Difference between revisions of "Talk:Chatbot"

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(suggest next Windows experiment is blog the sourcelines here and try deleting the else)
m (→‎News: - LSL_Protocol/ListMessage has code now - likely the seed of what will replace the first draft of the Chatbot)
 
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== Call for Volunteers ==
You can help by adding bugs, fixing bugs, and adding comments here to tell us why and how you are or are not working with your own Chatbot.
You can help by running the Chatbot in Linux, even if you have been running only Mac OS X or Windows on your computer.
See: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LSL_Write_Once_Debug_Everywhere#Running_Linux
== News ==
The [[LSL_Protocol/ListMessage]] article now has a little code in an example - likely the seed of what will replace the first draft of the Chatbot.
== Wishes ==
== Wishes ==


We could/ should soon add ...
We could/ should soon add ...


* llGetFreeMemory in the demo
* rewrite to use the [[LSL_Protocol/ListMessage]] to divide the work of interpreting LSL among indefinitely many scripts via [[llMessageLinked]] and [[link_message]]
 
We could/ should soon add ...
 
* say if [[llGetSunDirection]] changes or not when World > Force Sun > Region Default shows sunrise, noon, sunset, midnight, or what -- likely it doesn't, the object doesn't know what its owning or creating avatar sees


* discover the time of day -- say if World > Force Sun > Region Default would show sunrise, noon, sunset, midnight, or what
We could/ should soon add ...


* move to owner and stop moving
* move to owner and stop moving.


* parsing of prefix monadic + - arithmetic operators, for scalar and vectors and rotations
* parsing of prefix monadic + - arithmetic operators, for scalar and vectors and rotations
Line 13: Line 29:
* parsing of infix dyadic + - * / % arithmetic operators with precedence, on pairs of values of the same type, on vector/ rotation pairs, on rotation/ vector pairs
* parsing of infix dyadic + - * / % arithmetic operators with precedence, on pairs of values of the same type, on vector/ rotation pairs, on rotation/ vector pairs


Also the [[Chatbot]] and [[Hello Avatar]] examples should learn from each other, e.g.:
* forever periodically resynch or somehow merge the [[Chatbot]] and [[Hello Avatar]] examples
 
<pre>
llSetStatus(STATUS_PHYSICS, FALSE); llSleep(0.1);
llSetLocalRot(llRotBetween(<1, 0, 0>, llGetSunDirection())); // turn the East face to the Sun
</pre>


== Bugs ==
== Bugs ==
Line 49: Line 60:


-- [[User:Ppaatt Lynagh|Ppaatt Lynagh]] 07:42, 14 September 2007 (PDT)
-- [[User:Ppaatt Lynagh|Ppaatt Lynagh]] 07:42, 14 September 2007 (PDT)
== Bugs That May Have Been Fixed ==


=== Bug: (316, 48) : ERROR Syntax Error ===
=== Bug: (316, 48) : ERROR Syntax Error ===


<pre>(316, 48) : ERROR Syntax Error
The thousand lines of Chatbot script is script enough to confuse some compilers.
Second Life 1.18.2 (0) Aug 10 2007 09:34:24 (Second Life Release)</pre>
 
-- kindly reported by e-mail
 
I suspect we're facing some difficulty in perfecting the accuracy of the copy/ paste of a thousand lines of script.
 
The Second Life client app that works for me says it was released to me just ~3 minutes later:
Help > About Second Life is "Second Life 1.18.2 (0) Aug 10 2007 09:37:04 (Second Life Release)"
 
Here I see:
 
<pre>Compile successful, saving...
Save complete.</pre>
 
...
 
"Line 316, Column 0" in world is:
<pre>return [llRequestAgentData(llList2Key(ps, 0), llList2Integer(ps, 1))];</pre>
 
Hard to understand how that syntax can be wrong while the previous syntax is correct.
 
...
 
I've stored a copy of this script as Chatbot-lsl-20070913.txt at
http://members.aol.com/ppaatt/indexed/secondlife/
 
My integrity checks on the script here are:
 
<pre>$ ls -l Chatbot-lsl.txt
-rw-r--r--@ 1 pat  staff  22876 13 Sep 20:02 Chatbot-lsl.txt
$ openssl md5 Chatbot-lsl.txt
MD5(Chatbot-lsl.txt)= 9373258278a20329c7ba39353454059c
$ </pre>
 
Does that copy work for you?
 
-- [[User:Ppaatt Lynagh|Ppaatt Lynagh]] 20:12, 13 September 2007 (PDT)
 
A: Sorry, Ppaatt, no. I get
 
<code>(316, 48) : ERROR Syntax Error </code>
 
even when using the source @ aol.com. But as I don't use Linux, I couldn't check integrety.
 
--[[User:Huney Jewell|Huney Jewell]] 21:32, 13 September 2007 (PDT)
 
_____________________________________________________________________________________
 
Ppaatt, thanks for the response
 
Your volunteer status is noted and appeciated.
 
I tried commenting out blocks of code before/after but still got the same error.
 
I then tried breaking that huge if..else..else into three if statements. That compiled, so the issue is the number of else's in an if statement.
 
Regards
 
TimZim Teatime
 
_____________________________________________________________________________________
 
Ah fun.
 
1.
 
Me, I'm using Mac OS X. Yes please let's chase this theory that the results vary by client platform: Apple Mac OS X, Linux, Windows, whatever.
 
I'll return here with a short example that contains nothing but the resultOf routine called by default.state_entry. Then someone for whom http://members.aol.com/ppaatt/indexed/secondlife/Chatbot-lsl-20070913.txt fails can try that example, and prove that such a short example still fails.
 
I'll also provide an almost identical short example that differs only by breaking the huge if..else..else into three if statements. Then someone can prove that some platforms fail the huge if..else..else and accept the broken if..else..else.
 
Once we have a simple good/bad test case, then we can run down what the limit is exactly, in terms of a count of else if branches allowed. Then we can write a wiki article here to announce to the world this limit that we must live by.
 
Or ... we can volunteer you to do that work of defining this experiment in detail for us, as well as the work of conducting the experiment. :-)
 
2.
 
I'll work on getting Linux or Windows to boot here. Are any of you who see failure already using Linux by chance? That would be easiest, e.g., kernel.org Knoppix Linux I can boot from DVD-R or CD-R.
 
Getting Windows going will be harder, but eventually possible, I think. I can borrow a license from work and deploy Windows somewhere.
 
3.
 
llGetFreeMemory might be relevant in world.
 
I'll return here with a quote of what my llGetFreeMemory is.
 
4.
 
Thanks again and again in advance,
 
-- [[User:Ppaatt Lynagh|Ppaatt Lynagh]] 03:49, 14 September 2007 (PDT)
 
Ok. First next step:


http://members.aol.com/ppaatt/indexed/secondlife/if-else-if-lsl-20070914a.txt
The [[LSL Write Once Debug Everywhere]] article explains how you can develop LSL scripts that run well and compile without error in many places.
has just 226 source lines in it, rather than 907 of the 13 Sep Chatbot.


Those 226 source lines contain exactly the same 40 "else if" source lines as the 9/13 Chatbot.
The [[LSL Errors]] article explains the astonishing 2007-08 Windows compiler limit of about a dozen cascaded else-if's (astonishing when contrasted to the Mac limit of about five hundred).


By the TimZim theory of an if-else-if depth limit in Second Life for Windows ... that script should fail to compile, with a syntax error.
The talk archive at http://wiki.secondlife.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Chatbot&oldid=32867#Bug:_.28316.2C_48.29_:_ERROR_Syntax_Error
tells the story of how Col, Huney, Ppaatt and Tim reverse-engineered, documented, and worked around the limits on cascading else-if's.  


Does that compile fail? Here in Mac OS X, that compile succeeds, no worries.
-- [[User:Ppaatt Lynagh|Ppaatt Lynagh]] 06:14, 26 September 2007 (PDT)


P.S. 11993 bytes is my llGetFreeMemory result, as printed in Mac OS X by that if-else-if-lsl-20070914a.txt script.
== Rethink ==


-- [[User:Ppaatt Lynagh|Ppaatt Lynagh]] 08:34, 14 September 2007 (PDT)
I have by now thought thru a new design for ducking our ill-defined not-quite-cross-platform-reproducible script resource limits by dividing the work out via llMessageLinked.
----
A: Ppaatt, I get:


<code>(149, 39) : ERROR Syntax Error </code>
Sorry as yet I'm thinking in the deeply geeky slang of compiler folk. Out in that world, my thinking runs as follows.
<br/>
Greetz --[[User:Huney Jewell|Huney Jewell]] 21:43, 14 September 2007 (PDT)


----
http://members.aol.com/ppaatt/#%5B%5BReverse%20Polish%20LSL%5D%5D is my definition of Reverse Polish LSL. I figure we want to chat ordinary LSL onto a channel, then see (forward) Polish chatted on a channel. In translating from ordinary LSL, we'd chat the depth-first Polish first, i.e., the leftmost ( ... ) found, with just values as parameters. We'd then see the result chatted on a channel, which will let us form the next expression out.
Huney,


Thank you!
I plan to head that way here as soon as I get some more time slices free to work this. That way will let us divide the else-if's arbitrarily into indefinitely many functions.


The TimZim theory lives: we still now can believe that 40 else-if's are too many for the Windows SecondLife client.
I figure we can define monadic == to mean evaluate a name.


Next I will look to see if it is the same sourceline involved in both failures so far.
I figure we can use simply-quoted URL-encoding to pass strings around.


If yes, then I will delete just the else there, and ask you Windows folk to report if that minimal change defeats the error.
I figure we want to distinguish no result, void result, non-list non-void result, possibly-empty list result. I figure we count the "no results" til we have enough, to know when no one listening can make sense of the Polish LSL that was chatted.


-- [[User:Ppaatt Lynagh|Ppaatt Lynagh]] 10:39, 15 September 2007 (PDT)
-- [[User:Ppaatt Lynagh|Ppaatt Lynagh]]

Latest revision as of 21:13, 14 October 2007

Call for Volunteers

You can help by adding bugs, fixing bugs, and adding comments here to tell us why and how you are or are not working with your own Chatbot.

You can help by running the Chatbot in Linux, even if you have been running only Mac OS X or Windows on your computer.

See: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LSL_Write_Once_Debug_Everywhere#Running_Linux

News

The LSL_Protocol/ListMessage article now has a little code in an example - likely the seed of what will replace the first draft of the Chatbot.

Wishes

We could/ should soon add ...

We could/ should soon add ...

  • say if llGetSunDirection changes or not when World > Force Sun > Region Default shows sunrise, noon, sunset, midnight, or what -- likely it doesn't, the object doesn't know what its owning or creating avatar sees

We could/ should soon add ...

  • move to owner and stop moving.
  • parsing of prefix monadic + - arithmetic operators, for scalar and vectors and rotations
  • parsing of infix dyadic + - * / % arithmetic operators with precedence, on pairs of values of the same type, on vector/ rotation pairs, on rotation/ vector pairs

Bugs

This Chatbot script works reasonably well for some of us ... how about you? If not, why not?

Bug: Channel number omitted, comma included, in echo of list value

STEPS TO REPRODUCE: 

/7 [a, b, c] // a list value

EXPECTED RESULTS: 

/7 [a, b, c] // a list value
[a, b, c]

ACTUAL RESULTS: 

// [a, b, c] // a list value
, [a, b, c]

See? The channel number 7 is missing from the echo, broken by design.

See? A spurious string ", " of comma and blank appears before the expected result, who knows why.

Another example that produces the spurious ", " is: 

/7 [llGetFreeMemory(), llGetFreeMemory(), llGetFreeMemory()]

Thus likely this bug is with output of type list, not with input of type list.

-- Ppaatt Lynagh 07:42, 14 September 2007 (PDT)

Bugs That May Have Been Fixed

Bug: (316, 48) : ERROR Syntax Error

The thousand lines of Chatbot script is script enough to confuse some compilers.

The LSL Write Once Debug Everywhere article explains how you can develop LSL scripts that run well and compile without error in many places.

The LSL Errors article explains the astonishing 2007-08 Windows compiler limit of about a dozen cascaded else-if's (astonishing when contrasted to the Mac limit of about five hundred).

The talk archive at http://wiki.secondlife.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Chatbot&oldid=32867#Bug:_.28316.2C_48.29_:_ERROR_Syntax_Error tells the story of how Col, Huney, Ppaatt and Tim reverse-engineered, documented, and worked around the limits on cascading else-if's.

-- Ppaatt Lynagh 06:14, 26 September 2007 (PDT)

Rethink

I have by now thought thru a new design for ducking our ill-defined not-quite-cross-platform-reproducible script resource limits by dividing the work out via llMessageLinked.

Sorry as yet I'm thinking in the deeply geeky slang of compiler folk. Out in that world, my thinking runs as follows.

http://members.aol.com/ppaatt/#%5B%5BReverse%20Polish%20LSL%5D%5D is my definition of Reverse Polish LSL. I figure we want to chat ordinary LSL onto a channel, then see (forward) Polish chatted on a channel. In translating from ordinary LSL, we'd chat the depth-first Polish first, i.e., the leftmost ( ... ) found, with just values as parameters. We'd then see the result chatted on a channel, which will let us form the next expression out.

I plan to head that way here as soon as I get some more time slices free to work this. That way will let us divide the else-if's arbitrarily into indefinitely many functions.

I figure we can define monadic == to mean evaluate a name.

I figure we can use simply-quoted URL-encoding to pass strings around.

I figure we want to distinguish no result, void result, non-list non-void result, possibly-empty list result. I figure we count the "no results" til we have enough, to know when no one listening can make sense of the Polish LSL that was chatted.

-- Ppaatt Lynagh

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