Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2012.10.26
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List of Speakers
| Andrew Linden | Ardy Lay | Barrington DeSantis |
| Dahlia Trimble | Jane1 Bookmite | Jonathan Yap |
| Kennylex Luckless | Lucia Nightfire | Motor Loon |
| Nalates Urriah | Rex Cronon | Simon Linden |
| SonicAnd Miles | TankMaster Finesmith | Theresa Tennyson |
| Tiberious Neruda | Toysoldier Thor |
Transcript
[16:01] Toysoldier Thor: hello all
[16:01] Nalates Urriah: Hey Toy
[16:01] Toysoldier Thor: I will only get to stay for part of the meeting - a major concert starting right now as well
[16:01] Kennylex Luckless: Andrew... Go fix Internet, it not work for me :-)
[16:01] Toysoldier Thor: PS - if u Lindens want to possible witness one of many busy sim crashes.... u might witness one this hour if u came
[16:02] Simon Linden: Have you tried unplugging everything, offering sacrifices, and plugging it back in?
[16:02] Barrington DeSantis: Sod....and rl calls.
[16:02] Toysoldier Thor: there is 43 there now and will likely end up being about 70
[16:02] Andrew Linden: Ok I'll get right on that Kennylex.
[16:02] Ardy Lay: Cleaning optical fiber connectors by licking them is not productive.
[16:02] Kennylex Luckless: Yes, I did unplug internet, but then it was even harder to surf.
[16:03] Andrew Linden: Starting with trying to make some small improvement to the SL interestlist.
[16:03] Ardy Lay: Andrew, does that mean I will need to fill in my interests in my profile to see anything?
[16:04] Andrew Linden: So, my code is still up on the aditi grid (Ahern) and you can see it not working there.
[16:04] Motor Loon: lols
[16:04] Andrew Linden: Although, it is working a little better this week.
[16:04] Andrew Linden: There is a bug where some linked sets don't all show up... missing child prims.
[16:04] Andrew Linden: I'm working on that one now.
[16:05] Motor Loon: putting linkset pictures on milkcartons?
[16:05] Andrew Linden: Yesterday I had a bug... sim performance for a crowd of 32 avatars went bad... by about 1000%.
[16:05] Andrew Linden: I fixed that one this morning.
[16:06] Andrew Linden: Originally I was hoping to actually make performance improvements.
[16:06] Ardy Lay: Some would say that happens on the main channel on Agni.
[16:06] Andrew Linden: Now I'd just be happy to reach performance parity, but with cleaner code.
[16:06] Andrew Linden: I'm partly joking, but only partly.
[16:07] Andrew Linden: Some benchmarks... yeah parity would be nice.
[16:08] Theresa Tennyson: You could try putting it on Aditi-Morris this week - that probably gets the biggest crowds.
[16:08] Andrew Linden: Anyway, that is what I'm working on, and I'm making some progress.
[16:08] Andrew Linden: Yeah, not until I've killed the known bugs.
[16:08] Andrew Linden: However, whenever I enter this region, the floor of this house is one of the last things to load.
[16:08] Toysoldier Thor: put it on the help / welcome sims
[16:08] Toysoldier Thor: ;)
[16:08] Simon Linden: sorry, brb, need to look at a bug
[16:09] Andrew Linden: I'm hoping to improve the sorting somewhat.
[16:09] Andrew Linden: Bummer, I was going to have Simon talk about pending updates and kick back for a few min...
[16:10] Andrew Linden: ok, so what is getting updated? I'll look for info in my email.
[16:10] Simon Linden: ... back
[16:10] Simon Linden: I can discuss the rollouts and rollbacks
[16:10] Andrew Linden: Go ahead Simon.
[16:11] Simon Linden: On Wednesday things didn't go smoothly as we rolled a maintenace update out
[16:11] Simon Linden: It turns out there was a slight change to the behavior for llSensor(), and it no longer returned objects sorted by distance
[16:12] Simon Linden: As a result, some SL pets had trouble finding their food, and some, umm, partners to make other SL pets
[16:12] Simon Linden: So that was rolled back
[16:12] Dahlia Trimble: OMG no food or love :(
[16:12] Simon Linden: It was sad, indeed
[16:12] SonicAnd Miles: if im in that pic it will be L$500 lol -jk
[16:13] Kennylex Luckless: YES, starving horses!
[16:13] Simon Linden: However, the large group work Baker did had some people eager to try it out
[16:13] Simon Linden: So we set up a few regions running that
[16:13] Lucia Nightfire: it also affected combat apps, defense apps and security apps too
[16:13] Rex Cronon: greetings:) oops. almost forgot to come:)
[16:13] Lucia Nightfire: but it was first brought to attn with the breedables
[16:13] Simon Linden: yeah, it was a bad change
[16:14] Simon Linden: If you open up the Map window and search for "Snack" you'll find 4 sandboxes with that new code
[16:14] Theresa Tennyson: They look like HUGE blondie-brownies.
[16:15] Simon Linden: I'll defer all questions like that to Oskar
[16:15] Simon Linden: I guess that wasn't a question, but I think they're his
[16:16] Simon Linden: That has been good, however, as we found that some of the operations people would then do on large groups were causing trouble
[16:16] Simon Linden: Kelly and I spent most of today fixing those
[16:16] Simon Linden: It's scheduled for another try at an RC channel next Wednesday
[16:16] Simon Linden: The sensor problem has been fixed
[16:17] Andrew Linden: hrm... there seems to be a texture problem with the map generator
[16:17] Simon Linden: The code that's on LeTigre now will get another update with some fixes too
[16:17] Motor Loon: oh joy
[16:17] Simon Linden: There isn't a 3rd version ready
[16:18] Simon Linden: On Tuesday next week the code that's in BlueSteel and Magnum today is getting promoted to the main channel
[16:19] Simon Linden: That has no externally visible changes but has some system level adjustments
[16:19] Simon Linden: That's it for server release news
[16:19] Andrew Linden: Ok, I guess the table is open.
[16:20] Toysoldier Thor: ok Siman and Andres.... BUG 355.... any one lookin at the network issues on the sims
[16:21] Toysoldier Thor: keep racking up the evidence that the network layer on the sims or platform are staling out... and large event sims keep crashing or staling
[16:21] Simon Linden: I want to see the code that's going to RC next week get out there ... I think it has fixes for some of the conditions that get your regions messed up like that
[16:22] Rex Cronon: could it have something to do with region idiling?
[16:22] Andrew Linden: Which RC is that Simon? Magnum? or BlueSteel and LeTigre?
[16:22] Toysoldier Thor: i have someone watching the event right now with about 70 ppl at it now
[16:23] Simon Linden: It should go onto Magnum
[16:24] Lucia Nightfire: Has there been any progress on caps failing? I've had a particular region lose caps everyday for the past 5 days. In fact I just filed a ticket on it and Reed Linden just now got caps turned back on. I was told its a simulator host issue.
[16:24] Toysoldier Thor: CAP falling?
[16:24] Toysoldier Thor: IM cap?
[16:25] Lucia Nightfire: regions failign to grant capabilities
[16:25] Simon Linden: We've looked into it and there are a few different causes. The code that's rolling to the main grid next week has some work for one of those
[16:25] Andrew Linden: Magnum appears to be scheduled to pick up a maintenance project that has been in the works for a long time.
[16:25] Toysoldier Thor: ohh yes that problem
[16:25] Lucia Nightfire: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-498 <---for those who can read jira pages you can see what all is impacted as I reported it there
[16:26] Lucia Nightfire: the most notible is that prim return is impossibel for everyone
[16:26] Toysoldier Thor: yes i saw that last weekend - the owner of an art gallery sim could not return a prim to an out going artist
[16:27] Toysoldier Thor: the artist had to come and take it
[16:27] Andrew Linden: We'll see what happens on Magnum. We think we made an improvement there, but we know that not all modes are closed. We're still working on the various causes.
[16:27] Simon Linden: yeah, that's a lot of trouble
[16:27] Ardy Lay: I get annoyed when inventory cannot be dragged to the ground when HTTP Inventory is enabled but can when it is not.
[16:28] Ardy Lay: Is that this related?
[16:28] Lucia Nightfire: afaik, no
[16:28] Simon Linden: Hmm, I'm surprised there's a difference there
[16:29] Andrew Linden: Ardy, you mean when you disable HTTP inventory on your viewer the rez works, but it fails when you enable HTTP inventory?
[16:29] Theresa Tennyson: Sometimes with HTTP inventory it never stops "loading" even when all your items are accounted for.
[16:29] Toysoldier Thor: u can select that as an option?
[16:29] Ardy Lay: WHen the disallowed symbol shows up I disable HTTP Inventory then try again a short time later and it works.
[16:30] Ardy Lay: Andrew, yes.
[16:30] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is half over
[16:31] Andrew Linden: Ok, I _think_ that is related to failing CAPs, so we hope it will happen less often on Magnum after Wed's update.
[16:32] Toysoldier Thor: Simon.... when could we get a response on the VLM development priority scheduling?
[16:32] Ardy Lay: Andrew, thanks.
[16:32] Toysoldier Thor: are VLMs a 2013 planned development?
[16:32] Toysoldier Thor: longer?
[16:32] Toysoldier Thor: shorter?
[16:33] TankMaster Finesmith: vlm?
[16:33] Simon Linden: I can't give you any predictions on that one, Toy. It's on a list of features that would be nice to have
[16:33] Andrew Linden: VLM = virtual landmarks
[16:33] TankMaster Finesmith: ah
[16:33] Toysoldier Thor: ohh i dont like hearing "nice to have"
[16:33] TankMaster Finesmith: just like large regions would be 'nice to have' ;)
[16:34] Toysoldier Thor: and when will LL figure out the failing notice Attachments problem... this is real annoying ... STILL
[16:34] Ardy Lay: Maybe, if we can't have larger regions we should make everything else smaller.
[16:34] TankMaster Finesmith: lol
[16:34] Simon Linden: It's much more possible (and a lot easier) than large regions
[16:35] Jonathan Yap: There are multiple issues with Attachments in notices -- I did an analysis of that about 2 years ago
[16:35] TankMaster Finesmith: scale everything down to 1/10 the current size :P
[16:35] Lucia Nightfire: micro cities
[16:36] Toysoldier Thor: i think LL is still trying to figure out if its a Sim or Viewer issue
[16:36] Jonathan Yap: Toysoldier -- it is both, but mostly a sim issue, made worse by viewer 2 changes
[16:36] Jonathan Yap: The real fix will need changes at both ends
[16:36] Toysoldier Thor: viewer 2? seems like it showed up with viewer 3
[16:37] TankMaster Finesmith: same thing
[16:37] Toysoldier Thor: ohh
[16:37] Jonathan Yap: no, it was always present, but viewer 2 made it worse
[16:37] Andrew Linden: what is the "failing notice attachment problem"?
[16:37] TankMaster Finesmith: 3.x was used just because they were almost out of 2.x #s to use
[16:37] Toysoldier Thor: well it seemed to explode in visibility this summer
[16:38] Toysoldier Thor: it should be a priority to fix
[16:38] Lucia Nightfire: I thought 3.3 started with mesh release
[16:38] Jonathan Yap: Andrew, you sign in, get a group notice with an attachment, try to get the attachement, and ... nothing
[16:38] Lucia Nightfire: *3.#
[16:38] Toysoldier Thor: before performance improvements
[16:38] Jonathan Yap: I think Kelly (or Simon?) looked into this a while ago and saw what was happening on the server
[16:39] Toysoldier Thor: its horrid Andrew! and u cant click on the attached in the group window either after the notice is not able to offer it to u
[16:39] Jonathan Yap: Part of the trouble are stale/expire session IDs
[16:39] Simon Linden: yeah, I seem to remember a problem with something timing out on those notices
[16:39] Toysoldier Thor: after being online for a while - the problem during the session seems to go away
[16:40] TankMaster Finesmith: after 1h of the GN displayed, the item is no longer avalible
[16:40] TankMaster Finesmith: and you have to reopen the GN to get to the item
[16:40] Jonathan Yap: Tank, that is the server expiring the session ID
[16:40] Andrew Linden: Ok, I won't comment on that bug. I don't know much about what is going on there.
[16:40] Toysoldier Thor: but terrible for club and concert venue hosts and store owners ... trying to send out LMs or notecards for something happening live
[16:41] TankMaster Finesmith: i know, thats what simon was thinking of i think
[16:41] Jonathan Yap: I think if a region crashes the session ID is lost, too, so it might be < 1 hr
[16:41] Toysoldier Thor: and the UI knows the attachment is not available since it shades out the buttons
[16:41] Jonathan Yap: There are viewer UI issues as well
[16:42] Nalates Urriah: I hate all the semi-dead LM's and Attachments I cannot open just after login...
[16:42] Toysoldier Thor: agreed Nal.. I have to just delete them and then use the SEARCH to find where the LM is
[16:42] Rex Cronon: how can landmark be semi-dead?
[16:42] Rex Cronon: landmarks*
[16:43] Toysoldier Thor: because as an attachment - it cannot be clicked on
[16:43] Jonathan Yap: You can go to the group notices panel and get them that way, but that is pretty tedious
[16:43] Ardy Lay: Send SLURLs in the notices? I hate all that landmark clutter building up in inventory.
[16:43] Toysoldier Thor: its in the notice or the group info but unusable
[16:43] Nalates Urriah: Rex, It won't open when clicked on... but in some cases will go into inventory. It can be clicked in inventory and then it works.
[16:43] Simon Linden: It's a matter of linking up what's in the notice back to the actual landmark
[16:43] Toysoldier Thor: i have a solution for that Ardy..... VLM s !!!
[16:43] Toysoldier Thor: lol
[16:43] Ardy Lay: Nope
[16:43] Ardy Lay: THose look like they will pile up too.
[16:44] Rex Cronon: they need an expiration date:)
[16:44] Jonathan Yap: And the fact that the viewer now records notices, so they are there when you log in again, only makes it worse
[16:44] Ardy Lay: Rex, I might get one I want to keep.
[16:45] Toysoldier Thor: ok well i wanna catch 15 minutes of this show.....
[16:45] Toysoldier Thor: later all....
[16:45] Rex Cronon: ok we need a temp folder, everything in it gets deleted if it gets older than one week. if u want to keep something u move to different folder
[16:46] Rex Cronon: tc
[16:46] Toysoldier Thor: PS simon - if someone at LL can update JIRA BUG 355
[16:46] Toysoldier Thor: it would be nice
[16:46] Toysoldier Thor: have a good weekend all
[16:46] Simon Linden: What do you want added? That we think the next code will help?
[16:46] Ardy Lay: Rex, I just rarely click the attachments so hadn't noticed the bug.
[16:46] Nalates Urriah: bye Toy
[16:46] Toysoldier Thor: bye Nal !:)
[16:48] Ardy Lay: I could have "updated" it but, yeah, what to put there?
[16:48] Lucia Nightfire: On the release notes theres this: "Thanks to a newly added capability the simulator can now report information about script permissions granted to objects within a region. A future viewer update will use this. " Can you elaborate on what all this entails?
[16:49] Lucia Nightfire: Release notes for Magnum
[16:50] Simon Linden: ah, yeah, that's pretty nice ... there's a new window that lists objects in the region that have been granted permissions by you
[16:50] Simon Linden: So you can find anything that has animate permissions, for example
[16:50] Andrew Linden: So that window is sitting in some beta viewer Simon?
[16:50] Jonathan Yap: Is there going to be a corresponding "revoke permission" control?
[16:51] Simon Linden: It's not in a beta viewer yet, but it's in the backlog of changes we have waiting for the current beta to get out the door
[16:51] Lucia Nightfire: and a possible block permissions from owner, sort of like a mute for any future granted permissions handling?
[16:52] Lucia Nightfire: that basically will shine for perms grabbers, heh
[16:52] Jonathan Yap: You should already be able to block the object
[16:52] Simon Linden: Yes, there will be a "revoke" button
[16:52] Jonathan Yap: \o/ Simon, wonderful news
[16:52] Simon Linden: It doesn't block anything - it will just tell you what you've granted permissions to
[16:52] Lucia Nightfire: I mean a hands off, automatic approach, not having to do it for every object the owner rezzes, such as with perms grabbers
[16:53] Jonathan Yap: I think if you block the owner you also block those messages
[16:53] Lucia Nightfire: I could though be out of the loop on how revoke recently works as I haven't had to ue it ever afaik
[16:53] Lucia Nightfire: *use
[16:53] Rex Cronon: can we also have a lsl function that gets this list:)
[16:53] Tiberious Neruda: what about blocked avatars and getting group invites through?
[16:53] Simon Linden: That has nothign to do with script permissions
[16:54] Tiberious Neruda: you can mute avs, but they'll still be able to send you group invites (like bots are commonly used for)
[16:54] Rex Cronon: maybe somebody wants to retaliate against those that steal their perms:)
[16:54] Rex Cronon: automatically:)
[16:55] Ardy Lay: Chart went nuts
[16:55] Jonathan Yap: Tiberious, I thought I had fixed that one....maybe not, or maybe it is stalled at the approval stage
[16:55] Rex Cronon: although somebody might endup shooting simon if one of his chairs doesn't release the anim perms;)
[16:55] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is almost over
[16:55] Simon Linden: Interesting - it did. That thing has been running for ages
[16:56] Ardy Lay: It could have been accurate. I don't know.
[16:56] Ardy Lay: I just thought it looks like it went nuts.
[16:57] Theresa Tennyson: It felt like I was frozen for a second.
[16:59] Andrew Linden: That was real sim lag that the chart was noticing.
[16:59] Andrew Linden: I didn't see an obvious cause. I'll have to dig into the logs for more clues.
[17:00] Simon Linden: That chart looks so much better when I let it draw more particles
[17:00] Andrew Linden: I've fallen behind on posting the transcripts to the simulator user group.
[17:00] Andrew Linden: I'm going to try to update the transcripts after this one.
[17:00] Meeter: Thank you for coming to the Server User Group
[17:01] Jonathan Yap: Thank you Simon and Andrew
[17:01] Rex Cronon: u need a script to do it andrew
[17:01] TankMaster Finesmith: thx for your time, simon and andrew
[17:01] Andrew Linden: yeah, I have a script that does some of the work
[17:01] Andrew Linden: but I need to make the script better.
[17:01] Theresa Tennyson: See everyone later!
[17:01] Nalates Urriah: THx Lindens
[17:01] Rex Cronon: tc all those leaving
[17:01] Simon Linden: Thanks everyone for coming today and the good chat
[17:02] Jane1 Bookmite: thanks Simon !
[17:02] Rex Cronon: tc andrew simon
[17:02] Rex Cronon: tc everybody and have a nice day:)
[17:02] Kennylex Luckless: No, go fix Internet so I can post images :-D
[17:02] Kennylex Luckless: now.
[17:02] Kennylex Luckless: :-)
[17:02] SonicAnd Miles: cya everyone :)
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