Bug triage/2008-01-21/Transcript

Agenda Transcript of Bridie Linden's office hours:

[12:00]	Squirrel Wood:	not enough stuff on the agenda to set a new record :(
[12:00]	Aric Linden:	we can go for speed, not quantity
[12:00]	Aric Linden:	:-)
[12:00]	Squirrel Wood:	^^
[12:01]	Aric Linden:	did you do the agenda squirrel?
[12:01]	Squirrel Wood:	Me? nope
[12:01]	Aric Linden:	We're not going to have a huge turnout, I fear, since it's a holiday in the states
[12:02]	Squirrel Wood:	No holiday here
[12:02]	Squirrel Wood:	I had to deal with like six or more network outages at work today
[12:02]	Aric Linden:	where are you squirrel?
[12:02]	Untameable Wildcat wonders if she's optimistic to think there might be no Prokofy Neva...
[12:02]	Squirrel Wood:	Austria
[12:02]	Aric Linden:	ahh
[12:02]	Squirrel Wood:	The one where there is no kangaroos ^^
[12:02]	Aric Linden:	it's Martin Luther King day here
[12:02]	Bridie Linden:	And in the UK...http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4187183.stm
[12:03]	Squirrel Wood:	Porky doesn't usually show up on bug triages
[12:03]	Squirrel Wood:	too techy/geeky ^^
[12:03]	Untameable Wildcat grins
[12:03]	Aric Linden:	heh
[12:03]	Squirrel Wood:	Hi Rob!
[12:03]	Aric Linden:	let's start shall we?
[12:03]	Aric Linden:	heya Rob
[12:03]	Rob Linden:	howdy
[12:03]	Bridie Linden:	https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/2008-01-21
[12:03]	Aric Linden:	VWR-2950 is first
[12:04]	Squirrel Wood:	Yes!
[12:04]	Squirrel Wood:	That one really is a problem
[12:04]	Squirrel Wood:	I see it all too often with awgroupies
[12:04]	Squirrel Wood:	Hellu Soft :)
[12:04]	Bridie Linden:	hi Soft
[12:04]	Aric Linden:	well, we have a fix for speeding up group IM's about to go out
[12:04]	Untameable Wildcat:	On occasion I have to send out a group notice several times
[12:04]	Aric Linden:	I wonder if that will help
[12:04]	Untameable Wildcat:	Because it fails
[12:05]	Squirrel Wood:	[12:04] Starting session with AW Groupies please wait.
[12:05]	Aric Linden nods
[12:05]	Rob Linden:	may be a duplicate (/me looks)
[12:05]	Soft Linden:	Hey hey hey
[12:05]	Aric Linden:	I think we could do this one of two ways, either take it in and see if the developer thinks his change has fixed it OR ask folks to check on this when we release the new bits and see if it helps
[12:06]	Aric Linden:	thoughts?
[12:06]	Bridie Linden votes for the latter...
[12:06]	Aric Linden:	Soft?
[12:06]	Untameable Wildcat hasn't noticed the problem so much recently, so would concur
[12:06]	Soft Linden:	What was the issue? I came in late.
[12:07]	Aric Linden:	VWR-2950
[12:07]	Squirrel Wood:	I'd say toss out the new code and let the community complain about the changes ;)
[12:07]	Aric Linden:	hehe
[12:07]	Rob Linden wonders how closely related it is to https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/vwr-1298
[12:07]	Squirrel Wood:	I mean there's people whining about havok 4 and how LL should concentrate on stabilizing the service instead of working on h4 :p
[12:08]	Untameable Wildcat:	Oh, incidentally, related to that
[12:08]	Soft Linden:	So as I understand it, these group IM issues are mostly load related, and should be lessened, if not removed, when they change the group IM system to opt-in instead of opt-out.
[12:08]	Untameable Wildcat:	I did notice when I was running a particular <<N>> wireless network cards
[12:08]	Untameable Wildcat:	that my group IMs always appeared twice
[12:08]	Soft Linden:	ie - you have to explicitly start a conversation with a group, or set a flag that says you want to participate in IM sessions
[12:08]	Untameable Wildcat:	Stopped when I stopped using that particular card.
[12:09]	Untameable Wildcat:	So I figure it's more driver related to that card, and I think I know why
[12:09]	Soft Linden:	That's been discussed by Lindens on sldev already. AFAIK it's slated for 1.19.x
[12:09]	Squirrel Wood:	I have received error messages that my message could not be sent after that exact same message appearing in the group chat...
[12:09]	Aric Linden:	rob, these do look related at the least, dupes at most
[12:10]	Aric Linden:	I think we should leave this for the time being and indicate that there's an improvement coming shortly
[12:10]	Bridie Linden nods
[12:10]	Aric Linden:	and make sure these two are linked
[12:10]	Squirrel Wood:	or toss it out and tell the community to let you know if things have improved?
[12:11]	Soft Linden:	VWR-1298 and VWR-2950 are most likely related, should be linked in JIRA. They both deliver using the same system.
[12:11]	Aric Linden:	jinx
[12:11]	Soft Linden:	Ya.
[12:11]	Soft Linden:	Was wrapping up questions from a coworker in the background. Attention's all here now. :)
[12:12]	Aric Linden:	Let's go on and I'll link those and comment later
[12:12]	Aric Linden:	SVC-1061 is next
[12:13]	Aric Linden:	bridie: didn't we look at this recently in the internal triage?
[12:13]	Untameable Wildcat:	Randomly appearing bugs... the hardest to track down and stomp on
[12:13]	Squirrel Wood:	One cause I think could be that the original parts were linked and then resized to a point where one could not link them anymore due to link distances ?
[12:13]	Aric Linden agrees with Untameable Wildcat
[12:13]	Bridie Linden:	Aric: sound familiar...
[12:13]	Soft Linden:	Well, this one claims to have a repro. That makes it worth an import, I think
[12:13]	Squirrel Wood:	which would result in the behavior described there
[12:14]	Untameable Wildcat thinks Squirrel could well be on to something there
[12:14]	Untameable Wildcat:	If one resized beyond the link distance, would that cause this problem?
[12:14]	Aric Linden:	I don't know.
[12:14]	Soft Linden:	Not sure! That'd be easy to test though.
[12:14]	Aric Linden:	yes. let's take it and I'll have QA play with it
[12:15]	Squirrel Wood:	from what I have experienced is that if you resize past link distance it sometimes will unlink on rez, other times not
[12:15]	Aric Linden:	Bridie, would you mind importing and assigning it to me?
[12:15]	Soft Linden:	Squirrel - could you add a note about that to the JIRA?
[12:15]	Bridie Linden:	np, Aric
[12:15]	Squirrel Wood:	willdo
[12:15]	Soft Linden:	Thanks :)
[12:15]	Aric Linden:	VWR-2364
[12:15]	Bridie Linden:	I was checking internal JIRA for same/similiar issue
[12:16]	Untameable Wildcat:	Nobody has posted what happens with VWR2364 when they go into DXDIag and turn some of the speed enhancements off...
[12:16]	Untameable Wildcat:	I'd be interested to know if stepping down the speed of the card helped.
[12:17]	Aric Linden:	It's very interesting that it's a problem with windlight as well
[12:17]	Aric Linden:	I'd like to take this and have the WL folks poke at it
[12:17]	Soft Linden:	VWR-2364 sure looks like an overheating graphics card. This is exactly what they do when they start to heat up too much.
[12:17]	Untameable Wildcat:	Also, some boards have two PCIE slots for graphics cards, but you MUST put your secondary or booster card (where dual cards are involved) in that special slot
[12:17]	Aric Linden didn't know that
[12:17]	Untameable Wildcat:	I have a motherboard like that
[12:17]	Untameable Wildcat:	It has PCIE, PCI, PCI, Secondary PCIE and PCI slots in that order
[12:18]	Untameable Wildcat:	If you put the secondary booster card in a PCI slot by mistake, that is a common symptom
[12:18]	Evil Titler:	Untameable Wildcat needs a new title! To set it, anyone may say the text on /13. Untameable is not able to change it.
[12:18]	Squirrel Wood:	hmm.... I have yet to install the latest drivers... running on 6 month old ones here on a 7950gt...
[12:18]	Untameable Wildcat:	Looks really fun in World of Warcraft :P
[12:18]	Soft Linden:	Yeah. Modern nVidia SLI relies on the motherboard to provide a bus to bus back channel that only exists for specific slots.
[12:18]	Bridie Linden:	Untameable, would you be willing to add comments/suggestions?
[12:18]	Aric Linden:	It might be useful to add a note about slots to this jira
[12:18]	Aric Linden laughs
[12:18]	Aric Linden:	jinx again
[12:18]	Bridie Linden grins
[12:18]	Untameable Wildcat:	I can do that, yes
[12:18]	Bridie Linden:	ty!
[12:19]	Aric Linden:	thanks. and then I think we should import it and assign it to pastrami
[12:19]	Evil Titler:	No-one gave Untameable Wildcat a new title! Untameable will stay with the existing one for a while more.
[12:19]	Squirrel Wood:	This could also be a heat problem?
[12:19]	Soft Linden:	It's really odd having 20 votes without a huge number of replies.
[12:19]	Squirrel Wood:	I mean without proper cooling two cards produce a LOT of hot air
[12:19]	Untameable Wildcat:	I have a feeling the slots are so far apart to ease heat difficulties
[12:19]	Bridie Linden:	will do Aric
[12:19]	Aric Linden:	VWR-1286 is next
[12:19]	Aric Linden:	ty bridie
[12:19]	Untameable Wildcat:	Since one could easily put a fan-card in a slot in between
[12:19]	Squirrel Wood:	Or the cards are overclocked.
[12:20]	Squirrel Wood:	overclocking can cause this kind of bug
[12:20]	Bridie Linden:	Aren't we waiting on Gigs with 1286?
[12:20]	Soft Linden:	Holding for more info and asking about overclocking would make sense on the last bug.
[12:20]	Aric Linden:	yep
[12:21]	Aric Linden:	all true
[12:21]	Soft Linden:	Gigs says he's waiting on Windlight for this, last comment.
[12:21]	Aric Linden:	so VWR-954 is next
[12:22]	Squirrel Wood:	mac issue
[12:22]	Untameable Wildcat:	Not entirely, Squirrel
[12:22]	Bridie Linden:	old issue, but w/recent comment...
[12:22]	Untameable Wildcat:	There is a sim which used to do that for me
[12:22]	Untameable Wildcat:	Consistantly I mean
[12:22]	Aric Linden:	wow. the reporter stole my name
[12:22]	Untameable Wildcat:	There was a floor in a building that would "flash"
[12:23]	Squirrel Wood:	If you apply textures to a prim too fast it occassionally will flash between them
[12:23]	Squirrel Wood:	but I doubt that this is what is happening here
[12:23]	Untameable Wildcat:	But again I wonder if it's down to rendering, looking at that Jira entry it does seem to be Geforce cards again
[12:23]	Aric Linden likes Bear Moose's comments
[12:23]	Squirrel Wood:	I would request a video demo of thi
[12:23]	Squirrel Wood:	s
[12:23]	Aric Linden:	hmm that's a good idea
[12:24]	Bridie Linden:	And trying w/WindLight?
[12:24]	Untameable Wildcat:	Also - Bear had problems with Vista, and I HAVE met that before, and it's a problem with Vista
[12:24]	Aric Linden:	yes, but I'd also suggest that runitai might have a look at this
[12:24]	Squirrel Wood:	Vista and SL apparently don't like each other all that much :(
[12:24]	Bridie Linden:	Heya Gigs!
[12:25]	Aric Linden:	so I think i'd suggest asking for a video AND importing and assigning to Pastrami
[12:25]	Untameable Wildcat:	Thats because of Vista's filters on graphics as part of their DRM
[12:25]	Bridie Linden:	kk
[12:25]	Squirrel Wood:	heh
[12:25]	Aric Linden:	hi Gigs
[12:25]	Squirrel Wood:	I don't support DRM
[12:25]	Untameable Wildcat:	Did you know with Vista if you hook up a projector to a laptop, it will crash SL immediately
[12:25]	Gigs Taggart:	hi
[12:25]	Soft Linden:	That's a good question - does it ever happen at all with Windlight? If it's not hitting a lot of people very often, depending on the WL release timeframe, that could affect priority.
[12:25]	Aric Linden:	absolutely
[12:25]	Untameable Wildcat:	Or it does mine, anyway. Unhook the projector and it's fine. Use a screen instead of a projector and it's fine. Use a projector, crashes every time
[12:26]	Aric Linden:	Shall we move on?
[12:26]	Soft Linden:	Wildcat, are you using full screen mode? It's possible it doesn't like the resolution you're set at for that. Would be worth starting it in windowed mode.
[12:27]	Aric Linden:	VWR-3021
[12:27]	Soft Linden:	What'st he resolution on the last?
[12:27]	Untameable Wildcat:	I tried both fullscreen and windowed
[12:27]	Aric Linden:	Soft: ask for video repro, import and assign to pastrami for a read through by runitai or bigpapi
[12:27]	Untameable Wildcat:	Nvidia gain...
[12:28]	Untameable Wildcat:	They have had a LOT of driver issues, particularly with Vista
[12:28]	Untameable Wildcat:	In some cases, Vista compatible drivers have broken parts of their XP compatibility
[12:28]	Untameable Wildcat:	Again, I'd like to see if the problems go away by turning down the graphic accellaration in DXDiag
[12:29]	Bridie Linden:	Comment again Untameable?
[12:29]	Untameable Wildcat:	Ok
[12:29]	Squirrel Wood:	3021... crashes do happen for me quite frequently at times... like, every time I have my camera focussed on an avatar that logs out... (have jira'd that one)
[12:29]	Soft Linden:	Torley put a request in on this one for logs. Only one log in there so far.
[12:29]	Soft Linden:	This should be needs info
[12:29]	Aric Linden:	Logs would be good. I agree with Soft
[12:29]	Untameable Wildcat:	Also I wouldn't mind if someone could post maybe fraps or screengrab video of it
[12:29]	Aric Linden:	and Torley
[12:30]	Untameable Wildcat:	Maybe on youtube
[12:30]	Untameable Wildcat:	On one occasion I tried doing that
[12:30]	Untameable Wildcat:	And the video didn't have any of the corruption I was seeing on my screen
[12:30]	Untameable Wildcat:	Which was really odd
[12:30]	Aric Linden:	onto patches
[12:30]	Aric Linden:	VWR-3093 is first
[12:31]	Untameable Wildcat:	I'd like to see 's support
[12:31]	Bridie Linden:	we've discussed this several times...
[12:31]	Untameable Wildcat:	the /me command is a little limited in that respect
[12:31]	Squirrel Wood:	2.- The MU* pose command may be disabled via the AllowMUpose debug setting (positioning this flag to FALSE disables this new feature).
[12:31]	Squirrel Wood:	I think it should be disabled by default.
[12:31]	Soft Linden:	If I remember, we were waiting on votes for VWR-3093
[12:32]	Squirrel Wood:	and enabled by those who want it
[12:32]	Untameable Wildcat nods
[12:32]	Aric Linden:	yep
[12:33]	Aric Linden:	I think we might want to discuss this internally as well
[12:33]	Squirrel Wood:	and once more I see the complains of people that LL should concentrate on more important things than adding some alternative input methods ;)
[12:33]	Aric Linden:	be interested in hearing what phoenix and steve and xylor have to see
[12:34]	Soft Linden:	I'd get rx in the mix too. Adding additional ways of reaching the same feature may raise some hackles there.
[12:34]	Aric Linden:	zactly
[12:35]	Aric Linden:	let's import and assign to triage please
[12:35]	Bridie Linden:	kk
[12:35]	Aric Linden:	while waiting for more votes; that way we can parallel track it
[12:35]	Aric Linden:	VWR-4263
[12:37]	Soft Linden:	This looks like it should go to whoever's doing i18n. I don't think there's a tech decision to be made here - just a correctness of translation decision.
[12:37]	Squirrel Wood:	Duplicate names in XUI files make some translated UI texts to show inappropriately
[12:38]	Aric Linden:	I agree with you Soft
[12:38]	Aric Linden:	let's do that, Bridie, the assignment there is Jaime
[12:38]	Aric Linden:	and thanks!
[12:38]	Squirrel Wood:	dazzle dazzle
[12:38]	Bridie Linden:	got it
[12:39]	Aric Linden gives bridie a big hand for her help here today
[12:39]	Squirrel Wood:	might want to take dazzle into account there too
[12:39]	Aric Linden:	SVC-1229 is next. This seems like an easy one
[12:40]	Squirrel Wood:	yep
[12:40]	Soft Linden:	Oof - yeah, nice catch too.
[12:40]	Aric Linden nods
[12:40]	Bridie Linden:	import and give to?
[12:40]	Soft Linden:	I can take this directly - should just take a second to validate it.
[12:40]	Aric Linden:	triage
[12:40]	Aric Linden:	love soft
[12:40]	Bridie Linden:	soft FTW!
[12:41]	Soft Linden:	\o/
[12:41]	Aric Linden:	VWR-3749 looks as though it's already in progress
[12:42]	Bridie Linden:	did we skip one?
[12:42]	Soft Linden:	Already imported
[12:42]	Soft Linden:	yeah
[12:42]	Bridie Linden:	oh cool
[12:42]	Squirrel Wood:	1210
[12:42]	Squirrel Wood:	bad lsl bug
[12:42]	Untameable Wildcat:	Bug or undocumented feature? ;)
[12:42]	Squirrel Wood:	bug.
[12:42]	Untameable Wildcat grins
[12:43]	Aric Linden grins
[12:43]	Squirrel Wood:	though some griefers would call it a feature
[12:43]	Aric Linden laughs
[12:43]	Squirrel Wood:	a couple dozen of those scripts can eat a sim alive
[12:43]	Aric Linden:	let's take this one, if for no other reason than to grief griefers
[12:44]	Untameable Wildcat snickers
[12:44]	Squirrel Wood:	griefers? Just tell them "You lose" and kick them along with their useless toys ;)
[12:45]	Aric Linden:	let's assign it to triage
[12:45]	Untameable Wildcat:	Pwnage!
[12:45]	Aric Linden grins at Squirrel
[12:45]	Squirrel Wood:	which reminds me...
[12:45]	Aric Linden:	How do you really feel about them?
[12:45]	Soft Linden:	Babbage should be at least a watcher on the imported issue. This fix wouldn't fix it in mono most likely. Don't want inconsistent behaviors there.
[12:45]	Squirrel Wood:	...of my beloved pet issue SVC-1134 ;)
[12:46]	Aric Linden:	Good idea, Soft
[12:46]	Squirrel Wood:	nonphys :p
[12:46]	Soft Linden:	Dang. Normally you can jump through those, destroy the words.
[12:47]	Aric Linden:	um, moving along VWR-2996
[12:47]	Untameable Wildcat:	Aha
[12:47]	Untameable Wildcat:	Seens like a MS bug to me
[12:47]	Untameable Wildcat:	http://support.microsoft.com/kb/817571
[12:47]	Untameable Wildcat:	Should I post advising her to try out all the steps in that MS article before blaming SL?
[12:47]	Squirrel Wood:	these are physical Soft :p
[12:48]	Untameable Wildcat:	Seems from her log that it's returning exactly the socket error that article is mentioning
[12:48]	Aric Linden:	yes please Untameable
[12:48]	Untameable Wildcat:	ok
[12:49]	Bridie Linden:	ty Untameable
[12:49]	Soft Linden:	I'd want to hear that someone's having this problem who isn't running Windows 2003 Server. We don't support that.
[12:49]	Aric Linden:	heh
[12:49]	Aric Linden:	good point
[12:50]	Squirrel Wood:	especially 64 bit server..
[12:50]	Aric Linden:	Might want to call that out as well
[12:50]	Aric Linden:	heh
[12:50]	Untameable Wildcat:	Why are they trying to play games on Windows Server anyway?
[12:50]	Untameable Wildcat shrugs
[12:51]	Bridie Linden:	ark
[12:51]	Bridie Linden:	afk
[12:51]	Soft Linden:	Well, not a lot of OS choices for a Windows gamer who wants >3g memory and doesn't want Vista.
[12:51]	Aric Linden:	are we ready for WEB-102?
[12:51]	Untameable Wildcat nods
[12:51]	Aric Linden:	Let
[12:52]	Soft Linden:	Yeah, this should go to the web guys. We should be supporting international character sets pretty much everywhere but avatar names.
[12:52]	Aric Linden:	let's take this one and assign it to triage
[12:52]	Aric Linden:	I'll pick it up and move it where it should go
[12:53]	Untameable Wildcat:	I'd be interested to see if that error still occurs when people get a unicode by using an ALT key combination, some interesting things have happened to international settings in Vista
[12:53]	Aric Linden:	VWR-4006 can be resolved, I think
[12:53]	Aric Linden:	Untameable, I'll remember to include that in the test plan
[12:53]	Squirrel Wood:	Aye
[12:53]	Aric Linden:	:-)
[12:53]	Soft Linden:	Yup, this was the sdfsdf.com thing.
[12:53]	Bridie Linden:	back
[12:54]	Soft Linden:	Totally resolved
[12:54]	Aric Linden:	yep
[12:54]	Aric Linden:	let's resolve it
[12:54]	Untameable Wildcat:	Interestingly enough, Office 2007 has instructions in publisher to correct a setting which only exists in XP. If you follow the instructions for Vista you find what it describes doesn't exist...
[12:55]	Bridie Linden:	got VWR-4006
[12:55]	Aric Linden:	VWR-4051 is next
[12:55]	Aric Linden:	I'd love to get a repro on this
[12:55]	Untameable Wildcat:	You got one Aric.
[12:55]	Untameable Wildcat:	I mentioned it earlier
[12:55]	Squirrel Wood:	packet loss may be your friend of mayhaps 60,000 people sending messages like crazy ;)
[12:55]	Untameable Wildcat:	D-Link DWA542 Wireless N cards do that
[12:56]	Untameable Wildcat:	And it's got to be driver related.
[12:56]	Evil Titler:	Untameable Wildcat needs a new title! To set it, anyone may say the text on /13. Untameable is not able to change it.
[12:56]	Evil Titler:	Squirrel Wood has set a new title for Untameable Wildcat! Untameable will have to live with this until the next chance for it to be changed.
[12:56]	Untameable Wildcat:	My guess is, if you ask that person what card they're using, it will be that one. I had that problem regularly
[12:56]	Aric Linden:	hmm
[12:56]	Untameable Wildcat:	Vanished the day I changed cards.
[12:56]	Aric Linden:	interesting
[12:56]	Bridie Linden also hmms
[12:56]	Untameable Wildcat looks up at her new title and grins
[12:57]	Soft Linden:	VWR-4051 we've seen before, always with epic-length IMs
[12:57]	Soft Linden:	If the sender and receiver are in different regions, the text shows up in public chat in the destination region. How odd is that?
[12:57]	Untameable Wildcat:	The DWA has two areals to it, I just wonder if it's sending the same packet twice and for some reason SL is picking that up
[12:57]	Untameable Wildcat:	aerials... however you say it :P
[12:57]	Squirrel Wood:	hmm.. may want to limit the length of messages mayhaps? Auto-split ones that are too long into several ones?
[12:58]	Aric Linden:	Untameable, can you comment on this and then we should import it, I think
[12:58]	Untameable Wildcat:	4051 would occur for me with those cards even if the IM was a few words long
[12:58]	Untameable Wildcat:	Ok
[12:58]	Soft Linden:	Yeah. There's supposed to be code doing that. I'm wondering if there's a fencepost error in there. Working for things <1k and >1k but not 2k exactly or the like.
[12:58]	Soft Linden:	Er not 1k exactly
[12:58]	Squirrel Wood:	may be worth checking
[12:59]	Soft Linden:	Anyway, VWR-4051 definitely exists internally. It was assigned to Don at one point. Should be linked to the existing issue
[12:59]	Aric Linden:	k
[13:00]	Aric Linden:	I hate to say it, but I think we're done.
[13:00]	Aric Linden:	Thanks for helping out folks
[13:00]	Bridie Linden:	Yes, thx!
[13:00]	Untameable Wildcat:	I'll do my commenting on issues shortly. Good to be able to help
[13:00]	Aric Linden:	Please drop by again
[13:00]	Untameable Wildcat:	I will :D
[13:00]	Bridie Linden:	I'll import and update and post minutes later!
[13:00]	Aric Linden:	pretty please
[13:01]	Aric Linden grins
[13:01]	Squirrel Wood:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-4012 might be good for an import btw