User:Babbage Linden/Office Hours/2008 09 03

From Second Life Wiki
< User:Babbage Linden/Office Hours
Revision as of 10:21, 3 September 2008 by Nock Forager (talk | contribs) (User:Babbage Linden/Office Hours/2008 08 03 moved to User:Babbage Linden/Office Hours/2008 09 03: To fix wrong date)
(diff) ← Older revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)
Jump to navigation Jump to search
[8:01] Babbage Linden: hi nick
[8:01] Babbage Linden: hi becky
[8:01] Nock Forager: Hi Babbaage
[8:01] Babbage Linden: nock, sorry
[8:01] Nock Forager: NP, everybody misspelled at first. :)
[8:02] Babbage Linden: thanks for coming
[8:02] Nock Forager: hmm, acctually I'm not a good scripter. Here to listen some update infor about Mono...
[8:03] Babbage Linden: that's fine
[8:03] Nock Forager: Bugs differences bitween LSL2 and Mono.
[8:03] Babbage Linden: i'll wait a few minutes for people to turn up, then give an overview of where we are
[8:04] Fake Fitzgerald: hi
[8:04] Babbage Linden: hi fake
[8:04] Nock Forager: lol everybody fall
[8:04] Becky Pippen: wheeee
[8:04] Babbage Linden: it's possible to make it across if you're lucky
[8:04] Fake Fitzgerald: I didn't fall
[8:05] Babbage Linden: hi miya
[8:05] Creem Pye: thanks
[8:05] Miya Watanabe: hello
[8:05] Creem Pye: howdy
[8:06] Babbage Linden: hi creem
[8:06] Nock Forager: Hi
[8:06] Fake Fitzgerald: hi
[8:06] Babbage Linden: let's give people a couple more minutes, then i'll start
[8:06] Babbage Linden: i'll ping the Mono groups too
[8:08] Babbage Linden: so, here's where we are with 1.24
[8:09] Babbage Linden: we had some problems initially with a debug server build, which was causing problems with 1.24.1
[8:09] Babbage Linden: then 1.24.2 fixed a number of crash bugs with features other than mono
[8:09] Babbage Linden: and 1.24.3
[8:10] Babbage Linden: after looking at the crash bugs, the next priority was issues that affect both LSL and Mono scripts
[8:10] Babbage Linden: as these affect existing content
[8:11] Babbage Linden: 1.24.4 which we're rolling out now fixed a problem with LSL script scheduling that was causing state_exit events to run slowly
[8:11] Babbage Linden: as well as state changes
[8:11] Babbage Linden: with scripting running on the original scripting engine
[8:11] Creem Pye: ah, so there will no longer be a 22ms delay for state changes?
[8:11] Babbage Linden: as well as in some cases the order of timer events vs state_exit and state_entry events
[8:11] Babbage Linden: correct creem
[8:12] Babbage Linden: what was happening in 1.24.1-3 is that scripts were yielding when a state change was pending
[8:12] Babbage Linden: so, you could only do 1 state change per time slice and so per frame
[8:13] Babbage Linden: also, because scripts were yielding all the time when state changes were pending, that slowed down state entry a lot
[8:13] Babbage Linden: as a sim running at 45 hz has a frame time of 22ms, that made it look like state changes were taking longer
[8:13] Babbage Linden: they weren't, they were just being gated by the frame rate
[8:14] Babbage Linden: also, the event ordering was changing as previously state_exit and state_entry events were being run immediately
[8:14] Babbage Linden: in 1.23 and before
[8:14] Babbage Linden: when the script was yielding on state change pending, it gave a timer event the chance to sneak in before the state_entry/exit event
[8:15] Babbage Linden: 1.24.4 also fixes a problem with llEmail
[8:15] Babbage Linden: that caused email to not be delivered to a script under some circumstances
[8:16] Babbage Linden: and fixed a problem with prepending to a list having side effects
[8:16] Babbage Linden: we're now moving on to looking at problems which only affect Mono scripts
[8:16] Creem Pye: will scripts need to be reset to take advantage of these fixes?
[8:17] Babbage Linden: we'd really like to be able to get a good repro for
[8:17] Babbage Linden: which i think is actually a number of separate issues
[8:17] Babbage Linden: but we haven't been able to repro any of them yet
[8:18] Babbage Linden: we're currentlly looking at
[8:18] Babbage Linden: which has a good repro
[8:18] Babbage Linden: and then will probably tackle the other Mono specific bugs in
[8:18] Babbage Linden: if nothing else comes up in the meantime
[8:18] Babbage Linden: creem, no you don't need to reset scripts to see the fixes to the scheduler
[8:19] Babbage Linden: the changes are in the simulator code
[8:19] Babbage Linden: and will take effect on running scripts
[8:19] Creem Pye: hm the svc-2751 repro could use some llSleeop functions I think
[8:20] Creem Pye: sometimes chat arrives out of order, even within the same event
[8:20] Babbage Linden: yes, agreed
[8:20] Creem Pye: (but I guess if you had another object in the same sim listening, it should always receive messages in the correct order)
[8:20] Babbage Linden: moon metty tried it with llSleep(3) calls and still saw the problem
[8:21] Babbage Linden: and suggests there are other problems with scripts being reset
[8:21] Babbage Linden: so that's where we are now
[8:22] Babbage Linden: new crash bugs seem to have been fixed
[8:22] Babbage Linden: LSL2 is mostly working as it was
[8:22] Babbage Linden: and we're going to look at the Mono only issues next
[8:22] Babbage Linden: sound reasonable?
[8:22] Creem Pye: sure
[8:23] Creem Pye: I have a question - will the state change fixes in 1.24 affect the execution speed of on_rez at all?
[8:23] Creem Pye: oops 1.24.4
[8:23] Babbage Linden: no
[8:23] Becky Pippen: sounds like you've accomplished a lot of fixes already! Those reset issues are nasty.... hope they are easy to find and fix.
[8:23] Babbage Linden: are you seeing rez behave more slowly for scripts running on the original scripting engine creem?
[8:24] Babbage Linden: (Mono scripts rez more slowly as they do more work)
[8:24] Creem Pye: yeah, running slightly more slowly (~1 frame), and also using up slightly more script time than LSL2
[8:25] Babbage Linden: hi zena
[8:25] Creem Pye: the application I was looking at was scripted bullets, and they "initialize" on rez to become enabled. And with their speed, the execution speed of on_rez affects the minimum range
[8:25] Zena Juran: hiyas everyone :-)
[8:25] Babbage Linden: the on_rez handler should run fine
[8:26] Creem Pye: I'm using llSetName() in that function, so maybe the UTF16 being used in Mon ois causing the slight slowdown
[8:26] Babbage Linden: but Mono has to check a digital signature when it first rezes an assembly which takes longer
[8:26] Creem Pye: er llSetObjectName
[8:26] Babbage Linden: but with bullets you are probably rezzing the same script repeatedly, so should only see that hit the first time
[8:26] Babbage Linden: Mono also has to do more set up of objects than LSL
[8:27] Creem Pye: ah I see
[8:27] Babbage Linden: so rezzing can take slightly longer
[8:27] Becky Pippen: are there any tricks to minimize that setup time?
[8:27] Babbage Linden: make sure you do as much script sharing as possible
[8:28] Babbage Linden: it minimises the time the simulator spends checking signatures
[8:28] Babbage Linden: and saves memory too
[8:28] Babbage Linden: so, if you have a display with lots of XYText scripts for example
[8:28] Babbage Linden: copy the same compiled script in to the object many times
[8:29] Babbage Linden: instead of using recompile scripts in selection
[8:29] Creem Pye: in terestsing
[8:29] Babbage Linden: which will create a new XYText assembly for each script
[8:29] Nock Forager: hmhm
[8:29] Babbage Linden: if everyone takes copies of the same script when they use popular scripts
[8:30] Babbage Linden: sharing will happen between objects too
[8:30] Creem Pye: btw since it seems that scripts in an avatar's inventory remember if they were compiled as LSL2 or Mono, it might be nice to have a UI option in the script editor, when the script is in avatar inventory
[8:30] Creem Pye: (the same "Mono" checkbox, I guess)
[8:31] Babbage Linden: that's tricky, as the simulator populates the checkbox by examining the bytecode
[8:31] Babbage Linden: the dataserver doesn't know if a script in your inventory is mono or lsl
[8:32] Babbage Linden: we could extend the database to store that information
[8:32] Creem Pye: but the script in your inventory has its bytecode attached?
[8:32] Babbage Linden: but it would be considerably more work
[8:33] Babbage Linden: also, knowing whether nested objects contain mono scripts is even harder
[8:33] Babbage Linden: so showing a mono checkbox for objects is really hard
[8:33] Babbage Linden: you would have to recurse through the object checking the information for all scripts
[8:34] Becky Pippen: makes sense
[8:34] Babbage Linden: so, it would be nice to have
[8:34] Creem Pye: hm yeah, nested objects also often don't reflect the true permissions
[8:34] Babbage Linden: but a lot of work
[8:34] Babbage Linden: hi tegg
[8:34] Tegg Bode: Hi All
[8:35] Creem Pye: hello
[8:35] Babbage Linden: any other questions?
[8:35] Nock Forager: Hi Tegg, Imaze, Keimar
[8:35] Babbage Linden: how have peoples experiences with mono been?
[8:35] Babbage Linden: hi imaze
[8:35] Keimar Kuhn: Hi
[8:35] Imaze Rhiano: hi
[8:35] Creem Pye: very smooth sailing so far. my only annoyance was that batch-converting scripts would enable scripts that were disabled
[8:36] Babbage Linden: ah, interesting
[8:36] Babbage Linden: could you file that as a bug please?
[8:36] Creem Pye: sure
[8:36] Babbage Linden: if it's not already in jira
[8:36] Babbage Linden: i haven't seen that yet
[8:37] Creem Pye: sure thing
[8:37] Babbage Linden: hi gabriel
[8:37] Gabriel Linden: hiya
[8:37] Gabriel Linden: hows it going?
[8:38] Imaze Rhiano: there has been also some negetive noise about Mono in scripter groups
[8:38] Imaze Rhiano: saying that mono is crashing sim, consuming more processor time, etc...
[8:39] Babbage Linden: i'm not aware of any mono crash bugs at this point
[8:39] Babbage Linden: i'd be interested in seeing mono using more processor time too
[8:39] Gabriel Linden: yeah
[8:39] Babbage Linden: it may use slightly more when scripts are doing nothing
[8:39] Babbage Linden: as mono scripts check whether they need to migrate when they're run
[8:40] Imaze Rhiano: I tried to ask from them what they are talking about - but no one didn't provide list of crash bugs or examples
[8:40] Tegg Bode: I am getting a lot more crashing this week on both RC and 1.20, and not using mono scripts yet :)
[8:40] Babbage Linden: there have been problems with the web services this week
[8:40] Babbage Linden: that have caused concurrency drops
[8:40] Creem Pye: heavy text processing could be slower with mono, right?
[8:41] Babbage Linden: but we're seeing a pretty low crash rate with
[8:41] Creem Pye: like llList2CSV(llCSV2List()) of something really long
[8:41] Gabriel Linden: so these might be coincidence, as many people are thinking about mono atm
[8:41] Babbage Linden: mono has to convert strings to utf-8 when passing them to library calls implemented in C++
[8:42] Babbage Linden: that could take longer
[8:42] Babbage Linden: which is the common case
[8:42] Babbage Linden: but in generally Marshalling data from Mono to C++ is very fast
[8:42] Imaze Rhiano: what about those reports about using more cpu time? could it be that all SIM monitor tools are not yet optimized for Mono?
[8:43] Babbage Linden: some of the library calls have been reimplemented in managed code and should run much faster there
[8:43] Babbage Linden: lists are now implemented as ArrayLists for Mono scripts
[8:43] Babbage Linden: so indexing in to them should be constant time instead of requiring a search
[8:43] Babbage Linden: for example
[8:44] Babbage Linden: i'd like to see examples where running Mono scripts use more time than LSL"
[8:44] Babbage Linden: i haven't seen any examples yet
[8:44] Gabriel Linden: its very unlikely you'd see a huge jump in cpu time imho
[8:44] Babbage Linden: just idle scripts using up slightly more time
[8:45] Creem Pye: maybe the performance hit adds up if there are thousands of idle scripts in a sim
[8:45] Christos Atlantis: does that idle time affect the sim, if there are alot of idle scripts , like in a furniture store that has poseballs in almost every piece
[8:45] Bartlee Arai: It would be nice if you had a suite where you could do compartive analysis of mono to lsl and track local maxima
[8:46] Babbage Linden: imaze, most of those are now fixed in 1.24.4
[8:46] Babbage Linden: see the mono meta issue in jira for the status
[8:46] Bartlee Arai: comparative*
[8:46] Imaze Rhiano: ok - that was list I received last night
[8:46] Imaze Rhiano: so - it was bit outdated info then
[8:46] Babbage Linden: creem, long term, idle scripts shouldn't consume any CPU time
[8:47] Jam Meili: do thousand idle scripts contribute then more to sim lag then before?
[8:47] Babbage Linden: they should be moved to a non-running scripts list
[8:47] Babbage Linden: and only become runnable when they have pending events
[8:47] Babbage Linden: we have plans to address that
[8:47] Babbage Linden: but it may not be for a while
[8:48] Babbage Linden: in the meantime, i doubt the extra work mono scripts do would have a noticable effect
[8:48] Babbage Linden: even with 1000s of them in a sim
[8:49] Christos Atlantis: I heard mono scripts taste like chicken
[8:49] Christos Atlantis: to many rumours
[8:49] Babbage Linden: yes, agreed
[8:50] Babbage Linden: mono was the biggest change in 1.24
[8:50] Nock Forager: yes, many rumours :)
[8:50] Christos Atlantis: most are saying we should not recomplie
[8:50] Babbage Linden: so is being cited as the cause of many things
[8:50] Bartlee Arai: How long before Mono is where you think it needs to be, ball park?
[8:50] Babbage Linden: but mostly, if you're not running mono scripts, your problem is unlikely to be mono
[8:50] Babbage Linden: and for most people, most of the time, mono scripts will work fine
[8:51] Bartlee Arai: the good old 90 10
[8:51] Jam Meili: why it seems mono affects also old scripts? is that mono-related or just bugs that happened in modified servercode?
[8:51] Christos Atlantis: one small thing I did notice, is that the speed of the scripts is a bit faster when running a swarm script, it made the pet move faster
[8:51] Gabriel Linden: we need good reproducable cases if issues are found, if everyone avoids recompilation we wont get them
[8:52] Babbage Linden: we left the original scripting engine alone as much as possible
[8:52] Babbage Linden: but we needed to make a few changes to allow mono to run alongside it
[8:52] Babbage Linden: the state change problems are a good example
[8:52] Babbage Linden: the old scripting engine interpretted 1 instruction at a time
[8:53] Babbage Linden: Mono executes small pieces of code at once
[8:53] Babbage Linden: so we had to change the script scheduling code to cope with both engines
[8:53] Christos Atlantis: one more dumb question, if I am the owner of a script and recompile it, will all others using my script have a there items recompiled also?
[8:53] Babbage Linden: and managed to subtly change script execution behaviour in the process
[8:54] Babbage Linden: christos, no
[8:54] Babbage Linden: only the copy you recompile
[8:54] Jam Meili: ok, so that "eps" in the statistics is referred to that pieces of code that run at once? or how should we interpret that?
[8:54] Babbage Linden: it's like saving a script to produce a new script
[8:54] Jam Meili: are that library calls in c# or something?
[8:54] Christos Atlantis: so we have to recompile every single script in our stores?
[8:54] Babbage Linden: other objects still reference the old bytecode asset and so don't change
[8:55] Babbage Linden: christos, if you want to create new versions of all of them yes
[8:55] Babbage Linden: if they share scripts, the better way is to recompile 1
[8:55] Babbage Linden: then copy the new scripts in to the others
[8:55] Babbage Linden: to get more bytecode sharing
[8:55] Babbage Linden: you'll also want to test all the objects to make sure they work after conversion too
[8:56] Christos Atlantis: I have 7000 pieces of furniture in 5 stores, that is a very big task
[8:56] Babbage Linden: christos, agreed
[8:56] Creem Pye: ko Babbage, I've created a Jira item for the batch script conversion bug: SVC-2987
[8:56] Babbage Linden: you need to decide whether converting the scripts inside makes sense
[8:56] Babbage Linden: thanks creem
[8:57] Babbage Linden: jam, the eps change was due to Mono running small pieces of code at once
[8:57] Babbage Linden: we have no way of counting instructions with Mono easily
[8:57] Christos Atlantis: ok, so if I do not convert, will the furniture ie (pose balls) stop working
[8:57] Jam Meili: each recompile creates a new c# assembly, so i guess it uses also more memory if we compile same scripts in each prims over and over, is that right?
[8:57] Babbage Linden: so, instead we count how many events the script it executing
[8:58] Babbage Linden: which can be compared between Mono scripts and scripts running on the original scripting engine (OSE from now on)
[8:58] Babbage Linden: christos, if you don't convert your scripts they will continue to run as before
[8:59] Christos Atlantis: ok, ty those where my main concerns, I can now make logical choices
[8:59] Babbage Linden: jam, if you keep compiling scripts over and over
[8:59] Babbage Linden: eventually Mono unloads them if they're not being referenced by a script
[9:00] Babbage Linden: so, you don't need to worry about that
[9:00] Babbage Linden: but, you should try to have as many objects reference each assembly as possible
[9:00] Babbage Linden: to minimise the numbers of assemblies that mono needs to keep around
[9:00] Jam Meili: hum i said it maybe wrong. i mean if i use the same script like in hudred prims and isntead of copying one compiled in all, if i would create a script in each and recompile the source, it would use like hundred times more memory?
[9:00] Babbage Linden: it doesn't know that scripts are the same just because they have the same source
[9:01] Babbage Linden: but if you drag compiled scripts in to objects, it knows that they are sharing
[9:01] Jam Meili: so we could tune our scripts in that way, what wasnt possible in the old engine?
[9:01] Babbage Linden: and only needs to keep 1 assembly in memory
[9:01] Creem Pye: it would be nice if the scripts had a checksum on the bytecode to check if they're identical
[9:01] Babbage Linden: the OSE didn't do any sharing
[9:01] Becky Pippen: Is OSE the new term for the LSL VM back end? It's the term that replaces awkward names like LS2VM, or LSL-LSO, or LSL2LSOVM... ?
[9:01] Babbage Linden: so, if you had 1000 bullets flying around
[9:01] Babbage Linden: each would use 16K
[9:02] Babbage Linden: with Mono, they might use 1K shared between them
[9:02] Babbage Linden: if all the guns contained copies of the same compiled script
[9:02] Christos Atlantis: will mono allow for you to implement use of other scripting and programing choices in SL?
[9:02] Creem Pye: creating the UUID of a script based on its sha-160 checksum would be nice =)
[9:02] Babbage Linden: christos, yest
[9:02] Christos Atlantis: :)
[9:02] Jam Meili: ok, thats great and hopefully will make combat sims and such to work better. is there another mono-related impriovement we could use to tune the usage of resources on a sim?
[9:02] Babbage Linden: it will allow us to enable other languages to script SL in the long term
[9:03] Babbage Linden: we have been careful to keep that option open while working on LSL on Mono
[9:03] Babbage Linden: but there is still more work to be done before we get there
[9:03] Christos Atlantis: well, my dream would be if I could see a game engine running inside SL™
[9:04] Babbage Linden: jam, bytecode sharing is the big thing that you can do to help Mono work effeciently
[9:04] Christos Atlantis: that would make the possibilities endless, mini games inside SL™ like a WoW
[9:04] Babbage Linden: Christos, SL is like a game engine in many ways
[9:05] Babbage Linden: lots of game engines have scripting engines and physics engines like SL
[9:05] Babbage Linden: games like dark life have been WoW like games in SL for a long time
[9:05] Christos Atlantis: yes, but it lacks the tools to make a good platform for developing game play
[9:05] Creem Pye: one thing you'd need to do is give estate managers much more control over what avatars can do
[9:05] Babbage Linden: there are some missing features, agreed
[9:06] Creem Pye: like forbid external attachments, and maybe force an avatar to have a certain style of appearance
[9:06] Babbage Linden: and many people are building things other than games
[9:06] Babbage Linden: so, we need to be careful to keep the platform neutral
[9:06] Christos Atlantis: like being able to control movement of props in non linear routes
[9:06] Babbage Linden: and make extensions where they are most useful to the most people
[9:06] Imaze Rhiano: if you want game development for SL - then you need also better controls for texture usage and model/prim usage for SIM owners
[9:06] Creem Pye: yep
[9:07] Imaze Rhiano: but that is bit offtopic
[9:07] Babbage Linden: we want to enable the widest array of applications possible in SL
[9:07] Babbage Linden: but we have limited resources
[9:07] Babbage Linden: so have to be smart about prioritizing improvements
[9:07] Creem Pye: megasims would be a nice start :D
[9:08] Christos Atlantis: I think the number 1 with residents is stability, so I will agree with you, you need to keep it stable for a long period and understand it before adding more features
[9:09] Babbage Linden: and most of the effort at linden is working on stability
[9:09] Jam Meili: hehe megasims would require changes in alot of parts of the server- and viewercode as also to expect owners would use server resources wisely, i guess we should not expect that any time soon, it's not very realistically right now
[9:09] Babbage Linden: which is why the scripting improvements are relatively slow in coming
[9:09] Christos Atlantis: and scaleability is also something I would think will help
[9:09] Babbage Linden: Mono was mostly me working on my own until near the end of the project
[9:09] Christos Atlantis: wow
[9:09] Christos Atlantis: great job!
[9:09] Bartlee Arai: Nice
[9:09] Nock Forager: yup!
[9:09] Babbage Linden: help! i'm being beaten with a car
[9:09] Creem Pye: yep, it's working quite smoothly so far =)
[9:10] Creem Pye: Babbage, do you expect the script memory limit wil be raised in teh future?
[9:10] Creem Pye: it would be nice if objects could consolidate their functions to a single script
[9:10] Babbage Linden: gabriel, si, daveh, vektor and periapse did a lot of work over the last year too
[9:10] Christos Atlantis: I think I have skid marks on my forehead
[9:10] Tegg Bode: I think games would hae a better chance of working if we could reduce our continual downloading of textures by perhaps having a basic default texture set for walls & floors on our hard drives
[9:10] Creem Pye: (I imagine that without link messages etc, efficiency could be greatly improved)
[9:10] Babbage Linden: creem pye, that is also on our wish list
[9:10] Babbage Linden: proper script libraries
[9:11] Babbage Linden: so you can share code between scripts
[9:11] Babbage Linden: and develop general purpose libraries that can be used by other scripts
[9:11] Babbage Linden: instead of having to send them link messages
[9:11] Babbage Linden: or chat messages
[9:11] Creem Pye: even functions like llLinkParticleSystem() to set a particle system centered around a link in the object would be nice
[9:12] Creem Pye: instead of having to have a separate script in a child prim for particles, commanded by the main script through link messages
[9:12] Christos Atlantis: I have tried 5 times in my life to learn programing this is the closest to heaven for me, and for that I would like to thank you guys and the people that help in groups, like Jam and co
[9:12] Babbage Linden: glad to hear it christos!
[9:12] Jam Meili: uuh .. thank you :)
[9:12] Babbage Linden: :-)
[9:13] Bartlee Arai: will the old scripting engine be replaced eventually once transparency has been acheived?
[9:13] Gabriel Linden: teaching the world to code
[9:13] Christos Atlantis: your both welcome, its amazing to see what can be done
[9:13] Jam Meili: and yes, mono is a great improvement even it has some beginning problems (that will sure be fixed)
[9:13] Babbage Linden: ok, we should wrap up there i think
[9:13] Babbage Linden: so gabriel and i can get back to fixing bugs
[9:14] Christos Atlantis: ty for for your time
[9:14] Babbage Linden: if you find any problems, please file them in to jira
[9:14] Imaze Rhiano: ya...and I need to go shopping new clothes... :P
[9:14] Babbage Linden: and we'll get on them as soon as possible
[9:14] Nock Forager: Thanks for very interestin meeting :)
[9:14] Babbage Linden: and if you see a repro for
[9:14] Babbage Linden: please let us know
[9:14] Christos Atlantis: nice seeing you all here
[9:14] Miya Watanabe: thank you for the meeting
[9:14] Babbage Linden: hopefully i'll see you all here next week
[9:14] Babbage Linden: thanks for coming
[9:14] Gabriel Linden: thanks, and cya'all around
[9:15] Tegg Bode: Thanks both of you for your efforts :)
[9:15] Creem Pye: thanks for your help!
[9:16] Imaze Rhiano: does Mono have metaobject in Jita?
[9:17] Babbage Linden: yes
[9:17] Nock Forager: ah Babbage, Don't you mind if I put this office hour log on your wiki profile page?
[9:17] Babbage Linden:
[9:17] Babbage Linden: is the beta jira
[9:17] Babbage Linden: nock, that's fine
[9:17] Babbage Linden: it will save me a job :-)
[9:17] Babbage Linden: i'll leave my bear here
[9:17] Nock Forager: :)
[9:17] Babbage Linden: to auto return in 15 minutes
[9:17] Christos Atlantis: :)
[9:18] Babbage Linden: there you go
[9:18] Babbage Linden: should be copyable
[9:18] Babbage Linden: or you can buy it for 0L$
[9:18] Christos Atlantis: AWSOME
[9:18] Christos Atlantis: ty :)
[9:18] Babbage Linden: ok, see you all next week
[9:19] Imaze Rhiano: bye
[9:19] Keimar Kuhn: bye