needs a really powerful graphics card to render. [2008/06/26 15:44] Jacek Antonelli uses this lull as on opportunity to poke Benjamin about announcing the SL-UX list on SLDEV :D [2008/06/26 15:44] McCabe Maxsted: dunno hardly ever used it [2008/06/26 15:45] Geneko Nemeth: In other words Benjamin's office is lag powerhose. ^_^ [2008/06/26 15:45] Jacek Antonelli: Yeah, this house is a lag factory :D [2008/06/26 15:45] Brent Linden: Seriously. [2008/06/26 15:45] McCabe Maxsted: hehe [2008/06/26 15:45] Geneko Nemeth: Please wait... nyahaha [2008/06/26 15:45] Brent Linden: Is it showing ? [2008/06/26 15:45] Brent Linden: I see grey :( [2008/06/26 15:45] McCabe Maxsted: metahud: get what ya pay for [2008/06/26 15:45] Analog Nihilist: I see "Please wait..." with a watch. [2008/06/26 15:46] Jacek Antonelli: You need a "Technical Difficulties" sign with a drunken Linden operating a studio video camera :D [2008/06/26 15:46] Brent Linden: Oh good -- yeah its a texture from back in the day [2008/06/26 15:46] Harleen Gretzky: that's what I see also [2008/06/26 15:46] McCabe Maxsted: hahaha! [2008/06/26 15:46] Brent Linden: I need the Monkeys texture! [2008/06/26 15:46] Brent Linden: from the website [2008/06/26 15:47] You: well, i can press on if we all wing it a bit and look at the Flash prototype [2008/06/26 15:47] Saijanai Kuhn: ttp://eatourbrains.com/EoB/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/technical-difficulties1.jpg [2008/06/26 15:47] Brent Linden: What is this, the Welcome Area? :) [2008/06/26 15:48] Saijanai Kuhn: http://eatourbrains.com/EoB/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/technical-difficulties1.jpg [2008/06/26 15:48] Ram Linden is Online [2008/06/26 15:48] You: let's push on to the Group Notice in the prototype [2008/06/26 15:48] You: Next, there are notifications where someone (or something) can include freeform text. [2008/06/26 15:49] Logan Linden is Offline [2008/06/26 15:49] You: The Drunk Linden Dunking Contest [2008/06/26 15:49] Jacek Antonelli ponders group notifying alien robots... the Thing from Beyond the Notification... [2008/06/26 15:49] You: The main, user-supplied text shows up underneath the buttons bar. [2008/06/26 15:49] You: We wanted to keep the “title”-style stuff at the top of the tab as the most important information... [2008/06/26 15:49] You: AND we wanted to (roughly) keep the buttons in the same location. [2008/06/26 15:49] You: This design also helps limit the overall height of the tabs since we can scroll any extra long freeform text that is provided. [2008/06/26 15:49] You: While not an explicit goal, we did not want to take up enormous amounts of screen real estate for these notifications. [2008/06/26 15:50] You: If there is not enough freeform text to need the scrollpane, we’ll get rid of the scrollbars. [2008/06/26 15:50] You: If no freeform text is provided at all, this would look like the simple, Friend Request previously seen [2008/06/26 15:50] You: Does that make sense (with having an image to look at)? [2008/06/26 15:50] McCabe Maxsted: yup [2008/06/26 15:51] Jacek Antonelli: yep [2008/06/26 15:51] Jacek Antonelli: sounds good [2008/06/26 15:51] You: The next thing is probably the most confusing part of the Flash prototype. [2008/06/26 15:51] Kippie Friedkin nods [2008/06/26 15:51] Saijanai Kuhn: sorta. WOuld it be easier to use html and use the brfowser to display the text, rather than use your own custom formatting? [2008/06/26 15:51] You: Yeah, Sai. That's an implementation detail we'll work out. But a good suggestion. [2008/06/26 15:52] You: What are the rules for where focus goes? [2008/06/26 15:52] You: Which notification should have focus at any time? [2008/06/26 15:52] You: In the UI Spec, I have that “the overarching design goal is to put the user in control, help direct their attention to the notification of greatest import, or get the hell out of the way.” [2008/06/26 15:52] Saijanai Kuhn hates writing formatting code. Too many arithmetic errors [2008/06/26 15:52] You: For us, the main rule here is that the newest notification should get focus. [2008/06/26 15:52] You: There are clear arguments for the newest OR oldest notification getting focus but, after discussing lots of cases, we decided to go with the newest notification. [2008/06/26 15:53] You: (Yeah, the actual rules are more complicated but this is enough for now.) [2008/06/26 15:53] Saijanai Kuhn: can that tab have a color code for the animation? [2008/06/26 15:53] Squirrel Wood: important notifications should have the buttons in different places so you don't accidentally click a button the very moment a new notification pops up [2008/06/26 15:53] You: Let me go through the important things that happen in the Flash prototype as a concrete example. [2008/06/26 15:53] Squirrel Wood: thus killing the new note [2008/06/26 15:53] Aimee Trescothick: will script menus be considered as simply another notification, or would they be handled separately? [2008/06/26 15:53] You: (Good note Squirrel -- our focus rules factor that in) [2008/06/26 15:54] Squirrel Wood: or require a notification to be on screen for 2, 3 seconds before accepting input [2008/06/26 15:54] Aimee Trescothick: (kinda flipping between windows here, so sorry if it's already been covered and I missed it) [2008/06/26 15:54] You: They are in the same Notifications system Aimee. [2008/06/26 15:54] Aimee Trescothick: ok [2008/06/26 15:54] You: Alright, again, Let me go through the important things that happen in the Flash prototype as a concrete example. [2008/06/26 15:54] You: The Group Notice arrives (the third notification overall) and focus moves to it. [2008/06/26 15:55] Analog Nihilist: Malbers, have any Lindens sat down and considered the ways this could be abused for griefing? [2008/06/26 15:55] You: The mouse pointer moves over this notification. [2008/06/26 15:55] You: The Region Restart arrives BUT focus does NOT move to it. [2008/06/26 15:55] You: Why not? [2008/06/26 15:55] You: (Hold on a sec, Analog -- but the answer is Yes) [2008/06/26 15:55] You: We have few clues as to where the resident is looking at any second. [2008/06/26 15:55] You: The best proxy we have for this is where the mouse is. [2008/06/26 15:56] You: So, when the mouse is over the notification, we are assuming that the resident is reading it and interacting with it. [2008/06/26 15:56] You: Since they are interacting with it, we do not change the focus. [2008/06/26 15:56] You: Once the mouse leaves the area of the notification or (as for this case) the resident resolves the notification, the focus is transfered to the most recent notification. [2008/06/26 15:56] You: Yeah, this is not perfect but it is what we have. [2008/06/26 15:56] You: Until we get eye-tacking goggles or direct neural jacks for SL, it’s hard to say what else to do. [2008/06/26 15:56] You: I will DEFINITELY take suggestions for this area if you’ve got them (at the end). [2008/06/26 15:56] Geneko Nemeth: XD [2008/06/26 15:56] Saijanai Kuhn cringes at eye-TACKing goggles [2008/06/26 15:57] You: One other thing about not stealing focus for new notifications. [2008/06/26 15:57] You: Any new notification that arrives but does NOT get focus does get one of those little sub-bubbles containing the “title”. [2008/06/26 15:57] Aimee Trescothick: lol, was just thinking, need to write an iris tracking system for the webcam [2008/06/26 15:57] You: In this prototype, it’s “Region restarting at 10:07 PM” and “Teleport Offer: Rescuer Linden”. [2008/06/26 15:57] You: This is to provide a hint as to what the notification is for. [2008/06/26 15:57] Jacek Antonelli: cool. *loves the sub-bubbles* [2008/06/26 15:57] Analog Nihilist: Will there be ways of muting/gagging notifications from certain sources? [2008/06/26 15:57] Saijanai Kuhn: Aimee are you working on 3D camera system with Kapor? [2008/06/26 15:57] You: Alright, let’s move on to a new class of notifications. [2008/06/26 15:58] You: So far we’ve only really discussed “normal” notifications. [2008/06/26 15:58] Aimee Trescothick: (rofl :) no, but I want one to play with Sai :D) [2008/06/26 15:58] You: The “Friend Request” and “Group Notice”. [2008/06/26 15:58] You: These can (kinda) be resolved whenever the resident gets around to it. [2008/06/26 15:58] Ram Linden is Offline [2008/06/26 15:58] You: However, there are also notifications that need the resident’s attention immediately. [2008/06/26 15:58] You: Things like “Teleport Request” and “Region Restart”. [2008/06/26 15:58] You: These are interesting since they “time out” -- they are only applicable for a set time before they become inactive (or blow your world up). [2008/06/26 15:58] Analog Nihilist: And for example, auto-ignoring anything below a certain importance, or ignoring anything of certain notification classes? [2008/06/26 15:59] Jacek Antonelli: Analog, can we let Malbers finish? :) [2008/06/26 15:59] Aimee Trescothick: hmm [2008/06/26 15:59] You: The main differences for these “temporal” notifications are: [2008/06/26 15:59] You: * They get focus before other “normal” notifications [2008/06/26 15:59] Brent Linden invites you to click and hold the arrow menu next to the notifications icon on the menubar in the mockup [2008/06/26 15:59] You: * There is a little countdown timer in the tab itself [2008/06/26 16:00] McCabe Maxsted loves the timer [2008/06/26 16:00] You: * Their tabs are always pushed far right in the tab bar. [2008/06/26 16:00] You: * There is an explicit numerical count down in the tab (where the time stamp was) [2008/06/26 16:00] You: * Color change of the notifications menubutton. [2008/06/26 16:00] Grant Linden is Online [2008/06/26 16:00] You: * Countdown timer in the notifications menubutton [2008/06/26 16:00] Saijanai Kuhn: can't see anything is there a webpage usr for this? [2008/06/26 16:00] You: * Interaction with the native OS (Windows taskbar, Mac dock) [2008/06/26 16:01] You: (There might be a great task for one of you to integrate these with Growl.) [2008/06/26 16:01] You: There are also (very visually similar) “critical” notifications. [2008/06/26 16:01] Squirrel Wood: http://lindens.lindenlab.com.s3.amazonaws.com/malbers/1-notif-while-notif-open.swf [2008/06/26 16:01] You: thanks squirrel [2008/06/26 16:01] Aric Linden is Online [2008/06/26 16:01] You: Prime example is “God Shout”. [2008/06/26 16:01] Squirrel Wood: ^^ [2008/06/26 16:01] Aimee Trescothick: ooh, Growl, yes please [2008/06/26 16:01] You: These don’t time out but you realllllly should notice them. [2008/06/26 16:02] Kippie Friedkin: ooo..Growl...hmmmm [2008/06/26 16:02] You: It'll be a bit harder to talk about History [2008/06/26 16:02] Bridie Linden is Offline [2008/06/26 16:02] Squirrel Wood: Somebody wants to pay you L$1,000,000,000,000,000. Do you accept? [2008/06/26 16:02] You: It's pretty straightforward [2008/06/26 16:02] Poppy Linden is Online [2008/06/26 16:02] Brent Linden: (Where god shout = A worldwide announcement from a Linden) [2008/06/26 16:02] Geneko Nemeth: Put it on a prim! XD [2008/06/26 16:02] You: mostly a table of past/resolved notifications [2008/06/26 16:04] You: There are various alert dialog boxes that we are not touching. [2008/06/26 16:04] Brent Linden: (We're working out a solution for the images now on our side :-)) [2008/06/26 16:04] Brent Linden: Success!! [2008/06/26 16:04] You: Some of those things simply should be modal dialog boxes. [2008/06/26 16:04] Jacek Antonelli admires the history image [2008/06/26 16:05] You: many kudos to Brent for debugging [2008/06/26 16:05] You: can you see the History image now? [2008/06/26 16:05] Kippie Friedkin: yes [2008/06/26 16:05] Jacek Antonelli: yep [2008/06/26 16:05] Kyle Linden is Online [2008/06/26 16:05] McCabe Maxsted: yup got it [2008/06/26 16:05] Geneko Nemeth: Even the MOTD will be a notification... wow. [2008/06/26 16:05] Brent Linden: I was in QA after al :) [2008/06/26 16:05] You: (apparently i'm the only one who cannot. dangit!) [2008/06/26 16:05] Colton Linden is Offline [2008/06/26 16:05] Brent Linden: The black boxes next to each is an icon [2008/06/26 16:06] Brent Linden: a TBD icon :) [2008/06/26 16:06] Jacek Antonelli gives mad props to whoever came up with the sample text for these. :D *laughing* [2008/06/26 16:06] Brent Linden: Aw, thankies :) [2008/06/26 16:06] Brent Linden: I hate boring slides [2008/06/26 16:06] Brent Linden: You should see the others :) [2008/06/26 16:06] Alexa Linden is Offline [2008/06/26 16:06] McCabe Maxsted appreciates the little resize in the corner [2008/06/26 16:06] You: yes, let's just say that there are slides we can't use publically [2008/06/26 16:06] Kippie Friedkin: lol [2008/06/26 16:06] Jacek Antonelli: hahaha [2008/06/26 16:07] McCabe Maxsted: hahaha [2008/06/26 16:07] Jacek Antonelli: Quick question: the history is for the current SL™ session only? [2008/06/26 16:07] Geneko Nemeth: No. [2008/06/26 16:07] You: no, It won’t keep everything. It’ll get pruned off at some interval. [2008/06/26 16:07] Tofu Linden thinks 'resolution' sounds a bit formal. [2008/06/26 16:07] Coco Linden is Online [2008/06/26 16:07] You: still figuring out the interval [2008/06/26 16:08] You: still an open question [2008/06/26 16:08] Aimee Trescothick: history persistence through crashes would be lovely [2008/06/26 16:08] Jacek Antonelli: 'kay. *writing notes / feedback in a notecard* [2008/06/26 16:08] You: should it be pure # of notifications OR sessions or RL days OR ... [2008/06/26 16:08] Geneko Nemeth: I wish it could keep the logs of different days in different files, just like some IRC clients... oh wait, you mean notification history? [2008/06/26 16:08] Brent Linden: "Resolution" is what you did with the notification. So for instance, if you got a Friend Request, did you accept it? [2008/06/26 16:08] Jacek Antonelli: yes, notification history, Geneko [2008/06/26 16:08] Second Life: Your object 'Object' has been returned to your inventory lost and found folder by Benjamin Linden from parcel 'Linden Village - Benjamin Linden' at Beaumont 153.058, 153.671 due to parcel auto return. [2008/06/26 16:09] Brent Linden: Oh noes [2008/06/26 16:09] You: ARG [2008/06/26 16:09] Tofu Linden: Returned? :D [2008/06/26 16:09] Brent Linden shakes fist at object return. [2008/06/26 16:09] McCabe Maxsted: doh [2008/06/26 16:09] Brent Linden: We're freakin GODS for cryin out loud! [2008/06/26 16:09] Jacek Antonelli: lol [2008/06/26 16:09] Kippie Friedkin: lolol [2008/06/26 16:09] McCabe Maxsted: hahaha [2008/06/26 16:09] Squirrel Wood: let the users set how much history they want to keep ? [2008/06/26 16:09] Brent Linden turns it off (don' ttell ben!) [2008/06/26 16:09] Aimee Trescothick: it's to stop all these greifers [2008/06/26 16:09] Malbers Linden tries to become more transparent than usual [2008/06/26 16:09] Aimee Trescothick: all seem to have the surname linden [2008/06/26 16:10] Jacek Antonelli gives Malbers a squishy jelly hug [2008/06/26 16:10] McCabe Maxsted: what was the 0 next to the names? [2008/06/26 16:10] Aimee Trescothick: icon substitute? [2008/06/26 16:11] Guy Linden is Online [2008/06/26 16:11] McCabe Maxsted: ah, duh [2008/06/26 16:11] Jacek Antonelli: ahh [2008/06/26 16:11] You: this is why I try not to go into God mode too often [2008/06/26 16:11] You: too scary [2008/06/26 16:11] Kate Linden is Offline [2008/06/26 16:11] Aimee Trescothick: hi Dizzy :) [2008/06/26 16:11] Squirrel Wood: Mmmm. God Mode... Your attempt has been logged [2008/06/26 16:12] Brent Linden: I'll fix it :) [2008/06/26 16:12] Dizzy Banjo: howdy [2008/06/26 16:12] You: nice try squirrel [2008/06/26 16:12] Kippie Friedkin: ha [2008/06/26 16:12] Brent Linden: Good viewing angle? [2008/06/26 16:12] Squirrel Wood: Request for special powers failed. This request has been logged. [2008/06/26 16:12] Dizzy Banjo: lol squirrel [2008/06/26 16:12] Geneko Nemeth: A bit off from before but still good viewing angle! [2008/06/26 16:12] Geneko Nemeth loves using Flycam. [2008/06/26 16:12] Aimee Trescothick wonders if that log ever gets cleared ... or read :D [2008/06/26 16:12] Aimee Trescothick: must be prett long by now [2008/06/26 16:12] McCabe Maxsted: iddqd right? [2008/06/26 16:12] Aimee Trescothick: +y [2008/06/26 16:12] Squirrel Wood: idkfa [2008/06/26 16:12] You: well, we are at a weird spot here [2008/06/26 16:12] Tofu Linden: Want 'request god mode' to work? We're hiring! [2008/06/26 16:13] Jacek Antonelli: lol [2008/06/26 16:13] Dizzy Banjo: lol [2008/06/26 16:13] Geneko Nemeth: Nyahaha. [2008/06/26 16:13] You: I've said all i want to say but we are waaaay over time [2008/06/26 16:13] Brent Linden: Hahaha [2008/06/26 16:13] Aimee Trescothick: lol [2008/06/26 16:13] McCabe Maxsted: dang [2008/06/26 16:13] Squirrel Wood: aww [2008/06/26 16:13] Analog Nihilist: What qualifications does one need, Tofu? [2008/06/26 16:13] McCabe Maxsted: and here we have this new fangled mailiing list that just need topics [2008/06/26 16:13] Aimee Trescothick: heh, interested Tofu, but not quite figured where I'd fit lol [2008/06/26 16:13] McCabe Maxsted: what are we gonna do [2008/06/26 16:13] You: for Tofu != meat based [2008/06/26 16:13] Jacek Antonelli: Oh dear, quite a conundrum McCabe [2008/06/26 16:14] Jacek Antonelli: If only there were some way to use the mailing list to... I dunno, get peoples thoughts on stuff, or something? *gestures vaguely* [2008/06/26 16:14] You: yeah, good idea, fire your questions to the mailing list. [2008/06/26 16:14] Squirrel Wood: http://lindenlab.hrmdirect.com/employment/ [2008/06/26 16:14] You: that is just crazy talk, jacek [2008/06/26 16:14] Squirrel Wood: or something [2008/06/26 16:14] Jacek Antonelli: hehe [2008/06/26 16:14] Saijanai Kuhn: BTW, will those tabs be generic or will they be tied directly to the notification system? IOW< could a 3rd party developr reuse the interface? [2008/06/26 16:14] Dizzy Banjo: sorry to be behind the game, but is that notifaction graphic purely a swf mockup or a working trial system ? [2008/06/26 16:14] Squirrel Wood: http://lindenlab.com/employment - there we go [2008/06/26 16:14] You: those tabs are just for the notification system [2008/06/26 16:14] Jacek Antonelli: Just a mockup so far [2008/06/26 16:15] Saijanai Kuhn: ah too bad [2008/06/26 16:15] Brent Linden: Heh, I went into full phishing mode there [2008/06/26 16:15] McCabe Maxsted: bah, I looked at that site earlier and there was no openings for "nitpicker to fix ui gaps" [2008/06/26 16:15] You: objects thathave controls -- llDialog -- will also use them [2008/06/26 16:15] Jacek Antonelli: lol McCabe [2008/06/26 16:15] Saijanai Kuhn: ah, so it IS sorta generic [2008/06/26 16:15] Analog Nihilist: How configurable will dialog boxes become? [2008/06/26 16:15] Tofu Linden: (seriously though, all the info here - http://lindenlab.com/employment ) [2008/06/26 16:15] McCabe Maxsted: I trust it'll be skinnable :) [2008/06/26 16:15] Saijanai Kuhn much hate for Inventory folders [2008/06/26 16:15] Analog Nihilist: And... will there be possibilities for text entry? [2008/06/26 16:15] Milo Linden is Online [2008/06/26 16:15] Geneko Nemeth: Will llDialog be updated to expose the features of the new notificaion system? [2008/06/26 16:16] You: analog, we didn't really do much to the current dialog boxes [2008/06/26 16:16] Brent Linden: We figure llDialogs shouldn't change [2008/06/26 16:16] Brent Linden: We could destroy content's intentions by making changes to llDialog [2008/06/26 16:16] Saijanai Kuhn: BTW, at least for MY browser, the inworld browser won't display the interactive svg. [2008/06/26 16:17] Geneko Nemeth: It's a Flash file, not a svg. [2008/06/26 16:17] Jacek Antonelli: I'd like to see a mockup of how the llDialogs would be integrated into this. They have no title or priority, and they have a buncha buttons in a specific arrangement [2008/06/26 16:17] Saijanai Kuhn: does this vary from OS to OS [2008/06/26 16:17] Brent Linden: so the plan of attack for them is they'll fall into this design, with the buttons below the freeform area [2008/06/26 16:17] Saijanai Kuhn: ah OK, my bad misread the file type [2008/06/26 16:17] Brent Linden: No this is designed to be integrated into the SL UI [2008/06/26 16:17] McCabe Maxsted: it could be a good excuse to fix some of the nagging bugs in lldialog, then [2008/06/26 16:17] Brent Linden: We'd probably want to roll a different script call for that [2008/06/26 16:17] Jacek Antonelli nods [2008/06/26 16:17] Dizzy Banjo: well i must continue over at SL5B, great news tho.. looks awesome :D cyas all [2008/06/26 16:17] You: but we have "compatibility" to consider - -we shouldn't damage existing content [2008/06/26 16:17] Brent Linden: because we could accidentally break someone's thingie [2008/06/26 16:18] You: thans dizzy [2008/06/26 16:18] McCabe Maxsted: yeah [2008/06/26 16:18] Jacek Antonelli agrees emphatically. No breaky my toys! [2008/06/26 16:18] Geneko Nemeth wishes LSL can support overloading functions one day... [2008/06/26 16:18] You: no breaking thingies [2008/06/26 16:19] Analog Nihilist: One thing I'd *love* to see is being able to have those notification boxes appear someplace else. Like having the option to place them top right, like they are now, or bottom left, center top of the screen, etc. [2008/06/26 16:19] Aimee Trescothick: certainly not in PG sims [2008/06/26 16:19] Squirrel Wood: /ao on [2008/06/26 16:19] McCabe Maxsted: hehe useful quote for the brakeroom fridge [2008/06/26 16:19] Saijanai Kuhn: want overloaded function, look at IMprovedInstantMessage [2008/06/26 16:19] Brent Linden sighs. Seriously. [2008/06/26 16:19] Brent Linden: Teleports, inventor offers, chat... [2008/06/26 16:19] Brent Linden: what DOESN'T it do? [2008/06/26 16:19] Saijanai Kuhn: hit my head for a couple a months trying to get group IM working in python bot [2008/06/26 16:19] Brent Linden: I'll tell you what it doesn't do: dishes! [2008/06/26 16:19] McCabe Maxsted: it doesn't show group icons, as far as I can see [2008/06/26 16:20] Kippie Friedkin: heh [2008/06/26 16:20] Saijanai Kuhn: BUT, OGP Python lib will end up supporting it, so its all good [2008/06/26 16:20] Squirrel Wood: It can't make coffee [2008/06/26 16:20] Geneko Nemeth: Someone trying to cram everything but the kitchen sink into the new system... [2008/06/26 16:20] Brent Linden: I've been trying to get it to do them for a week. ImprovedInstantMessage is a bad housguest. [2008/06/26 16:20] McCabe Maxsted: that's how we differentiate notices [2008/06/26 16:20] McCabe Maxsted: if you get it to do dishes though... [2008/06/26 16:20] McCabe Maxsted readies his compiler [2008/06/26 16:20] You: alright all. Fire your questions at the email list. I'll answer them there and/or be back here to talk next week. [2008/06/26 16:20] Jacek Antonelli: I'm really liking the notifications redesign. Great work, Brent & Malbers! [2008/06/26 16:20] McCabe Maxsted: seriously [2008/06/26 16:20] Kippie Friedkin: Agreed. [2008/06/26 16:20] Aimee Trescothick: yeah, really impressed [2008/06/26 16:20] Saijanai Kuhn: Brent, your insights would be greatly appreciated in pyogp ;-) [2008/06/26 16:20] Squirrel Wood: ImprovedImprovedInstantMessage is the solution [2008/06/26 16:20] Kippie Friedkin: Looks really good. [2008/06/26 16:20] McCabe Maxsted: this effin' rocks, kudos to you both! [2008/06/26 16:20] Ramzi Linden is Offline [2008/06/26 16:21] Saijanai Kuhn: is very nice UI [2008/06/26 16:21] Squirrel Wood: It will always return 42. [2008/06/26 16:21] You: thanks. it was a hard problem [2008/06/26 16:21] Jacek Antonelli: And thanks for the presentation! Some technical difficulties, but fun and interesting all around :) [2008/06/26 16:21] You: garg! damn tech I don't undersand [2008/06/26 16:21] Saijanai Kuhn: 42... is that the current lmit on IIM index? [2008/06/26 16:21] Squirrel Wood: Definitely a very good and sound concept ^^ [2008/06/26 16:21] Jacek Antonelli writes up some feedbacks to send to the mailing list [2008/06/26 16:22] Jacek Antonelli: Take care, everyone! [2008/06/26 16:22] You: see you all next week [2008/06/26 16:22] McCabe Maxsted nods. I like the choices you made. Will do the same [2008/06/26 16:22] McCabe Maxsted: see ya jacek [2008/06/26 16:22] Squirrel Wood: Have a grrrrrrreat weekend ^^ [2008/06/26 16:22] Kippie Friedkin: Cya Malbers! [2008/06/26 16:22] Jacek Antonelli: And I'll try to have a look at your patch, McCabe [2008/06/26 16:22] Tofu Linden waves. [2008/06/26 16:22] You: bye kippie [2008/06/26 16:22] Second Life: Your object 'Object' has been returned to your inventory lost and found folder by Brent Linden from parcel 'Linden Village - Benjamin Linden' at Beaumont 153.581, 152.98. [2008/06/26 16:22] McCabe Maxsted: :) [2008/06/26 16:22] Tofu Linden is Offline [2008/06/26 16:22] Char Linden is Online [2008/06/26 16:22] Aimee Trescothick: bye :) [2008/06/26 16:22] LaPiscean Liberty: Im glad to see intergrid communication a priority over asset transmission [2008/06/26 16:22] Squirrel Wood: And make sure the humor on the slides makes it into the client ^^ [2008/06/26 16:22] Saijanai Kuhn: 42 IS the answer 42 possible values (43 counting zero) [2008/06/26 16:22] Kippie Friedkin: I'm off as well. Cheers all! :) [2008/06/26 16:23] Saijanai Kuhn: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/ImprovedInstantMessage [2008/06/26 16:23] McCabe Maxsted ponders translating the viewer into lolcat as soon as translations become easier [2008/06/26 16:23] Brent Linden: I do think 42 is the limit of objects that can be transferred at once yes? [2008/06/26 16:23] Kippie Friedkin: yes [2008/06/26 16:23] McCabe Maxsted: yup |
