Content Creation/Scripting User Group/Transcripts/2011 11 07

List of Speakers

Ardy Lay

flexi campfire

Leonel Iceghost

Liisa Runo

Vincent Nacon

Transcript

[09:01] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi): Hey Kelly.

[09:01] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Hi Kelly

[09:01] Vincent Nacon: Kall, fixing some minor things may seem simple but isn't always that simple

[09:01] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Hi...

[09:01] Vincent Nacon: may lead to another bigger issue in the code work

[09:01] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher): hi Kelly

[09:01] Vincent Nacon: like Havok

[09:01] Charlie (charlar.linden): Hi Kallista

[09:01] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Good morning.

[09:01] Charlie (charlar.linden): hey everybody

[09:01] Vincent Nacon: morning

[09:01] Leonel Iceghost: hey there

[09:02] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano): evening

[09:02] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher): sailors will be along shortly, I told them their problem was a scripting bug ;-)

[09:02] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi): >_>

[09:02] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): LL

[09:02] tehKellz (kelly.linden): haha

[09:02] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): =^_^=

[09:02] Vincent Nacon: ban Ima

[09:02] Vincent Nacon: :P

[09:02] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano): ebil Ima

[09:02] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): I'm well aware of the issues involved in fixing things. Telling us to use the non extant llCastRay() for 16 months was not a solution... Nuff said

[09:03] Vincent Nacon: of course... he'd have to suggest something like that

[09:03] Vincent Nacon: because he really can't help you straight away

[09:03] Vincent Nacon: so he gave you a "work around"

[09:04] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): The work around was not yet implemented.

[09:04] Vincent Nacon: yeah, that's the irony of it

[09:04] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): So, Kelly, ready to spill the beans about the new functions in the LR regions or should we prepare the torture instruments?

[09:04] Vincent Nacon: in other words.... wait up.

[09:04] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Kaluura heh.

[09:04] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher): LR regions?

[09:05] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): The game regions.

[09:05] Liisa Runo: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/English-Knowledge-Base/Project-LR-Frequently-Asked-Questions/ta-p/1057471

[09:05] Xentha Contepomi (questar.utu): Silliest thing is that CastRay isn't even really implimented even now, because the limitations make it only useful for one-time use.

[09:05] Vincent Nacon: oh you don't need any torture equipment, just light up a match and tross it over to Char

[09:06] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi): Meany. :p

[09:06] Vincent Nacon: he'll grow back

[09:06] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Char is not whom were interrogating

[09:06] Charlie (charlar.linden): I need to get a Smokey the Bear avi to come talk to Vincent

[09:06] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher): ah yes, I saw a youtube video on that this morning

[09:06] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi): LOL

[09:06] tehKellz (kelly.linden): :)

[09:07] Vincent Nacon: how would you know if Kelly doesn't care about Char? ;)

[09:07] Charlie (charlar.linden): hahaha

[09:07] tehKellz (kelly.linden): So briefly on the server front, Blue Steel is getting promoted this week and the server maintenance branch on LeTigre will get another week on RC.

[09:07] Vincent Nacon: anywho

[09:07] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher): don't worry Charlar, there's plenty of tree-huggers to protect you ;-)

[09:07] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): BTW how many people find Hanze Christian Anderson's fair tails to be really depressing?

[09:07] Vincent Nacon: fire won't protect you

[09:07] Vincent Nacon: :P

[09:07] tehKellz (kelly.linden): There are a couple of oddities in some scripts on letrigre - particularly some that take controls. we have some adjustments going in this week for that.

[09:07] Charlie (charlar.linden): thanks Liisa and Ima

[09:08] Charlie (charlar.linden): I don't think I'm allowed to let you all actually hug me, but you can do it in your minds...

[09:08] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Oh Poop you mean we have to wait another week for the SVC-5927 fix?

[09:08] flexi campfire: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5927

[#SVC-5927] Temp on Rezzed objects get queued

[09:08] Charlie (charlar.linden): lol

[09:08] tehKellz (kelly.linden): yeah

[09:08] Leonel Iceghost: what are the oddities

[09:08] Vincent Nacon: if you can wait 18 months for it... you can wait another week

[09:08] tehKellz (kelly.linden): The responsiveness is "off" - it looks like control events are maybe firing too often

[09:08] Vincent Nacon: I know I know...

[09:09] Vincent Nacon: I've been waiting for other things as well

[09:10] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Our next server maintenance is coming along nicely and should get frozen early this week

[09:10] Liisa RunoLiisa Runo holds breath: i hear that viewer 9 will be cool one

[09:10] tehKellz (kelly.linden): The next server maintenance has SCR-37

[09:10] flexi campfire: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-37

[#SCR-37] llGiveMoney() method needs a money_given() event handler.

[09:10] tehKellz (kelly.linden): And SCR-230

[09:10] flexi campfire: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-230

[#SCR-230] llSetPhysicsMaterial() fails if you don't have modify perms

[09:11] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher): woo hoo

[09:11] tehKellz (kelly.linden): And SCR-147

[09:11] flexi campfire: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-147

[#SCR-147] Timer event fails to trigger following heavy amounts of linked messages

[09:11] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Liisa that's the one that connects directly to Facebook?

[09:11] Vincent Nacon: wait what?

[09:11] tehKellz (kelly.linden): And something fo0r SVC-7324

[09:11] flexi campfire: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7324

[#SVC-7324] Physics stalls every 20-30 seconds

[09:12] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher): will that go to aditi once it's frozen Kelly?

[09:12] Liisa Runo: (no that is v4, but around v6 facebook get banned by international laws so after that one we dont need to worry about that)

[09:12] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Ima: yes.

[09:12] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher): this week?

[09:12] tehKellz (kelly.linden): That is the plan, subject to change.

[09:12] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher): excellent

[09:13] tehKellz (kelly.linden): SCR-37 has some changes since I last talked about it.

[09:13] Leonel Iceghost: Kelly I read a couple of weeks ago that you made something to improve performance when many people using control events at the same time, can you specify how it works?

[09:13] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano): money_given event? does event include result code, agent and amount?

[09:14] tehKellz (kelly.linden): The call is llTransferLindenDollars, which triggers a transaction_result event. The key used will match what shows in transaction history on secondlife.com if the transaction is successful

[09:14] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher): event has ID, status, and message

[09:14] tehKellz (kelly.linden): The transaction_result(key id, integer success, string message) The message is a short identifier string like INVALID_AGENT

[09:14] tehKellz (kelly.linden): On success the message key a CSV <dest_id>,<amount>

[09:15] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano): llTransferLindenDollars - returns ID?

[09:15] tehKellz (kelly.linden): the message is a*

[09:15] tehKellz (kelly.linden): yes

[09:15] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher): but it's llTransferMoney, isn't it?

[09:15] tehKellz (kelly.linden): (leonel I heard you, will talk about that next)

[09:15] tehKellz (kelly.linden): it is llTransferLindenDollars

[09:16] tehKellz (kelly.linden): key llTransferLindenDollars(key id, integer amount)

[09:16] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher): ahh, changed damn, I'll have to update my LSL Editor now

[09:16] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Needs a new call, because of different behaivior

[09:16] Vincent Nacon: augh... awkward function name

[09:16] tehKellz (kelly.linden): sorry.

[09:16] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Next step is llTransferInventory()... Right?

[09:16] F L I P (flip.idlemind): Kind of assumes SL's currency will always be called Linden Dollars

[09:16] F L I P (flip.idlemind): Which might be a safe assumption

[09:16] F L I P (flip.idlemind): Or, might not...

[09:16] Vincent Nacon: it is but still

[09:16] tehKellz (kelly.linden): llTransferInventory is significantly harder

[09:17] Vincent Nacon: money is better

[09:17] tehKellz (kelly.linden): If there is ever something besides L$ transfered with LSL it will need a new function any way

[09:17] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher): agree, ...Money is beter (and shorter)

[09:17] F L I P (flip.idlemind): In the super distant future, people might be like

[09:17] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): I think that that (L$) is a very safe assumption

[09:17] F L I P (flip.idlemind): So, what were "Dollars"?

[09:17] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano): ... maybe we will someday get different kind credits - like "gaming" credits...

[09:18] Vincent Nacon: can't use $ in code work

[09:18] Vincent Nacon: it's against code ethic

[09:18] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): ((short hand for Linden Dollars) ))

[09:18] Vincent Nacon: I know but we can't use it

[09:19] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Whatever the name... We should just be happy something exists. It's always better that nothing...

[09:19] Vincent Nacon: if we do, we'd just call them Credit @Imaze ;)

[09:19] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Please tell that to the DEC VMS people

[09:19] tehKellz (kelly.linden): llTransferLindenDollars is what it is and what it will be. :) If there are credits or something else it will need a new call.

[09:20] Vincent Nacon: don't make me set Char on fire, Kelly

[09:20] Nal (nalates.urriah): What are the challenges with TransInventory?

[09:20] tehKellz (kelly.linden): That's what he's there for Vincent

[09:20] Vincent Nacon: :P

[09:20] Leonel Iceghost: lol

[09:20] F L I P (flip.idlemind): We can always make up our own functions like "TransferMoney" that calls the other function

[09:20] F L I P (flip.idlemind): Of course that's much easier on a viewer with

[09:20] Vincent Nacon: yeah...

[09:20] F L I P (flip.idlemind): LSL Preprocessor

[09:21] Nal (nalates.urriah): They make a fireproofer spray for chistmas trees...

[09:21] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Nal: A money transfer happens within a few seconds, if it takes more than a minute it won't happen (gets cancelled). The entire thing is transactional and works well for giving a dedicated success callback

[09:21] Vincent Nacon: he's a cartoon tree, made of plastic

[09:21] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Inventory gives on the other hand are closer to putting something in the mail. You don't know when they will get it.

[09:21] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher): or IF

[09:22] Leonel Iceghost: if you put a link on the email you know it :P

[09:22] tehKellz (kelly.linden): It also has tougher choices involved, such as should the script know if they decline it?

[09:22] F L I P (flip.idlemind): Nope

[09:22] F L I P (flip.idlemind): Easy answer

[09:22] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Return Reciept Requested.

[09:22] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): The answer is clearly no.

[09:22] Nal (nalates.urriah): Thx, Kelly. oviously we need an intant gratification function to help that along...

[09:22] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Not our problem is ppl decline what they buy...

[09:23] Vincent Nacon: yeah

[09:23] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Well, one of the causes of lost inventory is people who accidentally decline, or were in busy mode

[09:23] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher): not directly, but through transaction_result it would be useful to have a USER_REFUSED result

[09:23] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): What Ima said

[09:23] Nal (nalates.urriah): Will the change to Direct Delivery remove those problems?

[09:24] Leonel Iceghost: maybe the safest way would be to create vendors that use the "output folder" like marketplace will do

[09:24] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Additionally any callback that takes so long the region is very likely to have been restarted is very difficult.

[09:24] Leonel Iceghost: and that will get to the incoming folder

[09:24] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Yeah... Let's hope somebody thought about straightening the pipes for direct delivery...

[09:24] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher): not vendors, but a function that doe sit

[09:24] tehKellz (kelly.linden): It is hard to find the script again when the host may change

[09:24] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano): script doesn't know if customer receives inventory - but it should know if item delivery fails because of some technical reason (but not when user presses cancel button)

[09:24] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): So a response of Received, Failed, Failed_refused, Failed_busy

[09:24] F L I P (flip.idlemind): Some places I go to automatically give you a rules notecard or something. I accept it once, but not every time so my inventory doesn't fill with notecards

[09:24] F L I P (flip.idlemind): I don't want them to be able to be like

[09:24] F L I P (flip.idlemind): You must accept our rules!

[09:25] F L I P (flip.idlemind): No soup for you!

[09:25] F L I P (flip.idlemind): no. no. NO. NO NO NO NO,NO ATHOUSAND F**ING TIMES NO!!!!

[09:25] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Lols

[09:25] F L I P (flip.idlemind): Ooopsies

[09:25] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): =^_^=

[09:25] F L I P (flip.idlemind): Pretend that didn't happen

[09:25] F L I P (flip.idlemind): Gyaahaahah ooooh

[09:25] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Me neither... I hate that...

[09:25] tehKellz (kelly.linden): so the answer to the question is just that it is harder.

[09:25] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Yeah 40 copies of Siba Region rules 23.75 is 39 too many

[09:26] tehKellz (kelly.linden): So lets jump back: Leonel Iceghost: Kelly I read a couple of weeks ago that you made something to improve performance when many people using control events at the same time, can you specify how it works?

[09:26] Leonel Iceghost: be able to use the marketplace api could solve it

[09:26] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano): there should be some alternative for notecard rules

[09:26] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): There is warning to refrain from buying during rolling restarts... It's safe to assume that such a call would fail after a restart.

[09:27] tehKellz (kelly.linden): There were a couple of changes made.

[09:27] tehKellz (kelly.linden): These are on LeTigre now I believe.

[09:27] Leonel Iceghost: how there affect scripts, or sims

[09:27] Leonel Iceghost: those*

[09:27] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): imaze, region rules can be quite complex amounting to 10 or more pages.

[09:28] F L I P (flip.idlemind): If I had a region the rules would be "Don't do anything stupid"

[09:28] F L I P (flip.idlemind): No notecard needed

[09:28] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Unfortunatly stipd is not well defined.

[09:28] Vincent Nacon: you could name your sim that way

[09:28] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): hehehe

[09:28] tehKellz (kelly.linden): We put a cap on the total time the scripts for an agent can trigger. This is the time outside normal script time.

[09:28] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano): I would need two - "Imaze is allways right. Don't do anything stupid."

[09:29] Leonel Iceghost: so script start to fire less times per second?

[09:29] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher): FLIP, added to which: Stupid is at the discretion of the region owner

[09:29] F L I P (flip.idlemind): As the region owner you get to define stupid

[09:29] F L I P (flip.idlemind): Yeah

[09:29] tehKellz (kelly.linden): When you press a key we give your scripts that have control an extra chance to run. This happens in 'agent time'. To prevent abuse we added a cap per framer per agent. It is pretty large right now.

[09:30] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH much is explained.

[09:30] Leonel Iceghost: how much is large?

[09:30] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Let me check

[09:30] F L I P (flip.idlemind): Is that why scripts that take controls still run if scripts are disabled? Because it's only scripts that actually use "script time" that are disabled?

[09:31] Qie (qie.niangao): *oh*... "agent time" -- yeah, that does explain a lot.

[09:31] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Right, disabling scripts on a parcel only stops the script time block.

[09:31] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Leonel: 1ms per frame.

[09:31] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): So... Taking controls allows your script to work in no-script areas and gives it a boost in speed if you press a key... Interesting...

[09:31] F L I P (flip.idlemind): Per agent?

[09:31] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Yes

[09:32] Vincent Nacon: wait... why?

[09:32] tehKellz (kelly.linden): The changes make it so you get at most 1 extra script run per frame.

[09:32] Vincent Nacon: not for vehicle, right?

[09:32] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Vincent for responsiveness of AOs and vehicles.

[09:33] Vincent Nacon: ok but.. only control event?

[09:33] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Weapon scripts already take controls

[09:33] Liisa Runo: controls give speed boost even when keys are not pressed

[09:33] Vincent Nacon: most vehicles need timer event as well

[09:33] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Actually mot gorean regions explicitly disallow wapons to have controls

[09:33] Leonel Iceghost: and again what was the problem with llControlEventMode( ONLY_AT_CHANGE );? it seems a flag to look before the event, why it get complicated in the process?

[09:33] Vincent Nacon: or did you mean only script that has control event is allowed to whole?

[09:33] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Not only the control event. They get an extra chance to run.

[09:33] Vincent Nacon: ok

[09:34] Vincent Nacon: still sounds like potential griefing abuse

[09:34] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Leonel because scripts are complicated. Anything that adds more data to serialize per script is difficult.

[09:34] tehKellz (kelly.linden): There is some potential to use a lot of script time but the recent changes on letigre limit that severely.

[09:35] Vincent Nacon: still don't like the sound of that

[09:35] tehKellz (kelly.linden): And the 1ms is adjustable and we may drop it later.

[09:35] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): I expect that some weapons makers are going to be upset.

[09:35] tehKellz (kelly.linden): This is how it has always been. :)

[09:35] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Kallista: with what?

[09:35] Vincent Nacon: this isn't really about the vehicle and AO, is it?

[09:36] Leonel Iceghost: Kelly and can you limit is depending if the object is actually using the event or not? most take controls but don't handle them

[09:36] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): I'm sure that some of them take controls

[09:36] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): so that they have quicker response under lag.

[09:36] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Leonel: That is an interesting idea.

[09:36] tehKellz (kelly.linden): It is possible.

[09:36] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): In general, weapons take controls... How to detect fire button otherwise?

[09:37] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Right - but why do you think they are going to be upset?

[09:37] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano): current take controls have some useful scenarions in noscript zone - like hiding HUD when user enters to noscript parcel

[09:37] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): is it general control or motion controls?

[09:37] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): There's no difference...

[09:37] Vincent Nacon: personally, I'd hold off this idea till Vehicle get a new API from Falcon and Havok's library source and till *hint* all viewers have AO built-in client.

[09:37] tehKellz (kelly.linden): I'm not sure what you guys think is happening.

[09:38] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Sorry I've not delvd into that part of LSL yet

[09:38] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): You'll take my AO from dead cold hands...

[09:38] Vincent Nacon: No script should be no script, simple as that

[09:38] Ardy Lay: 1ms per frame is enough time that only poorly designed or abusive items should be affected.

[09:38] tehKellz (kelly.linden): 1ms is generally enough time to run ~20 scripts. More if they are 'quick'.

[09:39] Liisa Runo: no script is just a relic from the old times when LL didnt know what to do about SL, later LL realised that noä-script is a stupid thing and made control scripts ignore it. better to just remove option to ruin land with no-script

[09:39] Vincent Nacon: there's a very good chance that people are gonna get setup about control in no script zone

[09:39] Qie (qie.niangao): agreed: no-script is obsolete

[09:39] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): It does make it more difficult for script kiddies to grief

[09:39] Vincent Nacon: even if it doesn't spam much... still could make people angry

[09:40] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Vincent: Could you explain?

[09:40] Vincent Nacon: like posting mature pictures?

[09:40] tehKellz (kelly.linden): We are not changing how scripts act in no-script zones.

[09:40] Vincent Nacon: particle spam?

[09:40] Ardy Lay: Well, scripts that take controls have been able to run in "no script" parcels for years now.

[09:40] Vincent Nacon: sounds spam?

[09:40] Vincent Nacon: come on...

[09:40] Vincent Nacon: it isn't hard

[09:41] Leonel Iceghost: 20 scripts, 22 events per second, 20 avatars = 8800 events per second... it too much already to me

[09:41] tehKellz (kelly.linden): I mean, what upcoming change are you complaining about.

[09:41] Vincent Nacon: allowing scripts work in no-script?

[09:41] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Script kiddie are usually technotwits

[09:41] Ardy Lay: Heh, that's not a change.

[09:41] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): It's nothing new...

[09:41] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Vincent: that isn't changing. We have existing behavior that is going to continue to be the same as it already is on the entire grid.

[09:42] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano): ... next item agenda?

[09:42] Vincent Nacon: yeah but it doesn't mean the potential isn't there

[09:42] Vincent Nacon: anywho

[09:42] tehKellz (kelly.linden): I think that covers the topics I had.

[09:43] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Any one else have pressing questions or topics?

[09:43] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Now, LR functions! Spill it!

[09:43] Qie (qie.niangao): yeah!

[09:43] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano): ya... and when we get more memory for Mono scripts?

[09:43] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Haha.

[09:43] Liisa Runo: more mem ?

[09:43] Vincent Nacon: and of course... it's really a good idea to get people on Client-side AO already.

[09:43] tehKellz (kelly.linden): imaze: I don't know. It isn't currently in development and requires memory limits to be in place.

[09:44] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Speaking of which the Firestorm AO is very good.

[09:44] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): In 2050... That's soon enough... Not important...

[09:44] Vincent Nacon: aye

[09:44] tehKellz (kelly.linden): vincent: I'd love to see non-LSL AOs. Or at least AOs easier on the system.

[09:44] Vincent Nacon: grab it from TPV's library

[09:44] Vincent Nacon: :P

[09:44] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano): bleh... I guess I am forced to split my HUD script to multiple and waste lot's of memory to linked messages :(

[09:44] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Yup. We are well aware of the disadvantages imaze.

[09:45] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): One event to detect animation changes would eliminate the need for a timer...

[09:45] Nal (nalates.urriah): Kelly, Have you looked at FS/PH's AO? And how it affects performance?

[09:45] Leonel Iceghost: and llMessageLinkedTo would help us in the meanwhile :P

[09:45] Qie (qie.niangao): +1 Kaluura

[09:45] Vincent Nacon: yeah and plus the bridge needed

[09:45] F L I P (flip.idlemind): I have kind of an abstract question...is it possible for a region to like..."Mega Crash", and not come back up until someone manually starts it?

[09:45] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano): +1 Leonel

[09:45] F L I P (flip.idlemind): And if so, is there a way to tell the difference between that and a region that's just been deleted

[09:46] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Flip: yes.

[09:46] Liisa Runo: SCR-184

[09:46] flexi campfire: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-184

[#SCR-184] llMessageLinkedTo( "script name"...

[09:46] Vincent Nacon: Leon, you can just assigned link number instead of whole

[09:46] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): You're derailling the conversation... Kelly was about to talk about the LR functions...

[09:47] tehKellz (kelly.linden): scr 184 is a nice idea.

[09:47] Vincent Nacon: oh script name hmm

[09:47] F L I P (flip.idlemind): What would llRequestSimulator data show for a deleted region? "down" or "unknown"? (Or something else)

[09:48] Vincent Nacon: maybe not script name but with key?

[09:48] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano): if llMessageLinkedTo is someday implemented - I want to have list type parameter on it.

[09:48] tehKellz (kelly.linden): As described it will still use the link_message event and thus not have a list type parameter

[09:48] Liisa Runo: why not wscript name? lot more easy compared to key

[09:49] Leonel Iceghost: list for sending to many strings? or list as a param to pass

[09:49] Vincent Nacon: because... I could drop in a script with same nam.... err actually... hmm

[09:49] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano): list as param to pass

[09:49] tehKellz (kelly.linden): names on object contents are unique

[09:49] Vincent Nacon: could remove the script and replace it with my script with same name

[09:50] Liisa Runo: is that a problem?

[09:50] Vincent Nacon: if you say I could make the prim no mod.... then we wouldn't need it

[09:50] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): It's not different from the spying on link messages that you can do right now... No need to worry about it. If you do that, you just break the object too.

[09:51] Vincent Nacon: some time you have to break something to hack

[09:51] tehKellz (kelly.linden): It is certainly no worse than the current version that sends the message to all scripts in the prim in that regard Vincent.

[09:52] Vincent Nacon: eh?

[09:52] Leonel Iceghost: anyway the Kaluura idea to make a animation change event would help things that are not AOs, like custom weapons and sport games

[09:52] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Any way, targetting one specific script would be any improvement... Even if it does not improve the "security"... which is any way all relative.

[09:52] tehKellz (kelly.linden): right now llMessageLinked sends to all scripts in a prim. If you can replace a script with the same name you could add a new script and eaves drop

[09:53] tehKellz (kelly.linden): For AOs I think I'd rather give a way to replace the default animations and not require an event at all.

[09:53] Vincent Nacon: yeah

[09:53] Leonel Iceghost: that too!

[09:53] Liisa Runo: llMessageLinkedTo is not for security, it is for giant performance increase

[09:53] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Just a way to say 'this is now the animation for running'

[09:53] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Yeah! I vote for that too!

[09:53] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher): yes pleazzzzzzzze

[09:54] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): That would be a HUGE win but where are the default animations stored?

[09:54] Vincent Nacon: I understand but it's nice to have some anyway

[09:54] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano): okay... Kelly was just telling us sekret LR information...

[09:54] Charlie (charlar.linden): WHAT!

[09:54] F L I P (flip.idlemind): Remind me what LR is

[09:54] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Yeah... It's time now...

[09:54] Charlie (charlar.linden): it's nothing

[09:54] Liisa Runo: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/English-Knowledge-Base/Project-LR-Frequently-Asked-Questions/ta-p/1057471

[09:55] tehKellz (kelly.linden): I heard on LR regions there are scripted objects. Top secret info: all scripts on LR regions are compiled to *mono*. I think.

[09:55] Leonel Iceghost: xD

[09:55] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano): Oooo...

[09:55] Liisa Runo: and it currently has stuff like TP agent and attach that dont require any perms, and Kelly will now tell us more

[09:55] tehKellz (kelly.linden): I must plead the fifth in this case. For now.

[09:56] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Pfffrrrrt!

[09:56] Leonel Iceghost: Kelly one thing games need is to know the gender of players? we need llGetGender(Id)

[09:56] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher): I'd be happy with llGetSex()

[09:56] Vincent Nacon: muhaha!

[09:56] Ardy Lay: Heh

[09:57] Vincent Nacon: llGetGender()

[09:57] Leonel Iceghost: in some languages it is reeeaaaly hard to send a message to someone without proper words, and llGetGender is needed

[09:57] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): that means an llSetGender()

[09:57] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano): should it return float type or integer type?

[09:57] Ardy Lay: Reminds me of a comic I read some time ago.

[09:57] F L I P (flip.idlemind): So Kelly there's a region that I fear was deleted, but Im also looking into the possibility that it just "Mega Crashed". Is there any way I could determine that on my own?

[09:57] Leonel Iceghost: lol

[09:57] Liisa Runo: float

[09:57] Vincent Nacon: no need for that, Kall

[09:57] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): a vector?

[09:57] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): =^_^=

[09:57] Vincent Nacon: can be detected by shape type

[09:57] Liisa Runo: vector? eeeeeeew, maybe for zindra

[09:57] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Flip: I think you need to go to support or concierge.

[09:58] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Not really... Shape type is not accurate. A lot of AV have a female shape because it can be smaller.

[09:58] Vincent Nacon: I think he meant script wise

[09:58] Ardy Lay: Gender type should be rotation. ;-)

[09:58] F L I P (flip.idlemind): llRequestSimulatorData shows it to be "down". Do you know if that's what a deleted region would show?

[09:58] tehKellz (kelly.linden): If shape type is not accurate, what are you hoping this function would return?

[09:58] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): 4 elements?

[09:58] tehKellz (kelly.linden): I don't know actually flip.

[09:58] Leonel Iceghost: Kaluura it can be a new option, or like display language if you don't want to share it is your choise

[09:59] Vincent Nacon: wait what? rotation for what?

[09:59] Ardy Lay: He wants to be able to select proper pronouns.

[09:59] Vincent Nacon: shape size?

[09:59] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Being 'deleted' is more of an account status thing than a region status thing.

[09:59] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): vector are 3 elemts Rotarions are 4

[09:59] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): There is new debug settings in FUI... I saw it... Something gender something...

[09:59] Vincent Nacon: bust, hips, bottom?

[09:59] F L I P (flip.idlemind): Oh btw it's a mainland sim...kinda

[09:59] Ardy Lay: frame of mind

[10:00] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher): I'd still like a MAC function, no not OS X related ;-)

[10:00] Leonel Iceghost: Kellz we need to fix the msgs we give in our huds.. in some languages it becomes hard to talk to women, and you end saying things like "you are a good boy"

[10:00] Vincent Nacon: McDonald related?

[10:00] F L I P (flip.idlemind): And these are all questions I wanted to ask at last Friday's meeting but I...couldn't get in for some reason ?.(?)

[10:00] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher): lol no

[10:01] tehKellz (kelly.linden): The user group on friday was a bit busy. ~120 across 2 regions.

[10:01] Ardy Lay: Yeah, I just bailed out and waited for the transcript.

[10:02] Vincent Nacon: wasn't there a reason why we can't have llGetGender() function? wasn't it because it had potential sexual harrassment?

[10:02] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano): ya... I hope that Andrew figures out what is causing problem and how to fix it

[10:02] Ardy Lay: Was funny to see my shout at the beginning.

[10:02] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher): well, my theory is that the problem is.. sailors

[10:02] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): 100 Sailors and 20 Working girls

[10:02] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher): get rid of the sailors, no problem ;-)

[10:02] Leonel Iceghost: hahaha

[10:02] F L I P (flip.idlemind): Yeah but with a transcript you can't retroactively ask a question during the meeting...unless they're perfected time travel already

[10:03] Vincent Nacon: I just told my racing folks about it and told them that I've very proud of them not acting like sailors

[10:03] Ardy Lay: My question was answered almost immediatly by Andrew.

[10:03] Nal (nalates.urriah): For a large meeting it went well.

[10:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Times up for today. Thanks everyone for coming. Have a good week.

[10:04] Leonel Iceghost: thanks Kelly

[10:04] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano): thanks kelly

[10:04] Nal (nalates.urriah): Thx Kelly

[10:04] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher): thanks Kelly, Charlar

[10:04] ?????-----o-----????? (imaze.rhiano): thanks Charlie