User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2010 06 04

Transcript

[16:00]	xstorm Radek:	i like that box lol
[16:00]	xstorm Radek:	funny faces
[16:01]	xstorm Radek:	hi PSI
[16:01]	Psi Merlin:	Hello /all
[16:02]
[16:04]	Ardy Lay:	Hi Simon
[16:04]	xstorm Radek:	hi Simon :-) i will be good
[16:05]	Simon Linden:	hello ... sorry to be late, Andrew and I were in a meeting marathon
[16:05]	Ardy Lay:	Hi Andrew
[16:05]	xstorm Radek:	Hi Andrew :-)
[16:05]	Andrew Linden:	Hello
[16:05]	Techwolf Lupindo:	ARe ylu board to death yet? (re:meetings)
[16:05]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, I'm all met out.
[16:06]	s greeter	says: Hello Psi, xstorm, Techwolf, Simon, Arawn, Andrew, Ardy, and Jonathan.
[16:06]	Arawn Spitteler	tries not to bore anyone, while he keeps his hand in mentioning SVC-22 and SVC-93: Sheep
[16:06]	ROTATION and	llSetRot incorrectly implemented for child prims
[16:06]	Vehicles crossing	region borders aren't always treated as vehicles and can get incorrectly returned if the destination parcel is no-entry or parcel-full
[16:06]	Andrew Linden:	The meeting was a big "sort through what we'll be doing for the next three weeks" effort
[16:06]	Rex Cronon:	greetings:)
[16:07]	Ambroff Linden:	hola
[16:07]	xstorm Radek:	may i show you a cool pic Andrew and Simon ?
[16:07]	Andrew Linden:	for just a small team of about 6 devs
[16:07]	Ardy Lay:	Hi Ambroff
[16:07]	Rex Cronon:	hi abromff
[16:07]	Jonathan Yap:	I'd like to mention SVC-1167 -- I was looking for this function and was surprised to see a jira on it
[16:07]	Script function	to return objects
[16:07]	Rex Cronon:	a flower linden:)
[16:07]	Andrew Linden:	Hey Ambroff, welcome.
[16:07]	xstorm Radek:	it has to do with physics
[16:07]	Andrew Linden:	xstorm sure, where is your pic?
[16:08]	Alexia Leborski:	Hello :))
[16:08]	s got	no idea what happened to Aric Linden, or what he did.
[16:08]	Rex Cronon:	andrew, r u still interested to know what is worst avout viewer 2.0?
[16:08]	Rex Cronon:	hi
[16:09]	Rex Cronon:	about viewer*
[16:09]	xstorm Radek:	Havok is forming that ball of Doom every time
[16:09]	Andrew Linden:	No Rex, I've heard enough complaints about V2. I've yet to track down a Linden who is in charge of the V2 UI.
[16:10]	Arawn Spitteler:	The real reason for Secrecy in its development
[16:10]	Andrew Linden:	I did talk to Richard Linden about it today (he's a dev who does a lot of the UI/viewer foundation work)
[16:10]	Andrew Linden:	but we kept the conversation friendly -- I didn't get any names.
[16:10]	Alexia Leborski:	I hope I am not interupting but I hate Viewer 2
[16:10]	Simon Linden:	xstorm - what do you mean by that? It looks like a bunch of cut/twisted things stuffed into the same space,
[16:10]	Alexia Leborski:	it is too difficult to navigate
[16:11]	Arawn Spitteler	uses Snowglobe, mostly
[16:11]	Rex Cronon:	the inability of users to decide what pages to view or not tops them all IMO:)
[16:11]	xstorm Radek:	the rezzer will rez it out in one spot and not move it all over from the one spot
[16:11]	Rex Cronon:	talking about shared media:)
[16:11]	Jonathan Yap:	Andrew, I wonder if there is some chance of haivng SVC-1167 implemented this year, once the ban on new functions is lifted?
[16:12]	xstorm Radek:	it will for a ball like that many a time
[16:12]	JessicaHansem Arun:	/oi
[16:12]	xstorm Radek:	and the temp out is a killer
[16:12]	Arawn Spitteler:	Why not detail, on SVC-1167?
[16:12]	Andrew Linden:	xstorm what is the significance of your pic? I got a pic -- it looks like a big ball of prims
[16:12]	Jonathan Yap:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1167
[16:12]	Script function	to return objects
[16:12]	JessicaHansem Arun:	hi
[16:12]	xstorm Radek:	is not the program setup to temp out a prim one prim at a time ?
[16:12]	Rex Cronon:	hi
[16:13]	Simon Linden:	Hello
[16:13]	Jonathan Yap:	That jira is to return non-temp objects from withing a script
[16:13]	JessicaHansem Arun:	what your do
[16:13]	JessicaHansem Arun:	?
[16:13]	xstorm Radek:	no script is used
[16:14]	Jonathan Yap:	I just came across a need for it today
[16:14]	Simon Linden:	I wonder how much our internal support people would like a llReturnObject() function
[16:14]	Simon Linden:	They have to do a lot of cleanup work
[16:14]	xstorm Radek:	:-)
[16:15]	xstorm Radek:	a temp out prim per prim timing may be better
[16:15]	xstorm Radek:	then a mass temp out
[16:15]	Jonathan Yap:	xstorm, I am not clear what you are suggesting
[16:16]	Andrew Linden:	Jonathan, I can't promise SVC-1167, but I'll keep it in mind.
[16:16]	xstorm Radek:	well think what happens when people in store have temp rezzers and the rez more them 200 prims
[16:16]	Jonathan Yap:	Okay, thank you Andrew; I think a lot of people would benefit from it
[16:17]	Andrew Linden:	I definitely wouldn't try to tackle that before C# and script versioning is available
[16:17]	xstorm Radek:	to have more then one prim temp out at the same time lags a sim
[16:17]	Jonathan Yap:	Yes, I guessed as much
[16:17]	Andrew Linden:	it would be too much work to hash out with Babbage's team.
[16:17]	Rex Cronon:	there is a way to return objects
[16:17]	Andrew Linden:	Perhaps Babbage could build up a list of approved script features and I could help implement some of them.
[16:17]	Rex Cronon:	u move it out of the sim:)
[16:18]	Jonathan Yap:	I will try to catch him at an OH and bring it up
[16:18]	Andrew Linden:	I've got some news regarding Office Hours...
[16:19]	xstorm Radek:	:-)
[16:19]	xstorm Radek:	good i gome
[16:19]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Cancelled again? :-)
[16:19]	xstorm Radek:	hope
[16:19]	xstorm Radek:	oh please no
[16:19]	Andrew Linden:	I just found out right before this meeting that I'll have to be attending a short daily meeting at 11:45
[16:19]	xstorm Radek:	i love this OH
[16:19]	xstorm Radek:	:-(
[16:19]	Andrew Linden:	which means I'm probably going to have to move Tuesday's OH timing.
[16:20]	Simon Linden:	or cut it short
[16:20]	xstorm Radek:	thats a shame
[16:20]	Andrew Linden:	I'm not sure what to do yet, but I'm going to think about it for a bit.
[16:20]	xstorm Radek:	i will miss them
[16:20]	Andrew Linden:	Next Tues I've got to take off anyway, so I should be able to attend the OH from home
[16:20]	Andrew Linden:	and we can talk about it more then
[16:20]	xstorm Radek:	was going to have one meeting film
[16:22]	Andrew Linden:	Also, looks like I won't be doing quite as much maintenance work soon, it isn't clear yet.
[16:22]	xstorm Radek:	can you say if this will happen to all OH with all the lindens now ?
[16:22]	Andrew Linden:	No, I'm just talking about these OH with Simon and I.
[16:22]	Andrew Linden:	Er... Tuesday in particular.
[16:22]	xstorm Radek:	now that all the companys will be in back of firewalls ?
[16:23]	Andrew Linden:	This hour on Fridays will continue at this hour.
[16:23]	xstorm Radek:	i find it sad thats all so many less lindens in world
[16:23]	Techwolf Lupindo:	I'me surprised there is on at this time. Late fridays, folks tend to jump ship for the weekend, not talk work.
[16:23]	Andrew Linden:	Lessee... Sebastean, is he here?
[16:24]	Andrew Linden:	No, I guess not.
[16:24]	xstorm Radek:	i do not see him
[16:24]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Not online.
[16:24]	xstorm Radek:	he is the horse
[16:24]	Andrew Linden:	Anyway, I looked into the claims of PosJump not working (objects returned for off-world)
[16:24]	Andrew Linden:	but was unable to reproduce after three tries
[16:25]	Andrew Linden:	I'm going to try one more time with Sebastean's specific region, but will have to get to that next week.
[16:25]	xstorm Radek:	some times you need to be in the sim it happens in
[16:25]	Andrew Linden:	xstorm, you're talking about the PosJump return?
[16:25]	Andrew Linden:	You've seen it?
[16:26]	xstorm Radek:	i found that out in the sim i was testing in Aditi
[16:26]	Andrew Linden:	What is the ratio of success/failure of PosJump from your experience?
[16:26]	xstorm Radek:	but now i can not get it to happen again
[16:26]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm...
[16:26]	xstorm Radek:	so i can not pinpoint the problem
[16:27]	xstorm Radek:	just know it can happen
[16:27]	xstorm Radek:	its like the old sit bug going off world at times
[16:27]	Andrew Linden:	It occurred to me that the problem could happen when PosJump is trying to move the object into a parcel for which it is not allowed.
[16:27]	Ardy Lay:	Oscar did some investigation and found that it it possible to use it "incorrectly". In other words, it doesn't work as expected under all conditions. Don't know if that has been changed since then or not.
[16:28]	Ardy Lay:	We were just going up and down.
[16:28]	Andrew Linden:	However, I assumed that special case was not happening for Sebastean's event.
[16:28]	xstorm Radek:	i think that too
[16:28]	Ardy Lay:	Sometimes down only went part way and other time the prim got returned for going off world.
[16:28]	xstorm Radek:	i got the offworld most of the time
[16:28]	Andrew Linden:	Where "down" refers to a big jump along the Z axis to lower Z-values?
[16:29]	Ardy Lay:	Yes
[16:29]	Ardy Lay:	Z values
[16:29]	xstorm Radek:	yes
[16:29]	Andrew Linden:	Ok. Yeah Sebastean indicated that it was reproducing for large Z jumps.
[16:29]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Hi there
[16:29]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Speak of the devil.
[16:30]	lonetorus Habilis	synchronizes with real time, "hey ppl"
[16:30]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Well, I'm not -quite- that evil.
[16:30]	Techwolf Lupindo:	hehe
[16:30]	xstorm Radek:	there he is :[-)
[16:30]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Sorry I'm late folks :)
[16:30]	Andrew Linden:	We were just talking about the PosJump failure
[16:30]	xstorm Radek:	we are talking about you :-)
[16:30]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	How did the test go with that Andrew?
[16:30]	Andrew Linden:	I haven't been able to test it the one last time yet. I'll try next week.
[16:30]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	No worries :)
[16:31]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Ambroff Linden, a plant!
[16:31]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Nice to meet you :)
[16:31]	Ambroff Linden	waves
[16:31]	Rex Cronon:	hi
[16:31]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	You remind me of the flower from the Brave Little Toaster cartoon.
[16:31]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Hmm...do horses eat flowers....
[16:31]	xstorm Radek:	lol Andrew why not use Trendone sim on the Aditi server seems every thing has been going wrong in that test sim
[16:31]	Ambroff Linden:	*gasp*
[16:32]	Alexia Leborski:	LOL
[16:32]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	As Rizzo the Rat said, "Never eat singing (or talking) fruit." I figure that goes for flowers too.
[16:32]	lonetorus Habilis:	andrew, did you get my email? was unable to find your addy on official ll web pages
[16:32]	xstorm Radek:	lol
[16:33]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Have other people been having the same issues with PosJump?
[16:33]	Andrew Linden:	Oh yes lonetorus, I got it. But I haven't been able to investigate yet.
[16:33]	xstorm Radek:	poor Ambroff you remind me back in 2006 the very big flower that was next to Blues Office
[16:33]	lonetorus Habilis:	ok, no worries, im sure you will get around to it, after all i lived with the bug for a very long time XD
[16:34]	xstorm Radek:	i think they removed it back in the start of 2008
[16:34]	lonetorus Habilis:	so surely i can live with it a bit more
[16:34]	Andrew Linden:	lonetorus can't receive IM's via email.
[16:34]	Alexia Leborski:	maybe Ambroff just resurrected it from the dumpster
[16:35]	Rex Cronon:	i have a little question regarding llRotLookAt( rotation target, float strength, float damping )
[16:35]	Andrew Linden:	Sebastean, I think Ardy and xstorm were saying they've seen PosJump failures.
[16:35]	Sebastean Steamweaver	ods
[16:35]	Ambroff Linden:	heh. no I never saw that one
[16:35]	Sebastean Steamweaver	nods*
[16:35]	Andrew Linden:	Go ahead Rex.
[16:35]	Rex Cronon:	what r the min/max values for both strength and damping
[16:36]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm...
[16:36]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Damping is probably going to be 0.02 for a min. I'm not aware of a max.
[16:36]	Rex Cronon:	it depends on mass
[16:37]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	It's a shame llRotLookAt doesn't work properly on non-phys objects.
[16:38]	Andrew Linden:	The min damping timescale is two physics timesteps
[16:38]	Andrew Linden:	so 2 * 1/45 sec
[16:38]	Rex Cronon:	for non-physicals u have llSetLinkPrimitiveParamsFast:)
[16:38]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	0.04?
[16:38]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Hmm
[16:38]	Andrew Linden:	er... the min timescale of motion
[16:39]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Actually now that you mention it, yeah.
[16:39]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	I remember not being able to get it to go below 0.045
[16:40]	xstorm Radek:	Andrew may i ask you some thing after ? about how the physics server renders the shapes over a plain and then one thats filled with objects?
[16:41]	Andrew Linden:	damping range is [0.0001, 1.0]
[16:41]	Ambroff Linden:	I have to bounce guys. Later!
[16:41]	xstorm Radek:	laterz
[16:41]	Rex Cronon:	tc ambroff
[16:42]	Andrew Linden:	sure xstorm ask. but I didn't understand that preamble
[16:43]	xstorm Radek:	ok when many people are doing there tests i have found out its in a sim thats flat like a sandbox
[16:43]	xstorm Radek:	you do not get the same test doing it that way
[16:43]	Andrew Linden:	What is being tested?
[16:44]	Rex Cronon:	weird thing is that u set it to 3no rotation takes place. 2.5 works
[16:44]	xstorm Radek:	if you do a test in a sim filled with a city or ojects you get other thing happen
[16:44]	xstorm Radek:	any thing from crossings to the physics of a rezzer
[16:45]	Andrew Linden:	3 what? 2.5 what? What are the units of those numbers?
[16:45]	xstorm Radek:	even there kids role play war stuff
[16:45]	Ardy Lay:	xstorm, Lusk and Perry are kinda built up and available for you to do testing in.
[16:46]	Ardy Lay:	On Aditi, that is. :-)
[16:46]	xstorm Radek:	thank you Ardy :-) for sim crossings i found its very bad there
[16:46]	xstorm Radek:	sim can even crash
[16:47]	xstorm Radek:	plus i have been seeing other bugs
[16:47]	Andrew Linden:	xstorm, you're talking about llRotLookAt()? and 3 or 2.5 are one of the arguments thereof?
[16:47]	Ardy Lay:	I generally don't have serious issue with crossings but I am not carying more than 12 scripts at any time. Usually 8.
[16:47]	xstorm Radek:	and thats using Second Life 2.0.1 (203797) Apr 21 2010 03:03:52 (Second Life Release)
[16:48]	xstorm Radek:	my beta no longer works
[16:48]	xstorm Radek:	wb Arawn
[16:48]	xstorm Radek:	:-)
[16:48]	xstorm Radek:	i will shut up now :-)
[16:49]	Andrew Linden:	Well, unfortunately I didn't understand the question.
[16:49]	Arawn Spitteler:	My connection dissappeared; BetaLate than never
[16:49]	xstorm Radek:	:-S
[16:49]	Andrew Linden:	When something is set to 3 you get no rotation, but when that something is set to 2.5 some sort of rotation happens?
[16:50]	Rex Cronon:	yes
[16:50]	Arawn Spitteler:	On SL2, 1.7 FPS
[16:50]	Andrew Linden:	And... what exactly is being set to 3? (or 2.5?)
[16:50]	Rex Cronon:	for damping
[16:50]	xstorm Radek:	Rex that sounds like the rotation bug i got some time back so i used new doors
[16:52]	Andrew Linden:	Ouch Arawn. That is your client's render FPS?
[16:52]	Twisted Laws:	don't know what you are rotating, but a useful use is llRotLookAt(rot,1/llVecMag(llGetVel()),1);
[16:53]	Arawn Spitteler:	It might not be, Ping Sim is 516 msec, which is about half a second. It could be connection lag.
[16:53]	Arawn Spitteler:	My Client Lag is normally 4
[16:53]	Arawn Spitteler:	4FPS, rather than 2
[16:53]	Ardy Lay:	Keep in mind that "ping" in the statistics floater is calculated in the render loop.
[16:54]	Rex Cronon:	there is some(or more than one) person at this table that gives me a fps of 1.2:(
[16:54]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, if your client is running slow for the graphics pipeline, then your ping will measure about 1/FPS, even if you're only 1ms real network ping away.
[16:54]	Arawn Spitteler:	Bandwidth is close to zero
[16:54]	Ardy Lay:	And losing your network connection does not reduce your rendering framerate.
[16:55]	xstorm Radek:	thats odd
[16:55]	Arawn Spitteler:	On SL2, how do I block rendering avies?
[16:55]	Jonathan Yap:	I get a faster ping value when I issue the commend from a command line prompt
[16:55]	Ardy Lay:	Is your developer menu visible?
[16:56]	Ardy Lay:	Jonathan, that's right. Expected.
[16:56]	Ardy Lay:	That's ICMP echo
[16:56]	Arawn Spitteler:	That was it, by not rendering avatars, I'm soaring at 12FPS
[16:57]	Jonathan Yap:	So the Statistics ping is some internally calculated value from the sim Ardy?
[16:57]	Ardy Lay:	20 Ruths will change your frame rate significant;y. Try it some time.
[16:57]	Arawn Spitteler	doesn't see the table, either
[16:57]	Andrew Linden:	Yes Jonathan. It is a "custom" ping measure that is part of our LLCircuit C++ code.
[16:57]	Twisted Laws:	show updates shows arawn and sebastean have a lot of updates
[16:57]	Ardy Lay:	Jonathan, yes. It's don in the render loop too so a long frame render time gets added to the "measured" delay.
[16:58]	Jonathan Yap:	Thanks, good to know.
[16:58]	Arawn Spitteler:	How're we to distinguish Client from Connection Lag?
[16:58]	Ardy Lay:	Basically, ignore that statistic. :-)
[16:58]	Rex Cronon:	there r to terms that come to my mind "prim w****" and "bling t***". but, who knows maybe i am wrong
[16:59]	Ardy Lay:	Rex, language skills go a long way when trying to get along with others.
[16:59]	Arawn Spitteler:	Just shut down avatar rendering, and join the human race.
[16:59]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, ignore the stat. If you're getting choppy rendering, then it is almost always render lag.
[16:59]	Rex Cronon:	i said: maybe i am wrong, didn't i:)
[16:59]	Arawn Spitteler:	Viewers should be able to shut down rendering, of expensive people, according to resource availability.
[17:00]	xstorm Radek:	sorry i like looking like a rat at times makes me feel better on my bad days
[17:00]	Andrew Linden:	Yes, I think the viewer should get that capability.
[17:00]	Ardy Lay:	Rex, I have quite a few prims on me. I do make a dent in frame rates on lower class hardware.
[17:00]	Jonathan Yap:	Arawn, if you mute someone (which turns them grey) does that shut down rendering, more or less?
[17:00]	Rex Cronon:	u could show some compassion, couldn't u:)
[17:01]	Ardy Lay:	Calling me a prim whore is not likely to get you any compassion.
[17:01]	Rex Cronon:	and it might not necessarly be your fault, there is more than one person here
[17:01]	xstorm Radek:	i bet i have a very high rendering cost but i will never give up looking this way when im sick
[17:02]	Andrew Linden:	You could sit away from the table, maybe facing out and just rely on the text log.
[17:02]	Ardy Lay:	Each of us had a rendering cost. Andrew is the easiest to render.
[17:02]	Ardy Lay:	I do sit away from the table so you don't have to render me if you don't want to.
[17:02]	Rex Cronon:	i just need too look at the water
[17:02]	xstorm Radek:	i have no problems with my server rendering a image
[17:02]	Andrew Linden:	Ok, so I've got to go... time to start drinking.
[17:02]	Rex Cronon:	tc andrew
[17:03]	Ardy Lay:	Andrew, have a nice weekend.
[17:03]	xstorm Radek:	?
[17:03]	Rex Cronon:	than is not u ardy
[17:03]	Jonathan Yap:	Have a lovely weekend free from work Andrew
[17:03]	Alexia Leborski:	Bye Andrew...TC
[17:03]	xstorm Radek:	be safe Andrew
[17:03]	Andrew Linden:	See you all later.
[17:03]	Twisted Laws:	bye
[17:03]	xstorm Radek:	ill bug Simon'
[17:03]	Elisha Richez:	dang im late
[17:03]	xstorm Radek:	:-)
[17:03]	Alexia Leborski:	I am heading out, too...Catch you later...Bye
[17:03]	Psi Merlin:	Byr all - have a good weekend.
[17:04]	Simon Linden:	Bye all ... thanks for coming
[17:04]	Alexia Leborski:	B-bye!!! :D
[17:04]	Rex Cronon:	tc everybody
[17:04]	Rex Cronon:	have fun
[17:04]	xstorm Radek:	laterz every one
[17:04]	Sebastean Steamweaver:	Take care all :)

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