Bug triage/2007-09-12/Transcript

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Transcript of Bridie Linden's office hours:

[15:00] Bridie Linden: howdy Inara
[15:00] Bridie Linden: Hey everyone!
[15:00] Inara Marquette: lol yes but I escaped :)
[15:00] Daedalus Young: ho Torley
[15:00] Daedalus Young: hi
[15:00] Daedalus Young: I mean
[15:00] Daedalus Young: hi Ciaran
[15:00] Inara Marquette: Torley <3 Hiyas
[15:00] WarKirby Magojiro: need to relog
[15:00] WarKirby Magojiro: brb
[15:00] Bridie Linden: Hiyas, what up!
[15:01] Torley Linden sees the aerial mollusk form of Joshua float across the room.

[15:01] Bridie Linden: :D
[15:01] Daedalus Young: the only way is up
[15:01] Bridie Linden: Daedalus: http://blogs.zdnet.com/images/herding%20cats.jpg
[15:01] Bridie Linden: Pathfinder first got me hooked on that herding cats thing.
[15:01] Daedalus Young: hehe fun
[15:01] Daedalus Young: :P
[15:01] Bridie Linden: Apparently, I'm a better person because of it. :)
[15:01] Daedalus Young: hi Aric
[15:01] Bridie Linden: Hey Aric
[15:02] Bridie Linden: Heya Aric!
[15:02] Bridie Linden: Hey Torley!
[15:02] Inara Marquette: Hi Aric
[15:02] Bridie Linden: We'll wait another min or 2...
[15:02] Aric Linden: g'day all
[15:02] Aric Linden: Torley, I can't imagine a better you. You're the best you evah
[15:02] Bridie Linden: Oh Hey Joshua - I didn't see ya over there
[15:02] Daedalus Young: hi Kooky
[15:02] Kooky Jetaime: Dae
[15:03] Inara Marquette: Hey Kooky
[15:03] Bridie Linden: Torley, will you be my PJIRA jockey and update wiki? or shall i do latter, later?
[15:03] Daedalus Young: cool av though
[15:03] WarKirby Magojiro: mollusk...
[15:03] Bridie Linden: Hi WarKirby, Kooky
[15:03] Bridie Linden: Ok, a few obligatory announcments :)
[15:04] Kooky Jetaime: Birdy
[15:04] Inara Marquette: lol wow Joshua thats impressive :) and creepy. I can't stop looking at you Help!
[15:04] Kooky Jetaime: Birdie
[15:04] Bridie Linden: First off, welcome all!
[15:04] Bridie Linden: Awww thanks Aric.
[15:04] Bridie Linden: Bridie, yes, I will jockey!
[15:04] Bridie Linden: Welcome to my weekly triage -- formerly the Viewer Crashes triage, now the Release Candidate triage.
[15:04] Bridie Linden: Of course, we can still go over crashes or any other important issues, but I'd ask that you add them to the agenda before we meet.
[15:04] Ciaran Laval: What the heck is an orange teddy bear doing here? Am i having a Frank Rabbit type moment or is that thing real?
[15:04] WarKirby Magojiro is using the RC, but Nicholaz Enhanced

[15:05] Bridie Linden: I've updated the agenda for this afternoon: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/Wednesday_Agenda
[15:05] Daedalus Young: that's Bridie's Bear
[15:05] Bridie Linden: (That's my Linden Bear Ciaran)
[15:05] WarKirby Magojiro: Can someone link the agenda ?
[15:05] Bridie Linden: Haha that's the best reaction to Bridie's bear I've heard yet.
[15:05] Kooky Jetaime: 18xJ here too.
[15:05] Daedalus Young: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/Wednesday_Agenda
[15:05] Bridie Linden: I *think* I'm up to date on the latest RC 1.18.3 issues: https://jira.secondlife.com/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?mode=hide&requestId=10631
[15:05] Bridie Linden: So, what I'd like to do today is go over the issues listed in "Not new in RC 1.18.3, NOT Imported".
[15:05] Bridie Linden: Scroll down the agenda page...
[15:05] Bridie Linden: Let's see which ones *should* be imported.
[15:05] Daedalus Young: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/Wednesday_Agenda#Not_new_in_RC_1.18.3.2C_NOT_Imported
[15:05] Bridie Linden: Sound good?
[15:06] Bridie Linden: Okay ah VWR-2422 looks like a dupe off the bat.
[15:06] Aric Linden yups

[15:06] Daedalus Young: yes, I can remember it from another issue too
[15:07] Bridie Linden: Sec... I'll link 'em...
[15:07] Bridie Linden: Dupe of https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1448.
[15:07] WarKirby Magojiro: hmm
[15:07] Bridie Linden: Argh, I didn't mean to put a period after that -- https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1448
[15:07] Bridie Linden: Great, Thx Torley
[15:07] WarKirby Magojiro: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1132
[15:07] WarKirby Magojiro: Planar mapping is distorted
[15:08] Bridie Linden: Which list are you looking @ WarKirby?
[15:08] Kooky Jetaime: 1132
[15:08] WarKirby Magojiro: the page that was just linked
[15:08] WarKirby Magojiro: sorted by LL issue id
[15:09] WarKirby Magojiro: release candidate bugs
[15:09] Bridie Linden: Looks like next on our list is VWR-2266 on the agenda wiki page?
[15:09] WarKirby Magojiro: though it's not relly a viewer specific thing
[15:09] Bridie Linden: Sorry we're using wiki agenda page
[15:09] Daedalus Young: it's on the not new not imported list too, has the most votes
[15:09] WarKirby Magojiro: ah .Can someone post a liink to it ?
[15:09] Bridie Linden: I see it, but would like to go in order of wiki page - ok?
[15:09] Daedalus Young: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/Wednesday_Agenda#Not_new_in_RC_1.18.3.2C_NOT_Imported
[15:10] Bridie Linden: Thx Daed
[15:10] Daedalus Young: we'll get there anyway
[15:10] WarKirby Magojiro: thank you
[15:10] Bridie Linden nods

[15:10] Bridie Linden: APologies for confusion
[15:10] Bridie Linden: Many links!
[15:10] Daedalus Young: links with anchors
[15:10] Bridie Linden: lol
[15:10] Bridie Linden: Ok, VWR-2266 - Votes: 0 - Friends list in Communicate window still shows (waiting) after 20 mins online
[15:10] Bridie Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2266
[15:10] Daedalus Young: sounds like network issue
[15:11] Bridie Linden: I've definitely seen that on occasion.
[15:11] Daedalus Young: like sometimes the L$ balance remains Loading
[15:11] Bridie Linden: Sometimes cleared up after a relog.
[15:11] Kooky Jetaime: I've seen that pre-voice
[15:11] Kooky Jetaime: So its not anything new
[15:11] Bridie Linden: I've seen it for awhile too. *nods*
[15:11] Daedalus Young: when the servers are dying usually
[15:11] Bridie Linden: QA was unable to repro however...
[15:11] Kooky Jetaime: Wonder if it has anything to do with the same reason you see (???) in groups
[15:11] Daedalus Young: yes, I think it's the same Kooky
[15:11] Mercia McMahon: I only ever saw that in the Communicate Window so not pre-Voice for me
[15:11] Bridie Linden: Yeah... I wonder that too, Kooky -- it's one of those intermittent things.
[15:12] WarKirby Magojiro: never seen this one
[15:12] Kooky Jetaime: Might be worth linking and seeing what could potentially cause both of those issues
[15:12] Kooky Jetaime: probably same thing
[15:12] Bridie Linden: Kooky, do you remember the # of the other issue?
[15:12] Kooky Jetaime: Not a clue..
[15:12] Mercia McMahon: afk
[15:12] Kooky Jetaime: never pjira'ed it..
[15:12] Bridie Linden: I realize PJIRA isn't good at searching for "???".
[15:12] Kooky Jetaime: "Missing group name" ?
[15:13] Aric Linden: problem is that we want repros in order to move things into dev
[15:13] WarKirby Magojiro: hippos :)
[15:13] Daedalus Young: misc-582 says google
[15:13] Aric Linden grins at WarKirby

[15:13] Kooky Jetaime: I understand Aric, but some things just arn't reproable on demand...
[15:13] Bridie Linden: Nice find Daedalus! Hey I should use Google more.
[15:13] Aric Linden: hey, you tell that to the linden devs
[15:13] Aric Linden: /grins
[15:13] Daedalus Young: site:jira.secondlife.com as extra search query
[15:13] Kooky Jetaime: Sure...
[15:13] Bridie Linden: Thanks!
[15:13] WarKirby Magojiro: unreproducible issues are very problematic
[15:14] Bridie Linden: OK, and MISC-582 is dupe of VWR-882...
[15:14] Kooky Jetaime: Usually the non-reproable things are the more needy to be resolved.
[15:14] Kooky Jetaime: heh
[15:14] Daedalus Young: Gigs is working on lag and network issues though
[15:14] Daedalus Young: has a test suite for it
[15:14] Aric Linden: agrees with Kooky
[15:14] Daedalus Young: hi Alexa
[15:14] Bridie Linden: I think keep this VWR-2266 open for now and receptive for future info?
[15:14] Alexa Linden: hey all :)
[15:14] Bridie Linden: Hey Alexa, I've liked reading your PJIRA comments!
[15:14] Kooky Jetaime: Ok, maybe someone can answer this: When you edit an item, and it shows its group name, where does that information come from? Sim or local cache?
[15:14] Alexa Linden: :P thanks
[15:15] Alexa Linden: trying to get things cleaned up a bit
[15:15] Daedalus Young: I think it's downloaded, sometimes takes a while for it shows up
[15:15] Kooky Jetaime: Because I've seen the (???) in my group list, and in active edit windows when I grabbed something. I've seen it in "About Land" boxes as well
[15:15] Bridie Linden: Bridie crashed, she's coming back.
[15:15] WarKirby Magojiro: oh
[15:16] WarKirby Magojiro: which issue are we on atm ?
[15:16] Kooky Jetaime: For awhile, I thought the group itself was corrupted somehow
[15:16] Saijanai Kuhn: UUID is checked against server, I blieve
[15:16] Kooky Jetaime: wb Birdie
[15:16] Daedalus Young: wb Bridie
[15:16] Alexa Linden: WB Bridie :)
[15:16] Bridie Linden: Kooky: Yeah, that might be a more serious problem.
[15:16] Bridie Linden: are we still on 2266?
[15:16] Kooky Jetaime: I don't think the group exists anymore, but it was "Dark City Urban Ruins"
[15:16] Bridie Linden: Yes Bridie.
[15:16] WarKirby Magojiro: I'm seeing unknown in object creator/ owner spaces sometimes
[15:17] Daedalus Young: yes, me too
[15:17] Bridie Linden: I suggest leaving VWR-2266 open for more feedback...
[15:17] Bridie Linden: Internally VWR-882 is assigned to Milo to check out too.
[15:17] Bridie Linden nods

[15:17] Bridie Linden: (Related issues.)
[15:17] Daedalus Young: although Profile button then still worked
[15:17] Kooky Jetaime: I've noticed that I don't see the Creator anymore when I edit someones attachments.. I swore I used to always before
[15:17] Bridie Linden: Kooky: I don't ever recall that.
[15:17] Bridie Linden: That's one of my long pet peeves. :)
[15:18] WarKirby Magojiro: oh
[15:18] WarKirby Magojiro: you're right, we don't
[15:18] Kooky Jetaime: Torley - It used to because thats how I found out who made stuff for awhile, before I turned into an "inspect" junkie
[15:18] WarKirby Magojiro: that's annoying
[15:18] Aric Linden: So what shall we do with this one?
[15:18] Alexa Linden: I don't recall seeing it unless it was placed on the ground.. not attached
[15:18] Bridie Linden: Ok, next up...
[15:18] Bridie Linden: Alexa: Same here.
[15:18] Bridie Linden: Aric, I think we just said to not import 2266
[15:18] Bridie Linden: Gather more info, yes?
[15:18] Bridie Linden: *nod*
[15:18] Bridie Linden: Link to other issues?
[15:18] Bridie Linden: Already linked.
[15:18] Bridie Linden: To VWR-882.
[15:18] Bridie Linden: So next is, /555 VWR-2302
[15:18] WarKirby Magojiro: any linden can operate the urler with /555 issue number
[15:19] Bridie Linden: Hmmm...
[15:19] Daedalus Young: chat channel 555
[15:19] Bridie Linden: Sounds like this fellow has done a lot.
[15:19] Kooky Jetaime snickers

[15:19] Bridie Linden: did that work?
[15:19] Aric Linden: I wonder if this is a dutch machine or an english machine
[15:19] WarKirby Magojiro nods

[15:19] Bridie Linden is trying to use WarKirby's cool urler (see spinning logo)

[15:19] Aric Linden: The drivers might be different for the different os's
[15:19] Bridie Linden: Click on it
[15:20] WarKirby Magojiro: is the card supported?
[15:20] Bridie Linden: Yes, this card is supported.
[15:20] WarKirby Magojiro: hmm
[15:20] Kooky Jetaime: Birdie, why not move it over your bear so its not hidden to one side of the room
[15:20] Bridie Linden: From the driver name, it looks correct.
[15:21] WarKirby Magojiro: if a supported card is't working, that seems like something that needs importing
[15:21] Bridie Linden: Looks like he provided logs too...
[15:21] Daedalus Young: hmm, something could be corrupted
[15:21] Aric Linden: whoa, torley, what do you mean about the driver looking correct?
[15:21] Aric Linden: I see that he's using the international version
[15:21] Bridie Linden: Aric, I was wondering about your earlier comment, and in the description, it says "winxp" -- which appears to be correct for the XP SP2 that he's running.
[15:22] Bridie Linden: I wonder what happens if he tries older driver versions.
[15:22] Aric Linden: ahh. look at the rest of the string
[15:22] Aric Linden: it's an international version
[15:22] Aric Linden: it appears to me that he's running a native Dutch version of XP
[15:22] Aric Linden: I wonder what would happen if he updated to the "american" drivers
[15:22] Daedalus Young: pesky Dutch
[15:23] Bridie Linden: On NVIDIA.com it says: "Users without English US operating systems must download and install the International Driver available on our International Sites listed below:"
[15:23] Aric Linden: yep. and those drivers may be a release behind in support
[15:23] Aric Linden: if you see what I mean.
[15:23] Bridie Linden: Sounds worth asking that he try 162.18_forceware_winxp_32bit_english_whql.exe then, eh?
[15:23] Aric Linden: /nods
[15:24] Aric Linden: that's what I'm wondering. I suspect it'll work
[15:24] Mercia McMahon: usually it means that the international version includes things the NSA do not allow in the US
[15:24] Aric Linden: if the chip will allow that update
[15:24] Bridie Linden: Shall we resolve back to Oberon?
[15:24] Bridie Linden: *makes a comment* Thanks Aric...
[15:24] WarKirby Magojiro: what could you include in a graphics driver that the NSA don't like ?
[15:24] Bridie Linden: Yeah, Needs More Info + my comment.
[15:24] Aric Linden: np. it's why i'm here
[15:24] Bridie Linden: :D
[15:24] Bridie Linden: Teamwork!
[15:24] Bridie Linden: Great.
[15:24] Aric Linden: HOORAH for teamwork
[15:24] Bridie Linden: Moving right along...
[15:25] Bridie Linden: Click on SL logo please
[15:25] WarKirby Magojiro: oh
[15:25] WarKirby Magojiro: this has happened to me a ferw times
[15:25] WarKirby Magojiro: seemed to be isolated incidents, though
[15:25] Bridie Linden: on Linux
[15:26] Bridie Linden: I haven't come across this myself.
[15:26] Daedalus Young: maybe happens when IM thingy opens
[15:26] Daedalus Young: I saw an issue (and experience it myself) where group IM slows down framerate
[15:26] London Roff: hello everyone
[15:26] Aric Linden: hi London
[15:27] Bridie Linden: Heya London.
[15:27] Daedalus Young: and have had crashes on profiles opening
[15:27] Bridie Linden: Hi London - we're triagin' away here...
[15:27] Aric Linden: i'm wondering what the steps for repro might be
[15:27] Daedalus Young: and other dialogs
[15:27] London Roff: howz it going?
[15:27] Bridie Linden: This is disturbing "On next restart I send in a bug report and the first attempt to log in reports "Region Restart" so I have to try again. "
[15:27] Aric Linden: since I frequently have many IM's queued for me when I login
[15:27] Bridie Linden: Does that suggest that he crashed the region?
[15:27] Daedalus Young: I think he means with that the isn't logged out properly
[15:27] WarKirby Magojiro: Likewise. Losing those would be most worrysome
[15:27] Daedalus Young: often happens when you crash and relog quickly
[15:28] Alexa Linden: /agrees
[15:28] WarKirby Magojiro: one a similar note, we could really do with a way to know who IMed recently
[15:28] Aric Linden: My suggestion would be that he try setting his default arrival spot to a new location
[15:28] Daedalus Young: I log my IMs
[15:28] WarKirby Magojiro does too

[15:28] Bridie Linden: Yeah, maybe it's a particularly troublesome region that's coinciding, eh?
[15:28] London Roff: how do you do that aric?
[15:28] Daedalus Young: can easily find them back
[15:28] Bridie Linden: Good suggestion -
[15:28] London Roff: i crash alot too
[15:28] WarKirby Magojiro: edit > Preferences > general > start location
[15:29] Daedalus Young: you can also have your start location on the login screen
[15:29] Aric Linden: London, when you launch second life, before you click on the connect button, you can reset the location popup
[15:29] WarKirby Magojiro: it's pretty intuitive from there
[15:29] Bridie Linden: Can someone add that as a comment?
[15:29] Aric Linden looks at daedalus

[15:29] Bridie Linden: Please?
[15:29] WarKirby Magojiro: I will
[15:29] Bridie Linden: I already added it, sorry!
[15:29] Bridie Linden: *blush*
[15:29] London Roff: cool
[15:29] Bridie Linden: Thx WarKirby - er Torley!
[15:29] London Roff: ty
[15:29] Daedalus Young: ahh
[15:29] Bridie Linden: Now we're onto VWR-1132
[15:30] Kooky Jetaime: Warkirby - what do you mean, who IMed recently?
[15:30] Bridie Linden: Rocking on...
[15:30] WarKirby Magojiro: For example, a list of all people who you had IMs with in the las x sessions
[15:30] Kooky Jetaime: oh
[15:30] WarKirby Magojiro: so that in the event of crashing, you could look at the list and continue the conversation with them
[15:30] Kooky Jetaime: I should add in a region history to the jira..
[15:30] Daedalus Young: just like the bumps & pushes
[15:30] Bridie Linden: Hmmm... well about VWR-1132, I'd ask Runitai Linden about this, he added it.
[15:30] WarKirby Magojiro nmdos

[15:31] Bridie Linden: By "it" I mean "planar mapping"...
[15:31] Bridie Linden: this may be how it's designed to work, actually...
[15:31] Kooky Jetaime: Perhaps a "Save IM States across sessions" option War?
[15:31] WarKirby Magojiro: A planar mapping
[15:31] WarKirby Magojiro: I used that in making my armor and shoes
[15:31] Aric Linden: agrees with torley
[15:31] Daedalus Young: I never used "it" anyway
[15:31] WarKirby Magojiro: VERY frustrating to work with
[15:31] Kooky Jetaime: I use it
[15:31] Daedalus Young: results seem odd
[15:31] Bridie Linden: Sadly we don't have better documentation about this, there were forum threads a long time ago.
[15:31] WarKirby Magojiro: is there some logic to the strange pattern it creates?
[15:31] Kooky Jetaime: never got why the Repeats per meter seemed to be mulitplied x10 though
[15:31] Bridie Linden: Sound good to import this and assign to Runitai for further know-how?
[15:32] Daedalus Young: hm yes, but forum is off limits for poor me :P
[15:32] WarKirby Magojiro ndos

[15:32] Bridie Linden: Works for me - Runitai will provide insight
[15:32] Bridie Linden: Thanks! *imports*
[15:32] Daedalus Young: sounds like a tip of the week ;)
[15:32] Fremont Cunningham: Isnt planar mapping onto a curved surface rather like asking for safe dynamite?
[15:32] Bridie Linden: Haha Daedalus.
[15:32] Bridie Linden: Ha
[15:32] Alexa Linden: lol
[15:33] Bridie Linden: Be careful when handling!
[15:33] Bridie Linden: Next up VWR-1132
[15:33] Aric Linden: hmmms
[15:33] Bridie Linden: oops
[15:33] Ciaran Laval: Didn't we just do that?
[15:33] WarKirby Magojiro: we just did 1132
[15:33] Aric Linden: it'd be swell to have steps for this
[15:33] WarKirby Magojiro: : )
[15:33] WarKirby Magojiro: steps for what ?
[15:33] Aric Linden: like, you know, do this, do this, see that
[15:33] Bridie Linden: Let's try that again: VWR-2386
[15:33] Aric Linden: 2386
[15:33] Ciaran Laval: I've seen this
[15:33] Daedalus Young: this also sometimes happens to 'normal' textures, I think
[15:34] Daedalus Young: and by normal, I don't mean 3D normals
[15:34] Ciaran Laval: It seems to intermittently become shapeless goo
[15:34] Aric Linden: torley, do you think it might be worth my time to write a blog entry on writing useful bugs?
[15:34] Aric Linden: I know it's in the wiki, but...
[15:34] Aric Linden: what do you think?
[15:34] WarKirby Magojiro: is this LOD related, perhaps ?
[15:34] Daedalus Young: I know sometimes when the map is opened it reloadds the textures
[15:34] Bridie Linden: Torley wrote a great blog post on that Aric
[15:34] Ciaran Laval: I think Torley's tips should be linked better from the main page in a section all of their own
[15:35] Bridie Linden: Aric: Yeah, what Bridie said, but by all means, if you can improve the wiki documentation and do a refresher, that would be AWESOME... this kind of things need to keep being reminded of...
[15:35] Bridie Linden: http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/07/05/how-to-report-bugs-better/
[15:35] Aric Linden: /nods.
[15:35] Bridie Linden: Thanks.
[15:35] Aric Linden: I'm sorry I never read your posting.
[15:35] Bridie Linden: No worries!
[15:35] Bridie Linden: That just means we gotta make that info more visible. =)
[15:35] Aric Linden now feels terrible and wants to hide

[15:35] Ciaran Laval: They get lost too quickly from the blog, that post deserved a sticky somewhere
[15:35] Bridie Linden: Ciaran: Right now the Video Tutorials have a link from the very front secondlife.com and I agree that more exposure is needed.
[15:35] WarKirby Magojiro: :)
[15:36] Bridie Linden: Awwwe! Don't feel so bad Aric! S'okay! =)
[15:36] Bridie Linden: The funny thing is that I usually mention it here too.
[15:36] Bridie Linden: :)
[15:36] Aric Linden: grins
[15:36] Bridie Linden: Ironies!
[15:36] WarKirby Magojiro: Hi Q
[15:36] London Roff: can i ask something else?
[15:36] Mercia McMahon: btw is a community-editable wiki the best place for issue posting guidelines? It allows someone to put in their pet theiry even when it is not LL policy (e.g., do not report log-in failures)
[15:36] Aric Linden: speaking of which, it'd be swell if this issue had steps for a repro
[15:36] Bridie Linden: But I stopped b/c this crowd has regular folks showing up
[15:36] Q Linden: hi, all
[15:36] Aric Linden: Hi Q
[15:36] Bridie Linden: Hey Q Linden!
[15:36] Bridie Linden: Mercia: We can lock/protect pages if necessary.
[15:36] Bridie Linden: Yo Q!
[15:36] Daedalus Young: hi Q
[15:37] Bridie Linden: I'd say let's resolve 2386 as 'needs more info' and ask for a repro
[15:37] WarKirby Magojiro: minimalist name
[15:37] London Roff: whatdo i need to make stuff.....like i was thinking about making clothes....do i need a certain program?
[15:37] Ciaran Laval: Just rez\ a sculptie chair somewhere, if I still had my store where the guy had this I'd be able to show you
[15:37] Daedalus Young: one of the 26 most minimalist Lindens
[15:37] Bridie Linden: Sounds good to me, Bridie.
[15:37] Alexa Linden: lol
[15:37] Aric Linden: giggles at daedalus
[15:37] WarKirby Magojiro: This isn't a good place to learn basic things, London
[15:38] Bridie Linden: Ok, moving right along...VWR-2351
[15:38] London Roff: oh ok
[15:38] London Roff: didnt know that was basic lol
[15:38] Bridie Linden: VWR-2351 will be touched by the WindLight Graphics Preferences simplification.
[15:38] Bridie Linden: I suggest importing this and assigning to Runitai or Steve.
[15:39] WarKirby Magojiro: seems good
[15:39] Bridie Linden: I was thinking maybe 'won't fix' as it WILL be fixed in a future release...
[15:39] WarKirby Magojiro: how about fixed internally, then
[15:39] Daedalus Young: hm, I think the main issue is that you expect a hover tip to give additional info on what the feature does
[15:39] Bridie Linden: (For context, we think the Preferences > Graphics tabs are way too unwieldy and confusing, and we're going to provide a streamlined slider to move many controls at once, but allow the current "power user" way too.
[15:39] WarKirby Magojiro: that's more logically sound
[15:39] Kooky Jetaime: if its going to be fixed, don't do "Won't Fix"
[15:39] Daedalus Young: but you'll see other functions don't have tips at all
[15:39] Kooky Jetaime: I hate "Won't Fix"
[15:39] Bridie Linden: I think it still needs to be tracked because technically we haven't made this VBO wording change yet.
[15:40] Daedalus Young: it's not Won't Fix, it's Won't Finish :P
[15:40] Bridie Linden: Fair enough Torley
[15:40] Bridie Linden: Just something to keep in mind when we DO do it. :)
[15:40] Bridie Linden: =)
[15:40] Bridie Linden: Good discussion!
[15:40] Bridie Linden nods to Daedalus

[15:40] Bridie Linden: *imports*
[15:40] WarKirby Magojiro: I'd vote for fixed internally, or assigning to steve
[15:40] Kooky Jetaime: To me "Won't Fix" means it works "As Is" if anything changes it should be closed some other way.
[15:40] Kooky Jetaime: Oh, assigned to "WorkingOnIt Linden" perhaps?
[15:41] Kooky Jetaime: I'm guessing thats not a "real" person?
[15:41] Bridie Linden: Yes, good suggestion.
[15:41] WarKirby Magojiro: it's a utility account that all lindens can use
[15:41] Daedalus Young: just like Governor
[15:41] Kooky Jetaime: good.. if that was one person, I'd say give that person a raise since he's getting all the crap.
[15:41] Bridie Linden: Though we do have a Which Linden...
[15:41] Daedalus Young: is it not?
[15:41] WarKirby Magojiro: governor is too ?
[15:41] Kooky Jetaime chuckles

[15:41] Bridie Linden: "WorkingOnIt Linden" is explained in bigger detail on the Issue Tracker info-page, but it's a general "group" account.
[15:41] Bridie Linden: Which Linden is a real person.
[15:41] WarKirby Magojiro: I always thought Governor Linden was philip's alt
[15:42] Bridie Linden: Next, VWR-2367
[15:42] Kooky Jetaime: I see a blockhead
[15:42] Kooky Jetaime: Hi Poppy!
[15:42] Bridie Linden: Governor Linden is mainly used by Land + Concierge Teams nowadays.
[15:42] Ciaran Laval: This is a fun one
[15:42] Bridie Linden: Hey Poppy
[15:42] Bridie Linden: No testing crashing here
[15:42] Poppy Linden: hello
[15:42] Daedalus Young: hi Poppy
[15:42] Ciaran Laval: It won't just be Japanese this effects then
[15:42] Aric Linden: afk
[15:42] Poppy Linden: i am here to test a crash around avatars, don't mind me
[15:43] Kooky Jetaime snickers

[15:43] Kooky Jetaime: Bridie said No..
[15:43] Kooky Jetaime: d
[15:43] Q Linden: we trust you mean a viewer crash
[15:43] WarKirby Magojiro: internationalisation issue ?
[15:43] Bridie Linden grimaces @ Poppy

[15:43] Bridie Linden: :)
[15:43] Bridie Linden: :O
[15:43] Daedalus Young: this is not crash triage anymore
[15:43] Kooky Jetaime: What kind of crash?
[15:43] Ciaran Laval: It's to do with how UTF-8 encodes character sets
[15:43] Alexa Linden: hahaha
[15:43] Kooky Jetaime: Ok, if the sim goes down, meet a poppys place :D
[15:43] Fremont Cunningham: Looks like an excellent bug report to me. Bad string lengths.
[15:43] Ciaran Laval: Only needs 1 byte for US Ascii but more for Greek and Japanese
[15:43] Bridie Linden: Looks like VWR-2367 has good info to import?
[15:43] Bridie Linden: Thanks Fremont, I felt the same way.
[15:44] Alexa Linden: I'll TP Poppy's trees
[15:44] Bridie Linden: Was anyone @ Aric's triage on Monday - Aric? didn't we discuss a similar issue?
[15:44] Aric Linden: sorry, talking to someone IRL
[15:44] Aric Linden: brb
[15:44] Daedalus Young: I can remember something like that yes
[15:44] WarKirby Magojiro: I've lost count of the issues involving texty display
[15:45] Fremont Cunningham: Generall any user entered string size needs to be 3x the number of characters allowed. As opposed to the old english 1x
[15:45] Daedalus Young: oh, I think you mean https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-437
[15:45] Bridie Linden looks for related issue

[15:45] Ciaran Laval: I don't know how you can resolve this
[15:45] Daedalus Young: llSetObjDescription and editor panel have different description string length limits
[15:45] Bridie Linden: Yes! That's the one Daedalus
[15:45] Daedalus Young: that we discussed Monday
[15:45] WarKirby Magojiro: ah, yes
[15:45] Kooky Jetaime starts jigglign a coin.. Blue Linden or Prospero........ why can't y'all just have your own hours? heh

[15:45] WarKirby Magojiro: it gets truncated on editing
[15:46] Daedalus Young: love logs
[15:46] Alexa Linden hands daedalus a gold star

[15:46] Daedalus Young: w00t
[15:46] Daedalus Young: thanks Alexa
[15:46] Alexa Linden: ;)
[15:46] Bridie Linden: Related but different...?
[15:46] Daedalus Young: it's shiny with RenderDynamicReflections
[15:46] WarKirby Magojiro: yes. This is about group notices
[15:46] Daedalus Young: yes, I would agree
[15:47] Aric Linden: afk for a minute
[15:47] Ciaran Laval: So is it an issue with the amount of bytes a message can accept?
[15:47] Bridie Linden: So what should we do next?
[15:47] Daedalus Young: also different because this one's about other character handling
[15:47] Bridie Linden: I linked 'em
[15:47] Bridie Linden: Let's import
[15:47] Daedalus Young: japanese vs ascii vs utf-8 and stuff
[15:47] Daedalus Young: and the Monday one is just an inconsistency
[15:47] Bridie Linden: Got it, Torley?
[15:48] Bridie Linden: Got it.
[15:48] Bridie Linden: Next one: VWR-1124
[15:48] Bridie Linden: (Late comers, click on SL logo)
[15:48] Bridie Linden: Working great BTW, WarKirby!
[15:48] Q Linden: sweet
[15:48] Bridie Linden: See what great Residents we have, Q? :)
[15:49] Bridie Linden: Yeah we totally have a great crowd.
[15:49] WarKirby Magojiro watches the video

[15:49] Q Linden: hey, I'm here to see how it's done...gonna start my own office hrs probably next week
[15:49] Bridie Linden: So glad to have you guys' help.
[15:49] Bridie Linden: Q: Awesome!
[15:49] Bridie Linden: Make sure to add yerself to the office hours page.
[15:49] Daedalus Young: happy to help out
[15:49] Kooky Jetaime: Q - Just try to make sure they arn't during someone elses..... Wednesdays are a good open day
[15:49] Kooky Jetaime: Mondays too
[15:50] Bridie Linden: So with 1124, a few folks can repro, one can't
[15:50] Kooky Jetaime: Wed - 2p :)
[15:50] WarKirby Magojiro: I can't quite tell what the problem is...
[15:50] Daedalus Young: QuickTime won't play it
[15:50] WarKirby Magojiro: ah
[15:50] WarKirby Magojiro: I see
[15:50] Daedalus Young: odd codec
[15:50] Daedalus Young: fmp4
[15:50] WarKirby Magojiro: I'm using VLC media player
[15:51] Daedalus Young: is that Maccable?
[15:51] WarKirby Magojiro: I have no idea
[15:51] Bridie Linden: *tries to watch the video*
[15:51] WarKirby Magojiro: possible
[15:51] Daedalus Young: google says yes
[15:51] McCabe Maxsted: I think there's a mac version out there
[15:51] Mercia McMahon: the person who cannot repo is using a slightly different graphics card
[15:51] Kooky Jetaime: WMP works just fine
[15:51] Daedalus Young: though I would like people to use more standard codecs :P
[15:52] Daedalus Young: mp4 works fine, why use something different?
[15:52] Bridie Linden: I can't view either
[15:52] Kooky Jetaime: Doesn't anyone have WMP?
[15:52] Kooky Jetaime: heh
[15:52] WarKirby Magojiro: VLC plays it fine
[15:52] Daedalus Young: not on mac no
[15:52] Bridie Linden: I'm watching the vid in Media Player Classic with a boatload of codecs (K-Lite)...
[15:52] Kooky Jetaime: I see what he means
[15:52] Bridie Linden: Hmmm yeah it clearly looks like there's a problem.
[15:52] Kooky Jetaime: its like a "Fog"
[15:52] Daedalus Young: yes, vlc, but I watch my vids in-browser :P
[15:52] Kooky Jetaime: not sharp intersections
[15:52] Daedalus Young: anywho
[15:52] McCabe Maxsted: what is the expected behavior of cross sections?
[15:52] Bridie Linden: Shall we import then Torley?
[15:53] Bridie Linden: Yes, sounds like a good one to import.
[15:53] Bridie Linden: McCabe: There should be "sharp intersections" between objects on the same planes, as Kooky mentioned.
[15:53] Bridie Linden: *Imports*
[15:53] Bridie Linden: Ask QA to try and repro first
[15:53] Bridie Linden: Will do.
[15:53] McCabe Maxsted: okay, will try to repro later myself
[15:54] Bridie Linden: Great. Next, VWR-678
[15:54] Bridie Linden: Wait, this sounds like another...
[15:54] Bridie Linden: VWR-1620.
[15:54] Daedalus Young: I'd agree with the comment it's related to packet loss
[15:55] Bridie Linden: I'm pretty sure this is dupe of VWR-1620.
[15:55] Fremont Cunningham: That looks like the antique avatar packet loss problem
[15:55] WarKirby Magojiro: shape distortion, wasn't it ?
[15:55] Aric Linden: back
[15:55] Aric Linden: did you miss me?
[15:55] Daedalus Young: wb
[15:55] Aric Linden: ty
[15:55] Fremont Cunningham: If cant fix the packet loss - Client needs a 'reload avatars' button.
[15:55] Bridie Linden: Indeed, Aric
[15:55] Aric Linden is in a smart alecky mood

[15:55] Aric Linden squints at bridie linden

[15:56] WarKirby Magojiro: I proposed that, actually
[15:56] Bridie Linden: Dupe of http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1620?
[15:56] WarKirby Magojiro: let me find it...
[15:56] blogHUD Messenger: Your image post has arrived at blogHUD.com []: see http://bloghud.com/id/13397
[15:56] Aric Linden: que numero?
[15:56] Bridie Linden: 678
[15:56] Daedalus Young: vwr-678
[15:56] Bridie Linden: Yes, I'm pretty sure it's a dupe of VWR-1620.
[15:56] Bridie Linden: click on logo Aric
[15:56] Bridie Linden: *marks*
[15:56] Bridie Linden: And 1620 has been imported
[15:56] Bridie Linden: VWR-1620 was reopened after much concern... I've reopened the internal counterpart and asked Steve what he thinks.
[15:56] Bridie Linden: I think we're good then
[15:56] Bridie Linden: This has a LOT of history behind it, my friends. =)
[15:57] WarKirby Magojiro: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1573
[15:57] WarKirby Magojiro: Manual de ruth/reload shape option
[15:57] Daedalus Young: ahh, love history :)
[15:57] Bridie Linden: Thanks!
[15:57] WarKirby Magojiro: I was going to propose it, but someone beat me tom it
[15:57] Fremont Cunningham: Its likely that the distorted avatar bug will be hard to repro at LL - too close to servers
[15:57] Bridie Linden: 2 more to go, can we do it?
[15:57] Bridie Linden: Next VWR-2385
[15:57] Daedalus Young: sure
[15:58] Bridie Linden: We'll do our best.
[15:58] Ciaran Laval: Well this one is a yes or no. It does what is says on the tin, so whose going to fix it?
[15:58] Bridie Linden: Hmm
[15:58] WarKirby Magojiro: I'd agree with that, it should
[15:58] WarKirby Magojiro: I do this ofrten
[15:59] McCabe Maxsted: same
[15:59] Bridie Linden: I think this bug is not specific to this single popup... it affects other too.
[15:59] WarKirby Magojiro: accidentally hitting F1, when trying to hit Esc
[15:59] Mercia McMahon: I thought that this issue refers to tinies and therefore it is not about normal av problems but about the tricks used to make a tiny, am I wrong (sory you've moved on but I'll say it anyway)
[15:59] Daedalus Young: yes, I'd like ESC to always hit the cancel button
[15:59] Daedalus Young: equivalently
[15:59] Bridie Linden: Sounds like a good one for Benjamin to look at.
[15:59] Q Linden agrees

[15:59] Fremont Cunningham: Its a medium deficiency.
[15:59] Bridie Linden: Feature request really, then?
[15:59] Kooky Jetaime: Actually
[15:59] Kooky Jetaime: Esc should always apply Cancel
[15:59] Daedalus Young: indeed Kooky
[15:59] Fremont Cunningham: Esc is an established feature
[15:59] McCabe Maxsted: should be a bug
[15:59] Bridie Linden: Add that as a comment Kooky?
[15:59] Kooky Jetaime: I've accidentally teleported home before and have whapped "Esc" outta habit trying to stop it
[15:59] Bridie Linden: Where else in the UI does Esc already close a window?
[16:00] Bridie Linden: I thought Esc often returns focus to chat bar.
[16:00] WarKirby Magojiro: yes
[16:00] WarKirby Magojiro: also, cancelling teleport home doesn't work
[16:00] Ciaran Laval: Closes the chat bar
[16:00] Daedalus Young: while trying to do the "hippos"easter egg, accidentally hit "Go Home" yes...
[16:00] Ciaran Laval: The main chat bar anyway
[16:00] Kooky Jetaime: Warkirby - it does, but you gotta be /FAST/
[16:00] Bridie Linden: Ciaran: Yes, if you press Esc if focus is already in the chat bar.
[16:00] WarKirby Magojiro: it should roll back the teleport regwrdless.
[16:00] WarKirby Magojiro will report that

[16:00] Bridie Linden: So... where else in the UI does Esc already close a window?
[16:00] Ciaran Laval: Ah it moves the focus
[16:01] Bridie Linden: I'm actually not convinced it's part of our current focus model.
[16:01] Ciaran Laval: if it doesn't work
[16:01] Daedalus Young: also Group Notices could use an ESC function :)
[16:01] Fremont Cunningham: Actually Esc fails to defocus the 'Quit' dialog too
[16:01] Kooky Jetaime: Closes the chat bar
[16:01] WarKirby Magojiro: it doesn't
[16:01] McCabe Maxsted: esc closes popups in windows
[16:01] Bridie Linden: Does it on the Mac?
[16:01] Kooky Jetaime: Esc removes focus from floaties
[16:01] Kooky Jetaime: but not closes
[16:01] Daedalus Young: correct
[16:01] Bridie Linden: Why don't we ask Benjamin to discuss @ his next office hour?
[16:01] Bridie Linden: Sounds good to me.
[16:01] Daedalus Young: not all however, the Snapshot window is a different case
[16:02] Ciaran Laval: If I have the communicate window focussed and hit esc focus moves to the main chat bar, the communicate window stays open
[16:02] Bridie Linden: I'd suggest changing this to New Feature since it's not already an established part of our UI.
[16:02] Daedalus Young: also floats over the menu
[16:02] Daedalus Young: and any other UI
[16:02] Bridie Linden: If it was a definite inconsistency then it'd be a bug.
[16:02] Bridie Linden nods

[16:02] Fremont Cunningham: I suspect that the Esc service routine is not aware of some windows
[16:02] Kooky Jetaime: Bridie - Esc also undoes any entered change in a text box with regard to About Land, or Edit window...
[16:02] WarKirby Magojiro: hmm
[16:02] Daedalus Young: intuitively however, esc should trigger cancel
[16:02] WarKirby Magojiro: it doesn't undo name changes of objects
[16:02] Bridie Linden: Anyone object to further discussions w/Benjamin Linden and company?
[16:02] Daedalus Young: rather than defocus
[16:03] WarKirby Magojiro: not at all
[16:03] Fremont Cunningham: F1 and Quit are recently added windows. I was not aware of the Esc interaction...
[16:03] Bridie Linden: I'll import this for Ben's RxTriage too.
[16:03] Bridie Linden: I'd like to get to last one on the list...
[16:03] Ciaran Laval: I think it defocus' because it thinks it's done its task
[16:03] Bridie Linden: OK! ONE MORE!
[16:03] Bridie Linden: VWR-2322
[16:03] Daedalus Young: yay
[16:03] Fremont Cunningham: So stuff probably needs to be added to Esc
[16:03] Daedalus Young: ahh
[16:03] Ciaran Laval: Ok we've mentioned this elsewhere, I think Torley said it should be done,
[16:03] Daedalus Young: we had this at UI triage
[16:03] Ciaran Laval: Or was it Hamilton?
[16:03] Daedalus Young: or general triage
[16:04] Daedalus Young: we agreed on it
[16:04] Bridie Linden: It does ring a bell...
[16:04] WarKirby Magojiro: sounds like a small, simple issue
[16:04] Bridie Linden: Import then, please.
[16:04] Bridie Linden: Cool! We made it!
[16:04] Bridie Linden: Ciaran: I don't think that was me, sounds more like Ben...
[16:04] Bridie Linden: Thx all!
[16:04] WarKirby Magojiro: yay
[16:04] Kooky Jetaime: whoops gotta go
[16:04] Saijanai Kuhn: grats
[16:04] Bridie Linden: It was already imported!
[16:04] Bridie Linden: Congrats everyone!
[16:04] Ciaran Laval: Ah could have been Benjamin Torley
[16:04] Kooky Jetaime: Gonna stop at blues and some other linden I've never heard of
[16:04] WarKirby Magojiro: we completed all fo them ,a dn only 5 mins over time
[16:04] Mercia McMahon: bye
[16:04] Bridie Linden: Fantastic work everyone - much appreciated!
[16:05] Aric Linden: i gotta go
[16:05] Q Linden: bye all
[16:05] Aric Linden: sorry I wasn't much help today
[16:05] Bridie Linden: Look for new RC Viewer sooooonnnnn!
[16:05] Daedalus Young: and we didn't start exactly on time
[16:05] McCabe Maxsted: take care everyone :)
[16:05] WarKirby Magojiro: a new one?
[16:05] Bridie Linden: Bridie I updated the wiki doc.
[16:05] WarKirby Magojiro: yay
[16:05] Bridie Linden: No worries Aric, it's good to have ya hanging out with us.
[16:05] Bridie Linden: HEhe.
[16:05] Bridie Linden: Thx Torley!
[16:05] Bridie Linden: =)
[16:05] WarKirby Magojiro: will this one have the glow feature?
[16:05] Bridie Linden: Can you send me chat history Torley?
[16:05] WarKirby Magojiro has an idea using that already

[16:05] Bridie Linden: Of course Bridie, will do that in a few min.
[16:05] Daedalus Young: so we can have the next official release better and smooth for the blog whiners :D
[16:05] Bridie Linden: That'll be in WindLight WarKirby
[16:06] WarKirby Magojiro: ah
[16:06] Bridie Linden: Later all!