User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2010 06 29

Transcript

[10:59]	Bronson Blackadder:	its a Linden!
[10:59]	Ardy Lay:	Hi Andrew
[11:00]	Andrew Linden:	Hello
[11:00]	Bronson Blackadder:	omg and another!
[11:00]	mudbug Cooperstone:	hello andrew
[11:00]	Ardy Lay:	Hi Simon
[11:00]	Simon Linden:	hello
[11:00]	Qie Niangao:	greetings, Andrew, Simon, everybody
[11:00]	Dale Glass:	hi :-)
[11:00]	Ardy Lay:	What are the chances of this region getting updated in the next hour?
[11:00]	Liisa Runo:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Beta_Server/1.40 #1.40.2
[11:00]	Welcome to	Linden office hours
[11:01]	reddot99 Republic:	andrew, i got a response from falcon, he's starting work on it today
[11:01]	reddot99 Republic:	it being raycasting
[11:01]	mudbug Cooperstone:	ty simon
[11:01]	Andrew Linden:	reddot99, he's starting work on what?
[11:01]	Simon Linden:	I don't know the rollout schedule, but I think we don't usually do things like that at this time of day
[11:02]	Andrew Linden:	oh right
[11:02]	Simon Linden:	sure mudbug
[11:03]	reddot99 Republic:	also said a sim with raycasting may be ready to test with on aditi by the weekend
[11:03]	Andrew Linden:	I don't know the current status of the server-1.40 deploy, but I thought they were getting close to actually doing it
[11:03]	Simon Linden:	The 1.40.2 pilot roll was going out this morning, I think
[11:03]	Ardy Lay:	Looked like a pilot roll was scheduled for this morning.
[11:04]	Ardy Lay:	Can't follow Lil in the blog. That's down.
[11:04]	Simon Linden:	Looks like it was done by 10:00
[11:04]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, I think you're right. I'm reading an old email saying that was the schedule
[11:04]	Ardy Lay:	Ah, you didn't get included then?
[11:04]	Andrew Linden:	ah ok. yeah today was going to be another pilot
[11:04]	Simon Linden:	odd ... these Linden regions used to be part of the pilot
[11:04]	Andrew Linden:	everything will be deployed Thursday
[11:05]	SL Status:	Support Planned maintenance - Live Chat and Tickets
[11:05]	Andrew Linden:	This just in... server-1.42 pilot is tentatively planned for Aug 9th
[11:06]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Whats in 1.42?
[11:06]	reddot99 Republic:	everything, lol
[11:06]	Liisa Runo:	see the link i pasted above
[11:06]	Andrew Linden:	nothing yet... they haven't merged any work for it yet
[11:06]	Andrew Linden:	but it will start soon
[11:06]	reddot99 Republic:	1.42 needs to have everything,
[11:06]	Liisa Runo:	oops, i read wrong
[11:07]	Liisa Runo:	no release noted for 1.42 yest
[11:07]	Liisa Runo:	notes*
[11:07]	Andrew Linden:	however, I just finished fixing SVC-93 internally and hope to get that into server-1.42...
[11:07]	ROTATION and	llSetRot incorrectly implemented for child prims
[11:07]	Andrew Linden:	oh bummer... code freeze is July 9th. I doubt I could get through the QA queue in time.
[11:08]	Simon Linden:	I hope to have the multi-threaded region crossing code turned on again for 1.42
[11:08]	reddot99 Republic:	does that mean our child rotation scripts all need to be redone?
[11:08]	Liisa Runo:	i can imagine how much content will break, but i dont mind, i can always edit my scripts to make them work
[11:08]	Simon Linden:	FYI I just heard that not all the regions were updated this morning due to hitting our time limit. More regions will be updated this evening
[11:09]	Andrew Linden:	no reddot99, I won't be breaking any content this time around. I'm adding some new llSetPrimitiveParams() modes.
[11:09]	Liisa Runo:	:)
[11:09]	reddot99 Republic:	ah, that works better
[11:09]	reddot99 Republic:	somebody was asking me to tell you to add a PRIM_SOUND integer to the primparams lists
[11:10]	Andrew Linden:	they'll have to file a jira and document their proposal
[11:10]	Rex Cronon:	hello everybody
[11:10]	reddot99 Republic:	ok,
[11:10]	Simon Linden:	hey Rex
[11:10]	Rex Cronon:	hi simon, andrew
[11:11]	Andrew Linden:	other news... what is next on my plate:
[11:11]	reddot99 Republic:	megaprims?
[11:12]	Andrew Linden:	I'm planning on fixing some performance problems with the physics collisions with the terrain (for Falcon), and then probably start working on region crossing bugs (working towards )
[11:12]	Ardy Lay:	I would settle for kiloprims.
[11:12]	Andrew Linden:	er... towards SVC-22
[11:12]	Vehicles crossing	region borders aren't always treated as vehicles and can get incorrectly returned if the destination parcel is no-entry or parcel-full
[11:12]	reddot99 Republic:	lol, storm sounds
[11:13]	Andrew Linden:	turns out megaprims depend on fixing prim-encroachment, and prim-encroachment depends on the same stuff that will help me fix SVC-22
[11:13]	reddot99 Republic:	oh hey, lol
[11:14]	Ardy Lay:	5 year plan begins to come togeather?
[11:14]	Andrew Linden:	that's the plan anyway. We'll see how it goes.
[11:14]	Liisa Runo:	(btw: Simon, the meeter is still refusing to be copied ;))
[11:14]	Simon Linden:	hmm, let me take a look....
[11:15]	Rex Cronon:	it has copyright problems:)
[11:16]	Simon Linden:	gawd, what horrible properties tools .... :o
[11:16]	Ardy Lay:	Yeah
[11:16]	reddot99 Republic:	on veiwer 2 simon?
[11:16]	Rex Cronon:	btw. i have a question regarding linked prims
[11:16]	Simon Linden:	ok, try taking a copy now
[11:17]	Andrew Linden:	go ahead and ask your question Rex
[11:17]	Bronson Blackadder:	nope
[11:17]	Rex Cronon:	why can't a prim in a linked set get closer to root
[11:18]	Liisa Runo:	v2 dont have the nice button to set all perms in the object? nice shiny button in 1.23
[11:18]	xstorm Radek:	molly linden did a great honor to the lindens that was layed off
[11:18]	Andrew Linden:	"closer to root"? I'm not sure I understand Rex. Could you rephrase taht?
[11:18]	xstorm Radek:	lots of bears
[11:18]	Rex Cronon:	if child prim was 10^3, and if is made 0.1^3
[11:18]	Rex Cronon:	it can no longer get to root
[11:18]	Simon Linden:	I just make it for sale $0
[11:19]	Rex Cronon:	i understand if u couldn
[11:19]	Rex Cronon:	u couldn't move it further, but why not allowing it to get closer?
[11:19]	Liisa Runo:	i dont buy no-modify stuff, ever :P
[11:20]	xstorm Radek:	they best not get rid of any more lindens
[11:20]	Andrew Linden:	Rex, when you tried to move the child prim the set would not link? Or the system would fail to move the prim?
[11:20]	Rex Cronon:	was already linked
[11:20]	Tillie Ariantho:	Yah, I dont want a bear if the attached Linden vanishes then. O.o
[11:21]	Rex Cronon:	i shrunk whole set and moved closer to root, but the last prim after shrinking wouldn't want to move close to root
[11:21]	Andrew Linden:	Rex, were you using the viewer UI to move the child prims within the link set? Or were you using LSL calls?
[11:21]	Rex Cronon:	scripts
[11:21]	Rex Cronon:	script*
[11:21]	Andrew Linden:	Rex, based on what I've heard I wouldn't expect that to happen -- sounds like a bug (if you can reproduce it for me).
[11:22]	Rex Cronon:	i already found a solution to overcome that
[11:22]	Rex Cronon:	i can reproduce it
[11:22]	Rex Cronon:	i tried it with the free resize script in th wiki and gave the same result
[11:23]	xstorm Radek:	so much for second life is where the heart is
[11:23]	Ardy Lay:	If an edit to reduce the size of a linked prim breaks linking distance rules the server reverts the edit?
[11:24]	Rex Cronon:	the distance between root and child was less than 10m
[11:24]	xstorm Radek:	you can write a script to over come the limit
[11:25]	Rex Cronon:	i deleted that, as it was useless to me. i will try to make a new version
[11:25]	Andrew Linden:	Ardy is right, but getting closer to root typically makes the object more linkable... unless the child prim is bridging some other prims that would otherwise be unlinkable if that prim were to get too close.
[11:25]	Ardy Lay:	He may be not releasing edit select an his move is getting blocked by the revert.
[11:25]	Andrew Linden:	So I guess that would be my first theory... the movement of the child prim must be causing the linkability of the total object to fail -- so the move fails instead.
[11:26]	Rex Cronon:	there was only one child prim left, that was less than 10m away from root, but because it was too small it didn't want to move
[11:26]	Simon Linden:	yeah, there can be some unexpected dependancies there
[11:26]	Liisa Runo:	should simplify the whole link distance thing and make it 65meter from the root, not caring about other prims or sizes...
[11:26]	Rex Cronon:	i am making poetry. lol
[11:26]	reddot99 Republic:	motion may have been within margin of error
[11:26]	reddot99 Republic:	is there one?
[11:27]	Andrew Linden:	ack -- yeah thanks for reminding me -- there is some numerical error around the linkability test algorithm
[11:28]	reddot99 Republic:	perhaps you ought to fix that while messing with linked rotations, if its in the same area
[11:28]	Rex Cronon:	i will try make a new version to show this problme
[11:28]	Liisa Runo:	...and while at it, remove the limit that agent can be offsetted from prim, it serve no purpose
[11:28]	xstorm Radek:	oh no not link rotation again
[11:28]	Qie Niangao:	actually... moving closer to root could still be moving that little child prim *further* from some other little child prim, and ... couldn't that break linkability?
[11:29]	reddot99 Republic:	andrew suggested that i think
[11:29]	Andrew Linden:	right Qie. How many prims in the linkset Rex?
[11:29]	Qie Niangao:	oh, sorry
[11:29]	Andrew Linden:	Only two? or more?
[11:29]	Rex Cronon:	over 180 prims:)
[11:30]	xstorm Radek:	? 180
[11:30]	xstorm Radek:	use a script to link them
[11:30]	reddot99 Republic:	yeah, sounds like lots of possible interdependicies, it might have tried to move them in an order that caused linkablity to fail
[11:30]	office hours	is half over
[11:31]	Andrew Linden:	Yup. My guess would be that the child prim in question is needed to bridge the linkability of some further out prims.
[11:31]	Andrew Linden:	Put another bridge prim in there and make it invisible perhaps.
[11:31]	Ardy Lay:	What you see on screen often does NOT include the a server edit revert. Making another change without refreshing the select can be misleading.
[11:31]	reddot99 Republic:	or reverse the order of the script moving the prims
[11:32]	Liisa Runo:	is there a reason we need to do these tricks? why cant link distance just be stable number?
[11:32]	Rex Cronon:	adrew it was the only prim left that didn't want to move closer
[11:32]	Andrew Linden:	what should the stable link distance be?
[11:32]	reddot99 Republic:	256, heh,
[11:32]	Rex Cronon:	:)
[11:32]	Liisa Runo:	it is 64meters with tricks now, so ill say 64meters
[11:32]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm... well that sounds like a bug Rex. Perhaps you miseed one prim way on the outside?
[11:32]	Liisa Runo:	just remove the tricks
[11:33]	reddot99 Republic:	i'd love to be able to link an entire sim together
[11:33]	Rex Cronon:	this is what i was trying to resize:)
[11:33]	xstorm Radek:	thats link distance will have been 40 m if they had moved prim size limit to 40 m and no bigger
[11:33]	Andrew Linden:	I bet you would reddot99. I'd bet you'd like to take that entire sim to inventory too.
[11:34]	Andrew Linden:	All 500MB of it into one asset.
[11:34]	Andrew Linden:	And that is if you're being stingy on scripts.
[11:34]	Ardy Lay:	Yeah, those files get big.
[11:34]	Rex Cronon:	i first resized it 5 times, and next resized it by 0.2:)
[11:34]	reddot99 Republic:	lol, more linking it in case of parts getting returned, easier to put a puzzle back together if its large chucks
[11:35]	xstorm Radek:	Andrew i will n ot tell you how many sims i have had in my inventory over the years
[11:35]	Andrew Linden:	Good. I don't really want to know.
[11:35]	Andrew Linden:	BRB (2 min)
[11:35]	xstorm Radek:	;-)
[11:36]	Ardy Lay:	I don't think people realise how much data a single prim represents inworld.
[11:37]	reddot99 Republic:	depends if it uses vertex data or the parameters to store it
[11:37]	Dale Glass:	prims are big, yeah. Making bots that track large amounts of them is annoying
[11:37]	Ardy Lay:	Parameters
[11:37]	Ardy Lay:	But how many parameters are there to a prim?
[11:37]	xstorm Radek:	people do not realise how much a persons heart break when all there work and the things they love is no more
[11:37]	Simon Linden:	FWIW I just made the polling object available ... it's on the fence corner if anyone wants a copy
[11:37]	Andrew Linden:	/me is back
[11:37]	Rex Cronon:	wb
[11:38]	Simon Linden:	It's a work in progress ... I was going to make it read questions from a notecard but haven't gotten there yet
[11:38]	xstorm Radek:	wb Andrew
[11:38]	reddot99 Republic:	i might try to do that simon,
[11:38]	Simon Linden:	... and the questions vs. button size problem is still there
[11:38]	Liisa Runo:	we pay a lot to have them prims here, i believe LL have enough money to keep them in HDD, disc space is cheap
[11:38]	Simon Linden:	The sensor code might be useful
[11:38]	Ardy Lay:	It's inserting and removing them from simulations that clobers stuff.
[11:39]	Rex Cronon:	it should take around 64k to store all the info about 256linked prims
[11:39]	reddot99 Republic:	including contents?
[11:40]	Rex Cronon:	excluding inventory. but invenotry made only of UUIDs
[11:40]	xstorm Radek:	12 sims of my work is gone now and 1 is left :-)
[11:40]	Andrew Linden:	The killer is scripts in object contents.
[11:40]	Andrew Linden:	Scripts are stored in the object asset, rather thean their own.
[11:41]	Simon Linden:	fyi Andrew and I have to go to an 11:45 meeting
[11:41]	reddot99 Republic:	grr, got tped away for something trivial,
[11:41]	Ardy Lay:	One script can take up all that 64K you assume, Rex.
[11:41]	Slee Mayo:	oh, does anyone know if there's a site that shows the accurate active sim count in sl?
[11:41]	reddot99 Republic:	put questions and answers in the top part of the dialog, and the rest is A,B,C,D for choices. simon
[11:41]	xstorm Radek:	thank you for all your hard work Andrew and Simon
[11:42]	Simon Linden:	That sounds like the best (and maybe only) way to handle that, reddot
[11:42]	Rex Cronon:	i already tried it, ardy:)
[11:42]	Ardy Lay:	Slee, this work? http://www.gridsurvey.com/
[11:42]	reddot99 Republic:	its what i've done most times i've made similar things
[11:42]	Slee Mayo:	cool, close enough, thanks
[11:43]	Andrew Linden:	I'm not even sure how accurate our own maps of the active regions are.
[11:44]	reddot99 Republic:	i dont think you could update often enough to reflect that
[11:44]	Liisa Runo:	if you log in with governor, dont try to display your lands, will crash your client :P
[11:44]	Ardy Lay:	Hehe
[11:45]	xstorm Radek:	Huggies!
[11:45]	Simon Linden:	I have to run - thanks everyone for coming
[11:45]	reddot99 Republic:	simon, meter says its no copy no mod
[11:45]	Rex Cronon:	tc simon
[11:45]	Simon Linden:	can you buy one for $0?
[11:46]	Andrew Linden:	Sigh... I think I hate SL V2 whenever I try to read IM's...
[11:46]	reddot99 Republic:	thats the no copy no mod one
[11:46]	Liisa Runo:	simon will fix the perms next time, with decent client that can do it
[11:46]	mudbug Cooperstone:	nice to met you simon
[11:46]	Bronson Blackadder:	lol
[11:46]	Simon Linden:	:) I'll get it fixed someday
[11:46]	Simon Linden:	Gotta run, bye!
[11:46]	Chaley May:	bye
[11:46]	Qie Niangao:	Thanks Simon and Andrew
[11:46]	reddot99 Republic:	that reminds me of a bug to show you, lol, with mod perms i can change permissions of object contents
[11:47]	SL Status:	Inventory Database Maintence Wednesday June 30th 5:30am
[11:47]	mudbug Cooperstone:	:) thank you andrew
[11:47]	Ardy Lay:	Bye Andrew
[11:47]	Andrew Linden:	See you all later.

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