Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2014.09.02

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List of Speakers

Darien Caldwell Hexapoda Inara Pey
Jenna Felton Kallista Destiny Lexbot Sinister
Lucia Nightfire Martinrj Fayray MB Robonaught
Mona Eberhardt Nalates Urriah Oz Linden
Rex Cronon Simon Linden Yuzuru Jewell


[12:01] Simon Linden: Hi everyone

[12:01] Jenna Felton: hi Simon

[12:02] Simon Linden: Let's see ...

[12:02] Simon Linden: the updates are pretty simple this week. The server code in the RC channels is going to be rolled to the main one tomorrow

[12:02] Jenna Felton: that looks like PHP, MB

[12:02] Simon Linden: We're a day later than usual because of the holiday in the USA

[12:03] Simon Linden: Thursday there will not be any RC update

[12:03] Simon Linden:

[12:03] Simon Linden: That has the details

[12:03] Rex Cronon: how can u guys let the "web stuff" die:(

[12:03] MB Robonaught: no it's page that is an .aspx the media fails to read all the source sent it

[12:04] Jenna Felton: i see

[12:04] MB Robonaught: php pages still read

[12:04] Simon Linden: That's it for my news ... so the floor is open for questions, issues and random topics

[12:04] Darien Caldwell: Rex, i am not aware of anything LL did that should be breaking HTTP based scripts.

[12:04] Rex Cronon: i use php. and my stuff doesn't work:(

[12:04] Darien Caldwell: i use HTTP in SL extensively, all seems a-ok

[12:05] MB Robonaught: the value is dropped from a .aspx page

[12:05] Inara Pey: So, the 17th - same time?

[12:05] Inara Pey: oops, wrong window

[12:05] MB Robonaught: also some prims fail to auto load

[12:06] Simon Linden: Rex ... can you send me an example of the text your php would give back to LSL? The full text, if you can

[12:06] Darien Caldwell: I had a scripting question for Kelly. is he available?

[12:07] MB Robonaught: would it be ok if I sent a sample as well, simon?

[12:07] Hexapoda: The new sunshine is a nightmare for me, if I turn around objects go away and when they load I get a bit of lag.

[12:07] Rex Cronon: it desn't send back anyting. this sends text to my server

[12:08] Simon Linden: No Darien, he's not

[12:09] Simon Linden: so do you know why it causes trouble for your server?

[12:10] Rex Cronon: i have no idea. i just got here. tried to turn it on and seems the server doesn't receive anything from here:(

[12:10] Darien Caldwell: sometimes individual sims can have issues.

[12:10] Lucia Nightfire: time to contact your host service, heh

[12:10] Darien Caldwell: but usually your script should receive an error code back

[12:11] Rex Cronon: i can contact my server using a web browser

[12:11] MB Robonaught: mine is a failure clientside which would be media

[12:11] Darien Caldwell: yeah MB, that's a whole other kettle of fish

[12:11] Darien Caldwell: if you're doing something client side, that's going to be changing soon anyway

[12:11] Seewo (siwo): many main channel sims act pretty bad after last week maintenance

[12:12] Darien Caldwell: LL's working on replacing Webkit with CEF

[12:12] getWebFile: Hello, Avatar!

[12:12] MB Robonaught: but I have intermittent sending issues as well where the media doesn't update the url when sent a query

[12:13] getWebFile: Touched.

[12:13] Simon Linden: are the failures 100%, all the time, or intermittent?

[12:13] MB Robonaught: read failures are 100%

[12:13] Rex Cronon: nothing goes through:(

[12:13] CmdrCupcake's ear: Seewo lightly pets CmdrCupcake behind their ear.

[12:14] Simon Linden: Rex - have you tried on the main channel servers too?

[12:14] MB Robonaught: mine it fails to read the "value" in the code....including the words value=

[12:15] Rex Cronon: this is not main channel?

[12:15] Seewo (siwo): it is

[12:16] getWebFile: Touched.

[12:17] getWebFile: Touched.

[12:17] Simon Linden: ok ... I would have gotten nervous if this didn't reproduce on the main channel

[12:18] getWebFile: Touched.

[12:18] Darien Caldwell: i'd probably guess it's a problem between here and your server

[12:18] Lucia Nightfire: we're on mc atm, heh

[12:18] Darien Caldwell: not with SL itself

[12:18] Darien Caldwell: could be broken internet, or your service provider has blocked LL

[12:18] Darien Caldwell: it happens

[12:19] Rex Cronon: dariend. do u have scripts inside sl contact an outside server?

[12:19] Darien Caldwell: yep

[12:19] Rex Cronon: darien*

[12:19] Darien Caldwell: in every product I sell ol

[12:19] Darien Caldwell: if it wasnt' working, i'd have a ton of errors hitting my email right now

[12:19] Rex Cronon: maybe that is not working too;)

[12:20] Darien Caldwell: as it is, I get maybe on error a week

[12:20] MB Robonaught: if that is true darian why am I getting client side error messages?

[12:20] getWebFile: Touched.

[12:20] Darien Caldwell: well MB, I don't know what your specific application is

[12:20] MB Robonaught: http_response

[12:20] Darien Caldwell: if you're loading a custom AJAX framework into the Viewer's Browser, there's a lot that can go wrong with that

[12:21] MB Robonaught: nothing fancy and the error says it can't find it

[12:21] Darien Caldwell: i do the same, and i find it varies machine to machine

[12:21] MB Robonaught: and it worked great for several months until the hardware upgrades

[12:21] Simon Linden: is that a DNS site-not-found or 404 page not found?

[12:21] Darien Caldwell: majority of people it works fine. but for some it fails and even after having them check their firewalls, etc, can find no solution

[12:21] MB Robonaught: if (typeof(Sys) === 'undefined') throw new Error('ASP.NET Ajax client-side framework failed to load.');

[12:22] Darien Caldwell: yeah that error means little without context

[12:22] Darien Caldwell: where is that in your code?

[12:22] Darien Caldwell: is it on the server side, or the client side?

[12:22] MB Robonaught: it is in the returned source

[12:22] MB Robonaught: that is read by media

[12:22] MB Robonaught: and only shows on media and not a browser

[12:23] Darien Caldwell: what you receive from the server?

[12:23] MB Robonaught: I get everything but the value

[12:23] Darien Caldwell: how are you setting this "Sys" value?

[12:23] Darien Caldwell: url variable, or header variable

[12:24] MB Robonaught: the media sent it back to my page

[12:24] MB Robonaught: the output line should read <input name="txtOfficials" type="text" value="MB Robonaught-Vladi Hazelnut-Lotus Setzer-Gaberiel Foulsbane-Sorcie naxos-jeanettedjennet Resident-Killian Sandalwood" id="txtOfficials" /><br />

[12:24] MB Robonaught: the media reads the same line as <input name="txtOfficials" type="text" id="txtOfficials" /><br />

[12:25] MB Robonaught: drops the value right out of it

[12:25] Jenna Felton: you can probably compare the ISP you are both using or who is offering the server, probably there is really a blocking that hits Rex and MB and not Darien, when at the client side all is ok

[12:25] Darien Caldwell: i'd have to look at your code to figure it out. But at any rate, that would be a viewer issue.

[12:25] Darien Caldwell: clientside

[12:26] Darien Caldwell: what Rex is experiencing would seem to be server side, so completely different

[12:26] MB Robonaught: trust me it's not being blocked :p

[12:26] Darien Caldwell: no it's not being blocked

[12:26] Jenna Felton: ok

[12:26] Darien Caldwell: your Javascript is failing

[12:26] Jenna Felton: was just an idea

[12:26] Simon Linden: so this seems to be totally between your servers and the SL client, right?

[12:26] Rex Cronon: i can contact my server using a web browser without problem

[12:26] Rex Cronon: and it seems i can contact it from here also

[12:26] MB Robonaught: who is that question directed at simon?

[12:26] Darien Caldwell: there should be no difference between the media browser and the regular SL web browser

[12:27] Darien Caldwell: so not sure why it would work in one and not the other. But maybe Oz knows of some specific difference

[12:27] Rex Cronon: did any of the llxor functions change?

[12:27] Simon Linden: anyone that can answer ... I understand some things are not working right. I'm just trying to rule out the SL servers

[12:28] Darien Caldwell: Rex's issue sounds like a failure between LL's server and his server

[12:28] Lucia Nightfire: heh, llXor wereallymeanitthistime() should have been fixed a while back

[12:28] MB Robonaught: Simon it acts just like the service was turned off for certain functions

[12:28] Darien Caldwell: MB's issue is a failure between her client browser and her server

[12:28] Darien Caldwell: LL's server isn't touched in that instance

[12:28] MB Robonaught: mine it is only on the media and not any form of browser outside SL

[12:28] Simon Linden: ok, got it

[12:29] Rex Cronon: last week worked fine. from both main and beta grid. but something changed somewhere

[12:29] MB Robonaught: the client is kicking back an error to my page

[12:30] Simon Linden: ok ... well, that kind of change over the two grids as well as all server channels means whatever it is, it wasn't one of the usual server updates

[12:31] Lexbot Sinister: Bottleneck somewhere?

[12:31] getWebFile: Touched.

[12:31] MB Robonaught: can the services for be checked?

[12:31] Lexbot Sinister: i've had crazy issues with avatar being ghosted half the time this weekend. Something between europe and US internets hasn't been right.

[12:32] Simon Linden: possibly, Lex, but I haven't heard of any changes to our network structure

[12:32] Lexbot Sinister: I spend half a day trying to pinpoint the issue, and conclusion was it wasn't at your end, nor mine.

[12:33] Hexapoda: Things derez fast for me and when you run around a sim and object rez again it is often something fail to load

[12:33] Darien Caldwell: i just checked one of my servers:

[12:33] Darien Caldwell: as you can see, hundreds of requests in the last 24 hours, no failures

[12:34] Lucia Nightfire: How far down the priority pole is MAINT-3889? heh

[12:34] Darien Caldwell: those for the DNS are all directly from within SL

[12:34] CmdrCupcake ( What's MAINT-3889

[12:34] Rex Cronon: about 6 hours ago i checked this at rausch and it it doesn't:(

[12:34] Darien Caldwell: the js/css is media based

[12:34] Rex Cronon: maybe is just this sim?

[12:35] Lucia Nightfire: MAINT-3889 is a function to return the byte count of a string

[12:35] Simon Linden: It's moderately deep, Lucy ... that's one that seems pretty straigth forward and shouldn't be difficult or risky

[12:35] rcdsQueChatLog: State changed.{click me to get the url}

[12:35] Darien Caldwell: can't you just use llGetStrLength()

[12:36] Lucia Nightfire: all string function input and return is byte capped. It would be great to have a means the server already uses to get said byte count.

[12:36] Darien Caldwell: or whatever ll names it

[12:36] Darien Caldwell: llStringLength

[12:36] Martinrj Fayray: that one counts characters, not bytes, Darien

[12:37] Darien Caldwell: same thing?

[12:37] Lucia Nightfire: you have to use a UDF to count bytes of chars that can be 1 - 4 bytes

[12:37] Martinrj Fayray: sadly no

[12:37] Simon Linden: no, not with non-roman text

[12:37] Darien Caldwell: ah, I see

[12:37] Jenna Felton: for special charracters it is not the same :)

[12:37] Lucia Nightfire: non-ANSI chars can have 1 - 4 bytes

[12:37] Darien Caldwell: i stay away from UTF in my scripts

[12:37] Lucia Nightfire: all function input and output are byte limtied, not char

[12:37] Simon Linden: our text functions support utf-8 for international text, so it's 1-4 bytes as Lucy just said

[12:38] Darien Caldwell: Legacy names FTW ;p

[12:38] Lucia Nightfire: we're at a usage level today where it isn't unommon for multilanguage chars to be inputted and outted, having that function seems long overdue

[12:38] Darien Caldwell: yeah i can see there's a need for that

[12:39] Martinrj Fayray: there's always some user-input which can make scripts crash, e.g. if you output the user-input in a dialog in some way

[12:39] Darien Caldwell: now that you outline it

[12:39] Lucia Nightfire: the server already does it for all comm, it shouldn't be hard to tie a function into that

[12:40] Darien Caldwell: that's at least one advantage (of a few) for using LSO

[12:40] Martinrj Fayray: "shouldn't be hard" is the one phrase that devs love to hear most, from their customers

[12:40] Rex Cronon: sadlly right now my rl has a "little" chaos so i can't spend time debuging this:(

[12:40] Martinrj Fayray: should not be hard!

[12:40] Darien Caldwell: strings use less space

[12:40] Darien Caldwell: since UTF-8 isn't supported

[12:41] Darien Caldwell: or is it UTF-16

[12:41] Darien Caldwell: i never get that straight

[12:41] Simon Linden: This one is genuinely simple ... our own code has to handle the differences between considering character position and bytes. It really is a matter of resources and setting priorities. This will be nice to have, but would it go in front of a crash fix? That's the kind of choice we have to make

[12:41] Darien Caldwell: it's UTF-16. that's what Mono uses

[12:42] Darien Caldwell: so LSO is UTF-8

[12:42] Darien Caldwell: i'll remember that one day hehe

[12:42] Lucia Nightfire: Just hoping on some nice shineys before SL2, lol

[12:42] Darien Caldwell: i'd think all the crashes should be ironed out by now. SL has never been more stable

[12:43] Oz Linden: we've got plenty of shinys in the pipeline

[12:43] Lucia Nightfire: if LL monitored WT for crash modes, they'd have all the fixes released already, lol

[12:43] Lucia Nightfire: still waiting on sim bombing to be fixed

[12:43] Darien Caldwell: hehe

[12:44] Rex Cronon: and rausch:)

[12:44] Lucia Nightfire: I mean, the sever shouldn't even allow 10000 nc's or textures per prim let alone a user,....

[12:44] Lucia Nightfire: scripts were capped, but nothing else afaik

[12:44] Darien Caldwell: i remember when i ran an RP area, and we lived with a crash every hour

[12:44] Darien Caldwell: that was how SL used to be lol

[12:44] Darien Caldwell: you just expected it

[12:44] Simon Linden: ah, those were the days ;)

[12:44] Darien Caldwell: now if I see a crash in 6 months, I'm genuinely surprised

[12:45] Rex Cronon: u crashed an rp sim? how come? isn't rp mostly talking?

[12:45] Darien Caldwell: well, was before Havok 4. just sitting down on a prim could crash a sim lol

[12:45] Martinrj Fayray: Simon is there any chance that llSetTorque will ever work on avatars?

[12:45] Lucia Nightfire: rp can also mean *CS usage

[12:45] Darien Caldwell: Havok 4 brought a lot of stability

[12:45] Martinrj Fayray: it's 2014 and there is still no way to make an avatar face a specific direction with LSL

[12:45] Darien Caldwell: was happy to help Sidewinder iron that baby out

[12:46] Lucia Nightfire: you can use tp functions to turn yourself

[12:46] Lucia Nightfire: which is lame, yes

[12:46] Darien Caldwell: now that's a workaround ;)

[12:46] Martinrj Fayray: won't work for a hug-attachment (MartinRJ is asking for permission to teleport you to location???)

[12:46] Simon Linden: Martin - I doubt we would change llSetTorque's behavior, since that would probably break other things

[12:47] Rex Cronon: if u have your ave sit u can have it face any direction:)

[12:47] Lucia Nightfire: new function time - SetAvatarRotation()

[12:47] Darien Caldwell: RLV has a way to turn an avatar lol

[12:47] Simon Linden: but the ability to set an AV's direction makes sense, if we could work out the possible abuse and all that

[12:47] Darien Caldwell: client side but works

[12:47] Darien Caldwell: i guess it taps into the movement system

[12:48] Lucia Nightfire: probably the autopilot sys

[12:48] Darien Caldwell: yeah

[12:48] Martinrj Fayray: well you could use llsettorque the way llsetforce works for attachments

[12:48] Martinrj Fayray: since llsettorque right now does nothing on attached objects

[12:49] Jenna Felton: probably needs than a new runtime permission SPIN_AGENT or so

[12:49] Simon Linden: right, I'm just wondering how many attachments and huds out there now are calling llSetTorque() and if behavior changed, you start spinning around

[12:49] Jenna Felton: than the abuse should be low

[12:49] Martinrj Fayray: hrm

[12:50] Darien Caldwell: i don't know why they would if it does nothing currently

[12:50] Martinrj Fayray: llSetTorque_thistimewemeanit?

[12:50] Lucia Nightfire: there are soem move locks that use it

[12:50] Darien Caldwell: so it must do something

[12:50] Rex Cronon: u know. if put an ave between two planks of wood and move them in opposite directions then the ave should rotate:)

[12:50] Lucia Nightfire: may need a standalone feature after all, heh

[12:51] Rex Cronon: u make a burrito:)

[12:51] Darien Caldwell: i've never understood why avatars weren't treated like prims to begin with

[12:51] Darien Caldwell: linking an attachment should make the avatar the root

[12:51] Darien Caldwell: and you should be able to put scripts in your root-body

[12:52] Darien Caldwell: and send link messages through the linkset

[12:52] Lucia Nightfire: idk why we don't have sit on attachment permissions

[12:52] Simon Linden: Please don't do that to AVs, Rex :P

[12:52] Lucia Nightfire: even the Simms has it

[12:52] Darien Caldwell: imagine if you could network attachments through your body linkset

[12:52] Darien Caldwell: that would be far surperior than chat based systems

[12:52] Rex Cronon: imagine putting a resize script inside the eyes of an ave:)

[12:52] MB Robonaught: LOL

[12:52] Simon Linden: yeah Darien - I would love to fiddle with the scripting model. I wish SL had land-based scripts, so you might get events when AVs enter or leave

[12:53] MB Robonaught: @@

[12:53] Darien Caldwell: that's another cool idea

[12:54] Rex Cronon: i think we already have that simon. u use a megaprim(256x256x4094)

[12:54] Darien Caldwell: lol

[12:54] Seewo (siwo): I would love attachments acting like a linkset.... and therefore ability to use one script to control all worn attachments :)

[12:54] Simon Linden: haha ... and then you drive the physics engine crazy :P

[12:54] Jenna Felton: i also needed once an ability to detect parcel change

[12:54] Jenna Felton: not just region change

[12:55] Rex Cronon: wouldn't be also cool if u could add scripts to your clothes? now more 1001 items of each color for sell on the mp:)

[12:55] Lucia Nightfire: Rex, the VD megaprim thing is outdate at teh advent of llGetAgentList()

[12:55] Rex Cronon: no more*

[12:55] Seewo (siwo): don't forget there are also those griefy mega prims ~ 65000x65000x65000 :)

[12:56] Jenna Felton: wow

[12:56] Mona Eberhardt: Rex, texture layer-based clothes are so 2006.

[12:56] Rex Cronon: right lucy. i am using that in some of my scripts:)

[12:56] Darien Caldwell: yeah i've seen those get rezzed on the mainland lol

[12:56] MB Robonaught: forgive for asking....will the web issue be looked into?

[12:56] Lucia Nightfire: hopefully SL2 will give land owners some resource control

[12:56] Darien Caldwell: you can't see it but everything acts strange

[12:56] Darien Caldwell: because you're inside it

[12:57] Mona Eberhardt: Nowadays, there are rigged mesh clothes whose colours and materials are controlled by HUD, and there are also appliers for rigged mesh avatar bodies.

[12:57] Rex Cronon: mona. if u add scripts to them that would make them so 2014;)

[12:57] Mona Eberhardt: Add scripts to what, Rex? Textures?

[12:57] Mona Eberhardt: Textures are .tga files.

[12:57] Rex Cronon: clothes

[12:58] Darien Caldwell: you can put scripts in some clothes

[12:58] Darien Caldwell: like that shirt ;p

[12:58] Rex Cronon: mesh ones darien?

[12:58] Darien Caldwell: yep

[12:58] Kallista Destiny: Not in system layer clothing.

[12:59] Darien Caldwell: not sure why you'd want to put a script in a system layer

[12:59] Darien Caldwell: what would be the purpose?

[12:59] Mona Eberhardt: To change its colour, Darien. But how can you put a script in a .tga or a .jpg file?

[12:59] Darien Caldwell: you can't

[12:59] Mona Eberhardt: That's what I'm saying...

[12:59] Kallista Destiny: For the same reason you put script in anything. To manipulate it

[13:00] Nalates Urriah: Gotta go. Bye all.

[13:00] Rex Cronon: u associate a scrip to each layer?

[13:00] Darien Caldwell: yeah just from what i've seen, most system clothes dont' work from coloring ayway

[13:00] Darien Caldwell: anyway

[13:00] Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you, Oz.

[13:00] Darien Caldwell: they are a texture and not tintable

[13:00] Rex Cronon: tc nal

[13:00] Darien Caldwell: i think out of all my 50,000 items I have one tintable piece of system clothing lol

[13:00] Darien Caldwell: it was a real novelty

[13:01] Simon Linden: I also need to go -- thanks everyone for coming today

[13:01] Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you, Simon.

[13:01] Rex Cronon: tc simon

[13:01] Darien Caldwell: thanks :)

[13:01] Mona Eberhardt: Thanks, Simon.


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