User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2009 12 17

Transcript

[16:57]	Johan Laurasia:	Yo Simon
[16:57]	Johan Laurasia:	you're not
[16:58]	Ardy Lay:	Hi Simon
[16:58]	Fury Rosewood:	hi simon
[16:58]	xstorm Radek:	hi Simon :-)
[16:58]	Simon Linden:	hello .... really slow to rez today
[16:58]	Simon Linden:	Ah, there's most of it
[16:58]	xstorm Radek:	LL did great on them free land and homes :-)
[16:58]	xstorm Radek:	i was reading it
[16:58]	Johan Laurasia:	looks a bit like jamie from mythbusters...lol
[16:58]	xstorm Radek:	its not at all like it was when we had firstland
[17:00]	Simon Linden:	yeah, hopefully it will get people onto land but then they'll move up
[17:00]	xstorm Radek:	i hope so
[17:00]	Welcome to	Linden office hours
[17:00]	Johan Laurasia:	I was one of the last 'first land' owners
[17:00]	Morgaine Dinova:	Hi Simon :-) Hi all
[17:01]	Simon Linden:	Hello
[17:01]	Morgaine Dinova:	Thanks xstorm --- gotta get into the spirit of Xmas :-)
[17:01]	Simon Linden:	I think Andrew is on the way
[17:02]	xstorm Radek:	when i got out of olive from the LL sandbox i got first land till i had to be in the hospital every day for treatment
[17:02]	Johan Laurasia:	I went and checked out some of the new continent sims/linden homes
[17:02]	xstorm Radek:	that was 2003
[17:02]	Morgaine Dinova:	OMG xstorm, your hat. That's a competition winner :-))
[17:02]	xstorm Radek:	lol
[17:02]	xstorm Radek:	a friend made it for me
[17:03]	Morgaine Dinova:	In addition to Alice, you could pin your Xmas cards there :-)
[17:03]	Simon Linden:	So lets see ... only annoucement I have is the Linden Homes beta opening up yesterday
[17:03]	xstorm Radek:	olive was my first time i ever rez a prim that scared the hell out of me
[17:04]	Morgaine Dinova:	Hi Andrew!
[17:04]	Ardy Lay:	Hi Andrew
[17:04]	xstorm Radek:	and had a linden tell me never rez that prim again
[17:04]	Andrew Linden:	Hello
[17:04]	Simon Linden:	The grid was updated to 1.34.1 on Tuesday, I think it finished up by the end of the day
[17:04]	xstorm Radek:	hi Andrew :-)
[17:05]	Morgaine Dinova:	Did a slurl to the new land get blogged?
[17:05]	xstorm Radek:	Andrew the free land and homes are great way better then the firstland system ever was
[17:05]	Johan Laurasia:	I had to search some region names to get there
[17:05]	Simon Linden:	There was a blog post or two ... not sure if they had a direct link
[17:05]	Johan Laurasia:	they didnt
[17:06]	xstorm Radek:	i must thank LL for not putting firstland back in place
[17:06]	Ardy Lay:	Was easy enought to find on the map.
[17:06]	Johan Laurasia:	they list a handful of regions you can search then tp to
[17:06]	Morgaine Dinova:	Is there an Infohub on that continent?
[17:06]	s greeter	says: Hello Kaluura, xstorm, Johan, LSL, Becky, Simon, Morgaine, Bronson, Fury, and Ardy.
[17:06]	Andrew Linden:	That's good to hear xstorm. Much more work went into the new version.
[17:06]	Kaluura Boa:	Hello, Greeter...
[17:06]	Morgaine Dinova:	Hi Rex's greeter. How is your master doing today?
[17:06]	Simon Linden:	Elderglen is the best region to check out ... has a few activities there. From that map you can find all the others
[17:06]	Morgaine Dinova	pokes Rex too
[17:07]	Morgaine Dinova:	Thanks SImon
[17:07]	Rex Cronon:	lol morgaine. its master doig ok:
[17:07]	Rex Cronon:	doing*
[17:08]	Arawn Spitteler	casually mentions SVC-22 and SVC-93, along with SVC-2931, in passing: Does anyone know an appropriate office hour for http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-1406 'cause Jack didn't seem interested
[17:08]	Panic Check	- Tier Drops need warnings, and invitations to clarify.
[17:08]	Rex Cronon:	btw. poke re useless. i wear armr:)
[17:08]	llSetLinkPrimitiveParams content	breakage, only moves agents 54 meters now
[17:08]	ROTATION and	llSetRot incorrectly implemented for child prims
[17:08]	Vehicles crossing	region borders aren't always treated as vehicles and can get incorrectly returned if the destination parcel is no-entry or parcel-full
[17:08]	Simon Linden:	#$@#$ map double click :)
[17:08]	Morgaine Dinova:	Simon got kicked by the sim, because he exceed the sim's moustache resource limit.
[17:09]	Johan Laurasia:	yeah, those mustache limits kicked in
[17:09]	Simon Linden:	We had a meeting where these got passed out, everyone was wearing them for some reason
[17:09]	Morgaine Dinova:	Hehe
[17:09]	Ardy Lay:	Hiding from the angry mob maybe.
[17:09]	Rex Cronon:	was it a secret society:)
[17:10]	Ardy Lay:	But, I see no angry mob here.
[17:10]	Andrew Linden:	Arawn, I'm not sure what office hour is best for WEB-1406.
[17:10]	Johan Laurasia:	well, kittie still has the blues...lol
[17:11]	Arawn Spitteler:	If we look at Finance as a system, it's a QA issue, but Finance isn't a computer system, and requires a more classic handling
[17:11]	Ardy Lay:	When I sold my land I was able to tier down without any difficulties.
[17:11]	Arawn Spitteler:	That's if you think to tier down
[17:11]	Arawn Spitteler:	She hadn't thought to change to basic, and so couldn't
[17:11]	Morgaine Dinova:	I'll be tier'ing down, if LL doesn't remove the death penalty for Premium soon.
[17:12]	Arawn Spitteler:	Is there an actual death penalty? I think she may have made some errors in her distress.
[17:12]	Morgaine Dinova:	Lots of people have been executed for not paying the rent.
[17:13]	Simon Linden:	I brought that up with the business guy who covers premium accounts ... he agreed it should be fixed. Don't know of concrete plans yet, though
[17:13]	Andrew Linden:	I think by "death penalty" Morgaine is refering to the clearing of inventory?
[17:13]	Morgaine Dinova:	That's cool Simon!
[17:13]	Arawn Spitteler:	That would b crimial
[17:13]	Rex Cronon:	not paying rent= capital punishment. lol
[17:13]	Arawn Spitteler:	In Russia, they'd only stopper your stove
[17:13]	Morgaine Dinova:	Avatar death. The landlord shooting you for not paying your rent.
[17:13]	Johan Laurasia:	reminds me of that will ferrel video with the little girl
[17:13]	LSL Scientist:	yes, losing inventory is the worst part, account you might get back, but inv is lost forever
[17:14]	Johan Laurasia:	hard to believe they'd wipe your inventory
[17:14]	Morgaine Dinova:	Very good news Simon. Premium really must not be worse than Basic, in any respect whatsoever. There's no need either :-)
[17:14]	Kaluura Boa:	And it's really unfair that free account are better treated than us
[17:15]	Arawn Spitteler:	Us is a free account, but looks out for the Premies, 'cause they pay the rent
[17:15]	Simon Linden:	Yeah, there should be a better way to deal with accounts that are behind on payments
[17:15]	Andrew Linden:	I thought that had been fixed already, but not because I heard verification -- but because everyone was saying "d'oh" about six months ago
[17:15]	Andrew Linden:	I has assumed that they had fixed it
[17:15]	Arawn Spitteler:	It might be, that the programmer who dealt with the web issues, wasn't an experienced Banker
[17:16]	xstorm Radek:	ok brb afk from pc
[17:17]	Arawn Spitteler:	Anyone have a time line in Script Limits? There's a discussion on NCI Scripters
[17:18]	Morgaine Dinova:	Need to be able to pay rent from L$ too. It's merely some automation to use an existing US$ conversion service after all, nothing new, just saves some hassle.
[17:18]	Andrew Linden:	Arawn, you mean a timeline for when script-limits will be changed or deployed?
[17:18]	Andrew Linden:	I thought some script limits were in place in server-1.34
[17:18]	Rex Cronon:	this script limits thing is a very hot subject on the blogs:)
[17:19]	Andrew Linden:	Kelly Linden might know.
[17:19]	Johan Laurasia:	I think they are
[17:19]	Johan Laurasia:	since 1.34.1
[17:20]	Andrew Linden:	Kelly is AFK. Not available for comment.
[17:20]	Rex Cronon:	sadly it seems we will have script limits before we will have the tools to allow us to optimize our scripts:(
[17:21]	Simon Linden:	There's some code in 1.34.1 but limits aren't enforced. It's just tracking and measuring now
[17:21]	Johan Laurasia:	I think script limits wont be such a huge issue honestly, it'll just force ppl to script more efficient code. If LL would step up the link functions it would be easier on coders to get new things done.
[17:21]	Arawn Spitteler:	It would be good, if we could audit the scripts we're wearing, both for development and for anti griefing
[17:22]	Andrew Linden:	ah that makes sense -- it explains both why I've seen the code in 1.34 and why people haven't witnessed them in action yet.
[17:22]	LSL Scientist:	some things just cant be more efficient with current LSL, we need better ways to do stuff
[17:22]	Simon Linden:	I think the plan is to add the link functions first, so there are ways to make better scripts before setting limits
[17:22]	Simon Linden:	Also, I don't think anyone knows what the proper limits should be yet
[17:23]	Johan Laurasia:	right, Babbage was taking about that, figuring out where the sweet spot is between limits and not breaking stuff
[17:23]	Kaluura Boa:	Not TOO MUCH stuff...
[17:23]	Arawn Spitteler:	If you find you nee limits, there's no between left
[17:24]	Simon Linden:	Yeah, we'd like to only break the annoying stuff that's really slowing down a region, but that's a tough target :)
[17:24]	Arawn Spitteler's tug-boat goes	bump; we look to see how far away the dock is
[17:25]	Rex Cronon:	question is. what is going to happenewith all the "stuff" that people have bought?
[17:25]	Johan Laurasia:	it'll break
[17:25]	Arawn Spitteler:	Will it be possible to walk about with deactivated script?
[17:25]	Johan Laurasia:	I'm sure it will
[17:26]	Kaluura Boa:	Deactivated or not, scripts need memory... I don't think so
[17:26]	Arawn Spitteler:	My borked TP wasn't the one people paid money for, but a quick glance at SVC-2931 should recall some history
[17:26]	Johan Laurasia:	why one would want to though is beyond me
[17:26]	Arawn Spitteler:	I recall Tools allows us to turn off scripts, in an object
[17:26]	Simon Linden:	Regular walking doesn't need any scripts. Animation over-rides might not kick in, so you'd have the default animations
[17:27]	Morgaine Dinova:	Simple solution: if the creator of a non-mod script is not responsive to requests to fix breakage because of new limits, or is no longer in-world, make the script full-perm so it can be fixed.
[17:27]	Rex Cronon:	it could get quite funny. imagine jumping on a sex bed and suddenly u a error: "sorry but your sex takes too much memory. buy something better":)
[17:27]	Andrew Linden:	babbage says llSetLinkedPrimitiveParams() won't have any script delay.
[17:27]	Morgaine Dinova:	In fact, scripts by everyone who leaves SL should be open sourced.
[17:27]	Morgaine Dinova:	Automatically
[17:27]	Simon Linden:	I think there's a split between scripts for a parcel and per-avatar, so you should be able to have HUDs and such workable all over, as long as they're under the unknown limit
[17:27]	Rex Cronon:	wow. morgaine. slwo down a little
[17:27]	Morgaine Dinova:	Rex: no
[17:28]	Simon Linden:	Well, I doubt that's going to happen anytime soon, so we don't need to get deep into it...
[17:28]	Morgaine Dinova:	Leaving SL implies that all scripts you've left behind are unmaintained.
[17:28]	Johan Laurasia:	why not just go out and buy a newer, updated item Morgaine?
[17:28]	Rex Cronon:	the creator is not responsible for what ll does
[17:28]	Arawn Spitteler:	I don't know how to deal, when a scripter declines to handle service complaints from five year old products, but they might want to redevelop in their next world
[17:29]	Ardy Lay	imagines smear campaigns to eliminate creators of popular products so those products will get "freed".
[17:29]	xstorm Radek:	i was reading about a script capping to 1 mb ?
[17:29]	Morgaine Dinova:	Johan: because I don't have money for repeat purchases of the same thing. Want to give me some cash, since you're insensitive to that?
[17:29]	xstorm Radek:	will that be all the scripts added up in a sim ?
[17:30]	Simon Linden:	I don't know of any specific limits yet ... at this stage, I don't think any numbers are carved in stone. They'll be adjusted as we learn more
[17:30]	Rex Cronon:	if in rl your local goverment decides to ban all gasoline cars, do u think that the monies u paid for th car is going to be refunded by the car maker. lol
[17:30]	Arawn Spitteler:	Tht would be just 16 LSLs to an avatar in one sim? Hari could do that easy
[17:30]	office hours	is half over
[17:30]	Johan Laurasia:	well, I don't see LL guaranteeing stuff will last forever either.... If money's an issue, then I can't speak on that, most stuff in SL is pretty cheap
[17:30]	xstorm Radek:	ok thank you if it happens it may make problems with venders
[17:31]	LSL Scientist:	if morgaines suggestion goest trough ill go paranoid, and copy paste everything from notepad when i want to use it, would leave empty inv
[17:31]	xstorm Radek:	lol
[17:31]	xstorm Radek:	ha ha ha ha ha ha
[17:31]	Arawn Spitteler:	Ah, what if a creator got reverted to Basic, and couldn't find the original script?
[17:32]	xstorm Radek:	Morgaine are you scaring people yet again lol
[17:32]	Johan Laurasia:	if you dont have the money, then don't buy it, but dont complain that everything should be free because you can't afford it.
[17:32]	Morgaine Dinova:	Johan: if you want to treat digital items as if they were physical property like in RL, then you need to be responsive to faulty merchandise just like in RL. A manufacturer can't simply ignore customers if his goods fail to work, at least in Europe.
[17:32]	Arawn Spitteler's so	fantastically wealthy, he has other people enjoy the luxuries of life on his behalf
[17:32]	Simon Linden:	Yeah, we're not about to open up and release abandoned items. I don't even think it's being considered, so let's move on
[17:32]	Johan Laurasia:	physical items wear out too, when my shoes have holes in the bottom, I go buy new ones
[17:32]	xstorm Radek:	i keep backup of close to all the scripts i ever had even the LL scripts from 2003 to now
[17:33]	Rex Cronon:	the car still works. is just that the goverment doesn't let u drive it on th road:)
[17:33]	Morgaine Dinova:	Simon: has it been considered, or is "We won't open up abandoned items" your own view?
[17:33]	Johan Laurasia:	I dont see where it's written that virtual goods come with a lifetime guarantee
[17:34]	Simon Linden:	I've never heard it being discussed
[17:34]	Arawn Spitteler:	Guaranteed for thet life of the product
[17:35]	Johan Laurasia:	Morgaine, perhaps you should consider building/scripting/selling to make Ls to spend in-world. That's what I do so I don't have to put RL money into SL
[17:35]	xstorm Radek:	oh crap i have half my inventory from 2003 to now and i know many of the items makers are no longer in SL
[17:35]	Morgaine Dinova:	Products in RL have a period during which customers have a guarantee of mechantability. I don't know what that period would be in VWs, but if you want to treat the goods like their were physical property, you need something similar.
[17:35]	xstorm Radek:	i will have a verry bad time trying to replace them at this stage of the game
[17:36]	Johan Laurasia:	well that would fall on the content creator, not LL
[17:36]	Kaluura Boa:	Hooo... An attack
[17:36]	xstorm Radek:	LL is the one that made some of them
[17:36]	Arawn Spitteler:	What does that guarantee do in the case of producer bankruptsy?
[17:36]	Bronson Blackadder:	cats and dogs living together... it'll be anarchy!!!
[17:36]	Morgaine Dinova:	Johan: Oh good to know that you're an SL manufacturer. Presumably you're a responsible one, who cares about merchantability of what you sell. Not a fly-by-night cowboy who doesn't care as long as you get you money.
[17:36]	Simon Linden:	So I have a quick survey relating to scripting ... how many people have Animation Overrides they often use?
[17:36]	Rex Cronon:	considering that thing in VR goe very that that period should be 1hour:)
[17:37]	Simon Linden:	... because they've always stuck me as hacky and some better script support could lessen the load there
[17:37]	xstorm Radek:	i try not to i have made them
[17:37]	Johan Laurasia:	I try to take care of my customers, yes, but if I died tomorrow, I'd have to stop maintaing
[17:37]	Morgaine Dinova:	Simon: I use an AO, without one the immersion is poor.
[17:37]	Andrew Linden:	Or better UI -- no scripts
[17:37]	Andrew Linden:	(for improved animation override)
[17:37]	xstorm Radek:	yes i made AO's and the snimations
[17:37]	Arawn Spitteler:	Better script support is something I'd like, before making much use of my AO
[17:37]	Beatrix Muggins:	I'm wearing an AO via my client
[17:37]	Rex Cronon	shouts: considering that things in VW go at a very fast rate that period should be of around one hour. that is like a few months in rl:)
[17:38]	Arawn Spitteler:	AOs should take the same input as our regualr animations
[17:38]	Fury Rosewood:	I use an AO
[17:38]	Morgaine Dinova:	I find it hard to believe that in all these years, the default duckwalk hasn't been improved.
[17:38]	xstorm Radek:	i love to see a UI be used and not a AO
[17:38]	LSL Scientist:	everybody use AO, but putting AO to client is not enough, it need to be scriptable to make it work with all special AV's
[17:38]	Fury Rosewood:	however honestly i find the amount of memory for them to be sometimes restraining
[17:38]	Beatrix Muggins:	any idea when the Release Client will incorporate the clientside AO?
[17:38]	Rex Cronon:	sorry . didn't mean to shout
[17:38]	Becky Pippen:	better AO support would be a great PR move too -- lots of people will love it
[17:38]	Simon Linden:	Right, probably just having a UI to set the animations for standard states would cover a lot of it
[17:38]	Rex Cronon:	i don't use ao
[17:38]	Kaluura Boa:	Better default anims wouldn't hurt either
[17:39]	xstorm Radek:	but one of the AO i make has pose balls in it for more then just walking
[17:39]	Arawn Spitteler:	Is Zhao still in world?
[17:39]	Beatrix Muggins:	yes
[17:39]	Fury Rosewood:	and switching some animations out can be irritating, but i would prefer some sort of not attached item, like something say integrated into the client
[17:39]	Beatrix Muggins:	the ZHAO II
[17:39]	Fury Rosewood:	emerald has one, and it did work well enough
[17:39]	Morgaine Dinova:	Well AOs should naturally be client-side. Anything else is, well, just plain silly.
[17:39]	Beatrix Muggins:	or is Zhao a person
[17:39]	Simon Linden:	yeah, I"ve heard talk of replacing that duck walk for a long time ... I don't know why it hasn't happened
[17:39]	Fury Rosewood:	i kinda like the duck walk...
[17:39]	Fury Rosewood:	c.c
[17:39]	xstorm Radek:	Zhao is the item
[17:39]	Fury Rosewood:	looks cute on a skunk
[17:39]	Johan Laurasia:	I agree that AO's should be incorp into the client
[17:39]	Fury Rosewood:	lol
[17:40]	Ardy Lay:	Simon, the default walk looks decent when played at 50% speed.
[17:40]	Simon Linden:	Or at least being able to have a few choices ... tough guy walk, duck walk, etc...
[17:40]	Beatrix Muggins:	I'm in emerald right now, and the AO is flawless, for me
[17:40]	Arawn Spitteler:	Someone was telling me, her horse was taking better input than the traditional Zhao
[17:40]	Kaluura Boa:	You'll remove my AO over my dead body
[17:40]	xstorm Radek:	no it do not
[17:40]	Beatrix Muggins:	maybe my standards are lax
[17:40]	xstorm Radek:	the defult looks like crap
[17:40]	Andrew Linden:	remember... when we ship an improved default walk there will be a short time where AO overriders that re-introduce it will be hot items on the market
[17:40]	xstorm Radek:	there is a bug with it
[17:40]	Simon Linden:	FWIW I have to leave early today ... gotta run in a few minutes
[17:40]	Andrew Linden:	make yours now so you're ready
[17:40]	Morgaine Dinova:	Haha
[17:41]	Rex Cronon:	we will be retro:)
[17:41]	Johan Laurasia:	not to mention that animators will complain that you're squeezing them out of the market
[17:41]	xstorm Radek:	but no one can do what my AO can
[17:41]	Arawn Spitteler:	Walks look okay on my 2004 system; Jesus Christ was born in February, of that year
[17:41]	Johan Laurasia:	I thought the whole point behind cheesy defaults was so that you could go out and buy better stuff
[17:41]	Johan Laurasia:	or get freebie stuff that's better
[17:41]	Simon Linden:	That might be why it never got updated ... too much resistance. I really don't know....
[17:42]	xstorm Radek:	freebie is there such a thing after pink linden got in ?
[17:42]	Arawn Spitteler:	Announce a contest for up to date animations
[17:42]	Simon Linden:	Anyway, I'm getting dragged off, so here's an early 'thanks for coming, see you next time'
[17:42]	Andrew Linden:	thanks Simon
[17:42]	Johan Laurasia:	Merry Christmas Simon
[17:42]	Becky Pippen:	Bye Simon
[17:42]	Rex Cronon:	tc simon
[17:42]	Simon Linden:	Bye all
[17:42]	Fury Rosewood:	take care simon
[17:42]	Arawn Spitteler:	Tuesday?
[17:42]	Morgaine Dinova:	Andrew: is there an actual project for client-side AOs in existence in LL, or you merely looked at Emerald? Because really client-side AO should be integrated into client-side scripting in something like Python. A standalone client-side AO would likely be less flexible than a current AO, just because currently it's scripted and hence potentially "clever".
[17:42]	Simon Linden:	I should be here
[17:42]	Simon Linden:	bye
[17:42]	xstorm Radek:	no thank you so very much for your time :-)
[17:42]	Ardy Lay:	Arawn, check the blog archives. There WAS a contest for replacement default animations.
[17:43]	Morgaine Dinova:	Cyu Simon, TC , and Merry Xmas :-)
[17:43]	Arawn Spitteler:	Any response?
[17:43]	Johan Laurasia:	the newbie shuffle
[17:43]	Fury Rosewood:	the male default walk looks better than the female, but i think the female one makes me giggle
[17:44]	Johan Laurasia:	well, like I said, i thought they were purposely left fairly cheesy so people would buy better ones
[17:44]	Arawn Spitteler:	Do our systems even know our sexes?
[17:44]	Johan Laurasia:	nope Arawn
[17:44]	Fury Rosewood:	yes
[17:44]	Morgaine Dinova:	xstorm: that's an idea, when the duck walk finally disappears, slow it down by half and market it as Zombie Walk.
[17:44]	Andrew Linden:	I haven't looked at Emerald, however I agree -- it should be integrated into the UI
[17:44]	xstorm Radek:	i think i know you Fury hhhmmmm
[17:44]	Andrew Linden:	there was some design once... Richard Linden has ideas he's wanted to implement
[17:44]	Fury Rosewood:	c.c
[17:45]	Fury Rosewood:	im in lusk
[17:45]	Beatrix Muggins:	and the vertical orientation of chat tabs, or at least a drag and drop movement of them
[17:45]	Andrew Linden:	however he's just been too busy
[17:45]	Fury Rosewood:	or uh o.O
[17:45]	Johan Laurasia:	someone brought that up in the forums once, all hell broke loose
[17:45]	Andrew Linden:	I think the bad walk animation is an example of a project that has just been dropped over the years for various reaons
[17:45]	Johan Laurasia:	some people dont consider themselves male or female
[17:46]	Ardy Lay:	Avater appearence has radio buttons for gender. Want a 3rd button?
[17:46]	Morgaine Dinova:	Well Which Linden is a bamboo ... gender seems somehow superfluous :P
[17:46]	Beatrix Muggins:	lol
[17:46]	LSL Scientist:	"robot"
[17:46]	Ardy Lay	can't type
[17:46]	Johan Laurasia:	'other'
[17:46]	Rex Cronon:	user defined gender?
[17:47]	Arawn Spitteler:	Male, Female, Bamboo, Quadraped?
[17:47]	Andrew Linden:	The gender is a bit in the "body shape" asset you happen to be wearing
[17:47]	Andrew Linden:	the gender is not stored in the database for your account
[17:47]	Johan Laurasia:	yeah, and too bad scripters cannot access that bit.
[17:47]	Rex Cronon:	u should have used at least a byte:)
[17:47]	Andrew Linden:	however, we only have two genders... male and female
[17:47]	xstorm Radek:	this AO has pose balls i made
[17:47]	Johan Laurasia:	lol
[17:47]	Morgaine Dinova:	Could make Gender a slider between Male and Female ... that captures most possibilities.
[17:47]	Andrew Linden:	the two values determin which sliders you have available in appearance editing
[17:48]	Johan Laurasia:	you'd think that andrew, but go into the forums and say that, watch what happens
[17:48]	Arawn Spitteler:	We haven't a 30% Femaile walk
[17:48]	Andrew Linden:	sorry Johan, say "what"?
[17:48]	Johan Laurasia:	you said there are only 2 genders, and I agree, but when it comes up in the forums, all hell breaks loose
[17:48]	Ardy Lay:	Go to the forums and SAY ANYTHING and you get pounced on. Screw that mess.
[17:49]	Arawn Spitteler:	I certainly don't agree, that we've only two sexes. I've a tiny tree, that should be vegetable, but that sex isn't available
[17:49]	Morgaine Dinova:	Oh, I know where the duck walk would fit perfectly --- a penguin av!
[17:49]	Johan Laurasia:	apparently there are some in-betweeners who complain thatsimply 'male' or 'female' dont apply to them
[17:49]	Fury Rosewood:	Yea the forums are a worthless mess
[17:49]	Fury Rosewood:	everyone wants to say what they think is true, so its kinda pointless going there
[17:49]	Andrew Linden:	Oh, I was just stating that the SL system only supports two genders: 0 = female, 1 = male. The bit has two values.
[17:49]	xstorm Radek:	the ao not only can do over 200 animations but has move lock
[17:49]	Beatrix Muggins:	but that still begs the question, why the inworld, sim resource using AOs, when we could have a configurable one clientside
[17:49]	Rex Cronon:	i think we need a drop down box that allows u to first choose your species, next should be the gender. u should also take into possiblities mulitple genders:)
[17:49]	Johan Laurasia:	yeah, what would be nice is a way to read that state via scripting
[17:50]	xstorm Radek:	will the UI have a way of putting our own animations in it ?
[17:50]	Andrew Linden:	heh, the simulator doesn't know your gender
[17:50]	Morgaine Dinova:	Fury: that's what Web-2.0 / social networking is all about --- everyone has their say, and they all "right".
[17:50]	install the	ParserFunctions extension for MediaWiki
[17:50]	Rex Cronon:	take into consideration*
[17:50]	Morgaine Dinova:	they're all*
[17:50]	You decline	Perri's XanadU, Rainbow Wood (127, 70, 2501) from A group member named Nydia Tungsten.
[17:50]	Andrew Linden:	xstorm, an improved animation UI is not in the works, as far as I know -- but it is an idea we've wanted to do since forever
[17:50]	Arawn Spitteler:	We should also have preadolescent and menopausal genders, since not everyone plays a horny 17 year old
[17:51]	xstorm Radek:	well if you do it will open up a all new market
[17:51]	Johan Laurasia:	so you're saying gender is strictly client side then?
[17:51]	Johan Laurasia:	for avatar shape basics
[17:51]	xstorm Radek:	with all new content makers
[17:51]	Andrew Linden:	correct Johan
[17:51]	Arawn Spitteler:	It's a bit in a wearable asset, that should be broader
[17:52]	xstorm Radek:	it will give SL a boost it needs
[17:52]	Andrew Linden:	sorta... the database does remember the "bodyparts" you war wearing (shape, clothes)
[17:52]	Morgaine Dinova:	Rex is right. Make one option Human, and if that checkbox is on, then Male, Female, Other radio boxes do something, otherwise they're just informational.
[17:52]	Andrew Linden:	so it would theoretically be possible to query the db for the assets, download them, and figure out the current gender of an account
[17:52]	Andrew Linden:	however the simulator does not store your gender in its memory
[17:53]	Andrew Linden:	so an llGetGender() call would have to ask the memory for the answer
[17:53]	Johan Laurasia:	that's a long way to get there, when I'm in a sim though, the sim know's I'm there. Wouldn't you be able to add a gender flag there?
[17:53]	Andrew Linden:	yes, possible in theory
[17:53]	Morgaine Dinova:	Don't do that. Think "interop".
[17:53]	Andrew Linden:	but the simulator does not know the answer ATM
[17:53]	Johan Laurasia:	lol, llGetGender()...
[17:53]	Johan Laurasia:	don't forget llSetGender() too :)
[17:54]	Rex Cronon:	can w also have llsetgender(integer genderId)
[17:54]	Johan Laurasia:	yeah
[17:54]	Rex Cronon:	:)
[17:54]	Morgaine Dinova:	You must not add data from the Authentication Service to the region service.
[17:54]	Arawn Spitteler:	llSetGender(BENT)
[17:54]	Johan Laurasia:	heh
[17:54]	Fury Rosewood:	c.c
[17:54]	Fury Rosewood:	lol
[17:54]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah... not going to happen soon.
[17:54]	Johan Laurasia:	or llCreateGender([list] gender) and have a bunch of flags that can be set
[17:55]	Johan Laurasia:	yeah, didnt think so
[17:55]	You decline	Angels Beach, Cape Suzette (82, 27, 24) from A group member named Lsai Aeon.
[17:55]	Morgaine Dinova:	Keep agent data and region data separate. Interop isn't happening right now, but it's not far away, and then agent and region stuff must be divorced.
[17:55]	Arawn Spitteler:	Ever see Michael?
[17:55]	Rex Cronon:	maybe one day, sometime in the close future we could bring our creatures from spore:)
[17:55]	Andrew Linden:	haha, llCreateGender()
[17:55]	office hours	is almost over
[17:55]	Johan Laurasia:	dont need it personally, but it would be quite useful
[17:56]	Johan Laurasia:	furniture that poses avatars based on gender, marketing, etc.
[17:56]	Morgaine Dinova:	All of these things will apply to the future agent services though --- all these are good ideas for agent attributes.
[17:56]	Andrew Linden:	oh hrm... that would be a cool feature
[17:56]	Andrew Linden:	I hadn't thought of that
[17:56]	Johan Laurasia:	ype
[17:56]	Johan Laurasia:	yep*
[17:57]	You decline	Angels Beach, Cape Suzette (82, 27, 24) from A group member named Nydia Tungsten.
[17:57]	LSL Scientist:	llCreateGender([CARTOON,ROBOT,FAG]);
[17:57]	Andrew Linden:	if the avatar gender were available via agent services, then the simulator could just query the service and remember it
[17:57]	Johan Laurasia:	one itsy bitsy little bit
[17:58]	Arawn Spitteler:	The Agent Service would have to be sensitive to your momentary whim, so you could edit appearence
[17:58]	Morgaine Dinova:	Andrew: no need, since scripts and clients can simply query the agent service. Less load on the sim too, it's doing too much already.
[17:58]	Andrew Linden:	Morgaine, good point. The LSL scripts would be able to query.
[17:59]	Andrew Linden:	Less complicated LSL API really, that would be the clincher for doing it that way.
[17:59]	Ardy Lay:	Could a client based AO query?
[17:59]	Andrew Linden:	In the "glorious future" Ardy, Yes.
[18:00]	xstorm Radek:	i have to go
[18:00]	xstorm Radek:	thanks :-)
[18:00]	Johan Laurasia:	yeah, well, for me I wish physics were better... I understand the limitations of hardware and such.. but that's what would really blow the doors off in SL, better physics
[18:00]	Arawn Spitteler:	Is something going Ting, or is that meatside for me?
[18:00]	Morgaine Dinova:	It's one of the things that OGP will bring, service decoupling. Although you'll still have the option to proxy everything through the sim as now, a better deployment would be to allow queries to the various services to go direct, which the VWRAP mechanism will allow. It's a region provider choice.
[18:00]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, it is time for me to go too. It has been a long day.
[18:00]	Thank you	for coming to Linden office hours
[18:00]	Morgaine Dinova:	I heard the tings too
[18:00]	Becky Pippen:	Thanks Andrew
[18:00]	xstorm Radek:	laterz
[18:00]	Rex Cronon:	tc
[18:01]	Rex Cronon:	tc andrew
[18:01]	Morgaine Dinova:	Thanks Andrew, Merry Xmas if don't see you before :-)
[18:01]	Fury Rosewood:	take care andrew
[18:01]	Beatrix Muggins:	thank you for the time
[18:01]	Andrew Linden:	Yes, thanks for coming. This was an interesting discussion at the end. My mind is kicking a lot of new ideas around.
[18:01]	Rex Cronon:	right. happy hollydays to everybody:)
[18:01]	Ardy Lay:	That was xstorm's pocket watch.
[18:01]	Beatrix Muggins:	can I have a bear?
[18:01]	Johan Laurasia:	cool... thanks for the office hr Andrew, have a nice Christmas and all
[18:01]	Ardy Lay:	Good bye Andrew
[18:01]	Andrew Linden:	I don't usually ponder the agent services stuff, but it looks promising... hopefully we can start delivering it.

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