This meeting was held on June 02nd, 2011

Agenda

Introducing Alain.

Updates

Second Life Server (main channel)
- This has Kelly's "maint-server"
- https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Server/11#11.05.17.230139

BlueSteel RC Channel
- This channel contains the "friendship" project.
- Basically updates for the People API.
- Modified the capabilities of the People API to handle adding/removing friendships.
- Included are other infrastructural changes that are generic in nature.
- Fix to allow services to start properly after deployment of new code.
- https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_BlueSteel/11#11.05.31.231546

LeTigre RC Channel
- This is now Kelly's "mono2-performance" project.
  - Third time is the charm?
- https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_LeTigre/11#11.05.31.231545

Magnum RC Channel
- This is "mesh-prep"
- lLCastRay() is disabled.
- Physics changes.
- https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_Magnum/11#11.05.31.231501

Snack RC Channel
- Snack is closed.

Upcoming Stuff

Group Chat pile-on this afternoon.
- https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/GroupChatTest

Transcript

Transcript of Oskar Linden's Beta Server Office Hour for June 02nd, 2011:

[15:00] Destiny: Ave: Oskar, , laguri te salutant.
[15:00] Linden: It's: cuckoo for Coco-Puffs!
[15:01] Linden: thee: Oskar
[15:01] Linden: hey: everyone
[15:01] Linden: hi:
[15:01] Destiny: good: grief, we seem to be outnumberd by Lindens... No biteing.
[15:01] Uggla: hiya: oskar
[15:01] Linden: Ave,: Salutes te morituri
[15:01] Soderstrom: heya:
[15:01] Scharf: Good: morning everybody.
[15:02] Destiny: *chuckles*:
[15:02] Greeter: Maestro: Linden has arrived! (Or, returned?)
[15:02] Destiny: O'im: not dead yet.
[15:02] Linden: You: got better?
[15:02] Linden: my: machine is lagging out a bit here
[15:03] Cronon: greetings: all
[15:03] expected behavior:
[15:03] Destiny: actually: I feel much better.
[15:03] Linden: ansi: can you turn of fyour pacifier please :-)
[15:04] Linden: hmm.: my machine is unresponsive
[15:04] Linden: Did: you say please?
[15:04] is it: plugged in?
[15:05] Linden: it: is plugged in for sure
[15:05] Uggla: did: you clear cache between versions?
[15:05] Linden: -p:
[15:05] power on?:
[15:05] are you: using the correct mouse and keyboard? ;-)
[15:05] Linden: ok.: there we go. feels a bit better now
[15:05] Stonecutter: have: SL installed?
[15:05] Cronon: wireless: keyboard?
[15:05] Linden: here: is the agenda link
[15:05] Linden: https//wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group:
[15:05] Linden: First: up is introducing Alain Linden
[15:06] Destiny: Did: you turn it off and on again?
[15:06] Linden: Alain,: tell these good folks hi
[15:06] Linden: hi:
[15:06] Linden: ;-):
[15:06] Cronon: hi:
[15:06] hi Alain:
[15:06] Linden: who: are you and waht do you do?
[15:06] hi Alain:
[15:06] Neurocam: Hello: Alain
[15:06] Uggla: *waves*:
[15:06] Scharf: Hello: Alain.
[15:06] Avro: bonjour: Alan
[15:07] Linden: no: voice
[15:07] Destiny: Welcome: to the nuthouse, Alain
[15:07] Linden: heh:
[15:07] Linden: alain: has been working on the group chat fixes
[15:07] Linden: he's: been doing lots of performance testing with our bots
[15:07] Destiny: Oh!!: Alain we love you, I hope.
[15:08] Soderstrom: bad: bay
[15:08] Luminos: semaphore: flags and a gesture for each?
[15:08] Zanzibar: excellent,: we're looking forward to that
[15:08] Soderstrom: boy:
[15:08] Linden: well,: you can sort of love me
[15:08] Scharf: Uhhh?: And when will the fixes be on Agni?
[15:08] Linden: we: made group chat somewhat better.
[15:08] Khalifa: "somewhat"?:
[15:08] Linden: somewhat.:
[15:08] Linden: as: in better, but we don't know if it is betterer enough
[15:08] Scharf: wtf?: .
[15:08] Zanzibar: I: suspect that in order to make it completely better, you need to build a new system
[15:09] Destiny: for: some value of better.
[15:09] Linden: the: pile-on test today will be a good test
[15:09] i will: be taking part!
[15:09] Avro: morse: could be used
[15:09] Linden: niiiiiiiice:
[15:09] Linden: we'll: talk more about the particulars later in the meeting
[15:09] Khalifa: do: you think a few dozen users here can be a representative test?
[15:10] Linden: oskar,: would it be worth going over the changes we're testing and how it improves chat?
[15:10] Scharf: What's: the duration of the test today?
[15:10] Linden: ---...---:
[15:10] Linden: I: think we'll get more then a few dozen
[15:10] Avro: lol: Coyot
[15:10] Linden: who: is beeping btw?
[15:10] Destiny: Broken:
[15:10] Linden: SMILE:
[15:10] Zanzibar: yeah,: even with the short notice I think we'll get decent turnout
[15:10] Linden: he's: doing Morse code
[15:10] Khalifa: I: would love to hear about the changes Alain
[15:10] Linden: I: think we'll get a decent turnout
[15:10] Luminos: the: new Morse Chat System?
[15:10] Destiny: very: slowly..
[15:10] Zanzibar: let's: get through the agenda, so we can hear more from alain :)
[15:10] Linden: err,: could you kill that?
[15:11] Linden: please?:
[15:11] Avro: done:
[15:11] Linden: ahhhhhhh:
[15:11] Linden: tyvm:
[15:11] Linden: that: was very annoying
[15:11] yes very:
[15:11] Linden: alright: then
[15:11] Linden: next: up on the agenda
[15:11] Avro: no: more than chat lag could be !
[15:11] Linden: but: it was a little entertaining.
[15:11] Linden: this: has been a much better week for release
[15:11] Linden: things: are stable
[15:11] Linden: \o/: \o/
[15:11] Linden: perhaps: even happy
[15:12] Linden: coyot: is happy!
[15:12] Linden: coyot's: attitude has improved dramatically
[15:12] Linden: I'm: not horizontal anymore
[15:12] Linden: we: put Kelly's maint-server to the main channel
[15:12] Zanzibar: so: far, so good there
[15:12] Linden: the: roll had some hiccups since it had been a couple weeks for some of those regions to be restarted
[15:13] Linden: it: was taking a long time for them to save their simstates
[15:13] Linden: just: required more patience than usual
[15:13] Avro: lol:
[15:13] a couple: of weeks is a long time
[15:13] Linden: but: release got it donw
[15:13] Linden: BlueSteel: has the people api changes again
[15:13] Linden: this: will probably get the nod for promotion next week
[15:14] Khalifa: now: homeless is ticking lol
[15:14] good mood: today
[15:14] Linden: +1: on BlueSteel
[15:14] Linden: LeTigre: got the new and updated mono2-performance code for the 3rd time
[15:14] Linden: first: time!
[15:14] Khalifa: 3rd: time the charm!
[15:14] Zanzibar: the: equestrian-friendly version?
[15:15] Linden: or: was it the 3rd time? I forgot the first two
[15:15] Uggla: poor: le tigre is next to explode...
[15:15] Linden: tick:
[15:15] Khalifa: Meastre,: did you ship it with 3 script deserialization a frame?
[15:15] Linden: tick:
[15:15] Linden: I: think it is the 3rd time on an RC
[15:15] Linden: tick:
[15:15] Linden: yes: Latif
[15:15] Khalifa: seemed: like a sensible default
[15:16] Avro: and: snack is dead
[15:16] Khalifa: Homeless,: that's really annoying
[15:16] Linden: yay!:
[15:16] Cronon: what: is annoying?
[15:16] Linden: yes,: though unfortunately there's a performance issue still when an avatar with a few hundred/thousand scripts enters a mono2performance region..which we're working on today (SCR-88)
[15:16] Linden: I: think Homeless is ticking
[15:16] Avro: thks: ANSI
[15:16] Linden: thanks: for the update on that maestro
[15:16] well, i: AM a clock!
[15:17] Linden: one: that needs to be cleaned? :P
[15:17] Linden: Magnum: had some funniness last week
[15:17] Linden: go: easy
[15:17] Linden: that's: the mesh-prep branch
[15:17] Linden: and: that branch had some creative ideas about prim counting
[15:17] Linden: I: think we got those issues found and fixed
[15:18] Zanzibar: coming: up short on prim count reports?
[15:18] Zanzibar: oh: good
[15:18] AvroSigma Avro: still loading meshes with no name. Wander what inventory issues it will drive
[15:18] Linden: but: in the meantime some parcel owners took advantage of the fact that the prim counts were off and overdid their allotment
[15:18] Linden: then: things got returned
[15:18] Linden: "whoops":
[15:18] Zanzibar: some: may not have even realized
[15:18] Khalifa: or: weren't aware of the bug
[15:18] Linden: true:
[15:19] Linden: that's: all fixed up now right maestro?
[15:19] Linden: ouch:
[15:19] Linden: yes,: as far as I know, SVC-7004 is fixed. Multiple people have confirmed it so far..
[15:19] of Jira: [#SVC-7004
[15:19] Linden: there: were some other issues tied to vwr 2.7, but those weren't Magnum issues
[15:19] Khalifa: we: will se a lof of fun with this one mesh deploys. simple resizing of the mesh object changes prim counts.
[15:20] Linden: changes: what it costs. it shouldn't change parcel allotment
[15:20] Destiny: ??:
[15:20] Linden: this: bug was changing parcel prims allowed
[15:20] Khalifa: well: changes the number of free prims you have, that's what i mean
[15:20] Linden: gotcha:
[15:20] Khalifa: same: thing
[15:20] Linden: Oh,: so I have a question for Magnum parcel owners - have you had any objects using HTTP-in that got a URL_REQUEST_DENIED response after wednesday's roll?
[15:21] Destiny: Well: the number of primes shouldn;t change GReatly should they?
[15:21] Linden: I: was investigating SCR-86 a bit, and I'm not sure if it was a freak incident or what
[15:21] of Jira: [#SCR-86
[15:21] Destiny: Prims:
[15:21] Avro: will: be a speciall tag on parcell for meshes in additin to prims, or meshes will be converted in prims ?
[15:21] Linden: right: kallista. the number alloted should not change. The number of free/unused prims in your allotment can change with meshses of different size
[15:21] Luminos: Oskar,: we have a couple of Magnum sims in our estate, and I hadn't noticed that
[15:22] Luminos: or: rather... Maestro
[15:22] Linden: I: don't have the details on mesh -> prim accounting
[15:22] Linden: ah,: thanks Kandi
[15:22] Linden: those: details will be made available closer to the ship date for mesh
[15:22] Avro: ok:
[15:22] Linden: speaking: of, I think a mesh blog post went out
[15:22] Destiny: Yes: that should be 'interesting'.
[15:23] Linden: http//community.secondlife.com/t5/Featured-News/Mesh-Coming-to-Second-Life-This-Summer/ba-p/902061:
[15:23] Khalifa: yes,: says mesh on RC sims on Agni in July
[15:23] Zanzibar: yeah,: excellent news
[15:23] Khalifa: so: we have a month for "details"
[15:23] Linden: -):
[15:24] Linden: We've: used up all our Snack's
[15:24] Uggla: i'll: be back in november :)
[15:24] Linden: Snack: is not being used on AGNI this week
[15:24] Linden: or: we might have it open for something else
[15:24] Linden: I: forget heh
[15:24] Linden: /o\:
[15:24] Linden: we: attempted to test out a fix for the TIMEWARP issue
[15:24] Zanzibar: will: it be RC'd on the existing RC channels, or will they have their own rollout schedule?
[15:25] Destiny: foo:
[15:25] Linden: I: don't think our fix worked
[15:25] Linden: so: we're still looking into it
[15:25] Khalifa: I: hope Lindens will reconsider changing the model so that object scale does not factor in number of prims meshes are charged against parcel limits. Someone resizing their mesh tree in the garden should not make them run out of free prims. It violates the principle of least astonishment.
[15:25] Linden: I: don't know TriloByte, but I'll find out
[15:25] Linden: It's: possible that the one Snack sim host with 'TIMEWARP' issues has a hardware problem, also. That's my hope, at least...
[15:26] Linden: that's: a discussion for the mesh usergroup Latif
[15:26] Khalifa: I'm: only expressing my hope :)
[15:26] Linden: -):
[15:26] Linden: anything: upcoming to mention Maestro?
[15:27] Linden: So,: mesh-prep changes on Magnum broke some vehicles
[15:27] Khalifa: I: was glad to see the bug in the mesh-prep that has broken third party import tools has been fixed.
[15:27] Linden: such: as the Monorail in Toyosu (the cars get stuck in places)
[15:27] Linden: Falcon: has a 'unified fix' which will hopefully fix these vehicles while not breaking other content
[15:28] how are: the horses doing?
[15:28] Khalifa: lol:
[15:28] Linden: so: far they're back to normal, thanks for asking :P
[15:28] Linden: Frau: Blucher!
[15:28] Merlin: I: think I got to know that Snck server - but I still feel the script pauses I saw may have had another factor involved - SCR-88 could explain some of it.
[15:28] lol undefined:
[15:28] of Jira: [#SCR-88
[15:28] Destiny: I: expect what you'll see is that an object with 1 physician prim costing 6 might suddeny cost 12 as it expands in size. I think that people will quickly understand this.
[15:28] Linden: we'll: hopefully have a new build with falcon's fix in the "DRTSIM-52" channel of aditi later today or tomorrow
[15:29] Linden: well: those are our standard updates.
[15:29] Linden: we: can talk about the group chat changes now
[15:29] Cronon: this: increase of nr of prims that is because of size. will it affect all prims or just meshes?
[15:30] Destiny: Mesh: only
[15:30] Linden: does: this test plan look good to you all?
[15:30] Linden: https//wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/GroupChatTest:
[15:30] Linden: I: tried to keep it simple and straightforward
[15:30] Linden: we: have 2 islands set up and need people on different islands chatting in group chat
[15:31] Destiny: Looks: fun.
[15:31] Avro: Oh,: before, just a question :one of my residents observed on magnum that prims resisting to return occured apparently due to roll restarta just a point befoer : could be prims resisting to return due to roll restarts ?
[15:31] unfortunately I: have to leave after OH, 6pk dinner time here
[15:31] 5pm undefined:
[15:31] Linden: ok: homeless
[15:31] 6pm (typonese: attack)
[15:31] Scharf: Group: chat across region borders or every group on each region?
[15:31] Linden: does: anyone have any questions about the steps in that wiki page?
[15:31] Zanzibar: unless: dinner involves a 6pk :)
[15:32] Linden: happens: to me too Homeless
[15:32] Cronon: how: many people know about the test toda?
[15:32] Linden: we: will be using the Second Life Beta group to group chat in
[15:32] Cronon: today*:
[15:32] Scharf: Hmmm: ... need an invite.
[15:32] Destiny: Linden's: are not allowed to speak typonese.
[15:32] Linden: word: of the test spread pretty quickly
[15:32] Neurocam: would: conferences not tied to a specific group also load the server as well, or is it just for the second life beta group?
[15:32] Zanzibar: not: enough, Rex, but we should still get a decent turnout
[15:32] Linden: that's: something else we need Draconis
[15:32] Scharf: Oh,: I'm there. :-D
[15:32] Linden: I: didn't want to confuse things on that page
[15:32] especially when: writing code
[15:32] Lupindo: What: wiki page? (I forgot the URL)
[15:33] Khalifa: https//wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/GroupChatTest:
[15:33] Cronon: why: didn't u send a group notice on main?
[15:33] Linden: if: you guys want to open your own conferences to chat in that is a needed test too
[15:33] Stonecutter: would: logging on an alt help?
[15:33] Linden: I: sent word out to the SL Beta group and AWG on AGNI
[15:33] Linden: then: asked to have people pass it on
[15:33] Linden: it's: gotten some good coverage
[15:34] Destiny: I: passed ti a group of a few hundred
[15:34] Linden: our: CEO even found the link and tweeted it. that kinda surprised me.
[15:34] Linden: you: can bring on alts
[15:34] Linden: or: bots
[15:34] Linden: whatever:
[15:34] Bu: couple: of us have posted on Plurk and Twitter a few times too
[15:34] Luminos: It's: been passed to the RLV support group... I'll get it out to a few thousand more right away
[15:34] Linden: it: would be good if some of you can create small conferences to chat in
[15:34] Khalifa: Perhaps: Alain can outline the changes made. My understanding about grouop chat problems was that it needed to lookup presence data on each chat participant for each line of chat sent. It is therefore I was asking how effective test on Aditi can be since presence data here is not nearly as big and changing as on Agni.
[15:34] Linden: hahaha: megga pile on!
[15:34] Linden: Draconis,: Latif, can you guys do that?
[15:35] Linden: Alain,: can you outline some of the changes?
[15:35] Linden: sure:
[15:35] Linden: so: I don't know what y'all do or don't know about how group chats work, so I'll give you the readers digest version
[15:36] Idlemind: Someone: should tell the Phoenix/Firestorm support group...that'll get like 100,000 people here
[15:36] Avro: if: anyone is connected to additi, should ask to beta group to reinforce chat test on aditi
[15:36] Avro: *agin: aditi
[15:36] Linden: when: someone sends a group chat it goes to your sim which forwards it to a special service
[15:36] Neurocam: sure: oskar, just need calling cards to add people to them, so people would need to add me
[15:36] Linden: the: service knows who in the group is online and receiving
[15:36] Zanzibar: I: did not long ago, with link to the wiki
[15:37] Cronon: no: wonder that lagging sims affect your group chat:(
[15:37] Avro: oh,: tks Zanzi
[15:37] Linden: currently,: when a message comes in, the group chat service must locate every recipient
[15:37] Zanzibar: also: explains why some groups have consistently poorer performance
[15:37] Linden: that: requires a lookup to another service
[15:38] Linden: then: once it knows where each recipient is, the group chat service must send a message to each recipients sim
[15:38] Linden: so,: if you have 250 group members on line and in the group, the group chat service
[15:38] Zanzibar: so: it sort of daisy-chains to all the sims that all the avatars in that group (who are online) are on?
[15:38] Linden: must: do 250 look ups followed by 250 sends.
[15:38] Bu: whew!:
[15:38] Destiny: ouch:
[15:39] Avro: and: how is it improved now ?
[15:39] Cronon: considering: that the nr of online user never went above 100k, why don't u just have a table with all users and sim they r in. it might speed thing up a little
[15:39] Yap: the: lookups done every time a line of chat is sent?
[15:39] Stonecutter: geesh.: So would people with bad packet loss cause a problem?
[15:39] Linden: As: a first pass at improving things, we wanted to see what we could fix in the present system without changing a lot of code or introducing incompatible changes with current viewers.
[15:39] Khalifa: these: lookups are done synchroneously? i mean it needs to get all the participants before it stars sending?
[15:39] Linden: That: constrains us a lot.
[15:40] Destiny: I: can imagine
[15:40] Linden: Not: exactly Latif..
[15:40] Zanzibar: cut: the 1x cord, working group chat would be a compelling reason to upgrade :)
[15:40] 0 listener: got chat: 1, FruitFox-SpikeyHair, 0a605728-97fb-ef0a-4f4d-68b536e5e618, spiky
[15:40] Linden: There: are two changes we've made that will improve performance.
[15:40] Linden: afk: a bit
[15:40] Linden: First,: we're caching presence information in the group chat service.
[15:40] Debs: ...what: if we set up a date some time in the future? Obviously I understand the urgency, but you'd need a lot of people to just blab in a big group chat.
[15:41] Linden: That: should eliminate most of the presence look ups.
[15:41] Zanzibar: that's: good
[15:41] Linden: We: figure people don't move from region to region that often during a chat session.
[15:41] Destiny: Caching: is a good thing
[15:41] Avro: mm.: second, on changing sim, avatr must send info to chat server ?
[15:41] Linden: The: other change is that we've updated the sim so that we can send one message for multiple recipients.
[15:42] Lupindo: Alain,: gridhunters are the exception to that. They tp often to pick up prises.
[15:42] Khalifa: hmm.: risky assumption. so you teleport to another region and miss group chat for the cache timeout time.
[15:42] Destiny: Region: sends information
[15:42] Greeter: Falcon: Linden has arrived! (Or, returned?)
[15:42] Uggla: really?: i have groups i leave open all day to monitor chat...
[15:42] Zanzibar: when: a user logs on, will they need to wait until the cache is updated before they start receiving group chats?
[15:42] McCannMarianne McCann: often teeps along during group chats
[15:42] Idlemind: So: will that cause problems for people who *do* change regions a lot while group-chatting
[15:42] Linden: The: caching is transparent and if you aren't on the expected sim, the chat service will look you up in the presenece database and send the message again.
[15:42] Stonecutter: so: if you do change to a diffent sim. then what? Or well find out
[15:43] Khalifa: ok: that sounds good
[15:43] Destiny: ahhhhhhh,: that makes sense
[15:43] Avro: ah,: so messages will not be received in the same order by all residents !
[15:43] Destiny: send: the message to the region and if it fails tehn look for the person
[15:43] Linden: Now: by sending one message per sim, we can reduce the number of messages sent so long as there are multiple recipients in a region.
[15:43] SMILE they: aren't now ;-)
[15:43] Zanzibar: it's: a shame the chat couldn't just bypass the sim and go from the central server to the user regardless of region
[15:43] Linden: tested: that today with small groups, did not notice any lags when moving between sims.
[15:44] Linden: Unfortunately,: our data shows that on average there are 1.1 recipients per region so that isn't going to help as much as we hoped.
[15:44] Linden: So: far our tests show that we've made group chat at least 2X better.
[15:44] Bu: any: improvement :-)
[15:44] Avro: this: will introduce another kind of chat lag bug : messages resceived in different order for different recipients
[15:45] Yap: And: what we will be testing tonight are these changes?
[15:45] Linden: That's: not bad, but it remains to be seen if it is enough to really improve your user experience.
[15:45] Zanzibar: you: might be surprised
[15:45] Khalifa: Smile,: that's how it works today
[15:45] Avro: no: Latif
[15:45] Cronon: we: already receive messages in different order
[15:45] Zanzibar: from: my experience on the main grid, the groups that have the biggest chat problems are estate-based communities
[15:45] Avro: dont: think so. Well maybe you are right
[15:45] Uggla: if: it cuts in half the amount of failed mesages, that's a good thing
[15:45] Frenzy: no,: now we alll get the messages out of order
[15:45] Linden: By: the way, you should know that the bottleneck in chat delivery is the chat service.
[15:45] Zanzibar: which: may have higher resident per region numbers... my fingers are crossed
[15:45] Linden: It: isn't the presence service or sims.
[15:46] Yap: Establishing: the session has often been an issue for me
[15:46] Frenzy: only: having some of us get them out of order is great
[15:46] Linden: The: game is all about minimizing the number of requests performed by the chat service.
[15:46] McCann: Word,: Jonathan. "Cannot start chat with "Mental Mentors" blah blah"
[15:46] Avro: so,: ; dont change sim if you want to chat correctly. It is reasonnable
[15:46] Khalifa: Alain,: there was also some mention of partitioning the chat service based on the group uuid which results in some groups being on "bad" chat servers which are perma-lagged
[15:47] Linden: So,: currently chat groups are partitioned by uuid and that is unchanged.
[15:47] Cronon: is: not that reasonable. it implies that there is no synchronization
[15:47] Yap: How: many servers are there?
[15:47] Linden: So,: yeah, if you are on a server that hosts some big talkative groups, your still gonna lose.
[15:47] Khalifa: 16: last time i heard, one for each starting digit of the uuid
[15:48] Khalifa: is: it possible to add more servers? subpartition?
[15:48] Yap: And: they are all real machines, not virtualized?
[15:48] Linden: We're: considering ways to subpartition
[15:48] Linden: but: we haven't yet implemented anything.
[15:49] Linden: Another: thing we've done that doesn't directly affect performance but should be really useful is add more instrumentation to the system
[15:49] Linden: since: we now have a pretty good understanding of lag, we can get out the right numbers to spot it.
[15:49] Destiny: nods,: you need data to make a good fix
[15:49] Cronon: why: not make group chat a different service, and when somebody logs in they r also logged in the group chat service
[15:50] Mayo: Alain,: do chat messages carry a timestamp all the way through to the viewer?
[15:50] Linden: we: don't timestamp messages currently
[15:50] Mayo: k:
[15:50] Idlemind: So: for the test today should we stay in 1 place or hop around to different regions
[15:50] Avro: yses: that would be a good solution: put a time stamp, to avoid chat confusions
[15:50] Linden: we: did do something like that in a test cluster which helped us spot the chat bottleneck.
[15:50] Destiny: uses: up too much screen space
[15:51] Mayo: Well,: then some sort dance would have to occur in viewer chat window, leading to other confusions.
[15:51] Zanzibar: wouldn't: it be possible to bypass having to check the sim entirely? that shouldn't have to matter, since regardless of what specific region they're on the resident should receive the message
[15:51] Destiny: 155053: test
[15:51] Linden: You: sent that yesterday, right?
[15:51] Avro: (senders: time stamp)
[15:51] Destiny: Yes...:
[15:51] Linden: she: sent it tomorrow
[15:51] Linden: she's: in the future
[15:51] Linden: in: theory one could bypass the sim, but the sim isn't really causing much lag.
[15:51] Linden: LOTTO!!!:
[15:51] Zanzibar: sent: tomorrow, it's been tuned up too much! :)
[15:51] Yap: If: the message had a timestamp it could be displayed, and the recipient could figure out what was sent when
[15:52] Khalifa: TriloByte,: that's what xmpp was about but it was decided to constain to the solution where viewer will only talk to the sim like now and not directly to the chat service
[15:52] Linden: just: sayin' ... a timeonly timestamp is not complete
[15:52] Mayo: or: it could be interleaved into existing window contetn, with the aforementioned confusion.
[15:52] Linden: xmpp: is a potential long term solution
[15:52] Avro: ah,: Latif will be hapy now
[15:52] Linden: recently: we've been looking for shorter term improvements
[15:53] Destiny: Yes,: back in the OLD chat we actuslly had some messages delayed by more than a day
[15:53] Lupindo: Timestamp: of seconds past the startime. That how is done internelly in UNIX like systems.
[15:53] Linden: usually: called the epoch
[15:53] Linden: 1/1/1970:
[15:53] Linden: at: midnight
[15:53] Lupindo: Thats: it. Epoch. thatnk you coyot
[15:53] Linden: yw:
[15:53] Destiny: 160000: 12/31/1969
[15:53] Linden: BTW,: before the meeting is over, please say Happy Birthday to GECKO LINDEN!
[15:53] Linden: so,: that's the high level view.
[15:54] Zanzibar: happy: birthday, Gecko!!
[15:54] Trudeau: happy: birthday, Gecko!
[15:54] Linden: hippo: birdie 2 ewe!
[15:54] Linden: Anything: more I can tell you?
[15:54] Destiny: Happy: Birthday Gecko
[15:54] Khalifa: sigma,: i don't particulary care about xmpp or not as long as we have a working group chat. cacellation of xmpp was bad news because it meant one more delay in fixing the problem
[15:54] Linden: hahaha,: thanks.
[15:54] Soderstrom: happy: gecko
[15:54] Lowenhar: happy: b-day gecko
[15:54] Cronon: happy: birthday:)
[15:54] Avro: jouyeux: anniversaire GECKO !!!
[15:54] Zanzibar: interesting: insight, alain, thank you
[15:54] Linden: yes,: Thanks Alain!
[15:54] Khalifa: Alain,: thank you very much for the explanation.
[15:54] Mayo: A: very Happy Birthday Gecko, and many more to you!
[15:54] Scharf: Ohhh: ... Happy birthday dear Gecko
[15:54] Linden: thankee:
[15:54] Linden: BTW,: there's a high level commitment to getting group chat working well
[15:54] Linden: alright.: does anyone have any questions before we shuffle off to the test regions and start chatting?
[15:54] Bu: Hippo: birdies, gecko!
[15:54] Linden: rez: day or bday?
[15:54] McCann: Hippo: Birdies!
[15:54] Avro: Well: Latif, I discovered you have build your how system, forgot the name
[15:54] Destiny: indeed,: knowing what the problem is helps us explain ot to the rest of our groups.
[15:55] Linden: so: you can expect to see more changes over the long term
[15:55] Debs: ...when: you get older, losing your hair...many yeeears from now...do do do do do..
[15:55] Linden: bday:
[15:55] Lowenhar: we: are only to chat in group chat right?
[15:55] Linden: yeah:
[15:55] Khalifa: Alain,: sorry, but we had commitments for years, including last year SLCC where the CEO said fix by the end of the 2010 :)
[15:55] Bu: Hi!: Loki!
[15:55] Linden: pass: this link on to anyone who wants to help out: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/GroupChatTest
[15:55] Mayo: All: these architectural details we learn here sure would make some purty block diagrams.
[15:55] Linden: tell: them to get their prims over to ADITI!
[15:55] Khalifa: So: I'm looking forward to actual fixes, not commitments :)
[15:55] McCannMarianne McCann: waves at Loki
[15:55] Linden: we: have been gathering metrics for before and after graphs
[15:56] Linden: maybe: we'll have some ready next week
[15:56] Zanzibar: oooh: - charts!
[15:56] Linden: thanks: to everyone for coming today. I'm gonna go head over to the test regions and start chatting
[15:57] Linden: cya:
[15:57] Mayo: Thanks: for your User Group time Oskar, Maestro, Coyot, Alain, Gecko, Falcon! On to the gabfest B^D
[15:57] Linden: yw:
[15:57] Khalifa: Do: you want us teleort among the regions during the test? Or should we pick one and stay there?
[15:57] Bu: yay!:
[15:57] Avro: Is: it better to go on Oatmeal or on GC%20Test ?
[15:57] Cronon: tc: oskar
[15:57] Linden: either: or latif
[15:57] Cronon: u: mean this is not a test region?
[15:57] Linden: pick: on sigma
[15:57] Avro: Thanks: you Oskar
[15:57] Avro: oh,: lag, o
[15:57] Linden: this: is not a test region
[15:58] McCann: All: in the Second Life Beta group?
[15:58] Linden: you: need to pick a slurl from here: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/GroupChatTest
[15:58] Khalifa: I: am here with 5 bots, you thought I was loud before :P
[15:58] Scharf: So: thank ya very much ... espacially to the Linden's.
[15:58] Lupindo: secondlife//Aditi/secondlife/Oatmeal%201/128/128/30: (so I can clink on it)
[15:58] McCann: Heading: to a GC region
[15:58] slurls aren't: working for me
[15:58] Lupindo: Hmm...can't: tp ther.
[15:58] Linden: -(:
[15:58] Carling: no: workie
[15:58] Khalifa: Ima,: kill Aditi from it
[15:58] Avro: lol: tp failed !

Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2011-06-02

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