User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2008 09 09

Transcript of Andrew Linden's office hours:

[11:02]	Cummere Mayo:	oh noes its arawn and andrew and anddrew is armed
[11:02]	Andrew Linden:	indeed, someone gave me this cool gun today
[11:02]	Arawn Spitteler:	Andrew has Arms?
[11:02]	Cummere Mayo:	hi fay
[11:02]	Andrew Linden:	it shoots crayons
[11:03]	Andrew Linden:	that leave a trail behind
[11:03]	Fay Tal:	hii :)
[11:03]	Rex Cronon:	hi everybody
[11:03]	Arawn Spitteler:	Crayola Congreve?
[11:03]	Cummere Mayo:	/ao off
[11:03]	Crayon Katyusha whispers: Use Mouselook (press 'M') to shoot me.
[11:03]	Crayon Katyusha whispers: Choose 'Detach' from my menu to take me off.
[11:03]	Arawn Spitteler:	Hi, rex. Phantomed through the floor? This place4 needs a TP to get downstairs.
[11:04]	Rex Cronon:	hi
[11:04]	Kitto Flora:	Hello
[11:04]	Rex Cronon:	no phatom. but i can become anytime:)
[11:04]	Andrew Linden:	Oh right, I still need to fix that.
[11:04]	Rex Cronon:	do u really need to:)
[11:04]	Cummere Mayo:	wow thats quite the ao fay *smiles*
[11:05]	Fay Tal:	:)
[11:05]	Cummere Mayo:	and nice pu with the name lol nice to knwo im not the only one with a sinceof humor with name creation
[11:05]	Fay Tal:	the ao scripts are 100% mine ^^
[11:05]	Cummere Mayo:	you sell that ao?
[11:05]	Kitto Flora:	Anyone found a good way to dispell Av Clouds?
[11:06]	Arawn Spitteler:	Hack your Viewer?
[11:06]	Cummere Mayo:	askign them to rebake works kitto
[11:06]	Kitto Flora:	Only if they do it :)
[11:06]	Andrew Linden:	There used to be a problem where some Mac clients would fail to rebake. But that was months ago.
[11:07]	Kitto Flora:	Cummere and Andrew are clouds
[11:07]	Cummere Mayo:	theres a feature request on jira soemwhere that is essentually for a "rebake others"
[11:07]	Andrew Linden:	well, I'm not on a Mac, so there goes that theory
[11:07]	Kitto Flora:	Andrew appears :)
[11:07]	Arawn Spitteler:	Ugh, yeah, I'm still finding dancers who do not know they're dancing.
[11:07]	Andrew Linden:	Did that work? Ok good
[11:08]	Cummere Mayo:	ah andrew no offense but that was oen really bad view
[11:08]	Kitto Flora:	So has Cummere now
[11:08]	Andrew Linden:	sorry about that ;-)
[11:08]	Andrew Linden:	Ok... I don't really have any announcements or news.
[11:08]	Cummere Mayo:	its ok ill jsut add that to all my other linden inflicted psyche scars
[11:08]	Arawn Spitteler:	Tools -> Stops All Animations has been changed to World -> Stop All Animations, but it only stops the animations of the viewer on that viewer
[11:09]	Kitto Flora wonders if Andrew explored the grass
[11:09]	Andrew Linden:	So we can just open the table for topics.
[11:09]	Andrew Linden:	Arawn, what version of client are you using?
[11:10]	Cummere Mayo:	um well i dotn knwo if its jiraed or not yet.... but 1.21 seems to like to rez megas in as full phantom half the time... even when they shouldnt be
[11:10]	Andrew Linden:	Tools menu? Arawn I don't see a Tools menu
[11:10]	Kitto Flora:	Thats anotherbug-feature
[11:11]	Arawn Spitteler:	1.21.RC1 The RC 0 would crash, and 1.20 hasn't got Mono
[11:11]	Kitto Flora:	Tools menu is not listed UNTILL you open the edit panel
[11:11]	Andrew Linden:	Ah there it is
[11:11]	Arawn Spitteler:	Tools is back, on 1.21
[11:11]	Kitto Flora:	Sadly 1.21 wont run for more than about an hour for me
[11:11]	Arawn Spitteler:	Stop All Animations has been moved to World, but still doesn't work
[11:12]	Arawn Spitteler:	1.21.0 or 1.21.1?
[11:12]	Andrew Linden:	Ah, I see that "Stop All Animations" is correctly in my World menu
[11:12]	Cummere Mayo:	yeah 1.21 they put tools back in. and i heard devs were told they would lose body parts if they removed the menue again lol
[11:12]	Andrew Linden:	and I'm on 1.20.15
[11:13]	Cummere Mayo:	kitto you get an hour on 1.21 ? *drools with envy*
[11:13]	Kitto Flora:	1.20.15 does stay running a while her. Mostly
[11:13]	Arawn Spitteler:	There's a new feature that Kitto's going to have a lot of work with, where the script can ask a 1.21 viewer what language to use.
[11:13]	Andrew Linden:	I think the movement of the Tools menu was the UI design team trying to clean things up
[11:13]	Kitto Flora:	I been using that for ages, Arawan
[11:13]	Arawn Spitteler:	I had to really search, for 1.21.1, since the upgrade was left optional
[11:13]	Kitto Flora:	crashes permitting :)
[11:14]	Cummere Mayo:	heh awawn jsut join bsi you get the newest viewers before they even hit beta grid
[11:14]	Cummere Mayo:	ont he downside most of them are really really unstable
[11:14]	Kitto Flora:	But theres no point in working on MONO when the client keeps locking up the PS
[11:14]	Arawn Spitteler should resubmit his application
[11:14]	Cummere Mayo:	jsut talk to bridie
[11:15]	Andrew Linden:	I'll put in a good word for you Arawn ;-)
[11:15]	Arawn Spitteler:	I used to use the 1.21 from the Beta Grid, once I found the widget
[11:15]	Cummere Mayo:	but yeah general consensus seems to be the 1.21 needs ALLOT of work before they release rc1 but then they ignored us when we said dotn release rc0
[11:15]	Andrew Linden:	You know... I just can't keep up with all the changes going on, expecially on the viewer side of things
[11:16]	Cummere Mayo:	fortuneately they never remembered to make rc0 a mandatory upgrade for those using 1.20.14 rc
[11:16]	Andrew Linden:	I can't provide much news or info on viewer development, unless I look up the specific answers.
[11:16]	Andrew Linden:	Why shouldn't they have released RC0 Cummer?
[11:17]	Cummere Mayo:	its ok andrew we jsut need to bitch cause the peopel that created bsi to listen to us andget feedback are ignoring it
[11:17]	Kitto Flora:	Yeah - bunt aren't you close enough to whack some Dev's knees andrew?
[11:17]	Cummere Mayo:	andrew becuase its WAY unstable
[11:17]	Cummere Mayo:	msot peopel cant get it to run more then half an hour
[11:17]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm... I would have thought they would keep it tight if it was so unstable...
[11:17]	Cummere Mayo:	by way unstable i mean before it was released there were over 100+ reproted bugs
[11:18]	Andrew Linden:	I wonder if there was a push for more feedback on UI changes
[11:18]	Andrew Linden:	dunno... I can only speculate
[11:18]	Cummere Mayo:	andrew form an outside perspective it seems to me that qa is more concenred with keeping a timetable then with quality
[11:18]	Andrew Linden:	oh, unstable as far as changes that needed to be made
[11:18]	Andrew Linden:	was it known to be crashy too?
[11:18]	Kitto Flora passes a toob of prep-h to Fay.
[11:18]	Cummere Mayo:	thats what im saying andrew. most peopel cant run more then half an hour before it crashes
[11:19]	Andrew Linden:	ah ok
[11:19]	Cummere Mayo:	for me its 5 min
[11:19]	Cummere Mayo:	and the physics on it is all messed up
[11:20]	Cummere Mayo:	hich is where it becoems relevant to you
[11:20]	Andrew Linden:	when my code goes through QA the testers can declare a bug a "blocker" and that halts any merge plans
[11:20]	Arawn Spitteler:	Alt-Cam is almost usable now, where it wasn't on RC0
[11:20]	Andrew Linden:	however, I suppose viewer development is different, especially when they are providing bleeding edge clients to select groups
[11:21]	Andrew Linden:	the "physics" is all messed up in the SL client? What do you mean by that?
[11:21]	Cummere Mayo:	ok andrew bear with me this is gonan be a long typing
[11:21]	Andrew Linden:	Since there is almost no true physics being computed on the SL client, the statement is not clear to me.
[11:22]	Cummere Mayo:	1) allot of megaprims rez pahntom when you first port into an area and stay that way (didnt happen previously) positions of stuff is messed up. from sitting, to prim locations etc, sculpted prims are having even MROE trouble rezzing correctly cause they corrupt more often
[11:22]	Rex Cronon:	when i can only push myself only 20m above my current height. what do u call that?
[11:23]	Cummere Mayo takes a breath and continues
[11:24]	Andrew Linden:	megaprims are coming in truly phantom? (phantom bit is checked?) or just collisionless with the avatar?
[11:24]	Cummere Mayo:	4) allot of telleporters arent correctly working. 5) prim volume has a horrid bug and causes lots of crashing...
[11:24]	Cummere Mayo:	colisions with avitar and soemtiems other prims even when phatnom is unchecked
[11:25]	Arawn Spitteler:	I found a teleporter that sends me flying, but thought that a teleporter bug
[11:25]	Andrew Linden:	for (5) what do you mean by "prim volume"? The LLVolume class? or the LLPrimitive class?
[11:25]	Rex Cronon:	cummere, i missied your second and third point, can u repat them?
[11:25]	Cummere Mayo:	ild jira it for you but im locked out of jira atm but theres a reported bug on the jira to show you what i mean
[11:25]	Rex Cronon:	repeat*
[11:25]	Andrew Linden:	some of those physics problems sound like server problems, so are related to 1.24-Server
[11:26]	Cummere Mayo:	but soemthign about the volume settings on soem prims is wrong and its cauisng crashes when the viewer tries to render them
[11:26]	Andrew Linden:	Ah ok, that makes sense Cummere, about bad prim settings crashing the client
[11:26]	Cummere Mayo:	rex 2) postions are messed up
[11:27]	Cummere Mayo:	3) sculpties are corrupting even more
[11:27]	Rex Cronon:	thanks:)
[11:27]	Cummere Mayo:	these i think are mroe yoru department andrew
[11:27]	Arawn Spitteler hasn't seen much of these.
[11:27]	Andrew Linden:	more context on (2)... positions of... subprims of linked sets? objects that are in-world already? relative locations of rezzed collections?
[11:27]	Arawn Spitteler:	My workshop is on a megaprim
[11:27]	Crayon Katyusha (trail) glow whispers: Use Mouselook (press 'M') to shoot me.
[11:27]	Crayon Katyusha (trail) glow whispers: Choose 'Detach' from my menu to take me off.
[11:28]	Cummere Mayo:	pretty much all of thsoe andrew
[11:28]	Cummere Mayo:	PLUS avitar positiosn nto rendering right
[11:28]	Cummere Mayo:	though they fixed the sitting part of it
[11:28]	Andrew Linden:	Sculpties are not really a server-side feature. We have yet to make them collide with more proper collision shapes
[11:28]	Andrew Linden:	in fact, the server only knows that the sculptie bit is set, and that is about all
[11:29]	Andrew Linden:	(server side sculpty needs work)
[11:29]	Arawn Spitteler:	Hi, Simon
[11:29]	Andrew Linden:	btw... is it 'sculpty' or 'sculptie'? The former I would guess
[11:29]	Kitto Flora:	Yes
[11:29]	Simon Linden:	Hi - yikes, very slow to rez today
[11:29]	Cummere Mayo:	yeah but um... to give an example... usually ive nto had too much sculpty distortion, but a while back arawn gave me a three leged stool all one prim. when i rezzed it on the 1.21 it looked liek a pretzle
[11:29]	Kitto Flora:	Sculpty / Av collision is a problem
[11:30]	Rex Cronon:	hi simon
[11:30]	Cummere Mayo:	hey simon...
[11:30]	Rex Cronon:	actually qarl likes to call them "sculpties"
[11:30]	Kitto Flora:	It appears that some sculpty has a huge collision footprint for dynamics
[11:30]	Cummere Mayo:	/m grins evilly "after the meeting simon i need to talk to yous "
[11:30]	Andrew Linden:	yes kitto, that is correct...
[11:31]	Arawn Spitteler wishes he could search inventory by creator: Is that named Small Stool?
[11:31]	Cummere Mayo:	yeah arawn at least the oen you gave me is
[11:31]	Andrew Linden:	or actually, if you make a sculpty that has a dramatically different appearent shape than its collision proxy... there will be very unexpected collision problems
[11:31]	Kitto Flora:	There are
[11:31]	Andrew Linden:	in particular... a shape colliding where there is no apparent visible surface
[11:32]	Andrew Linden:	megaprim sculpties will be the most problematic
[11:32]	Kitto Flora:	And - that was the cause of the pampas grass problem
[11:32]	Arawn Spitteler:	It would be nice, if we could toggle a collision view of Sculpties
[11:32]	Kitto Flora:	It wasnt the grass, it was a nearby tree thats a sculpty
[11:32]	Andrew Linden:	yes Arawn, that would be useful
[11:33]	Kitto Flora:	Aren't bounding boxes used for collison detection?
[11:33]	Andrew Linden:	Simon, I didn't have any announcements to make, so if you've got any feel free to share.
[11:34]	Arawn Spitteler:	Bounding boxes would offer a first guess, is my guess.
[11:34]	Andrew Linden:	BTW, Simon I was wondering... there were a team of developers working on fixing some server side bugs for a two weeks or more... is that effort still going on? That is, has the bug-fix-sprint ended?
[11:34]	Simon Linden:	No annoucements ... I'm lurking/multitasking as I'm trying to get a bug fix into today's sim rebuild
[11:35]	Simon Linden:	The bug-sprint is continuing this week, not sure how long after that
[11:35]	Andrew Linden:	ok thanks
[11:35]	Simon Linden:	Some are going into the Mono quick-fix pipeline, others into the normal maintenance / release track
[11:36]	Andrew Linden:	I don't think the 1.25-Server has hit "code freeze" yet, so hopefully some of these bug fixes will pass through QA before then
[11:36]	Arawn Spitteler wonders if there's time-possibility for an unmisfix of SVC-2931 http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2931
[11:37]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm... I'm sorta in charge of getting most of the simulator maintenance branches through QA and merged back. I guess I should find out if the maint-server-4 branch is ready for QA (has enough bug fixes)
[11:38]	Andrew Linden:	Sorry Arwan, I haven't yet asked around for LL input on that one. I'll try to get to it this week.
[11:38]	Andrew Linden makes a note
[11:38]	Arawn Spitteler:	1km to an axis would be good for Burning Life, but content is lingering
[11:39]	Kitto Flora:	Is BL going to have any good transport?
[11:39]	Andrew Linden:	oof, we wouldn't be able to expand the linkability of the avatar to 1 km, at least not horizontally'
[11:39]	Andrew Linden:	er... in any direction really... the object could always be rotated
[11:40]	Arawn Spitteler is working on a Toronado, again, but also hopes for the One Prim Steam Punk Vehicle
[11:41]	Andrew Linden:	Sometimes people attend these office hours with a burning question, but only ask it at the end, via IM
[11:41]	Cummere Mayo:	gah they never psoted the logs from last wed triage and that had msot of the jiras i wanted to shwo you andrew :(
[11:41]	Andrew Linden:	I guess the impression is sometimes that the questions are not valid topics for discussion
[11:41]	Kitto Flora:	Any news of legitimate megaprims?
[11:42]	Andrew Linden:	I'd say that as long as it doesn't give away proprietary design ideas, or reveal personal information, any question is valid for open discussion
[11:43]	Arawn Spitteler:	Megaprim Liberation? A lot of bridges should be 20-30 meter Y dimension Tubes
[11:43]	Andrew Linden:	Kitto, the only news I've got on legitimate megaprims is not very exciting...
[11:43]	Kitto Flora:	People keep asking me if they can use megaprims for train tracks
[11:44]	Andrew Linden:	I put some goals on my 2008.Q2 list to make some progress on object-parcel collision queries (being able to return objects that overlap on your parcel)
[11:44]	Arawn Spitteler:	What's the cost difference, between a ten meter track, and a 30 meter track?
[11:45]	Andrew Linden:	and haven't been able to make any progress on that (just too many things get pushed to the top of my TODO list)
[11:45]	Kitto Flora:	Awww
[11:45]	Arawn Spitteler:	Is it possible to make such a query on an hourly basis?
[11:45]	Kitto Flora:	And - tracks are free... same cost for 10M and 30M
[11:46]	Arawn Spitteler:	Cost to Physics Engine: How much more does it cost, to calculate land vehicle collisions, on megaprims
[11:46]	Kitto Flora:	A lot of stuff would benefit from legitimate megaprims... but the return capabilty is rather necessary.
[11:46]	Andrew Linden:	Arawn, the idea of parcel-object collision queries is to be able to ask the physics engine: "Is this object overlapping this parcel?"
[11:46]	Andrew Linden:	The code for that is basically done... Qarl Linden wrote it.
[11:47]	Andrew Linden:	However, it needs some UI work, and it needs someone to push it through the system, get everyone to agree to exactly how/when it should work.
[11:47]	Andrew Linden:	Which is what I was going to try to do this quarter
[11:47]	Arawn Spitteler:	So, the query would only have to be asked, when the prim or the object moved.
[11:48]	Andrew Linden:	Correct Arawn, or only when someone wanted to try to return it.
[11:48]	Arawn Spitteler:	Some new form of hissy fit will be needed, now that Advertisements are going away.
[11:49]	Andrew Linden makes a note... new hissy fit needed.
[11:49]	Kitto Flora wonders about selling adverts on train sides :)
[11:49]	Arawn Spitteler:	How did Steam Sky City ever resolve? Kitto, that would be a fortune.
[11:50]	Kitto Flora:	I never heard of steam sky city
[11:50]	Arawn Spitteler:	In Caledon, a Steam Punk City in-the-sky. Every parcel is over a megaprim, to my recollection
[11:51]	Kitto Flora:	what means 'parcel over a megaprim' ?
[11:51]	Andrew Linden:	He means every parcel is overlapping with a megaprim
[11:51]	Arawn Spitteler:	Your build would be an office in a building.
[11:52]	Kitto Flora is lost
[11:52]	Andrew Linden:	the way I was planning on making it work Arawn, was to allow any parcel owner to return any overlapping object... but it would be a manual process... they would have to decide to return it or not, not automatic
[11:52]	Arawn Spitteler:	Estate Owned Megaprim, you should go look, it's a lot of fun
[11:52]	Kitto Flora:	who cares about parcels, except for border encroachment?
[11:52]	Andrew Linden:	right
[11:53]	Cummere Mayo:	lol if its an estate owned megaprim and youre renting would you still be able to return it?
[11:53]	Kitto Flora:	one requirement for megaprims was the ability of any parcel owner to be able to return a prim that encroaches.
[11:53]	Andrew Linden:	Well, therein lies the details that need to be worked out
[11:53]	Arawn Spitteler:	That's the sort of detail being worked out.
[11:53]	Andrew Linden:	many estate owners are going to want to be able to override the "return overlapping object" feature
[11:54]	Andrew Linden:	really, I need a good design
[11:54]	Kitto Flora:	override - how?
[11:54]	Kitto Flora:	Prevent?
[11:54]	Andrew Linden:	that is. details about how the feature should work for all the corner cases, and any override flags and such
[11:55]	Andrew Linden:	Then I could implement it... in my copius spare time...
[11:55]	Kitto Flora:	I dont see what to overide...
[11:55]	Kitto Flora:	If I own this parcel and you prim sticks into it - I should be able to click that prim and 'return' it
[11:56]	Kitto Flora:	If I like it there - I leave it there
[11:56]	Kitto Flora:	(an easement)
[11:56]	Cummere Mayo:	andrew kinda break int he topic but who does the stuff with the inventory database?
[11:56]	Arawn Spitteler:	Doesn't really matter, if it's a megaprim, but if it's part of the landscaping of the estate owner, then the power to return becomes questionable
[11:56]	Andrew Linden:	Right. However some estate owners have "public content" that overlaps parcls they lease to other residents
[11:57]	Cummere Mayo:	or the megaprim IS the land they lease lol
[11:57]	Andrew Linden:	and we've already had requests from Estate Owners that if we roll such a feature, they want to be able to turn it off
[11:57]	Kitto Flora:	So the owner tells the renter to leave the stuff around
[11:57]	Andrew Linden:	meanwhile... there is a fair amount of Linden content that overlaps little corners of private parcels... diagonal roads and such
[11:57]	Arawn Spitteler once returned a floor, when aiming at a Parafin Lamp
[11:57]	Kitto Flora:	Whats this? strata-renting now?
[11:58]	Cummere Mayo:	yeah but soem renters ont lsiten and soem estate owners might get psised when their "no copy" wall or ground suddenly gets deleted cause ti was returned by a careless renter
[11:58]	Andrew Linden:	some people have expressed concern over such Linden content, however Michael Linden (who is one of the main managers of said content) doesn't seem worried...
[11:58]	Kitto Flora:	returned is no 'deleted'
[11:58]	Andrew Linden:	he thinks that if it overlaps at all... then parcel owners should be able to return it
[11:58]	Arawn Spitteler:	It's a nuisance, when an Access Line is half across a roadway
[11:58]	Andrew Linden:	we'd have to modify the Linden Content accordingly
[11:58]	Cummere Mayo:	kitto it is if its group owned and no copy
[11:59]	Andrew Linden:	correct, "returned" is not deleted
[11:59]	Andrew Linden:	I think there is a "restore object" feature currently under the works
[11:59]	Kitto Flora:	Well - Linden roads are notoriously sloppy
[11:59]	Kitto Flora:	(in places)
[11:59]	Kitto Flora:	Be good to get em cleaned up
[11:59]	Andrew Linden:	to allow returned assets to be returned to world exactly where they were returned from
[12:00]	Cummere Mayo:	taht would be nice
[12:00]	Andrew Linden:	Right Kitto, I think that was Michaels same reasoning
[12:00]	Kitto Flora:	The mysterious Michael!
[12:00]	Cummere Mayo:	hey andrew wh controsl the inventory database? cuase theres been soem major and repeating issues cripping up on it
[12:00]	Cummere Mayo:	*cropping
[12:00]	Kitto Flora:	Anyways - it cant be that bad
[12:00]	Andrew Linden:	more details please Cummere.
[12:01]	Kitto Flora:	In Wish we have starta renting - people building over megaprims in their own area
[12:01]	Cummere Mayo:	um basically the directories on the inventory servers ahve been failing and movign things aroudn locking out users from their ivnentories till a linden manually fixes the subdirectory
[12:01]	Cummere Mayo:	and tis been hapepneing with increasing frequency
[12:02]	Kitto Flora:	Asset server issues?
[12:02]	Andrew Linden:	I'm not sure who is involved in working on that right now...
[12:02]	Cummere Mayo:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-8438 is one of about 50 cases ive heard of and two weeks ago oen of the peopel that attended had a sl daughter witht he same issue
[12:02]	Andrew Linden:	the "inventory system" spans several groups...
[12:02]	Andrew Linden:	there is UI and client-side code, server-side code, and also machines that actually host the db's
[12:03]	Cummere Mayo:	well somehow the software that cotnrols the directories seems to have gotten corrupted somehow...
[12:03]	Kitto Flora:	Keep copius copies of everything
[12:03]	Arawn Spitteler thinks Asset Management deserves its own Project, as does Documentation
[12:03]	Cummere Mayo:	kitto thats not the issue
[12:04]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm... it appears that Milo Linden may know more about inventory woes. I'll try to ask him.
[12:04]	Cummere Mayo:	its that its saving the copies outside of the subdirectory then tires to dsipaly it and if you try to access anything BOOM
[12:04]	Kitto Flora:	Well .. its goofor when the asset server looses your stuff ;)
[12:04]	Andrew Linden:	Ok, the hour is up, and I've got to go.
[12:05]	Kitto Flora:	Corrupted pointers?
[12:05]	Cummere Mayo:	ok ttyl andrew :)
[12:05]	Kitto Flora:	Lunchtime :)
[12:05]	Kitto Flora:	Byebye
[12:05]	Cummere Mayo:	simon you got a few ?
[12:05]	Simon Linden:	Thanks everyone for coming
[12:05]	Rex Cronon:	bye andrew
[12:05]	Arawn Spitteler hopes Andrew is careful what he rezzes in God Mode.
[12:05]	Cummere Mayo:	simon can i steal you a few?
[12:06]	Simon Linden:	sure, what's up?
[12:06]	Kitto Flora:	Theres guys are quick on the draw with them crayons?
[12:06]	Opensource Obscure:	:D
[12:06]	Cummere Mayo:	ahs kyle sent you the results form the testing on cola?