Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2014.06.17

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List of Speakers

Adamburp Adamczyk Chainsword Audion Ebbe Linden
Hexapoda Inara Pey Jenna Felton
Jonathan Yap Kelly Linden Lucia Nightfire
Mona Eberhardt Nalates Urriah Oz Linden
Simon Linden Stikku Habsburg Techwolf Lupindo
Yuzuru Jewell

Transcript

[12:01] Simon Linden: Hi everyone

[12:01] Bagheera: oops sorry

[12:01] Bagheera: hello

[12:01] Nalates Urriah: Hey Yuzuru

[12:01] Hexapoda: Hello Mr Simon.

[12:01] Inara Pey: Hi, Simon. sorry, I nicked your recliner...

[12:02] Simon Linden: I really need to code that to save my seat ... maybe do something interesting :)

[12:02] Shug Maitland (shug.maitland): lol

[12:02] Simon Linden: Anyway, welcome Everyone

[12:02] Simon Linden: This week's server releases are discussed on the forum : http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Second-Life-Server/Deploys-for-the-week-of-2014-06-16/td-p/2750304

[12:03] Simon Linden: Group ban has been promoted to the main channel, which is good news

[12:03] Bagheera: oh sweet !

[12:03] Simon Linden: With the RCs getting updated tomorrow, that will be grid-wide

[12:03] Mona Eberhardt: Great news, and not a second too soon.

[12:03] Jenna Felton: hello all

[12:03] Adamburp Adamczyk: simon,. im me about that, you might find it interesting

[12:04] Simon Linden: I believe there's a new link that should be in the viewer downloads for an updated project viewer

[12:04] Simon Linden: ... but I'm not sure exactly when that viewer will be out

[12:05] Oz Linden: later today or early tomorrow, I believe

[12:05] Simon Linden: Thanks Oz

[12:05] Mona Eberhardt: Hey Whirls.

[12:05] Hexapoda: What next, changelings?

[12:05] Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Kelly.

[12:05] Simon Linden: The RC updates tomorrow are not big ... they are basically getting the group ban code

[12:05] Seewo (siwo): actually I have a changeling too ^^

[12:05] Hexapoda: :D

[12:06] Lucia Nightfire: "Includes a new anti-griefing measure" <--this bold statement is interesting

[12:06] Simon Linden: I'm sure a few of you are curious about LeTigre which has "a new anti-griefing measure" but I can't get into details

[12:06] Lucia Nightfire: lol

[12:06] Simon Linden: Jinx :)

[12:06] Mona Eberhardt: Speaking of griefing and anti-griefing, has there been any progress on that HTTP bomb thing?

[12:07] Simon Linden: No Mona, nothing to report there

[12:07] Mona Eberhardt: okies

[12:07] Simon Linden: That's it for news ... Oz, did you have anything?

[12:07] Oz Linden: nothing of note

[12:08] Simon Linden: ok - the table's open for topics or questions then

[12:09] Bagheera: *raises hand*

[12:10] Hexapoda: :)

[12:10] Simon Linden: Go ahead, Bagheera

[12:10] Shug Maitland (shug.maitland): come on Lindens, tease us some more about what you aren't talking about :P

[12:10] Bagheera: I recently received a notecard about a bug created by Pathfinding

[12:10] Bagheera: and I wanted to find out more about it, as my regular alt has recently be put in charge of managing a 5 sim estate

[12:11] Simon Linden: Has someone filed a bug report on it?

[12:11] Bagheera: specifically, my question is, how much does it affect terraforming & if so, what are good stop gap measures

[12:11] Bagheera: I don't know, my understanding is the problem has been around for a while?

[12:11] Oz Linden: how much does pathfinding affect terraforming?

[12:12] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): Is it when the region reached the memory allocated limit and closes down rezzing?

[12:12] Jonathan Yap: We need a description of the problem

[12:12] Oz Linden: bear in mind that we have not read the notecard

[12:12] Mona Eberhardt: Bagheera, which bug are you referring to? Is it the memory allocation thing?

[12:12] Nalates Urriah: It doesn't.... unless I am miss understanding

[12:12] Seewo (siwo): is it something about the thing when you have to rebuild sim's paths after terraforming?

[12:13] Bagheera: what the notecard said is that it changed the way the terraforming is done - pardon me - lol - I thought this was well known - and the problem it causes is terraforming affects teh entire sim even when only a small part is being changed

[12:13] Adamburp Adamczyk: oh, and on a brief side note, I'd liejk to take a small moment to wish Simon a VERY happy birthday

[12:14] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): Can I see the NC?

[12:14] Bagheera: let me get the notes from my alt, happy birthday Simon, please continue without me.. I'll be better prepared in a few minutes

[12:14] Bagheera: yes of course

[12:14] Nalates Urriah: Bagheera, I think you got bad info. Can you give us a copy of the NC?

[12:14] Bagheera: yes, just a moment, please

[12:14] Jonathan Yap: Well, first, the region in question has to have pathfinding enabled

[12:14] Mona Eberhardt: I may well be wrong, but I suspect Bagheera might be referring to the fact that terraforming and then updating the navmesh eats up the memory that can be allocated, to the point where you can't rez anything new on the region. If that's the case, a region restart fixes it.

[12:14] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): Yeah that one is still a real pest and doesn't matter if PF is enabled or disabled

[12:14] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-772

[12:15] Simon Linden: Yes, and thus continual terraforming is a quick way to hurt your region

[12:15] Seewo (siwo): isn't it normal behavior?

[12:15] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): It didn't happen before we had pathfinding

[12:16] Seewo (siwo): viewer will warn you that PF is broken after all

[12:16] Simon Linden: I'm not sure what you're asking, Seewo .... it's expected that terraforming causes the navmesh re-bake. It has to do that because the ground has changed

[12:16] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): Well, maybe it did but not as regularly as its seen now

[12:16] Simon Linden: The resulting problems of doing it over and over aren't good, however

[12:17] Seewo (siwo): yes, that thing Simon :) so it sort of natural that terraforming breaks it :)

[12:18] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): Some regions seem to need a restart every 8 hrs or so because of it though. I guess they must have some scripted object rezzed that dirties the navmesh.

[12:18] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): If no one manually bakes the region, doesn't it rebake itself every so often?

[12:18] Shug Maitland (shug.maitland): so if we do a significant amount of terraforming we should restart the region before continuing with whatever we are building?

[12:19] Simon Linden: I don't know about that, Whirly ... I thought it was only when a change was made

[12:19] Mona Eberhardt: Not exactly, Shug.

[12:19] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): I mean if a change has been made

[12:19] Adamburp Adamczyk: i restart my hoemstead during a major project

[12:19] Jenna Felton: not sure if this is writen somewhere. is the pF linkset property, static obstacle, movable obstacle and so on, is this stare reset on rez or you can take it into the rez box?

[12:20] Jenna Felton: state*

[12:20] Mona Eberhardt: If you do a significant amount of terraforming, it's advisable that you do NOT rebake the navmesh before you're done. And when you've rebaked, do a region restart.

[12:20] Mona Eberhardt: Because, if you rebake repeatedly, you'll eat up the memory that can be allocated and you won't be able to rez a thing.

[12:20] Mona Eberhardt: Did I explain it correctly, Whirly?

[12:21] Simon Linden: I know the problems are particularly bad on homesteads since they are tighter with memory

[12:21] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): and if you resize something already rezzed, it will turn phantom heh

[12:21] Oz Linden: I believe that if you make region change that would affect the navmesh, and then stop making changes for long enough, the region will rebake on its own, but I forget how long "enough" is

[12:21] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): I forgot too

[12:21] Mona Eberhardt: Could it be the time that remains until the weekly rolling restarts, Oz? ;)

[12:22] Oz Linden: :-)

[12:22] Jenna Felton: i beleive it was discussed and the suggestion was to do it when no one is on the sim

[12:23] Jenna Felton: but i dont know if this suggestion was accepted

[12:23] Seewo (siwo): mainland never rebakes navmesh on its own :P

[12:23] Mona Eberhardt: I think it's best to do it when the region (preferably a homestead) is full of people, especially full of people trying to rez stuff. ;)

[12:23] Bagheera: lol

[12:23] Mona Eberhardt: Just to annoy the hell out of them.

[12:24] Simon Linden takes notes

[12:24] Shug Maitland (shug.maitland): and test the new "earthquake" warning system

[12:25] Simon Linden: I do like that viewer shake now

[12:25] Lucia Nightfire: still scares teh crap out of me

[12:25] Simon Linden: it gets your attention, that's for sure

[12:25] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): But you never miss a restart now right? :P

[12:25] Mona Eberhardt: Meh. What's a heart attack between friends?

[12:25] Seewo (siwo): viewer shake? :o

[12:25] Shug Maitland (shug.maitland): bug is that boobies don't shake :P

[12:26] Jonathan Yap: When region restart messages come in the scene "shakes" for a moment

[12:26] Jenna Felton: the linkset property remains upon taking in inventory and rezzing

[12:26] Jenna Felton: i.e. a permanent rezzer can cause permanent navmesh dirtiness

[12:27] Shug Maitland (shug.maitland): WB Inara

[12:27] Mona Eberhardt: Welcome back, Inara.

[12:27] Seewo (siwo): oh... I guess Singularity doesn't such thing... there is just Torley saying to "get out from oblivion"

[12:27] Inara Pey: Thanks, all ?

[12:27] Seewo (siwo): *doesn't have

[12:27] Lucia Nightfire: I want an option that I can assign "TP to this landmark" when the region I'm in is restarting for when I'm afk, but not explicitly in Away status, lol

[12:28] Simon Linden: I'll let someone code that in the viewer :)

[12:28] Jenna Felton: first time as that happens i was scared by shaking the screen :)

[12:28] Jonathan Yap raises a wing :p

[12:28] Jenna Felton: Lucy, that is good suggestion

[12:28] Simon Linden: what's up, Jonathan?

[12:28] Lucia Nightfire: I only miss that when I'm afk or I have my sound muted and am working in another window

[12:28] Jonathan Yap: I could code that suggestion

[12:29] Simon Linden: What happens when the 2nd region restarts? I assume you'll want this to keep you on the grid during a full roll while afk

[12:29] Jenna Felton: you could go trough the favorites folder and try to go to the first one

[12:29] Jonathan Yap: and how soon would you want the TP to take place?

[12:30] Lucia Nightfire: yeah, I'll need a list of 9 alternates too, lol

[12:30] Jonathan Yap: You might not want to get shot off right away

[12:30] Jenna Felton: when you can request the state of target regions, you could look in the favorites for the best region to accept

[12:30] Jenna Felton: than you dont need a new folder for escape regions

[12:30] Stikku Habsburg: ohno

[12:30] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): Catznip has this feature http://catznip.com/index.php/File:CatznipR9.0-4.png

[12:31] Simon Linden: It sounds like that'll keep Jonathan busy for a while :)

[12:31] Oz Linden: I don't thing we want any form of auto-teleport... the support folks would be driven crazy by the calls from people who didn't know that they had it turned on

[12:32] Bagheera: yes

[12:32] Lucia Nightfire: those unsavy feature users

[12:32] Lucia Nightfire: kind of why the automute settings weren't exposed I guess, lol

[12:32] Jonathan Yap: you could save the auto teleport to the last 15 seconds

[12:32] Jonathan Yap: since you would be logged out soon afterwards

[12:33] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): If you're the last to leave a restarting region you will likely get disconnected anyway :P Though that doesn't happen as much to me since there was a fix for that but it does still happen.

[12:34] Hexapoda: Auto TP on server restart sounds like something that will cause problems.

[12:34] Jonathan Yap: It is not that onerous to log in again -- what would be the use case?

[12:34] Simon Linden: It does seem to be a pretty esoteric need

[12:35] Jenna Felton smiles

[12:35] Lucia Nightfire: just poped in my head a few min ago, idk, lol

[12:35] Lucia Nightfire: *popped

[12:35] Faith (khelone): like playing a game, to try and jump ahead of the restart wave

[12:35] Shug Maitland (shug.maitland): send everyone to the Arapaima Safe Hub °?°

[12:35] Hexapoda: But would it not be posible to get an error code from system events so user can use them to make own automatic systems?

[12:35] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): If you have fave landmarks showing its no effort just to click one to get out heh

[12:35] Lucia Nightfire: I woke up early for teh bib news on teh bold anti griefer statement which wasnt' delivered

[12:35] Faith (khelone): or behind, or whichever way

[12:35] Hexapoda: Have*

[12:35] Jonathan Yap: I'd be more interesting in seeing actions performed after a successful teleport, such as opening the mini-map

[12:35] Lucia Nightfire: ie, Lucy is still sleepy

[12:35] Lucia Nightfire: *big

[12:36] Jenna Felton: is it actually possible to freeze the viewer, and suspend the session, so as soon the region is back on again, the session resumes and you are unfrozen and continue from where you stoped?

[12:36] Oz Linden: no

[12:36] Lucia Nightfire: not unless the region restarts in less than 100 sec

[12:36] Jenna Felton: that could be cool than ,,, ok

[12:36] Jonathan Yap: no, the viewer has a timeout timer

[12:36] Lucia Nightfire: and I've only seen that weirdness once afaik

[12:37] Hexapoda: A WILD EBBE!

[12:37] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): o.O

[12:37] Lucia Nightfire: with one of those rare and mysterious split second restarts

[12:37] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): Is that...the real..... Ebbe?

[12:37] Simon Linden: all the scripts on your attachments also change state ... the closest thing to that is really logging out and back in again

[12:37] Jenna Felton: ok, i see

[12:37] Simon Linden: Hi Ebbe, glad you made it :)

[12:37] Hexapoda: No, it is just a cut out :-)

[12:37] Jonathan Yap: It might be nice to get a notice "The region you just left has restarted"

[12:37] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): Wow. Hello Ebbe.

[12:37] Ebbe Linden: Hi

[12:37] Simon Linden: Welcome to the server user group

[12:37] Seewo (siwo): :o

[12:38] Jonathan Yap: Hi Ebbe, thanks for dropping in

[12:38] Lucia Nightfire: are you staring at my boobs, Ebbe?

[12:38] Lucia Nightfire: and hi

[12:38] Lucia Nightfire: lol

[12:38] Mona Eberhardt: Hi, Mr. Ebbe.

[12:38] Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Ebbe.

[12:38] Bagheera: I have noticed my media stream stays persistent and even when I am fully logged out - if I log back in while the media stream is still playing, my return if virtually instantaneous (occasionally)

[12:38] Bagheera: is*

[12:38] Jenna Felton: hi Ebbe

[12:38] Adamburp Adamczyk: yo ebbe, happy birthday

[12:38] Ebbe Linden: :)

[12:39] Adamburp Adamczyk: Ebbe, a BIG thank you for the return of G-Team

[12:39] Stikku Habsburg: Hi. I've recently learned of Jira as of about a week ago, and have since submitted three Feature Requests for LSL, I believe this features would be pretty paramount in delivering new experiences to SL that could positively affect how SL could be interacted with.

[12:39] Techwolf Lupindo: Give ebbi time to rez everything. ;-)

[12:39] Jenna Felton: do you have the link Stikku? now i am curious

[12:39] Simon Linden: Yes, let's not totally hammer him :)

[12:40] Stikku Habsburg: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-6325

[12:40] Adamburp Adamczyk: agreed :)

[12:40] Stikku Habsburg: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-6352

[12:40] Stikku Habsburg: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-6346

[12:40] Simon Linden looks

[12:40] Stikku Habsburg: My first request was "Accepted" by another linden but wasn't assigned to anyone, but I thought I'd bring it up here as well.

[12:41] Hexapoda: I has a material/prim question.

[12:41] Simon Linden: Stikku - I remember looking at those, at least the camera one

[12:41] Shug Maitland (shug.maitland): Ebbe, check your shirt alpha °?°

[12:41] Hexapoda: Is it posible to get a LI warning system that can switch from prim to convex hull if LI for standard prim go over 25 LI?

[12:41] Jonathan Yap: Sometimes jira requests go into their internal system

[12:41] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): Issues in BUG don't generally get an assignee. Issues get imported to their internal JIRA projects and worked on there.

[12:42] Mona Eberhardt: Hexapoda, if it's about LI, materials and toruses, then...

[12:42] Stikku Habsburg: I think SL scripted "games" could be all the more endearing and unique if they had certain abilities to make them 'seem' more like a traditional video game.

[12:42] Simon Linden: I think there are some interesting ideas in there but we'll have to sort through it ... you put in a lot of things

[12:42] Stikku Habsburg: yeah hah, well there's not much there in terms of the current flags for Camera controls

[12:42] Mona Eberhardt goes to fetch her tanto, a white kimono, and a cup of sake.

[12:42] Stikku Habsburg: had to fill in the gaps

[12:43] Oz Linden: with respect to the lists-in-lists issue, you might want to look at using json: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Json_usage_in_LSL

[12:43] Kelly Linden: I don't know a lot about the lsl camera system internals, so can't really comment too much on that one. It is an old system and I don't know how extensible it really is.

[12:44] Stikku Habsburg: Is lists-within-lists out of the question?

[12:44] Simon Linden: The input controls are tough ... I think SL is a good platform to experiment with other input devices. I did some Leapmotion work and we have the Occulus Rift support coming along

[12:44] Lucia Nightfire: probably out of the question as link hierarchies, lol

[12:44] Simon Linden: yeah, I don't think we're going to touch the internal design of LSL if we can help it

[12:44] Kelly Linden: The controls change is very difficult. The controls are connected to the direct input to the simulator from the viewer, and all the meaningful ones are passed on to LSL. Adding new ones would require re-architecting what and how controls and keypress are sent to the server and how they are used.

[12:45] Kelly Linden: Lists in lists in lsl are nearly impossible.

[12:45] Faith (khelone): no dictionary data type in it either

[12:46] Simon Linden: There are lots of suggestions about the LSL language itself :)

[12:46] Stikku Habsburg: Well, I'm not sure if it's worth it or not for the long term. But I do believe it would greatly improve a scripters ability to deliver unique experiences, rather than SL mostly just being show-and-tell

[12:46] Shug Maitland (shug.maitland): re. Camera: we could use a whole set of presets (buttons/HUD?) : standard/RL proportion/petite avatar --- normal/upatairs/downstairs/straight ahead view.

[12:47] Mona Eberhardt: Perhaps some interoperability with FIPA ACL would be nice for scripted intelligent agents.

[12:48] Stikku Habsburg: I have another friend currently online who once wanted to make an RC car racing game, but had to abandon it because of the limitations of the current CameraParameters

[12:49] Lucia Nightfire: the setcameraparams function lacks a focuslocalpos reference for a focus key or pos option

[12:49] Stikku Habsburg: I also have put my own project on hold because I don't feel it would be complete without a more adaptable camera

[12:49] Lucia Nightfire: so you can't auto track a target by script other than yourself

[12:49] Lucia Nightfire: without resetting the angle repeatedly

[12:50] Simon Linden: OK Seewo, I'm reminded :)

[12:50] Seewo (siwo): o:)

[12:50] Simon Linden: That explains the camera usage a lot clearer

[12:50] Jonathan Yap: Some of these ideas might be better addressed with a viewer scripting language

[12:51] Lucia Nightfire: I've had games I could not implement either due ot having to set new angles ever 0.01 sec to attempt to make it smooth, but its still choppy and excessive on script time

[12:51] Simon Linden: That would be a wonderfully big project, Jonathan :)

[12:53] Jenna Felton: i think the viewer.side script language is much more hard that escape-to-LM-in-favorites-when-region-restart problem :)

[12:53] Jenna Felton: to implement

[12:54] Oz Linden: much much

[12:54] Shug Maitland (shug.maitland): but oh-so-much more interesting °?°

[12:54] Chainsword Audion: good evening

[12:54] Simon Linden: I know it's far-fetched, but I've wanted something like that for a "put away my build" and "bring it back" functionality

[12:55] Simon Linden: Like put all the holiday decorations away, and restore them next year

[12:55] Stikku Habsburg: Chainsword here is the friend I was referring to, who wanted to make an RC car game given camera controls had more functionality

[12:55] Chainsword Audion: ah yes, lsl camera permissions

[12:55] Simon Linden: We've imported that feature request, Stikku ... it's on our list of suggestions

[12:55] Stikku Habsburg: great

[12:55] Chainsword Audion: I had no idea there were active lindens inworld anymore

[12:55] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): Simon! If LL fixed restore to last position to work correctly, that would fix that problem :D The code is still there in the official viewer, its just commented out.

[12:56] Chainsword Audion: its good to see this

[12:56] Simon Linden: I added a note to our copy explaining the RC car game as a sample ... that idea explains it pretty clearly

[12:56] Lucia Nightfire: it should only require two additional fields, target key and target local pos offset

[12:56] Simon Linden: I know Whirly, and the support staff would hunt me down. That is an interesting feature until it all goes bad

[12:56] Hexapoda: A personal question to Ebbe: Has you learn how to build in SL and when will we see you creations here in Linden village?

[12:56] Lucia Nightfire: *focus target key

[12:57] Adamburp Adamczyk: Chainsword, that's a welcomed returning feature - we have Ebbe to thank on that one

[12:57] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): Its a really useful feature. But yes, you have to use it with care

[12:57] Chainsword Audion: I never understood the camera control limitations

[12:57] Faith (khelone): maybe make linksets interact with it, so you can take or store or create things, or maybe like "levels" (building block, collection, folder)

[12:57] Ebbe Linden: I have not made more than a box or two yet...

[12:57] Chainsword Audion: you need to grant them permission anyway, why the attached object/sat upon object restriction?

[12:57] Jonathan Yap: Restore to last position could be made smarter/safer -- only restore to the parcel your things came from, and only then if the size has not changed

[12:58] Hexapoda: It is a begining, just keep build :)

[12:58] Shug Maitland (shug.maitland): try a torus, they are way more fun

[12:58] Simon Linden: I would like someday to see if it could be brought back but somehow made safer ... it really was a bad problem for support and the people that had trouble with it

[12:58] Bagheera: OH, what until you hollow a box lol - your life will change (mine did)

[12:58] Faith (khelone): also maybe add tags or something like so you could label it with "i was working on this for this", and use that so you don't duplicate things

[12:58] Ebbe Linden: :)

[12:58] Jonathan Yap: And you could beacon them, too

[12:59] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): Remember to add materials to your hollowed and cut torus :D

[12:59] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): That was a joke btw, don't do that heh

[12:59] Shug Maitland (shug.maitland): lol whirly

[12:59] Bagheera: evil jira lol

[13:00] Assistant: All Go

[13:00] Oz Linden: time for my next meeting .... bye all

[13:00] Simon Linden: We're about out of time ... thanks everyone for coming this week

[13:00] Mona Eberhardt: See you, Oz.

[13:00] Jonathan Yap: Thank you Simon, Kelly, Oz, and Ebbe for being a surprise drop-in

[13:00] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): Ty Lindens

[13:00] Seewo (siwo): I personally prefer cubes with materials ^^ ...they looks so innocent

[13:00] Bagheera: Thank you so very much !

[13:00] Mona Eberhardt: Thanks Lindens, and Ebbe.

[13:00] Kelly Linden: o/

[13:00] Nalates Urriah: Thx Lindens

[13:01] Simon Linden: Thanks for the good chat and suggestions

[13:01] Ebbe Linden: Great to see this crew here...

[13:01] Shug Maitland (shug.maitland): thanks everyone, good discussion

[13:01] Chainsword Audion: nice to be here

[13:01] Faith (khelone): thanks, bye

[13:01] Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you, Simon and Kelly and Ebbe.

[13:01] Jonathan Yap: Ebbe, this is usually a lively meeting

[13:01] Jenna Felton: Thank you Lindens and all for the meeting and have a good week :)

[13:01] Ebbe Linden: I'll sit for a bit in case someone wants to ask questions (less geeky ones....)...

[13:02] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): Wow. How awesome is this guy? lol

[13:02] Simon Linden: lol ... is that the first question? ;)

[13:02] Hexapoda: Ebbe, hur Svensk är du?

[13:02] Seewo (siwo): less geeky? ...does anyone actually read abuse reports?

[13:02] Ebbe Linden: Totalt svensk

[13:02] Hexapoda: :D

[13:03] Mitch (mitch.guardian): Ebbe, I want to thank you for bringing the G-Team back, PeaceKeepers are getting awesome results from them

[13:03] Mona Eberhardt: I was about to ask just that, Seewo - there is a bunch of people whose sole purpose in SL is to harass others through whatever means they have (especially on the free-for-all feeds and forums), and they seem to have total impunity and immunity.

[13:03] Jonathan Yap: I don't follow the forums so maybe this question is redundant: is there any new plan to bring back choosable last names?

[13:04] Mona Eberhardt: And I can name names, actually.

[13:04] Ebbe Linden: we chase the bad ones and shut them down as fast as we can...

[13:04] Shug Maitland (shug.maitland): okay Ebbe, a more social point: you may notice you stand out because your mesh shirt is missing the underlying alpha, that is the kind of (admittedly silly) thing that would elicit helpful comments in almost any SL gathering.

[13:04] Seewo (siwo): like Tizzers Foxchase for example? in all the many alts and forms...

[13:05] Ebbe Linden: last names...it just seems to be a bigger project than one would think and keeps getting bumped by higher priorities...

[13:05] Jonathan Yap: The last time it was tried the reason not to proceed was having them caused user retention issues

[13:05] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): Hmm I see his shirt fine. Firs over the avi mesh okay

[13:05] Mona Eberhardt: Seewo, I think the "Crimes Against Convention" gang is even worse than Tizzers.

[13:05] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): *fits

[13:05] Ebbe Linden: I'm using whatever default avatar, maybe not the latest....

[13:05] Nalates Urriah: What is happening with Experience Tools?

[13:05] Lucia Nightfire: lol

[13:05] Jenna Felton: Than we need a kind of sugestions for last names, for example suggested on forums and selected when new, nice and distinct enough

[13:05] Shug Maitland (shug.maitland): Last names are always near the top of most residents social problems list

[13:06] Seewo (siwo): I guess depends on who you encounter :D I usually meet just twh or pn

[13:06] Bagheera: you might try doing a rebake of your avatar....that will usually fix the problem quickly

[13:06] Hexapoda: Well, even Ebbe is here I will go back to Natoma and build, see you all later.

[13:06] Hexapoda: Tack care.

[13:06] Mona Eberhardt: See you, Hexapoda.

[13:06] Ebbe Linden: Experience tools are getting closer...Simon may know better how close....we just did a big test of them earlier today...but I'm not sure when they'll be ready for prime time...soon I hope...

[13:07] Nalates Urriah: Yay!

[13:07] Shug Maitland (shug.maitland): what exactly ARE "experience tools"?

[13:07] Mona Eberhardt: Any chance for SL's default camera settings to receive some love?

[13:07] Simon Linden: It's getting closer but I'm not familiar with the plans on making them available for others

[13:07] Bagheera: yes please, what are experience tools?

[13:07] Jenna Felton: I am awaiting for experience tools too very much :)

[13:08] Simon Linden: They're a set of functions and permissions that lets someone build a more immersive experience

[13:08] Bagheera: oh sweet !

[13:08] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): Oh one thing Id like to bring up actually, is the problems with the new starter avatars. They will appear buggy and stretched out to anyone with an AMD card who does not have advanced lighting model enabled. This is not a good first impression for a new SL user. Updating to the latest AMD drivers will not fix the problem. Bug report is here https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-5156

[13:08] Jenna Felton: the tools to create environments like Linden Realms

[13:08] Shug Maitland (shug.maitland): hmmmmmm, very politicly answered °?°

[13:08] Lucia Nightfire: more policy answered, ;)

[13:08] Simon Linden: So things can happen that won't nag you with permissions -- you opt-into the experience, for example, and a few regions later it can still animate you without re-asking all the time

[13:09] Seewo (siwo): anyway... I will just this thing in here... a marketplace store which for third month sells copybotted avatars... https://marketplace.secondlife.com/stores/139002

[13:09] Bagheera: oh yes..okay, I remember reading about those a while back.. I like the opt in/opt out aspect :) Makes them flexible :)

[13:09] Mona Eberhardt: Whirly is right; those of us whose AMD GPUs are restricted to the "legacy" drivers are left outside alone - mostly thanks to AMD (whose GPUs I no longer recommend, mainly because of its driver policy).

[13:09] Simon Linden: We've definitely seen that one, Whirly ... I think Alexa was talking about it

[13:10] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): Heh probably

[13:10] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): Heres is random collection of reports by new users having problems with the new starters https://jira.secondlife.com/issues/?filter=16598

[13:10] Jenna Felton: i am needed other place... have a good time and good rest of the week everyone :)

[13:10] Ebbe Linden: Thanks.

[13:10] Ebbe Linden: later!

[13:11] Simon Linden: Thanks for coming, Ebbe

[13:11] Mona Eberhardt: Thanks Ebbe!

[13:11] Yuzuru Jewell: I am happy to see you, Ebbe.

[13:11] Shug Maitland (shug.maitland): re. new avatars; can we expect more sliders to work in time

[13:11] Inara Pey: Good seeing you again, Ebbe ?

[13:11] Ebbe Linden: Shug? Sliders work now....

[13:11] Shug Maitland (shug.maitland): not all of them

[13:12] Ebbe Linden: Hi Inara!

[13:12] Ebbe Linden: face?

[13:12] Inara Pey: Sorry, was AFK ?

[13:12] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): WEll not all of them. You can't for example mod your face with the sliders like you can with a classic avatar

[13:12] Shug Maitland (shug.maitland): yeah

[13:12] Bagheera: maybe the solution is to label new avatars for new users - recommended for advanced graphic cards - legacy for older systems - something like that

[13:12] Bagheera: so when a new person signs up, they know in advance if the avatar will be a challenge for their system?

[13:12] Mona Eberhardt: Ebbe, I had written about the camera offsets in SL: https://monaeberhardt.wordpress.com/tag/camera-offsets/ (I'm not the only one, by the way). Could you please consider this subject?

[13:13] Ebbe Linden: Yep, face is not doing anything with the new avatars...bummer...we're looking at that to see if we can get eyes and mouths cranking again...

[13:13] Nalates Urriah: That would make lots of people happy

[13:13] Shug Maitland (shug.maitland): good news, the face mods are probably the most important for individualizing your av

[13:13] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): I do feel the classic avatars would be less complicated for a new Resident

[13:14] Simon Linden: Mona ... fwiw we've been reviewing a lot of the feature requests and possible projects for SL this year. I'm not sure what will come out of it, but there are a lot of ideas

[13:14] Ebbe Linden: Mona, we consider it all but then there's priority....

[13:14] Shug Maitland (shug.maitland): and I should point out, one thing SL was way ahead of everyone else on in the beginning

[13:14] Bagheera: One thing that probably gets shunted to the back burner but would be really great would be to have better education on how the Library folder is set up, since most of the avatars are under Clothing

[13:14] Mona Eberhardt: Oh, I understand. You guys have numerous project on your hands, and personnel and time are finite. Thanks, though.

[13:14] Mona Eberhardt: projects*

[13:15] Shug Maitland (shug.maitland): *face customization

[13:15] Bagheera: smiles - just wish listing here :)

[13:15] Adamburp Adamczyk: Ebbe, we DO appreciate and understand that you havea lot of work to do, especiellay us "old timers"

[13:16] Ebbe Linden: I agree face is critical and having a stone face like my current avatar is not cool...a couple of steps forward and a step backwards...

[13:16] Shug Maitland (shug.maitland): like always, development is always that way

[13:17] Ebbe Linden: What's on the grill...I'm hungry!

[13:17] Bagheera: yes, actually, I am personally amazed delighted and reinspired to see first the office hour with Lindens and then Ebbe showing up :) makes me feel confident in LL :)

[13:17] Shug Maitland (shug.maitland): will get a lot of blog posts °?°

[13:17] Ebbe Linden: Thanks. Things are improving...

[13:17] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): Im going to get slapped if I bring up group chat lag problems arnt I? :D

[13:18] Bagheera: *slap*

[13:18] Shug Maitland (shug.maitland): ROFL

[13:18] Bagheera: lol

[13:18] Simon Linden: I'm going to get in line, Whirly :)

[13:18] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): Hahaha

[13:18] Simon Linden: Actually it's still on my list ... I have another bug related to experience tools to fix, and then I hope to get back to group chat

[13:18] Ebbe Linden: Chat lag...yes, on the list, Simone made progress but then had to deal with some other higher priority things, hope he, or someone, can get back to it soon...

[13:19] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): Awesome

[13:19] Shug Maitland (shug.maitland): is there even a long range technical possibility of a fix?

[13:19] Simon Linden: I learned a lot on the first pass and while it unfortunately didn't improve things, we got a lot more information on where the load is. Thus I have hopes the next round will be better

[13:19] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): Well, it didn't break it any worse either, so thats a plud :P

[13:20] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): *plus

[13:20] Shug Maitland (shug.maitland): "chat lag" and group chat access is extremely annoying, actually lag seems a bit better, getting access is worse for large groups

[13:20] Simon Linden: It's really the luck of your timing with group chat

[13:21] Ebbe Linden: russian chat roulette...

[13:21] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): Yeah. Some days it totally behaves pretty much and other days you just cannot get certain group chats open.

[13:21] Shug Maitland (shug.maitland): eg. Firestorm Support English

[13:21] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): Haha yes.

[13:22] Simon Linden: and activity in a few groups that you happen to share the server with end up affecting your experience. That's definitely not good

[13:24] Shug Maitland (shug.maitland): HA! inspect fixed your shirt, something to be learned there

[13:24] Simon Linden: That happens a lot ... it triggers an update from the server and you see it correctly

[13:24] Ebbe Linden: Any other questions before I run for some food?

[13:25] Lucia Nightfire: I think it was more the right clicking, heh

[13:25] Mona Eberhardt: Hmmmm... None that I can think of.

[13:25] Shug Maitland (shug.maitland): thanks for hanging around Ebbe

[13:25] Mona Eberhardt: Thanks for coming, Ebbe.

[13:25] Bagheera: thank you :)

[13:25] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): Ty for dropping in Ebbe

[13:25] Lucia Nightfire: I would ask about the bomb issues, but idt you haev the answers atm

[13:25] Nalates Urriah: Thanks Ebbe and Lindens

[13:25] Lucia Nightfire: idt anyone does

[13:25] Inara Pey: Enjoy your lunch!

[13:25] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): hehe he probably hasn't experienced a bomb yet

[13:26] Ebbe Linden: no bombs yet...

[13:26] Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you, Ebbe Linden.

[13:26] Lucia Nightfire: there are three different ones beign used atm sadly

[13:26] Ebbe Linden: Thank you all for helping us!

[13:27] Bagheera: :)

[13:27] Seewo (siwo): aaand back to SL11B ^^

[13:27] Simon Linden: Thanks everyone - see you next time

[13:27] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): Ty Simon

[13:27] Bagheera: thank you Simon

[13:27] Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you, Simon.

[13:27] Inara Pey: Thanks, Simon!

[13:27] Bagheera: bye :)

[13:27] Shug Maitland (shug.maitland): see you later everyone

[13:28] Ebbe Linden: Bye! Have a great one! See you soon.



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